Can Run Outpace Outdoor? Plus: Are U.S. Outdoor Brands at Risk Abroad?
- colin7931
- Sep 15
- 43 min read
It's Monday on The Rock Fight! Which means that Colin is joined by outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford and brand & creative expert Producer Dave to run through the following topics that have emerged over the past week (or so):
Comeback brand feedback & Eoin's surf brand game: We discuss the listener feedback to last weeks episode where we nominated the candidates for 2026 comeback brand of the year and Eoin quizzes Colin & Producer Dave about their knowledge of current up and coming surf brands. (04:05)
Topo has themselves a quarter and continues the trend of running brands showing big growth which begs the question, can run overtake outdoor like outdoor once overtook surf and ski? (14:56)
Adidas releases a new shoe designed just for running on the treadmill. No really, they did that. (21:55)
The Rock Fight Lightning Round! This weeks fast acting topics: Glamping over camping, are outdoor retailers missing the boat on the grow wearable tech category, and Combat Flip Flops! (26:26)
Support those who support The Rock Fight! This weeks partners: Ibex, Fjallraven, Royal Robbins, Lems Shoes, Conatus Counsel. (30:37)
Pre-holiday blues? Three surveys dropped this past week painting a relative gloomy picture of the upcoming holiday shopping season. (35:32)
Are US outdoor brands at risk overseas? A new article from The Guardian details challenges being faced by US fashion brands, are outdoor brands facing the same challenges? (39:20)
For The Parting Shot Producer Dave offers an update on the roll out of Columbia's campaign and rebrand. (44:42)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.640 - 00:01:02.130
Breaking news from the IBEX Outdoor News Desk. This just in. REI has been acquired by Bass Pro Shops.
Staff have been informed to surrender their signature green vests in exchange for new blaze orange uniforms. Additionally, the company will be rebranding its historic opt outside event as open season. Alright, maybe that's not true, but you know what is?
Ibex outdoor clothing. They make the best wool apparel on the market.
From everyday essentials like the goatee to expedition pieces like the mammoth hoodie, Ibex has premium merino layers ready to fully outfit any customer.
As a privately held brand run by a team of end users, Ibex does things differently with a focus on heritage, no bullshit, sustainability and premium performance. Ibex is what you reach for when you want the best.
Schedule some time to see the IBEX team at GOA Connect in Kansas City this November and see why Ibex is the perfect choice for specialty retail shops. And hey, you want to see more today? Head to ibex.com rock fight.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:02.450 - 00:01:08.610
Rock fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:01:09.890 - 00:01:28.010
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and joining me today they have on their Combat Flip flops and they're ready to roll.
It's the Monday Boys. Owen Comerford and producer Dave right?
Eoin Comerford
00:01:28.010 - 00:01:29.470
We're yes indeed.
Producer Dave
00:01:29.710 - 00:01:30.990
Combat Flip Flops.
Colin True
00:01:30.990 - 00:01:36.030
We'll get into the Combat Flip Flops in a little bit here, but I'm sure you guys are ready for anything apparently.
Eoin Comerford
00:01:37.950 - 00:01:38.430
Yes.
Colin True
00:01:38.750 - 00:02:28.730
Well today we're going to talk about more than Combat Flip flops, but before we do that we have some programming reminders for you because we never want you to miss an episode of the Rock Fight. So please click Follow on the podcast app you are using right now if you're new to the show.
Maybe you already did that, but we would like it if you did. So please follow the show tomorrow.
Doug Schnitzman won't be opening the container like he always does on Tuesday because this week Open Container will be out on Wednesday. We had a one day delay in production so you're going to see Open Container on Wednesday so you know it'll all be okay.
And then on Thursday you'll get an all new episode of Gear Abby with host Shantae Salibare who answers all of your Burning Outdoor questions.
So be sure to also follow Open Container and Gear Abbey on their respective podcast feeds and producer Dave how can our listeners get even more out of the Rock Fight than maybe they're currently getting at this exact moment in time.
Producer Dave
00:02:29.290 - 00:02:44.730
Well, there's two ways, Colin. I mean, first, you want to subscribe to that newsletter, right, and head to Rockfight Co sign up for that newsletter.
Be amazed, be bewildered, be entertained, be informed. But before we move on, Colin, how does one get in touch with Gear Abbey?
Colin True
00:02:45.050 - 00:03:07.750
Oh, excellent question. You send your emails to DearGearAbbyMail.com and actually Owen's going to tell you how to reach out to the Rock Fight.
I'm a little concerned because I think we're already getting more emails for Gear Abby and the Rock Fight cats and we have like four times the downloads or whatever. More than that, actually. So, yeah, I think it's the Shantae effect, maybe.
Producer Dave
00:03:07.910 - 00:03:09.110
Yep, yep.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:09.430 - 00:03:20.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, I'm not bitter at all that she's beaten us now twice in the popular vote, but anywho, uh, yeah, so she's gonna beat us in the email vote now too. Right?
Colin True
00:03:20.680 - 00:03:25.080
So if you do wanna beat Gear Abbey and you wanna reach out to the Rock Fight. Oh, and what should our listeners do?
Eoin Comerford
00:03:25.640 - 00:03:42.120
They should email us@myrockfightmail.com they can also reach us on LinkedIn. Just search up Rock Fight or on Instagram, where we are rockfightco, all one word and follow along to all of the excitement there.
Send us a dm, what have you.
Colin True
00:03:42.760 - 00:03:50.840
I just like to think that our maybe fewer emails is just because everyone agrees with us in the outdoor industry. They hear our podcast like, no notes, 10 out of 10. You guys are good.
Producer Dave
00:03:51.000 - 00:03:53.000
We hear it when they don't, so that's for sure.
Colin True
00:03:53.240 - 00:03:53.960
That's true.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:53.960 - 00:03:55.800
Fair. That is fair. Yes.
Colin True
00:03:56.040 - 00:04:03.800
Although Todd Frank slides in there quite a bit. You probably hear from Todd Frank the most. This is my obligatory Todd Frank mention on the podcast. We gotta talk about him every week, I feel like.
Producer Dave
00:04:03.880 - 00:04:04.520
Good call.
Colin True
00:04:05.240 - 00:04:42.890
Okay, so kicking us off today, last Monday here on the Rock Fight, Dave, Owen and I made some predictions about who will be the comeback brand of the year in 2026.
And if you go back and listen to that episode, or you should go back and listen to it if you haven't, but if you did miss it, the brands we had in contention for that honor were Black Diamond, Chaco, Columbia Hydro Flask, Marmot, Nike, acg, Prana, Solo Stove, the North Face, Under Armour and Vans.
Owen, of course posted about this on his very popular LinkedIn page, which you should go and follow the consigliere to the Rock Fight, owen Comerford on LinkedIn. Go follow him over there. And of course, on that post people started weighing with their own choices.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:42.890 - 00:04:43.250
So.
Colin True
00:04:43.410 - 00:05:21.150
Oh, and here's who your your followers voted for. I, I kind of just did a little tally. So from your comments, Nike ACG got three votes as did Vans. Those were the top vote getters. Very funny.
From the, you know the, the, the pro core crowd on LinkedIn. Kind of like those are the top, the top vote getters. Columbia with two, Marmot with two, Prana with one.
The North Face and Hydro Flask also with Run with one. We did have some write ins for Goal Zero, Ocean Pacific, Woolrich, ber, Neurona and Rab. So that was pretty interesting.
But yeah, Nike ACG and Vans, those were the top vote getters from your readers.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:22.190 - 00:06:01.020
I was surprised, honestly. Nike acg, sure. Actually there was some love for Nike really from a bunch of different folks. But the Vans one surprised me.
That was the one that was like what this? Not only because a to your point, like this is the court outdoor crowd supposedly, but also I just, I just don't see it with Vans. Yeah.
But hey, what do I know? Interesting though are the folks that got zero votes. Black diamond, who we had said was like the shoe in. Right.
Colin True
00:06:01.100 - 00:06:03.420
This is bad news for you guys. Sorry, Black Diamond.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:03.820 - 00:06:12.100
Sorry guys. Choco. Okay, not a shocker. Perhaps Solo Stove, which is my pick and Under Armour, probably not a shocker.
Colin True
00:06:12.100 - 00:06:19.960
Maybe the lack. Black diamond was just.
There was a general agreement with our stance on that is like they're the presumed favorite and just nobody kind of weighed in to throw their weight there.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:20.120 - 00:06:20.480
Maybe.
Producer Dave
00:06:20.480 - 00:06:31.880
Talk about, talk about turning the numbers there. Colin, you got no votes, but I know that's just a ringing endorsement like. That's exactly right. That's impressive.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:31.960 - 00:06:34.920
I wouldn't say this was the most scientific survey in the world.
Producer Dave
00:06:36.680 - 00:06:40.680
I would remove the word scientific from it altogether, frankly.
Colin True
00:06:40.840 - 00:06:45.880
Next week when we're covering the Neil Fisk press release about a change in strategy based off of the.
Producer Dave
00:06:47.880 - 00:06:48.520
That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:49.160 - 00:06:54.200
I'm sure that's all that Neil has to do with his time is to surf the comments on my post. That's right.
Producer Dave
00:06:54.920 - 00:06:56.680
Hey, it's called executive research.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:57.160 - 00:06:57.800
That's right.
Colin True
00:06:58.360 - 00:07:06.890
Okay, enough on that. We've talked too much about that. Let's move on here. But Owen, I think it sounds like you have a little game that you've prepared for us. They do.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:06.890 - 00:07:17.850
Yeah. So I was reading CISO and some of the excellent reporting there and of course you know, I've got the executive pass to see the really cool. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Colin True
00:07:18.010 - 00:07:19.770
You and like two other people or.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:19.770 - 00:07:21.690
Is it at least three?
Producer Dave
00:07:22.170 - 00:07:25.690
So anyway, Colin, don't be bitter just because they don't let you in.
Colin True
00:07:25.690 - 00:07:27.770
I want my free executive pass. Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:28.330 - 00:07:31.370
No, actually I got the pass because I was a contributor.
Colin True
00:07:31.450 - 00:07:32.090
Oh, that's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:32.170 - 00:07:58.510
I've written articles for those guys. So anyway, I'm not gonna. I don't pay real.
One of the excellent articles that is available on the Executive House was about talking to different surf shops and what brands are kind of popping and doing well. So the funny thing for me, though, as I went through all these brands were the number of them that I wasn't that familiar with. Okay.
Colin True
00:07:58.510 - 00:07:59.030
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:59.430 - 00:08:09.170
I've pulled together 10 brands here that came up in this and maybe one or two other articles and I want to see if you guys are familiar with these brands. All right, so it's 10.
Colin True
00:08:10.210 - 00:08:14.490
And surf shops are still a thing. Should we clarify that for that still happens out there?
Eoin Comerford
00:08:14.490 - 00:08:15.250
That does still happen.
Colin True
00:08:15.250 - 00:08:15.650
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:15.650 - 00:08:18.130
Just double checking that sell stuff. Yeah.
Colin True
00:08:18.370 - 00:08:20.610
So not owned by Rip Curl.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:21.490 - 00:08:30.290
Not owned by Rip Curl. These are mainly independent surf shops. So I'm going to give you the brand. You've got to tell me if you're familiar with them or not.
Colin True
00:08:30.370 - 00:08:30.930
Got it.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:31.160 - 00:08:37.800
Okay. And, and, and I will if you say. I, I know who it is.
You're gonna have to actually tell me a little bit about the brand to prove that you're not just bullshitting.
Colin True
00:08:37.800 - 00:08:38.280
Damn it.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:38.280 - 00:08:38.520
Okay.
Colin True
00:08:38.520 - 00:08:40.320
I was totally gonna say I knew who all these brands were.
Producer Dave
00:08:40.320 - 00:08:40.680
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:40.680 - 00:08:49.240
Okay. And so we, we will keep a score here as to who knows which. Okay, here we go. So we're gonna start with Z Supply.
Colin True
00:08:49.880 - 00:08:51.960
How do you spell that? Z?
Eoin Comerford
00:08:52.440 - 00:08:59.040
The letter Z or Z if you're, if you're. Yeah, if you're English or Canadian. Z, like the spelling bee.
Colin True
00:08:59.040 - 00:09:01.240
Can you use Z supply in a sentence?
Eoin Comerford
00:09:02.440 - 00:09:04.080
This could take forever. Do you know who it is?
Colin True
00:09:04.080 - 00:09:05.640
No, I have no idea, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:09:05.880 - 00:09:08.840
I don't. They're not new necessarily, are they?
Eoin Comerford
00:09:09.160 - 00:09:11.320
Not necessarily, no. Okay.
Producer Dave
00:09:12.520 - 00:09:17.040
I just. I would consider them just one of the true brands.
Colin True
00:09:17.040 - 00:09:18.200
You don't know who they are?
Producer Dave
00:09:19.240 - 00:09:22.160
I've seen their logo. I know I've seen their logo.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:22.160 - 00:09:22.920
Who are they then?
Colin True
00:09:22.920 - 00:09:23.400
It's like.
Producer Dave
00:09:23.400 - 00:09:25.240
I don't know. It's been around for 10, 15 years.
Colin True
00:09:25.240 - 00:09:27.160
All right, Half a point for knowing their logo.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:27.440 - 00:09:28.640
That's, that's, that's it.
Producer Dave
00:09:29.600 - 00:09:32.000
What are they about? No, I don't know what they differentiate.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:32.000 - 00:09:33.400
Okay. You've got no fucking idea?
Producer Dave
00:09:33.400 - 00:09:33.600
No.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:33.600 - 00:09:43.280
All right, is Z Supply. Is women's kind of like women's casuals. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Fair Harbor.
Colin True
00:09:44.480 - 00:09:47.720
Nothing. I'm just going to fair hard. I'm not even going to try.
Producer Dave
00:09:47.720 - 00:09:48.480
No, no.
Colin True
00:09:48.640 - 00:09:55.920
I mean, it's good. Like today's what we probably cross like at some point at trade shows I've seen like. Right. But I made no idea. Nothing.
I could tell you nothing about them.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:56.710 - 00:10:07.110
By the way. I was 0 for 2 at this point as well. Kind of Men's casuals, swim shorts, not terribly surfy. Okay. Dark seas.
Colin True
00:10:08.070 - 00:10:10.150
I think that was a show on AMC last year.
Producer Dave
00:10:10.390 - 00:10:18.790
I was going to say, I think it's the sixth installment in the friggin Pirates of the Caribbean franchise.
Colin True
00:10:19.030 - 00:10:19.830
Stephen Kingdom.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:20.950 - 00:10:26.790
I was going to invest more time in this and it was going to be a contest of surf brand or Showtime originally.
Producer Dave
00:10:28.690 - 00:10:29.410
That's amazing.
Colin True
00:10:29.410 - 00:10:30.930
Sea Supply. I mean, that could work.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:31.650 - 00:10:33.770
Yeah, but I didn't have that much time. Anyway.
Producer Dave
00:10:33.770 - 00:10:36.210
Is that surf company or is it a skate company?
Eoin Comerford
00:10:37.010 - 00:10:49.010
It is sort of. It is. So again, zeros for both of you. It is a men's surf fashion slash skate. A lot of graphic tees. Founded by the skateboarder Adrian Lopez.
Producer Dave
00:10:49.250 - 00:10:50.490
Yeah, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:50.490 - 00:10:53.090
Okay. All right. Park it.
Colin True
00:10:54.700 - 00:10:57.100
Park it's that the app you use at the beach parking lot?
Producer Dave
00:10:57.500 - 00:11:00.220
Oh, that would be great. I would love that because that sucks.
Colin True
00:11:00.220 - 00:11:02.300
I feel like this game's killing all of our credibility.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:02.940 - 00:11:05.100
I know. That's fine. Park it.
Colin True
00:11:05.260 - 00:11:06.300
Nope, I got nothing.
Producer Dave
00:11:06.860 - 00:11:07.420
Nothing.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:07.660 - 00:11:13.820
Nothing. It's beach chairs. Okay. Okay, here's one I think. Here's one I think you're gonna get. Florence.
Colin True
00:11:14.460 - 00:11:16.180
Sure, sure. Apparel.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:16.180 - 00:11:17.940
Okay, all right. Men's apparel.
Colin True
00:11:17.940 - 00:11:18.340
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:18.340 - 00:11:19.300
Yes, exactly. Okay.
Colin True
00:11:19.300 - 00:11:21.740
They actually were at last year's outdoor retailer.
Producer Dave
00:11:22.480 - 00:11:22.880
They were.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:22.880 - 00:11:27.040
Really? Yeah. Okay, here's another one. Avva.
Colin True
00:11:27.520 - 00:11:28.080
Nope.
Producer Dave
00:11:29.840 - 00:11:30.720
Ava.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:30.800 - 00:11:53.450
No, no. So this is a men's surf fashion. It's actually shortened for ambassadors with aloha.
So the VV is like a W. It's a surfer brand founded by professional surfer Keoa Cazimero based. Based in Hawaii. So. Okay. Okay. This one, this one you might get Pelagic.
Colin True
00:11:54.090 - 00:11:54.810
What is it?
Eoin Comerford
00:11:55.450 - 00:11:59.370
Pelagic. A G, I C. Yes.
Colin True
00:12:00.010 - 00:12:00.890
I got nothing.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:02.410 - 00:12:08.650
Okay. Performance, fishing, clothing. So pretty nice stuff, actually. Psd.
Producer Dave
00:12:09.130 - 00:12:10.170
Not surfing.
Colin True
00:12:12.730 - 00:12:13.530
Disqualified.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:15.770 - 00:12:20.710
Whatever. I mean, psd. No, psd, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:12:20.710 - 00:12:22.230
Psd. Is that also fishing?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:23.270 - 00:12:30.630
No, no, no. That is actually. It's underwear and activewear with very loud prints. Okay. Tenor.
Producer Dave
00:12:31.430 - 00:12:32.070
Oh, that one.
Colin True
00:12:32.070 - 00:12:34.510
As in like a tenor in the choir. T, N. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:34.510 - 00:12:39.830
T, E. N, O, R, E. But the long sound over the O. I see.
Colin True
00:12:40.150 - 00:12:43.910
Nope. What are we getting at here? Like, is this like you Know, like.
Producer Dave
00:12:44.390 - 00:12:51.450
Are we like predictions around like PSD from that rich upstate New York surf brands.
Colin True
00:12:51.450 - 00:12:52.690
Is this leading to what?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:54.530 - 00:12:57.890
Okay, let's keep this ball rolling. Okay. Okay, last one.
Producer Dave
00:12:58.130 - 00:12:59.170
What's the last one?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:59.570 - 00:13:00.850
Beach and Barn.
Producer Dave
00:13:01.570 - 00:13:04.930
Oh, shut up. I feel like beach and Barn, are.
Colin True
00:13:04.930 - 00:13:08.530
They an authentic brands brand? Honestly, I feel like I heard of them, but I could be somebody else.
Producer Dave
00:13:08.610 - 00:13:10.690
Table magazine for rich people.
Colin True
00:13:11.010 - 00:13:12.450
It's the country living for the.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:13.090 - 00:13:20.050
Yeah, no, no, beach and Barn. It's actually more of an Atlantic coast fashion. So it's coastal but a little bit more on the preppy side.
Colin True
00:13:20.050 - 00:13:21.870
Oh, so like southeast Vineyard vines.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:23.390 - 00:13:25.070
A little bit. Little bit Vineyard vines.
Producer Dave
00:13:25.150 - 00:13:34.670
Actually going further back, Colin, there was a brand called Atlantic Rancher that probably fits exactly into that catalog brand. Yeah, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:34.670 - 00:13:37.189
So anyway, so okay, so basically of.
Producer Dave
00:13:37.189 - 00:13:40.310
The 10 small towns, big water. Come on, one.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:40.310 - 00:13:42.430
You got one. Okay. Yeah. Okay, good.
Producer Dave
00:13:42.430 - 00:13:46.830
And I would say that you listed maybe two surf brands out of that whole discussion.
Colin True
00:13:46.990 - 00:13:55.370
This came out of coverage from Surf Expo though, right? I mean, so are we kind of getting at like, hey man, this is like where the surf industries at? Is that kind of like they're in.
Producer Dave
00:13:55.370 - 00:14:09.610
The same dark place as we are, right? Like all those surf brands are no longer. So they're left with these kind of shadow, like well, we get wet so therefore we must be a surf brand.
I no outer known. Right? No Vista.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:09.610 - 00:14:12.650
I wasn't going to give you, I wasn't going to give you the easy ones.
Producer Dave
00:14:12.810 - 00:14:20.490
The easy ones. Yeah, fair enough. Anyway, all right, that was amazing. All right, so what does that say, Owen?
Colin True
00:14:20.490 - 00:14:25.350
Yeah, what does it sound like? All kidding aside, like what do you think this says about like where we are with things?
Eoin Comerford
00:14:25.910 - 00:14:45.030
I think it says that the, the surf industry actually has some good up and coming brands that are actually popping in these stores. I mean there are other ones obviously.
Like the level above them would be the Katons and the Rhythms and those guys that are, that are doing well and Florence really is up there. I gave you that one as just so that you wouldn't.
Producer Dave
00:14:45.430 - 00:14:46.550
That was nice of you.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:47.030 - 00:14:55.750
Right, so. But no, it says that there is, you know, the ecosystem is still working. There are still brands that are popping.
So I think that's, that's a good thing.
Colin True
00:14:56.850 - 00:15:05.810
Like what has become pretty normal around here lately. We're going to start today with some footwear headlines. More specifically, some news around a trail running brand. Amazing, right?
We never do that anymore.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:05.970 - 00:15:06.930
Oh, never.
Colin True
00:15:07.970 - 00:16:04.400
This time it's Topo Athletic who according to SGB last week reported a 45% year over year increase in Q2.
CEO Tony Post credited the growth across all channels of distribution, leading to the quarterly increase, as well as the driver behind this year's sales, which Post says are up 62%.
So, Owen, I don't know if we need to break down the specifics of what's going right with Topo, because it's probably similar to what's going right with a lot of these footwear brands that we're talking about on a weekly basis. I'm kind of curious what you think is happening with the category.
I mean, if you go back years, it feels like for a long time we had four or five prominent running shoe brands and a rotating cast of bit players that like, you know, like, oh, innovate's on the wall now, or, you know, another brand's going to take the place of that, whatever it is. But over the past 15 years, it does seem that there is increasingly room for growth. And what do you think has really changed to allow?
Because, like I was joking about at the beginning of the segment, we're talking about running shoes a lot. It's just like the dominant topic right now.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:04.640 - 00:17:52.600
What I would say is let's not just gloss over plus 62%. I mean, yes, the category is doing well, but they're kind of kicking ass over over at Topo. So, yeah, so kudos to Tony and the whole. The whole gang.
But in terms of what's driving these trends, it's all sort of coming together. For athletic footwear. You've got, first of all, one of the things was footwear casualization, right?
And that was partially driven by casualization in the workplace where people were no longer wearing loafers or what have you. And that accelerated during COVID where everyone's now at home, they don't need anything that looks nice, shoes wise.
They want to wear what's comfortable. Hey, I'm going to wear athletic footwear. So that definitely supercharged the category there.
Also, obviously, the whole athleisure movement, which was tied into that same kind of thing. If you're going to be wearing athleisure, you're going to be wearing athletic shoes, right?
I mean, it would look kind of silly if you wore a brown shoe with leggings. So that's really driven it as well, combined with the whole healthy lifestyle movement, or at least wanting to look like you're healthy.
So those have all come together, plus the maximalist soul piece that's come out with the Hocus of the world, et cetera. Those just appeal to runners.
But they appeal from a comfort perspective and also to even older customers who are the ones who have the most disposable income.
So you're seeing a lot of older people who maybe never would have thought of wearing athletic shoes, are now running around in hokas or maybe even on or what have you.
And then finally you've got the whole emergence of trail running, which has just continued to drive even more acceptance of running as opposed to hiking as the way to interact with the outdoors.
Producer Dave
00:17:52.990 - 00:18:33.960
Yeah, I just want to, you know, just kind of reiterate what Owen said too. It's like, look, their success is not, you know, it's an overnight 15 year success. Right.
They have put in the investment and the structure to change the way they go to market. Their color assortment, their style assortment is vastly different than it used to be. Way more on trend.
They've paid attention to their brand in a way that maybe they didn't always do in the past. And so I think what you're seeing is the results of all of this.
These seeds that have been laid, plus these market conditions that start to change the tone and the receptiveness. But yeah, they've done a lot right to get them to this point. And now you're just seeing the. Seeing it move.
Colin True
00:18:34.280 - 00:19:08.510
No, and you're both right. Total kudos to Tony and team, whether we talked about them pretty recently, but those are pretty some bonkers numbers frankly.
So good job everybody over at topo. But the 15 year window you referenced, Dave, is kind of, it's almost what I'm referring to. It's like post Born to run barefoot movement.
Barefoot movement. Growth. Right. You have.
And in the past, I'm sorry, I'm reflecting on my time at Timberland when we were bringing out some different running shoes and whatever, there just wasn't room.
Like it was like literally like scratching to get a shoe on the wall because you know, they had 32 different ASICs and then there was one spot for somebody else.
Producer Dave
00:19:08.670 - 00:19:24.970
No, yeah, you're right. And I was just, I was just agreeing with that.
And two, if you're just going to talk about your product feature, there's not going to create that room. Right. It's just there just wasn't the ability. You got to tell the story and build that tr.
And I think that's what they've really turned their attention to.
Colin True
00:19:25.450 - 00:20:27.160
And I'm sure that some of this is at retail. There's been a little more acceptance.
If you don't need that sort of super dominant one brand, maybe they kind of like Fewer styles from some brands to create room for other brands as well.
But it kind of leads me to think about, like we were talking about before we hit record about, there was a time when surf and ski were like the top dogs in the industry, right? And outdoor almost existed in a way to service them.
Like, if you go back to the 60s and 70s and you told those folks in that industry that one day outdoor is going to eventually outpace you, I don't think that they would believe you. But eventually that is ultimately what happened. And I'm just starting to wonder.
Kind of a bit of a crazy experiment here, guys, but, like, could run retail do the same to outdoor? I mean, if you look at the blending of functional apparel, we just had this week satisfy a run brand, launch a polartech Alpha T shirt, right?
I mean, so like, which is. Which was a fabric that was launched with marmot back in 2013.
So you have the expansion of running footwear like we're talking about, and the sort of diminishing presence of outdoor specific gear like we've been talking about in the last couple weeks around here, too. Is that a possibility that run is going to eventually outpace outdoor?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:27.480 - 00:21:32.170
It's going to outpace outdoor. I think what you see is that the outdoor industry over the years has been a bit of a chameleon, right?
It's willing to adopt whatever trends are getting people outside. And to your point, it was ski, then it was surf, now it's run. So it's not a matter of the run industry outpacing or taking over outdoor.
It's more the outdoor industry adopting run as one of its key growth vectors. Right? And you look at it, and it isn't all totally just going out and grabbing run.
So one could argue hoka on, they're not really outdoor brands at all, but you see them in almost every outdoor store. But you've got Salomon, right? You've got Topo, you've got Altra, True outdoor brands that are all driving the category as well.
And you've got true traditional outdoor brands like North Face, Merrell, hike brands, really, in many cases that are getting into run, and not just trail running, but actually in some cases road running shoes as well. So it's more just the outdoor industry being kind of agile and staying up with what the trends are that are driving people outdoors.
Colin True
00:21:32.970 - 00:21:38.170
I just need to take two points away from Team Comerford for mentioning Salomon. Okay. I just wanted to mark that down.
Producer Dave
00:21:39.610 - 00:21:42.610
It made so much sense, though. I was going along with it.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:42.610 - 00:21:45.510
I was like, oh, that's a point, Karstad.
Colin True
00:21:45.510 - 00:22:19.520
All right, you got suckered in. No, I. I just. It's going to be an interesting thing to see how this develops and going forward over the next five, ten years, for sure.
So let's stay in the shoe world for this next story, because I need to issue an apology to everyone for all of my grousing about the growth of gravel shoes as a category.
Because according to an article earlier this month on gearpatrol.com Adidas is releasing the Tread Flow, the first shoe designed specifically for anybody want to take a guess running on a treadmill. The Adidas treadmill. The Adidas Triumph.
Producer Dave
00:22:19.520 - 00:22:20.840
It's not outdoor, Colin.
Colin True
00:22:21.640 - 00:22:52.530
The Adidas Tread Flow will offer a lightweight, more breathable pair of shoes that offer zero weatherproofing and an outsole that Adidas is calling, quote, light traction that is specifically formulated to interact with treadmill belts.
And I said I need to apologize mostly about my grousing for the category of gravel shoes, because little did I know that the category of treadmill shoes was about to drop. And I really am having a tough time with this because I think running on a treadmill sucks, but, man, does this make sense.
Way more sense than gravel shoes makes to me. What did you guys think?
Eoin Comerford
00:22:53.330 - 00:23:15.980
Totally. Because, I mean, you think.
I mean, part of what we're bitching about with gravel is the difference between a gravel shoe and a trail running shoe is minimal. Right? It's just like, what? Okay, but this actually makes sense because you don't need the weatherproofing. It's all happening indoors.
You don't have to worry about, you know, different terrain or whatever. It's a fucking treadmill, right? It's going to be flat. It's going to have a little bit of bounce to it, right? I mean, yeah.
Producer Dave
00:23:15.980 - 00:23:16.340
Why?
Eoin Comerford
00:23:17.780 - 00:23:23.420
The thing that got me was, like, why. Why is this the first treadmill shoe? Why hasn't somebody thought of this before?
Colin True
00:23:23.420 - 00:23:29.700
I feel stupid for not thinking of this sooner because there are so many people out there who only run on treadmills. They will not run outside.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:29.700 - 00:23:48.670
But the interesting thing for me was it's still $150, so. So it's not like you're.
It's not like we've taken away all this weatherproofing and all this other stuff and, you know, and all this traction stuff, and, hey, now you can have a shoe for 80 bucks that is. That works great. No, we're actually going to specialize, remove a bunch of features and charge you $150.
Colin True
00:23:48.910 - 00:23:50.990
Dave. What do you got on the treadmill shoe?
Producer Dave
00:23:51.230 - 00:23:54.710
I don't know. Didn't we already talk about this? No.
Colin True
00:23:54.710 - 00:24:01.230
Adidas last year came out with a one use marathon shoe, like a one time shoe that you wear for a marathon.
Producer Dave
00:24:01.230 - 00:24:03.830
And then we didn't talk about the trail or the.
Colin True
00:24:03.830 - 00:24:04.750
No, this is new.
Producer Dave
00:24:04.910 - 00:24:17.380
No, this is it. I mean, I don't know, gravel shoes, you know, treadmill shoes. I mean, like I said, what's next? You know, a cobblestone specific retro runner.
Like really, what are.
Colin True
00:24:17.930 - 00:24:19.210
I think you could crush it with that, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:24:19.290 - 00:24:21.850
Probably could. Right? Patriot colors, let's go.
Colin True
00:24:22.090 - 00:24:32.490
And I mean, I'm not kidding when I say this. I'm sort of rethinking my stance on all of this and just realizing that it's very much, you know, old man shakes fists at clouds. Right.
I actually just got my pair of crafts showed up this week.
Producer Dave
00:24:32.490 - 00:24:34.970
Actually. There's a shoe for that too, Colin.
Colin True
00:24:35.850 - 00:24:40.170
It's good traction on wet grass when you're in the front yard stable.
Producer Dave
00:24:40.170 - 00:24:41.850
So you can really get that arm up there.
Colin True
00:24:42.250 - 00:25:23.280
You won't get blow over in a stiff breeze. Yeah, my craft showed up. I'm excited to try them. And I'm just.
And to our point, the point we were talking about earlier with just running shoes becoming sort of just this just dominant player, whether you're talking outdoor or run or athletic or whatever, more categories probably make sense. Honestly, if you want to have a gravel section makes a lot of sense. Now we have treadmill shoes. Makes sense.
And it's a think about where a lot of people are buying these shoes. If it's a dicks.
And now Dick's Sports Foot Locker, that deal has closed to kind of make it simpler for the consumer to walk in and say, what are you shopping for? Here's the column of shoes. Shop in this column of shoes makes it a lot easier and simpler. So I'm kind of on board with gravel now.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:23.680 - 00:25:53.980
So what I would love to see and maybe have a listener out here who can help is what did the footwear wall look like in REI 10 years ago? Oh, and then what does it look like today? Okay, A, is the wall bigger? I think it probably is. But B, how are the sections? Because.
Because it used to obviously mainly be hike and kind of casual. Right. So now we've got run. Run I think is probably the same size, maybe even bigger than hike in some cases.
So yeah, I would just love to know how has it changed over the last 10 years?
Producer Dave
00:25:54.700 - 00:26:02.700
Dude, the brown is a little tanner, the navy is a Little lighter blue. There's some gray and some gravel and.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:02.780 - 00:26:05.100
Some black tones and thicker midsoles.
Producer Dave
00:26:05.260 - 00:26:09.390
Well, a darker green as well. No, no, it's really changed.
Colin True
00:26:09.390 - 00:26:10.750
I do like that, though. Somebody, maybe.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:10.750 - 00:26:12.630
I think it's changed a lot. Yeah.
Colin True
00:26:13.270 - 00:26:28.790
I mean, it doesn't have to be rei, but anybody who's worked at a shop for a while who can recall the old footwear walls and maybe take a shot and take a photo of the current footwear walls and kind of myrockflightmail.com, send us the differences. I'd be very curious of that. All right, are we ready for the lightning round?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:28.950 - 00:26:29.990
Let's go. Ready?
Chris DeMakes
00:26:31.830 - 00:26:33.110
Lightning round.
Colin True
00:26:35.700 - 00:27:05.430
Okay, first up, glamping or camping in yardstones and tree houses is now the preferred way to camp, according to 29% of respondents in the RMS 2025 State of Outdoor Hospitality Report.
According to an article published in sgb, RMS CEO Adam Seskis says that when camping, quote, comfort and convenience are no longer just nice to haves, they're now expected.
So, Dave, is it surprising to you that it took this long for people to realize that it's, you know, that sleeping on the ground isn't all that comfortable?
Producer Dave
00:27:06.710 - 00:27:15.830
Right. I almost read this as, you know, hotels more popular than sleeping on ground. Right. Like, yeah, I get that.
Colin True
00:27:15.830 - 00:27:18.310
But also we pulled our grandparents and.
Producer Dave
00:27:18.390 - 00:27:24.310
Right. But this is one of those SUS surveys, I have to say. Right. This doesn't feel right.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:25.110 - 00:27:38.700
Yeah, yeah, this is right. 550 people surveyed by RMS North America, a cloud based reservation and property management system designed for the outdoor hospitality industry.
Interesting.
Colin True
00:27:38.700 - 00:27:42.780
Yeah. Guys, I don't know. I don't think people like camping all that much. We asked these few to.
Producer Dave
00:27:42.780 - 00:27:45.100
Right, that's right.
Colin True
00:27:45.420 - 00:28:03.260
Next up, according to athletech.com the fitness wearables market is set to hit $190 billion by 2032. So, Owen, outside of GPS devices and apps, tech is largely absent from a lot of what we see or talk about in the industry or at outdoor retail.
Is this an oversight or at least an opportunity?
Eoin Comerford
00:28:03.420 - 00:28:35.220
Not really. The problem with tech is, first of all, the margins suck. Right? You're looking at like 20% margins for like a Garmin GPS watch or a GoPro or whatever.
So, you know, most retailers, you know, need at least 40 points to make stuff work. So that's the first issue.
The second thing is, if you go ahead and buy a bunch of this stuff and you don't sell it in that, that first season, it's basically obsolete. And so now you're actually taking A mark down below your cost. It's just not a great category for outdoor. It just isn't.
Colin True
00:28:35.300 - 00:28:56.820
Last lightning round story according to a press release last week. Here we go, guys.
Combat flip flops who say that their flip flops are quote are engineered with a fully contoured zero drop sole for maximum grip support and all day comfort and are designed to handle whatever comes next. Is partnering with Spartan, the quote world's leading sports and extreme wellness brand.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:57.060 - 00:28:58.020
Extreme Wellness.
Colin True
00:28:58.740 - 00:29:06.500
Is this press release an achievement of peak hyperbole in the outdoor and active space? I mean, do you want combat flip flops to help with your extreme wellness?
Producer Dave
00:29:08.660 - 00:29:43.480
All right, I'll go. Yes, I do. Call it, man.
I have to say, when I first heard this story, I did kind of get on myself for my own failure of imagination to even think that this was possible. Combat flip flops, like I said, right? Big time. Like, how did I not see that come? And then secondly, I'm like, man, could you up armor these things?
Do they become hiking boots if you push the button? Do they come with sidewinders to kind of clear the trail for you up ahead?
Colin True
00:29:43.720 - 00:29:46.280
They're designed to handle whatever comes next.
Producer Dave
00:29:46.280 - 00:29:53.260
There's a lot of pos. Are they drones? Do they fly to you? I'm thinking there's some cool stuff that we could have here.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:53.810 - 00:30:01.770
Well, I think if you're going to call it a combat flip flop, it has to be usable as a weapon of some kind and not just for like slapping somebody across the face. Like what I think.
Producer Dave
00:30:01.770 - 00:30:08.770
Okay, that's a dueling flip flop. That's a wholly different thing. That's right. I do declare that you are in my way.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:09.410 - 00:30:17.410
There's a button. Okay, I got it for you. There's a button. You press and little blades pop out each end. And then you throw it Frisbee style.
Producer Dave
00:30:18.290 - 00:30:22.960
And then like I was gonna say, I think that was in a Bond movie. No doubt.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:23.670 - 00:30:24.230
Which is the.
Producer Dave
00:30:24.310 - 00:30:26.470
Yeah, the Secret Service version of that.
Colin True
00:30:26.550 - 00:30:30.710
It would be hilarious if it's like designed to handle whatever comes next. As long as you're at the beach.
Producer Dave
00:30:31.750 - 00:30:32.550
That's right.
Colin True
00:30:32.870 - 00:31:19.730
All right, let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. Then we'll be back with another round of headlines. All right, guys, just in time for fall, we're happy to introduce a new sponsor to the Rock Fight.
Fjall Raven. And guys, I heard from the folks at Fjallraven, it turns out it's actually not a joke. You seriously cannot fial without Fjallraven. It's a real thing.
Fall doesn't get nearly enough credit for hiking, guys. Everyone thinks it's summer's the season, but for hikers, autumn, it's the real deal. Cooler days, quieter trails, more space and falls.
Exactly what fialraven's KEB collection is built for. Born from trekking in northern Sweden, their jackets, fleeces and trousers let you focus on nature. All specifically designed to make cold optional.
And on our production call this week, Owen actually was outside in a jacket, so he would probably. You made cold optional, maybe without Fjallraven at that moment?
Eoin Comerford
00:31:19.730 - 00:31:20.290
Absolutely.
Chris DeMakes
00:31:21.090 - 00:31:21.650
Shh.
Producer Dave
00:31:21.650 - 00:31:22.530
Don't say that.
Colin True
00:31:23.170 - 00:31:33.010
So check out the whole keb collection by clicking the link in the show notes or search for it when you head to fjallraven.com where your fall begins, your Fjall begins. Fjall.
Producer Dave
00:31:33.010 - 00:31:35.130
Excuse me, I've got a little problem with the pronunciation.
Colin True
00:31:35.130 - 00:31:35.570
I do.
Producer Dave
00:31:35.890 - 00:31:39.570
I think a little. Add some herring to your diet. I think that'll help with your pronunciation.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:39.570 - 00:31:48.430
Did you have to take like. For this particular client, did you have to take special Fjallraven pronunciation classes?
Producer Dave
00:31:48.670 - 00:31:54.030
He did. He did. They were at the local ikea. They had them in one of the showrooms.
Colin True
00:31:54.750 - 00:31:58.110
I had to get a Swiss flag tattoo. I don't wanna show it to you guys right now, but I got it.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:58.110 - 00:31:58.590
Got it.
Colin True
00:32:00.270 - 00:32:14.910
All right, guys. Last week we learned that mosquitoes kill more humans every year than any other animal.
And like the Dalai Lama once said, if you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito. Do you think when you're glamping that they take the mosquitoes out? Do they personally remove every single one?
Eoin Comerford
00:32:14.910 - 00:32:28.530
They do, actually, though I can vouch for this, the worst night's sleep I've ever had was a hotel room in Addis Ababa and there was this mother mosquito that just would not. Oh, my. It was the worst. The worst.
Colin True
00:32:28.530 - 00:32:30.970
There was one. There was only. Maybe there was many of them. You couldn't tell.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:31.050 - 00:32:34.010
No, no, it was just one mosquito. And.
Colin True
00:32:34.010 - 00:33:06.420
Yeah, well, I doubt that Dalai Lama was sleeping in an Amp Light long sleeve shirt and.
Oh, and you definitely weren't sleeping in an amp Light long sleeve shirt from Royal Robbins, because the Amp Light long sleeve, like everything else in Royal's MPT collection. MPT guys, stands for mosquito protection technology, which relies on protection through construction.
It's the chemical free solution to mosquito free days. And in Owens hotel room or in the outdoors, to shop the entire MPT collection from Royal Robbins.
And to stay bite free in these waning days of summer. Head to royalrobbins.com now.
Producer Dave
00:33:06.420 - 00:33:11.580
If they could just make a spider free shirt that would be fantastic. We're in spider season here.
Colin True
00:33:11.580 - 00:33:13.580
Oh, Northwest spider season is magical.
Producer Dave
00:33:13.580 - 00:33:15.700
Yeah, magical.
Colin True
00:33:15.780 - 00:33:20.020
I love when you go out and see all the spiders. They're just hanging out, just trying to eat the. They're trying to eat the mosquitoes.
Producer Dave
00:33:20.100 - 00:33:21.540
It's that dark magic.
Colin True
00:33:21.620 - 00:33:44.730
Today's episode of the Rock Fights presented by Lem Shoes. As summer as the summer season wraps up, now's a great time to get ready for fall with Lem's.
From easygoing slip ons and refined leather lace ups to tough trail ready boots, Lem's offers footwear for every occasion and their fit is unmatched. If you've never experienced the fit of a pair of Lemz, I just feel sorry for you.
I mean, actually Owen, have you tried to you tried out your lems a little bit more since you, since you got them?
Eoin Comerford
00:33:44.970 - 00:33:54.490
I haven't because actually the weather has not really been Lem's weather. So I'm looking forward to a Lem's fall or Lem's Fjall. If we're going to mix sponsors, we're.
Colin True
00:33:54.490 - 00:33:55.370
Going to cross the streams.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:55.850 - 00:34:01.930
We're crossing the streams, yes. So no, I'm looking forward to getting them out and about.
Colin True
00:34:02.650 - 00:36:05.350
Lems are built with comfort, durability and versatility at the core. And their collection is ready to take you to wherever the season leads. And with fresh, exciting styles just around the corner, be sure to stay tuned.
But in the meantime, head to lemshoes.com right now to get your feet into the best fitting shoe you've ever worn. Don't let our big time production value and celebrity names fool you.
Looking at you, producer Dave but Rock Fight LLC is a small business and growing brand. And even though we have our own consigliere, he advises on other matters.
We've got to consult a lawyer every now and then on the legal structures that every business needs. But for a small business like ours, the cost to hire general counsel or pay a retainer is a non starter. So what's an outdoorsy founder to do?
I mean, come on, we're not flashing that outside money. Enter Conatus Council. They can help your business with fractional general counsel and legal services.
From strategy consulting to advocacy and government affairs to real world implementation for outdoor recreation industry businesses, Forest over at Conatus Council has helped Rock Fight navigate some of these areas. And let me tell you, knowing someone has your back means you can Focus on running your business.
I mean, he had at least three edits to this read to quote unquote, protect us from ourselves. I mean, that's what I'm talking about. Forest cares just as much about the outdoors and the outdoor industry as our listeners. So got questions?
Conatuscouncil.com to get in touch with Forest. The first six hours are free. Wait, what? What? I can't say that. Oh, initial consultations are free. Okay, fine.
Looking ahead, guys, to the holiday season. SGB this past week covered three looks at what we can expect as we head into the biggest shopping time of the year.
Surveys From Bay and Company, Deloitte and PwC all seem to indicate that the holiday shopping season is going to be up when compared to last year or looking at pre pandemic levels, but definitely lower than what was expected heading into 2025. Probably not that surprising given all the tariff chaos we've been talking about throughout the year.
But definitely not welcome news either, you know. So Owen, based on these reports, what you're hearing, how do you see Q4 playing out for outdoor retail?
Eoin Comerford
00:36:05.510 - 00:36:49.690
Actually, for the PwC, one, that was a survey, it's their holiday outlook survey, but it indicates an average decline of 5% year over year. So now what I would say with that is surveys are what people tell you they're not, they're going to do not what they actually do.
So I think most of the other experts would say, yeah, people, you know, obviously consumer confidence is not great right now, so people are giving you a not so great result. But even so, it's not a great indication. And we actually just, we're recording this on Friday.
The University of Michigan Consumer Confidence Index came out and it was down even more in September. So it was at 55.7 versus 70.1 last year in September.
Colin True
00:36:49.770 - 00:36:52.570
And we talked about that, the numbers a month ago. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:54.910 - 00:37:34.330
So now it's even worse. And so that's a really big drop year over year.
So you think about where we were last September and how we were feeling about Q4, the consumer is in a much, much worse shape a year later. So then, I mean, the outdoor industry itself has been in a bit of a funk kind of regardless.
And so with all those things together, it doesn't seem to be shaping up like it's going to be a great year. Hopefully if it's down, it's only down in the low single digits, but it's not looking great.
The one thing I would say though is there are some potential glimmers where it actually could come together to be not too bad.
Colin True
00:37:34.490 - 00:37:35.050
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:35.290 - 00:37:51.250
The first thing I would say is the folks that are most impacted by the whole tariff situation and the cost of living issues are lower income households and younger people, neither of whom are big buyers in the outdoor industry. Okay. So that's the first thing I would say.
Colin True
00:37:51.250 - 00:37:55.290
Are you saying the thing that we typically complain about with the outdoor industry is working in our favor right now?
Eoin Comerford
00:37:55.290 - 00:38:33.420
It's working in our favor finally. Yeah.
The second thing is what we talked about ad nauseam on this podcast is the ongoing strength of athletic footwear, which the outdoor industry has basically co opted as its own, which is great. The third thing is early forecasts are actually pointing to a colder, wetter or more snow forecast for the.
At least for the northern part of the country. It's actually going to be hot and dry in the south, they're saying, but, you know, cold and snowy in the north, which means outerwear. Okay.
And so there could be a bit of a pent up demand there for outerwear. So that might be a positive.
Colin True
00:38:33.900 - 00:38:39.180
So this is where we're at. Things are so bleak that now we're looking to the Farmer's Almanac to look.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:39.180 - 00:38:48.200
For signs of optimism. Not the farm. No, this is science. We didn't look to the Farmer's Almanac, but yeah. Hey, any glimmer, please?
Colin True
00:38:48.200 - 00:38:56.040
Cold and snow this winter would just be lovely. A nice even coating from coast to coast. Let every market revel in that white goodness out there. Yes.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:56.040 - 00:39:08.040
Yeah. So it could all be okay. But I think at a macro level, I think the equipment business really, though, is probably going to be in a tougher spot.
But outerwear and footwear could be high points.
Producer Dave
00:39:08.760 - 00:39:18.940
You know, the pessimist in me says 5% would probably be dodging a bullet. It in terms of just the way it feels out there right now. But let's. Let's hope not.
Colin True
00:39:19.180 - 00:40:00.700
All right, guys, well, next thing, kind of last thing today, we've talked a lot about tariffs in the show as perhaps the biggest threat, like we just did to the outdoor industry that we've seen in some time.
But this past week, A piece on theguardian.com highlights a different type of fallout that could be occurring, which is a potential drop in enthusiasm for American fashion brands and in markets outside of the US in the piece, which was written by Lauren Cochran, the unpopular global policies of the Trump administration don't seem to be impacting brands like Netflix or Apple.
But when it comes to brands that present themselves as decidedly American, Levi's is highlighted in the article, there is a backlash coming, if not already happening. So, Owen, reading through this article, do you think that there are outdoor brands that are similarly at risk to this kind of backlash?
Eoin Comerford
00:40:01.100 - 00:41:03.910
I don't think so, because outside of yeti, most of the brands don't really, you know, wave the flag or, you know, you don't really chant usa, USA outside of, outside of the country here. And in fact, I would say a lot of brands have positioned themselves as sort of the.
On the opposite side of the spectrum to the current administration. Some by just leaning into sustainability or pretending to, whereas others have been more active and vocal.
Like Patagonia, as an example, is very vocal about their stance versus the current administration. North Face was more active, I would say, in the first term. They had their walls are for climbing campaign, which I thought was great.
They've been a lot quieter this time around, as have a lot of brands. In fairness, I don't want to just pick on North Face, but yeah, I don't think so.
I think a lot of these brands are really viewed as more global at this point.
Colin True
00:41:04.330 - 00:41:09.850
Do you think people think of that though? Or is it more of a knee jerk thing like, that's an American brand. I know that they are, so screw those guys.
Producer Dave
00:41:09.850 - 00:42:07.060
You know, I'm gonna take the opposite to that. Where they do think that they have options where maybe in some of these other, like Netflix or Apple, it's not quite as easy to replace that.
But when we're talking apparel and footwear, there's so many great options and they are marketing that, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say there's so much to boycotts, but you totally have movements on all the social media platforms about who is and who isn't, you know, European. You've got Maple Scan up in Canada, you know, talking about Canadian brands. So I think it's just more of guilt by association from that.
Like, to your point, a lot of these brands identify with a lot of the same value sets that these customers have. But these Europeans or Canadians, they're kind of. How else can they register their discontent?
How can they show that they don't approve but to take it out commercially, Right, in one way. And I think that's just the unfortunate reality of, of the place that we've been putting.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:07.860 - 00:42:18.740
If I understand what you're saying, Dave, it's not necessarily a protest against a North American brand in terms of the purchase. It's more of a support for Europe and European brands.
Producer Dave
00:42:18.980 - 00:42:25.940
They're together. I think they're a little bit Together. And it's easier to do that when you have almost a like replacement sitting right there.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:26.020 - 00:42:26.820
Oh, sure, right.
Producer Dave
00:42:26.820 - 00:43:00.970
Do you know what I mean? And so the American brand doesn't need to be out. Like you said, Kindaletti being pro, we're made in USA type of thing.
It's just that word gets out now because of social media, people are making an issue of knowing who's where or who's from where. And like I said, I think outdoor brands are probably the least suspect in terms of supporting this type of these moves. But they're just.
How else does a young European outdoor customer register their opposition to what's going on? And that's just an easy way to do that.
Colin True
00:43:01.360 - 00:43:05.920
Just like any Canada's gonna mean they're definitely looking to not buy anything from the us.
Producer Dave
00:43:06.240 - 00:43:22.800
Well, that's a big broader. That's a case where it's an entire national kind of credo now, right, that they turn that into affecting all sectors.
But if you're in Scandinavia or something, you've got some great options that you would already be looking at. So why would you? Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you?
Eoin Comerford
00:43:23.360 - 00:43:58.960
What I would say though is if you actually look at the numbers that are being reported by the public companies right now, almost everyone is struggling in the US market and doing much better in the rest of the world. So they're flat to down quite a bit in the US market, whereas the rest of the world, they're up.
And I think that is more a testament to the impact of tariffs and other things on the US market than it is to overall consumer love or hate about the usa. But yeah, those international markets are what's propping us up right now.
Producer Dave
00:43:59.030 - 00:44:00.030
Yeah, interesting.
Colin True
00:44:00.030 - 00:44:21.470
We probably have to change how we're covering this stuff on the show because it feels like now a lot of stuff we said is it's slowly coming to fruition. It's going to be like this is what is going to continue to happen, whether it's choice or the terrorists themselves or whatever it is.
And now it's going to be like, what are we looking for wins? Or we're just waiting for the, you know, the cracks to form so that something actually changes.
Because like, yep, this is what's happening now is the way it said though.
Producer Dave
00:44:21.470 - 00:44:30.550
It really is two distinct actions. There's the tariff aspect which has the economic and supply chain piece to this and it's going to affect places differently.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:30.630 - 00:44:30.860
But.
Producer Dave
00:44:30.930 - 00:44:37.090
But then there is the. Just the anti Americanism based on our foreign policy choices.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:37.410 - 00:44:37.730
Right.
Producer Dave
00:44:37.730 - 00:44:42.210
That's also becoming more and more in the faces of people that maybe it didn't before.
Chris DeMakes
00:44:44.690 - 00:44:46.850
It's time for a party shot.
Colin True
00:44:48.770 - 00:45:03.150
All right, it's time for the parting shot. And for this week, I think, I think producer Dave's got a couple updates on our pals over at Columbia.
After the brief and a few other things we've been talking about with their engineer for whatever campaign, there were some developments going on over there. Dave, what's creatively happening over with. Hold on.
Producer Dave
00:45:03.150 - 00:45:10.030
Is this a parting shot or is this a whole segment? I thought a parting shot was just like, all right, we're on our way out. What do you got?
Colin True
00:45:10.350 - 00:45:10.910
Exit.
Producer Dave
00:45:10.910 - 00:45:22.110
That's what I'm doing. But you said you really set it up as like this is going to be some kind of thought out reporting structure. And I guarantee you it's not right.
It's definitely a party shot.
Colin True
00:45:22.750 - 00:45:25.390
All right. I was trying to give you a little meet up.
Producer Dave
00:45:27.870 - 00:47:03.500
We all saw it and kids were Columbia with their first off. This is the most we've talked about Columbia in the years that we've been doing this. And here marketing works one hit after another.
But I have to say, if you're going to follow up the made for whatever and you're following it up with an announcement that Robert Irwin, son of Steve Irwin, carrying on that legacy is going to be a global ambassador for you. And just the way they're positioning it and I think the kind of the power of that platform, it's fantastic.
What a perfect representation for their brand as just, well, as the category. I just, I think it's a, it's a great expression of kind of taking us to that level in, in a way that's going to resonate with people.
So I think that is, I think I called that. That's 10 out of 10 right there. That's a perfect execution of this.
And then, you know, they've of course made it on all the socials and you go to their website and if you go to their website, you're also in for a treat because it has also been completely overhauled. Right. And the website is that. Okay, we asked what's next after this video campaign and we see the paid pieces. Okay, it's just an ad campaign.
Well, the website really looks like they're now taking that second step in terms of modernization of the brand. It's way more contemporary.
Of course it has elements of the visual campaign in it, but man, even the way you take their current product line and present it in this new way, it feels Fresher. The whole thing feels fresher. So I think in terms of. This is a next step.
It's a pretty powerful one two in to kind of moving the bar of how people perceive the brand.
Colin True
00:47:04.700 - 00:47:07.980
All right. And Matt Sutton, that's the last time we talk about this without you paying this.
Producer Dave
00:47:08.140 - 00:47:08.780
That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:09.500 - 00:47:10.060
That's right.
Colin True
00:47:10.060 - 00:47:12.100
That's it. You've reached your limit.
Producer Dave
00:47:12.100 - 00:47:12.700
Come on.
Colin True
00:47:12.700 - 00:47:13.580
Of freebies.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:16.460 - 00:47:53.160
What I like is that obviously they're rolling out sort of the vibe of the engineer for whatever, into just the way that they're even. Just the copy on the website. There's a section here about joining their loyalty. It says, not a member. Let's fix that.
You know, so it's much more like direct and that sort of thing. Even like, for. They're talking about their trail running shoes.
Shoes that give the trail blisters, you know, so it's taken that little bit edgy, tougher wording and working it into the whole copy of the site, which I think is great, which is why.
Colin True
00:47:53.160 - 00:48:10.400
I think you hear the enthusiasm in Dave's voice as a creative director. If you go back, there's an episode we did a few months ago where Shantae, Dave and I kind of broke down some brand videos.
And some of the things I think we talked about in that episode was how a lot of times brands will just make a brand video and then they put it on YouTube, you know, or their website for a month, and then it just lives there.
Producer Dave
00:48:10.480 - 00:48:10.840
Yeah.
Colin True
00:48:10.840 - 00:48:24.960
And so which easily Columbia could have had a 400 good press. Right. With this cool video they made. And then you still like it seems like. And Matt told us this when he was on the show. They're taking the.
This is a. This is a rebrand now, not just a campaign.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:25.440 - 00:48:25.920
Oh.
Producer Dave
00:48:25.920 - 00:48:41.100
Some of the print work, which is amazing that we still do print work out there. It's pretty cool. Cool. But one of the headlines is this cl. This jacket is a climate denier. Right. You know, or Jack Frost ain't got jack. You know, and.
Fantastic, right? Fantastic.
Colin True
00:48:41.340 - 00:49:00.850
And to prove that the discourse is alive and well, especially on LinkedIn, Mammut has a new campaign out that is now like, you know, gatekeeping, you know, keeping their. Their apparel. You can't go use it in the city now. They're gonna make it. They're gonna take it away from you. And it's. And it's pissing.
That's pissing people off. So. So you can't win if you're an outdoor brand in 2020.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:01.810 - 00:49:07.410
No, you can't yeah, that's right. Because they had that whole we are not streetwear brand right thing. Yeah.
Colin True
00:49:07.410 - 00:49:22.050
And their whole video is like, there's like a task force that's going out and taking the stuff that people are just like hanging out at a coffee shop, taking their jacket off and then like mailing it back to the mountains kind of thing. And, and some people were upset about that. So it's kind of just, it's pretty fun.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:22.050 - 00:49:36.590
I think that, I think that's great because, you know, we, we, we, we talk about the whole, you know, whatever it is, mountain to bar aspect of the whole thing, which really is the way that we're going. But it's great to take the opposite of that approach, I think is fun.
Colin True
00:49:37.470 - 00:49:40.830
Even though 90% of what they're selling is guaranteed of being worn in a.
Producer Dave
00:49:40.830 - 00:49:48.430
City somewhere, 100% they're just going to Bar Mountain. I think that's just turning it around.
Colin True
00:49:48.430 - 00:49:52.790
See, that would have been a good end to that game if the mountain they were sending to was just a bar somewhere.
Producer Dave
00:49:52.790 - 00:49:53.390
Bar Mountain.
Colin True
00:49:53.630 - 00:49:54.350
Yeah. Bar Mountain.
Producer Dave
00:49:54.350 - 00:49:54.590
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:54.590 - 00:49:54.750
Right.
Producer Dave
00:49:54.750 - 00:49:55.470
Bar Mountain.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:55.470 - 00:49:56.240
That's right. Right.
Colin True
00:49:57.120 - 00:50:29.940
All right, everybody, that's the show for today. We want your emails. Please send them to myrockfightmail.com we need to get more emails than gear.
I'm on both shows so I really win in both kind of these instances. But gear Abbey or versus the Rock Fight email fight.
It's on myrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LLC in today's episode produced by producer Dave Art direction Provided by Sarah Gensert 4 For Owen Comerford, I'm Colin True. Thank you for listening. And back again to take us out's Krista Meigs with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:50:29.940 - 00:51:31.240
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock Fight.
Welcome to the Rock fight Where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
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