Does The Outdoor Industry Have A Casual Problem?
- colin7931
- 10 hours ago
- 42 min read
Today on The Rock Fight our normal Monday crew of Producer Dave and outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford join Colin to run through the following topics!
We already have the dates and location for next year's Switchback Spring. With the show staying June, will there be a public pushback by brands? (07:28)
Then it's The Rock Fight Lightning Round where we hit a couple of industry news stories:
Moody's has downgraded VF due to the poor performance of Vans and Dickies. How does this news impact the broader outdoor industry? (15:40)
Solo Brands makes some moves that will help them avoid bankruptcy. (18:02)
Today's main topic peels back a key takeaway from last weeks OIA Trends presentation that took place at Switchback, namely that the casual outdoor consumer is growing and outdoor retailers should be luring those consumers into their stores. We ponder how that should be done and wonder if the outdoor industry as a whole has a genuine marketing problem. (23:16)
For The Parting Shot Colin hosts a round of "What Year Is This Outdoor Industry Story From". (47:05)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.560 - 00:03:57.520
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and today we're mostly back to normal and talking about what's happening in the outdoor industry.
But before we get to that, be sure to come back to the Rock Fight Podcast network tomorrow for a new episode of Open Container, hosted by the man with a 100% outdoor industry approval rating, Doug Schnitzbahn.
Tomorrow's episode features a conversation with another outdoor industry legend, Teresa Baker, who follow Open Container on your favorite podcast app. On Wednesday here on the Rock Fight, you will hear Chante Salibert for the last time. Until the end of July or maybe early August, I can't remember.
She and I will be hitting some topics to come out of the outdoor adventure community. And then on Friday we'll have a conversation with a notable voice in the outdoor industry.
It could be our second interview from G O a Connect or it's possible that Stacy Bear will be making his Rock Fight debut to talk public lands. Stay tuned to find out. Stacey, stick around. We'll be right back.
OK, so I'm @ my local outdoor shop and I see this hydration solution called Hydra Pack. Naturally, I assume it's for safely transporting a hydra. You know, the mythical beast regenerates heads, needs moisture. Makes sense, right?
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And retailers Hydra Pack is accepting new partners for their repack program and this is something you definitely want to get on board with. So yeah, not a Hydra Pack, but the legendary Hydra Pack.
Learn more@hydrapack.com and hey, if you're wondering how Hydra Pack and the Rock Fight got together, well, it was because of our mutual friends at Darby Communications. Because finding incredible solutions to get a message out there. That's just what Darby does.
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Colin True
00:04:13.680 - 00:05:41.210
Liz and Royal Robins were known as American Climbing Royalty. Part of the first group of Yosemite based climbers that would scale routes yet unclimbed.
Who would promote the ethic of clean climbing and who, with a core group of startup brands, would serve as the foundation of our modern outdoor industry.
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Available for streaming everywhere, you find actual water based tributaries Being Royal Robins because nature and adventure are good for the soul all right. It's Monday, but we're recording on Friday, and I'm still tired from switchback. How was everyone's flight home? And I'm here with Owen and Dave.
That's all you get. I'm tired.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:41.370 - 00:05:56.130
It was lovely. It was nice to be in a central place where it was just like a one and a half hour flight.
And Nashville also is a nice airport, sports a lovely Delta Sky Club lounge. So, yeah, it was great.
Producer Dave
00:05:57.490 - 00:05:59.010
Nashville does have a nice airport.
Colin True
00:05:59.730 - 00:06:04.770
Yeah, it was a very nice airport. Yeah. Dave, how many days have you spent at home in the last two and a half weeks?
Producer Dave
00:06:05.090 - 00:06:17.700
Not a lot. Not a lot. But I did. I had a relaxing flight home. I want to thank Alaska Airlines for delivering it on time and early arrival. And a tasty ipa.
Colin True
00:06:19.140 - 00:06:29.220
Yeah, I didn't quite get that. We had. I got.
I got out a little later than you guys, and we ran into a major line of storms, apparently that was extending from the upper Midwest to the Gulf Coast.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:29.220 - 00:06:30.220
Apparently, yeah.
Colin True
00:06:30.220 - 00:06:59.010
We had to fly around him, which delayed. And I was connecting through Minneapolis, so that delayed me getting to there. I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to miss my connection.
Turns out didn't miss my connection because my connecting flight was coming in from New York. And instead of going right from New York to Minnesota, it too flew south and around all of those storms.
So I didn't get home to about 2:45 Wednesday morning. So it was a long day. Loving the sympathy. Thank you.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:59.010 - 00:06:59.850
Thank you, guys.
Producer Dave
00:07:00.250 - 00:07:06.010
Well, it's. It's proportional to the enthusiasm of the intro.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:06.410 - 00:07:15.130
Yeah, there's really no better, you know, podcast content than just a long, long bellyache just complaining about travel wo.
Producer Dave
00:07:17.830 - 00:07:20.390
Followed by silence and dead air. Right.
Colin True
00:07:24.150 - 00:07:26.630
Fine. I'll sympathize with myself.
Producer Dave
00:07:26.630 - 00:07:28.110
There you go. There you go.
Colin True
00:07:28.110 - 00:08:05.380
All right, so our top story today is presented by. You know it, your hub for ultralight gear garage Grown gear. Head to garagegrowing gear.com and check them out.
And we tried on Friday to put the trade show conversation for this season anyway behind us, but there were actually a couple of newsworthy items that we need to touch on as we kick off today's episode. And the first of that being literally just a few hours after we recorded our Instant Reaction podcast that came out this past Friday.
Go listen to it if you have not. Right after we recorded that, the dates and location of the 2026 edition of Switchback were announced. The dates are identical.
June 16th to the 18th, but the location's moving to New Orleans.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:06.580 - 00:08:07.780
It's Nolan's please.
Colin True
00:08:07.940 - 00:08:12.270
No. Excuse me. Excuse me. At least I didn't say New Orleans. Right? That was true.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:12.270 - 00:08:13.470
True. That would have been awful.
Colin True
00:08:14.190 - 00:08:21.950
Well. Oh, and I do want to ask you, was this the fastest honeymoon of all time?
Like, are already the calls just like being made to the OIA and Switchback, you think?
Eoin Comerford
00:08:22.670 - 00:08:39.840
I think it was actually a preemptive strike on their part so that they could say, oh, actually, you know, because there was the, you know, the rumor of the open letter that was going to come out and it's like, well, hey, sorry, open letter, it's already booked. We can't change it because, you know, if that would be my guess. Right, right.
Colin True
00:08:39.840 - 00:08:40.800
Just getting ahead of it.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:40.960 - 00:08:48.800
Getting ahead of it so that. So that you can kind of cut it off at the pass and then maybe allow some time for. For further conversation.
But yeah, they just wanted to get it out there.
Colin True
00:08:50.320 - 00:09:20.840
Yeah.
One thing I was thinking about reading some of the coverage in SGB of Switchback and looking ahead because the convention center in New New Orleans is going to be quite a bit larger than the ones we were in in Nashville, you know, because one category that we really haven't talked about, there was, you know, no paddling. There are no paddling at Switchback.
And again, they mentioned that in the SGB article that more floor space needed to cover water sports at the show and perhaps this will allow for that. Dave, how important to the industry do you think it is to have those brands represented?
Producer Dave
00:09:22.120 - 00:09:38.380
Well, look, I think they are part of the soul of the industry, frankly.
It's kind of like I miss the climbing walls and all of the climbing brands all lined up together in terms of the gauntlet of carabiners, the climbing.
Colin True
00:09:38.380 - 00:09:39.860
Section at PK or was probably the.
Producer Dave
00:09:39.860 - 00:09:41.340
Coolest section in the entire show, whether.
Colin True
00:09:41.340 - 00:09:42.340
You climbed or not.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:42.500 - 00:09:42.980
I agree.
Producer Dave
00:09:43.780 - 00:10:45.020
Look, again, it's one of those. And we'll talk about this kind of even just the ROI of a show. And we're going to get into some of the OIA's kind of breakdown of the consumers.
It's an inverse pyramid. Right. I mean, we look at a pyramid from the top being the core and the bottom being the mainstream.
And the widest opportunity financially is always that base of the Pyram.
But when you flip that thing upside down, the core elements at the top become a foundational piece for the entire industry from a trend perspective, from an innovation perspective. Right. And so it's like you can't separate the two.
And paddling and climbing are always going to be nestled in that top of the pyramid piece, smaller economics, but still an important influence to the industry. So I do think that's one of the things we can grow back into as Switchback and bring the paddlers back in the boat.
Colin True
00:10:45.020 - 00:10:47.420
Also, when you flip it upside down, it becomes a pyramid scheme.
Producer Dave
00:10:47.420 - 00:10:50.940
You know, I don't think you have to flip it to be a pyramid scheme.
Colin True
00:10:51.500 - 00:10:53.900
They're calling the outdoor industry a pyramid scheme.
Producer Dave
00:10:53.980 - 00:10:54.940
I believe you did.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:56.140 - 00:11:15.100
It would be interesting. I mean, we're right there on Lake Pontchartrain, so, you know, could there be some water activations and some other things?
I mean, I don't think of Nollins as an excessively outdoor city. It's going to be a little sticky, I think in June, but I think it will be.
Colin True
00:11:15.180 - 00:11:18.700
So was Nashville, though. Not that we knew because we were inside the thing.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:18.700 - 00:11:37.420
Exactly. And what I like is that the convention center is much more integrated into downtown there.
So there will be much more opportunity for that kind of go see some sites, go have a dinner off site this or that and not as biodome ish as the last one.
Colin True
00:11:38.400 - 00:12:04.720
Well, and also not to bring down the mood, I've heard from a few different folks who attended or folks not named Lloyd Vogel. Apparently attendance was sparse.
Let's just say it was a bit of a rough week in SLC, you know, so when OR has also announced their 2026 dates and they're going to be taking place the week after switchback.
I mean, do we, you know, not to get too kind of weird with it here, but do we think this they might take a big swing and move the show to August just in an attempt to compete?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:05.080 - 00:13:00.860
I think it does have to be differentiated in some way and certainly the date would be one form of differentiation.
I think if that's not it, then there needs to be some other way because it does seem like the core outdoor brands have lined up with the OIA behind Switchbank. And so what are the other ways? But if switchback isn't going to take on paddle, let's say maybe that's an area where. Or leans in. Maybe it's bike.
Maybe it's even more lifestyle. This whole casualization conversation. Right.
And really going hard after that, maybe it's emerging brands or wider outdoor like RV or I mean, I guess you could do overlanding, but. But actually Emerald already owns the Overland Expo that's doing extremely well. So I don't think that they would try to muddy that water. So.
But yeah, it needs to offer something. Something different that's interesting.
Producer Dave
00:13:00.860 - 00:13:02.740
Is it like a magic of the outdoor.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:04.480 - 00:13:06.400
Right. Potentially, maybe. Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:13:06.640 - 00:13:08.160
Can we call it Trail Magic?
Colin True
00:13:09.840 - 00:13:14.480
I think they will nowadays. That was pretty good. No free creative suggestions here.
Producer Dave
00:13:14.480 - 00:13:16.560
I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Just kind of.
Colin True
00:13:19.200 - 00:13:41.740
I will say the OIA should probably be taking a bigger victory lap here, I think. You know, there was at least a couple people I spoke to at Brands who said that they jumped on board with Switchback when the OIA aligned.
So I think I saw. I think that makes it a little bit more formidable regardless of what the dates are over that anybody does.
I did have a little exchange with Todd Frank from the Trailhouse this morning on LinkedIn and reference that.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:41.740 - 00:13:42.300
Not trailhead.
Colin True
00:13:42.300 - 00:13:54.220
Excuse me, the trailhead. Thank you. I'm thinking the Trailhouse. That was the one in Frederick, Maryland. I think so.
Apologies, but that does seem like a bit of more of an advantage having the OIA involved than maybe some people would have thought a year ago at this point.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:54.380 - 00:13:57.180
I mean, they were a key partner to or obviously back in the day.
Colin True
00:13:57.580 - 00:13:58.300
Right, Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:59.180 - 00:14:06.740
I'd be interested to understand what the financial relationship is with Switchback because pyramid scheme, pyramid schema. Okay, good to know.
Colin True
00:14:08.180 - 00:14:08.900
Dave said.
Producer Dave
00:14:11.620 - 00:14:14.660
You'Re not throwing me under the bus for that, Colin. That was all you.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:15.940 - 00:14:24.740
All you. The OR of old used to be the primary funding source for oia, so it'll be interesting to see how that works.
Colin True
00:14:24.900 - 00:15:19.460
All right, well, that's it for realist time. No trade show talk until at least August. Unless something, I guess, giant breaks between now and then, which I would be unlikely anyway.
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00:15:19.620 - 00:15:24.260
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Colin True
00:15:25.060 - 00:15:27.900
That's what those titanium tent stakes we've heard about cost.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:27.900 - 00:15:28.220
It's.
Colin True
00:15:29.730 - 00:15:30.450
And you get three.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:30.690 - 00:15:31.090
Three.
Colin True
00:15:31.250 - 00:16:16.780
All right, we're going to do a little lightning round. The Rock fight. Lightning Round is presented by the ultimate comfort of Lem's footwear. Head to lemsshoes.com to learn more.
And I want to touch on a couple of headlines that have come out over the last couple of weeks before we get to today's main story. The first one being, according to SGB Moody's downgraded VF Corp.
Due to its need for significant continued operational initiatives to support the turnaround of its van's business and quote, the agency went on to say, quote, while we view the transformation initiatives positively, the actions continue to be extensive and require a longer timeframe than expected to return the Vans brand to profitable growth, end quote. Owen, what are the implications of this news for VF and beyond, for the industry beyond vf?
Eoin Comerford
00:16:17.260 - 00:17:11.970
Yeah, I think the actual downgrade itself, the big downgrade was last, last fall when they were downgraded from investment grade to speculative grade, AKA junk bones. So that was tough. And this is just a little notch there.
I wouldn't read too, too much into that other than just that it just talks about the tough environment I think that even the biggest brands in our industry are facing.
The one thing I would say though is if you dig into the numbers a little bit more, actually North Face's more outdoor oriented brands are doing a little bit better. So like the North Face returned to growth last year. Timberland was up last year. Really. The anchors on this deal are Vans and Dickies.
Those are the ones that are, you know, and not really outdoorsy brands. I mean, yes, they are in some outdoor stores, but that's not what their core is about. So yeah, I think it's more about that than anything.
Colin True
00:17:12.210 - 00:17:28.990
Do you find, is there a, is it a stretch or to say that there's a correlation between when we talk about things on the show about like, you know, the exclusivity we talked about with the lone peak 9 + for Ultra and Rei. Is there more pressure internally to kind of find things like that when certain parts of the portfolio are struggling?
Eoin Comerford
00:17:29.470 - 00:17:55.420
Of course, I mean sales cure a lot of ills, right? When you can grow, it's much more fun, I would say, to grow your way out of profitability issues than to cut your way out of profitability issues.
And so it's a bit of a rising tides scenario. So. But certainly if you can drive some more sales, drive some more top line from each of the brands, that really.
Colin True
00:17:55.420 - 00:18:23.710
Does help all right, well, we'll obviously be keeping close tabs on what happens at VF because a lot of things that happen at VF impacts the rest of the outdoor industry. Next story. Solo Brands back in the news.
Also, according to sgb, Solo Brands Incorporated, which is the parent of Solo Stove, Chubby's island, oru, excuse me, restructured Solo Brands debts and has appointed John Larson as the permanent President and CEO. Owen, what's the kind of broader context and impact of this move at Solo Brands?
Eoin Comerford
00:18:24.190 - 00:20:13.800
Well, I think this is actually great news because it does sound like this is going to allow them to hopefully avoid bankruptcy. Going into this year. They had basically fully drawn down on their line of credit, kind of building a bit of a war chest of cash.
And they had actually said, hey, it's likely we're going to break our banking covenants. And to those that don't know, those are sort of financial numbers that you have to hit in order to keep the loan.
And when you break those covenants, they can actually call the loan. In other words, they can say, hey, we want all that money back right now.
Which would have more than likely put Solo Brands into bankruptcy because they have over 400 million in debt.
So what this basically does is it says, hey, listen, we're going to restructure everything to make it more affordable given your current cash flow and to really give this thing a bit of a long term, longer run. And banks don't do this charitably. Banks are not in the business of. I mean, they try and they're human, I think. But for today. For today, sure.
But really what it says is that the banks are looking at the business and they think they have a better chance to recover more of their debt and interest payments if they keep the business going as a going concern versus running it through. Running it through a bankruptcy process. I can see why.
If you look at the numbers for Solo Brands, they did over $450 million in sales last year with a 57% gross margin.
So a little bit of restructuring of debt, a little bit of slashing of sdna, you should be able to get to a point where that is a profitable business that can kick off cash to cover the interest and to cover the loans.
Colin True
00:20:14.830 - 00:20:18.430
Do you think they heard that pack fires coming? They're like, we got to get our house in order, you know?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:18.430 - 00:20:19.070
Absolutely.
Colin True
00:20:19.150 - 00:20:20.590
Wallenfels is on the case.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:22.750 - 00:20:30.670
Mike. Mike is. Mike is OG outdoor. I mean, he is definitely a stalwart. It was great to see him at switchback.
Colin True
00:20:31.710 - 00:20:38.430
So do you think any of this. And I'm kind of kidding, but I'm also kind of not. Do you think this plays into Chubby's poor booth at Switchback?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:38.510 - 00:21:03.850
Totally. Believe me, in these sorts of scenarios, any kind of cash outlay is. Is scrutinized.
I'm guessing either they were too afraid to ask, or maybe they said, hey, you know, like, if you could spend like 20 grand, really, 20 grand, really have a cool booth. And they're like, no, you get basically a couple of rolling racks and, you know, a $10 Kinko's banner. That's what you get.
Colin True
00:21:04.250 - 00:21:07.290
See what you can find in the sample closet and take that.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:07.770 - 00:21:24.530
Yeah. And you can actually see it in the numbers.
If you look at their Q1 results that came out, I think fairly recently, but they slashed their SGA by almost 20%. Like almost $10 million they cut out of SGA in Q1. So, yeah, money is tight.
Producer Dave
00:21:25.650 - 00:21:26.050
Well.
Colin True
00:21:26.530 - 00:21:27.250
Oh, go ahead, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:21:27.250 - 00:22:02.410
I was just going to say maybe.
I think the booth is indicative of a larger issue of not just the dollars you can spend to it, but treating Chubbies like Solo Stove or any of their other brands in the way they market it has hollowed out what made it great. Chubby's did not get to where it was because they had money. They got to there because their positioning was unique, their voice was unique.
It was fun. Right. And that just. Just kind of, that's what they've lost.
So maybe the financial problems wouldn't be so, you know, rough if they continue to stoke the soul of the brands that they buy.
Colin True
00:22:02.890 - 00:22:29.430
Well, and this is actually an interesting kind of thing to reflect on when we talk about, like all the conversations around zombie brands and the grief we've given Marmot over the last year or so, and even like now the Marmot trying to come back because these are the moments, right, when these little things happen.
And you take a brand like Chubby's, which was what Dave just described as real, I mean, like the pinnacle of cool 10 years ago, and now we're having these kinds of conversations and like, how does this play out over time? So I don't know. Pretty interesting stuff.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:29.430 - 00:22:50.450
Yeah. I mean, obviously I would be a little bit more worried if you were seeing the same thing on their consumer facing marketing. Hopefully they're not.
And they thought, well, this is just an industry get together, who the hell cares?
But obviously if you did have somebody that had more of a bigger brand brand mindset, I think they would have come up with a different solution or found a few more dollars to do something.
Colin True
00:22:51.490 - 00:24:06.680
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All right, Today's main topic on the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, the pride of Bozeman, Montana, who's also the the cupid to the outdoor world this past week at the Outdoor Industry Association Trends presentation at Switchback Spring, which I apparently just can't stop saying it, even though I said I wasn't going to say it anymore. Switchback Spring. How many more times am I going to say it?
Kelly Davis, the director of research for the OIA and former guest here on the Rock Fight, posited that outdoor retailers fix outdoor retail's fixation on core participants was coming at the expense of welcoming more casual consumers. And this sort of dovetails into our conversation last week about REI going more casual as well.
Are these dots, I just want to ask you guys, are these dots that kind of appear easy to connect, but if you peel them back a few layers, you find that this argument doesn't hold as much water as you might originally think? You kind of see where I'm going with that?
Producer Dave
00:24:06.760 - 00:24:07.040
No?
Eoin Comerford
00:24:07.040 - 00:25:27.970
Colin, can you tell us really? Well, first of all, I just shout out to Kelly, great presentation, lots of energy.
I'm a numbers person, so I really respect another data nerd up there nerding it up about the numbers. So that was fun.
I think there were some interesting insights and I like the fact that they took a different slice of things to add more than just the amount that somebody participates in an activity defining whether they were core versus non core. And it was really more about, yes, it was frequency, but it was also their overall mindset and differentiating them that way.
To me, what it comes down to, though, and I think the danger here is that people go right to the casual part. They go ditch to ditch.
So it's like, hey, we were all about the core, but oh shit, now we're going to focus on the casual and it's more about, no, no, no, we want to move from core to target active, the middle group there, because you've already got the core. You're not going to lose the core. They're already. You already have them. Right.
If you take all your branding and all your product and then move it to casual, I think you lose the active people and probably the core. Whereas if you focus on active, that's an easier step up for casual. And it doesn't piss off the car would be my take.
Colin True
00:25:28.770 - 00:25:55.140
Yeah, I guess what I'm getting at here is, you know, the one thing she said during her presentation is like, these are people that should be shopping in your stores. And I kind of look at it as like, well, the assortment at most outdoor shops are already sort of set up to serve casual customers.
And so given the state of active apparel, the casual consumer is not underserved and may be more likely to be waiting for like the Nike skims, you know, sub brand to launch versus looking to go shopping in a specialty outdoor store.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:55.770 - 00:26:33.100
It also depends on what you define as casual, because I think as Kelly was talking about it, it was more around. These were people who were just getting into the outdoors.
And it's not casual as in, I'm buying something just to lay on my couch and lounge around the house. It's still somebody who wants to do outdoor activity, but they're not super active and super into it. They're more like on the on ramp.
I think where it gets dangerous is when you start to say, oh, casual means casual apparel. That is stuff that isn't related in any way to the activities that are core to our industry. And that's, I think, where the.
Where you can really kind of get off the rails.
Producer Dave
00:26:34.140 - 00:26:36.460
Does it count if you move your couch outside?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:37.660 - 00:26:39.940
Yes, it does. That is an outdoor activity. Yes.
Producer Dave
00:26:39.940 - 00:26:40.300
Thank you.
Colin True
00:26:40.300 - 00:27:41.270
But that's. Well, I guess that's kind of what I mean when she says these are people who should be shopping in your stores.
I'm picturing a sort of real core outdoor shop, right. That has like a climbing wall with like cams and carabiners and kayaks and things like that. And I'm picturing the sort of early to the.
Well, or just the casual consumer, they might be fine just going to like the Lululemon brand store and getting some stuff to go out and be active in. And I just feel like that's like. That's what I'm saying about dots that are easy to connect. Right.
It's like easy to say, hey, you should be luring this part of the consumer base into your shop.
And that's where I'd also argue that most of those kinds of even hardcore stores are set up already to serve that consumer if they should find their way into those stores.
But there's just so many options between the Internet and, like, a Lulu store or an arc' Teryx store or a Nike store or whatever to kind of serve those people.
I don't know, it just kind of feels like, sure, I would love to sell them things that they want to come into my little hardcore gear shop, but it's not like I don't really know if I should be. How much more should I be working as a gear shop owner to try and go capture that segment of the market?
Eoin Comerford
00:27:41.750 - 00:27:59.330
To me, it was more about some of the comments that Kelly made around how some and not all, but some outdoor gear shop or gear shop employees look down on the casual user. Right. And you know, the. The whole, I think, noob and then gaper. I hadn't heard gaper. Had you heard gaper before? That was.
Colin True
00:27:59.330 - 00:28:01.330
Apparently that's not outside of the porn industry.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:01.650 - 00:28:15.370
Oh, dear God. Anyway, moving on from that. But okay, anyway, Dave's not even laughing.
Colin True
00:28:15.370 - 00:28:17.010
This is not fair. Come on. That was funny.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:20.940 - 00:28:51.390
But no, the point being. So, like, if you're. If you are you. First of all, you're right. There's plenty of. There's plenty of different opportunities.
Like, if you're a casual person, you could go into Dick Sporting Goods, right? Like, from a casual perspective, they have a lot of product. They have a lot of athleisure stuff there.
They have outdoor or outdoorsy product there as well. And so.
But you're not going to get probably a lot of help from somebody that knows much about the outdoors or how to get started in trailing or anyone.
Colin True
00:28:51.390 - 00:28:55.030
If you're into exporting goods, fair, they.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:55.030 - 00:28:56.430
Can get you the size nine. But.
Colin True
00:28:57.070 - 00:28:57.630
Exactly.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:58.590 - 00:29:27.450
So then it becomes a question of, as a consumer, would you rather do that and try and kind of figure it out because the assortment is there, or would you rather go into your local outdoor store, which also has the assortment, and as people who hopefully can help. But if they make you feel like a bit of a noob or someone that. Just a noob. Yeah. If they make you feel like a noob, then you're like, you know what?
I'd actually just rather go and kind of go to Dick Sporting Goods. So that, to me is like, the challenge.
Colin True
00:29:28.650 - 00:30:38.200
I feel that. I also think that's a tough thing to overcome as well. Right. Think about who does work at an outdoor specialty shop. Right?
It's the river guide who's like, off the river or it's the dirtbag climber who shows up to apply for the job in their stained Patagonia baggies. Chacos. That fits the identity. And I think, like, I would hate to give that up. Like, I.
When I want to go get really good coffee, I want the angry barista who's, like, all tatted up and has, like, face piercings and, like, does not want to give me the time of day because I walk in like, oh, this shit's going to be good. You know, like, please be mean to me. And bike shops, the same thing, right? They get that reputation of, like, the angry wrench at the bike shop.
And I mean, these are kind of extreme archetypes.
But so, again, I'm not saying that those people shouldn't welcome somebody in to, you know, buy a pair of, like, you know, tights to go hiking around in. But I just feel like. I don't know. I don't. I think it's kind of a. It's a.
It seems like it's just an easy dot to connect to saying, oh, you should be welcoming these people into your stores. Like, why do we assume that they're already not being welcomed in? You know, I don't know. That just.
It just feels like an odd sort of thing to, like, kind of. In the face of our conversation last week about.
About rei, it's like, are we marketing ourselves as casual or are we just set up to accept the casuals who come in?
Eoin Comerford
00:30:38.750 - 00:32:06.380
One thing I would say is that more than likely the people that work in an outdoor specialty store are going to be part of core. Just. It's just the nature of the beast. Because a. One of the big reasons why you work in outdoor retail is just to get the EP right.
Discount, get this right. So it's less of a value prop to work for whatever minimum wage is in your state if you're not into that.
So that's one part I would say if I go back to my days at Moosejaw, we specifically hired for personality. Like, you didn't have to have any retail experience.
If you love the outdoors and love sharing that with other people in an engaging way, we would hire you. We can teach you how to run a pos. That's not a core skill, but it's hard to teach people to be fun and engaging, quite frankly.
It's either kind of part of who they are or not. So that was a key thing. And I used to actually get but pretty much every piece of feedback for the store.
I would read every piece and there was nothing that had got me More pissed off when somebody sent feedback that said, I went in the store and there were three retail associates, and they were all just kind of crowded up behind the cash wrap, just talking, you know, just chatting to themselves and barely acknowledged me. I'm like, that was like DEFCON 9. My director of retail, he would see one of the. Cause he would get them as well. He'd see one of those come across.
Colin True
00:32:08.360 - 00:32:09.240
It's going to be a long day.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:09.320 - 00:32:18.720
Yeah, right. Because I would want to know, okay, Nick, Nick, who is my director? I said, nick, okay, you know, you know that. You know the drill. I want to know who.
I want to know when this. When this was. I want to know.
Colin True
00:32:18.720 - 00:32:19.760
I know you have the schedules.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:19.760 - 00:32:36.230
Nick, I know you have the schedule. I want to know who was on the schedule, what was going on. Right. And if that was like. If that was a.
An assistant manager, like, okay, we need to talk to them. If that. If that was a gm, like a store general manager. Oh, wow. Bad things are happening.
Colin True
00:32:36.710 - 00:32:42.230
Yeah. It's the retail equivalent of like, what we were complaining about last week of like the guy sitting at the sales rep at the trade show.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:42.230 - 00:32:43.270
Totally. It's like, why.
Colin True
00:32:43.430 - 00:32:45.910
Why are you here? Why are you here?
Eoin Comerford
00:32:46.070 - 00:32:59.430
Yeah, exactly. And I get, you know, there's other. There's busy work that you have to do, et cetera, in the store to keep it looking good and doing all the things.
And we would ship it a ton of product out of our store. So that was all good. But you have to understand the priority. Right. That isn't an excuse.
Colin True
00:32:59.670 - 00:33:32.160
Yeah. I do wonder if there's a. This is also related. This kind of conversation around the casual is to the.
Just the overabundance of stuff that we're making and how readily it is available. I don't know, just because, like, you know, it is.
And isn't it always sort of what we've always wanted in terms of more and more people sort of coming in and the amount.
Okay, if you're saying that the cord is declining, but by how much and is that sort of a fluid number that's kind of like ebb and flow over the years, but really, ultimately, we still just want more people engaging in sort of going outside casually even, because it's a healthier lifestyle. And that's kind of what we all should be driving towards.
Producer Dave
00:33:33.110 - 00:34:09.330
But let me just say, if you throw a party and you don't send out invitations, no one's going to come to your party. To me, this is an assortment of. This assortment is not an issue. It's that what outreach do these shops do in the first place?
They don't outreach to the core, let alone people that would fall outside of that.
And so if a real desire to want to reach a new customer, you're going to have to do the work to bring them and give them a reason to come is not just about the items because of course they can get those items anywhere else. You just said that.
Colin True
00:34:09.490 - 00:34:14.690
Right. This goes back to our experiential marketing conversation a few months ago.
Producer Dave
00:34:14.770 - 00:35:51.290
Right. And I would even push back a little bit of sense about the, you know, the non welcoming aspect.
Sure, that's an outlier, but I found this industry to be the opposite of that, to be very welcoming to new people rather than be out on the trail or on the river or in the stores. If you've got questions, people love to answer them and to kind of guide you into a positive experience.
And I mean, you know, anecdotally that was my experience into this industry and it came from paddlers as we connected back. Know nothing about kayaking or anything. And you come upon folks and they are immediately, hey, come on over. Would you like to try?
I can show you how to do it. Like taking time out of their day.
And it created a profound impact in terms of, you know, my kind of impression of the industry and the people involved in it. It makes you want to do more. And I just, I see that, you know, you see some of those conversations in the store as well.
So yeah, I would like to talk more about maybe what's the brand responsibility into this discussion versus the retail piece. Because look, at the end of the day, the retailer is going to buy six versions of blue, brown and gray. Right.
So we know what you're going to get there. So what are the brands doing to be more inclusive from a casual.
And is that always, you know, like you said, that lurching from one side to the other. That's kind of the, the thing I took from that. I love.
I liked the way they broke down the categorizations and her conclusion that happy at the end of the day is what's being sold. I'm a big believer of that. And that's absolutely marketed brands forever. Right?
Eoin Comerford
00:35:51.290 - 00:35:51.690
That was.
Producer Dave
00:35:51.690 - 00:35:53.050
But. Oh, go ahead.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:53.290 - 00:36:54.330
Oh, and that was a big driver between. With Moose Jaw. Right. I mean that was the whole, the whole Moose shtick. Right. Was that outdoors should be fun.
And that wasn't the case when Moose was kind of growing up in the mid 2000s. I think though, there's a difference between.
Let's say moving your marketing from misery marketing on the side of the mountain to people altogether having fun around a campfire or hiking together or what have you to. And this is where I'm afraid we're going to.
Oh, we're going to have brands doing pictures of their stuff, you know, at the bar or you know, around the barbecue at home where everyone, somebody's got a glass of wine and you know, so it's like.
And yeah, do people wear outdoor apparel and stuff to do those things or sitting at home on the couch with their, you know, hokas up on an ottoman or whatever? One million percent they do that. But should that be the core of how we're going to market brands in the outdoors? God, I hope not.
Producer Dave
00:36:54.890 - 00:39:04.960
Well, I would even say that, you know, you've got to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Like it is not one or the other, it's all of these.
And actually a good marketing mix will be able to touch on all of these different experiences that you have with the brand in an authentic way. And if we go from one to the other, the exclusion of the other, that's where you're going to get in trouble.
That's the classic bind that you spent at the end of the day. Outdoor brands are performance brands, right? They are in a sense like ath, like an athletic brand.
And so you have to stoke that, that perception and that foundation that is your. Our stuff is good for high level sports activities engagements. And you've got to continually com. Stoke that engine.
And if you get away from it to turn to a casual, you're going to lose that authenticity and legitimacy and you will erode. And that's the danger of always playing into that trend of lifestyle. You go back to the 19, you know, the 70s. That's what crushed Adidas.
They had a massive, massive, huge. They were the Nike before Nike, right. But they followed and chased the trends that were ATH and Athleisure. Right?
And Nike moved in with a more performance messaging and helped kind of create the industry that would follow along, still grabbing that lifestyle opportunity. And that's just one example. But that's the danger, the dark side of like chasing and like lurching around.
And I, I think going back to what we were talking about earlier with, with VF and Vans, I think vans issue is that they've forgotten that they're an actual performance brand, that all this art and lifestyle is awesome and it's a part of the culture and you want to lean into it. When we were there. We brought the Warp Tour on as an example of that and really as a, a soundtrack expression of what the brand was.
But at the same time, we doubled down on skateboarding and snowboarding and surfing and BMX and paid athletes more and made sure they got their im, their, their, you know, their, their images out there. I mean, it's just, it's really important that you've got to be able to do both at the same time and recognize that performance fuels lifestyle.
And that's just, that's just the way it goes.
Colin True
00:39:05.360 - 00:39:34.050
I think you, you guys helped me kind of get to what my sort of, you know, the thing I'm kind of struggling with here. And it's because outdoor retail, I feel like probably just has a general marketing problem because.
And I'm going to blow some smoke up your ass, Owen, because like the last time I remember seeing a, you know, know, marketing by a retailer that was interesting was probably Moose Jaw because you guys were a little irreverent. You're doing fun things and it stood out in all the right ways. And I'm painting with a broad brush. I'm sure somebody's going to hear this.
And their shop does an incredible job of all the things that we're talking about.
Producer Dave
00:39:34.050 - 00:39:35.530
You're awful, Colin. You're awful.
Colin True
00:39:35.769 - 00:40:12.960
I really am. But I mean, I think, think about even the stuff you see from the big guys, the Reis and the Dicks, all the way down.
I mean I, I follow a fair amount of outdoor retailers on Instagram because just, you know, for the show and things like that and it's, you know, some people do some interesting things. They put little fun, you know, reels up or whatever, but it's not, you know, it doesn't really say.
It doesn't make a value proposition about why somebody should shop there.
And there's a way you could easily create a campaign that is like, hey, you can come get the most hardcore shit here that you could ever want to use in the outdoors. But also, hey, you person who just wants a pair of Vuari shorts to go to yoga, we could serve you too. And like, where is the messaging?
And there isn't any messaging from a lot of these folks.
Producer Dave
00:40:12.960 - 00:40:18.390
Colin. It's a tofu sailboat sailing on a sea of vanilla. Vanilla. It is just as boring as can be.
Colin True
00:40:18.950 - 00:40:21.110
Could it be. Is it tempura Tofu?
Producer Dave
00:40:21.110 - 00:40:25.230
That would be too spicy. This is just.
Colin True
00:40:25.230 - 00:40:55.030
No, I think that's, it's kind of, I think because that kind of speaks to what I'm. What I'M getting at here. Right. Because Kelly's not wrong. And frankly it's. We're overdue to have Kelly back on the show.
We need to bring her back on soon.
But it's, you know, right now you just kind of look at it and like I think of my local shop, which feels like a gear shop, but like anything that posts on Instagram is either we're hiring or hey, look at this climber out in Joshua Tree. Right. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that.
But like I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of them of like hearing Kelly's advice, like, what would they do? And they have all the stuff that she's talking about.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:55.590 - 00:41:50.889
Totally. Yeah. And I actually had this. I gave a presentation at Grassroots and it was on how specialty outdoor stores can really compete against the big guys.
But one of the big ones was social media. That, that I looked at probably 50 different stores, grassroots store social media accounts. And it's just, eh. Right. It was to your point.
It's like we're having a sale, we're hiring, maybe we're having an event. But it's like your social media, you should be the outdoor hub for your town. Right.
Anything outdoorsy that's happening, you should be talking about it and welcoming people in and just really just people should be thinking, oh, if I've got anything outdoorsy going on, I should be letting the outdoor stores know.
And then likewise, if I'm interested in the outdoors at all, even as a casual user, whatever, I want to be subscribed to that feed because they are the hub of what's happening.
Colin True
00:41:51.530 - 00:41:53.530
Dave, I'm going to tee you up. You ready?
Producer Dave
00:41:53.690 - 00:41:54.170
Yeah.
Colin True
00:41:55.210 - 00:41:59.210
Should. If I'm an independent shop owner, Dave, should I treat my shop like it's its own brand?
Producer Dave
00:42:01.700 - 00:42:11.740
Wow, Colin, that's a tough, insightful question that. Let me, let me look at. You are your own brand, right? And so you definitely got to.
Colin True
00:42:11.740 - 00:42:14.140
Who does that though. That's kind of the point to own. Right.
Producer Dave
00:42:14.140 - 00:42:15.620
But there are some that do for sure.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:16.820 - 00:42:18.500
Probably the Mountaineer is a great one.
Colin True
00:42:18.660 - 00:42:35.930
It's not just the re. It's not just retail.
This is the same conversation we had about like TikTok and how like Nara is crushing it on TikTok and they have more followers than a lot of big brands because they have figured out how to kind of. Of apply that for their brand. And all these other brands who have tons of money are sort of like just wandering in the wilderness of social media.
Producer Dave
00:42:35.930 - 00:43:37.790
Well, to. To that point, as A, as a, as a local retailer, they can get focused again on the sale and the item. And there are pl. There is a place for that.
But like we were just kind of getting. What's your argument? What's your reasoning for me to come to the store in the first place? What is the vibe that you're selling?
The experience you, if you know you can talk directly to new people, right, and reassure them to come in and learn something, feel something, enjoy yourself. You can talk to the core, right? Going deeper, getting the things that you know that you're looking for. There's just.
Social media is great because it allows you to Target this wide 360 degree circumference that is the brand personality and is the archetypes of people you're trying to talk to. That's the beauty of it.
And I think if we start, stop looking so much about an item and about a discount and a sale, we start talking about why I want to be here in the first place. An emotional reason, not just a rational reason. And that's where you start to see success.
Colin True
00:43:39.150 - 00:43:56.250
And we're, and we're saying something's maybe, maybe it sounds like we're saying something's easy, easy when it's not like, I mean this is.
But there are more resources than ever to kind of, you know, whether it's SEO or maybe there's a little marketing campaign, maybe it's a brand kind of getting your understanding what the value is of your store and how do you communicate that outward to attract just time.
Producer Dave
00:43:56.250 - 00:43:57.850
And money, Colin, I mean, what's the problem?
Colin True
00:43:57.850 - 00:43:59.290
It's time and money, everybody.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:00.890 - 00:44:58.820
I think the other thing that I think some retail stores and brands actually make the mistake of thinking is, oh, I've got to spend all this money producing all this high end advertising and video and all this other stuff in order to power my social media. I need a graphic designer, I need a videographer. Like, no, no, no, you need a phone. That's what you need.
A phone and a human and maybe a product, right? And actually one of the great ways to break down some of those Barri casual folks is just doing really straightforward social.
Take some of your store associates, have them goof around, have them talk about their favorite product. Just, just be people in social media because that's what social media is.
And if you look like you're endemic to the platform and just doing stuff and using whatever the editor is and whatever the captioning is, that's in, you know, TikTok or that's in Instagram. Reels, just use that and. And don't worry about being overproduced or not professional quote unquote. Just get it out there, there.
Colin True
00:44:59.780 - 00:45:37.780
And the brands need to help to you guys point as well, right?
I mean, Owen, we talked about it last week about the brand we saw at Goa with doing exactly what you just described of like the glass of wine with the like super soft tagline at the bottom of it. And it's like, is that what you think is going to help get the casuals into these people's stores who are coming to meet with you at this show?
Like, wrong way to go here, guys.
And so, I mean, I guess that's ultimately what I was kind of bristling at or having a tough time sort of connecting is if I'm sitting in the audience hearing the what do I do with that information, right? And say, hey, you should be having these people shop in your stores. I'm like, well, I'm not opposed to it, right? Like, come shop at my store.
But how do you kind of get from point A to point B? And I think, I think we just did that.
Producer Dave
00:45:37.780 - 00:45:40.740
It's a wine in an algine bottle. You've got it right there.
Colin True
00:45:41.300 - 00:46:03.880
That would have been better than what we saw. That actually would have been more authentic to the space if it had been an algine bottle. All right.
Today's episode of the Rock Fight was presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking. And we want to help them by uncommon covering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including the following.
Because getting into hiking, it means you get to buy a headlamp. Who doesn't love a headlamp?
Eoin Comerford
00:46:03.880 - 00:46:08.400
Especially one that's voice activated and that blinds you when you're in the middle of a podcast.
Colin True
00:46:08.400 - 00:46:13.440
It's right here. I'm afraid to use it since that time with Shantae.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:13.440 - 00:46:14.080
That's awesome.
Colin True
00:46:14.720 - 00:47:24.450
Number two, you get to say we crushed it without a PowerPoint involved. Number three, you learn that nature is both majestic and low key is trying to kill you. And number four, hiking means the Bridger Boot collection.
The Bridger Ridge is here to help you smooth out the rough trails in front of you with enhanced stability and protection. The Bridger Ridge is Oboz's first boot with Cortex. So bring on the smiles and the miles in the Bridger Ridge.
And if you find yourself in or near Townsend, Massachusetts, be sure to stop into Evans on the Common to pick up your very own pair of Bridger Ridges. And then head north for 30 minutes. To break those puppies in. Unpack monadnock.
And this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana, certified B Corp. 6 million tree planter and inhabitant of the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem.
Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking. All right, for the parting shot today, we're gonna do a little outdoor industry quiz.
So I'm gonna read Owen and Dave an outdoor industry news story. And you guys have to tell me what year you think that this news story came out.
Producer Dave
00:47:25.250 - 00:47:25.890
Oh, great.
Colin True
00:47:26.290 - 00:47:27.010
Are we ready?
Eoin Comerford
00:47:27.170 - 00:47:27.650
Ready.
Colin True
00:47:28.050 - 00:47:34.130
And we had some fun at Merrill's expense at Switchback, and we're gonna do it again right now. All right, here we go. So here it is.
Producer Dave
00:47:34.130 - 00:47:35.930
Sorry, Meryl, have to share a statement.
Colin True
00:47:35.930 - 00:48:19.420
But the headline is. Headline is changes in attitude. And it's just a little blurb. It says spend a day at Merrill, as one of our reporters did recently.
And it's evident there is a new attitude. In light of recent changes, it's obvious the brakes have been put on the expansion and the focus is on getting back to Merrill's roots.
SKUs have been trimmed by 50%. The spring model lineup is small and specific.
The focus is on day hiking, backpacking, technical sandals, and an interesting new approach to footwear.
There's a tangible feeling that the Merrell team, from top to bottom, is enthused about this new direction and is more attuned to the needs of specialty retail. Gentlemen, what year was this story written?
Eoin Comerford
00:48:20.460 - 00:48:38.070
Well, obviously this is an amazing one because it could have been written probably the actual yesterday. Yesterday? More like, I would say, like when Chris Huffnagel first came into CEO role. So maybe two years ago, I would say it would have been perfect.
Colin True
00:48:38.150 - 00:48:42.150
Yeah, yeah, you're right. When there was a recent leadership change or something like that, right? Yeah, exactly. Yes.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:42.150 - 00:48:51.532
But obviously that's not how we're going to play the game here. It could be, could be. But I'm going to go with 2012.
Colin True
00:48:51.768 - 00:49:04.510
2012. Okay. Do you have a month? Do you have a guess on month? Because if maybe you get the month right, you know, you get partial credit.
March, March 2012 from Owen. Dave, do you have an opinion? Do you have a guess?
Producer Dave
00:49:04.990 - 00:49:06.990
I'm going to go 1998.
Colin True
00:49:08.030 - 00:49:08.950
Give him a month.
Producer Dave
00:49:08.950 - 00:49:15.070
No, of course not. And in the future, we need to do this. You need to give us four dates to choose from.
Colin True
00:49:15.470 - 00:49:16.430
Oh, that's a good idea.
Producer Dave
00:49:16.430 - 00:49:16.670
Right?
Colin True
00:49:16.670 - 00:49:20.630
This is too open ended. That's fine. Okay, yeah, yeah, good point. For the first time, though.
Producer Dave
00:49:20.630 - 00:49:21.070
Yeah.
Colin True
00:49:22.430 - 00:49:37.480
Prices. Well, actually, I don't know if you could go prices. Right. Rules for the winner here. The winner, I guess, is Dave. He's the closest.
This was printed in July 1995. So the lesson here, everybody is the more things change, the more they stay.
Producer Dave
00:49:38.120 - 00:49:41.240
No kidding. Oh, my gosh.
Colin True
00:49:41.320 - 00:49:51.700
I went searching for this and that was just too. I mean, no offense to Mary. You know, this is. There's a million of these stories, but, like, wow. Like just the verbiage even.
It was like, this is something. Something you could really read. Very modern.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:52.580 - 00:49:56.020
Cutting the SKUs down 50%. It's like, yeah.
Colin True
00:49:56.020 - 00:49:57.540
Focus on specialty retail.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:58.420 - 00:49:59.780
That's hilarious.
Producer Dave
00:49:59.860 - 00:50:07.460
No, I. I think this just. Just like you said, highlights the universality of this issue. So anyway, go ahead, Colin.
Colin True
00:50:08.420 - 00:50:08.980
What's that?
Producer Dave
00:50:08.980 - 00:50:09.740
That's it? That's it.
Colin True
00:50:09.740 - 00:50:10.740
Just one. That's all I got.
Producer Dave
00:50:10.740 - 00:50:12.420
That's. I thought we had more.
Colin True
00:50:12.900 - 00:50:17.860
No, no, no. I just pulled one out for last minute back. Yeah, that was fun. We should do that again.
Producer Dave
00:50:18.050 - 00:50:18.450
Is good.
Colin True
00:50:18.610 - 00:50:22.290
This is all right. We'll do that again. Any parting shots from you guys? Are you guys good today?
Eoin Comerford
00:50:23.330 - 00:50:25.650
I'm good. I need to go and go and take a nap.
Colin True
00:50:27.010 - 00:50:28.930
Gotta finish your deck is what you need to do.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:29.010 - 00:50:30.770
I'm so close. So close.
Colin True
00:50:31.970 - 00:50:50.780
All right, that's the show. We want your emails, everybody. Send them to myrockfight gmail dot com. The Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight llc.
Today's episode was produced by producer David Karstad. Art direction provided by this that Sarah Gensert for Owen Comerford. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And Chris Da makes us here.
He's gonna sing the Rock Fight song.
Producer Dave
00:50:50.780 - 00:50:52.620
Colin. Before Chris to make takes us out.
Colin True
00:50:52.620 - 00:50:53.020
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:50:53.820 - 00:50:57.780
Write your congressperson email call, do it.
Colin True
00:50:57.780 - 00:51:00.700
Now and then do it again.
Producer Dave
00:51:00.700 - 00:51:03.340
Yep. Why would they do that for? What's the reason?
Colin True
00:51:04.140 - 00:51:07.900
Because our public lands are on the verge of being obliterated.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:08.460 - 00:51:09.540
Well, that'll work to an.
Colin True
00:51:09.540 - 00:51:11.580
To an extent that we have never seen before.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:12.220 - 00:51:19.880
Yeah. Being sold come under us like millions and million billions of acres just sold to pay for tax cuts.
Colin True
00:51:20.680 - 00:51:24.680
Things you never thought could ever be touched are on the table.
Producer Dave
00:51:24.680 - 00:51:26.440
Yeah. So. Okay. Thank you.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:26.520 - 00:51:33.480
Especially. Especially if you are in a western state. Yes, yes, you. Please, please.
Colin True
00:51:33.720 - 00:51:41.040
Utah, Nevada, Montana, Idaho. Please. And if you're in other states, call the people in those states.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:41.040 - 00:51:44.200
If you've got friends in those states, make sure that they're calling. Yes.
Colin True
00:51:45.070 - 00:51:50.230
Spend the weekend calling is what we're saying. So thank you. All right, here's the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:51:50.230 - 00:52:45.810
Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Where we speak our truth? Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree?
We talk about human powered outdoor activity activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews? Ideas that aim for the head? This is where we speak our truth? This is where we speak our truth? Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight?
Welcome to the rock flight? Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Like rock fight? Rock light, Rock light? Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight.
Producer Dave
00:52:48.130 - 00:52:50.770
Rock fight.
