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Obōz Katabatic Wind Low + Montucky Cold Snacks (Gear & Beer!)

Today on THE ROCK FIGHT it's the pairings that matter most... GEAR & BEER!

Most hiking shoes are just overbuilt sneakers and leave you wanting either a pair of trail runners or an actual pair of leather boots. But what if you could truly blend those two worlds into an athletic looking shoe that is well made and built specifically for hiking?

Well then you'd have the Obōz Katabatic Wind Low.

And if you have the Obōz Katabatic Wind Low's and you also have the hosts of Gear & Beer one of whom only likes trail runners (Colin) and the other only likes big burly boots (Justin) what will they make of this shoe?

That's called a teaser folks, you need to listen to find out.

Then THE ROCK FIGHT's in house Cicerone (aka Justin) pairs the perfect post activity beverage to go with these shoes: Montucky Cold Snacks.

Because that's what you get here on Gear & Beer... the pairings that matter most!

Head to and sign up for News From the Front, Rock Fight's weekly newsletter!

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Episode Transcript

Colin (00:08):

Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head, and today we are back with another piece of gear and another beer. Yeah, that's right. It's your weekly dose of gear and beer. I'm Colin. True. I spent over 20 years working for brands and makers in the outdoor industry

Justin (00:29):

And I'm your favorite cohost. Justin Hausman, a journalist. Come on. Professional gear reviewer. Yeah, senior editor at Adventure

Colin (00:36):

Journal. You no data about

Justin (00:37):

That up. Excuse me, I'm reading my line. Senior editor at Adventure Journal and a certified beer expert. I'm sorry, what were you trying to say?

Colin (00:48):

I would like to know why you're the favorite. What data do you have to back that up?

Justin (00:52):

Just anecdotal

Colin (00:57):

Your kids told you. Is that what your kids told

Justin (00:58):

You? I don't let my kids listen to this filthy podcast. Kidding me? Actually, it is really funny when they do hear it in the car or something. Daddy, that's you. Why are you talking to that man? I don't have a good answer, a good point. I never have a good answer.

Colin (01:15):

Today we'll be reviewing a piece of gear the way you would expect gear to be reviewed on the rock fight. We don't talk about stack height, geometry or with underfoot. We talk. Do you want to say anything

Justin (01:24):

About that? Except when we do.

Colin (01:26):

Okay, there it is. We talk about the experience, our likes and our dislikes, and then we take that piece of gear. We parrot with the perfect post activity beverage because Justin, not only is he your favorite co-host, which he scientifically proved just a few minutes ago, he's also a Cerone, which is a certified beer expert. You can look it up. It's a real thing guys. We're not making it up. The bottom line is this is where you'll get the pairings that matter most. Gear and beer. And Justin, what gear and what beer are we reviewing today?

Justin (01:56):

Before I answer that, I just have to report with great sadness that over the last week I learned that there are two levels above me now on the Cone program that they have introduced. I knew that there was a master cone, which at the time there was maybe one of them in the country when I was doing mine. Now there's a lot more, but there's also an advanced cone and I didn't know about this. That was not an option that was available to me when I became just a Joe Blow cone apparently. So

Colin (02:26):

Hold on. I just went on rock fight Doco. We were hiring guys. I dunno if anybody heard rock We're hiring a new Cicero. We need a master cone. Master

Justin (02:33):

Level only. Yeah, I don't know what that entails, but I dunno. Probably more in depth know

Colin (02:39):

Of way for them to make more money really obscure.

Justin (02:40):

Weird. Well that for sure. Anyway. Alright, so today we're going to talk about the Obos, which is a shoe brand ca I think it's ca

Colin (02:51):

I'm going to go bad. Yeah, yeah.

Justin (02:52):

CBA Wind Low, which I guess they make a mid or a high. That's the gear. And then the beer is one that, I'm going to guess Uck Cold Snacks, which is kind of a ubiquitous, inexpensive lager that you will find at kind of posh restaurants these days.

Colin (03:10):

But before we get to talking about our shoes and beer or hiking shoes and beer, we got a couple of housekeeping items. First, whether this is your first time listening to the Rock fight or the hundredth, have you followed the show? Clicking Follow and leaving a rating and a written review, especially you Apple Podcast listeners, is the best way to support and grow this podcast. It doesn't have to be long. Just write gear and beer is awesome. Something very simple engagement's, what we're looking for. We would prefer positive.

Justin (03:35):

Yeah, we assume positive.

Colin (03:37):

So anyone who sends proof that they wrote a review on Apple Podcast from now until the end of June will get a gear in beer sticker. So send a screenshot to My Rock And Justin, what are some other ways that our listeners can reach out to us?

Justin (03:50):

Well, they can use an email. We really like it when you send your email to us at My rock We live for the, I was going to say customer, but that's not right. Reader emails. We love those. You can find us also on

Colin (04:07):

Yeah, that rock Fight Instagram

Justin (04:08):

Handle. Well, that's news to me. Our Instagram handle is rock And of course you should sign up for a rock fights newsletter that comes out each Sunday. Head to rock Click join the mailing list. And while you're there, why don't you check out this week's action figure Our favorite ever? I want to say, don't you think

Colin (04:26):

It's between the insufferable, the Van Lifers and this one, I think. Okay,

Justin (04:29):

Well this one is a squad of, you know what? I don't want to blow it for people. I want you to go to the website and check it out. It's a squad of Karen's. Hopefully you understand what that's getting at, but you're going to love it. Check it out. We dropped these occasionally and frankly we should get more eyeballs on. They're pretty freaking incredible.

Colin (04:51):

If you're not really familiar what our Instagram handle is, how can you be everyone's favorite Cohos?

Justin (04:55):

Well, I follow the us. I just have never typed it in.

Colin (04:58):

Alright, well let's get into this week's gear. Like we said, it's the Oboes CBA wind low before we get into the product, but what do we know about Oboes have? Have you had experienced with Oboes prior?

Justin (05:07):

Yeah, I'm a big fan of Obos, but that was also pre, well, we'll get to that in a second. Yeah, I've been rocking Obos since I started getting into the Gear Review biz back in, I don't know, 2016 or something. They make my current favorite pair of winter boots. The Bridger highs. I love those things. I use 'em in mud season and in the snow. They're fantastic.

Colin (05:30):

Like winter,

Justin (05:31):

Like insulated. Insulated, okay. Insulated with great grip on ice and stuff like that. I love 'em. I look forward to wearing 'em every winter, but also use 'em now if I was going to the mountains just because it gets pretty muddy or if I do mud hikes around here. But anyway, they're great. I've had a few other oboes over the years. My wife wears Oboes when she goes hiking, but they sold to New Zealand brand Cat Mandu, I guess in 18. Yeah, you have it here in the notes. And I haven't really dealt anything with, I haven't used any Obos since then really. But all I really know is the name has something to do with Bozeman outside Bozeman. I guess they were always really high quality. They were brand I could always trust when I got shoes to review from them. So I was a big fan. Even had even dabbled. I don't know if they still do. They dabbled in weird sandals for a while and they had some pretty neat post hike sandals that I really liked. The camper. The camper, that's what they were called. The camper.

Colin (06:28):

The camper was the sandal. Yeah. Yes. The brand started of 2007. A guy named John Connolly founded them. He was an industry guy going to start a, have you seen this child? He always wanted have his own

Justin (06:39):

Brand. What? John Conner came back and was like, fuck it, and just started a hiking shoe. Brandon instead, should the

Colin (06:43):

Next Terminator movie should The crux of it should be about a

Justin (06:46):

Footwear brand. He's like, you know what? I don't want to deal with this. I don't want to, this is hard.

Colin (06:51):

I'm always on the run anyway. I need good shoes.

Justin (06:54):

I'm going to make a bunch of money. I just cash out and then I'm going to let the world go to hell. I'm just going to be on Barbados. Assuming the Terminators don't go there. That would be much

Colin (07:03):

Better. I hate to find them better movie. Did you know the funny thing about Terminators that they'll never stop until you are dead. So I don't think that's true, but they don't have

Justin (07:09):

Boats. What are they going to do? Just walk on the surface, on the ocean floor and climb up into that movie

Colin (07:16):

Would've a lot shorter if she just went out to Catalina Island. Right?

Justin (07:19):


Colin (07:20):

Just like, I'm out here now.

Justin (07:22):

We're never going to figure out how to build boats.

Colin (07:26):

So John Connelly started the brand 2007. He was an industry guy, always wanted to have his own footwear brand. So he started up and God, I didn't realize they were that old. My first experience with 'em was definitely seeing them at Outdoor Retailer. I'll admit I've never been a fan of the name the first few years. I was like, what is that? What even is that? I didn't even know that it was related to it. It

Justin (07:44):

Does sound, it kind of sounds like Candy. Yeah. Something I would've stolen from a convenience mart in 1990 or something like that. Yeah, I could

Colin (07:54):

See that right next to the I get some.

Justin (07:57):

I love Obos and Nico wafers.

Colin (07:59):

What'd you get at the movie? Oh, I got some spree and I got some Obos. Yeah,

Justin (08:02):


Colin (08:03):

Yeah, I could see that. Dude. Wait,

Justin (08:05):

Hold on. I have a question. Do people refer to Bozeman as Bose?

Colin (08:09):

Maybe it has

Justin (08:10):

To have a nickname that town, right? I mean hopefully it's not something dumb like B Town, but sorry. Sorry. Anybody who lives in Bozeman, I apologize if that's the beloved nickname of your town, but

Colin (08:23):

This is the first time I've used ever tried an

Justin (08:25):

Bose product products. Yeah. Okay. This is it.

Colin (08:27):

Cool. Well, I guess kind of get into it wearing these, I feel like I understand you a little bit

Justin (08:33):

Better. That's weird, but

Colin (08:34):

Go ahead. Well, because I felt your pain and your suffering while I had them. No, they are a true hiking shoe. I mean, with the thing way you used, the way you've described your experience with Boots and what you like about Boots and why you don't hiking in trail runners. I feel like that experience kind of came through in wearing these, the stability underfoot. I see. The way it felt like a low boot. Yeah, no, so this is an absolutely true hiking shoe and I think when you look at the category, a lot of them are more just kind of beefed up sneakers. And we're going to talk about, I've got some category notes down the road, but they, they're softer. This felt hiking in it. I was reminded me of what I used to hike and boots and it's not really for me, my personal experience wearing it was not like, I don't think I want to mimic this.


I think it kind of drove home the point that I like trail runners, but I really do think that Obos knocked it out of the park with what this is because so often most low cut hikers to me, again, they're more like a sneaker. It's a tan or brown sneaker that is a little beefed up to look like a hiking shoe. And I just like, why don't you just get a good trail runner because you're probably going to enjoy wearing it a little bit more or get an actual boot. And I feel like this really kind of found that sweet spot in

Justin (09:48):

Between. So one of the things I've always liked about Obos, and I would guess I've tried at least five different pairs, including the campers, the sandals I liked where they very clearly are. This might be obvious, but I don't think that many shoe brands actually do this or at least do that. Well, they are very clearly built for hiking. That's the main, when they start out to design the shoe, it's about hiking, how's it going to feel on a trail and then they build everything else around it. Also, boots are the kind of thing where it could just be that my foot likes a particular kind of last because a lot of brands have a very, they have a last that they kind of build all their different shoes around. It's possible that mine just agree with oboes, but everything I've worn from them has been a very pleasant trail shoot. I mean, their tagline is true to the trail and I think that's pretty clear about what you're going to get. Even I have one very specific memory of hiking kind of ish. Not early my backpacking, but I had started backpacking and kind of put it aside for a while. When I got back into it like a decade or so ago, it was one of the earlier trips I was on and the laces or something broke on whatever boot I was wearing. And I had my campers, which are kind of C clogged with,

Colin (11:02):

Yeah, the sandals. You're about

Justin (11:03):

Clothes. They were kind of like the bedrock mountain clogs, but foam rubber. They weren't like leather. But even those, I hiked 12 miles out on the last day. My boots were broken somehow and they were fine. They were great. They were pleasant to hike it. So at least at it used to be the case that everything that they made was built around that. It was built around the hiking experience first. So I'm not surprised to hear you say that about the issues.

Colin (11:28):

And the other thing, even

Justin (11:29):

Though you're wrong about trail runners generally.

Colin (11:32):

Well, I just didn't like it. But the other thing too is they clearly invested in the materials and the construction of these. I mean, it has $180 hundred and $80 price tag, which is really

Justin (11:43):

High. That's way more than I would expected at first,

Colin (11:46):

But okay, stepping on our stuff, oter category saying, but the Merrill Moab, which is an easy comp to this is a hundred bucks if you go to So I mean most of those other shoes are going to be less, frankly, you look at most of Obos line compared to comparable styles from other brands. It's a little bit more, and I think they really do. They seem to really invest in their product stuff is good. Yeah, I mean the materials, this reminded me a lot of my time at ptech, and I know I've probably talked about this before on the rock fight, but there was a really frustrating thing where a lot of my opinions about how brands in the outdoor industry are formed were, from my experience, trying to sell them the kind of textiles that they wanted and asked for in terms of sustainability and performance.


But nine times out of 10, they would then say, that's too much money to get the better fabrics and to get the better materials. It costs more money to develop it and to bring it to market. But they wanted a certain performance, but they didn't want to pay for it. I mean, I don't know anyone at Obos. I've not talked to a developer over there, I couldn't tell you. But my sense is looking at the category across the board wearing these shoes and looking at them and the quality of it, I think they put their money where their mouth is with this one. I mean, it's a really good shoe. Now, again, not really for me, but I get it. And if this is the kind of shoe that you want to go, if you want a hiking shoe, this is for you.

Justin (13:04):

There are a few brands that, and I haven't been doing it with again, this is my first pair since they were purchased by Cat Mandu, but in the past if people, or when people would ask me recommendations for Boots if they weren't really, or just hikers in general shoes, whatever it would always be, and those are always the two that I would unequivocally recommend without even thinking about it. And that's because the quality's there. I mean, it's a quality shoot. Plus they used to have, again, I haven't thought about Obos since the sale for whatever reason, but when I first got into them, they had a really community vibe around on their website. Their brand just felt very, they wanted you to be their friend. They had a lot of customer, it was customer reviews or just shots from in the field with which every brand does that. But something about the Obos one, it felt like you were aware of something that most other people weren't. Was it sort of a,

Colin (13:57):

Is that how you became the favorite co-host of the rock fight you wanted be everybody's friend or

Justin (14:01):

You think of a people pleaser? Is that what you're accusing

Colin (14:04):

Me of? Actually, no, I know that you're not a people pleaser.

Justin (14:06):


Colin (14:08):

No, but I get you're saying the vibe of the brand. Yeah.

Justin (14:11):

It felt like you're in a club, like a cool club for people who really love hiking and not a lot of bullshit. That's how it seemed to me, and I don't always care about this, but when I would go to or and the reps would talk to me, they'd invite me out to Bozeman. I'd always want to go out to Bozeman and go to the Obos factory or the headquarters. I just thought it would be cool. I really liked their brand. Never actually did that. But

Colin (14:32):

Anyway, I guess the one, I'll talk about my personal experience with 'em in a second, but they are a little more in line with a trail runner in terms of materials, which I'm sure is beneficial in terms of the fit in the feel and how quickly they'll dry those kinds of things. I'm assuming that it's a burly midsole and outsole that I would is going to last like a hiking shoe would. I guess the one question I would have if I did use these, if I was a hardcore backpacker and I used them a lot over summer, how long is that upper going to last? Is that material going to hold up? Kind of like the creasing, there's no creas, but right on the top of the toe where you get that crease when you flex your foot, is that going to last? Unlike some of it's cheaper and probably not as well made comparable styles from other brands, but if you're using a leather or a pleather or a new buck or whatever it is, it's likely going to last a little bit longer than whatever the fabric is that they used on this shoe

Justin (15:25):

Might be about. It doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel cheap. It doesn't feel like, meh, not at all. It doesn't feel like it's mesh that you're just going to rip through or anything like that. It does feel like the shoe will be around for a while. I would guess maybe not if you're doing the PCT, but if you want something that isn't maybe a super technical Burley Solomon or somebody who makes low hiking shoes that aren't necessarily trail runners that are more geared toward hiking, but you can run them if you want to. So something that's going to have a bit more bite, a bit more protection, all that sort of stuff. This would fit into that category, but it's a little bit softer, if that makes sense. It has a bit more of a pliability than a lot of really burly, dedicated hiking shoes would have. I run in these, I've run in these how? Well usually just kind of one foot in front of the other.

Colin (16:25):

Is that how that

Justin (16:25):

Works? The way I've always seen people run. I love running in these, but

Colin (16:29):

Okay, so we recently we reviewed the ess, right? The Hoka ess. Well,

Justin (16:33):

That's different. That's a running shoe. I mean that's made to run in. This is not made to

Colin (16:38):

Hike in. It has similar, you put it on, it does kind of use a impulsiveness super like you do in a running machine. Super lot

Justin (16:44):

Of rebound. A ton of rebound in the mid-sole ton.

Colin (16:47):

So if you would go back and forth between the ate and the ca, I mean, what do you notice? Go ahead. Well, the CBA

Justin (16:56):

Is way stiffer. Way stiffer.

Colin (16:58):

Way stiffer, right? You run it though.

Justin (17:01):

Yeah, I don't mind that. I don't mind that ing. Yeah, I don't ever want to feel like my feet are moving. That's the last thing I want to feel. So that's my main grip. Well,

Colin (17:09):

That's I'm saying when I feel like I kind of understand you a little bit better, right, because I put this on, this is exactly what Justin's talking about, what

Justin (17:14):

You said. It could be I clumsy, I'm like a giraffe. I don't know, but I don't want to feel my feet move if I feet are swimming or moving or anything. No, I'm not interested. Oddly enough, I do like hiking in Bedrocks, which you get a lot of movement, but that's

Colin (17:27):

Its own kind of thing though. Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. But it is funny given the uptick of especially the Lone Peak and the Ultras and everything that among the through hiking community, because I know exactly what you're talking about, especially now that they're wearing these, like I said, I get it, that kind of just bomber platform that you're just like, I'm not going to slip. This thing is going to stick place. My foot isn't moving, all that kind of stuff. When you're running, that becomes, you want to have some give because it's faster, the reaction time, you hit the ground, you want to have a little bit of give. I think these are running shoes, so I do wonder why

Justin (18:06):

Do build those running

Colin (18:06):

Shoes? I wonder there's more people out there think the way you do than maybe that are known just because so many through hikers have gotten used to running hiking in their

Justin (18:15):

Trail. These aren't, I wouldn't call these trail runners.

Colin (18:19):

They're not. No, no. They advertise 'em as kind the FKT. They're a hiking shoe. Yeah,

Justin (18:26):

I don't, I've worn these to trail run a few times and I run from my house to where the trail starts on pavement and yeah, it's not quite as plush and as comfortable as the Hokas. I mean, I would choose the Hokas for that next time, but I tried to do these and it was fine. I mean, I feel like if you were trying to do 50 mile days or something crazy where you are going to be doing some running, these would be fine for that and they're going to last a hell of a lot longer than those hokas are. They're the same price and they're going to last at I would guess three times as long.

Colin (18:56):

Yeah. When we get to rating them, we're going to rate them on their own merit. But as just my personal use, this was to me just like, no, no, no. This is not for me. This is not the kind of shoe that I want to wear.

Justin (19:09):

You wouldn't wear these hiking?

Colin (19:11):

No, actually, and I don't want to spoil it because we're going to do it down the road. I've had two trail runners that I've been kind of testing out and I could not get back into them faster after going up for a hike. I actually liked wearing these around, just kind of throwing them on, pick up my kids or whatever. And they actually, for as burly as they are, there's a, and as well documented, you and I both have big feet. They look pretty good.

Justin (19:34):

They look great. I love how they look. They look, I love the funky yellow color. They only make this too kind of puke green, yellow color. They call it winter gold and

Colin (19:43):

It's a stretch.

Justin (19:44):

The other one's kind of a, what are we calling that?

Colin (19:46):

A sort of more dark

Justin (19:48):

Gray with sort of a tan, which is fine. That's

Colin (19:51):

Kind boring. You know what, you're at the end of the stomach virus.

Justin (19:54):

Bile is bile dot color.

Colin (19:58):

That is, yes. Bio yellow is what

Justin (20:01):

Your gold, my body has produced this color is what I'm trying to say. But I like it. Love it. I think it looks awesome. As soon as they pulled 'em out of the box, I was stoked.

Colin (20:11):

And I mean, listen, everything we're saying is sort of in line with how they want us to feel about this shoe. If you read the marketing materials, you hear how they write about it, they call it, what is it? A trail shoe that's for, they're like F kts, but on hiking. It is a hiking shoe, a fast packer shoe, and I think they're doing that partly because at a glance it kind of looks like a trail runner. It has a more trail runner aesthetic compared to, they sent us another one, which I'm not sure we'll talk about much, but it looks more traditional, kind of soft, low cut hiker. But no, it lives up to that naming convention. Right? This is a hiking shoe.

Justin (20:44):

Well, you know how I'm set up to set the FKT on the Pacific Crest Trail later the summer, right? Sure. Doing

Colin (20:50):

Sure. I think I'm supporting you on that. Yeah.

Justin (20:51):

Yeah. I mean this is what I would wear. I mean, it's a fast pack shoe. I mean for ideally you're going out, I mean, I dunno if an ultra light packer would use or a backpacker would use something like this, it might be too heavy. How heavy are they, by the way?

Colin (21:05):

About one point pound, nine ounces. They're not heavy at all.

Justin (21:09):

They feel great. So I mean, this is definitely the kind, if I were to do something where I really did want to cover 30 miles a day really quickly, and that's not my style, which is why I don't like to high control runners, this is what I would wear.

Colin (21:22):

Well, that's kind of what I wanted to ask you. Knowing how much you love your scarpa's and all the leather boots, and I know you're testing out even other leather boots now because getting a reputation. He's the leather boot guy. Would this give you, consider you're going to go on a two day backpacking trip this summer. Would you consider this shoe?

Justin (21:40):


Colin (21:41):

No. You wouldn't even think about it?

Justin (21:43):

Well, no, I don't.

Colin (21:44):

It feels like a boot man.

Justin (21:46):

I guess I would consider it, but I mean, I dunno how many times I have to explain this to you, man. I like hiking in boots. I prefer that feeling. So it feels like a, I'm not trying to get away from that. I'm trying to do that more. So there, there'd be very little reason for me to consider these unless I just wanted to, I guess just to see, okay, what happens if I wear these? I don't know. I guess.

Colin (22:07):

Well, that's what I mean. If they're lighter than a boot, but they got the kind of same features that you like about a more traditional boot, wouldn't it be an interesting experience?

Justin (22:14):

I wouldn't go that far. They're stiff or than a super soft trail runner, but they don't, they're nothing like a boot. I know what you're asking. I see what you're getting at. I guess I would consider it, but I would probably not. I'd probably go with a boot. I mean, even for easy, I would definitely wear these for a day hike around here. No question. This is my day hike shoe. That's a day. That's your day for sure. I would definitely. Okay, so I like to do a lot of, I don't even know if it's legal around here, frankly. I live in basically a museum, but I like to do off trail hiking and that involves scrambling often. This is definitely great for that. These are really good, which we haven't talked about yet, but they're great and they're burly enough to where you don't feel like you're going to chew them up in the,

Colin (22:56):

I just assumed it was brm when I saw it and it's not. It's a great

Justin (22:59):

Outsole they use. Oh, it always makes their own outsoles. I'm pretty sure. Always do. Kind of keen way. I took

Colin (23:04):

On, there's a trail that I hike on regularly and I took it up there and it was stuck to it like glue and not a mark on it afterwards. I mean obviously it was one hike, but still just looking at it, if I hit up with the hose, you would've thought it was brand new. It was awesome. Hundred

Justin (23:17):


Colin (23:18):

Though, huh? Well let's talk about that, right? So it is 185 bucks. It's available

Justin (23:23):

Every, is that in US dollars or Montana dollars?

Colin (23:25):

Yeah, so

Justin (23:27):

It's a Uck dollars.

Colin (23:29):

It's at REI. It's at back country. It's at Dick's Sporting Goods now it's well distributed. Yeah, but it's also, you can get it at specialty dealers. I think this is an interesting thing about the brand, right? So I did ping a few folks that I know on the retail front, this Obos has a tough time at the specialty shops anyway because of the price points of the Keens and Merrills who all are similar products at a solid 10, 20, 30, $40

Justin (23:58):

Less. You would never buy Merrills over Oboes, would you?

Colin (24:01):

I wouldn't. You wouldn't. But if you walk in going, oh, I'm going hiking for it's 4th of July weekend. I need a pair of hikers and there's a pair of Keen tars for 140 bucks, which are like a mid, and here's this one for 185, you're not even probably going to try this one on.

Justin (24:16):

Yeah. Well, what's interesting about, I don't even know what it's like to go and do an outdoor store and buy shoes anymore, so I don't know how they're selling these. You

Colin (24:25):

Send an email and shit shows up.

Justin (24:27):

Or even if I, yeah, and there's not outdoor stores, there's not independent ones around me, which I would love to frequent, but there's not. So if I were to buy something, I would do it online. But what's interesting, so these have carbon fiber, at least in, I dunno if it's just one place, maybe two, but they have a carbon fiber plate, which is on the forefoot, so it's not exactly, I guess it's kind of often like a burly hiking boot will have a shank, but it's never almost never carbon. So that's really interesting. No, but this

Colin (24:58):

Is where you get that energy return. This is where you get that feeling,

Justin (25:01):

The stiffness mostly.

Colin (25:02):


Justin (25:02):

Exactly. But it's going to help with the rebound too, but that's pretty cool and that's definitely unique. It also, they have nitrogen infused foam, which isn't, I've heard of other people using that, but it says something get

Colin (25:14):

High if you try and carbon

Justin (25:15):

In there, which makes sense. I was attracted, I was trying to cut the shoe open and huff it, so I must've been able to sense that, but that is

Colin (25:22):

Interesting. Came home barefoot. It was weird, but I felt

Justin (25:24):

Good. That's an interest, but is that the kind of thing, where is that going to be sold? Is REI employee going to know to tell you about that? That is pretty big benefit and it's also not going to degrade, right? You can crush. A lot of times there'll be some kind of plastic plate or something else that acts as a shank in a shoe like this that will eventually probably just kind of lose its feel over time. But the carbon's just not going to do that, so that's pretty cool.

Colin (25:53):

No, and it speaks back to what I was saying at the beginning about this is an incredibly well thought out constructed shoe with great materials and fabrics and the way it's assembled, frankly, the retailer who I reached out to also commented on how the midsole is interesting and how it's going to last a long time. It's also why it's 185 bucks, and to your exact point of who's going into a specialty dealer, well, you or I would go into a specialty dealer. Nomad Ventures, apparently they carry it there. It's right down the street here. If I went in, I was looking for a shoe like this, they would probably know about it. I'd have the specialty experience. But if it's mostly distributed in an REI, Dick's or even online in a back country, which is going to be mostly driven by the price point, that's going to be tough because there's real reasons why this shoe's 185 bucks. We're talking about 'em. We're praising the shoe because of good. It is, but that's some tough sledding for Oboes.

Justin (26:49):

Well, it looks like you can get a ca. That's not the wind. That's just the regular atic and it's 80 bucks cheaper, doesn't have carbon.

Colin (26:58):

Yeah, well

Justin (26:59):


Colin (26:59):

Probably some more of those.

Justin (27:00):

Yeah, that's interesting.

Colin (27:01):

Let's talk about the category mean. So this is a pretty stuffed category. I mentioned the Merrill. You've got things like the Keen targets. I know that's a mid, but still kind of in the same ballpark. Solomon X Ultra fours, that's another one that's sort of HO is making 'em now. Ultra has them now. These sort of mid-weight kind of lightweight hiking shoes. OBO seems to have the average, average price point. I think this is a case where it's a relatively overstuffed category, but it's also probably a category that sells really well, right? Sure does the folks, the casual hikers, or even just the Costco dads, right? The price points obviously do the better ingredients. They talk a lot about the recycled content. This has come down to me for this is an educated hiker shoe, and I don't think this gets even in an overstuff category. I wouldn't ding this shoe in particular in an overstuff category.

Justin (27:52):

Yeah, I mean, were you looking to Yeah, you were looking to pick a fight. You're trying to pick a fight. Yeah,

Colin (27:58):


Justin (27:59):

Yeah. No, I know my shit, man. I mean, the thing that's cool about a shoe, this is, well, you were surprised by how much it felt like an actual hiker, right? You were expecting a plush slipper, like the bullshit you usually wear, but then you were pleasantly surprised that it was stiff. It felt supportive. It felt

Colin (28:20):

There was a differentiation. Usually I was doing a sloppy running shoe, a little more give to it or something like that, but yeah,

Justin (28:27):

Exactly. Well, I, and I think that's cool. I mean, they obviously thought out how they're going to put the shoe together. I love including the carbon. So you get this super lightweight, very synthetic, very modern, hyper modern, almost design and ingredient list and all that sort of stuff. But it feels like a traditional hiker, but it weighs way less, and that's very cool. Usually that's a trade off. Usually if you're getting a super lightweight trail runner type thing, it's not going to feel like a supportive traditional hiker. This does that. And the other ones they sent us, I don't even know what they are way probably twice as much. It's a completely different feel. So

Colin (29:08):

It's more like the other ones in this category.

Justin (29:10):

So I guess that's why I like them so much. They're the best blend I've seen of the traditional hiker feel with all the modern bobs and bells and whistles that you'd want.

Colin (29:23):

Honestly, this, we've talked about this a lot. Spend the money, even if you're kind of a beginner, like buy the feral wetsuit, buy the Scarpa boots. Even if you're just interested in hiking, this shoe's going to last a long time. It's enough of a athletic fit that you'll want to wear it around. And it's not just going to be a big wonky hiker that maybe you're not going to, you'll get the experience of some of the best parts of a trail runner and the best parts of a boot and I don't know. And it's a good looking shoe. Plus

Justin (29:53):

You could ride a bike with these too. They're supportive enough and stiff enough to where you could use these to ride a bike.

Colin (29:57):

Alright, let's rate these guys.

Justin (29:59):


Colin (30:00):

Going first. You want to go first? Me

Justin (30:01):

To go first? I want me to go first.

Colin (30:02):

Yeah. Okay. Well, so kudos for making a hiking specific shoe that channels a running aesthetic, because I wouldn't be caught dead in most of the shoes in the hiking category. Not my thing. And it's personally not my kind of shoe. Like I said, I want to rate it on its own merits. So I'm giving it at 8.3.

Justin (30:20):

That's pretty high. That's higher than considering that. Right before we started, you texted me about how much you didn't like these shoes, but you understood why I did. Okay. I don't know what the, I'm going to give it a nine. I mean, I don't know what they could have. I honestly don't know what else they could have done.

Colin (30:35):

I'll never wear it backpacking, but it's a nine housing. There

Justin (30:38):

We go. It's own merit. It's not my own subject.

Colin (30:42):

Exactly. Same thing. Yeah.

Justin (30:43):

I don't know what else you could have done for a shoe like this. They really kind of ticked all the boxes and I think it looks great. I really like how it looks.

Colin (30:53):

We got these shoes because Amy back, who's the president of Obos, reached out and offered to send us some stuff. And I've known Amy for a while. I worked with her a little bit when I was at smartwool. She's wonderful. And I'll be honest, I was a little worried. I'm not going to like anything she said. I just didn't think, it's just not my, typically what I would wear. I'm really impressed with this shoe. I think this is a really unique shoe in a world where, I don't know, there's not a lot of unique shoes anymore. So I think what they've done here, it's worth that price tag. I think, like I said, as a beginner, it would be good for you. But even as an experienced hiker, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm going to go hike in it or wear it all the time. I will use this shoe again, even though it's not kind my go-to for a hiking shoe

Justin (31:35):

Basically, since we've, how long have we had these? Six weeks, two months? Yeah, I guess

Colin (31:39):

It's been that long. Yeah, it's

Justin (31:40):

Been a while. You've worn 'em a lot. Yeah, that's what I was just going to say. So since I've had them, I've worn these, I've worn flip flops and I've worn bedrocks and that's it. And nothing else for anything I've done.

Colin (31:52):

Okay. Now let's turn our attention to after the activity at the break, the put in the trail head, we're going to crack open the cooler and iib a beverage so we can celebrate our wins and losses in the back country. Let's have a beer. Alright, Justin. We've just gotten back to the car after a quick two night backpack. Our backs and hips are worked and sore, but our

Justin (32:12):

Feet nights come on

Colin (32:13):

Our feet. Well, we carried some. We carried a few. We carried some cooking kits and stuff. We wanted. Make sure we indulged. It's not a lightweight trip. Okay, fine. Our feet were covered though, in a pair of oboes, ATIC wind lows, and they feel great. They feel like it's just absolutely phenomenal. So we roll into the dirt parking lot. The bugs are buzzing and the sun's blazing down. It's a summer. It's like July. We pop up in the cooler. We filled with ice two days ago and we pull out a of Monta cold snacks. Justin, why is this the pairing that matters most at the Trailhead?

Justin (32:44):

Well, I mean, you really painted a nice picture there, Colin. That was great. Thanks buddy. Thanks, man. I mean,

Colin (32:49):

You get excited. Now, we

Justin (32:50):

Chose it from Montana and that's where Oboes are. That was the pairing idea. But what you've done is you've learned, you've done a really great job of learning that there's a time and a place for every kind of beer, which you didn't know before. Remember, you would just drink anything at any point,

Colin (33:05):

Breakfast, whatever, pulling stuff

Justin (33:07):

Cold morning night, you didn't care. You

Colin (33:09):

Taught me you're supposed to put beer in the fridge. That was an incredible advancement. Look

Justin (33:13):

At you now. Now, yeah, now you've stopped keeping your beer in the river. You're keeping it in a cooler, and that's very important. So I'm very proud of you for knowing that you don't want a nice light kind of lagger that you can almost forget about when you're that thirsty and hot. So that's great. Uck, I'm sure you're listening. I don't know enough about Montana to know if there's a part of Montana that's referred to as Uck. I'm guessing there has to be. Colin, do you know?

Colin (33:47):

Well, as far as I know, it's a kind of well used trope to blend Kentucky. We refer to a lot of parts of Pennsylvania as Penn, Kentucky. So I assume it's something that's like corner more rural red neckish. Part of the state is probably

Justin (34:01):

Does Pennsylvania border Kentucky?

Colin (34:04):

No, but it

Justin (34:05):

Not at all. Right?

Colin (34:06):

I could be wrong, by the way. That's what I just assumed. It was like the Penn.

Justin (34:10):

I'm sure that makes sense. I'm sure that's true. Well, but at first I thought maybe one of the brewers is from Kentucky and one was from Montana. But I dunno, I didn't do that much of a deep dive. All I know is it's from Montana started in what, 2012 I believe. Is that correct? Yes. I love that. It's called cold snack.

Colin (34:28):

I do too.

Justin (34:28):

This is the only beer they make. Isn't that great? That's it. Can we have that again please? Beer World. Just a single, just a company that just makes one beer. That's really all they do. That's all they make. So I wouldn't be surprised if wherever does it say on the can where they're based. Bozeman? Of course. So I wouldn't be surprised if you go to Bozeman and maybe they have a tap room and maybe they make other varieties just for that area. But yeah, this is the only beer that they sell. I have, I love that. The pride can, which is a really gorgeous sort of turquoise with a rainbow and a unicorn. Pega. Is Pegasus always a unicorn?

Colin (35:07):

No. No. Okay. So

Justin (35:08):

This is a unicorn with wings. Colin has the standard, which is just kind of a Mustang, just kind of running around the mountains, the blue. Can you brand on his butt? Empty these empty. You'll get these a lot. Like I said earlier, it used to be you'd go to a bar and you wanted something cheap in a Canada, wherever they'd have PBR or restaurants would do that. But now I feel like around here anyway, it's mostly cold snacks. So I get 'em down the street at a restaurant. I like all time. I don't know that I've ever bought a cold snack until today. Actually. Gone to the store, bought them. They're usually just around. They're usually like four bucks a can at a bar. It's great. Love

Colin (35:47):

Beer. The tradit tradit. Yeah, at traditional can. I would like to have on a T-shirt. I think that'd be a great T-shirt.

Justin (35:52):

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure the color. They have a merch tab on their website. Once you make that happen, there you go. Don't you make that happen. There

Colin (35:57):

You go. Maybe I will.

Justin (35:59):

So that's Uck. They give 8% of their profits to local areas that sell their beer. You know how cool that is? That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money.

Colin (36:11):

That's not a little

Justin (36:12):

Bit, that's kind of their deal. They wanted to do good and make good beer, but that's amazing. But anywhere where the beer is sold, so they give it to parts of California, they get 8% to local causes and stuff like that. It's not just in Montana. That's very, very cool.

Colin (36:26):

Who are these people? This is

Justin (36:28):

Amazing, right? I don't know. I don't know. Bill and Melinda Gates. It says on the can. They started it. So that's the beer. And as you could probably imagine, if you've never had it, it's just a real basic lagger. So

Colin (36:42):

Just a, yeah. So what are we looking for? We've done a couple of loggers. We looked back. We did. We did Bud. I feel like we did. Well then we did the Mexican lagger, which was the na. I think those are the two that come to mind. So what are we looking for as we crack this? This is literally my first time having this beer. Are those

Justin (36:55):

The only two we've done? Yeah, I guess so. Alright, so I mean, a lager can mean a lot of different things. A lager just means the way that it was brewed at a cold temperature, not at a warm temperature like an ale. And you usually have to have it refrigerated while you're brewing it. That's what makes it a lager. But what that usually means is laggers are tighter. They're crisper than ale's. They don't have the fruitiness that an ale does. So with a beer like this, when you open it, the first thing I'm thinking of, well, should we open it now?

Colin (37:22):

You want to do

Justin (37:23):

That? No, let's wait. So just because it's been a while since I've done that, I haven't poured one into a glass. So we'll see how it stands up to it. But what I'd be looking for with a beer like this, you're going to open it. You're going to want to smell a little bit of a bread, just kind of a bready smell. That's a pretty classic lager with just a little edge of the hops. A little edge of bitterness. So like a sharp kind of bread smell. It's going to taste like that too. Kind a lightly toasted bread. That's what you're going for with a log. It's a real light toasted bread because the barley that you use for a lager, this is very lightly roasted

Colin (37:56):

Now. When we were doing all those 10 barrels, you talked a lot about the feel, especially the IPA and the big feel. The mouth feel. Mouth

Justin (38:02):


Colin (38:03):

Is, is that applied to something like this?

Justin (38:06):

But it should just be super, super refreshing and profitable. Almost like a sparkling water. Just something that you just want to just guzzle. Guzzle. That's kind of the idea. Like a really bright light mouthfeel. That's what you want and you don't want, well, for a beer like this, some loggers will be really strong. I mean, a Bach is a logger. I mean, there's lots of different things, but I would prefer that this had a name other than just lagger. That doesn't really tell you. That'd be like buying an ale. It doesn't tell you a ton. Right. But I guess you just kind of know in this country, if you're buying a lagger, that that's just going to be very light. And I think this is 4%, 4.1%.

Colin (38:42):

Well, I was just about to ask, as you put in the outline, it's 4.1%, which is less than Budweiser,

Justin (38:46):

Way less. It's like a full percentage point

Colin (38:49):

Less. Is that intentional or do you think they just like, Hey, when they cracked the coat on, this is what we want it to taste like.

Justin (38:54):

Absolutely. You said that's one of the things when you're making beers, you decide what the a BV is going to be and then you make a recipe to that. So you wouldn't just randomly make a beard and find out what the A BV was.

Colin (39:03):

Alright, let's crack it open and then we can talk about why it pairs with the shoes. Okay.

Justin (39:09):

Alright. Alright, hold on. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Are

Colin (39:11):

You doing? We doing it? Okay.

Justin (39:13):

1, 2, 3, 3.

Colin (39:18):

Oh yeah. No, it smells

Justin (39:20):

Like what it smells like. Is it smells like dough before you've baked it.

Colin (39:24):

Are we sipping or are we pouring?

Justin (39:25):

I'm going to pour it. I want to see the color. Okay, but would you agree it does smell smells

Colin (39:28):

Like raw dough? Yeah, it does smell like it's like raw. Yeah, it smells like dough. Yeah, like bread dough. It does have little Budweiser.

Justin (39:35):

Well, yeah, I mean it's the same, but it just doesn't have any rice or bullshit that bud puts in it, so it's going to be a lot crisper.

Colin (39:40):

Cheers. Cheers.

Justin (39:41):

Cheers buddy. I don't have an actual glass. Damn. You know what that okay.

Colin (39:49):

Oh wow. I get the PBR reference.

Justin (39:53):

You're in Germany and it's hot and you just get whatever lagger they have. That's what you're getting. I forgot that this is what this tastes like. This

Colin (40:02):

Is a very,

Justin (40:02):

Very classic. Absolutely right. Very classic like European lagger. It doesn't quite have the bite that a lot of German pilsners are. I doubt this has sauce hops in it, which is what defines like a pilsner. But

Colin (40:15):

You're absolutely right. This

Justin (40:16):

Is exactly what you want on a hot day. This is exactly what you want.

Colin (40:20):

I have sat in Germany that's better than a thought. David carat and had beers. And this is exactly what it tastes like when you're drinking beer. And you're right. And it could be a pills, it could be leg, it doesn't

Justin (40:28):

Matter or whatever. Anything. It just, whatever they have, whatever the local, this tastes like the local beer or not a local beer. This tastes like if you go into Germany, you ask for a beer, this is what you're going to get. I bet this is what, when Norm walked into the doors at Cheers, this is what he wanted. This is what Norm drinks. This is what he wanted because he could drink 17 of them on a Tuesday afternoon and be fine.

Colin (40:50):

Has anyone named their beer? Is there a norm beer? There should be. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Justin (40:55):

I don't know. There has to be,

Colin (40:56):

Has to be right there.

Justin (40:57):

Untapped to, I mean, if not, we need to stop recording this podcast and get ourselves,

Colin (41:02):

We got a new mission.

Justin (41:02):

That's insane.

Colin (41:04):

This pairs with the shoes for exactly what you're saying. If

Justin (41:05):

You ask me this again, I'm going to fight with you because we talked about it. It was because it's made in Montana. Well,

Colin (41:10):

Okay. It can't just be one thing. Got to

Justin (41:12):

Be other reasons. All right, fine. Well, because this is the perfect thing for, I mean, this would pair well with anything we're going to talk about because it's so refreshing

Colin (41:21):

After you're hot.

Justin (41:23):

Especially when you're hot, especially, I mean, these are both pint cans. I would drink this entire thing in three seconds. If we just in the scenario you just described, I'm super thirsty, super hot. I've just got back like, oh my gosh.

Colin (41:35):

It can't just be, it's Bozeman and it's hot out though, right? I mean, we talked a lot about Obos and we talked about the history of it. How does the brand pair up with the beer?

Justin (41:44):

Alright, so in the same way that the Obos are sort of a modern take on the traditional, I mean that's kind of what this is, right? When craft beer first came out, it was mostly big ales, big strong IPAs, that sort of thing, trying to impress you and kind of knock your socks off with complexity and stuff like that. But as the craft beer movement has kind of moved along, you've gotten a more of appreciation for just a classic beer. And that's what this is to me. I dunno if I would call it a craft beer maybe, but I'd have to just look at their books to see how much they make. I mean, that's more of a volume thing than anything else. But this is a great example of a modern interpretation. Of a classic. The only difference is that the oboes are kind of pricey and this is really cheap. And you can spend a shitload on a logger that's very similar to this if you wanted to, but there's no reason to because they kind of knocked it out of the park.

Colin (42:36):

That is funny. I mean, there was that window we all lived through where all of a sudden the Rainier, the PBRs, the Schaffers, but those beers,

Justin (42:43):

Those be legitimately, I mean, I'll have a Rainier if I just for fun, I loved Longmeyer and that show Longmire, and he drank Rainier like crazy.

Colin (42:52):

But why is the Rainier suck compared to this? I've had Rainier. It's like, it's

Justin (42:56):

Fine, fine, it's fine, it's fine. But

Colin (42:58):

GaN it's kind of like this

Justin (43:02):

Has a fullness to it that tells me that you're in the hands of someone who is brewing beer that knows what they're doing and is giving you something a little bit more. I love Budweiser, I love Coors, but there's a flatness there. You can tell that it has fillers in it. You can tell that it has rice in it. You can tell that they're thinning it out a little bit and it's really good upfront, but it leaves you feeling flat. This has on the backend, I dunno, to me a really good beer is good through all of the phases, the initial taste kind of while it's in your mouth, now you've swallowed it. Now you have that after taste. It needs to be solid all the way across. What usually happens with a shitty beer like a PBR or Rainer, it falls off immediately. You have that first taste and then it's gone. This to me, all the way through, it has a nice quality to it. It has a nice round quality to it. So I feel like it is cheap, but I have a feeling that it cost them more to make than it would like a giant brewery that's just cranking out shipping containers full of Heineken or whatever. This just feels like it's all the way through. It's really solid.

Colin (44:05):

Okay, so this is the beer drinkers cheap beer, right? This is the where you and I are stopping. We're picking up some Monta. You get the three in the cooler, the cores bud or Monta,

Justin (44:17):

The gold snack. Like I said, I never really buy these, but I'm going to after having this. This is great. No, I like this. I'm going to start bringing these in. This, which is still my all time favorite, the founders all day. IPA for the fact that's only 0.7% more alcohol, but has way more flavor. Well,

Colin (44:35):

That's it. I'd rather have

Justin (44:36):

Pal out. But if its doing something different, but this is very, very good. I mean, usually when I've had these, it's been like someone's handing me one. I'm not really thinking about it. But now that I'm actually sitting with it and really judging it, this is a great beer.

Colin (44:48):

Well, what are you going to rate this one man?

Justin (44:51):

Jesus Christ. I just talked a big game about how good it is. But you did. I'm go back. I can't give it that high of a score because at end of the day it's a 4% lager. But

Colin (45:01):

Man, we are really generous with our scores. Well, the

Justin (45:03):

Problem is I love beer. It has to be, you have to do fucked it up. Not to at least think it's an eight.

Colin (45:08):

Do you want to know? Do you want to know what you scored? Your Budweiser?

Justin (45:11):

Yeah. 7, 9, 7

Colin (45:13):


Justin (45:14):

Okay, that's good. I'm going to give this a seven, nine then.

Colin (45:20):

Okay. Alright. 7.9. Yeah.

Justin (45:22):

And the only reason it's not higher is just because, I mean for what it is, it should be probably should be higher, but I have to leave room for beers that are kind of blowing your hair back to get a higher score. And this is a phenomenal beer, but the ceiling is low for a beer like this.

Colin (45:37):

Yeah. I'm going to go 6.6. I gave the bud, I think 6.9. What? I gave the bud

Justin (45:41):

Less than Bud.

Colin (45:43):

Well, hold on. I, what did I give the Budweiser? I don't

Justin (45:45):

Know. That just seems insane.

Colin (45:46):

Yeah, sorry, sorry. 6.2. I gave Budweiser 6.2, so I'm giving this a 6.6. Alright,

Justin (45:52):

Good. Good. Thank you. Yeah.

Colin (45:54):

Okay. To summarize this episode of Gear and Beer, in our gear category, we have the oboes catabolic wind lows, which I rated an 8.3 and Justin rated a nine. And when you're looking to refresh yourself after your big hike, the official Cicero of the rock fight suggests that you should enjoy yourself with a frosty cold ucky cold snack, which Justin rated a 7.9 and I rated a 6.6 on the gear and beer beer scale. Did we do it?

Justin (46:21):

Yeah, we did. We recorded another podcast. It says it right here on the podcast recorder.

Colin (46:26):

I don't think anyone is better at this than you and me.

Justin (46:30):

I didn't realize there were other podcasts.

Colin (46:32):

This is the only

Chris DeMakes (46:33):


Justin (46:35):

Wait, what are you talking about? There's other, oh shit we have to get better at. There's other people doing this.

Colin (46:40):

Alright, well that's the show for today. What did you think of this edition of Gear and Beer. Do you have a suggestion for a future edition of Gear and Beer or do you simply dislike or love gear and beer? Send an email to My rock Let us know what you think. The rock fight is a production of rock Fight LL c, and today's episode was produced by David Kasad For Justin Hausman, I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening here to take us out. It's our guy Kristen Makes with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock

Chris DeMakes (47:07):

Fight, rock fight. Rock fight, rock fight, rock fight, fight. Fight where we speak our truth. Stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pig bikes are fantastic that we find interesting. Black by culture. Music the latest movie reviews, ideas for the head. This is where we speak truth. This is where we speak truth. Rock, bike. Welcome to, welcome to the.


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