Conservation: It's The Most American Thing
- colin7931
- Apr 1
- 38 min read
Today Doug opens the container with journalist Rachelle Schrute.
Doug starts the episode by recounting his personal journey and experiences in Montana, a state rich in both natural beauty and a communal spirit. A place that for Doug was not only about the incredible landscape but also the warmth and generosity of the locals who helped him when he was just getting his life started.
Doug is then joined by conservationist, hunter, angler, and Montanan, Rachelle Schrute.
Rachelle and Doug discuss the imperative of conservation, with Rachelle articulating her perspective as both a hunter and conservationist. She emphasizes the need for a collective commitment to protect public lands, advocating for unity among individuals with differing political beliefs.
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Episode Transcript:
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:00:00.160 - 00:07:43.892
Today's episode of Open Container is presented by Oboz.
Many of you already know Oboz, that plucky little brand from Bozeman that stood up in 2007 in a crowded footwear space and said, there's room for me too. An upstart outlier with a weird name, roomy toe box and well built offerings for committed hikers.
It's a combination that has attracted a loyal following for 20 years and we're excited to partner with Oboz because they are committed to shining a light on the core activity to all our outdoor pursuits. Hiking. You know, hiking. The thing we all do but no one is talking about. We are unified by hiking.
Oboz loves hiking and that's something I can get down with. Over the coming months, we'll be opening the Container and getting on the trail with our friends from Bozeman. Oboz love hiking.
Welcome to Open Container. I'm Doug Schnitzbahn. I'm a journalist, writer and overall lover of the outdoors.
I fought wildfires, reported on national politics, published magazines, and I've even eaten sacred dirt.
On this podcast we're going to have an open conversation about culture, conservation, policy, business issues that matter the most to the outdoor community. Let's get some this is an ode to one of my favorite places, a place often called the Last Best Place.
Montana is a state that has a unique vibe, different from surrounding spots in the West. It's got cowboy culture, but it's not Wyoming. It's not as conservative politically as Idaho. It's not as overrun as Colorado.
There's a sort of common sense, wisdom and closeness to the land that defines Montanans, that makes the Treasure State unique. Beyond the big green valleys and quiet snow covered peaks.
I first moved to Montana in 1993 to the town of Dillon, which at the time was the definition of a cow town, though it also had a Patagonia outlet. Dillon had an annual Labor Day rodeo when people would ride their horses into bars. Bars where you'd get your ass kicked.
And at any bar in town, you could play Shake a Day, that uniquely Montana game that could score you a free beer. I fell in love with the mountains.
Torrey Peak, the Italian Peaks, Mount Tweedy and the quiet places I discovered living there in a trailer 20 miles outside of town. Up in the east. Pioneers I would run on dirt roads after work and a great horned owl would fly along with me.
I foraged puffballs and put them in my pasta. I learned to identify the wildflowers growing near Birch Creek, especially the hemlock, so beautiful yet one of the most deadly plants out there.
But I truly loved the people I met there.
I didn't have much money at the time, and I'd gone from bartending in downtown Boston and making tons of cash to earning close to nothing as a trail builder. But the people I met were all there to support me. Someone gave me antelope sausage they had in the freezer that I could have for breakfast.
Someone else gave me elk steaks. People gave me rides into town.
Since I didn't even have a car at the time, I was offered roofing work in the Bitterroot Valley when I was low on cash, Anywhere I turned, I found help. It was a very different life than the one I'd been trying to escape. I came to an interesting conclusion about money, too. It's a lot like water.
It flows when you have it, and when you don't, you get by like I did, living in that trailer with strangers giving me meat from hunting. One day, there was a knock at my trailer door. When I opened it, a big dude stood in front of me with bloody hands and a hu. Smile on his face.
I didn't know what was happening. Was he going to talk to me? Kill me? Was he crazy? No.
It turned out that it was early in the season and he had shot an elk about a quarter mile away with a recurve bow at short distance. He needed to haul it out to his truck and wanted to know if I could help him. Of course I did, because this was how things work here.
We walked through the woods and talked, and he told me of all the hours he had spent planning and practicing, hoping for this moment when he could bring the art of learning to shoot a bow together in a sacred act. I'm not a hunter. I don't have a whole lot of desire to be one. But I had enormous respect for this man and his experience in the wild.
Back to Dylan's annual Labor Day rodeo. The whole town felt like something out of a Hollywood movie, with horses on the street and bronc riders starting fights in the bars.
I'm not sure if it's like that anymore. I haven't been back in a long time. The world seems changed and too close now, with so much connection and social media and cell phones.
But there is a certain thrill to being in the town when it was simply centered on the community. The rodeo, hunting. That idea of community is truly so central to so many towns in the west, and it seems to be slipping away now.
I think it's important to respect the ideas and Traditions of people who lived in Western towns for a long time. That's something I've learned by being there, listening to them, and sometimes helping them out.
I think it's a really important part of how we can come together to move forward with our public lands and think about spaces under assault. It's important to remember that the people who live in these places love these lands and always have.
It's also important to show them the best side of outdoor recreation.
Beyond all that, it's important for all of us to understand that Native people have been here a long time before the United States of America and that their voice needs to be back on the table when it comes to talking about the future of these places. All that is to say, we just need to listen to each other more and work together more. We all want the same thing.
We all want the freedom we've been able to fully inhabit out in wild places.
Whether it's hunting, riding mountain bikes, or participating in rituals connected to generations of indigenous people, it's more important than ever now, since those freedoms are truly in danger. Once public lands are sold, they're gone forever. Our freedom is gone. Fenced off and plastered with no Trespassing signs.
I learned a healthy respect for public lands, for wildlife, and for the freedom of being on them from Montanans who have been there for generations, from Native people, and from people who care about the outdoors. I think it's time that all our voices unite and find better solutions so we can continue to share what matters to us. Today's guest does just that.
Rachelle Schrute is the hunt and fish editor for Geer Junkie. She comes from a long line of Western big game hunters and dry fly fishermen.
She is also heavily involved in Montana's conservation and wildlife management practices, having served in leadership roles within multiple conservation organizations. Rochelle is a wilderness first responder and often spends her summers as a wilderness guide in Yellowstone National Park.
When not gear testing or writing, you can likely find her hunting, hiking, fishing, and cooking wild game with her family. So let's open the container with Rachelle Schrute. Okay.
And I'm very excited to open the container with someone who I believe enjoys opening containers. Rachelle Schrute is a hunter and angler born and raised in Montana, and she is the fish and hunt editor for Gear Junkie Richelle.
I'm really excited to have you here today and talk to you.
Rachelle Schrute
00:07:44.076 - 00:07:46.000
Yeah, definitely looking forward to it.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:07:47.020 - 00:08:02.120
And let's just get right into it.
As a hunter, I think especially why do you think conservation is Something that should be important to everyone, and especially, I think, in these times, no matter their political beliefs or ideology.
Rachelle Schrute
00:08:03.790 - 00:09:21.550
You know, I think when you get down to it, political beliefs and ideology aside, when it comes to conservation efforts, you know, nobody hates wild spaces that I know of. The land and waters don't care who you vote for as long as your voting aligns with protecting those spaces. Right.
So it's like you can't call it a red or a blue policy. You can't. Yeah, it's. It benefits everyone. It's one of those things. It's like it's. This is our planet that we live on and we thrive on.
And whether you're an agricultural person or a skier or a backpacker or a hunter or fisherman, you name it, we all, you know, subside on this land in one way or another, in conservation, regardless of. Of your leanings, genuinely benefits us all. And there's.
It seems like there's this strange dichotomy that it's one side or the other, and you can be a hunter, but you can't be an environmentalist. Yeah. It's just. It's wild, that hard line that it seems like politically we draw between conservationists and the others, and I don't understand it.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:09:21.850 - 00:09:31.010
Exactly. Yeah. And as someone. I mean, you grew up in the midst of it, right? Growing up in the middle of Montana, I think.
Why do you think it's so political politicized? Why do you think this has happened?
Rachelle Schrute
00:09:33.670 - 00:11:03.298
Man, we don't have enough time to dig into why, why it's happened. You know, I think it's the.
You have people who are politically pushing for financial gain, and wild spaces offer more financial gain than they do every other gain when you put it on paper. So I think that's a big. A big line to draw where, you know, you can.
You can sell land and develop land and make a penny, a tangible penny, and that seems to fall on one side of the aisle as a priority more so than the other. However, also on that side of the aisle are the bulk of your outdoorsmen.
And so I don't know how to answer that question because I don't understand it. I don't understand voting against conservation policy or environmental policy.
That boggles my mind that you would vote against environmental protections and then be like, where are the deer? Well, I mean, you can't have it both ways. So I don't know. I don't know the answer to why it's such a political.
Conservation benefits all of us, you know, unless you stay in your High rise. And you don't care to breathe clean air or drink clean water, otherwise it benefits us all. So I don't know.
I don't know how to explain the political divide.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:11:03.394 - 00:11:21.870
Well, I mean, I think you are a good person to ask because, you know, take a step back for a moment really, to talk about your pedigree. You're obviously a dedicated conservationist, but you're also a hardcore and authentic, you know, hunter.
Angler Montanen, tell us a bit about you and kind of your. Who you are.
Rachelle Schrute
00:11:23.050 - 00:13:17.700
I wouldn't say hardcore. Now that I'm comfortably in my 40s, I am less hardcore than I once was.
I love to sit in a tree stand, which I, 10 years ago would have just shamed me for being a sitting hunter. And I love a good spin caster, which my fly rod would just vomit at the idea that I love dunking a worm.
So I wouldn't say that I'm super hardcore, but I did.
I mean, I've just grown up in it and there was like a long stretch of life where I didn't engage in it much just because that's how life, how life happens. But I grew up hunting and fishing and, you know, in a working class family.
I wouldn't even say working class family, in a pretty broke family on a little subsistence farm. So we hunted because we couldn't afford to buy meat. And I just, at this point, I actually have a job where I can't afford to buy meat.
I just don't for both reasons of, I mean, you name it, it's. My hunted meat is a better product. My hunted meat is a healthier product.
It doesn't contribute to, you know, certain food industrial systems that I don't really feel like contributing to. It couldn't be more local or organic. You throw in all the buzzwords you want to throw in.
It just, it just fits with what my lifestyle always was and what I'm hoping, you know, my lifestyle for myself and my children will always be as we just, you know, maintain ourselves off of the land in a way that's ethical and healthy and. Yeah, I don't know that's where. And I fish terribly, which is great for the fish populations. And I do it. That's just therapy.
I don't really do fishing for any other reason other than man. It's a good way to end a bad day.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:13:17.870 - 00:13:27.176
I love that. Yeah. First of all, I have to say I love having someone on the show who admittedly loves dunking a worm. That's awesome.
Rachelle Schrute
00:13:27.368 - 00:13:29.860
Yeah, it's new to me and I dig it.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:13:32.240 - 00:13:59.370
That's great. Well, I think we get into something too. As you said, there's a lot of misconceptions about hunting especially. Right.
And why people would want to do it and who does it. Right. How do you. And now you've got a very public face. Right. So how do you sort of get people away from those misconceptions?
How do you show them a different face of what you love to do, what you've grown up doing?
Rachelle Schrute
00:13:59.830 - 00:17:30.469
You know, I think a lot of the ways that I can relate to people who have these misconceptions is that, you know, on one hand, I agree with them on some things. There are some real crap hunters out there. They're just, they're not good people. Not doing it for good reasons.
You know, you could say that about any population. You're gonna have bad eggs. Unfortunately, in MySpace, we are. Our activities engage in taking a life. And that is a very. Man.
It's just a very harsh thing.
And so when you have bad eggs, they're real bad eggs and they're real vocal eggs and it's real vile to you get this like, spotlight on the really bad eggs. Where the vast majority of hunters, I mean, I, I always like, go back to, like, hunting with vegans. I've hunted with vegans.
And the, the, the closeness of our beliefs and reasons that we do the things we do is, is wild. Um, we're just on different, we're on different sides of the same coin where it's like, I want to do the least amount of harm.
And I feel like hunting is a heck of a lot better.
You know, you're, you're taking one animal off of a natural landscape that lived a pretty natural life and giving it one bad day as opposed to, you know, if you're going to go buy your meat off of a grocery store shelf. It didn't have a, it didn't have one bad day. It had a whole lot of bad days and a lot of hard days. Nothing against that industry.
It sustains our entire country. I just choose not to be part of it as much as I can not be part of it.
And so I think there's a lot of those misconceptions about hunting as being this like, blood thirsty, pound my chest and kill things because I want to kill things. Thing is just because that's, that's the shock, right? That's the shock videos that people see in the shock images.
The rest of us are just kind of out doing it in a way. That's typically pretty quiet. We just sustain and fill our freezer. And it is what it is.
There's this growing, I don't know, movement of people who are ethically hunting and harvesting and processing their own foods that have become more vocal, which is great.
But at the same time, it's hard to out shout the shouters, right, that are rubbing blood on their face and taking unethical shots and making this shock and awe hunt content. That of course, gets spread like wildfire.
There's nothing exciting about me sitting in a tree stand and sending an arrow and then something dying peacefully and then me carrying it home. There's no, like, no one shares that video. Why would anyone share that video? Because it's. It's not the shock and awe thing.
So I think a part of it is. Yeah, I agree with a lot of people that are like, you know, screw these hunters. Yeah, you're right. I.
I'm with you on, on all of those, like, bad eggs. And then I love to, like, have this conversation of like, these especially like your hippie, organic, local market folks. Same, same. We're the same.
My food comes from my backyard. You know, I grow as much as I can, I hunt as much as I can. I buy very little. My stuff isn't getting shipped across the country.
It's like carbon, carbon footprint, minimal. It's funny, the divide of those opposite ends of a spectrum are actually really, really, really minuscule.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:17:31.049 - 00:17:41.326
And it's something, as you said, it's a community thing for you too, right, where you grew up with your family. It's something you were kind of have grow and shared with a lot of people you're close to even, right?
Rachelle Schrute
00:17:41.478 - 00:19:38.270
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what my family would have done. You know, I grew up in western Montana.
You know, man, we couldn't afford beef or chicken that we didn't get from the chicken coop. You know, like, it just wasn't a thing that we could have afforded to do. So it would have changed, you know, our lifestyle would have.
Likely we would have had to move into town and, you know, struggle through jobs and whatever to make ends meet or go on as public assistance, you know, like, that's a whole other thing of, like, this is a way to provide for yourselves and your family without having to go on, you know, welfare for people who are in a tough spot. So, yeah, it's just what I grew up doing.
And then, you know, through adulthood, I did it far less, you know, I got married and had Kids and whatever, we still. I mean, we still hunted for our food.
And then after, it's funny, you know, my community, after sort of an unexpected divorce, it was this whole thing of, oh, no, I can't afford groceries. Like, I'm. Now I'm like this single mom with two kids. And, you know, we didn't eat much.
I mean, we didn't buy much meat even throughout then, but now it suddenly became this responsibility, like, I need to go harvest meat for my family. Holy cow. Like, all the way back to the beginning. Right.
It's back to, like, my parents providing for me and my little brother and my grandparents providing for us. And now it was like, now I'm providing for my kids.
Now I'm, you know, I've taught my kids as much as I can so that they can always provide for their kids. Yeah, it's just a. There's nothing more. I don't know. There's nothing more comforting than being able to provide your basic needs. Right.
As, like, humans. It's like, yeah, I can grow and. And provide my own food for myself and my family without any required monetary.
Well, there's some required monetary means. Right. But with minimal monetary means.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:19:39.370 - 00:19:54.000
And, of course, two hunters, I think, have a, you know, when it comes to the wildlife, too, that hunters have a certain intimacy with the wildlife. Like, you watch them and. And know where they are and know how they move and know where their vulnerability is. Right?
Rachelle Schrute
00:19:54.300 - 00:21:37.790
Yeah. I mean, I've told people I have shot way more animals with a camera than I ever have with a bow or. Or a rifle. Yeah. I spend all year watching them.
I mean, as soon as, like, winter breaks, it's like we're. We go on drives. I take my dogs, we run the dogs, we look for elk. We watch and see when they're dropping antlers.
We're seeing where they're bedding and where they're watering and what fences got broke down over winter because they break down fences looking for bear sign. Right about now, like, they should be up and out, and we watch them straight through. I mean, every season of the year. It's just.
It's weird to say that you, you, you know, your lifestyle is about killing something that you love. I love. I love these animals. Like, I. I spend every waking moment, if I can get up early and watch the deer that are out front, it's a good day.
If I can shut my day down watching, you know, the turkey populations bounce back in this area, it's a good day. I'm, you know, I. I've gotten to a point where.
Well, I think every hunter, if you're really dedicated to it, you know, you know where the animals are moving, you know where they're going to be at certain times of the year, you know where they bed, you know where they feed, you know when they go to water.
You know, sitting at a tree stand and watching wildlife just happen around you as if you were not there should be something that everyone does, you know, whether you're a hunter or not. Get a tree stand, find someone with a tree stand, go sit and like. And. Oh, it's. It's incredible. It's indescribable to be that I don't.
That wrapped up in wild spaces.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:21:38.690 - 00:21:57.672
Yeah, I've had some beautiful days just not hunting, but going along with someone who's hunting just as the. The muscle to pack something out if they got it and really got to have a beautiful time just observing the world.
And one time we didn't even shoot anything, just watched some elk at sunset. And it was one of the most beautiful experiences I've had.
Rachelle Schrute
00:21:57.856 - 00:22:26.282
Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a good day. A bad day in the field if you're surrounded by wildlife and birds. Birds that I've never.
I mean, the birds that I've heard that I would still don't know what they are. I mean, what an experience. Like, what is that? You know, the squirrels that harass you for hours on end. It's still a good.
It's just an amazing day that you are not bombarded with emails and phone calls and you have water and breeze and animals. Yeah, it's just a good day. A bad day in the field is.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:22:26.306 - 00:22:34.910
A good day and it's connecting to something ancient as well. Right. So is it a spiritual experience for you to hunt?
Rachelle Schrute
00:22:35.570 - 00:24:07.200
You know, I am. I've battled with that. I am not a religious person. And coming from a place of looking for spirituality, right. Where.
What is it that makes me feel connected to something greater. Right.
There is nothing that compares to heading out before dawn and you are in this wild space that, you know, your species has sort of evolved up into to survive in. And then watching the sun come up and watching life start to like, creep out of the crevices of this planet. We live on that.
If that isn't spiritual, you don't have a pulse. Like, if you can go do that thing and be like, wow, I. I feel it's in. It's indescribable.
Regardless of what you subscribe to spiritually or religiously, that is. It's a spiritual experience.
And for hunters that don't feel that you're doing it wrong, like I just want to be like if you don't, if you don't slow down and take a deep breath and breathe in the sage and appreciate the cold chill of the morning, there's nothing more spiritual than that. I've never experienced anything more spiritual than my time in the field by myself, being completely immersed and connected to everything around me.
It's incredible.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:24:08.420 - 00:24:22.400
And do you think this is part of why hunters and anglers, the best of them, are such good conservationists or so involved in saving land, saving habitat, saving wildlife?
Rachelle Schrute
00:24:23.380 - 00:25:23.340
Yeah. We have a lot to lose. And so it's one of those things where saving wildlife and saving land and preserving these wild places that we love. Yes.
It affects all of us. It just affects us more. Yeah. That is my church. That is my therapist office. That is my gym.
That is my beers after work are typically just waters with my dogs after work. That is my everything. And so losing that, you know, not to be cliche, that's my grocery store. You know, it's my. Those spaces are our everything.
And so I think that's what pushes the best conservationists who happen to be hunters and anglers to really go all out. Everyone has a lot to lose. We just have more because it's where we've built our entire existence.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:25:24.480 - 00:25:30.528
Who are some of your conservation heroes? Who are some people really you want to follow in their footsteps or.
Rachelle Schrute
00:25:30.624 - 00:27:26.890
I've learned from even man, that's a heavy question. I, I don't know that I have. I don't know that I can like single out conservation heroes. I think I look at like our trail crews. Right.
I look at the 23 year old kid that is out there cutting logs so I don't have to, so we can get a horse through there or wildland firefighters that are doing their best to keep this place running. I have way more respect for a little federal forest service worker who decided to make next to no money to preserve a place that's a hero unsung.
I will never know their name. I will always be grateful for them.
You know, from cleaning up fishing access sites to you name it, I there sure there are like big names you can idolize that are making vocal changes.
I'm way more prone to be stoked about a 19 year old kid that drives his tail to the capitol to testify or to, to to be at a public lands rally or those are the heroes because they will do the most good for the rest of their Lives like those. Like, I look at my kids, and I just want to be like, this is the time. You know, you're in your early adulthood.
This is your time to, like, set yourself as, like, a genuine conservation hero. Just go to the little stuff, pull fence, you know, like, put up straight wire for migration corridors. You know, those.
Those are the people making the biggest impact. And there is no. There's no thank you. There's no paycheck. There's no glory. There's no. Nothing. That's a hero to me.
They're more heroes than I'll ever even be able to touch. I don't have enough time left to do the good that they do.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:27:27.350 - 00:27:34.926
I love hearing that because I spent my 20s in Montana, building trails, fighting fires, cleaning campsites, doing all that dirty work.
Rachelle Schrute
00:27:34.998 - 00:27:37.982
And, man. Well, thank you, sir. Thank you.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:27:38.086 - 00:27:38.686
I don't know.
Rachelle Schrute
00:27:38.758 - 00:27:42.846
I did not do those things, so I owe you a debt of gratitude.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:27:42.958 - 00:28:06.920
It was definitely the best job I've ever had in my life. It's a good way to live, for sure. In such a beautiful place. That's really funny, but that makes me think, too, that.
I mean, are you worried then to see if those are your heroes?
How bad is it now that so many of those people are getting laid off, that we don't have people to maintain these trails, that no one's doing that work now? Right.
Rachelle Schrute
00:28:07.940 - 00:29:54.380
Without gagging on air? Because I have. I don't know what's happening. That's the foundation. I mean, the foundation of what makes. Not just Montana. Montana got hit hard.
I mean, our trail crews, Mike, they are saints that walk among us. They work harder than anyone I know.
But in the greater scheme of this country, like, the wild places of this country is what makes, you know, it's what makes this country great. It's. It's what. Yeah, it's.
The most American thing is, like, wild places and crazy peaks and, like, vast forests and these, like, incredible grasslands, like, these wild spaces are the most American thing. And so the current political happenings of laying off is all I can say. It's heartbreaking.
I can only hope that there's some sort of course correction and we get back to a place of being able to understand that these are vital, necessary people.
And I think we're moving back towards there as things start to dismantle and national parks don't have toilet paper and, you know, things are shutting down, and hopefully there's course correction, but. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I've offered to have any of them come right for me because just write for me.
I can't pay you much because the writing world is broke as a joke. But man, those are the most vital, educated, informed conservationists out there.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:29:55.320 - 00:30:18.750
And it seems like if we do want, you know, current administrators, administration to listen, it won't need to come from us. Right. It'll need to come from people who are more traditionally conservative. Right. Who are going to have to say like, hey, I need toilet paper.
I need the trail cleared. I want to live the life I live hunting and roaming the wild. Right. Despite my politics.
Rachelle Schrute
00:30:19.090 - 00:32:35.256
Yeah. I look at a lot of the hunters in my space and it is a broad range of political beliefs just like anywhere else.
I would say the vast majority of hunters lean to the right, probably always have.
In my little bubble, I would say most hunters are pretty central, maybe a little bit leaning to the left just because my core group is very environmentally conscious.
So it's very much so, like, hey, I cannot catch these incredible, you know, blue ribbon fish out of polluted water and I can't hunt, you know, record breaking elk if that stretch of land is logged or if I can't get to it because it's privatized. Yeah. So there's, there's a vast spread of political beliefs in the hunt space.
I think as the pendulum always happens, that swing to the right that happened the last few years is probably swinging much more quickly to the left or at least center. Yeah. Once you start meddling with, I don't know, it's like I look at hunters a lot. Like I look at, you know, military. Right.
You have typically pretty right wing folks, but when you sit down and talk to them, they typically have pretty central or even left leaning beliefs when it comes to wild spaces. And yeah, it'll be interesting to see who makes the biggest difference politically, vocally, moving forward. I don't know. My voice doesn't matter.
I can educate a mass of people, but I don't know that a mass of people even matters anymore.
Aside from just getting people into office that are seeing what's happening and seeing the damage and can be, I don't know, put it in a way that these figureheads will understand. I don't know how to do that. I'm rarely at a loss for words, but the last couple months I've been pretty at a loss for words for what to do.
I don't know.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:32:35.408 - 00:33:04.070
Yeah, I guess to continue with hunting, but change the subject a little bit.
You really had this fantastic piece come out about being both attacked by a Bear and attacked by a man in the wild and, and how you would have preferred the bear. The bear attack was better. But I think that speaks to, to the kind of toxic masculinity that you have to deal with in the space you're in. Right?
Especially.
Rachelle Schrute
00:33:05.810 - 00:36:44.356
You know, I, I had a phone call last week talking about this just because of, you know, there were certain things, there were certain allegations against a certain male in the space. And this phone call came into me asking if I had any credible experience.
And I was like, again, you know, it's just this again thing and there's no, listen, I'm not like a pound my chest, I hate men sort of. That's not, that's not what this is at all. Because the bulk of my social circle are male. That's just how it plays out.
Because I happen to be in this space, the people that I'm gonna hunt and fish with are, are primarily going to be male. I'm almost always the only woman on a trip, maybe one or two of us, if it's a fishing trip, a hunting trip, you name it.
It's often that I'm the only woman at camp. And the greatest human beings I know happen to be male. I mean, the people I look up to happen to be male.
However, the worst of humanity unfortunately also happens to be male. It seems to be like just throughout humanity and in this space, you know, I'm often asked why I don't. My partner, he's a rad dude.
He's just a cool human being. And often people be like, do you guys hunt together? Do you take him with you? Most of the time the answer is no. I go by myself.
And people will be like, well, why, you know, why don't you take a, take a guy with you?
And I always find it funny that there's this like, take a guy with you because I'm in the, in the greater scheme of things, that's far more dangerous than going by myself.
Like in, in all practices of life, if I'm just there by myself, yeah, I might trip and fall or a bear might decide to munch on me, but statistically that will happen far less often than being assaulted by some random dude in the woods or not random by a peer. Statistically that's far more likely to happen. And I've had, I've had bad wildlife run ins just because I put myself in that.
Those spaces so often I'm going to, those are going to happen. I've had really bad wildlife run ins. None of them compare to Predators in boots. Right? Those are. Those are the worst.
Give me a mountainside and an angry bear 100 times over than an alley and a dude with bad intentions. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think there's a fix to it. Which. I wrote that piece, and at the end of it, I was like, wow, this is a real downer.
Because just. I mean, is there a fix? If there was a fix, it would be fixed.
The reality is just being a woman in a wild space is far safer than being a woman in a social space or an urban space or. I think that's just. Is what it is. I'm just more cautious than I used to be. And, yeah, for dudes that run into me, I will put an arrow in your knee.
I have no. I'm no longer polite. I used to be really polite. I used to be very. You know, you're raised to be kind, and.
And even when people are a little bit weird or creepy, you're raised to be kind. I'm not kind anymore. And I've raised my children. Children to also not be kind anymore. We just have to be vigilant, I guess. Bears do what bears do.
They're just being bears.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:36:44.468 - 00:36:45.120
Right.
Rachelle Schrute
00:36:45.740 - 00:36:57.160
People, unfortunately have bad intentions. A bear has never had a bad intention. For me, it just happened to be being a bear in the same space. I happen to be being a smaller edible item.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:36:57.820 - 00:37:16.010
Do you think there is a chance?
You know, I see it as a chance for men who want to really espouse what real masculinity to be to stand up against the toxic men out there who are drawn to these unfortunately drawn to wild spaces often. Or being alone where they can prey on people. Huh?
Rachelle Schrute
00:37:16.350 - 00:39:02.730
Yeah. You know, I heard.
I don't remember who it was that said it, but he had mentioned that as a man, he has many friends who have said or did things that were like little flags of like, are you joking? Are you serious? And he passed them off for years of like, ah, that's just, you know, Carl. Just Carl. Whatever.
And then Carl ended up in prison, you know, for violently sexually assaulting a woman. And he made a comment of like, I am partially to blame for that. I saw. I saw the things that he did or the things that he said, and I never.
Yeah, there's some. Listen, dudes will be dudes. They're gonna joke and. Ha ha. And look at that. And whatever. It is what it is. But when it's like, if you.
The slightest hint of Carl seems a little off, maybe say something to Carl or Like, don't maybe not even say something, but don't continue to like, bolster his like, haha, good one. A few little, A few guys standing up to that one dude in the group and being like, dude, that's not okay.
That could be the difference between him thinking it's okay and him not thinking it's okay. I mean, it's, it just takes those, those one little things, like not saying dude, that's not cool.
That one little line of dude, that's not cool could mean the difference between someone having a really, really bad experience with Carl or, or not. Maybe it's just that, that we just need to speak up a little bit. I don't know.
I'm just jaded and cynical and, and unfortunately, like, arrow to the knee is the solution.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:39:05.150 - 00:39:07.690
That one seems effective. That seems very effective.
Rachelle Schrute
00:39:08.110 - 00:39:11.370
Yeah, you're not going to chase me down with an arrow in your knee.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:39:12.590 - 00:39:22.678
You're listening to Rock Fight Radio. Oh, you got DJCT back with you spinning the hits. And it's that time because we have another new song from that hit machine, Fitz.
Rachelle Schrute
00:39:22.774 - 00:39:24.630
And Fitz wants to ask you why.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:39:24.670 - 00:39:28.374
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FITS!
00:39:28.422 - 00:40:38.462
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Rachelle Schrute
00:40:38.606 - 00:40:40.490
And now back to the show.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:40:41.510 - 00:40:52.438
I mean, it seems like changing that mindset too, will help bring more women into the sport as well. Because if they feel more comfortable in a hunting camp or out there with, you know, men and weapons and, you know.
Rachelle Schrute
00:40:52.574 - 00:42:37.450
Yeah, you know, I go on a lot of hunting and fishing trips that are organized through my, you know, through work through different brands and companies. And I've gotten to a point now that I just ask who's there ahead of time.
And I actually look into who's going to be there with me just because I want to know going in, I want to have some notion of who I'm hunting and fishing with and who I'm going to be out of cell phone service with and who I'm going to be, you know, stuck in the woods with. And now I'm, I'm never not prepared, even, even around like my favorite humans.
I'm just never not prepared as not only am I a woman, I'm a small woman. So I'm not gonna fight. I'm not fighting anybody. Let's just be realistic. My buck 20 isn't fighting anybody off. So I'm just prepared.
And I think that's one of those things. Once you're a woman in a wild space and you are often alone, the skills that you acquire to defend yourself. Invaluable, Invaluable.
You know, and I, I never even started, like, I didn't carry a sidearm for years. I just didn't. I'd rather carry bear spray. I still carry bear spray, but now it's like, it's almost symbolic.
If a guy walks up to you on the trail with a pistol on your chest, he's probably just going to walk away. So I, I don't know. I'm not a, I'm not a gun nut. I've never been like a gun nut.
But now, you know, things being what they are and again, political climate making people feel real emboldened about their rights to other human beings. Yeah, I don't know. I think women just have to protect, not just women, people in general just have to protect themselves in space.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:42:37.820 - 00:43:13.020
Well, to move on to maybe a more positive topic. Thank you for all your thoughts on that and hopefully that will change the minds and will change the culture.
But to move on to a more positive topic, you also wrote this great piece recently for Gear junkie, relocating Bighorn Sheep. And I love the line you started with, which is conservation often feels like an abstract concept.
And then you got into how conservation can really be hands on and how important that is and how important do you think it is for people to get their hands dirty and find out, you know, how it all really works.
Rachelle Schrute
00:43:14.240 - 00:48:54.690
Yeah. You know that I've had sort of a torrid relationship with conservation.
The, the, I've been on different conservation organization boards, I've held leadership positions, I volunteered at a lot of things. Events, field events, you know, you name it. And I feel like over the last few years I've fallen into this space of seeing.
And this isn't like talking grassroots. We're talking like big brands.
So when we start talking big brands and conservation, there's a lot of like, our commitment to conservation, you know, is this limited edition camo pattern, but that's it. There's no, like. Wait, so how is this limited edition camo pattern a commitment? What does it do? What does it do? I don't know that it does anything.
And it seems like a lot of bigger brands, you know, their, their actual conservation budget that is going on to the act the field, into the, into the conservation space. That budget is smaller than their, you know, trade show booth budget. So you have this like, this like, weird. We're conservation first.
And yeah, there's no obligation, you know, no outdoor brand has an obligation to conservation. And, and in the hunt space, it's always this.
Hunting is conservation because of, you know, Pittman Robertson dollars, depending on what you're buying. So, you know, you buy this product and you're a conservationist. Well, sure, at the bare minimum. Like the absolute bare minimum.
And so when, you know, brands, brands like Kuyou, that start conservation direct. Right. Which is just the money comes in, it's from customers directly. It's from the brand directly. There's no like, fundraiser.
There's no show, there's no marketing team. There's no, there's none of that. It's just this money we're putting directly into the field, into this project.
And here's exactly where it's used and exactly what it's doing. Super refreshing. Like, it's just.
Yeah, that stuff that grassroots groups have been doing for forever, you know, raising money that goes directly back into the field with no overhead and whatever. But it's rare to see it from a big brand that has big financial backing and can make huge impacts. And they do.
You know, I find that a lot of the other organizations, when you look at, well, one, it's hard to look at where the dollars are going. It's shockingly behind a veil where you can't see. Okay, well, where is this money actually going?
Yeah, it raised however many, you know, thousands or millions of dollars. Where's it going?
Like, I don't see any applicable thing going forward other than, you know, it pays for the next open bar or the next VIP dinner or, you know, and not to knock the big fundraisers, they make a ton of money. They make. They pull in boatloads of money.
There is room for fundraisers, there is room for galas and dinners and all of the things that bring those big names with big checkbooks to the table. Not knocking it, however.
Actually putting money directly into the space in a targeted, I don't know, a focused conservation project is something big brands just don't seem to be doing, especially in the hunt space. Cool. You just does it. And that's another one. That's a brand that has a whole lot of opinions for or against it because of whatever political ties.
So you can be like, I get, I got a ton of hate mail about that piece actually. Wow. Yes, a ton of hate mail.
And I just want to be like, well, political leanings aside, if we can put political leanings on the back burner and look at the work being done, like if, if valuable, positive work is being done, I'm for it. I'm for it. And I don't see enough of it. There's a lot of people that talk big talk.
There's just not a lot of people that actually like get out there and do real work for the minimum dollar required to do that work. You know, there's no camera crew. There's no, you know, you know, there was, we had, there was one guy with a camera.
Oftentimes it was like strapped above on a tent stake and then it made a quick little five minute film to show. Look, this is what we did with all those, the dollars and the collars. That's rad. That's all is required.
You don't have to have a big show and you don't have to have a big CEO and a big, you know, a high paycheck president and you know, marketing directors and all of this stuff to just do real work. So it's, you know, that that particular organization is kind of near and dear to my heart.
I've loved it since I first found out about it being an on the grounds part of that relocation. Incredible. Totally different. I've relocated sheep in Montana. Doing it in the desert. Not the same. Wild and incredible, just on its own.
But to see the actual tangible work being done for such a small dollar amount is so refreshing in a world that is burning. It was a highlight to see real conservation work happening on the ground. Measurable. Yeah, rad experience.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:48:55.230 - 00:49:01.850
So what do you think individuals can do to get their hands in it, to really make a difference, to participate.
Rachelle Schrute
00:49:04.120 - 00:51:07.560
On an individual basis? There are so many little things, you know, depending on where you live. There's probably a fishing access site right now. That is filthy.
Go clean it up. You don't need an organization to do it. Grab a trash Bag, go clean it up. We don't have the federal workforce that we had before in the wild spaces.
If you're hiking and there's a downed tree, go get a saw. Help. Those little things are so impactful to the greater space. Yeah. Not everybody gets to, like, go on a helicopter.
Sheep translocation, those are the big things. But the little things matter. You know, those, those sheep getting out there and eating a bunch of trash and dying. Well, now it was for nothing.
If people aren't like, doing the little, the little stuff that not everybody has the time to do and not every organization is going to focus on, then it's all for nothing. You know, little things, pick up trash at the park so that birds aren't eating it.
You know, like, that's that kind of stuff that sounds very, like, boy scouty, like clean up, pick up, don't litter, that kind of thing. It's huge.
If we imagine if we all picked up a piece of trash every day, like if every human being picked up a piece of trash every day, massive impact.
So those little things that you think, oh, it's not really helping, I don't know, start a neighborhood trash pickup, start a go pick up fishing line on the riverbank, you know, that, that sort of stuff is great. Things like, you know, people calling their local fish and wildlife, you know, offices and saying, what's this weed in the lake?
That wasn't here last year. Being observant of maybe this is an invasive thing and then helping clear it project.
You just done it all on your own with a little bit of gas money and an afternoon off. You know, those little things can be massively impactful. And then just do them on the regular. It'll make you feel good. It'll make your spaces better.
It's great for wildlife populations. You know, it doesn't have to be big. The little stuff is the big stuff.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:51:07.900 - 00:51:35.562
Love it. Love it. Now you are born and raised, state of Montana. One of my favorite places in the world.
Obviously, really important place to my heart and the person I've become. But I certainly know every time I go back there, it's changing really rapidly.
It seems to be changing even more rapidly than a lot of other places in the West. Do you see that where you are? Is it. I mean, it's always changing, right? The west has always been changing for decades.
Rachelle Schrute
00:51:35.626 - 00:52:28.750
Yeah. You know, yeah. Yes, it's changing rapidly. And yeah, there's. I mean, there's countless reasons for that. Right?
I mean, Covid, the old Covid years were brutal on Montana, because you could work from anywhere.
And so all of a sudden, people were like, wait, I can take my California income and move to Montana with a significantly lower cost of living, work from this beautiful place? But that's not sustainable. It's, you know, what do they call it? The Montana? The. The zoom. The populate. The zoom population that.
That popped up over here. It raised cost of living. It, you know, then you have television shows that, you know.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:52:29.210 - 00:52:29.970
Yes.
Rachelle Schrute
00:52:30.130 - 00:52:50.994
Made this wild fantasy out of what Montana isn't. Yes. And now there are places that are not even familiar to me anymore that I grew up in. Like, I go back and I'm like, what is. What is. What is this?
No, I don't want an artisanal water. I would just like a glass of water, please. I'm confused.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:52:51.122 - 00:52:52.830
So not Montana to me.
Rachelle Schrute
00:52:53.290 - 00:52:56.370
Yeah. What do you mean? Artisanal water?
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:52:56.490 - 00:52:56.818
Just.
Rachelle Schrute
00:52:56.874 - 00:55:13.100
We pump it out of the ground here. Our water's still awesome. Like, what are you. What are you talking about? So, yeah. And it's sad.
The cost of living is astronomical, and we still don't have the income to make it work. So again, it's not sustainable. Things are changing drastically. Places that were wild are being developed, which is heartbreaking. A lot of.
For me, it's hard to see places.
You know, the place I used to gopher hunt because it was an old farm and they would pay me per tail to get rid of gophers because they were doing irreparable damage to the field, is now like a very high end neighborhood. Like, a high end, as in, I don't have a card to get down that road because I got to scan at the gate neighborhood. It's wild to see it happening.
Change happens. Growth happens. I get it. Montana is unique in the.
The fact that we sort of sustained 1986 for a long time and then all of a sudden are thrown into like 20, 28. And it's. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. I'm fortunate that I'm in a space that hasn't been super impacted. I grew up.
I'm from western Montana, outside of Missoula. And then I spent a good chunk of my childhood around the Bozeman area. I don't go back if I don't have to. It's wild to see. I mean, the traffic.
And then there's like a haze of. You can come up the Bozeman, pass into Bozeman, and if the light is right, there's a haze.
There's this like, Pollution haze, where I'm like, what is, what is this? That should be wildfire smoke. That's our haze. We don't have haze in March. What? I don't understand it. So it's sad to see there's.
I don't know that there's a whole lot of stopping it. A couple of bad winners would do us real good. This year was a good one.
I bet it'll drive some people out when you're sitting at negative 50 and you know a 30 mile an hour crosswind that'll push some folks out. But. Yeah, it's sad, but that makes me sound like the angry local. Right. Get off my lawn and.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:55:13.480 - 00:55:35.800
Well, I think there's something home. And I mean, you're such a Montanan at heart, right? And there's something just wonderful to me about people of Montana.
You know, I know when I lived there, I love those people who, you know, showed up when I was not making a bunch of money and gave me some antelope sausages out of their freezer to have or whatever. Right. Like, we don't want to lose that right across the West. We're losing this sense of community.
Rachelle Schrute
00:55:36.500 - 00:57:02.380
Yeah. That's not gone, fortunately. I know that. You know, this place. You know, I look back to. I lived in Mile City for a long time and we had.
We had a resident there who's just. He never really held down a job. He had, you know, he had some mental health issues. He was like the town mental health guy.
He slipped, fell, broke his hip. The town raised the money to pay for his hip surgery. Like, we still have that where it's like, like Lewistown had. We. We had like a homeless guy.
The town just takes care of him. Like he. He couch hops, we feed him, we celebrate his birthday. There's still that, like, we take care of our own mentality, which is great.
I hope we don't lose it. I can't imagine we'll. It'd take a lot for especially the rural communities to lose that.
You know, if somebody falls on hard times, we're gathering clothes for their kids and we'll fill a freezer. I will fill anybody's freezer. I have more than enough meat. I fill a lot of freezers. And if my freezer starts to get empty, that's all right.
I'll just put it back that I hope we don't lose. I don't think we'll lose, but I. Again, we'll see. That's all a matter of again not to tie it back to politics. But if things change, things change.
And that's when you see these big shifts of like, no, I have to take care of myself. Forget everyone else, man, I hope Montana's a little bit immune from that.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:57:03.080 - 00:57:29.220
Yeah. Richelle, it has been such a pleasure talking to you.
I feel like I could keep talking for hours about Montana, especially since I love it so much and even all the other deeper subjects that we got into as well.
But we're getting near the end of the show and I want to ask you the question we asked everyone at the end of the show, which is in the midst of all this, especially everything we've been talking about. What gives you hope?
Rachelle Schrute
00:57:34.000 - 00:58:22.480
What gives me hope? That is a heavy question. I would say this next generation of soon to be adults gives me hope.
Seeing these strong willed, somewhat coddled but strong willed kids that are gonna come be vocal and stand for what's right and not just what's cool, man. They give me hope. Don't let me down, kids like, I just, I need this generation of 13 to 24, that bubble of whatever that is.
Don't let that powerful vocal group is gonna make a huge difference. They give me hope. I have great hope for them.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:58:23.180 - 00:58:36.320
I love that. Rachelle. Shoot.
It's been such a pleasure to talk to you and can you let people know where they can find your writing, where they can follow you, how they can learn more about anything we've talked about today?
Rachelle Schrute
00:58:37.340 - 00:58:59.626
You can find me just about anywhere. I'm the hunt and fish editor at Gear Junkie. You can find me there.
If you're interested in reading about hunting boots or fishing poles or any of that good stuff. I keep my field journals online@Field Chronicles.com if you feel like reading about what I did on Tuesday with my dogs and how many birds I saw.
I don't know how many people are interested in that, but it's there.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:58:59.698 - 00:59:00.550
Sounds great.
Rachelle Schrute
00:59:01.490 - 00:59:08.310
And then, yeah, on all the social media platforms, just first and last name. I think I'm the only one of me, so I'm pretty easy to find.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:59:09.010 - 00:59:13.252
Incredible. Again, thanks. And I hope we do it again sometimes.
Rachelle Schrute
00:59:13.426 - 00:59:14.820
Yeah, this is a blast.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:59:16.920 - 00:59:43.540
Thanks for imbibing Open Container, a production of Rock Fight llc.
Please take a second to follow our show on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on and send your emails and feedback to myrockfightmail.com check out Rachelle's work on gearjunkie.com our producers today were David Karstad and Colin True. Art direction provided by Sarah Genser. I'm Doug Schnitzbahn get some. Thanks for listening.
