Storm Smarts, Trail Love & Trail Toilets
- 58 minutes ago
- 50 min read
In the latest episode of Gear Abby, host Shawnté Salabert and producer Colin True tackle three listener questions that move from serious backcountry safety to the realities of trail romance and finally into the world of outdoor industry manufacturing. Along the way there are lightning safety lessons, relationship advice for backpackers, and a guest appearance from industry veteran Eoin Comerford to help unpack the economics behind one of the most beloved brands in outdoor gear.
Pre-Question: The Gatekeeper of the Outdoors
Before the listener questions begin, Shawnté and Colin revisit Colin’s recent LinkedIn debate about what counts as an outdoor activity.
The discussion quickly veers into outdoor marketing, generational perspectives on “being outdoorsy,” and whether the industry sometimes overthinks who qualifies as part of the community. Colin argues that the definition of outdoor participation is broader than ever, while Shawnté points out that most people actually outside doing things probably aren’t worried about the debate at all.
Question 1: Storm Smarts in the Backcountry
Listener Gear Mom writes in with a safety question many backpackers have wondered about:
What should you do if a storm rolls in while you’re backpacking and there’s no shelter nearby?
Shawnté’s first point is that truly “unexpected” storms are rare if you’re doing basic trip planning. Checking weather forecasts, understanding local weather patterns, and talking to rangers or other hikers can dramatically reduce surprises.
But when storms do appear, especially lightning storms, your goal becomes risk reduction.
Lightning Safety Basics
Avoid exposed ridges and open fields
Stay away from tall isolated trees
Don’t shelter in caves or under rock overhangs
Spread out if you’re hiking with others
Stay out of water whenever possible transcript-1772643175511
Shawnté also notes that satellite communicators can help long-distance hikers stay aware of incoming weather systems by providing updates while on trail.
The key takeaway: there is no completely safe place outdoors during a lightning storm, but informed decisions can dramatically reduce your risk.
Question 2: Trail Love & Trail Toilets
Listener Whip Snake writes in with a relationship question: he’s a passionate backpacker who dreams of doing more long trails, but his girlfriend—while she enjoys hiking—has reservations about multi-day trips.
Her biggest concerns?
Feeling dirty for days without showers
Having to poop outside
Shawnté starts with an important reminder: partners don’t need identical outdoor passions. Thru-hiking is a lifestyle for some people, but not everyone needs to love it for a relationship to work.
Still, if Whip Snake’s girlfriend is open to trying backpacking, easing into it can help.
How to Make Backpacking Less Intimidating
Start small
Instead of jumping straight into a 165-mile trail like the Tahoe Rim Trail, begin with a short multi-day trip.
Address the “dirty factor”
Backcountry hygiene is manageable with simple tools:
wipes
bandanas
small soap bottles
portable bidets
basic camp washing routines
Shawnté even recalls meeting a Pacific Crest Trail hiker known as “Mr. Clean,” who washed his clothes nightly and somehow kept a spotless white shirt throughout the trip.
Create a comfortable “poop kit”A thoughtful setup can reduce anxiety:
lightweight trowel
wipes or toilet paper
hand sanitizer
Kula cloth
small carry bag
Most importantly, normalize it: everyone eventually learns the art of the cathole.
And if she decides backpacking just isn’t her thing? That’s okay too.
Question 3: Darn Tough, Made-in-America Gear & the Reality of Manufacturing
The final question shifts gears into the outdoor industry itself. A listener asks about Darn Tough socks, a brand famous not just for durability but also for manufacturing its products in the United States.
To help answer the question, Shawnté and Colin bring in Eoin Comerford, outdoor industry analyst and longtime Gear Abby friend of the pod.
Together they discuss:
Why Darn Tough’s Made-in-Vermont manufacturing is unusual in the outdoor industry
The economic realities that lead most brands to produce gear overseas
How labor costs, supply chains, and scaling production affect where gear gets made
Why some companies still prioritize domestic manufacturing despite the challenges
Eoin explains that while U.S. manufacturing can provide quality control and brand differentiation, it also requires a business model that can support higher production costs. The conversation ultimately becomes a broader look at how outdoor brands balance values, pricing, and global supply chains.
The Takeaway
Episode Storm Smarts, Trail Love & Trail Toilets perfectly captures the spirit of Gear Abby: practical outdoor advice, honest conversations about gear and culture, and the willingness to talk about the topics many outdoor podcasts politely avoid.
From lightning safety to relationship compromises to the economics of sock manufacturing, Shawnté and Colin remind listeners that outdoor life isn’t just about adventure—it’s about learning, adapting, and occasionally laughing about the weird realities of life on trail.
Because as always:
There are no dumb questions—just smart advice.
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Episode Transcript:
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:03.200 - 00:01:15.930
You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find, like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks.
She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.
Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abby, where we tackle the controversial, we weird, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I'm outdoor educator and writer Shawnté Salabert, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, good friends, here is how it works.
You're going to send questions to. Dear Gear Abby, that's a B, B Y just in case you've been spelling it wrongmail.com.
and I an a couple of those questions each week here on the show with this guy, my partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abby, a very talented human being and a man who has single handedly exasperated every outdoor professional on LinkedIn in the last two weeks. That's Colin. True.
Colin True
00:01:16.170 - 00:01:18.850
I'm trying, Shawnté. All right, you know, it's.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:18.850 - 00:01:19.930
You're doing a good job.
Colin True
00:01:20.090 - 00:01:27.690
Thank you, thank you. There's. Everybody has the wrong opinions and fortunately for our listeners, I have the right ones.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:27.690 - 00:01:39.110
No, I mean, you're a thought leader, Colin. I really, when I think of thought leaders in this industry, I think Colin Shrew and Lloyd Vogel.
Like, when I'm thinking about LinkedIn thought leaders, it's a very specific subset.
Colin True
00:01:39.430 - 00:01:44.150
High praise and a good company with a. With, with, with, with a Mr. Vogel.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:44.150 - 00:01:48.230
That's right. I mean, he's got a couple L's in his name. You've only got the one. So.
Colin True
00:01:49.510 - 00:01:52.950
Well, well, you know, like I said, 2L columns are posers.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:52.950 - 00:02:01.260
I know. We got, we got a 2L 1L Colin Ebell, which we are very excited to tackle into this. Tackle into. We're just going to dive bomb, like physically into it.
Colin True
00:02:01.260 - 00:02:02.540
Like, are you watching sports games?
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:03.340 - 00:02:10.180
Watching sports ball? It's going well. I'm. No, what I'm doing is not getting enough sleep every night, so.
Colin True
00:02:10.180 - 00:02:11.740
Oh, that'll do it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:11.900 - 00:02:14.140
I've entered a gentle delirium, listeners.
Colin True
00:02:14.140 - 00:02:16.660
This is why this podcast is interesting. Sleep deprivation.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:16.660 - 00:02:19.980
Sleep deprivation and middle age. It's great for you.
Colin True
00:02:19.980 - 00:02:20.620
Great combo.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:21.500 - 00:02:51.770
Oh, my gosh. Well, speaking of. Okay, we have to dig in. We talked about last Week, your, your LinkedIn thought bomb. I'm just Going to call them thought bombs now.
Is trail running a sport? You really set people off, you little instigator, you. But you apparently can't stay away from the post button, sir.
Because I saw you posted another poll last week asking, is being outside the only criteria for something to be an outdoor activity? And I have to say, first of all, thank you for not tagging me in it this time, because I don't want to be implicated in your clickbait.
Colin True
00:02:52.170 - 00:02:53.130
That was a mistake.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:53.530 - 00:03:12.960
It was really like, leave me alone, okay? We get to do this every week. That's enough for me. No, actually, I like more Colin, just not. Just don't implicate me, okay?
I don't want to be an accomplice to your madness. But. All right, let's talk about this, because I actually. I actually kind of think it's an interesting topic. I don't know, like.
So you had what, almost 100 people, I think, respond to the poll, so
Colin True
00:03:13.280 - 00:03:19.280
not quite as successful on that front as the Israeli people, well into the three hundreds.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:19.600 - 00:03:20.680
Did you really? That's.
Colin True
00:03:20.680 - 00:03:22.880
It did, yeah. That one definitely last week.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:22.880 - 00:03:24.400
I forget what you say week to week.
Colin True
00:03:25.120 - 00:03:25.880
I don't blame you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:25.880 - 00:03:27.520
Who are you? Most people, why are you here?
Colin True
00:03:28.160 - 00:04:03.470
Who is this person in front of me on a screen? Where am I this? I. I mean, there's a little less rage, baity, clickbaity in this one because I do think it's an interesting conversation.
This is something especially when I worked at. At a place like Polar Check. We talked about a lot about how the landscape has changed. And you can see it in the youth, right? You like. My kids don't.
The utes. You don't.
My kids don't think of the outdoors, by the way, like you or I think about the outdoors because they've grown up their whole lives with things that fit, things that function and enable them to go outside. Not, you know, like we grew up with, like, I don't know if this jacket's gonna keep you warm. It might.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:03.550 - 00:04:05.150
Here's a stick. Have fun.
Colin True
00:04:05.390 - 00:04:51.220
Go have fun. And so I think if I said to my kids or anybody else who's on the younger side, hey, what does it mean to be outdoorsy?
They might give you a whole bunch of answers that nobody in sort of the LinkedIn outdoor crowd or our demo would give as well. So I thought it was curious. And I think the results kind of bear it out that it is.
It's not quite as lopsided as this trail riding is for 54% said yes. That being Outside is the only criteria for something to be an outdoor activity.
So I think it's a worthy exercise, and I think it's why I do think it is worthy for outdoor brands, too, is it's like, hey, you gotta know who you're talking to, you know, and, like, what if people consider it? And if you're only showing the, hey, look at me on an ice ax hanging off a cliff, people.
Yeah, you're really limiting yourself, you know, so that was kind of the thought behind it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:51.300 - 00:05:22.000
Okay, well, that's interesting. I mean, I think, you know, I'm thinking about REI in particular, and how they, like, when they really started opening up, too.
I remember it was kind of marketed as, like, festival wear, you know, and festival tents and things that you can leave behind broken at Coachella when you leave. But I feel like they kind of were maybe the first big brand to cross. Like, really understand that outdoor means a lot of things to a lot of people.
But I'm guessing, like, I'm going to ask you. I'm going to ask you your own questions. So is being outside the only criteria? Or, like, how do you define an outdoor activity?
Colin True
00:05:22.240 - 00:05:30.240
I mean, this. This is. This is where it is a little, like, I think my. Is trail running a sport?
It's like, again, and this is what you and I harp on and on about, even for all my fish, I
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:30.240 - 00:05:34.140
believe that's just you. You harp on it. Don't implic. And you're harping.
Colin True
00:05:34.220 - 00:05:39.860
Well, how do you define it? Right. Yeah, I do think that. I think, like, you know, I don't want to put outdoor in a box.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:39.860 - 00:05:40.180
Right.
Colin True
00:05:40.180 - 00:05:57.020
So if you're. If you're going to play, you know, Frisbee on the beach with your buddies, you know, that's an outdoor sport or that's an outdoor activity. Right.
If it's. If you want to put, you know, the restraints on it that it has to have, like, some level of risk. Like.
Well, I guess what we could tell you there's a risk in, but just about stepping out your front door.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:57.420 - 00:06:00.820
So I've tripped and fallen on a basketball court. You don't know anything could.
Colin True
00:06:00.820 - 00:06:01.180
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:01.180 - 00:06:04.620
Okay. I've tripped walking down the street, so. Yeah, right.
Colin True
00:06:04.860 - 00:06:09.720
Being out there with your buddies on the beach. So, yeah, I do think that that's really the only criteria anymore.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:10.120 - 00:06:10.480
Yeah.
Colin True
00:06:10.480 - 00:06:10.640
Well.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:10.640 - 00:06:22.520
And who does it really matter to? I don't think anybody who's actually outside doing things, like, they're too happy just doing their shit.
They're not gonna be like, am I doing an outdoor Activity or not. It's really just a marketing thing, which I think is what a lot of things boil down to.
Colin True
00:06:22.760 - 00:06:37.540
And I mean, that's where the more sensitive sort, which I do, as I said last week, enjoy enraging. You know, they kind of chime in with like, this is your gatekeeping by dictate. I'm like, no, man. Like, what?
If anybody's gonna read this post and then feel like they can't go outside, they probably weren' go
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:39.860 - 00:06:40.820
said, I can't.
Colin True
00:06:41.460 - 00:06:44.580
And by the way, you shouldn't. Don't go outside. It's for me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:44.660 - 00:06:51.180
I feel like we should just leave that, Larry, and let. Let people ruminate on that. It was almost like the Enforcer just got channeled back.
Colin True
00:06:51.180 - 00:06:52.660
Remember the Gatekeeper?
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:52.900 - 00:07:12.480
Gatekeeper. You know what? I feel like this is our. We've got it. We're coming up with some alternate methods of employment here and money making.
And so I think if we develop a marvel, like our own Marvel. So we can't call it Marvel because we'll get sued, but like the Fantastic Four, in our version, we've got the Enforcer. Now we've got the Gatekeeper.
Colin True
00:07:12.480 - 00:07:13.040
Love it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:13.120 - 00:07:19.760
We got it. We need maybe two more characters, maybe. Maybe three more. So we could be like the Furious 5 or something.
Colin True
00:07:20.159 - 00:07:22.560
We'll come up with it. But I like the idea of the Gatekeeper.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:22.720 - 00:07:23.040
Just.
Colin True
00:07:23.040 - 00:07:29.400
They don't. They don't do much. They just hang out at trailheads and they judge you as you walk up and go, no, no, not you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:29.400 - 00:07:29.760
You.
Colin True
00:07:29.760 - 00:07:35.450
You're okay. Go ahead. You're like a bouncer. They have like a security T shirt on, like a velvet rope at the trailhead.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:36.010 - 00:07:40.730
All right, to. To. To take us into the next segment. Can you just say the Gatekeeper one more time?
Colin True
00:07:41.450 - 00:07:42.810
The Gatekeeper.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:44.970 - 00:07:51.210
Man. Colin, I know I say this probably every three to five episodes, but you should just get a job in voiceover work.
Colin True
00:07:52.090 - 00:07:57.530
You know, I don't know what's holding me back. I mean, I just need to go. I probably be the. The incredibly competitive landscape of energy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:57.610 - 00:08:03.590
Might be. Might be. We could make a Super Cuts edition, though, of you saying all of these things. Voice.
Colin True
00:08:04.070 - 00:08:10.950
Do you need a guy who can just say one. One more syllable, one tone. I'm your guy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:11.110 - 00:08:24.670
I know who he is. We got him. Oh, man. I wish. I wish. I think that this is not. Because it is more syllables.
Like, I almost want you to read the opening letter in that voice, but I can't. I feel like that would be painful for you, maybe physically.
Colin True
00:08:24.670 - 00:08:32.110
I think we got to save it. Yeah. Spiritually, though, for sure. Well, who knows? Maybe we don't know what's going to happen this episode. Maybe another name will come up that will.
Will bring it back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:32.110 - 00:08:43.010
I love it. Okay. I can only hope so.
All right, well, why don't we dig into an actual question, which is not just you and I asking questions of each other and the Internet? How about somebody else asking us a question?
Colin True
00:08:43.410 - 00:08:45.010
We know that's what the people really want.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:45.090 - 00:08:45.890
That's what they want.
Colin True
00:08:46.450 - 00:09:00.650
Okay, first question today.
Dear Gear Abby, when you're backpacking, how do you find or create a safe shelter for yourself when an unexpected storm moves in and there's no solid structures nearby? Love Gear Mom. Gear mom, back on the pod.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:00.650 - 00:09:15.630
Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, I a. We had to. We had to get another Gear Mom. Mom? In here. I very much appreciate it that she sent this.
And questions like this are why I think that 90% of the time I head out into the back country, my mom is secretly convinced that I'm heading toward imminent death.
Colin True
00:09:16.110 - 00:09:20.150
That's the real reason behind this pocket. Look, I got to do a podcast. My mom's not worried about me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:20.150 - 00:09:31.150
I know. I know. I'm sorry, Mom. Sorry, not sorry. But, you know, maybe. Maybe I can calm your fears. Gear Mom. Or maybe I'm about to make them worse. I don't know.
Maybe. Maybe. Earmuffs for this.
Colin True
00:09:31.760 - 00:09:33.560
Maybe your mom is actually the gatekeeper.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:33.560 - 00:09:36.600
You know, she might be. Yeah. You know what? The original gatekeeper.
Colin True
00:09:36.600 - 00:09:39.600
The original gatekeeper. The mother of gatekeepers.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:39.760 - 00:09:49.280
Mother of gatekeepers. It's very. That might be. She could be an auxiliary character in our. When we develop the furiously fresh fives.
Colin True
00:09:49.280 - 00:09:54.640
The mother of dragons on Game of Thrones was originally the mother of gatekeepers, but it didn't work as well, you know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:54.640 - 00:10:14.350
Yeah, it doesn't flow as well off the tongue. So, first of all, Gear Mom, I've got to tell you, there are actually no unexpected storms. Bad weather does not just conjure itself out of nothing.
That is why meteorologists stay employed to this day, and I trust. I trust these good people. So before I leave on a trip, I do something wild called, wait for
Colin True
00:10:14.350 - 00:10:19.390
it, checking the weather, which, wow, sassy child, your mom is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:19.390 - 00:10:26.990
Listen, if your mom's gonna send it, she's got to be able to take it. If she's gonna dish it, that's not really her dishing it, but you know the implication.
Colin True
00:10:26.990 - 00:10:28.430
Curiosity is dishing it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:29.150 - 00:11:14.250
No, I think the implication is that I'm out there being unsafe. So what am I doing to play?
You know, Anyway, so I will say she does know that I do a lot of multi week trips and it is a lot harder on those trips to track the weather. So I did mention this in a recent episode when we talked about satellite beacons and in reach and all that jazz.
Using one of those with a two way communication function or one of those dedicated weather functions that goes a long way toward having bit of peace of mind out there. It's another reason and I might have even mentioned it. That's why I like to have one with me.
You can get updates while you're out there and plan like if you know a storm's in the forecast, which I did a couple summers ago. There was remnants of. I was at Hurricane Hillary or something. There was a hurricane that like swept into the Southern California and. Remnants. Yeah.
Colin True
00:11:14.410 - 00:11:17.770
And then they got like Death Valley, got the huge kind of lake in it and everything afterwards.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:17.770 - 00:11:40.350
Lake Manley. Yeah. So that came and I was on the trail and I saw the update and I was like, well, I should probably get off the trail for a day or two.
Which was good that I did that by the way, because I knew a guy who got stuck in his tent for like 48 hours and it flooded and he just like read books on his Kindle. He was in there. Yeah, he said it sucked. So glad I went.
Colin True
00:11:40.350 - 00:11:41.910
And I imagine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:42.470 - 00:12:35.300
Loser. Yeah, so that's, that's one good reason for that. And also you just talk to other people on the trail.
You know, you see a ranger, you might ask them if you know anything I should know about. You see other hikers, any storms, bring what, whatever, they might have already done the work for you. So let, let them do that.
And you also want in general to kind of understand the climate of wherever you're traveling.
So for instance, like knowing when monsoon season is, if you're hiking in Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, parts of Colorado, even like far eastern parts of California, or understand like in the Sierra, afternoon storms are very common, but they're very short. So understanding kind of where you're going is good before you actually go there.
In general, I think it's also really important to learn how to quote, like read the clouds. And I really realize that sounds like something you do after taking a bunch of LSD in the desert or something.
Colin True
00:12:35.860 - 00:12:38.340
You know, I mean, your mom knows what you're talking about.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:38.500 - 00:13:19.040
That's exactly what. Yes, right. Yeah. But I think, I think it's understanding clouds.
It sounds nice, but it's also very useful because if you Know what rain clouds look like versus thunderheads. And then seeing how they develop during the day, it's a pretty good indicator of what's coming.
Coming your way and when it might evolve into something more extreme, like an electrical storm or what you might call a thunderstorm. So for me, if all signs are pointing towards plain old rain, I'm. I'm generally gonna just keep hiking unless it starts pouring.
So I might stop and tuck away electronics, pull out my rain jacket. You know, I even have a little rain kilt now. It's very fancy. That's right.
Colin True
00:13:19.680 - 00:13:20.560
Rain kilt.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:20.640 - 00:13:22.200
Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome.
Colin True
00:13:22.200 - 00:13:24.000
You don't have to have like that groin dry.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:25.760 - 00:13:27.120
No, it were. It's like. It's.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:27.190 - 00:13:27.430
It's.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:27.430 - 00:13:30.190
I don't know. Whatever, Colin. Okay, the groin.
Colin True
00:13:30.190 - 00:13:33.110
Nothing specific place in your body to keep dry.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:33.670 - 00:13:38.390
It's. Well, it just adds a little extra warmth. You know what? I've never thought of it that way.
Colin True
00:13:38.710 - 00:13:43.590
Tell you what I will tell you though, shot day, is that the rain kilt has no place on our only fans channel.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:45.750 - 00:14:00.490
Oh, no. Well, we haven't. We should do a poll. Maybe that should be your next LinkedIn poll. What if we did a gear Abbey? Only fans.
Oh, my God, I hope you're really not listening. Mom, we're not. We would never do that. Don't think we would. That's a lie.
Colin True
00:14:00.730 - 00:14:03.530
Only fans is. Is where you're Only your fans are.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:03.530 - 00:15:12.650
Only your fans go. They're just like, hey, I love what you do. You're. I love the way your feet look. It's great. No reason. No reason at all.
So, yeah, when I'm wearing my special issue, Only fans actually bought it on garage grown gear, so. Thanks, Lloyd Vogel. Wearing my saucy rain skirt. Yeah, I'm hiking on.
I've still some fresh flow going on in there, but honestly, I don't care about rain hitting my body all that much except for trying to stay a little warmer because I am already sweaty as shit out there, which we all know. We talked about it enough on this podcast. Probably why I'm single right now, but. Yeah. So if.
Though, if this is what your mom is asking, if it even looks or feels or if I have a spidey sense, you know, that a storm is developing, that might be something like a darkened sky, which is a very obvious, you know, indicator. Sudden drop in temperature, sudden drop in barometric pressure, which you would know if you have a watch. A lot of watches now have an alert for that.
The wind picks up like all of these things could be indicators. Plus the development of thunderheads, which are those big puffy ones that turn into kind of anvils. They're really freaky looking. Amazing clouds.
Colin True
00:15:12.650 - 00:15:13.650
Yeah, they're so cool.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:13.650 - 00:15:17.250
They're so cool. We should do send us cloud questions.
Colin True
00:15:17.410 - 00:15:19.010
Yes, please. I want to get an expert on
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:19.890 - 00:15:24.210
a cloud expert in and I just want to talk an ASMR voice the whole time.
Colin True
00:15:25.250 - 00:15:27.090
They're like, is this how you do your whole podcast?
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:27.090 - 00:15:41.090
Yeah, no, just when you're just the cloud pod. Just the cloud episode. I want to sound like a cumulus cloud sound. Do you want to sound like a cirrus? I don't know.
No, actually, I think a cirrus probably a cirrus probably sounds like this.
Colin True
00:15:41.090 - 00:15:42.610
It does a little more hissy little.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:42.610 - 00:15:43.370
It's more hissy.
Colin True
00:15:43.370 - 00:15:44.610
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:44.610 - 00:15:48.930
Like a cumulus, though, maybe. What does a thunderhead sound like? Colin, since you're working on your voiceover work.
Colin True
00:15:49.250 - 00:15:58.190
Oh, you got me on the spot. I don't know, maybe more like, I'm a clown. I'm here. Look at me. I will get your attention with my loud noises.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:59.550 - 00:16:05.550
Okay, that works. All right. Yep. File that one. When you're making your. Your real.
Colin True
00:16:06.430 - 00:16:07.190
Yeah, exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:07.190 - 00:17:43.770
Potential jobs. But yeah, so when. When the clouds start talking to you like Colin, then you know you're in real danger for many reasons. The ls. Yeah, exactly. That's.
That's probably the biggest concern. You should just sit down and enjoy your trip. But yeah, so if. If. Here's the thing.
If a storm is approaching, it doesn't need to be right on top of you for you to be in danger. So if it is a lightning storm, an electrical storm. Lightning can strike from up to 10 miles away, which is way too far in my opinion. So rude.
First of all. And so I'm going to say this before we dig into what. What you should do is that. Mom, if you have. Have been listening. A, I'm sorry. B, really? Earmuffs.
Earmuffs. Okay. There is no safe place to be outdoors during an electrical storm. It's just a fact. That is the thing.
All you could do is try to mitigate your risk. If you cannot get to a building or a vehicle, you're going to try to wait it out somewhere.
You want to avoid being in water, first of all, sorry if you're a fish. I mean, that's a problem for many reasons, but you don't want to be in water.
You don't want to be in, like a big open field, a big open space where you're going to be the tallest thing, because then you are a perfect lightning rod. For that same reason, you want to avoid standing underneath the tallest things. So I remember being on the PCT and lightning hit.
I think I've talked about this. A ridge one ridge over, and I start running down from this exposed ridge line. We're far above tree line, and it's me and another guy.
And this guy, the very first tree he gets to, which happens to be a very tall tree, he just stands under it. He's like, okay, we're going to be safe here. I'm like, not at all, sir. You're even less safe there. So.
Colin True
00:17:43.770 - 00:17:44.250
Wow.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:44.330 - 00:17:47.610
It's like it just made him an even lighter, larger target, you know?
Colin True
00:17:48.080 - 00:17:48.400
Mm.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:48.720 - 00:18:41.510
So I. I convinced him to join me under some much shorter trees a little further down. So don't do that. Also, don't. This is gonna be counterintuitive to people who don't know, but do not try to seek shelter in a cave.
Don't go under a rock outcropping. There is a great book that we may have talked about at some point. Maybe it was during the books when we talked about, like, true crime or something.
But there's a book in. I was gonna say Into Thin Air that is a different book about different bad things. What is it? Shattered Air?
I think it's about lightning hitting Half Dome. When people were on the summit and some people were underneath one of the rock outcrops, and they all got zapped.
Because what happens is rock is like a superconductor for, you know, electricity, and it just turns you. You are then part of the lightning. You're all just like, you know, it's bad. That's the sound of lightning. And you merging that sound I just
Colin True
00:18:41.510 - 00:18:44.550
made could get superpowers, though. Can't rule it out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:44.550 - 00:18:57.730
Yeah, I can't. So I. You know, I'm not an expert. Okay, so take everything we on this podcast with, like, a pound of salt. Don't do it. Okay. Just don't.
You won't get superpowers except for the powers of death. So.
Colin True
00:18:57.730 - 00:18:58.010
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:58.010 - 00:19:59.080
And then if you're with other people, spread out so that if one of you does get zapped, the other ones aren't just being zapped by association.
And there have actually been some new developments in lightning safety, which, you know, I know science changes all the time, but one of which is that crouching is not. Not totally necessary. Like, there's. The whole thing has always been get into the lightning stance, which is you crouch.
You Put your hands over your head and then you just cry or whatever. You could still cry. Okay, that's still a powerful response to this. But you don't need to squat and, you know, balance on your backpack or anything.
Praying to your deity of choice. That's not. Not really gonna do much. But sit. Sit down if you want.
Just don't lay down because that does expose a whole bunch of your body to the ground. So if there is a strike, but you don't necessarily have to crouch, just don't be laying in the middle of an open field.
There's also evidence, and this was surprising to me, that metal doesn't. There's this fallacy, I guess we all grew up with that. Metal attracts lightning. Like, come to me, Come strike me.
Colin True
00:19:59.320 - 00:20:00.440
Stands a reason, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:00.440 - 00:20:00.720
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:00.720 - 00:20:15.000
Yeah. No, it doesn't. So, you know, I still would not, you know, hold my trekking pole straight into the air. That's just me. You do you. But yeah.
All right, mom, earmuffs off. Hopefully you didn't listen to anything I said. And I'm super safe out there, I promise.
Colin True
00:20:15.910 - 00:20:26.870
Well, Shantae, as the gatekeeper, I want to say that if you're using. Still using metal trekking poles. What the hell are you doing?
You should have carbon fiber trekking poles, in which case you can wave them around in the lightning all you want.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:26.950 - 00:21:02.530
Carbon fiber trekking poles. Okay, Colin, I do actually have a really nice pair by gossamer gear that I love. And they.
They are a little bit of a game changer having those really light poles. So, you know, don't. But don't wave them around. Just. Anyway, just don't. You don't want to make yourself taller. Thank you.
Okay, so as it turns out, don't listen to Colin unless it's himself, the gatekeeper, and in which case feel free to listen to him all you want. I like that. We got some real special voiceover action in that.
You know, it's one of my secret joys of recording with you is when we get to I do an accent, you do a voiceover.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:03.330 - 00:21:03.690
It's.
Colin True
00:21:03.690 - 00:21:08.090
It's just non stop and it's. And it's great. And don't tell us that it's not great because we don't want to.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:08.090 - 00:21:16.690
That's right. Yeah. Keep that to yourself. Don't put that in your Apple review. But.
But do leave us reviews that are nice, please, please, emotionally, we need that right now.
Colin True
00:21:17.910 - 00:21:28.870
King shaming is my kink. Was the. The woman who left, I assume. Woman. I don't know why I'm saying woman. The person who left us a great Apple podcast review. So join.
Join Kink Shame, please.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:28.950 - 00:21:29.390
Yeah.
Colin True
00:21:29.390 - 00:21:31.110
Which we do not do on this podcast.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:31.110 - 00:21:37.190
Yeah, that's right. That's right. We don't kink Shame. Like if. You know, to me the trekking poles in the air is not a kink. But if it is.
Colin True
00:21:37.350 - 00:21:39.430
What? Well, what if that's your kink?
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:39.430 - 00:21:40.590
I know I might.
Colin True
00:21:40.590 - 00:21:42.430
You gotta roll back that whole last segue.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:42.430 - 00:21:49.090
What if your kink is being electrocuted? There are people. There is a whole subset, I think that is into like light electrical play.
Colin True
00:21:49.410 - 00:21:54.290
And if you're telling them that they can't go out in the lightning, then you know what you're doing. You're gatekeeping.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:54.370 - 00:22:03.330
No, it all comes back full electrical gatekeeping circle. Damn it. Well, Colin, help me from myself by asking me another question, please.
Colin True
00:22:03.570 - 00:22:05.330
Oh, I think you're gonna like this one.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:05.330 - 00:22:06.250
Oh, excellent.
Colin True
00:22:06.250 - 00:22:08.690
It's been a minute since we've hung out on Pooh Corner.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:08.930 - 00:22:12.690
Oh, yes, bring it. Bring me to Pooh Corner.
Colin True
00:22:12.770 - 00:22:16.200
And today we return the triumphant return to Poo Corner.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:16.200 - 00:22:19.560
Dear Abby, we need a sound. No, we don't actually, I took that back.
Colin True
00:22:19.640 - 00:22:21.440
That's way too easy to do.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:21.440 - 00:22:23.240
I mean, carry on as you were.
Colin True
00:22:23.400 - 00:22:41.160
You just killed about two hours of my week because I'm like the pod takes really easy to edit, but I'm gonna sit and just listen to sound effects for about two hours to find the right one. All right.
Dear Gear Abby, I've been dating my girlfriend for a year and I can say without exaggeration that this is the most incredible relationship I've ever been in. And I honestly think we'll be together forever.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:41.160 - 00:22:42.440
Okay. Okay.
Colin True
00:22:42.440 - 00:22:43.920
No poo yet. We're on poo.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:43.920 - 00:22:45.680
No, I am curious about that. Okay.
Colin True
00:22:46.000 - 00:23:09.480
The only thing is I'm a huge backpacker. I think they mean like enthusiasm, not size, I think is what they're saying. And have done a couple through hikes and would like to do more.
But even though she loves hiking and the outdoors and has done some one night backpacking trips, she said she's not sure she wants to do more than that. So this summer when I hike the CT cdt, do you think that's what they do?
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:09.480 - 00:23:10.800
CT is probably Colorado Trail.
Colin True
00:23:10.800 - 00:23:29.600
Oh, Colorado Trail. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. When I hiked the Colorado Trail ct, she came and met me in Breck for a weekend and that was it. Her big issues.
One, she thinks it's going to feel gross and to not shower for however many days in a Row and two. Here it is. She doesn't want to have to poop outside.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:30.080 - 00:23:30.720
Okay.
Colin True
00:23:31.200 - 00:23:52.630
Any advice on how I can get her to feel more comfortable and open minded about this? I want to suggest that we hike the TRT together this summer since it's a shorter trail, but I want to do it in a way that feels good to her. Thanks.
Whipsnake. Trail name, obviously. Right. And then they gave their bonafides. Whipsnake's bonafides are at 23 pct 24 and CT 25.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:53.030 - 00:23:58.150
Thank you for submitting your hiker resume. We will consider you and get back to you if we figure you're a fit.
Colin True
00:23:59.430 - 00:24:05.390
I did a visual breakdown and a risk assessment and I'm not gatekeeping Whipsnake.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:05.390 - 00:24:08.870
You're not free to hike, but are you kink shaming Whipsnake?
Colin True
00:24:08.950 - 00:24:10.560
Never. Not on this podcast.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:10.560 - 00:24:31.880
Silently, maybe. All right, well, yes, we're gonna. We're gonna assume that's your trail name. Great. Trail name.
I'm also gonna assume that you are named after the incredible Flex Trek Whip Snake, an absolutely real piece of gear designed by the absolutely real Steve Clymer. Wink, wink. For everybody listening. If you do not know what that is, just Google Flex Trek Whip Snake. Colin, do you know what it is?
Colin True
00:24:31.880 - 00:24:32.440
I don't.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:32.440 - 00:24:35.200
Oh my God, I love this. Okay, after we stop recording, you have to google it.
Colin True
00:24:35.200 - 00:24:35.600
Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:35.600 - 00:25:34.900
I will click on the YouTube link now. There are several, but whatever one you click on will be good. Good. The original is, you know, the icon and just prepare to be delighted.
That's all I'm saying. So anyone who doesn't know Flex Trek Whip Snake. So Whip Snake, we've got a few things to address here.
So first, I do want to say I appreciate that you want to share something that's really important to you with this person you clearly adore and feel like you're going to spend infinity with. I also love that you want your girlfriend to feel comfortable and make sure the backpacking can feel enjoyable to her.
I'm going to offer you a little something to think about and I think Colin's going to be on board with this. She may not want to do a through hike with you or with anybody or even by herself. And that is absolutely okay.
And there should be zero pressure on your end for her to do it. If she's just not interested, she does not need to explain why. She could just be like, it's not my thing. And you can be like, okay, it's my thing.
That's fine. It's not your thing. Right? Like, I know you're on board with this, Colin. I feel like we talk about this. You don't.
Your thing doesn't have to be your person's thing.
Colin True
00:25:34.900 - 00:25:35.420
For sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:36.080 - 00:28:02.790
Yeah, I mean, I do know, like I know her. The idea of her not being down with it might be a huge, might feel huge to you, Whip snake. I'm just gonna call you that. From the rest of the episode.
It's a Family Guy slash Steve Clymer, you know, combo deal. So I know for a lot of through hikers it is kind of less of a hobby than it is a full on lifestyle. Like people get freaky deaky about this.
They're out there like most of the year hiking. Like kudos to them. I too wish I could just be walking all year instead of, of, you know, trying to earn a living doing more, you know, sitting stuff.
I'm just sitting, talking and sitting and writing.
Um, but yeah, listen, you might not feel like you can have a long term relationship with somebody who doesn't want to hike for months on end, but that's not true. Like, I think that there's really just those few people that are at that extreme end of the spectrum.
Looking at your email signature where you gave your bonafides, you've done one long trail a year for the last few summers. Okay, well, you know, the AT and the PT are long ones, I get that. But most through hikes are not going to be like five or six month journeys.
It's probably more like I'm going to go hike this for a few weeks here and there. Maybe keep doing one a year. If that's your thing. You may have a job that won't let you do that or you may choose a lifestyle that lets you out.
I don't know.
But the fact that you two made it through your Colorado Trail hike last year, that that should be a good indicator that your relationship probably isn't doomed. If she wants to sit it out this summer while you go, you know about your dirtbag fantasies, right? Yeah, like it's going to be all right, dude.
But if she is open to through hiking the trt, which by the way, if you're not more acronym. We love an acronym. That's the Tahoe Rim Trail. Um, if she is open to through hiking, that's not a bad Choice. It's. It's 165 miles.
It's pretty short in the scheme of things. But I would say this, like since she's only. You said she's Only done one night trips.
You might want to start a little shorter even just to see how she feels for a couple nights out.
So I don't know where you live, but if you were planning on being in California anyway for the trt, maybe tack on the Trans Catalina Trail, which is only 38 miles. Two nights, three days, like that's a good one. Or just pick a two or three day, like five day, whatever. Like somewhere in there.
Three to five days stretch anywhere close to home that you like.
Like I get the appeal of hiking a name trail and people really have this in their heads that it only counts if I'm through hiking a trail from start to finish. And it has a name and it has an acronym and blah, blah, blah, whatever. Who gives a. Are you having fun out there? Okay, enjoy. Enjoy your backpacking.
Okay.
Colin True
00:28:03.270 - 00:28:10.850
By the way, Catalina, like that's on. That's actually for someone, for admitted non camper. That is very intriguing to me because of the access to amenities.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:11.490 - 00:28:19.690
That's true. You can eat there. There's like at least one or two places you can buy food along the way, like restaurants. And you might see some bison and
Colin True
00:28:19.690 - 00:28:21.010
they probably have bathrooms.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:21.250 - 00:28:23.010
Yeah, but did I mention the bison?
Colin True
00:28:23.330 - 00:28:24.210
Yes, there is bison.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:24.210 - 00:28:26.490
Don't. You know what you should not do though? Don't pet the bison.
Colin True
00:28:26.490 - 00:28:28.770
Oh no, you can pet the Catalina bison. That's fine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:28.770 - 00:28:36.950
You can't. We need. We might need to start getting a lawyer involved in this podcast. Just assume whatever Colin says is probably not right.
Colin True
00:28:38.140 - 00:28:39.100
It's a fair assumption.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:39.100 - 00:30:10.890
It's inspiring, I understand, but no, no petting the bison. But you probably could. I think you can actually get bison burgers at one of the places. That sounds a little morbid, but delicious.
Yeah, don't make them yourself though. Okay, so yeah, you don't. It doesn't need to be a name trail. Just go take her out for a few days, see if she digs it. So if she's open to it, we can.
Let's get into those two things you mentioned. So first of all, being dirty, I get it. That is a turn off for a lot of people.
A lot of people do not want to feel like Pig Pen from Peanut Nuts day in and day out. But you don't have to be a total dirt bag when you're out there. We've talked about this. I'll just remind you. Water. Water exists.
I mean, unless you're out on the Arizona trail in a drought year or we're living in a near future where we've screwed up the Climate so bad that we're living in a Coric McCarthy nightmare, in which case through hiking will be the least of your worries. True. You know, but yeah, water generally exists. You know what else exists for now?
Baby wipes, bandanas, bidets, tiny eyedropper bottles in which you can place whatever quantity of Dr. Bronner's castile soap. It's easy. A lot of people stay clean out there.
In fact, back in 2015, I was on the PCT, I met a guy at Kennedy Meadows whose trail name was I shit you not, Mr. Clean. I think there's probably at least one Mr. Clean every year on any given trail. This man wore a white button down shirt and it was immaculate.
Every single time I saw him. Like I saw him probably for another few weeks after that, on and off on the trail.
And he, he, he, I asked him, I was like, how, how are you doing this? What's. Are you an alien?
Colin True
00:30:10.970 - 00:30:14.010
Were you wearing your disgusting sun hoodie when you were encountered?
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:14.010 - 00:30:59.450
Absolutely no. I think at that time I was wearing a button down that was hideous. And it had already had holes in it. It was just bad.
It was lots of like layers of sweat rings. Real sexy stuff. Yeah. I was just like, dude, how can you tell me your secrets? Not that I'm going to do any of it, but can you tell them to me?
And he just said, he's like, listen, I just make it a point. Every night when I get into camp, one of my chores is washing my clothes and washing myself every single night.
And if he dry camped, which is when you camp somewhere where there's not a water source, he was just like using a bandana and he carried a little extra water. It was a very, it was a commitment to the cause. You know, he's like, I am playing the part of Mr. Clean real hard here.
So personally, I always look like the sweat crusted bottom of somebody's shoe. But perhaps Mr. Clean can serve as a little inspiration for your lady, you
Colin True
00:30:59.450 - 00:31:00.810
know, off the trail as well.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:00.970 - 00:31:07.250
So I do not. Damn you. Pox on your mustache.
Colin True
00:31:07.810 - 00:31:08.530
It's gone.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:08.530 - 00:31:11.810
It is gone. Actually. It's because I pre poxed it. That's right.
Colin True
00:31:11.810 - 00:31:12.570
Oh, that's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:12.570 - 00:32:09.690
That's right. I was busy earlier. Yeah, I was pre poxing. So. Okay, now the main event. We gotta talk about pooping. So I've been waiting for this way too long.
I think it's actually whip snake.
It's you and I who are probably the outcasts here because I think most people who use flush toilets on a daily Basis are just not used to doing their business outside. And they're not even used to squatting to do it. Even if they use one of those little stools, which are really great, by the way. I.
You know, it's a position that people use around the world. Like it is a very common way to use the bathroom is to squat into a hole. Whether it's porcelain hole or a hole in the ground.
So I'd say first of all, let's talk about comfort.
Like remind your girlfriend that walking around with your butt all puckered up and feeling like you gotta drop some kids off at the pool, it is not a comfortable way to hike. Like, it's not gonna be enjoyable. There's nothing worse than having to hold it when you know you have to go, um, she's just.
She's gonna feel so much better if she just ch her inner Elsa from frozen and lets it go.
Colin True
00:32:09.930 - 00:32:10.810
Gotta let it go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:10.810 - 00:32:16.770
You can tell her to sing that if you want. You could play it for her maybe. I'm a small. Actually, don't. I hate speakers in the backcountry.
Colin True
00:32:16.770 - 00:32:19.050
No, no. You just found the use for the Bluetooth speaker.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:19.050 - 00:32:41.680
That's the one and only use I will sanction. Okay, that and if my friend did. This is a sidebar. You know we love a sidebar.
My friend Mayon actually played a magical for me once cuz she made me corn in a chalice. It's a long story. It has to do with the Renaissance fair. But we were backpacking and she made me cupcakes. Corn in a cup.
And she played a magical while she presented it to me. She also gave me a flower crown to wear while I ate it. So.
Colin True
00:32:41.920 - 00:32:42.800
So these are the.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:42.960 - 00:32:43.760
These are the only.
Colin True
00:32:43.920 - 00:32:45.080
The words acceptable.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:45.080 - 00:32:48.040
Yeah. This is the only time you can use a bluetooth speaker.
Colin True
00:32:48.040 - 00:32:51.240
And if anybody gives you for it, you can say I'm taking a. And that's why it's playing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:51.240 - 00:32:56.800
That's right. It's my inspiration music. Okay, sometimes we need a little. It's like your workout playlist, but for pooping.
Colin True
00:32:56.960 - 00:33:00.600
You have a choice. You could listen to this music I'm playing or you could listen to the
Eoin Comerford
00:33:00.600 - 00:33:01.600
other thing that's happening.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:03.040 - 00:33:13.420
What do you want to listen to? You get. My music is actually just going to be you saying the. Maybe you could be the gatekeeper. What would be your. No, you need.
You need a poo name now.
Colin True
00:33:14.380 - 00:33:16.300
I don't want a poo name.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:17.740 - 00:34:14.260
I want you to have a hole. No, I'll come up with something better for next Week. Oh, wow. I'm delighted just thinking about that. We can add the podcast here.
All right, well, but here. Okay. I'm going to keep. I'm going to answer the rest of Whip Snake's question. So you could also do.
You could give her another little bougie thing besides the musical accompaniment. And you could create like a little bespoke potty kit for her. You get her a kula cloth. We love. I've got probably 10 at this point.
Get her a cool trowel. I personally love the deuce of spades. I mean, for the name alone. Right. But also it's a really great trowel. The tent lab makes it.
Get her some nice smelling hand sanitizer if you want a little bag to hold it all.
And I can't believe I'm saying this, but given her squeamishness, I'd actually hold off on getting her a bidet at first and just pop a pack of wet wipes in there, like, you know, and a little baggie so she can carry them out. But make it.
Colin True
00:34:14.340 - 00:34:17.860
Try to get over the hurdle of going. You don't want to add a complicated, like, system.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:17.860 - 00:34:18.219
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:18.219 - 00:34:19.740
Learn how to shower your butthole.
Colin True
00:34:19.740 - 00:34:20.380
Yeah, that's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:20.380 - 00:34:38.960
Nah, just the wipes. Just get a bunch of wipes. Put them in there. Yeah, it's gonna be. It's.
That's gonna help a lot, I think, is her realizing, you know, this isn't that bad. And also without. Okay, I'm gonna. The caveat here is without actually pooping yourself, you can model some of the things she could do. Okay.
Without actually pooping.
Colin True
00:34:38.960 - 00:34:41.280
You can model the pooping part too, if you want.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:41.600 - 00:35:15.840
All right. We don't kink shame. But we're not gonna talk about it. We draw a hard line there. But listen, you know, you can first of all, show her.
Here's how far you actually have to walk away from the trail. It's considerable enough. No one's gonna see you. Like, show her how to scan the horizon to make sure no one's watching. We've talked about that before.
When? During the Shar the shark question. Show her how to dig the hole, how to cover it up afterwards, and then demonstrate.
It's going to sound weird, but just demonstrate some of the common positions. Like there's the yoga squat. The classic. Right. Then there's Colin. There's the supported yoga squat. Do you know what that is?
Colin True
00:35:15.840 - 00:35:16.960
There's no kink shaming.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:16.960 - 00:35:18.080
There's no kink shaming.
Colin True
00:35:18.080 - 00:35:19.400
There's no king shaming.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:19.640 - 00:35:24.120
You Love doing this podcast with me. You learn something new every time, don't you? Don't you?
Eoin Comerford
00:35:24.200 - 00:35:24.760
I do.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:24.920 - 00:35:27.080
Like the supported yoga squat pooping position.
Colin True
00:35:27.800 - 00:35:30.040
Is that where you support yourself in a yoga squat?
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:30.120 - 00:35:41.480
It's. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you. You. You hang on or, like, press down on something. So usually it's a rock, a log. You can use your trekking poles.
I've actually used my own trowel sometimes just as like, a stabilizer in front of me.
Colin True
00:35:41.480 - 00:35:42.840
Press down while bearing down.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:42.920 - 00:35:56.900
That's basically right.
Okay, you mean when I was a newbie, I also really appreciated having a log, you know, so either like a tree I could lean against or a log that I could kind of position my tail like a floating toilet.
Colin True
00:35:57.140 - 00:35:58.660
So you need a log for your log.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:00.100 - 00:36:03.140
That's also right. Ah, wow.
Colin True
00:36:03.220 - 00:36:05.140
I'm just ending your words, that's all.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:05.380 - 00:36:45.480
Yeah, you're just summarizing. Uhhuh. It's like having AI here with me in the. In the booth. Yeah. Listen, whip snake, just.
Just try to normalize it for her and tell her everybody does it. You get her the book, Everybody poops, everybody farts. Like, everybody does it, and a lot of people do it outside, and she's going to be okay.
It's actually. I think it's liberating waiting to poop outside. I actually have a lot of.
I have a hard time coming back from a trip and being like, oh, I must find a toilet now. Like, I wish I could just squat and pee. No, I do actually really like using a toilet when I get home to poop. But. But yeah, dude, get out there.
I mean, even. Listen, after you do all that, even if she doesn't feel more comfortable, she's probably gonna be laughing her ass off. So that is. That is a win.
Okay, buddy, That's a win.
Colin True
00:36:47.000 - 00:37:04.850
There is a thing here, though, and it's interesting because, like, in my family, I have a kid who has been like, day one, camping as a little kid, like, totally fine, pooping wherever, and then other ones, and my wife included, who are just not into it. Even, like, we're on a river trip and, like, using the groover, there's just a. There's a mental block for some people.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:04.850 - 00:37:05.450
Oh, yeah.
Colin True
00:37:05.450 - 00:37:10.250
To just can't get over the fact. Even though it's like, I just go, like, you're gonna feel better.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:10.570 - 00:37:12.330
Have you tried demonstrating for them?
Colin True
00:37:12.730 - 00:37:15.730
Oh, all the time. But, I mean, that's usually when we're at home. But the.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:15.730 - 00:37:16.890
You played soothing music.
Colin True
00:37:18.770 - 00:37:31.890
But it's funny how, like, sometimes it's just, it's an, like an irrational block for some folks and it's hard to get over even when they do go. And it's like, oh, I'm so glad I went. It's still not like, oh, now I can do that again. It's like the next time will also be challenging. It's funny.
It's a weird thing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:32.050 - 00:37:59.180
No, it is.
And I, I think in general, especially Americans, we have a lot of hang ups about our bodies in general and we're taught to like, hide things and, and that's one of the reasons I love doing this podcast, is we can demystify some of this stuff, but it's, it's also totally normal to feel squeamish and weird about it. Like, again, you, you know, all you could do is all you can do. And if she doesn't want to do it, she doesn't want to do it.
And you know, remember, at the end of the day, everybody shits, but not everybody backpacks. And that's okay.
Colin True
00:37:59.660 - 00:38:03.500
Remember Gear Abby says if you hide your turd, remember where you put it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:04.220 - 00:38:38.250
I never said that, but I don't mind it. Today's episode of Gear Abby is presented by the one, the only, the most delightfully alliterative outdoor retailer in the game, Garage Grown Gear.
You want to see the latest and greatest coming from the coolest and newest outdoor brands. I know you do. You're gonna head over to garagegrowngear.com click on that new button and all shall be revealed. So that's what it's.
It's gonna sound like that. Maybe not in real life, but in your head. Because you've hired Colin and Shantae, the voiceover experts.
Colin True
00:38:38.650 - 00:38:39.290
That's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:39.370 - 00:38:40.490
Navigate your online experience.
Colin True
00:38:40.490 - 00:38:41.130
Call back,
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:43.210 - 00:39:05.720
listen. This week's treasures include stuff for the GPS lover and you like the Coros Apex 4 Sport watch and the Garmin Inreach Mini 3 Plus.
That's a lot of words and also very relevant for today's episode. Shockingly, there's also more Alpha Direct because we are fiends for the stuff.
Big Agnes is making your evenings cozy with an Alpha Direct sleeping bag liner. And honestly, I have never wanted anything more.
Colin True
00:39:05.800 - 00:39:07.360
Are you excited to know about that now?
Shawnté Salabert
00:39:07.360 - 00:40:02.200
I really am. Thank you for looking that one up, Colin. Yeah, I think I've wanted nothing more in my life other than maybe world peace.
And finally, listen, Koros Garmin, Big Agnes. Those are all pretty big names.
But Garage Grown Gear is probably best known for carrying the lightest and most innovative brands and Products you will find this side of your gear closet. Like who, you ask?
Well, how about tokes and their titanium long handle spoon or long handled spork so you can avoid coating your entire fist in whatever you're eating for dinner at camp? That's right.
Whether you're an ultralight backpacker or just an outdoorsy person who wants to see outdoor innovation at its best, you'll find something to love when you head to the official gear shop ofGear Abbey garagegrowngear.com oh, man. Listen, I'm still riding to high off that poo question. It's the first one we've had in a while, so. So I just gotta say thank you again, Whip snake.
You are a real one.
Colin True
00:40:02.840 - 00:40:04.840
We all know that you get high off of poo, so.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:05.080 - 00:40:06.880
That's not exactly what I said, Colin.
Colin True
00:40:06.880 - 00:40:10.520
I think it's exactly what you. I can play it back for you. You know, we were recording this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:10.680 - 00:40:19.080
I. The words came out of my own mouth. I know what I said. Don't gaslight me, Colin. Anyway, how about you do your job instead?
Which is reading another question.
Colin True
00:40:19.480 - 00:40:22.040
Okay. We have a bit of an industry question today.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:22.200 - 00:40:29.820
Oh. Oh, all right. Is this the guy who was looking for a job just writing again? I don't think so. Sending us a fresh resume.
Colin True
00:40:29.820 - 00:40:37.060
I'm just hoping it's an opportunity to shake my fist. You know, those clouds haven't gotten a good down dressing in a second here, you know, so maybe. We'll see.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:37.300 - 00:40:39.300
Okay. I'm sending good vibes to you.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:39.300 - 00:40:39.700
Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:39.700 - 00:40:41.220
I'm not. All right.
Colin True
00:40:42.260 - 00:40:52.020
Third question of the day. Dear Gear Abby, my ties to the outdoor gear industrial scene are more limited than one L. Collins. I think that's a shot at me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:52.580 - 00:40:53.220
I think so.
Colin True
00:40:53.380 - 00:41:07.780
Two L. Collins are posers. I will stand by it, and I will always stand by that. However.
However, I was there long enough to learn lots of arcane insider stuff, including the fact that no answer at darn tough customer support likely meant they'd stepped out for a token. Well, they're in Vermont.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:07.780 - 00:41:08.940
I guess they like them even more. Yeah.
Colin True
00:41:08.940 - 00:41:11.380
Yeah, they are in Vermont. I mean, I think it's like that
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:11.380 - 00:41:15.140
might just be the law there. Yeah, it's part of your business license there when you get it.
Colin True
00:41:15.540 - 00:41:27.020
Perhaps influenced by that. I wear mostly darn tufts these days. All right, good for you. With a few fits sprinkled in.
Thanks to the Rock Fight Rip, former sponsor of the Rock Fight Fits, we're open for business here on your Abbey if you want to check it out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:27.020 - 00:41:28.460
We're ready for. For it. Love socks.
Colin True
00:41:28.700 - 00:41:37.700
Thus, to my question. How has a Vermont sock company survived while outdoor industry titans such as Osprey and the Photenauer family? Is that who owns Osprey?
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:37.700 - 00:41:38.460
That sounds right.
Colin True
00:41:38.620 - 00:41:42.500
Sure, yeah. Osprey Fotenhauer. You know, I know that guy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:42.500 - 00:41:44.860
That's my favorite brand. It's a merger.
Colin True
00:41:45.500 - 00:41:57.420
I've been forced by market conditions to move production overseas. Hell, Patagonia admits that half of their shit is made overseas. Oh, boy. Okay, a little bit of a.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:57.420 - 00:41:59.170
Is your fist, like, vibrating a little bit?
Colin True
00:41:59.320 - 00:42:02.520
Well, come on. I don't even know what the question
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:02.520 - 00:42:03.320
is, to be honest.
Colin True
00:42:03.320 - 00:42:04.360
Sorry, is there a question?
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:04.360 - 00:42:05.400
He said it was a question.
Colin True
00:42:06.520 - 00:42:33.140
Yet Darn Tough continues to offer lifetime guaranteed socks made in Vermont. That is true. And provides jobs to Vermonters who make quality stuff. That is also true.
Vermont, barring a future executive order, is in the USA Respect there. Isn't that impossible? This seems like an Owen Comerford question and could involve things like margins and markets, but maybe partnering gear.
Colin can simplify it for me. Sign find td. Oh, I can simplify it for you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:33.380 - 00:42:38.100
Yeah. Okay, listen, I think, first of all, I think the outdoor industry nerds miss the rock fight, so.
Colin True
00:42:38.180 - 00:42:40.020
Of course they do. It was the best podcast ever.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:40.100 - 00:42:43.620
Okay, well, we did tell them they could write in these questions, so we're gonna.
Colin True
00:42:44.100 - 00:42:44.980
That's your fault.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:45.140 - 00:43:15.059
It is my fault. So apologies to everyone listening. But if. If you asked me td, I. I was the one answering this question.
I would just say, I have no idea how darn tough is able to keep production in the usa. And then I would pivot to. But, man, people sure seem to like them.
And then I might add, even though they don't make socks with individual toes, which is my personal preference, and then I might turn to our old buddy here, 1L, Colin, and I would say, dude, what do you think? But we're not going to do that. Sorry, Colin. Maybe you could pontificate afterwards, but I'm
Colin True
00:43:15.059 - 00:43:16.740
just vibrating with anger over here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:16.740 - 00:43:26.590
You just sit over there and shiver in your recording booth. We are going to go straight to everyone's favorite outdoor industry wonk for an answer to this one. That. That is Owen Comerford.
Colin True
00:43:26.670 - 00:43:30.910
Who is this like a Beetlejuice situation where the reader invokes Owen. Now you are.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:31.230 - 00:44:10.760
Three times. It's going to happen. He's going to appear so.
So for everyone listening, if you're not familiar with Owen, he's not only very good at Wordle, but he is also the former CEO of moosejaw. And perhaps more importantly, former consigliery of the rock fight.
He runs Outsize Consulting, where he works on growth strategies with badass outdoor brands like Livesing, Nara Thicket, you were Wild Rye. Like, Keep Going.
And he's the host of the brand new Outdoor Unfiltered podcast, which will be very exciting for people who enjoy smart analysis of industry news and who love listening to Owen whisper sweet nothings about tariffs. Welcome to Gear Abbey. Owen, so good to have you here.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:11.720 - 00:44:23.640
Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I've been listening to Gear Abbey since the early days, and I'm very honored to be a guest on your podcast.
I'm not following any kind of questions about poop, though. That's my one requirement.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:23.880 - 00:44:30.100
Yeah, no, you are. Yeah, that's the only. That was our requirement, actually, to have you on the show.
Colin True
00:44:30.100 - 00:44:32.900
So I think we saved that question specifically for this moment.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:32.980 - 00:44:39.580
Yeah, it could have been worse. That's all I'm saying. Okay, it could have been a worse question. This one's pretty tame in the scheme of poop questions.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:39.580 - 00:44:44.580
All right, I guess I'll just have to listen to the pod when it comes out and see what the heck we're talking about here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:44.580 - 00:45:13.120
That's right. As you've been doing since the early days. As you said, you were an early adopter, so hold that in your heart.
So listen, If I'm boiling TD's question down to its essence, so when so many outdoor brands have had to go overseas for manufacturing, manufacturing, I mean, that's pretty much the norm.
Like, how the hell has darn Tough managed to keep theirs going in the land of Ben and Jerry's and Bernie Sanders and Owen, if you could do me a favor and please answer in a way that people who don't read Bloomberg can understand, that would be great.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:14.160 - 00:46:00.470
So it's all about labor cost and productivity, right? So socks are made. Almost all socks are made of computerized knitting machines. And these things just pump out the socks. And.
And really, from a labor perspective, one person can oversee 50, 60, even 70 machines. So the labor cost per sock is super low. And it's really the labor cost that is what drives the efficiencies of being overseas versus here.
So you compare that to cut and sew, which would be clothing and apparel, or even packs, those packs and bags, that kind of stuff. Those are very, very labor intensive.
And so there's a much bigger efficiency to being overseas for products like that versus something that's almost all machine made.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:00.950 - 00:46:11.990
So you're saying if I want to start my own outdoor business. I should start with socks just like American Eagle branded, like Rah Rah usa. Get myself a sock machine and just start a sock empire.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:12.630 - 00:46:13.670
Pretty much, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:13.670 - 00:46:14.150
Would you.
Colin True
00:46:14.150 - 00:46:15.910
We don't have nearly enough sock brands in the outdoor.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:16.070 - 00:46:27.370
Yeah. And there's just so many feet out there. So it feels like. Would you. Could I consult with you and outsize.
Would you help me with growth and profitability, Owen?
Eoin Comerford
00:46:28.250 - 00:46:33.370
I would love to do that. And for you, Shantae, you would be part of the pro bono program.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:34.330 - 00:46:45.290
Okay. I can't wait. So, Colin, we might have to put the OnlyFans on hold or we could wrap the OnlyFans into a sock manufacturing company.
And it's like for people with a foot fetish.
Colin True
00:46:46.010 - 00:46:52.910
Look, we all know the kind of work you get from pro bono, so I think we want the OnlyFans to fund our outsize consulting business is what
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:52.910 - 00:46:55.830
we're going to do. Well, we'll help you. You help us, we'll help you.
Colin True
00:46:57.030 - 00:46:57.430
So.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:57.430 - 00:47:29.260
So is there anything else about Darn Tough? Because I do think they have kind of a unique model. I mean, a.
They have that whole thing where people and through hikers love this in particular, but you stop in a trail town and you've got a hole in your darn tufts. As long as the store is part of the exchange program, you know, they can get a new pair of socks.
So is there anything else that really drives Darn Toughs? I think they're kind of to talk about domination in the stock market, but maybe that can all, you know, maybe it could also be part of the only fans.
What, like, is that. What else is part of their special sauce? Why are they such a sock dominator?
Eoin Comerford
00:47:30.060 - 00:48:09.600
Well, just because of the fact that they do have such a strong brand and such a strong reputation, they've got the pricing power to where they can charge 12, 15, 18, $20 for a pair of socks. Right.
And so the marginal impact of an extra whatever, whatever 25 cents of labor here versus overseas is really washed out by the fact that they have that pricing power.
If you're, if you're making socks for, you know, for, for Walmart or, or for mass retail, that, that's where it really, you know, those, those pennies really add up. And maybe you can't make it work in the US but for, for a premium player like, like Darren Tough, you absolutely can.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:10.080 - 00:48:17.360
I like that a premium player. This is. People listening now are like, who is this guy if they don't know you and people who do know you Are like this is very restrained for o.
Colin True
00:48:18.600 - 00:48:36.920
Oh, and do you find it in terms of competitive landscape because you have. Smartwool is probably still the dominant, you know, merino wool sock in the outdoor industry.
But aren't the retail price points fairly comparable between Smartwool and Darn Tough? And Smartwool does manufacture overseas. Right. They are not a U.S. producer. So is that just, are they just.
Do they have better margins because of that?
Eoin Comerford
00:48:38.600 - 00:48:49.160
So, and, and, and there are, there are quite a few sock brands there that, that are, that are US Based. I'd say it's a, it's a little bit split and I think, I think smartwell does have some, some US based manufacturing as well.
Colin True
00:48:49.780 - 00:48:51.180
They used to. I don't know if they still do.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:51.180 - 00:49:01.220
Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, I think most of the premium players are made here for that reason.
Although, you know, obviously they're importing a lot of the wool at this point as well.
Shawnté Salabert
00:49:02.020 - 00:49:29.210
Yeah, all those international sheep. So here's a question kind of. I'm, I'm gonna riff off of this one for a second, but. So you're saying I, I get what you're saying here.
You get your little knitting machines, you make some socks, you're having a good time, you gotta lower, you know that you can pump up the prices, you get whatever, it's all working. So is, does this mean that there are options for other outdoor brands to bring their manufacturing back to the U.S. are we going to see a boom?
You know, I mean, is there going to be a wool sock factory in every town?
Eoin Comerford
00:49:30.010 - 00:51:05.460
Maybe on the sock front, although it is, it's very, very expensive. Right. So yes, the, the, the incremental cost per sock is low, but those knitting machines cost a shit ton of money. Right.
And that is kind of the issue, I think, with the current administration and their policies in terms of bringing manufacturing back is the manufacturing that does work in the US is very capital intensive. That is, you've got to pay a lot of money to get machines because you can't afford to pay the labor rates here versus overseas.
So it's a lot of money and you're not going to do that if you don't know what the tariff is going to be a day from now, a week from now, or whatever. Right. I mean, just look at, you know, recently the Supreme Court just knocked down tariffs.
So if you had been, you know, planning on bringing back a whole bunch of manufacturing to the US Based on the fact that you, you were paying these big tariffs, well, guess what? Those tariffs went away. You Know, so it's just. It's so hard for folks to make those manufacturing decisions to bring stuff back here.
Not to mention that, like, in the areas that we talk about in the outdoor industry, which is, again, a lot of cut and sew garments, packs, bags, et cetera, a lot of that labor actually is immigrant labor that is also evaporating based upon the policies of the current administration. So. So, you know, the whole tariff thing being all about bringing manufacturing back to the US Is completely. I mean, it just is. It isn't working.
It's all about just having a cudgel to be able to go out and swing something around. Something basically.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:05.460 - 00:51:06.580
An unspecified something.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:06.580 - 00:51:16.640
Yes, an unspecified something to basically try to bully other nations into doing what we want them to do. That's really what the whole tower of things about.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:17.040 - 00:51:21.840
And if there's anybody that could explain this and I could be like, yes, you are correct. It is you, Owen.
Colin True
00:51:22.800 - 00:51:25.520
And thank you. I don't have to shake my fist anymore. You took care of that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:25.760 - 00:51:29.920
You don't want to swing us something, though. You could swing us something not specified something.
Colin True
00:51:30.000 - 00:51:32.359
We don't have the only fans up and running yet, Shantay.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:32.359 - 00:51:32.760
All right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:32.760 - 00:51:38.640
But. Oh, and you're invited to join us when that time comes. We will use it to pay for your labor. So keep your labor.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:38.880 - 00:51:43.760
That would be the ultimate sock influencer program, I'd say. Think, you know, yeah.
Colin True
00:51:44.960 - 00:51:47.760
On board. Right. They're, you know, they're famous for that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:48.080 - 00:51:54.640
Listen, Darn tough Fitz. I. I would welcome you both to join in this endeavor in Gingi, if you want. I know I can never say your name right.
Colin True
00:51:55.520 - 00:51:56.000
You did it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:56.000 - 00:52:13.220
No, that's because I. I have to think about it for a good five seconds every time before I say it now, because I cannot be embarrassed on a podcast anymore. Well. Oh, and one. One final question is from me. Very important question. What's your favorite outdoor sock, Owen, for all your outdoor activities.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:14.100 - 00:52:22.260
Wow. Okay, So I. I'm actually a smart wool person, mainly because, like, almost everything else that I wear, I got them for free.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:22.980 - 00:52:26.140
So I love the honesty.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:26.140 - 00:52:26.500
Okay.
Colin True
00:52:26.500 - 00:52:29.940
And that's how you know he works in the outdoor industry. Yes, sir.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:30.900 - 00:53:03.240
Oh, man. Well, Owen, it was lovely to have you. I'm so excited to dig into your new pod again. For people who are listening, that is outdoor Unfiltered.
You're going to get more Owen. Maybe no poop talk. I'm sorry to say, unless he has me on, we could talk about Big Bidet anytime you want. Okay. Big trowel. Like big teepee.
Anything but. Yeah. Oh, and thanks so much for joining us today. Demystifying the world of domestic socks and. Yeah, all right, well, have a lovely rest of your day.
May your feet always be cozy.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:03.880 - 00:53:04.440
Thank you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:06.120 - 00:53:46.030
Ah. Well, that's it for this episode of Gear X.
Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places, pastimes and poop over to dear gearabbymail.com and I'm gonna do my best to answer them or find somebody else, like our conciliary Owen Comerford, who can.
And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe rate and leave a lovely review about kink shaming or not kink shaming and make our day. Follow us on Instagram at Gearabi Pod if you are so inclined.
In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and this dude, Colin True, the gatekeeper. Why did you say it like that?
Colin True
00:53:46.190 - 00:53:47.550
Because I didn't make you laugh.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:48.030 - 00:53:50.870
You did. You did. And also, you're showing your range, so thanks.
Colin True
00:53:50.870 - 00:53:52.310
Yeah, that's right. You got to go high sometimes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:52.310 - 00:53:56.910
That's right. Our direction provided by Sarah Gensert.
Colin True
00:53:57.230 - 00:54:00.610
Love it. Show tunes all about showtunes abound.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:01.010 - 00:54:07.330
I don't even like show tunes. I'm Shantay Salair. And remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.
