A Deeper Look At The "New" Media Scene

Click to listen on your favorite podcast app!

Today's show was recorded in Colin's Denver hotel room during this week's Outdoor Market Alliance Media Event (don't worry, it's not as sexy as it sounds).

Colin is joined by the Editor-In-Chief of Gearjunkie, Adam Ruggiero, to offer their initial thoughts on the OMA Media Event and use it as a springboard into a conversation about the "new" phase of outdoor media and how legacy media entities are responding to the rise of Substack, podcasts, and YouTube.

They wrap up their conversation with the favorite thing they each saw at this weeks event.

Click here to help those in need after the flooding of Texas' hill country.

Sign up for NEWS FROM THE FRONT, Rock Fight's semi-weekly newsletter by heading to www.rockfight.co and clicking Join The Mailing List.

Please follow and subscribe to The Rock Fight and give us a 5 star rating and a written review wherever you get your podcasts.

Want to pick a fight with The Rock Fight? Send your feedback, questions, and comments to myrockfight@gmail.com.

Click Here To Listen On Your Favorite Podcast App

Or Just Click The Player Below!

Episode Transcript:

Colin True

00:00:00.320 - 00:00:48.740

Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.

I'm Colin True and today I'm recording this in a hotel room in Denver where in just a few minutes I'll be joined by the editor in Chief of Gear junkie Adam Ruggiero. But before we get to that, come back to the Rock Fight on Monday where this week you'll get 2/3 of the Monday boys.

Producer Dave is sitting this one out. He's serving his one game suspension for violating the Podcasting Union's performance enhancing drug policy. And ah, producer Dave.

And hey Apple podcast listeners, we'd love if you'd leave us a review, rate the show and leave a written review and send us a screenshot of that review to myrockflightmail.com we'll send you a whole batch of Rockflight open container in the forthcoming Dear Abbey stickers. Stick around, we'll be right back.

Chris DeMakes

00:00:48.820 - 00:00:52.660

Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.

Colin True

00:00:54.900 - 00:03:49.030

Today's episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by Lem's Shoes. Are you looking for shoes that offer both long lasting durability and all comfort? Look no further than Lem's.

With a versatile lineup featuring over 30 thoughtfully designed styles, from minimalist sandals and rugged trail boots to vegan friendly sneakers and laid back slip ons, there's truly something for everyone.

Whether you're hitting the trail, traveling the globe or strolling through town, LEM's are built to move with you naturally and keep up every step of the way. Head to lemshoes.com to get your own pair today. Today's episode of the Rock Flight is presented by Oboz.

Who wants to share their love of hiking and we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including the following. Number one, because you know bear spray that's cheaper than a therapist. I don't really get that correlation, but I'm sure it's funny.

Number two, you get to pretend you're on a loan even though you packed six granola bars. And number three, it's the only time that dehydration is feels like an achievement. At number four, hiking means the Oboz Katabatic lt.

The Catabatic has quickly become an oboe's favorite and the LT takes the Catabatic collection to a whole other level with a lighter package additional environmentally friendly materials. From fast packing to day hiking, the Katabatic LT is your new shoe of choice.

And number five, this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana. Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboes love hiking. All right.

A couple of months ago, the host of Open Container, Doug Schnitzbahn, and I took a look at the state of outdoor media and how things looked a little grim.

While the print scene is showing exciting growth, the user experience at many of the websites outdoorsy folks have at their disposal sometimes isn't the best. And so you fast forward to this week and I'm at the Outdoor Market Alliance Media event in Denver.

I've talked about this event at length on the pod before, but to refresh your memory, the format is pretty simple.

PR agencies set up in 25 permanent showrooms that feature the vast major of relevant brands in the outdoor industry to meet with media and pitch products and stories.

A constant presence at many of these events that we attend, especially on the media side, is Adam Ruggiero, who is the editor in chief of Gear Junkie. If you've never met Adam, make sure you seek him out the next time you find yourself at a big industry gathering.

There aren't many more thoughtful and insightful people working in our space who can hang with the biggest gear nerds, but also really get at the heart of a topic or issue than Adam. So before we went to the showroom for the second day of Omar, Adam sat down with me in my hotel room.

Trust me, it's way less weird than it sounds to talk about what's happening with outdoor events, the state of outdoor media, and what we saw at the Outdoor Market alliance media event that got us both excited. So welcome back to the Rock Plate, where today we're talking outdoor media with Adam Ruggiero. All right, well, we are here in a hotel room.

Adam Ruggiero

00:03:49.910 - 00:03:50.710

Super normal.

Colin True

00:03:50.710 - 00:03:53.030

Colin, the editor in chief.

Adam Ruggiero

00:03:53.110 - 00:03:54.790

This really puts me at ease.

Colin True

00:03:55.700 - 00:04:01.060

This is the. This is what we do. We do all our podcasts, the Rock Fight. We're like, would you like to come to a hotel room with me?

Adam Ruggiero

00:04:01.140 - 00:04:04.180

This is how the sausage is made in Collins hotel room.

Colin True

00:04:04.340 - 00:04:11.220

We're here with the editor of Gear Junkie and elite podcaster in his own right, Mr. Adam Ruggero. Did I say that right? Is it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:04:11.220 - 00:04:11.779

Yes, sir.

Colin True

00:04:11.779 - 00:04:14.260

Okay. Is a Ruggero.

Adam Ruggiero

00:04:14.260 - 00:04:25.660

Yeah, it's. I have tried to spell it phonetically and I landed on zh, which I think intuitively people turn into a J. Yeah. But yes, you said it.

You said it beautifully.

Colin True

00:04:25.820 - 00:04:30.540

Has that been your life? Though. Ruggiero. Yes, Mr. Ruggiero.

Adam Ruggiero

00:04:30.540 - 00:05:00.790

We are old enough that we grew up sitting in phy Ed class in lines. We had our squads and we had to do roll call. Never had my name pronounced correctly. Had it riggy. Oh, everybody wants to move. Here's what I don't get.

Everybody wants to put the I before the O. So it's Ruggerio. And I think this is Cheerios Marketing. This Manchurian Candidate. And it's just you, General Mills. Exactly.

And we're all conditioned to do I before E. But everybody, everybody wants to put that I before the O.

Colin True

00:05:00.790 - 00:05:04.630

Last names are weird. I've said this, I think on the pod. People misspell my name all the time. And it's true.

Adam Ruggiero

00:05:04.630 - 00:05:04.950

How?

Colin True

00:05:05.830 - 00:05:12.750

T, R, E W. That's a cool name. But like I. It's to the point. My father did this and I adapted it. When I say, what's your name? Colin.

Adam Ruggiero

00:05:12.750 - 00:05:13.110

True.

Colin True

00:05:13.110 - 00:05:22.020

T, R, U, E. I just spell it automatically now because people constantly want to make it something different, like true A Trew maybe. I don't know.

Adam Ruggiero

00:05:22.020 - 00:05:24.140

Oh, the spelling. Everybody's pronouncing it.

Colin True

00:05:24.220 - 00:05:27.100

They say it correctly. Yeah, yeah. But if I'm saying it to someone.

Adam Ruggiero

00:05:27.100 - 00:05:31.060

They don't have a little harder than you here. I think you're trying to identify. No, no.

Colin True

00:05:31.060 - 00:05:37.780

You had a way harder than me. I'm. I'm not complaining. I just think it's funny that the simplest names, people still kind of mess up. Right?

Adam Ruggiero

00:05:37.780 - 00:05:38.060

Yeah.

Colin True

00:05:38.060 - 00:06:13.940

Yeah. So, all right, so we're at the OMA event while we're at the hotel at the event. And outdoor trade events. Kind of a much discussed, much scrutinized.

I mean, pretty much since before COVID Right. It felt like it's been. It's been a thing. I tell everyone where we are right now. The Outdoor Market Alliance Media event.

It's maybe my favorite event to attend right now. Just selfishly, I. That's just. I just really like this event. But my POV on these things is different than yours given what you guys do at Gear Junkie.

So what's your 10,000 foot view on the current event landscape? I mean, do you and your team have everything you need and want to do from. From Gear Junkie's point of view?

Adam Ruggiero

00:06:14.020 - 00:06:31.940

Yeah. Well, first of all, let me thank you for being on the podcast.

As somebody who has podcasted, I love it when the guest is like, hey, by the way, this is an invite. I was. You were gracious enough to extend it. I have my poster syndrome. I don't think I Belong on the mic. I certainly don't belong in your hotel room.

Colin True

00:06:32.340 - 00:06:34.020

This is exactly where you belong.

Adam Ruggiero

00:06:35.700 - 00:06:39.100

So, yeah, no, thank you. You're crushing. And I really enjoy doing the pod.

Colin True

00:06:39.100 - 00:06:39.860

Love having you.

Adam Ruggiero

00:06:41.220 - 00:06:45.900

The question, if I recall correctly, is what do we think of the trade.

Colin True

00:06:45.900 - 00:06:48.980

Show or overall, just current event landscape. You go on a lot of these things.

Adam Ruggiero

00:06:50.180 - 00:07:07.940

I feel like it is lighter, it's less dense than it used to be. That's how it feels.

And I started 10, 11 years ago, 2015, 2016, in the outdoor, quote unquote, outdoor industry, which we've also talked about, like this quote, unquote, small community.

Colin True

00:07:09.230 - 00:07:10.670

This small billion dollar community.

Adam Ruggiero

00:07:10.990 - 00:08:10.820

I agree. I. You know, at the risk of somebody who runs a different.

Anybody who runs a different event being like, hey, wait a minute, this one has a special place in my heart because it has. There's something organic. It feels like PR kind of spurred it. And PR is. They're a unique component of the media mechanism.

They kind of know everybody, but also don't necessarily always know each other. They know what other everybody needs. Right. They're facilitators.

And this event is it like, it starts from a place of positivity and community, and then the business motives sort of overlay on top of that instead of the other way around. Like, we have business to do and we can make friendship happen after that. This is the inverse of that. This is very sort of organic.

Colin True

00:08:10.980 - 00:08:36.940

I like that description of it because I've had a hard time sort of quantifying why I like this event so much or why I think it's important. Like, Owen Comerford's here. And I said, hey, you should come to this. And he's like, why?

And I'm like, I couldn't just give him, like, an answer like, well, because this is going to happen and it will be good. You know, it was. Well, I don't know. Every time I've gone to this thing, I've had these interesting conversations and good things have come out of it.

And it's like the best way I can describe it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:08:36.940 - 00:08:41.679

Yeah. I wonder to what extent so just the actual physical venue plays into that.

Colin True

00:08:41.999 - 00:08:43.199

I think that's where it starts.

Adam Ruggiero

00:08:43.519 - 00:09:21.600

Yeah. I didn't consider it until yesterday.

Somebody, a friend of mine, Nate Mitka, who used to work at Gear Junkie, he's with Excel Outdoors and overseeing marketing with Kelty, et cetera. It's his first oma, and somebody had asked him what he thought of it, and he's like, I really like it.

What he identified was that unlike all these other trade shows, you walk in and it's you and the person you're supposed to meet. There aren't other people milling around walking through, you know, oh, excuse me, I gotta reach this shoe over here and walk back. Like it. There's.

It is. It's intimate. It's natural.

Colin True

00:09:21.600 - 00:09:24.520

That's the right word. And you can actually have real conversations.

Adam Ruggiero

00:09:24.680 - 00:09:25.120

Yes.

Colin True

00:09:25.120 - 00:10:10.980

I had several yesterday where it was like, it was only 20 minute meetings, but, like, to your point, we were alone in the room kind of thing, and it was just like it kind of got at the heart of it. We were able to ask questions and get real answers versus a, you know, the big trade shows, which they're effective for their own reasons.

And I want to ask about switchback in a second, but usually my experience is, oh, hey, Adam's here, man. Oh, hey, let me show you this thing. Great. What do you think? Cool. What do you have coming up? Are you working on that? Awesome.

Let's connect after the show. Yeah, right. And then you run off to your thing and I go to the next person coming into my booth. Right. We did mention switchback, though.

You know, the funny thing I think about switchback at this event, even I mentioned it when my conversation with Christina Henderson the other day. I don't know how many hours of podcasts I put out about switchback. People still come up to me and say, hey, what'd you think?

So there's definitely a curiosity. You were there. What did you think of switchback?

Adam Ruggiero

00:10:13.780 - 00:11:14.100

I'm inclined to, like, all events. It's just in your DNA. I'm wired that way. That's what I want. I'm assuming we both knew about switchback for a while before it came to fruition.

And I. I learned about it when I attended my first running event last year. And the running event is what had the buzz that I was hearing. I had never been there.

We were in this post or reality where or was happening, but it was definitely shifting purpose, market, all of that. And there was just this energy and buzz around the running event. And I. I mean, we all run, you know, I'm not like, I wouldn't.

I wouldn't say I'm the core trail running reviewer, but I didn't think, like, it was a dance I was invited to. Like, there are real runners out there, and I'm not what I would consider a real runner.

Colin True

00:11:14.100 - 00:11:15.860

The Keystone booth is Brooks, right?

Adam Ruggiero

00:11:15.860 - 00:11:16.340

Yeah, exactly.

Colin True

00:11:16.340 - 00:11:19.380

It's like, you know, it's not quite the old or world that we were used to.

Adam Ruggiero

00:11:19.540 - 00:11:30.870

So I Had interviewed Christina Henderson once on the podcast, and she was very. She's like, well, you gotta come check it out. You just. You gotta come check it out. And you don't say no to invites. You just.

You don't say no to invites.

Colin True

00:11:30.870 - 00:11:32.190

That's why you're in my hotel room right now.

Adam Ruggiero

00:11:32.190 - 00:11:42.510

Dude, let me tell you, dude, you're leaning into it too hard. Completely derailed.

Colin True

00:11:42.510 - 00:11:48.830

Adam looks so good in my bed right now. Guys, let me. We're in a suite. We're in chairs. Everybody settle down.

Adam Ruggiero

00:11:48.990 - 00:13:02.890

So this is what it's like to be a guest on a podcast. A quick aside. Still about switchback, though.

I. I had a. I did something I had never done before because I'd never seen it when signing up to attend a trade show event was when I signed up to come to the running event last November, December, there was a checkbox that said, would you like to make your contact information available for people to get a hold of you? And I was like, I've always been available ahead of time. And then everybody wants to book. It's not me. It's gear junkie, right?

Like, they all want gear junkie's time. And I usually say yes to everybody. It's a madcap. And I was like. I had a freelancer, Craig Randall, way smarter than me. He was attending.

He was going to do the boots on the ground work. I had been invited by Christina just to kind of get a feel for the event and talk.

She had hinted about this switchback thing that I needed to learn about. I didn't actually have to take appointments, so I decided, no, don't. I don't need to be running booth to booth to booth.

I just want to holistically go get a vibe for the event. If you've never had the pleasure of showing up at a trade show with nothing to do, it is a liberty.

Colin True

00:13:02.890 - 00:13:03.530

It's great.

Adam Ruggiero

00:13:04.090 - 00:13:42.480

You don't realize how. How conditioned your mindset is when you go and your whole thing is like, I mean, got to start running. I got to run here. And you look forward to it.

There's a high to running booth to booth, but it's fire hose.

But when you just go as, like, a person and watch people run about and decide where you walk in and people do a double take because they had no idea you're going to show up, and then you can just talk to people. I cannot recommend that enough. Do not tell people you're going to show up. Listen, I'm so privileged. I got an invite to go. It's not.

You can just roll into this frigging thing uninv. But I had this unique opportunity to do that. So I.

Colin True

00:13:42.480 - 00:13:56.840

But you got to see the show. I mean, that's the thing, right? Because usually there's two.

There's two key roles to these events is like what you described where you have to run from booth to booth and your time is managed that way. And half the time is spent dodging people in the halls that maybe you want to talk to, but you're trying to get to your next appointment.

Adam Ruggiero

00:13:56.840 - 00:14:00.600

You do that. You do like the look over your shoulder halfway, say hi, and then immediately turn back.

Colin True

00:14:00.920 - 00:14:09.280

I'll see you at the bar later maybe, but I'm not asleep. And then.

Or you're the person in the booth and I've been that role too, where you're like, well, this is where I'm going to be for the next eight hours, dude.

Adam Ruggiero

00:14:09.280 - 00:14:10.240

I've never done here.

Colin True

00:14:10.240 - 00:14:13.920

And whoever comes in, I have to talk to them all of that stuff, man.

Adam Ruggiero

00:14:13.920 - 00:14:14.760

And it's rough.

Colin True

00:14:14.760 - 00:14:33.760

Either. Either one is rough in its own way.

So when you do get the chance and I've had this now, I've been fortunate, same thing to kind of just roll in and have no obligations and just walk by. And you. I'm going to judge of this booth for a minute. You guys did a crappy job on that creative. You know, I'm going to go over. Oh wow.

These guys kill it. Killed it over here. Why is that sales rep just sitting on his laptop not doing anything? You know, like that's. It's really fun.

Adam Ruggiero

00:14:33.870 - 00:15:14.740

And so what's funny is that because I had that. That was how I approached this. I had a really holistic view of the running event. And I was, damn. The running event is. This is shit, dude.

I like this a lot. Switchback. I was like, okay. I couldn't see how switch.

I couldn't quite delineate what switchback was with the running event there because there was kind of some, you know, signage, semi boundaries that were like, this is this, this is this. So it was really difficult for me to get my head around what is this switchback thing exactly gonna be.

And I think Christina did an interview afterward and super gracious, but I feel like I kept asking the same question like what, what, what, what, what and who and why?

Colin True

00:15:14.740 - 00:15:15.340

What is it?

Adam Ruggiero

00:15:15.340 - 00:15:15.580

Right?

Colin True

00:15:15.580 - 00:15:16.060

Exactly.

Adam Ruggiero

00:15:16.060 - 00:15:28.100

Just because otherwise I. I hate being sold things. Like I'm. I assume things are multi level marketing when somebody can't explain to me what it is they're trying to tell Me in plain speaks.

Colin True

00:15:28.250 - 00:15:28.370

Right?

Adam Ruggiero

00:15:28.370 - 00:16:03.670

And the more words it takes to explain a thing or the more you talk around it, the less interested I am in whatever it is you're trying to get me to do. But the energy at the running event was so good. I was like, all right, cool. This. I was starving for this because there was no more outdoor retailer.

Because what I think I bring to the table is more the people aspect of this media industry. So I need that. I need that FaceTime. I need that connection with people. So I was like, sure, let's see what this switchback thing is about.

I don't really know what to expect, but let's do it. Nashville. Weird choice, but flying east instead of flying west. How novel.

Colin True

00:16:03.670 - 00:16:04.470

Let's do it. Right.

Adam Ruggiero

00:16:07.990 - 00:16:27.410

I was listening to your podcast with Christina Anderson, the follow up episode. I don't have anything positive or negative to say about the Gaylord Opuland. Yes, you do. No, no, no, dude, I. The best I can describe it is like, you.

You're now inside the Martian habitat.

Colin True

00:16:27.810 - 00:16:29.090

It's like you walk through a time.

Adam Ruggiero

00:16:29.090 - 00:16:37.810

I have not been at a place like that. And I. It is. It's an adjustment. It's a mental and emotional adjustment.

Colin True

00:16:38.850 - 00:16:39.570

You. It.

Adam Ruggiero

00:16:40.610 - 00:16:44.130

Anybody who didn't go. You're just. You do. You never need to leave?

Colin True

00:16:44.130 - 00:16:44.770

I didn't.

Adam Ruggiero

00:16:44.770 - 00:17:18.130

Whatever you need. It's like to add to the uber mall convention center. It's part adventure park. And it's the thing that.

The thing that really got me was the ceilings were so frigging small. I'm six three. It was like. It was like walking into one of those optical illusions where as you walk forward, the whole ceiling comes down.

You're walking toward a tiny door. It was like, what the event. Okay. So outside of, you know, being in this very strange, opulent place, this palatial.

Colin True

00:17:18.130 - 00:17:24.450

I like that. Christina did defend it to the death, though. She's like, I'm gonna defend the Gaylord. I'm like, hey, good for you. But man, it was weird.

Adam Ruggiero

00:17:24.770 - 00:17:29.210

It was. It wasn't. Not a good choice, right? It's just.

Colin True

00:17:29.210 - 00:17:30.250

That's a great way to describe it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:17:30.250 - 00:17:31.010

No, so different.

Colin True

00:17:31.010 - 00:17:37.130

And like I said to her, I get it, it had everything there that you needed, but it was just. It's just. And to your point, just a bizarre place.

Adam Ruggiero

00:17:37.130 - 00:17:40.690

To your point, it's forever memorable. Like, it is going to be a thing.

Colin True

00:17:40.690 - 00:17:45.330

You and I are gonna be in the old folks home reminiscing on our train. Absolutely. Like, dude, remember the Gaylord?

Adam Ruggiero

00:17:45.410 - 00:17:57.990

You have no idea. And it Is that's a beautiful thing. And for the 25th anniversary, maybe we go back, right? Like, just, let's get weird.

There's 19 wings, each with a different colored carpet. It'll be awesome.

Colin True

00:17:57.990 - 00:18:17.440

Going to lean into it, go full shining. Got to get into the meat of it, though, right?

So a couple of months ago, and you and I talked about this a little bit, schnitzbahn came on, and we were talking about, you know, how, you know, the outdoor media scene is in a bit of a lull. You know, I think we even called you guys out a little bit on that episode, I guess.

Sorry, now that you're sitting in my hotel room, but you were leaving the.

Adam Ruggiero

00:18:17.440 - 00:18:18.920

Point for me to respond here. Great.

Colin True

00:18:19.720 - 00:18:34.520

But part of that came from a column written by outdoor journalist Maggie Slepien for her own substack, reflecting on the challenges of a writer in the outdoor space right now. So I was excited you were willing to come on the pod.

I wanted to ask you, how are you feeling as editor in chief of one of these sites about the state of outdoor media?

Adam Ruggiero

00:18:35.320 - 00:18:43.090

I've talked about this, as you well know. Everybody. Everybody.

Colin True

00:18:43.250 - 00:18:45.290

I'm not the only one asking this question right now. No, no.

Adam Ruggiero

00:18:45.290 - 00:18:54.930

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And it's usually phrased differently, but I think implicitly what people are asking. Like, they ask me, hey, hey, how are you?

Colin True

00:18:54.930 - 00:18:55.530

You okay?

Adam Ruggiero

00:18:55.530 - 00:19:01.890

And there's. There's an inflection. It's not like, hey, how are ya? It's like, hey, there's a head tilt. It's like, hey, how are you?

Colin True

00:19:01.890 - 00:19:05.090

How are you? And I think it's like, your dog just died. Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:19:05.090 - 00:19:52.000

And it. It's sort of vindicating in a way. It feels like, okay, it's not just me getting older. Things feel different. And it's almost.

It's difficult to put your finger on. What do I think of the outdoor media landscape?

I have talked about this with so many people in the last day, and I think my answer evolves a little bit each time. I only compare it to what it was when I was starting and then coming up and gaining a reputation.

So I'm inclined to say I don't like the overall change in the industry, the media industry, but also kind of the industry as a whole.

Colin True

00:19:52.160 - 00:19:56.720

It's media in general more that. This is broader than the outdoors. Right. I mean, this is kind of.

Adam Ruggiero

00:19:56.800 - 00:20:03.950

Yeah. Because we can't decouple. No creator can decouple themselves from also being a consumer and a reader of something.

Colin True

00:20:04.750 - 00:20:06.470

Right. Especially in this regard.

Adam Ruggiero

00:20:06.470 - 00:20:41.700

Dude. And gaining information or entertainment. It's just, it feels like it's nutritionally lacking on the whole. Right. You get your macros. Okay.

But we're iron deficient for some reason. We're just all information iron deficient.

And I love that I don't have a good answer as to why I can point to things in a really good conversation with Erica, I believe her last name is Zazo. And she, you know, it was the same question, how are you doing? Right. And I even asked, I did the same thing to her. I was like.

Colin True

00:20:41.780 - 00:20:43.980

Because she's a freelancer and just had a baby.

Adam Ruggiero

00:20:43.980 - 00:21:16.430

How are you doing? Yeah. And at one point she expressed, I, you know, I would really like to, I would really like to do more long form, more narrative, more in depth.

And I hear that a lot. In fact, I get those drafts a lot. And I have to edit or go back to the author and be like, da, da, da.

And part of that is because, you know, I'm looking for my phone. Like reading, reading on a phone. Reading digitally sucks.

Colin True

00:21:16.590 - 00:21:17.950

Yeah. Generally speaking, yeah, totally.

Adam Ruggiero

00:21:18.500 - 00:21:51.520

And part of it is because magazines, looking at the advertising in magazines is beautiful. It's a moment to pause. It's a bit of a visual delight. It's interesting. And then you can go on to the story.

The advertising seamlessly integrates with the experience of reading the thing you want to read. And advertising on the Internet, on sites like Gear Junkie, outside any of them is obnoxious. It's inherently obnoxious.

It's like if you're reading the newspaper, somebody puts their hand in the newspaper and starts barking at you about buying a vehicle, a make of automobile.

Colin True

00:21:51.520 - 00:21:52.200

Right, Right.

Adam Ruggiero

00:21:53.880 - 00:22:04.600

So it's really difficult. Like as a reader, I don't want to spend nothing about reading on my phone. Makes me want to stay or linger or ponder.

It is, it's like, I got to get in, get what I need and get the hell out.

Colin True

00:22:04.600 - 00:22:04.919

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:22:04.919 - 00:22:26.520

And for a long time, Stephen, Reginald and Sean McCoy kind of quartered the market because they were, they were brief, they were, they were honest. It was tangible. It was like very first person.

It was all digital and it was in an Internet and a medium that had not matured into the advertising underwritten monster that it is now.

Colin True

00:22:26.520 - 00:22:26.920

Right.

Adam Ruggiero

00:22:26.920 - 00:23:00.500

It's not pleasant to be in the media landscape as a consumer. Right. It's just kind of hostile.

Unless, and we talked about this, unless you break that paradigm and you decide, you know, fuck it, I'm going to cough up my hard earned dollars because I like this publication, I like this author I'm going to pay to read it and free them and me from the arm of advertising. I'm paying. Like with anything else. You go to a store, you give them the money, they give you the thing, no questions asked, Boom, done.

It's wonderful.

Colin True

00:23:01.380 - 00:23:41.610

The consumer is definitely the problem. The money is a piece that probably we should have touched on.

It didn't in that conversation with Doug because to your point, it's like, well, do you want it to be free? Well, then here's the hand in the middle of the article, like you just said, and now it's free. I don't want that. Okay, well then it's 9.99amonth.

Well, fuck that. I don't want to pay for this. So, like, what do you do?

And people don't recognize that on the other side of that screen is somebody who spent time and energy. Even if it is something as silly as like a listicle or something like that, someone still did it. Right.

And unless, and if you, unless you want to just go full on, hey, let's have ChatGPT write all our articles for us right now. There's money that needs to be exchanged in order for that to happen.

Adam Ruggiero

00:23:41.850 - 00:23:49.430

Yeah. And it can't. It cannot. I don't think it can go back to the way it was. When we all think of Halcyon days of man, it was fun.

Colin True

00:23:49.430 - 00:24:40.130

And I think this is an old guy too, right? It's probably the whole like new outdoor media or new media, right.

Which is, you know, I guess I don't, I wouldn't say it's all user generated content, but it definitely crosses over to that. I mean, this is like, I think Mike, Maggie's substack was kind of was pressured because like, she's like, I just want to write stuff. Right.

And it's way harder for me to make money just writing stuff now if you're willing to monetize your subsecond, but which requires you to build the audience to do that.

If you want to have a podcast, if you want to have a YouTube channel, and by the way, for the consumer, all those things might be better because I don't know what you do now. Like when I'm looking for something of like, oh, I'm curious about a piece of gear or a trail to go on or whatever.

I'm going usually to YouTube first now, right. I go to these are these other mediums first.

And I don't think till later maybe to go to some of the, you know, more, for lack of a better term, like, kind of legacy kind of outlets. You know what I mean?

Adam Ruggiero

00:24:40.130 - 00:25:04.040

Yeah, yeah. We. There was a time when Gear Junkie could post a video of a drone flying through fireworks. And the entire. It seemed like the whole Internet.

It was unbelievable. And now I'll see an. I'll see an elephant run through a taco shop right before bedtime and then just be like, oh, that's cool.

And then go to the next thing. Colin, I've seen everything.

Colin True

00:25:04.360 - 00:25:04.920

We have.

Adam Ruggiero

00:25:04.920 - 00:26:42.470

Nothing is impressive. Nothing. Nothing like it. What we compete with now and again. I got a pa. I can't.

I can't say it was better when that's what every old person does, is they shake their fist and it's like, it's better this way. It's different. It's totally normal for. For younger people. Like, this is just. And their information comes from. When we talk about events, press trips.

Half. Half of them are influencers or ambassadors or they are independent content creators. And they are.

They're the ones that are also creating the information stream that the readers we're after are getting their information right.

And old farts like us understand or perceive the benefit of some sort of arbiter, some sort of media entity that is filtering, that is thoughtful, that is consolidating the wealth of stuff to be like, actually, this is the wheat from the chaff. Right? And they hire good authors. They pay good freelancers good money, ideally. And they're curating the voices.

Like, this is a voice you need to hear. This is a voice you need to hear. We study this. We hear this a lot. This is a good voice. Whereas now it's largely outsourced to an algorithm. Right?

And it's. It's something that will. That will. It will delight. It'll keep your attention. Instead of like, we're talking about reading a whole story.

Like, time on page. For the longest time, Gear Junkie wanted to break two minutes. It was like this impossible thing.

We could never get somebody to stay on the page for more than two minutes. It's like, on the average, like. Like 158 or whatever. Now it's 20 seconds to linger on something for 20 seconds.

Colin True

00:26:42.470 - 00:26:43.950

I got the gist of that. I'm good, dude.

Adam Ruggiero

00:26:45.390 - 00:27:17.680

So overall, I am not stoked. I have not adapted. The media landscape has consolidated, obviously. We talked about Mike Roge earlier in the Mountain Gazette.

I am encouraged that there are still some people doing independent journalism, because I believe it is important. And I've referenced this to everybody in the how you doing? Response. I'm getting his Name wrong. I know him. Kaylee Fritz.

Colin True

00:27:17.680 - 00:27:20.840

Kaylee Fretz. Yeah. Escape collecting. Escape collecting. He's been on the show too.

Adam Ruggiero

00:27:21.160 - 00:27:43.770

And the story that he wrote in the wake of all the outside editors asking for names to be removed, it was a brilliant. There's a wildfire sweeping through outside or something like that. It was to that effect.

I cannot recommend that enough people read that because it pulls. It pulls the veneer back and shows people this is really what's going on from. From the content creators perspective.

Colin True

00:27:43.770 - 00:27:44.330

Right, right.

Adam Ruggiero

00:27:44.330 - 00:28:46.490

I mean Robin has a motive and a rationale for his decisions and all sorts of, you know, stressors and obligations. None of us know about that, you know, justify his job and decisions and whatever.

But from as somebody who came up in journalism and was a freelancer for a short time and then got lucky and has been an editor and learned blah blah, blah, blah, blah.

The way Kaylee used the metaphor of a wildfire sweeping through, devouring old growth, devastating, seemingly devastating entire ecosystem, but also in its wake leaving little opportunities for little upstart shoots to come through.

It was so beautiful and apartment and the reason I recommend it to people is because it's like you don't necessarily know a pain you've been having or living with until somebody applies pressure to it and be like this is where your pain starts 100%. And he just nailed it.

Colin True

00:28:46.970 - 00:29:55.900

And I think it was one thing he. Because we spoke. He was on the show and we spoke. I think it was off mic.

But he was mentioning like he doesn't want to weigh in on what's happening at Outside. And so I know that him to then I don't think he'll mind me saying this. I know that then him to write that was like, okay, I have to say something.

He really felt the need to do it and.

And this conversation and kind of me coming to these conclusions and asking these questions and Kelly's piece I think plays a role in this is if I've been unfair and maybe some of my criticisms about outside and even Gear Junkie too is more like I'm just confused. Right. Because it's something these things just don't line up with how like like the content sometimes and everything I'm like, I just like, why.

Why are you doing this? When it feels like this is what should be done. But that also recognizing to your point, this is the. This is this. This is the.

You're not seeing the wildfire, but it's the wildfire blowing through.

And look, we now would live in a media landscape and we Learned this after our last presidential election where the most powerful media outlet is a guy named Joe Rogan who has a podcast. And it's not. He doesn't have a media company. He isn't paying journalists to go out there. He is a guy with a podcast.

And it's the most influential thing going in media right now. And that's indicative of all of this. Right? I mean, that's where the change is.

Adam Ruggiero

00:29:55.900 - 00:30:01.340

I have to recognize that at the editor in chief level.

Colin True

00:30:01.740 - 00:30:02.060

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:30:02.300 - 00:30:06.740

Again, imposter syndrome. That is so weird to say and refer to itself.

Colin True

00:30:06.740 - 00:30:08.100

You're like Perry White and Superman.

Adam Ruggiero

00:30:08.100 - 00:31:12.350

Unreal. I. It is not the same. What editor in chief for me means now is not what it meant for Stephen. Reginald. When I was starting, we had the blessing.

And I think this applies to the larger industry. We talk about, you know, old or days and. God, we sound old. We talk about old or days and the way things used to be. Like, things are.

Things are different. Right? I mean, you got to adapt and I don't. Yeah, whatever. Whatever.

How I would like Gear Junkie to be different or more like the way we used to do things. What I fail to recognize when I, When I say those things or I lament the way things are, the landscape, it. It. We're going to sink. We can't.

Like, if we don't adapt, if we don't do things different, if we don't try and find more money, if we don't. If we don't. If we don't throw shit at the wall and. And sell campaigns to Nissan and shoot sponsored videos that are actually really quite.

Colin True

00:31:12.350 - 00:31:12.590

Good.

Adam Ruggiero

00:31:14.750 - 00:32:03.800

We'Re not going to survive. Like, we have to keep our readers. We cannot. It's. It's a dude, it is a. It is a tightrope act. You cannot violate. That's my job.

You cannot violate the trust of the readers. That is they. All this money, any advertising only exists. They don't love Gear Junkie. They love the eyeballs that are on Gear Junkie.

Our commitment has got to be to them 100% always, and you cannot violate that. Also, those readers have never had to pay for Gear Junkie. There's a case to be made.

It should remain that way because we do cool shit and it should be accessible to all. Totally get it. There's also a case to be made.

Dude, the amount of work Rochelle or Brian or Will or Mac put into creating and reporting a story, that shit is far from free. It is hard work. The relationships and they're getting the same.

Colin True

00:32:03.800 - 00:32:15.480

20 second glance that like. Yes, a gear review about a knife is, you know, I mean like the same thing. Right. And that's. That doesn't. The knife view doesn't deserve it.

I'm not saying that, but you know what I mean, like the amount of work that went into the best.

Adam Ruggiero

00:32:15.480 - 00:32:19.120

It takes two and a half hours. Often it takes two and a half days, if not two and a half weeks or more.

Colin True

00:32:19.120 - 00:32:19.480

Exactly.

Adam Ruggiero

00:32:19.790 - 00:32:56.330

To report those things. So I think it should be free.

I also, if people paid for it, we could decouple from the advertising because again, to bring this full circle, we need the advertising because we need to stay afloat because we are competing with so many other diverse perspectives and so many other channels than we ever have before. We need to do these things. But advertising on the Internet is objectively bad and we've settled for the lowest common denominator.

It's like a fucking banner ad. A banner ad literally popping up as you're trying. Trying to look at something. Why would. Who invented. You know, people talk about.

Colin True

00:32:56.330 - 00:32:57.130

You talk about that.

Adam Ruggiero

00:32:57.370 - 00:33:01.690

If you go back in time and just slap the out of somebody. I would slap the out of banner ad.

Colin True

00:33:01.770 - 00:33:04.610

Some guy in like Silicon valley in like 2006.

Adam Ruggiero

00:33:04.610 - 00:33:10.330

You need to be removed from the timeline because the future you create, it's just like the Terminator, man. You have got to be stopped.

Colin True

00:33:10.330 - 00:33:14.210

You know what we could do, guys? We could just put this thing right here and people click on it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:33:14.210 - 00:33:17.490

What is the one thing people are trying to do? Let's stop them from doing it.

Colin True

00:33:17.490 - 00:33:22.010

It probably was like a little square, you know, like we'll put it off to the side. No one will even notice.

Adam Ruggiero

00:33:22.010 - 00:33:28.550

It's just like walking a store with a megaphone and just shouting at people what your brand is. It's like, why? What are you doing?

Colin True

00:33:32.310 - 00:36:05.700

Don't let our big time production value and celebrity names fool you. Looking at you. Producer Dave But Rockvite LLC is a small business and growing brand.

And even though we have our own consigliere, he advises on other matters. We've got to consult a lawyer every now and then on the legal structures that every business needs.

But for a small business like ours, the cost to hire general counsel or pay a retainer is a non starter. So what's an outdoorsy founder to do? I mean, come on, we're not flashing that outside money. Enter Conatus Council.

They can help your business with fractional general counsel and legal services from strategy consulting to advocacy and government affairs to real world implementation for outdoor recreation industry businesses. Forest over Kanada's council has helped Rock Fight Natural navigate some of these areas.

And let me tell you, knowing someone has your back means you can focus on running your business. I mean, he had at least three edits to this read to quote unquote protect us from ourselves. I mean, that's what I'm talking about.

Forest cares just as much about the outdoors and the outdoor industry as our listeners. So, got questions? Conatuscouncil.com to get in touch with Forest. The first six hours are free. Wait, what? What? I can't say that.

Oh, initial consultations are free. Okay, fine. In the store aisles, a quiet revolution is happening with Endeavor. Frontline staff aren't just selling products.

They're building trust, making connections, and turning browsers into loyal customers. Let's see how he didn't know which brand he wanted, just that the trail ahead was rocky.

But she knew because she'd trained for this moment right on her phone. A quick conversation, a confident recommendation, and a perfect fit hiking boot later, he's ready for his trip.

That's right, she's a It may be lunchtime, but between sandwich bites, he learned about fog fighting tech in snow goggles. An hour later, that knowledge helped a customer pick the perfect pair and add a helmet too. Learning on the go, selling with certainty, adding value.

Yup, he's a shout floor hero. Endeavor is a mobile first platform that equips retail staff with training, incentives and tools to boost sales and brand engagement.

Brands gain insights, sell through improves, while retail associates stay motivated. Ready to get started? Just head to Endeavor IO, update your brand profile and upload your dealer list to access the free features.

And when you're ready, launch your first pay as you go campaign. With flexible scaling options, Endeavor turns everyday interactions into strategic wins. The results.

Adam Ruggiero

00:36:19.220 - 00:36:19.980

Anyway. Anyway.

Colin True

00:36:19.980 - 00:36:20.540

So what do you think?

Adam Ruggiero

00:36:20.540 - 00:36:21.220

Did I make a point?

Colin True

00:36:21.220 - 00:36:22.140

You made a great point.

Adam Ruggiero

00:36:22.140 - 00:36:22.540

At length.

Colin True

00:36:22.540 - 00:36:46.430

I just don't know that's why the beauty of the podcast. But I mean I guess do you. What are the opportunities for Gear Junkie? Are there any like just obvious things in this kind of new landscape?

You're like hey, if we could not to like let you like reveal like secret plans for Gear Junkie. But like what do you think the for.

For a, I guess again, lack of a better term legacy media company doing what you do in this sort of landscape where these sort of individual voices and mediums are popping up, what are the opportunities?

Adam Ruggiero

00:36:46.430 - 00:36:58.610

Yep, I have, I have, I have two and a half answers. Okay, one and a half of them are. One of them is mine. One. All right. One of them comes.

Colin True

00:36:58.610 - 00:36:59.930

How many of these are half baked?

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:00.250 - 00:37:02.650

I think these are all. These are all. No, these are all good ideas.

Colin True

00:37:02.650 - 00:37:03.130

Okay, good.

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:03.130 - 00:37:07.850

These are all good ideas. Yeah. We would need. We would need.

Colin True

00:37:07.850 - 00:37:09.170

And then we go to a part two. Have you back.

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:09.170 - 00:37:31.450

We need to partake of some sweet Denver bud for me to give you my actual half baked ideas because I got some weird ideas. But as far as a solid business case, I think people should start subscribing to newsletters. The Gear Junkie has crafted a stellar.

And it's not perfect yet, but we are actively adapting it.

Colin True

00:37:31.450 - 00:37:32.290

And it's getting better too.

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:32.290 - 00:37:33.650

It's getting better and better and better and better.

Colin True

00:37:33.970 - 00:37:34.650

It's getting better.

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:34.650 - 00:37:49.890

And here's the beauty of a newsletter is you sign into it. The advertising is less intrusive. You get it on a timeline. It's curated for you. It gives us. It helps us. Because this is not.

It's way less volatile than throwing something into the Internet and hope it floats.

Colin True

00:37:49.970 - 00:37:50.690

I agree with.

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:51.180 - 00:37:59.540

So you get to sign on for the content you already like. Get it into your inbox. It has far more passive advertising and often more interesting advertising. Like with podcasting.

Colin True

00:37:59.540 - 00:37:59.740

Right.

Adam Ruggiero

00:37:59.740 - 00:38:09.100

Like you can make advertising compelling again. Shout out to Dave. And the Fit Socks advertisement was the most entertaining advertisement I have heard in years. I know he's going to hear this.

Colin True

00:38:09.100 - 00:38:11.820

And now he's going to more so. It's so good.

Adam Ruggiero

00:38:13.180 - 00:38:32.600

So E Newsletters. It has inspired me. I think the Hustle was sort of changed the game where newsletters were really an afterthought.

Like, hey, here's this hodgepodge of stuff we published previously. Go. Go for it. Whatever. We now put attention into it. We think about it. Andrew McLean and the user experience.

Colin True

00:38:33.080 - 00:38:45.000

So that. Right. Because if, like, if I'm traveling this week and even if it's in like this, if.

I just don't want to be bothered with your newsletter today because I've got 800 emails just deleted. I know another one's going to be coming in three or four days.

Adam Ruggiero

00:38:45.000 - 00:39:09.090

You don't have to worry about going to a homepage and scrolling to see if there is a story. Here's the stories. Check it out. Click it if you want to click it. It honestly.

So I would say E News is a great opportunity that we're actively pursuing and we're doing it well and it's getting better. Selfishly. Fucking podcast, dude. I think it is a format that is visceral.

Colin True

00:39:09.170 - 00:39:09.610

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:39:09.610 - 00:39:35.540

It's just. It can be. You can actively listen to it or passively listen to it. You can take it with you on your day. It is cool. Like, everybody's.

Rochelle's words and Brian Doerr's words and my words all look the same on a page, but our voices sound different, our diction is different, our inflections are different. The way we actually physically tell a story is different. Podcasts unlock that. And we're just hardwired. We're compelled to like.

Colin True

00:39:35.540 - 00:39:37.900

And it's your voice in there. In there. You're usually wearing headphones.

Adam Ruggiero

00:39:37.900 - 00:39:38.380

It's awesome.

Colin True

00:39:38.380 - 00:39:46.470

By the way. You and Richelle on at the same time. We may have to set that up. We gotta get Richelle and same time. This could be fantastic.

She's been one of my favorite guests to come on the rock fight, and.

Adam Ruggiero

00:39:46.470 - 00:39:49.430

She was on Open Container, one of the most naturally. No bullshit people.

Colin True

00:39:49.430 - 00:39:50.390

Rochelle's the best.

Adam Ruggiero

00:39:51.190 - 00:40:03.590

Okay, so I actually remember where I'm going. So we talked about podcasts. That's two. The half is YouTube. Because it's kind of like, obviously everybody's doing video. How can you not have one?

It's not something. We've dabbled in it.

Colin True

00:40:03.590 - 00:40:04.070

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:40:04.310 - 00:40:55.990

And currently it's no secret. I. I'm. I'm an unabashed ham. Like, I love. I love the attention of being on YouTube, but I. I want to do it in a. An entertaining way, of course.

And entertaining where I. Where I disagree with my work wife. Sean is. Sean is like, yeah, you're entertaining and it's funny. But dude, like, who's gonna find it?

What are they gonna Google to find that? And Sean. And there's more happening in Gear Junkie. If you go to our YouTube page, you'll see it's populating just straightforward gear reviews.

Like, don't. Don't overthink it, dude. Just like, let's do in depth gear reviews. And that makes sense.

They're more dry than I would want to do them if I was making them. But I also.

Colin True

00:40:55.990 - 00:40:57.350

I'm on team with this.

Adam Ruggiero

00:40:57.350 - 00:41:04.030

Yeah, that's the thing, dude. Is like, everybody, like, actually, they do want to know the pack. They don't want to know about your stupid joke or the podcast.

Colin True

00:41:04.430 - 00:41:46.200

We talked about this. And I guess spoilers for anybody who listened to Monday's episode. And then before we get to next Monday's episode episode. But we.

We mentioned Ortovox's press release this past Monday about the new mountain bike line. And to anyone listening who heard that episode, we have heard from Ortvox. We're going to be talking about it. On Monday.

But the thing that I said to somebody, I may have said it to you yesterday of like, actually, this has been interesting, having had that conversation about the Ordvox press release and then being in a room with all these PR folks and I've had this conversation with a couple of times and they empathize with exactly what we said of like, yeah, it's tough. A lot of times brands will just feed us like six bullet points and then say, make it interesting. And there's a little framework of it now.

There's an expectation to play within. And I said, yeah, look, if they had been like, hey, from Ortovox, you know, did you think you needed another mountain bike line? You probably.

Adam Ruggiero

00:41:46.200 - 00:41:47.000

You didn't think you do.

Colin True

00:41:47.480 - 00:42:00.520

But guess what, here's a new one. And it's going to be.

If it was something more like tongue in cheek, leaning into the sort of craziness of like another line of mountain bike clothes, I'd probably be more likely to have read it and said, oh, yeah, I'll check that out. I'm interested.

Adam Ruggiero

00:42:00.600 - 00:42:04.800

Yes, but yes, but yes and yes.

Colin True

00:42:04.800 - 00:42:05.600

And no, no, no.

Adam Ruggiero

00:42:05.600 - 00:42:08.040

This is a yes, but that door swings both ways.

Colin True

00:42:08.120 - 00:42:08.520

Sure.

Adam Ruggiero

00:42:08.600 - 00:42:25.960

The number of hyperbolic insouls press releases I've gotten about game changing insouls. Listen, there's a place for insoles. I am not the person to test insoles. It just, it will never excite me. I'm not that guy.

I have people who will test them.

Colin True

00:42:25.960 - 00:42:27.080

I changed the game.

Adam Ruggiero

00:42:28.040 - 00:42:42.110

What game? Don't you know that was long. That was actually hammered into me by Steven. He's like, if I ever see game changing in one of your stories, you're done.

You're done. You delete it from every press release.

Colin True

00:42:42.340 - 00:42:46.020

If you ever have, like, oh, my God. Office in gear junkie. Put that on the wall, dude.

Adam Ruggiero

00:42:46.420 - 00:42:53.020

So, yes. So I would say yes. No, I agree with you. Like, yeah, you know, the, the bullet points are like, well, do your job. Tell me why I'm excited about this.

Colin True

00:42:53.020 - 00:43:13.850

That goes back to your point about YouTube. It's like, you're right. I mean, I understand. Like, people aren't going to be like, adam Ruggero gear review.

But if they stumble onto the channel and you're who? Yeah, yeah, it's. It is similar to a podcast because people come back for the host.

They come back for the vibe of the show, which you would then be providing in the videos. Oh, my God. This guy Adam, who reviews stuff as another video. I want to see what he has to say.

Adam Ruggiero

00:43:13.850 - 00:43:31.290

It's Tough. Our video guy, Luke is incredibly talented and he's a really good. He's really good. He's really polished.

If you go to our YouTube channel, you'll actually see him because he needs more talent. But he's in la, so it's like getting me out to la doing that. He does advocate for. Give it some personality. Do this.

Colin True

00:43:31.290 - 00:43:31.690

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:43:32.010 - 00:43:40.650

But left to my own devices, I'm just gonna make it, you know, 30 minutes of me saying stupid shit and like making fun of a pack when really I should be reviewing the pack.

Colin True

00:43:40.650 - 00:43:41.090

It works.

Adam Ruggiero

00:43:41.090 - 00:43:42.990

I have so many packs, Colin.

Colin True

00:43:42.990 - 00:43:43.350

Yes.

Adam Ruggiero

00:43:43.350 - 00:43:46.030

I have seen so many packs. They're all.

Colin True

00:43:46.030 - 00:43:47.670

But have you seen the game changing packs?

Adam Ruggiero

00:43:47.750 - 00:44:20.660

Yeah, several times, in fact. Every damn one of them. What's. What's the. What, what's the half? Oh, well, the half is the YouTube because.

Oh, that's the YouTube because, you know, one. It's not. It's no surprise. Obviously need a YouTube, but there's a little bit like, if it's just gear reviews. Yeah, man. I don't know. So you.

I would Never go to YouTube for a gear review. I can't. I need. I'm such a hypocrite. I'd be like, get to the point, man. Like, I have to wait to get.

Colin True

00:44:20.660 - 00:44:22.580

To the 12 minute video I'm not watching.

Adam Ruggiero

00:44:22.580 - 00:44:34.700

Well, that's the thing. Like, I can't help it. There's like, there's like real time and then there's microwave time. Microwave time.

Like three minutes in the real world is nothing. Three minutes in a microwave is like. You're pushing it, man.

Colin True

00:44:34.700 - 00:44:35.140

Oh, my God.

Adam Ruggiero

00:44:35.140 - 00:44:36.420

Three minutes, That's. Are we.

Colin True

00:44:36.580 - 00:44:37.780

I just want a Mac and cheese.

Adam Ruggiero

00:44:37.780 - 00:44:50.960

Yeah, yeah. When you're hungry and you got to watch a three minute countdown, that's a nightmare. And then there's. And microwave time is like YouTube time, right?

It's like, okay, if I look at the thing that says 27 minutes, I was like, there's no way I'm watching this book.

Colin True

00:44:51.040 - 00:44:54.240

I really need to want to watch. This is like a short film, right? Because I got to see it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:44:54.240 - 00:45:00.960

So for gear reviews, I just. I. It takes. It's like, dude, I know what part of the pack I'm curious about.

Colin True

00:45:01.040 - 00:45:01.440

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:01.440 - 00:45:28.050

I got to wait for you to get there. So I would, I would prefer. And that's if you look at the way gear junkies, stories and reviews are constructed.

We have an in short graph that's just like the basic key takeaways. We have specs and all this like the idea being, hey, if you're. If you're at REI and you're.

You're already looking at this, you don't want to be there any longer than you absolutely need to, like, pull it up on Gear Junkie. It gives you just the information you need. If you don't want to read the whole review, you just want to get, like, kind of the quantitative elements.

Boom. Go. Done.

Colin True

00:45:28.050 - 00:45:28.290

Yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:28.290 - 00:45:28.730

Have fun.

Colin True

00:45:28.810 - 00:45:36.570

Yeah. All right. Well, we got. Actually ahead of the show, I guess the. Just kind of last thing I was going to ask you about was did you.

Did you see anything interesting at. At yesterday?

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:36.650 - 00:45:37.530

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Colin True

00:45:37.530 - 00:45:38.330

What was your favorite thing?

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:38.970 - 00:45:40.330

I don't know if it was under embargo. Was it any.

Colin True

00:45:40.330 - 00:45:41.210

No, it was under embargo.

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:41.450 - 00:45:45.170

I don't know. No. We're going to talk a little bit more. I'll talk about one thing.

Colin True

00:45:45.170 - 00:45:45.690

Okay.

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:45.770 - 00:45:51.530

I will say Thule has some really cool stuff. I don't think it's under Embargo. It's a cool bike rack.

Colin True

00:45:51.850 - 00:45:52.690

It'll be on Gear Junk.

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:52.690 - 00:45:53.490

Read about it on Gear Junk.

Colin True

00:45:53.490 - 00:45:54.050

Yeah, yeah.

Adam Ruggiero

00:45:54.050 - 00:46:03.130

But the really cool thing I was excited about. Oh, shit. I'm going to forget the name of the thing. I think it's called Daylight Computer. Oh, they're outside. They're not on the actual. On the floor.

Colin True

00:46:03.130 - 00:46:03.580

Okay.

Adam Ruggiero

00:46:04.050 - 00:46:30.170

They're from California, and they basically made. It's like an iPad. They're developing their own operating system, but it's an iPad. It has zero blue light emission, so it reads like a Kindle.

The whole interface looks like a Kindle. You can take notes on it. You can read a book on it. You can go to YouTube on it. It's all monochromatic.

If you're reading at night and you up the backlight, it's an orange light. So if you ever looked at, like, blue blocker sunglasses or something, that's what it looks like.

Colin True

00:46:30.170 - 00:46:30.610

Okay.

Adam Ruggiero

00:46:30.610 - 00:47:31.600

Their whole point is because if you're going outdoors and they identified the outdoors as a market, you shouldn't be locked on your device.

One, it should feel like a notebook, and two, it shouldn't be so visually alluring that you're not fucking paying attention to the fact that you went camping. And the display. I'm still fascinated by Kindles. Like, I'm like, it's paper, but it's not paper. You know, I'm very easily amused.

But they did that with a full tablet. It works just like an iPad. You can have all your apps on it. It. But visually, it's not meant to keep you there.

It's meant to feel like a notebook that does iPad stuff. And they're not developing their own chips yet. It's not as high performance as like an M2 or whatever Mac device, but they're legit.

It's bonafide and it's way more robust. I thought it was just going to be like a doodle, like a doodle journal thing and that's it. But it's any app you want to download, you can.

But if you're watching YouTube on it, it's monochromatic. Like you can watch it if you want to watch it, but the whole point is not to keep.

Colin True

00:47:31.600 - 00:47:33.160

It will function like more like a tablet.

Adam Ruggiero

00:47:33.160 - 00:47:35.880

Exactly, exactly. But it looks like paper.

Colin True

00:47:35.960 - 00:47:36.520

Interesting.

Adam Ruggiero

00:47:36.520 - 00:47:42.440

It's super awesome. That's what I'm excited about. All right, what about you? Before we go, I'm asking you a question. What'd you see?

Colin True

00:47:43.560 - 00:47:45.800

Probably Kool Aid coffee. Did you see the Kool A Coffee?

Adam Ruggiero

00:47:45.800 - 00:47:46.520

I'm going to see him today.

Colin True

00:47:46.520 - 00:47:46.920

Okay.

Adam Ruggiero

00:47:46.920 - 00:47:48.840

Sean said the same thing. He's like, this is actually really cool.

Colin True

00:47:50.200 - 00:48:37.590

I guess this. I'm gonna. Well, Sean told you about it. So, I mean, it's basically taking number one.

It takes a pot of coffee and makes it so you can do a true pour over in a backcountry setting. Right. And I know there are other people who've tried this before. This is clearly a better mousetrap compared to those other ones.

It's like a disc and you put on top of your mug and you can just like do a pour over right on top of it. And it's great.

But then they also have a kind of Keurig style device for it, which you put the disc in this kind of little holder thing, put your cup underneath.

And then there's this like oscillating, like mimics the motion of a pour over, pours the water into it and times it perfectly at the right temperature. And I had one yesterday and it tasted like a really good pour over. And you can do it with your own beans if you want to.

You don't have to buy the pod. So the whole thing is, you know.

Adam Ruggiero

00:48:37.590 - 00:48:38.550

Your own beans, you could.

Colin True

00:48:38.550 - 00:49:06.720

They have like a reusable filter. So if you want to grind your own beans and put it in there, that's where they had me.

I'm like, now I. I want one of these because we do drip coffee in my house mostly. So like my wife and I can each just have like two cups of coffee. Otherwise I would like to make. I. I'm kind of a coffee nerd.

I like to make pore overs and stuff like that. But it's a pain in the ass when it's like 5:30 in the morning and you're trying to make coffee. Right. This is kind of cool.

You just like slide your, the pot in there or your beans in there or your, your ground, your, you grind some beans, throw it in there and it'll make a little pour over for you. You don't have to stand there like an that is your coffee, your water for 20 minutes.

Adam Ruggiero

00:49:06.720 - 00:49:07.600

Is it going to catch on?

Colin True

00:49:08.720 - 00:49:49.400

I think the pods, I don't know if the device now the device they're looking at like you know we're sitting in a hotel room. Right. Like I could see that total here and as opposed to a Keurig, you know it's definitely a better solution than a Keurig.

The coffee will be better and it's more environmentally friendly. All that, everything's compostable. All of that stuff.

I think for if I were going to go camping and I wanted to take just some things along for coffee. Easy solution for coffee. Yes, 100%. Because they're thin. You could take it backpacking.

You just throw it in your, your, your, your camping, you know, kitchen bin, whatever it is.

And if you have you know your fire up the jet, boil whatever you use and you get your hot water you can just make a pour over right there, camp in it and it's going to work great rate. See I, I definitely believe in, I think that's a good, the fact that.

Adam Ruggiero

00:49:49.400 - 00:49:50.240

You can use your own coffee.

Colin True

00:49:50.240 - 00:50:01.080

That's, that's the nice thing I asked because it's like well if I was going to use this in my house I definitely would like to use my own beans. Like oh yeah, we absolutely will have a reusable filter for it. And I'm like okay, I'm in. It's like 175 bucks for the unit.

Adam Ruggiero

00:50:01.080 - 00:50:01.480

Really?

Colin True

00:50:01.560 - 00:50:11.680

Yeah. And that's the one they're developed for the hotels.

They're going to develop one that's gonna be a little more expensive for the home which will have like a big water tank on the back or whatever. So yeah. I'm curious to see what you think after you see it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:50:11.680 - 00:50:14.360

So that's the thing Oma. That's actually new interesting stuff.

Colin True

00:50:14.440 - 00:50:15.680

That is new and interesting and it.

Adam Ruggiero

00:50:15.680 - 00:50:18.000

Feels like we've been in this lull for a while which if there's something.

Colin True

00:50:18.000 - 00:50:59.030

That missing from Oma. I guess this is kind of last point because we do have to go.

It's missing because it's about, I call about 80% of the open to buy in the outdoor industry. Right. It's almost, almost every relevant brand and notable brand in the industry.

I would like, I don't know how they would work in more emerging brands because that what. Who needs PR more than emerging brands? Kool A is an example of one of those because they have, they, they work with cgpr.

So like, that's why they get to show up here. But I would like to. How do we do more of that? But that takes, you know, more PR agencies bringing on some emerging brands, right.

Who usually don't have the money to pay for PR agency. So that would be the one maybe improvement. How do we get that to happen?

But I mean, it's probably picking nits at this point because it's such a good event.

Adam Ruggiero

00:50:59.030 - 00:51:00.630

So heard good time.

Colin True

00:51:00.709 - 00:51:02.030

Yeah. Hey, thanks for coming on, brother.

Adam Ruggiero

00:51:02.030 - 00:51:02.550

I love it. Let's do it.

Colin True

00:51:02.550 - 00:51:03.790

Let's do this again. Yeah, absolutely.

Adam Ruggiero

00:51:03.790 - 00:51:04.230

Cool.

Colin True

00:51:04.230 - 00:51:04.710

All right.

Adam Ruggiero

00:51:05.430 - 00:51:05.830

All right.

Colin True

00:51:05.830 - 00:51:25.020

That's the show. We want your email. Send them to myrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LLC. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening.

Here to take us out, guys. I'm gonna see him next week, two weeks from now. Sorry, two weeks from now. Chris Demake's from Less Than Jake.

He's here to sing the Rock fight fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.

Chris DeMakes

00:51:25.020 - 00:52:20.580

Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth.

Sleep sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.

We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big fights about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fly, Fuck fight. Rock Rock fight. Welcome to the rock flight Rock fight.

Rock fight. Welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight. Rock flight Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight. Rock fight.