The Rock Fight Deep Dive: Fabric Innovation Isn’t Dead (But It’s Different)
- colin7931
- 3 days ago
- 24 min read
Introducing The Rock Fight Deep Dive! A new series where we team up with a partner for a deeper look at an outdoor industry topic.
Today Colin takes an unfiltered look at the state of fabric innovation in the outdoor industry by heading to the Functional Fabric Fair in Portland, Oregon.
Prompted by a listener letter asking whether the industry’s obsession with lifestyle over performance has killed innovation, Colin hits the trade show floor to find out for himself.
He’s joined by:
Charles Ross, performance material expert, who defines true innovation as “solving real problems — not just changing colors.”
Michelle Rose, designer and founder of Struktur Society, who argues that imagination and play—not process—drive breakthroughs.
Greg Garrigues, Director of Innovation at Mountain Hardwear, who insists innovation is about diligence and iteration, not just creativity.
Mya Franklin of LifeLabs, a new textile company pushing thermal-regulation fabrics born from Stanford research.
Stewart Sheppard, sustainability veteran, who explains that consumers don’t dream of “green products” — they dream of great gear that works and feels good.
And Ben Ryan, formerly of The North Face and Salomon, who reminds us that the spark of excitement and curiosity still fuels every real innovation.
What did we find when we dove deep? Innovation isn’t dead — it’s just not where you used to look for it.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:40.590
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True, and today is a very special episode of the Rock Fight as we take a look at the big question of innovation in the outdoor industry. But first, some programming reminders.
We never want you to miss an episode of the Rock Fight, so please click follow on the podcast app you're using right now. Hey, do you want more from the Rock Fight? Subscribe to News from the front the Rock Fight semi weekly newsletter.
Head to rockflight co to sign up today and we want to hear from you. Email us@myrockflightmail.com, reach out on LinkedIn, reach out on Instagram, send us a message. We want to hear from you.
All right, let's get into today's show.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:40.670 - 00:00:44.510
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:46.590 - 00:07:56.550
Hello and welcome to a very special edition of the Rock Fight. This is the first of what we hope will be a series of what we're calling the Rock Fight Deep Dive.
If you're a regular rock fighter, you know we like to keep things moving. And with our new Deep Dive series, we want to take a step back and go, well, a little deeper.
Look, there's a lot about our industry that just can't be covered in a lightning round. So we're launching the Deep Dive series so we can dig into issues and ideas with a little more thoughtfulness and give them the air they need.
And for each of these episodes, we're partnering up with someone who is equally curious and who can financially make it happen. And Today's partner is LifeLabs, a new performance fabric maker who is focused on temperature regulation.
You'll hear more about them shortly, but know that even though we have a partner on this very special Rock Flight, the opinions and thoughts you're going to hear are still my own. Okay, let's hear from our sponsor and then dive deep. At Life Labs, where science meets unmatched comfort.
We combine revolutionary textile innovation with advanced material science to redefine human performance and everyday well being. Our thermoregulation technologies are born from Nobel caliber research delivering scientifically proven comfort solutions.
Two breakthrough technologies, one perfect balance. Life Labs pioneers both sides of thermal comfort with our proprietary systems.
Warm Life Technology intelligent temperature regulation and body heat retention for lightweight, uncompromising worth with optimal breathability and cool Life Technology continuous cooling when you need it the most. Engineered to work together or stand alone, these technologies adapt to any environment.
Our patented technologies integrate invisibly into fabrics offering durable, high performance comfort without sacrificing style or functionality and attention to designers, product managers, and visionary brands. The future of performance wear is here. Why wait? Want to discuss how to integrate Warm Life and Cool Life technologies into your next product line?
Contact our team today for partnership opportunities, licensing options, or custom development projects. Together, let's create the next generation of intelligent apparel.
Check us out at lifelabs.designlifelabs the future of Feel Good Performance okay, these deep dives are going to be a little bit different than our normal format, but also one that hits at the heart of a topic that those of us who operate in the outdoor industry talk about a lot. The today's topic Innovation. Specifically as it pertains to outdoor apparel. And like many good stories or podcasts, this one begins with a letter.
Okay, it's an email, which is in fact an electronic letter, but you know what I'm saying, It's starting with a letter. And that letter goes hello Rock Fighters. I recently listened to your episode titled can the Outdoor Industry Redefine Innovation?
And it has me thinking about the role textiles play in today's outdoor industry. Are functional fabrics no longer considered a vital factor in advancing active or outdoor?
Should we think of performance textiles nowadays as outdoor adjacent? I'm aware that material suppliers have decamped to functional fabric fare from other trade shows.
I was lucky to be on the outdoor scene during its heyday of material innovation.
Another day, another whiz bang high tech wonder fabric and have stuck around long enough to witness how the industry has evolved in new and different ways. I'm interested in your take on textiles, both currently and the trajectory of performance fabrics going forward.
Do you believe that the casualization of outdoor plays a part in diminishing the importance of performance textiles as a driver of innovation? Signed Emily. Well, there's a lot there, but Emily's is a great place to start today because as I'm recording this episode, it is October.
Now, October means a number of things to all of us. Most importantly, of course, it's spooky season and Halloween is the greatest holiday of of the year.
But aside from spooky season, October means that fall trade shows are on our doorstep, regional rep shows are happening, Goa Connect is less than a month away, and the running event is just around the corner.
But there's one upcoming show that definitely falls into the if you know, you know camp when it comes to the outdoor industry, and Emily refers to it in her email.
It's a show that if you work on a product team or at an apparel brand, you definitely know about it, but for the most part it still kind of flies under the radar.
That show is Functional Fabric Fair so Functional Fabric Fair is an event held twice a year that is effectively a trade show for performance materials.
So think of the brands we all love to wear and talk about here in the outdoor industry and when they need to shop for fibers and fabrics for the products they make. A trade show like Functional Fabric is a place where they can shop. Lots of product development teams show up for this event.
Functional Fabric grew out of a European event called Performance Days that highlighted the need for a show like this.
Prior to Performance Days, most people looking to shop for the components that make up our products would head to the sourcing portions of Outdoor Retailer or ispo.
And thanks to the changing trade show landscape, Performance Days grew from being a trade show for thread heads that has now expanded into seven different events held across the world in places like Shanghai, Munich, New York City and Portland, Oregon. Now Portland is the focus of today's episode because the event happens there twice every year, once in the spring and again in the fall.
Hello October. So add FFF to the slate of post spooky season trade shows we just mentioned.
And credit to Emily mentioning the show in her email because you could honestly make the case that Functional Fabric is the most consequential show on the outdoor industry trade show calendar. Because despite popular opinion, this is where innovation can actually happen. And we love to talk about innovation here in the outdoor industry.
Critics of outdoor brands will often say that a lack of innovation at those brands is the biggest problem our industry faces. Historians will talk about the innovation that led to our industry achieving billions of dollars in annual revenue.
Innovation is canon to the industry, both past and present, but the definition of innovation is wildly subjective. My personal point of view is that innovation doesn't end at the performance characteristics of a fiber, yarn, fabric or product.
I think that our industry is constantly innovating beyond just the most basic level of how something performs when using it outside. But if you hang out in places like LinkedIn, you'll find jaded old guys who don't want to admit that things may be changing out there.
They'll say that innov is gone, that the industry needs to get back to innovating now. They'll never tell you what they exactly mean by that statement. They mostly just don't like that things are different now than they used to be.
So I decided to see for myself what was happening on the innovation front by heading up to Portland this past April and luckily I had a ride.
So, quick disclosure that this very special episode was made possible by Life Labs, who is a new textile maker attempting to get noticed by outdoor apparel brands.
I wanted to talk to some of their people about fabric innovation, so they hosted me at Functional Fabric and you're going to get to hear from them in just a little bit. And that's how I got up to PDX for FFF to explore the state of innovation in the outdoor industry in 2025.
While there, I got a chance to speak to a number of people that you're going to hear from today.
Innovation executives, designers, those focused on sustainability, a bunch of different voices with their own specific interests that will help me better understand the state of innovation today. And hopefully this will help out Emily too. So see, like I said, a very different, very special episode of the Rock fight.
So hey, let's dig in and let's do it with some guy named Charles. So what is innovation then? Like, how do you define the word new?
Charles Ross
00:07:57.030 - 00:08:14.930
Different stuff I don't understand. I can most probably use about 10 different ways to describe it, but to me it is new to me, whether me is the market or.
Yeah, no, it's a really good question. Innovation is new and different.
Colin True
00:08:15.410 - 00:08:39.690
So I wanted to get started by understanding what I was seeking and Charles Ross is the right place to do that. Charles is a staple of the performance material scene and teaches at the Royal College of Art.
So as I was looking to learn more about what's happening with innovation in the outdoors, he was a logical place to get going. But it needs to be more than that though, right?
Because I mean, you could have a button down shirt that is a different color from last season and that's technically new and different. Right? I mean, there's gotta be a little.
Charles Ross
00:08:39.690 - 00:09:10.590
Something deeper to the innovation if you're serious.
Within the performance sportswear design market, it depends how thick your skin is in, how fast you will get laughed out for having a button down collar. But no, you are being very technically correct. Perhaps I should use the affirmative way. Does it get me excited?
If it gets me excited, that's another way to describe it. But I'm trying to give you the very formal left brain way rather than the creative right brain way.
Colin True
00:09:11.760 - 00:09:50.460
Well, I think, you know, you had mentioned in our first conversation that it was more about problem solving and I think that is, you know, kind of what you're alluding to here. Right? I mean the.
I notice on there's platforms like LinkedIn and people make These kind of broad, sweeping comments like, oh, the industry needs to get back to innovating. And that kind of frustrates me because it is sort of this conversation, like, what do you mean by that? What are you seeing that's not happening?
Because, you know, and because some people will say, like, well, we have a, a suite of new colors in this established garment and that that is new and innovative. And other people are saying, like, no, no, to be solving problems. But what are those problems that we're solving and does that evolve?
You know, I think that's sort of the disconnect on the topic in the industry today.
Charles Ross
00:09:50.620 - 00:10:54.820
Yeah. To pull it back to innovation in design is exactly what you're describing.
It's making what design does better than anything else is it makes life easier. And there was a great book written about the myths on Everest by Mike Parsons and Mary Rose, and they actually stuck their.
Their thumb on it when they just said, the best gear is the gear that you never know that you're wearing everything. You encompass a problem. It's irritable. It has a problem.
And if I give a really vile example of this, the best ice climbing gloves that you can ever have are the ones with the snot rag already attached between the thumb and the finger, because nobody wants to admit it. When you're ice climbing, your nose is running and that's the easiest way. Take it off your face. So it's, how can you solve a problem?
Whether that problem is embarrassing or performance or whatever, the best gear solves problem.
Colin True
00:10:56.180 - 00:11:22.820
Okay. That all stands to reason with what we've come to expect from innovation over the past 50 years.
And what Charles is saying is definitely the kicking off point for anyone who's making stuff for outdoor pursuits or likely anything else that solves a problem.
But Charles also mentioned design as part of the innovation process, which also makes sense, because if you're developing solutions to problems, how the final product is designed is crucial to making sure your solution is marketable. So as I left Charles to go do whatever Charles does at these events.
Charles Ross
00:11:22.900 - 00:11:25.340
This is Charles going down another rabbit hole.
Colin True
00:11:25.340 - 00:11:41.030
I was left to seek out a designer to speak to, and luckily, I found one of them in the form of former Rock Fight guest Michelle Rose.
Now, Michelle has worked as a designer at brands like the North Face and Columbia, and her company, Structure Society, hosts a podcast and events that focus on design along with a myriad of other topics.
Michelle Rose
00:11:41.580 - 00:14:32.350
Oh, I mean, I think there's so many opinions of where we are with innovation, but there's been a feeling for quite A while of stagnation in innovation. And, you know, I think it changes. It's just kind of like everything right now, everything is changing daily.
My opinion on everything and all the information I'm taking in, so we're starting to move through that. But we really stagnated in innovation, in the chase for survival, for money, you know, for product, for simplicity, for volume. We have hindsight.
When we look back on the 70s, 80s, 90s and where we've innovated, we didn't, we weren't in those time periods saying we're innovating. We weren't word yet. And what it was was a curiosity, it was an excitement, it was passion.
And as we talked about before, instead of innovation, it was this idea of imagination. What doesn't exist? What do we want?
And it was all about people who were so passionate about doing the activity and there wasn't a lot of product there to enhance every activity and make all this money. There was a lot of opportunity just sitting out in front and people were just very excited. Think about the snowboard culture.
There's so much punk rock culture through there that the diy, we're going to paint our graphics ourselves, we're going to make everything ourselves. Sewing things out of vans, you know, as they're driving through the, through the mountains. That's what was happening.
And then in the 90s, like everything else, it became big business, it became big commercialization, and then it became about volume. And now we've hit that space where we have too much of everything.
And in order to actually, you know, imagine new ideas and get things going, it takes a bit more money, you know, like, for any of us who've tried to start brands, which is a lot of us, I've seen a lot of us try, a lot of people do really well and it doesn't, you know, come to fruition. It's very difficult now to. To do what it used to be able. You used to be able to do.
And now technology is so big and so expensive and so vast and AI is coming like a freight train. But that also brings new opportunity. It just means we have to think differently.
So these ideas of formulas, of how we've created formulas to get a business to grow, how we've created formulas to innovate, quote unquote, and come up with the next big story, you know, the formulas, you've got to ignore them. You've got to play. And that's what we're talking about.
Imagination and play and getting in there and just tinkering and getting messy and being willing to have it go nowhere.
Colin True
00:14:34.910 - 00:16:19.550
Okay, so that's some big, heady stuff that honestly aligns with a lot of what we see in the industry. But it's also big, heady stuff, right? I mean, how do you apply something like that to the rigors of actually making stuff?
It's one thing to have a broad sense of creativity to draw from, but eventually you have to channel all of that into something that will exist and a consumer will want to buy. Which brings me to the brands, because at the end of the day, it is the brands that have to decide to innovate and bring new products to market.
I mean, how does that creativity that Michelle spoke of translate into that reality? Well, that's where Greg Garagus from Mountain Hardware comes in. Greg is their director of innovation.
And Mountain Hardware arrived on the scene in the 1990s through more traditional innovation means. But for the first part of the 2000s, they had sort of fallen to the back of the pack when it came to outdoor apparel brands.
Longtime listeners of the Rock Fight will know that they've recently refreshed their brand and deployed innovation in different ways in order to regain relevance with their consumers. Greg was part of those efforts, so I was curious if he agreed with Michelle's point of view on creativity, imagination, and design.
You mentioned creativity earlier, and we had a bit of a breakthrough in one of our conversations today because, like, I often bristle a lot of times on, like, LinkedIn, and you see these kind of big blanket, you know, verbose statements of, like, ah, the industry just needs to get back to innovating. And I'm like, what do you mean by that? It's got to mean about, like, using the word maybe, not how it should be used in this case.
And we kind of came at this as, like, you know, but what people are really saying is we're lacking imagination, right? And the creativity process is almost what leads innovation.
And when you do get to a point and you're owned by a big brand or it just becomes the dollars, it's pretty easy to put that creativity, that imagination aside and be like, well, as long as we're iterating on what we have, it'll be fine. Right? We're innovating. Right, guys? You know? Do you agree with that?
Greg Garrigues
00:16:20.590 - 00:16:21.190
I don't.
Chris DeMakes
00:16:21.190 - 00:16:21.470
No.
Greg Garrigues
00:16:21.470 - 00:16:22.150
Oh, no.
Colin True
00:16:22.150 - 00:16:22.510
Okay.
Greg Garrigues
00:16:22.510 - 00:16:23.190
Not entirely.
Colin True
00:16:23.190 - 00:16:24.310
Okay, great. This is good.
Greg Garrigues
00:16:24.310 - 00:16:24.590
Yeah.
Colin True
00:16:24.590 - 00:16:26.200
Show's called the Rock Fight, man. So let's get this.
Greg Garrigues
00:16:26.350 - 00:16:32.630
I think creativity is important, but I also think a diligent approach to solving the problem is Key too.
Colin True
00:16:32.630 - 00:16:33.030
Okay.
Greg Garrigues
00:16:33.030 - 00:17:22.190
It's not just about breaking through with something new. It's about doing it in a smarter, better way. No, there's plenty of solutions like that, but I think the business models may be the one to look at.
I mean, oftentimes new businesses enter the industry or an industry because they're close to a consumer. They hear what their needs are and their challenges are and they come with a. With a solution that isn't being offered by somebody else.
And we call those big breakthroughs painkillers. People love vitamins. It makes them feel good, but they really make change in their decision and their purchasing when they are offered a painkiller.
So we're always trying to bring painkillers to our consumers. The language doesn't really resonate with outdoor people always. But. But that's what it is, right? I mean, we. No one says no to a painkiller.
Colin True
00:17:22.350 - 00:17:34.630
That's true. But don't you need that creativity, though?
I mean, don't you need to sort of like the moment of inspiration to kind of lead to like, what the, what you are ultimately selling them? Isn't that important, I think, I think.
Greg Garrigues
00:17:34.630 - 00:17:36.190
Creativity is still a tough word for me.
Colin True
00:17:36.190 - 00:17:36.630
Okay.
Greg Garrigues
00:17:36.630 - 00:17:53.480
I think it's just being open minded, having a steel gut to like hearing a lot of no because you're going to, you're going to explore and you're going to hear, hear no because your idea didn't work and being able to move on to the next idea and the next idea and pivot from the earlier ones.
Colin True
00:17:53.480 - 00:17:53.880
Sure.
Greg Garrigues
00:17:55.560 - 00:18:05.560
Innovation. Oftentimes we use the phrase failing forward. We don't fail, but we fail forward and we learn from those. Those moments where we didn't.
Didn't have a success.
Colin True
00:18:05.800 - 00:18:06.120
Right.
Greg Garrigues
00:18:06.120 - 00:18:08.360
We pivot, we refocus, we reposition.
Chris DeMakes
00:18:08.520 - 00:18:08.920
Yeah.
Greg Garrigues
00:18:08.920 - 00:18:12.740
So no, I think it's more of a diligent practice. Interesting creativity.
Colin True
00:18:12.740 - 00:19:37.220
Okay. Okay. So on one hand, we have a designer who says it's all about imagination.
On the other hand, we have the pragmatic director who knows that they can't rely on pure creativity to achieve the desired end result. Sitting in the middle of that Venn diagram are the people who actually make the fabrics that need to perform.
Now, I spent a good chunk of my career at Polar Tech, and I can tell you that it's both an insightful and frustrating place to be.
It's the place where creativity and function need to merge, the place where performance innovation needs to happen and also be able to prove that it's happening. This is where those old Jada Guys who are complaining on LinkedIn think nothing new is actually happening out there.
And to a certain extent, they're right. I mean, back in the 90s, there were big performance innovation breakthroughs happening all the time.
Since then, big category shifts have been fewer and far between, but innovation continues to happen both on the process and fabric front.
Life Labs, for example, the folks who helped bring me to the show are focused on different applications to help regulate temperature, and they're looking to create new types of fabric innovations in the hopes that one day someone like Mountain Hardwear will adopt their fabrics.
While I was in Portland, I sat down with Maya Franklin, who's Life Lab's head of North America, and I asked her how she felt about the current state of fabric innovation. Here's what she had to say.
All right, so just to ramp up, because this show is called the rock fight, and we like to throw rocks at convention and things that we have an issue with. And I look at what you guys are doing, and I'm not saying this because you paid for me to be here even though you did. So thank you.
It will be cut off. No, I'll probably leave that in.
Mya Franklin
00:19:37.220 - 00:19:37.740
But the.
Colin True
00:19:38.190 - 00:19:45.390
But it's, you know, so when you look at the industry as a whole, do you see kind of a lack of innovation? Do you think there should be more?
Mya Franklin
00:19:46.030 - 00:19:51.630
Well, when I, when the owner was approaching me, you know, to join this company.
Colin True
00:19:51.950 - 00:19:52.630
From Stanford.
Mya Franklin
00:19:52.630 - 00:19:53.630
Yeah, from Stanford.
Colin True
00:19:53.710 - 00:19:54.349
Professor.
Mya Franklin
00:19:54.830 - 00:20:35.440
Professor, yes. And also the. Some of investors, they are pretty famous, you know.
And then when they approached me to join this company, I was like, kind of tentative because I don't know, I have the same impression as you have, you know, because in recent years we didn't see a tremendous, like a new technology in this market, you know, to benefit the brands and the consumers. So I visit some of the functional fabric fair shows. I want to see how it is in the market because my background is very strong from the, the brands.
I work in the brands as a product development.
Colin True
00:20:35.760 - 00:20:36.120
Sure.
Mya Franklin
00:20:36.120 - 00:20:45.680
And also I worked in very. The leading company in the fiber industry in different ones for like recent 15 years.
Colin True
00:20:45.840 - 00:20:46.400
Okay.
Mya Franklin
00:20:46.560 - 00:21:31.950
So I want to see what kind of technology, especially new technology in this market.
And I with some of the exhibitions of the professional exhibitions and I feel like, okay, I have to be with this company because they really able to change the world and be a game changer. So this is our ambition.
At the moment we're still small because we just start to educate the market in the business level and also in the consumer level. Will be later. But I think this will be very interesting. I would say mission, it's a job.
But for me, I got a lot of fun talking with the people to show what is the innovation, how to change your product, how to change your life to help you to make money. You know, that's important.
Colin True
00:21:32.830 - 00:22:54.070
Ultimately, you have to. Otherwise, what are you going to do? Like, you're not going to be around. So you have to make money doing it. Otherwise, it doesn't work.
Okay, we've heard from a designer. We've now heard from someone who makes fabrics. We've also heard from someone who has to actually produce finished garments.
The last piece we need to talk about here is the sustainability part, because that's a huge part of this conversation. At least it is in the outdoor industry.
At Functional Fabric, they hosted what's called the Sustainability Lounge, featuring 16 brands or technologies that were focused on improving the impact fabric making has on the environment.
A guy named Stuart shepherd was the host of the Lounge, and he's someone whose career has stretched across brands like Gore and Worldly, all with a focus on sustainability. So after touring the Lounge, I had a chance to chat with Stuart about the role of sustainability and its influence on innovation.
So I asked you, when we were on our tour, I mentioned how a lot of times consumers aren't demanding this. Right. Consumers are mostly. They buy things based off of price or how it makes them feel.
And then if, like, oh, this is a more sustainably made garment, like, hey, that's the cherry on top. Yeah. So does that matter? Do you feel like we'll. Who's driving the innovation?
Is it the people who just care so deeply about this or people who want to solve the problems?
Do you think there's a way to get consumers more on board with, you know, being involved, kind of pushing from that end so that we do find more innovative ways to solve some of these problems?
Stewart Sheppard
00:22:54.070 - 00:22:55.990
Can we have a whole podcast about that?
Colin True
00:22:55.990 - 00:22:58.100
Yeah, we talked.
Chris DeMakes
00:22:58.260 - 00:22:58.700
You should.
Colin True
00:22:58.700 - 00:22:59.220
Come on.
Stewart Sheppard
00:23:02.020 - 00:23:31.330
So there are five, maybe a small 5% of people that are really going to buy a product because it is environmentally friendly. But the general reality is nobody goes to bed at night dreaming of sustainability. They dream of going outside.
They dream of a cool garment that makes them look good. They dream of something that's super practical. So in sustainability, it's more of a gift with purchase.
Colin True
00:23:32.930 - 00:23:34.250
It's like the right thing to do.
Stewart Sheppard
00:23:34.250 - 00:23:53.790
It's the right thing to do, but people will not buy a product just because it's green. And very often there are what you call punishment products.
There's a very famous hybrid car that a lot of environmentalists drive that I personally feel like is the ugliest car in the world.
Chris DeMakes
00:23:54.510 - 00:23:54.910
Why?
Stewart Sheppard
00:23:55.710 - 00:24:07.310
Why did it have to be designed like that? When you put it next to a Tesla, which car do people want to buy? They want to buy the Tesla because it's cool. Because they did want to.
Colin True
00:24:07.390 - 00:24:08.150
They did want to.
Chris DeMakes
00:24:08.150 - 00:24:08.470
Yeah.
Colin True
00:24:08.470 - 00:24:10.350
This is a good example a few months ago.
Stewart Sheppard
00:24:11.310 - 00:25:26.240
But I get where you're going in terms of design. So you also have to think about the design of the products.
Make them desirable because they work, because they're beautiful and because they have a lower impact. Or use a material that is renewable or have been made in a factory where the workers are treated in a fair way.
I think what's amazing about all these sustainability questions is that there were not problems five years ago. So we don't have off the shelf solutions.
So any solution is going to be an innovation because we're going to take an old technology and apply it to something that we hadn't thought about. There are people using wastewater treatment from breweries to create energy.
So they're using the waste from the breweries to create energy because there's a lot of stuff in there. There are people taking CO2 from smokestacks and making polyester from that CO2. And this is where innovation comes in to solve these problems.
Because today we don't have the answer to those problems or they're not off the shelf.
Colin True
00:25:27.520 - 00:26:40.960
Okay, we've heard all of these thoughts and all of these opinions from all of these people. So now's the time that I have to tie it all together, right?
Where I declare innovation to be alive and well in the outdoor industry, or that we should abandon the notion that innovation plays a role in the creation of new outdoor apparel?
Well, I guess what I have to say is that those loud voices on outdoor industry LinkedIn who really want to get attention by saying brands simply need to get back to innovating should probably spend a day at a place like Functional Fabric Fair.
Because while it may not be like it was 30 years ago, there is still plenty going on when it comes to finding new ways to keep us warm, cool, dry or safe in the outdoors.
Whether it's the approach of a designer like Michelle, the application of something new or old by someone like Mountain Hardware's Greg, or to play sustainability catch up and shine a light on new efforts like Stewart, innovation is happening. But like a lot of the topics we address here on the Rock Fight Network, there is simply change happening that makes it not like it used to be.
Alright, so one last person I got to speak to and I'll give him the final word today, was Ben Ryan.
Ben was also there with Life Labs, but over the course of his outdoor industry career, with stops at places like Salomon and the North Face, he's seen all sorts of product efforts along with the way things change. And if anyone would be jaded at this point and ready to declare that innovation doesn't exist anymore, it would be Ben.
But it turns out he feels a little different.
Ben Ryan
00:26:41.990 - 00:27:09.540
You know, the interesting thing is innovators are always looking for ways to innovate and they get excited. They think, I can do something amazing with this for my brand. I want to work on this project.
And that makes them excited that they're able to deliver something for their brand that's cutting edge. And finding those people, you see the spark go off in their head and then they're off and they're like, can we do this?
Can we do it in a different way? How can I make this feel more like something my brand could do? Something that no one's ever seen before.
Colin True
00:27:09.540 - 00:27:10.020
Yeah.
Ben Ryan
00:27:10.100 - 00:27:19.780
And working with innovation teams in leading brands and some of them you've met this week, it's the most exciting part of my career, getting people excited, working with some of the smartest people in our industry.
Colin True
00:27:19.860 - 00:27:31.860
Yeah. What a success.
I mean, is it truly like, hey, man, we've penetrated every relevant outdoor line in the world, or is it like, you know, just getting it to work and having somebody find success with the technology is like, good enough start.
Ben Ryan
00:27:32.420 - 00:27:51.070
I think right now there's a lot going on in the industry. There's a lot of expectations, there's a lot of stress and pressure.
I think we have to be practical, that you need to stay within your means, be humble, grow slowly with brands that want to grow, don't over promise, make sure that you deliver great product, you make great products, you can make more in the future.
Colin True
00:27:51.310 - 00:29:51.880
So, with Ben's words in mind, let's actually wrap up this first edition of the Rock Fight Deep Dive.
Our emailer Emily asked at the beginning of the episode, do you believe that casualization of outdoor plays a part in diminishing the importance of performance textiles as a driver of innovation? My short answer is no. If anything, it makes it more important when it comes to the outdoor world that fabric innovations spawned from.
We've sort of done it all now. I'm not saying that more can't be done. I mean, look what our episode sponsor, Life Labs, is doing.
But Like I mentioned earlier, the demands of apparel and fabrics are simply growing in a evolving durability, sustainability and dare I say comfort are the priority now because performance is expected. Innovating for out to performance was really difficult. Continuing to innovate to serve those particular needs is equally difficult.
Ultimately, innovation is a pretty complicated topic. Something that says easy but does hard. But is innovation actually happening? Absolutely. There you have it.
Functional fabric, Fair innovation Outdoor apparel. We dove deep and we only scratch the surface of what actually happens at this event. And to our letter writer, our electronic letter writer, Emily.
I hope this helped a little bit. If you're still in the industry, I would encourage you to head to Portland next month and take in fff. Maybe say hi to Charles.
He's pretty easy to find.
If you're a brand or someone else out there listening who would like to partner with us and do your own Rock Fight Deep Dive, Drop us a line@myrockfightmail.com alright, that's the show for today. What did you what did you think of this special episode of the Rock Fight? What did you think of the Deep Dive? Would you like more episodes like this?
Send your feedback to myrockfightmail.com Today's episode was produced by me along with David Karstadt. Art direction provided by Sarah Genser. Big thanks to Life Labs for making this episode happen.
To learn more about what they do, head to lifelabs.design the rock flights of production of Rock Flight LLC. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening and here to take us out. Special episode, regular episode, whatever. He's always here.
It's Chris Demaics with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:30:00.360 - 00:30:53.010
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activity and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock Flight, Rock Flight, Rock Flight welcome to the Rock Flight. Rock Flight.
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