Preseason vs ASAP Orders: Who Holds The Risk? Plus: Redefining The Zombie Brand!
- colin7931
- 3 days ago
- 44 min read
Today on the show Colin convenes with The Monday Boys (outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford and brand/creative expert Producer Dave) to run through the following headlines to come out of the outdoor industry:
Mailbag! A listener looks back on one of the OGÂ low top hikers. (05:23)
Consumer sentiment is on the decline. What does this actually mean for the outdoor industry? (09:57)
Gravel Running Mania! Salomon has added gravel as a category on their website. Is that the first domino to fall that leads to gravel becoming a full time shoe wall category? (17:52)
Big week for Vans. First they unveil the objectively terrible 'Future Clog' while prognosticators ponder if vulcanized rubber sneakers are poised for a comeback. (23:17)
The Rock Fight Lightning Round! This weeks topics: Angler Core! Alcohol Consumption! Inactivity! (28:35)
According to The Rock Fight's consigliere, retailers are being conservative heading into the F26 selling season. What's going on out there? (32:20)
Lastly for The Parting Shot Eoin takes over and creates his own 1990's playlist. (43:58)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.160 - 00:01:20.970
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00:01:21.130 - 00:01:40.790
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Colin True
00:01:42.070 - 00:01:59.390
Welcome to the Rock fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and joining me today, they awaken once again from their week long slumber.
It's the Monday boys, Owen Comerford and producer Dave. What's up guys?
Eoin Comerford
00:01:59.390 - 00:02:01.900
I'm still sleepy. Still sleepy. Wow.
Producer Dave
00:02:01.900 - 00:02:08.940
How can you still be hot? We have an extreme weather warning out here. It's gonna get like to be 82 degrees or something.
Colin True
00:02:09.100 - 00:02:21.260
Extreme weather warnings in the northwest are pretty funny.
When I moved there from like Utah where it got actually really hot, and then in Seattle, it's like, hey guys, it's gonna be like, it's gonna be like 82 today. Better, better take it easy out there, you know.
Producer Dave
00:02:21.260 - 00:02:25.020
And then they, they trot out all of the, the air conditioning stats.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:25.180 - 00:02:29.660
Oh my gosh, it hit like 100 degrees in Portland last year or something.
Producer Dave
00:02:29.660 - 00:02:33.700
Oh, it did? Yeah. Well, it's gotten to 112 in the last few years.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:33.700 - 00:02:35.780
Yeah, it's gotten whacking. Wow.
Producer Dave
00:02:35.780 - 00:02:36.100
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:36.100 - 00:02:43.860
Yeah, those, those Portlandian, they just melt above 90, so it must have just been. They must have just been combusting on the street.
Producer Dave
00:02:44.180 - 00:02:48.980
You know, we've got a lot of trees, a lot of shade. Cold beer. We can do it.
Colin True
00:02:48.980 - 00:02:59.510
Well, hold on. We're going to get into the cold beer of it all in a few minutes here. Okay? Maybe not be able to talk about that anymore. All right. But.
But Owen, we have not had a lake check in. It's August 22nd. Are we. Is the water temp? Is it bath water?
Eoin Comerford
00:02:59.510 - 00:03:06.910
Is it just wonderful? It is beautiful today. I can't believe that I'm stuck inside with you assholes when I could be out on the boat. That's.
Producer Dave
00:03:06.910 - 00:03:07.430
That's very.
Colin True
00:03:07.430 - 00:03:09.950
No one says you can't pod from the boat. Let's just put it that, you know.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:09.950 - 00:03:12.510
Oh, that would. That's. We could do that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Colin True
00:03:12.910 - 00:03:16.030
I'm editing out all the windblown noise, you know, from on the.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:17.230 - 00:03:25.870
Or. Yeah, or some, some asshole goes by on a, on a wakeboard boat and just blasts me with, you know, his awful music choices. Yeah. No.
Colin True
00:03:26.470 - 00:04:28.290
All right, some programming reminders for our listeners tomorrow. Doug Schnitzbahn, Tuesdays, opens a container like he always does. His guest this week, guys, it's a. It's a special one.
Doug is welcoming Rock Fight's own Shantae Salibare to open the container with him. Talk about a whole bunch of outdoorsy stuff, including her upcoming podcast, Gear Abby, which will be debuting next week on Thursday, September 4th.
Hopefully by the time you're hearing this, maybe shortly after the trailer will be out. We'll link to that and whenever, wherever you get stuff from Rock Fight so you can follow that show and be ready for gear at.
And on Wednesday, you can also hear Shantae here on the Rock Fight when she and I chat about the latest headlines come out of the outdoor adventure community.
On this upcoming Friday's episode, Columbia SVP of marketing Matt Sutton is going to join producer Dave and I to talk about Columbia's Engineered for Whatever campaign, answer the question, what was the brief? And then also respond to all the haters that are currently still thriving inside my LinkedIn threads.
Dave, with that in mind, you know, how can our listeners get even more from the Rock Fight than what I just described?
Producer Dave
00:04:28.450 - 00:04:41.630
Colin, there's so more news from the front every few days or so or few weeks or whenever, really. Colin kind of decides to throw that out the window, the moving window, I might add.
Colin True
00:04:41.950 - 00:04:42.990
It's a newsletter.
Producer Dave
00:04:43.470 - 00:04:54.750
It's a newsletter. It's a newsletter. Right? And the best way to get that is head to Rockfight co and sign up and yeah, it goes directly to your inbox.
Colin True
00:04:55.470 - 00:05:04.140
Oh, and how can our listeners reach out to us? Maybe want to comment on Gear Abby or open container or what's going on with our guests coming up. How can they reach out?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:04.380 - 00:05:23.580
Well, if you want to be part of our listener mailbox segment that's coming up right after this, you can email us@myrockfightmail.com you can reach us on LinkedIn just search up rock fight or on Instagram where we are Rock fight co all one word and you can follow along or send us a message.
Colin True
00:05:24.150 - 00:06:30.950
Well, like Owen alluded to, we do have a bit of a listener mailbag and we're going to start with friend of the pod and owner of the trailhead in Missoula, Montana. Todd Frank sent us a letter, sent us an email last week writing in to highlight how long low top hikers have actually been around.
I guess on a recent episode we gave credit to Montreux for the category, but as Todd points out in his email, it was actually in the early 80s that we saw the first foray into this category and it came from a brand that is probably going to make some of the modern outdoor gatekeepers pretty mad. So Todd writes, hey guys, I listened to the episode this week about fielding Montreal, came up as an OG of the original low top hiker.
Just want to call your young asses out a bit.
I got my first pair of these and he sends a picture Nike lava domes in 1980 or 1981 and did a five day trip in the Beartooths where a couple of friends and their dads thought I was crazy and that I was going to die. These are in my opinion the OG low top hiker.
Not that Nike deserves any recognition, but they do deserve it here and Todd included a photo and a description. I'll link it in the show notes but I'll put it up on Instagram of the OG lava dome. Dave, did that take you back? Do you remember the lava domes?
Producer Dave
00:06:31.190 - 00:07:04.340
I do remember the lava domes. Lava domes are great. That whole first, you know, early 80s Nike line kind of pre ACG attempted outdoor was still just interesting. Interesting colors.
The lava dome I think they had the I think there was the caldera was another one. But yeah, just some cool starting to see the fashion influence to hiking really early.
But I'm not sure with that if that's the first one either though I would have to say that I think we could probably throw some rocks because where does solo come in or.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:04.340 - 00:07:04.660
Or.
Producer Dave
00:07:06.420 - 00:07:19.660
Excuse me, where does Oslo Come in. I mean, what about the first high techs? Do those technically count? I mean, if you're taking kind of low. He's calling low top.
Is that the light hiker category? And so I guess.
Colin True
00:07:19.660 - 00:07:27.100
I mean, if you look at it, there's some. It's very cortezy. Right. I mean, it's not a. You does have, like, early Nike running shoe. Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:07:27.100 - 00:07:32.180
Where, you know, like what he's even talking about had actually a kind of a hike aspect to it. Right.
Colin True
00:07:32.180 - 00:07:32.900
But it was.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:32.900 - 00:07:37.820
It was a. It was a run hike crossover. I thought it looked. Looks pretty sweet. They should bring that puppy back.
Colin True
00:07:38.060 - 00:07:38.620
I agree.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:38.620 - 00:07:46.180
Yeah, yeah. Just really clean. Not all the bullshit that you see today. Yeah, I thought it was great.
Colin True
00:07:46.580 - 00:08:11.300
I just love the narrative, the continued outdoor narrative that, you know, we talk about a lot about here. But like, I think of like the first sort of soft hiker. Just when I started working retail in the 90s.
It's like, you know, the Merrell Moab and like, the Merrell being like, oh, they're sort of originating this, like, doesn't have to be a big, chunky, heavy boot thing. And it's like, no, actually, dumbass, when you were five years old, this. This other thing was already out there. So.
Thank you, Todd, very much for your email.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:11.540 - 00:08:17.660
So, Todd, thank you for calling us young. That. That was really. That was nice.
Producer Dave
00:08:17.660 - 00:08:20.460
Yeah, that was. That was interesting.
Colin True
00:08:20.460 - 00:08:22.220
Todd, if we're the young guys around here.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:22.700 - 00:08:23.180
Wow.
Producer Dave
00:08:23.180 - 00:08:23.580
Yeah.
Colin True
00:08:23.580 - 00:09:03.560
Yeah, wow, man.
So we also got an email this week from listener Mason Colby, who wrote in to tell us about his new substack, which takes a look at the names of outdoor brands and products. He gave us a shout out in one of the recent posts as well.
Anytime someone is looking at the outdoor industry the way we do here on the Rock Fights, we want to highlight them. And I've linked Mason's substack, which is called. Sorry, I think it's trail names. Yeah, trail names is the name of it. And so go there, check it out.
Thanks for, Mason, for writing in and listening in. I mean, it's the whole thing Dave was about, you know, how do we. Looking at the names of outdoor products and kind of, you know, ranking.
Well, not ranking them, but like, you know, kind of breaking them down a way, which I think is kind of right in our wheelhouse for sure.
Producer Dave
00:09:03.560 - 00:09:15.040
Yeah. Like you said, Colin, we have.
We've spent a lot of time, probably an inordinate amount of time and an unhealthy amount of time talking about names and brand names and are they appropriate? Are they good? Are they bad? Are they evil?
Eoin Comerford
00:09:15.280 - 00:09:15.600
Right.
Producer Dave
00:09:15.600 - 00:09:31.100
The whole. The whole gamut. So anybody who kind of keeping a scorecard is probably good for us, you know, like those that track, like, terrorist groups.
You need somebody out there doing the. Doing the legwork and really making sure we have an easily accessible database of what's gone right and what's gone wrong.
Colin True
00:09:31.100 - 00:09:34.900
We need Mason to start tracking brand names without vowels and see how many are out there.
Producer Dave
00:09:34.900 - 00:09:37.260
You know, ooh, that's a great category.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:37.500 - 00:09:40.540
Or brand names. Brand names that are all lowercase.
Producer Dave
00:09:40.540 - 00:09:41.500
Oh, lowercase.
Colin True
00:09:41.820 - 00:09:44.620
And then bonus category, all lowercase. No vowels.
Producer Dave
00:09:44.990 - 00:09:48.430
No, that's good. That's a subset for sure. Right.
Colin True
00:09:48.750 - 00:10:15.790
All right. If you would like us to read your email here on the Rock Fight, like Owen told you earlier, send us your emails. The.
The address is myrockflightgmail.com. all right. The opening shot on today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Lem Shoes.
As the summer season wraps up, now is a great time to get ready for fall with Lem's from easygoing slip ons and refined leather lace ups, which does sound a little dirty, as Shantae pointed out last week. I gotta. We gotta work on that copy to tough trail ready boots.
Producer Dave
00:10:15.790 - 00:10:16.660
I think it's. I think it'.
Colin True
00:10:18.090 - 00:10:18.810
Sales are up.
Producer Dave
00:10:19.370 - 00:10:21.690
Yeah. Interest is even up.
Colin True
00:10:21.690 - 00:10:24.250
More Lem's offers footwear.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:24.730 - 00:10:29.450
You and Chate, I mean, just. Yeah. I don't know. Dirty minds on the Wednesday podcast.
Colin True
00:10:29.450 - 00:11:02.930
I gotta say thank you, Lemz for every occasion. And their fit is unmatched, everybody. If you've never experienced the fit of a pair of Lems, you know, I just feel kind of sorry for you.
So Lems are built with comfort, durability, and versatility at their core. Their collection is ready to take you wherever the season leads. And with fresh, exciting styles just around the corner.
Be sure to stay tuned to hear what they. What they have coming down the pike.
But in the meantime, head to Lemz Shoes.com right now to get your feet into the best fitting shoe you've ever worn. And I think, oh, and you follow it from last week. You got your Lemz.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:03.090 - 00:11:07.730
I did get my Lem's. Yeah. A trailblazer. And then the. What was the other one? The.
Colin True
00:11:08.130 - 00:11:09.450
The primal Zen, I believe.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:09.450 - 00:11:51.030
Primal Zen.
So I've only tried the trailblazer, but the first thing that was interesting was my wife actually commented positively on a pair of shoes, which is that I wear. I know. That was odd. And then while I was recovering from that My son actually said those look pretty cool too. So, yeah, off to a good start.
That's really weird. He even tried them on to see if he could steal them. But I'm slightly larger footed but no good looking shoe.
Yeah, great fit, nice roomy toe box, but without looking like an orthopedic shoe, like Altra does, at least in my opinion. Yeah, it's a good pair of shoes.
Colin True
00:11:51.030 - 00:12:22.250
Okay, today's opening shot.
According to an article on sgb, a new survey from the University of Michigan shows that US Consumer sentiment unexpectedly declined for the first time since April, given the ongoing tariff turmoil and expectations of increasing inflation. So, Owen, can we just start basing with the basics on this one?
Like when you hear about surveys measuring consumer sentiment, like, what does that actually mean? Like, if I'm an outdoor brand or retailer, is that something I should even be tracking somehow applying that information to my business planning?
I mean, isn't it something that we kind of already know if we're paying.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:22.250 - 00:12:31.010
Attention a little bit? I mean, I would say, first of all, this isn't just some survey, right? And this isn't just some university. This is the University of Michigan.
Colin True
00:12:31.990 - 00:12:35.270
Oh, God, what if it had been from Ohio? What if, you know.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:37.190 - 00:14:46.190
Nobody would care. But no, I mean, this survey has been around since the 50s, right?
And so it really, it is the survey, right, that everyone talks about and they've been doing this for, you know, decades, driven by a detailed interview of at least 600 people. And a lot of them are repeats so that they can compare their answers to before. And really it's to show the overall direction of, of the economy.
And they take all these questions and really it's about how do you feel today versus a year ago? All that kind of stuff. But it really has been shown to be a good predictor of consumer sentiment.
And more importantly, consumer spending, which actually drives two thirds of our gdp, is consumer spending. So it is a pretty good predictor. It predicts recessions. You go back to 2008.
It was tanking in the early part of 2008 before everything really hit the fan in the late part of that year. So people really do keep an eye on this. And then in this context, after the tariffs were announced, it dropped to 52.2 in April and May.
Then it climbed back up to 61.7. So as people said, oh, this tariff thing is no big deal. I guess it's overblown.
There's going to be no price increases, but then plunged back down to 58.6 in August. So Definitely people are listening and I think more importantly is they're not just listening to the news.
But I think what you saw in August was people actually seeing it in the prices that they're paying for stuff for the first time. And for a comparison, it was 67.9, so 58.6 this August, 67.9 last August. So a big year over year drop.
The interesting thing is it peaked recently or the recent peak was a 74 in December. So right after the election, everything was like, oh, it's going to be great. The Trump term. Trump is the master economist, whatever, whatever.
And now people are like, oh, shit, reality has set in. This guy doesn't have it.
Colin True
00:14:48.270 - 00:14:57.050
So speaking of that, regarding the survey itself, so the article states that consumer sentiment dropped unexpectedly. I mean, given everything going on, doesn't it kind of stand the reason that this was a little expected?
Eoin Comerford
00:14:58.010 - 00:14:59.410
Right. Well, no, right.
Producer Dave
00:14:59.410 - 00:15:00.330
That's what I think too.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:00.650 - 00:15:01.530
Unexpectedly.
Colin True
00:15:01.530 - 00:15:05.850
Like, I don't know. Sounds like we talk about, maybe we just talk about it too much on our podcast.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:06.170 - 00:15:50.510
I think there's a tendency among most economists to somewhat, I don't know, at times shrug off the consumer and just kind of. They don't know. They don't know what they're doing. Right.
And the fact that the consumer had bounced back up pretty quickly after the initial drop and the fact that the stock market, because some people view the stock market as another proxy for the economy and consumer sentiment. So the fact that the stock market was still at record highs, but now consumer sentiment's taken a big dip. That I think was the big disconnect.
Like, oh, shit, what is going on here? And again, I think it is actually the consumers are going, oh, no, this tariff thing, we're getting it now. It's real.
It just didn't come right away, but it's coming and it's going to be bad.
Producer Dave
00:15:52.250 - 00:15:57.370
You put all these together, everything's about the tariff, tariff, tariff, but the job market itself.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:57.850 - 00:15:58.210
Right.
Producer Dave
00:15:58.210 - 00:16:29.830
I guess this is something too that just kind of, it's like we've lost 300,000 federal jobs. That's just federal jobs. And they tend to be, you know, white collar and in a lot of the departments and spend a lot of time outside, frankly.
And then you're talking, then we have just the layoffs going on in all these other sectors. It's just, I feel like there's a little bit of just ignoring the big, the thing going on that's affecting everyone and we just.
It's a tariff, but it's like, no it's more than that.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:29.830 - 00:17:11.640
I think that's a very, very fair point, Dave, that there's a lot going on.
I think AI is a huge source of stress for people as to what that's doing because it really is attacking the underpinnings of societies and careers and all sorts of things.
You've got new college graduates that are facing probably the worst market for new college graduates in years, some of it because AI is basically taking all of those jobs that used to be done by the grunt work that the new college graduates would go in to get their feet wet. And then you've got other areas that are being completely replaced by AI. So it is a combination agreed of more than tariffs.
It's tariffs, it's the economy, it's unemployment. It's just the overall level of uncertainty that we have today.
Colin True
00:17:11.720 - 00:17:17.610
All right, so same thing I always ask you. You're sitting back in your chair, CEO of Moose Jah. You're looking at this. What do you do?
Eoin Comerford
00:17:17.610 - 00:17:44.930
Well, I'm going to be careful and we'll get to it later. I'm going to be careful in terms of my preseason orders.
I'm also probably going to be cutting costs and sort of trying to get more of a hardened balance sheet, so to speak, in terms of having cash because you don't want to. In an ideal world, you're prepared before the bad things happen.
Because if you start cutting after the bad things happen, typically it's much, much worse. All right.
Colin True
00:17:44.930 - 00:18:51.490
So yes, stay tuned for part two of this conversation coming up in the main topic of show, because that's what's coming up next. Good teaser. Next up, we have to talk about gravel running shoes, guys.
All right, a year ago, at least a year ago, Justin Hausman and I responded to some brand, I forget who it was, starting to talk about a new category of gravel running.
Last month, Owen and I talked about seeing Craft's lineup of gravel shoes at the Outdoor Market Alliance Media show, which they said was more of an internal designation, not like something they weren't looking for retailers to add a category. But this week, Amer Sports CEO James Zhang spoke about Salomon's recently launched gravel line.
And if you visit Salomon's website, you can see the category for yourself. They're calling them gravel shoes. I want to talk about gravel, but I want to approach this from two points of view.
First up, is this sustainable for running?
And second, from a retailer perspective, do we need or want an entirely new header on the footwear wall between road and trail that is a gravel specific designation.
Dave, when you look at running from a brand and creative point of view, do you get excited about the prospects of growing the category this way or does it simply divide resources that could be applied to trail running, which as we all know is exploding right now?
Producer Dave
00:18:51.490 - 00:19:15.470
I think it's the same thing, Colin. I think this is a, a distinction in search of a reason.
Now, from a storytelling perspective, the idea that you are able to talk about a surface as a, as an activity viscerally like, I can certainly hear the sound of the footsteps on the gravel. Crunch, crunch.
Colin True
00:19:15.630 - 00:19:19.150
So different from a tram too. So it's just so radically different.
Producer Dave
00:19:19.670 - 00:19:29.150
Sure, that's definitely more of a thud, Colin. I mean, come on, can't you get that? But, but it gives you a sense to change up your environment. So you are kind of.
But you are telling the same stories, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:19:29.150 - 00:19:29.630
For sure.
Producer Dave
00:19:29.630 - 00:19:46.970
But so from that, I like that. But from a product perspective, I mean, it is silly. I have a gravel shoe, I have a trail shoe.
I have a road shoe, I have a day shoe, I have a night shoe. I have my hybrid gravel and trail, which is a little bit of dirt, a little bit of rock. Right.
So it's like, you know, it does get a little bit wacky when you think about it that way.
Colin True
00:19:46.970 - 00:19:52.890
You made me think of the creatives. Now it's like, how am I going to show this? Okay, look at all these old trail running videos. Well, that kind of looks like a gravel trail.
Producer Dave
00:19:53.050 - 00:20:00.610
Is that smooth river rocks? Are they kind of more of a sharper, kind of gravelly? I can't really get that. What's my inspiration?
Colin True
00:20:00.610 - 00:20:17.990
I don't want to take this seriously, but I mean, it's like Solomon. And this is not us taking another jab at Solomon, which we know we have fun doing at our. Because of our own missteps earlier this year.
But it's also like, man, it's a category. They're putting it on their website as a category. Like that says to me that they're going to say to retailers, you also should have a category.
Category.
Producer Dave
00:20:18.470 - 00:20:22.550
Is it a category or is it just a couple shoes that we call gravel?
Colin True
00:20:22.950 - 00:20:25.270
That's probably what it will amount to being.
Producer Dave
00:20:25.990 - 00:20:31.190
Look at the voiceover opportunities, Colin. I mean, really, you could really segment this. This is pretty cool.
Colin True
00:20:31.350 - 00:20:40.390
Sometimes you don't want to ride on a trail, run on a trail in a world. In a world where sometimes you're on a trail that's a little smoother than other trails.
Producer Dave
00:20:40.710 - 00:20:43.350
Well, well, you have to run smooth, run Smooth.
Colin True
00:20:43.850 - 00:20:44.570
There's the tagline.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:44.570 - 00:20:45.130
Smooth.
Producer Dave
00:20:45.210 - 00:20:45.850
There you go.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:45.850 - 00:21:01.850
I think each pair should come with a little set of calipers. And so you go out on the road and then you see, okay, is that a pebble or is it a piece of gravel?
If it's more than you're going to change from the gravel to the trail running shoe. And then if there's no gravel and.
Colin True
00:21:01.850 - 00:21:15.910
You all have to. You run with a running vest now. So you have your trail running shoes with you. And if the trail changes, you Change your shoes 100%.
And then eventually we'll have brands who come out with, like, removable outsoles. And you can put on the gravel outsole with the trail outsole. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:15.990 - 00:21:18.510
Kind of. Kind of like backcountry skiing. Yeah. You get the skin.
Colin True
00:21:18.510 - 00:21:19.190
It's a skin.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:19.350 - 00:21:21.270
Okay. Got it. Love it. Yeah.
Colin True
00:21:21.510 - 00:21:28.950
So, all kidding aside, Owen, from a retailer perspective, like, would you embrace this and lean into it, or is this just a trend that's probably going to fizzle out at some point?
Eoin Comerford
00:21:29.430 - 00:22:21.380
Sure. I mean, if it helps me sell more shoes, I am all over it. Bring it, baby. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a category that in some ways a. It gives.
If I'm truly an outdoor retailer, it's a category that gives me a little bit more permission to stock those shoes as opposed to a pure, pure road running shoe. So that helps. Although, quite frankly, that hasn't stopped a lot of outdoor retailers from stocking pure, pure road running shoes.
But, yeah, I mean, I think if they sell, I would sell them. It's also potentially a way to sell a consumer that just bought the trail running shoes. Well, okay, now those are for the trail.
Okay, but how are you going to get to the trail? Okay, now you're gonna need this other pair just to get to the trail. And then, in fact.
And then here's these road running shoes to get you to the gravel before you get to the trail. So I'm gonna sell you three pairs of shoes for one. It's gonna be great.
Colin True
00:22:21.860 - 00:22:40.990
I remember when Justin and I did talk about that. Cause he was even thinking, like, God, like, you know, sometimes I gotta run it. Run the road to the trailer. Can I.
Can I do that in my trail running shoes? And like, these little, like, thoughts that kind of get embedded in your head that we obsess over at times.
Like, the trauma that you're creating for the runners out there by adding more things is not okay. Running brands scale it back.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:41.550 - 00:23:03.310
I think it does make sense, though, for Salomon, because obviously Their core DNA is trail running. They would love to get more of that sweet, sweet road running money. Right. Bigger category.
So this kind of gives them that on ramp, so to speak, from trail to road. I think they do sell road running shoes today, but this gives them a little bit more of a way to get there.
Producer Dave
00:23:04.030 - 00:23:10.260
That's. You're right. It's a transition. In a sense. Gravel is like the road unfinished. I think this is.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:10.810 - 00:23:12.250
That's a novel sprites itself.
Producer Dave
00:23:12.570 - 00:23:16.090
Right? It does. That's gravel running the road unfinished.
Colin True
00:23:16.090 - 00:24:07.200
Boy. Okay, well, staying in the footwear world. So it was an interesting week for vans.
Starting last week on, on this podcast where I mentioned that my kids are currently in a vans or lame phase. Followed by a post on hypebeast's Instagram of the vans future clog.
And then lastly on Thursday of last week, Footwear News reported that Vans and all vulcanized rubber footwear brands are poised for a comeback based on the hype around Vans old school souvenir, a shoe that was Inspired by an 11 year old messenger bag. The interest in that shoe showing that those who tracked the footwear space at vulcanized rubber kicks could soon be back in style.
So, Dave, weird week for vans where on one hand you have the future clog, which we both believe is maybe the wrong way to go for a Vans clog. And then you also have the old school souvenir, which feels right in the bullseye for probably what you'd want from vans.
What are your impressions of where Vans is as we sit here in August 2025? I mean, do you agree with Footwear News that a resurgence is imminent?
Producer Dave
00:24:07.830 - 00:24:26.630
Well, sure. You wait a, wait a few months and you're gonna get a re. Imminent of every style that goes up and back.
You know, I, I kind of see vulcanized and boots as kind of the kind of polar opposite pieces. And so they tend to balance each other out. When one is up, the other's down. And so I think that's. Sure. I could say sure.
Colin True
00:24:28.390 - 00:24:39.650
What'd you think? What'd you think of the clog? It's sitting right there for them. Yeah, just do a can like a canvas, a black and white checkered canvas clog.
You know, it's just like make a clog out of the shoes everybody loves.
Producer Dave
00:24:40.050 - 00:24:51.330
You know, and they have pretty much mined all of their original silhouettes, the standards, the, the skate highs, the half cabs. They've put in pretty much every type of shoe you can.
Colin True
00:24:51.330 - 00:24:51.770
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:24:51.770 - 00:25:19.580
You know, entitled to mine that. So. Yeah, why not one more With a. If you want a. If you want a comfy, cushy, you know, mushy clog, sure, like no problem.
But yeah, it just, it doesn't seem, it doesn't feel to me vans, you know, but they've been pushing a lot of. Some of it good, some of it bad. They've been pushing a lot of boundaries for a while.
I mean they certainly made a foray into the mountain space a little bit with some mixed results. But yeah, that one just didn't feel right.
Colin True
00:25:19.740 - 00:25:28.380
You know, Owen, for the people who, you know, a little bit gatekeepy again around the outdoors, I mean, should we even be talking about vans on an outdoor podcast that aims for the head?
Eoin Comerford
00:25:28.540 - 00:25:55.720
It's a fair question because the core vans line is definitely fashion. I mean let's be honest here. But we sold vans at Moose Jaw. We had their snowboard boots.
You know, they do have a BMX line but which is basically really kind of sort of a redo of their skating pieces. And then they used to have hiking line. I went looking for it and I couldn't really find it. So is that.
Colin True
00:25:55.720 - 00:25:58.960
I thought they released one like last year. Wasn't there a recent release of hiking shoes?
Producer Dave
00:25:58.960 - 00:27:57.090
They still have. I don't know if it's a full on collection mte. So that's the, that's kind of the outdoorsy side. The cross path is definitely.
And the crestline are kind of the two main styles and they have those in kind of regular, extra duty, waterproof, insulated. There's even a Gore Tex version, you know, so they've definitely played in that.
And again, I think visually they look great if you, you know, they haven't had great success with them. A lot of close out to that stuff, but it's one of those where it might take a while to push that in there.
And they did that in the late 90s, you know, again kind of, you know, marrying the BMX into some trail but you know, never enough to get into sponsorships. Snowboarding obviously was really the first kind of way to get into to boots which again I think they've cut up and down success and those.
I mean they started snowboarding boots in the early night. I mean they were kind of very early to that.
I was kind of looking at some of that and, and just kind of remembering, remembering way back when the first, the first signature snowboard boots with athletes 1997 with Jamie Lynn, Sean Palmer and Cersei Wallace were the first signature boots to that. And those really again kind of brought the classic Vans feel to boots.
And I think they've always, ever since then, have seen the ability to take that silhouette and bring it into other mountain or trail type of things. So it's still there. I just don't know how much they're pushing to it. And do you.
Like you said, the fashion has gone the core of the line, which kills me because I would still hope and pray that the core of the line is skateboarding. Right. And that, you know, that should be still the performance aspect of skate shoes. It's not all about the vulcanized kind of piece.
There's definitely technology that belongs in that kind of stuff. So I hope that they, you know, that that sport has changed and that whole industry has changed, but it's still, to me, the center of their being.
Even, even before it was recognized as an action sport, you know, that was such the pure adoption of a subculture.
Colin True
00:27:57.090 - 00:28:24.790
And it came out of surfing, by the way. It was people trying to like mimic surfing on land.
And I think, you know, that, you know, go back to Todd's email at the beginning of this episode, right? Nikes inner dipping their toes in the hiking water in 1980. I just like, you know, it absolutely belongs in an outdoor store.
For my perspective, for us to talk about it, I think it's relevant. You sold them at Moose Jaw?
If I live in a town, I have a great skate park and I don't care if I'm a backpacking store, you could justify selling some, you know, some decks and some trucks and some vans. Like, it would totally make sense as a part assortment.
Producer Dave
00:28:24.870 - 00:28:35.590
I'm looking at a silhouette of the cross path right here. And let me say, if you put anybody else's brand on it, that's like from the outdoor native space, you're not going to question it at all.
It's a good looking shoe.
Colin True
00:28:36.390 - 00:29:03.280
Are you guys ready for the lightning round? First up, hiker core may be dead, but a new trend is just getting started because angler core is here.
The fisherman aesthetic trend has arrived with inspired pieces based off of waders and cropped vests with lots of pockets. So, Owen, how high is the angler corps ceiling? Are we gonna see you at trade shows this fall wearing your new fishing vest?
Eoin Comerford
00:29:05.040 - 00:29:51.830
No, no, hey, I, I earned my outdoorsy look honestly through, through industry pro deals. So no, I, I will not be. You're not gonna see me in, in an angling vest. But I, I don't know. I.
This is just like the illogical conclusion or extension of the lumber sexual. I don't remember that one. Oh, of course, core, all of that, which is basically just urban people wanting to appear connected to nature.
And I'm not going to blame it for that. Everybody, you should want to compare, want to appear connected to nature or actually, you know what, connect with nature. That's also a good option.
But these sorts of people and trends have driven our business way more than maybe we'd even want to admit. So hey, I'm all for it. Go for it.
Producer Dave
00:29:51.830 - 00:30:21.000
Did you say illogical? Illogical. Conclusion. I disagree. Anytime you're talking that many pockets in one place, you have got some function going on.
I mean, I think it's the most actually logical of all those adoptions. I mean, look, a puffy jacket in a cold northeastern city totally makes sense.
But I'm just saying if you can cram 12, 24 pockets into one space, you're basically a walking pharmacy. You can just pour little, little pieces everywhere. It's fantastic.
Colin True
00:30:21.000 - 00:30:27.600
All right. The only thing that one of you said that wasn't honest was Owen. He didn't pay anything. He got those deals for free.
Let's be honest, there was no pro deals.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:28.160 - 00:30:28.800
That's right.
Colin True
00:30:28.960 - 00:30:56.730
By the way, so did the rest of us. All right? Right.
All right, next up, a new gallery poll is reporting that alcohol consumption in the US has hit a 50 year low with 53% of America Americans now seeing moderate drinking as bad for your health. Dave. Outdoor brands have been touting their trail to bar products for more than a decade now.
But this new study makes that phrase risky to alcohol adverse consumers. What will be the new cliche to prove a button down shirt can perform but also be kind of stylish?
Producer Dave
00:30:58.010 - 00:31:04.350
We put the fun in fentanyl. Like, I don't know, like what are you gonna do?
Colin True
00:31:07.550 - 00:31:09.390
As long as there's alliteration, it's acceptable.
Producer Dave
00:31:09.390 - 00:31:32.120
I think it's totally, it doesn't have to actually work. I mean, what this is really saying is that the temperance movement is winning.
And they may have started in the 19th century with our, you know, with our buckskin suits at that same time. They had a little victory in the 20s, we were able to beat it back, but now it looks like it's gonna win.
Colin True
00:31:32.520 - 00:31:51.000
Alright, last one.
The Sports and Fitness Industry association recently issued a mid year report stating that 22.9% of Americans were entirely inactive during the first half of 2025. Oh, and in years past I would have assumed that these 23% of inactive people were probably getting wasted.
But if no one is drinking anymore, what the hell were these inactive people doing.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:52.200 - 00:32:06.820
I think, unfortunately, they have let the tech industry take over their lives.
So they're either doom scrolling on their phones, they're playing video games, they're binging squid game, or worst of all, having deep and meaningful conversations with ChatGPT.
Colin True
00:32:08.100 - 00:32:10.340
Yeah, don't call out Dave like that.
Producer Dave
00:32:14.740 - 00:32:17.980
Yeah, I give chat GPT advice, Colin.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:17.980 - 00:32:19.940
Oh, let's just be clear. Okay.
Colin True
00:32:20.740 - 00:32:37.760
Today's main event on the Rock fight was presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking. And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long, including the following.
Number one, a dorky fanny pack becomes a cool hip pack if you're hiking with it. Do you wear it over your shoulder? How do we feel about the overall shoulder?
Eoin Comerford
00:32:37.760 - 00:32:41.640
You can go sling. Yeah, that's. That's really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:32:41.640 - 00:32:50.240
That seems like I'm not gonna weigh in. I'm too old to weigh in on that one. Number two, hiking is the only time you can use trekking poles in public without people looking at you funny.
Producer Dave
00:32:50.240 - 00:32:51.520
I'm sure that's true.
Colin True
00:32:51.520 - 00:32:54.160
Nordic walkers in 2006 would take exception to that.
Producer Dave
00:32:54.560 - 00:32:56.560
I'm just not sure either of those are true.
Colin True
00:32:58.990 - 00:33:02.430
Number three, any walk can be called a hike if you're wearing the right boots.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:02.910 - 00:33:03.590
There you go.
Colin True
00:33:03.590 - 00:33:58.760
That's true. Yeah. Number four, especially if those boots are a pair of Oboz Highlight mid waterproof boots.
Oboz Highlight is rooted in the spirit of Highlight Canyon.
Designed for lasting comfort and made with recycled and bio based materials, the high Alite collection is designed to support your stride, whether that's out on rocky switchbacks or wandering closer to home. And this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana.
Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz. Love hiking. All right, for our main topic today, fall selling season right around the corner. Like we were talking about earlier.
And Owen, this week on LinkedIn, you put up a post about the state of preseason orders. Now, they appear to be trending more conservatively.
So you asked industry retailers, reps and brands to weigh in with what they're observing as they are looking to book orders for fall 26. You, of course, received a number of responses. Before we get into the reactions, why don't you give us the background here?
What were you observing in the marketplace that led to this post?
Eoin Comerford
00:33:59.990 - 00:34:58.920
Really? It's actually that right now we're wrapping up spring summer 26 order writing. So theoretically done Right.
And I'm just hearing from a lot of brands and retailers that the retailers are really holding back on preseason order levels and they're really citing just all of this uncertainty.
We've talked about tariffs and consumer confidence, et cetera, and they're worried about what will that do to fall sales on top of the fact that current sales are actually pretty soft too.
And really those retailers, they remember the inventory glut of 22 into 23 when they really got stuck holding the baby on that one and they do not want to be in that position again. So really, they're basically saying, hey, brands, I'm going to push that inventory risk to you.
I'm hoping that sales will still be great, but I'm just going to what we call in the industry, Chase. Right. Chase inventory and place ASAP orders or in season orders as I need them, rather than do it all up front.
Colin True
00:34:58.920 - 00:35:00.520
So what were some of the responses you got?
Eoin Comerford
00:35:00.600 - 00:35:05.879
Well, actually, probably my favorite retail response was from Todd Frank. Again. Todd Frank.
Colin True
00:35:05.879 - 00:35:08.440
This is the Todd Franken. Lots of love on the pod.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:08.760 - 00:35:12.360
We should have him on the pod. I mean, he is the new board chair for goa.
Colin True
00:35:12.680 - 00:35:13.200
That's true.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:13.200 - 00:36:11.590
Yeah. Yeah. So we should have Todd on. But his was.
His response was my own line is when I show up and sit down, I reach down and pull a wooden box of risk out of my bag. We spend the next hour pushing it around the table. Us pushing risk at vendors ASAP and them pushing risk at us preseason.
We try to find a place where we can both live with it. It's a balance for me. Some vendors who behave well in D2C, I'm willing to take a much larger risk.
Crappy D2C management, very low pre season, regardless of the deal. So just a really interesting comment.
And that actually, I think summed up the retailer perspective a lot, which is, hey, it's not all things for all people. If I'm cutting pre seasons, some I'm going to keep exactly the same. Others I'm going to cut way back. And it's really a brand by brand discussion.
And then on the brand side, friend of the pod, Andrew Gibbs Dabney from Lives in wrote a novel. It was like.
Colin True
00:36:13.430 - 00:36:16.070
But at the prepping for his next appearance on BBC.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:16.550 - 00:36:18.310
Oh, right. Yes, exactly.
Colin True
00:36:18.310 - 00:36:19.670
He's got to get that BBC money.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:20.130 - 00:36:30.610
Mm, that's sweet. BBC money. Yeah. I was just talking to Andrew the other day. He's like, why can't I get this kind of exposure in a market where I sell my product?
Colin True
00:36:32.050 - 00:36:35.090
Everyone's like, hey, where can I get your stuff? You can't get it here. Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:36.210 - 00:36:38.370
Maybe they should launch in England. I don't know.
Colin True
00:36:38.370 - 00:36:40.530
Go on Fox News. That's what you need to do, Andrew.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:40.610 - 00:37:20.720
Oh, there we go.
Quoting sort of the core of Andrew's novel, he said, when pre seasons are reduced with an expectation of similar sales to previous periods, then the brands don't have clarity to forecast and purchase accurately. This leads to brands making to sell and doing more of the buy as guesswork.
If a brand forecasts incorrectly, the extra stock is concentrated in one location with one customer base, leading to an inefficient process in finding customers for those products. Ergo, closeouts and liquidation.
Ultimately, retailers reducing pre season ordering in favor of chasing ASAPs will lead to more waste in the system and more discounting down the line.
Colin True
00:37:21.750 - 00:37:24.950
Dave, you see Ergo, in a statement you take it more or less seriously.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:25.110 - 00:37:30.870
I think it Ergo, that's a great question. I don't know.
Producer Dave
00:37:33.190 - 00:37:47.350
I would say before the matrix I would have taken it less seriously. But after the matrix, it's really an important part of any kind of diatribe or discussion of how the process and systems work.
You would need to use Ergo.
Colin True
00:37:47.830 - 00:37:55.490
But look, all kidding aside, I mean, Andrew's point is very valid. It kind of breaks it down from, especially from a small band perspective of what their day to day life is like. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:55.730 - 00:38:35.660
Well, the other issue from a small brand perspective is the smaller the brand, it's sort of ironic, but the smaller brand, the more they have to put down in terms of the deposit before the order is even placed. Upwards of 50% of the inventory. Right.
So they're putting all this money down way in advance just to get the product made, then they've got to pay for it to get it on a ship.
Okay, with pre seasons, at least when they get it here, typically they're getting it right at the door to the brands and then hopefully within 30 days they get paid. They're getting paid on the early side of the season. If it all goes to asaps, it might be months before they're getting paid.
And it really stretches out that sort of inventory to cash cycle, which really is a big deal for emerging brands.
Colin True
00:38:35.740 - 00:38:38.220
So what else did you hear from the folks on this thread?
Eoin Comerford
00:38:39.100 - 00:39:27.540
Caleb Nixon, who was previously a senior exec with Sea to Summit in Australia, he actually kind of came in with a bit of a contrarian view, which I thought was interesting.
He, he doesn't like preseasons, didn't like them, and actually sort of stayed away from them because a, they ate into margins because you're incentivizing the retailer to buy it pre seasons. Right. And oh by the way, the retailers can cancel those pre seasons at any time right up until delivery which can create all sorts of problems. Right.
But even if they don't cancel, then you've got this big delivery pressure to get it there in time otherwise you get in trouble. And so you're air freighting stuff in and doing all kinds of stuff.
And finally it can create sort of these adversarial relationships between retailer and brand. So it was interesting to get that other side. Like okay, maybe not all brands view preseasons as the best thing on the planet.
Colin True
00:39:27.620 - 00:39:35.140
So I mean Owen, and all this with any kind of concrete conclusions. Also, when you kind of go back to our first story, right, about kind of consumer sentiment, like how does this all kind of tie together?
Eoin Comerford
00:39:35.220 - 00:40:11.730
I think ultimately in terms of the whole preseason part of does come down to balance and partnership between retailer and brand.
And, and really the brands that are the better partners, those that do less DTC discounting, that have better spend in terms of top of the funnel demand generation for product that do deliver on time. Those brands are not going to see big cuts through the D2C orders. Right.
It's the other brands that are in trouble where maybe they're not core, they're doing some discounting, they've done some other things in the past. Those are the ones. I think they're going to struggle.
Colin True
00:40:13.000 - 00:40:53.650
How do you do? I mean, because there are some brands who probably have to be their business.
They're tied into almost discounting on D2C I was looking at a legacy brand. We don't talk a lot. Sarah Design's website this morning just because I happen to be doing some research on something and it's like 50% off, 25% off.
And I understand it's maybe end of the season but I kind of get the impression not to call you out, Sierra, but this is probably the kind of world you're living in now. How do you even break out of that?
We hear that from a lot of brands who've built this business of well, we can't stay in business if we don't sell these products and we can't sell these products unless they are massively discounted almost all the time. You have to draw a line in the sand and just go for it and cross your fingers that it works out.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:55.090 - 00:42:42.940
I think unfortunately a lot of brands are in this overproduction mode where they're basically trying to push a rope. They're producing too much stuff to sell through at the price that they need to sell through it at. So they have to discount.
I mean, that's just the end of the game. Or they don't have an effective demand generation piece at the top of the funnel. All of their marketing is at the bottom of the funnel.
So they're just chasing the same customer that the retailer is chasing and it just doesn't work. Right.
I mean you look at the, on runnings of the world or the Hokas or the whatever, the folks that are generating that big demand, they don't have a problem. Right. It's the folks that are scrapping for that last, last bottom of the funnel sale that are in trouble. And it takes, I think one of two things.
It takes either a somebody within the brand to say, hold on, we need to take a step back here from an inventory perspective and cut way back, cut back to what we can actually support and then rebuild from there. Which is really hard to do and really hard to get buy in to do that from the ownership or the PE firm or whatever. Right.
That's some tough love right there.
The other aspect is, you know, saying, hey, listen, we're going to take our marketing budget and Instead of being 10% top of the funnel, 90% bottom of the funnel, we're going to go 70, 30 the other way. And guess what? Sales are going to suck for like 12 months. Right. @ least. Right. While we, while we recalibrate that and start to refill the funnel.
But then things will, you know, things will be better ahead. And that's, that's what happened with them with New Balance. Actually. New Balance went through that. It was 18 months of sales just down the toilet.
And then, but they just invest and invest and invest on top of the funnel and then it turned around. So it takes really tough decisions and discipline to make it happen.
Colin True
00:42:43.580 - 00:43:23.410
I think you just went for the whole zombie brand conversation we've had was pretty subjective when we first started talking about it. It's like, oh, a brand that used to be relevant, that isn't as relevant and kind of like you know it when you see it kind of thing.
I think you just described the formula of what an actual zombie brand is. Right.
Because if all you're doing is discounting to stay in business, but you're never going to break free of that cycle, that's kind of what you've turned into at that point.
Because to your point, retailers aren't going to trust you to go and do something Meaningful in that arena at this point, you're like, well, okay, if we dial back, we're going to lose X amount of revenue, which means we can't operate anymore. But you're not really making any money because you're sacrificing all of your margin to discount it all.
I mean, that's really what a zombie brand is at the end of the day, isn't it?
Eoin Comerford
00:43:23.810 - 00:43:57.630
Right. Because the discounting undercuts everything. It undercuts your pricing discipline, it undercuts your value in the consumer's eyes.
It absolutely undercuts your value from a retailer's perspective.
If they've got to compete against the D2C brand, that's discounting or breaking their own map policies, or you name it, it's a race to the bottom or selling it at Costco. I mean, whatever. Right? I mean, it's a. Yeah.
And it just, it comes from chasing top line sales at all costs and not supporting it with the demand generation to support those sales.
Chris DeMakes
00:43:59.960 - 00:44:01.960
It's time for a parting shot.
Colin True
00:44:03.640 - 00:44:05.280
All right, so for today, for the parting shot.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:05.280 - 00:44:30.000
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Colin, before you get into whatever you were going to ramble on about, I think, as you know, I was a little upset about not being part of the 90s music playlist. And clearly, clearly there were multiple bands that were left out. So I have actually developed my own 90s playlist.
And oh, by the way, you're kicking.
Colin True
00:44:30.000 - 00:44:31.220
In the door with your own playlist.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:31.220 - 00:44:39.340
I'm kicking their own playlist. And I want to go. I think we do another vote. Okay, Playlist versus playlist. Let's see who wins.
Colin True
00:44:39.340 - 00:44:42.900
Oh, God. We're going to run another poll. We didn't do a poll with the playlist. You want us to put up a poll?
Eoin Comerford
00:44:42.900 - 00:44:44.820
I do, because I know I'm going to kick your ass.
Colin True
00:44:44.980 - 00:44:53.540
Okay, all right, all right. Well, hold on. The whole point of the playlist, so, like, you needed to have like, what's. What are you listening?
What are you doing while you're doing your, like, what's the context of listening to this playlist?
Eoin Comerford
00:44:55.060 - 00:45:03.240
No, there was no. The only context was let's get as many bands on this playlist that Colin and co totally forgot about.
Colin True
00:45:03.240 - 00:45:06.800
That was like, I'm on a mountain bike ride. This is what I want to listen to.
Producer Dave
00:45:06.800 - 00:45:12.160
I think if the answer is anything other than not caring, then it's not a 90s playlist.
Colin True
00:45:12.160 - 00:45:18.640
You know what, actually this is a good point. This is the spite playlist, which is a very 90s sentiment. So that's exactly right.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:19.120 - 00:45:19.880
So, speaking of.
Colin True
00:45:19.880 - 00:45:20.600
All right, what do you got?
Eoin Comerford
00:45:20.600 - 00:45:25.280
Okay, speaking of spite, I'm starting off with Head Like a Hole by Nine Inch Nails.
Colin True
00:45:25.840 - 00:45:26.320
All right.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:26.320 - 00:45:41.660
I mean, if ever there was a CD scene just filled with venom, like from. From head like a hole to ring finger. I mean, just. Ah, beautiful. Right? So. So that's 1990. Then we're going to roll into 91. Okay.
Colin True
00:45:41.660 - 00:45:41.900
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:41.900 - 00:45:56.580
And I'm pretty sure all of these bands, as amazing as they are, didn't make any of your playlists, just FYI. Okay, so Nine Inch Nails. So my second one is Black by Pearl Jam. So obviously off of doing Black isn't.
Colin True
00:45:56.580 - 00:45:59.900
Like an outdoorsy song. You can't be out there riding around your mouth.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:01.570 - 00:46:04.770
Oh, Lauryn Hill is an outdoorsy song. I mean, what are you talking about?
Colin True
00:46:04.850 - 00:46:10.130
Dave and Shantae. I mean, come on. I can't speak. I mean, sorry. Not Dave. Sorry, Doug. Doug. Sorry. Doug and Shantae.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:10.210 - 00:46:10.770
Sorry.
Colin True
00:46:10.770 - 00:46:15.890
Too many D names. So I did mention Pearl Jam and I did mention Nine Inch Nails, but keep going.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:15.890 - 00:46:18.210
Okay. All right. But you didn't pick them, though.
Colin True
00:46:18.210 - 00:46:19.090
I didn't pick them.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:19.170 - 00:46:25.810
Okay, so, yeah. So Black Bay, Pearl jam, off of 10, obviously amazing album. Just great album.
Colin True
00:46:25.890 - 00:46:26.850
One of my all time favorites.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:26.850 - 00:46:34.140
Even Flo Jeremy. I mean, just. Right. But Black would be my choice there for that one. 1 92. Killing in the Name, Rage against the Machine.
Colin True
00:46:34.140 - 00:46:37.140
Okay, that was an. I considered that one for that.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:37.140 - 00:46:50.100
Is that. That I listened to that cd, like on repeat. That was just. Yeah. And honorable mention to Someone to Shove by Soul Asylum, by the way, for 92.
But they just didn't quite make the list.
Colin True
00:46:51.060 - 00:46:51.860
Contrast there.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:51.940 - 00:47:03.750
Yeah. Well, hey, you know, hey, the mosh pit was the place to be back in the day. Okay. 93, Creep by Radiohead. Okay.
Colin True
00:47:03.750 - 00:47:06.870
Radiohead made the list. The dog had just. They had just by.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:06.870 - 00:47:16.230
Okay, fine. All right. Okay, well, we'll leave that one then. 94 actually was. There were so many good bands at the beginning, it got little thin towards the end.
Colin True
00:47:16.630 - 00:47:17.630
That was my experience too.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:17.630 - 00:47:23.990
Right. Yeah. So I actually went with Interstate love song by Stp Stone Copilot.
Colin True
00:47:23.990 - 00:47:24.670
I love that song.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:24.670 - 00:47:44.930
Rip Scott. So just. Yeah. Another one of those CDs to listen to on Repeat.
The Honorable mention there for that year, and this was a tough choice was Soundgarden, Black Hole Sun. Super Unknown. Just an Amazing, amazing CD. 95. I don't think you guys mentioned Green Day.
Colin True
00:47:45.250 - 00:47:46.690
Green Day did not get a mention here.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:46.690 - 00:47:50.690
Right. Okay. When I come around from Dookie, another CD that Was just.
Colin True
00:47:50.690 - 00:47:52.210
That's kind of a chalk pick, but okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:52.210 - 00:47:57.490
Oh, whoa. Please. Okay, fine. Chalk pick. What the fuck does that mean?
Colin True
00:47:59.250 - 00:48:04.590
Of course, like, one of the most overplayed songs in the 90s. Like, you know, can't have that on the playlist. That's such a.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:04.590 - 00:48:07.110
Like, you know, Basket Case, welcome to Paradise.
Colin True
00:48:07.110 - 00:48:09.790
I go Basket Case. Probably welcome to paradise would be good.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:09.790 - 00:48:11.630
Yeah, Basket Case, actually. Probably. But okay.
Colin True
00:48:11.630 - 00:48:13.030
But they deserve to mention. You're right.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:13.030 - 00:48:31.540
Yeah. I think actually the problem was that actually I wanted to do welcome to paradise, but it was. I think that one came out in 94, so I had. I had to.
I had work to do. Fit it all in. Right. And that comes up later. You'll see again. So 96, what I got by Sublime. I know you're a hater. Apparently. I'm Shanti.
Colin True
00:48:31.540 - 00:48:38.420
Shantae was a hater. I like. That's one of my. What I got is the remix or the. Or the studio. I like the remix one.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:39.220 - 00:48:54.420
Well, actually, again, that's another one where the CD was more than the individual song. Like Doing Time is actually probably my favorite song on that album. Or April 29, 1992 is another just awesome song.
Colin True
00:48:54.420 - 00:49:01.240
I'm trying to picture young Owen listening to Rage Against Machine and Sublime. Like zipping around in your Corolla or whatever. You're driving Ivan back in the day.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:01.240 - 00:49:35.700
Eagle Talon, tsi, Turbo Baby. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then actually, Honorable Mention, it would. Would be Oasis, so a little bit softer from that same year.
And that's kind of also Shout out to. I actually listened to a lot of the sort of the Brit pop type. Sure.
So like, you know, Stone Roses, Charlatans, James, et cetera, but none of them actually made it to the top of the list. Okay, so 97. All right. So to prove I have a softer side, I was getting married at the time at Criminal by Fiona Apple.
Colin True
00:49:37.060 - 00:49:38.220
Okay, that's a good song.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:38.220 - 00:50:04.470
Yeah, that is a good video, too. Again, that CD title, just Repeat. Just loved every song on it. Okay, getting into 98, this is where it starts to get a little thin.
And so I have to admit I sort of stacked things here to where I picked bands that. I actually preferred their stuff earlier in the decade. But they did. Did put out a song in 98, so I could then choose them.
And so in this case, it was one week by Bare Naked Ladies.
Colin True
00:50:05.430 - 00:50:05.950
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:05.950 - 00:50:08.950
Okay. And so big Bare Naked Ladies.
Colin True
00:50:08.950 - 00:50:09.830
That came out in 98.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:10.310 - 00:50:31.370
It did. But their best stuff was really Gordon in 92. And it's also this is a bit of a shout out.
So I was in Detroit, where we get a lot of great Canadian stuff on the radio that maybe you didn't get the rest of the country, like the Pursuit of Happiness, Our Lady Peace, the tragically Hip City in Color. I mean, most of these bands, people.
Colin True
00:50:31.370 - 00:50:33.970
Are gonna go, okay, fine.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:33.970 - 00:50:53.810
Okay. And finally, finally, the last one is Learn to Fly by the Foo Fighters.
Again, I'm cheating a little bit here because actually their best album was the color and the shape in 97 that had everlong, My Hero, et cetera. But still, it counts. And we got Foo Fighters on the list too. So there you go.
Colin True
00:50:54.290 - 00:50:56.820
Good list. I like your list. Thank you.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:56.890 - 00:50:57.290
Thank you.
Colin True
00:50:57.770 - 00:51:13.850
Yeah, I don't know, we'll see if Shantae and Doug ever talk to you again, but, you know, it's a.
Listen, My only parting shot that I was gonna say is that SGB recently featured an interview with turtlefur's new CEO and producer Dave didn't bring it up today. How dare you, Producer Dave.
Producer Dave
00:51:14.810 - 00:51:40.790
How could I get a word in edgewise with all of that? Are you kidding me?
I would have pointed out though, in that article, the quote that stood out to me is that they're gonna be louder, prouder, and expand the love and loyalty of a new generation of outdoor enthusiasts. So spot on. That's what you get to do when you have VC money coming in. So go talk to that consumer, expand that marketplace. Good for them.
Colin True
00:51:40.870 - 00:51:45.430
And play Owens list on repeat. Turtle for that's the only other thing we can do. You can tell you there.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:45.830 - 00:51:46.550
Absolutely.
Producer Dave
00:51:46.550 - 00:51:47.030
Yes.
Colin True
00:51:47.510 - 00:52:11.600
All right. Good job today, guys. That's the show. Everyone. We want your emails like we said. Send them to myrockfight gmail.com. especially you, Todd, Frank even.
We have a lot to live up to after this episode. The Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight llc. Today was produced.
Today's episode was produced by producer Dave, art direction provided by Sarah Gansert. For Owen Comerford, I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And once again, Less Than Jake does not make a top 10 90s list.
But Kristen makes us here anyway to sing the Rock Fight Fight song.
Producer Dave
00:52:11.600 - 00:52:12.480
It's nice of him.
Colin True
00:52:12.480 - 00:52:14.400
We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:52:14.480 - 00:53:15.230
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Welcome to the Rock Bike where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree.
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