Engineered For Whatever: Breaking Down Columbia's New Campaign
- colin7931
- Aug 11
- 37 min read
Today on the show Colin, outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford, and brand/creative expert Producer Dave hit the following topics!
Tariff Watch 2025! After week of surveys, brand reports, and new tariff percentages it is time to check in on the latest tariff situation. (05:32)
ThredUp's recently earnings report shows that secondhand continues to be an opportunity that everyone should be leaning into. (16:53)
The Rock Fight Lightning Round! The fastest 3 minutes in outdoor industry news. This weeks topics: Altra's impressive growth, Saucony's even more impressive growth, Reebok sale rumors, and Emerald Expositions overall flat earnings. (22:29)
Columbia launches it's new brand campaign: Engineered For Whatever. A new video and a new stance from Columbia was the buzz of the outdoor industry last week. We take a look at what the brand is trying to do, determine if they were successful, and discuss the backlash. (28:00)
For The Parting Shot, Colin ponders what you give up when you pursue big outdoor goals. (42:54)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:44.640
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and today we have the latest from Tariff Watch 2025, as well as our reaction to Columbia's new brand campaign. But before we get to that, tomorrow, Doug Schnitzbahn opens the container like he always does on Tuesday.
His guest this week, environmental journalist Sophie Benson. This is maybe my favorite open container yet, and I've heard them all come.
Come back to the Rock Fight this Wednesday when I'll be joined by Shantay Salibair to chat about the latest headlines that come out of the outdoor adventure community. And lastly, be sure to subscribe to News from the Front the Rock Fight's weekly newsletter. Head to Rock Fight Co and sign up today and stick around.
We'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:44.640 - 00:00:48.440
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:50.280 - 00:02:11.250
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Chris DeMakes
00:02:11.410 - 00:02:21.070
Be a Shop Floor Hero. Endeavor's here to stay Shop Floor Hero SALTU is the way hey.
Colin True
00:02:24.110 - 00:03:13.500
Hey everyone. Before we keep going here, I need to tell you about our teammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, if you run an outdoor, an endurance or an active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR and digital marketing belay partner or drinking buddy than Darby. They can help your business reach new heights and they Might just keep you from falling on your ass.
Since we started working with Darby, more and more people. And this is an important point now. Guys, I want you to hear me on this.
More and more people have reached out to us here at the Rock fight because of that messaging. Look, guys, I'm dead serious. If they can help us, they can help anybody. Hit them up@darbycommunications.com do it today. All right?
I'm here with my fellow potential losers for the top outdoor brand draft producer Dave and the consigliere Owen Comerford. Guys, Shantae is on the verge of winning two drafts in a row. I think she must be stopped. This is not. I'm not okay with where this is going.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:13.500 - 00:03:37.760
Clearly. Clearly. I think, uh, you know, we're coming out Monday morning. I think we still have maybe a day left where.
Where people can really have their voices heard in this really highly important, potentially industry setting vote. So please get out there and vote for the best team. Mine, obviously. Um, and. And yes, Shantae must be stopped.
Colin True
00:03:38.160 - 00:03:46.880
The Trump administration just announced that the winners of this draft are exempt from tariffs. I think is what. Is what's gonna happen. So, Dave, you're really letting your team down.
Producer Dave
00:03:47.420 - 00:04:01.900
I think we'll see how long that lasts. Besides, Colin, haven't we learned bigger isn't always better? It's about quality. It's about refined taste. I'm thinking we're doing just fine.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:02.700 - 00:04:10.140
Okay, you keep telling yourself that. Dave and Colin, how can people vote for this incredible and important award?
Colin True
00:04:10.620 - 00:04:22.679
You head to Rockvight Co. You'll see it on the homepage. Click the link. Vote here and vote for Collins Team is exactly what you do. That's the instructions. Team. Just not Shantae's team.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:22.919 - 00:04:36.039
Just anything but Shantae's team. And just in case, you know, you wanted to know, my team is Nemo, Osprey, Fjallraven, Hoka, and Sea to Summit. So do we need to say any more?
Colin True
00:04:36.039 - 00:04:37.159
Do we need to say more?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:37.239 - 00:04:37.639
Yes.
Colin True
00:04:37.639 - 00:04:44.519
Shantay then also went on and kind of served, you know, Doug and I on our outdoor playlist too. So, I mean, she's just kind of ruling everything these days.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:44.839 - 00:04:55.150
Well, that was your. The outdoor playlist on the. Yeah. So I have some notes. First of all, Doug and Shantae, way too similar. You needed a third voice on there.
Colin True
00:04:55.150 - 00:04:56.510
Like, I agree with that.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:57.710 - 00:05:17.380
Who would have added? Clearly some huge misses. Nine Inch Nails doesn't even get a mention. At least Rage against the Machine got a slight mention from you, Colin. Sublime.
No mention. I mean there's so many great bands that weren't even talked about in, in, in the process. Right. Nirvana.
Colin True
00:05:18.420 - 00:05:19.460
It's a stacked field.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:19.460 - 00:05:21.460
Yeah. No. So anywho.
Colin True
00:05:21.460 - 00:05:26.020
Yeah, well, Doug mentioned Nirvana at the end. I don't mind. Nirvana's been talked about enough there.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:26.340 - 00:05:26.740
Fair.
Producer Dave
00:05:27.140 - 00:05:29.460
I don't think that was the criteria though. Colin.
Colin True
00:05:30.180 - 00:05:47.400
We'll go back and listen to that episode too.
But today the opening shot is presented by the ultimate comfort of more than 30amazingly crafted and diverse styles from Lem's footwear, including the primal zen head to Lem Shoes.com the to learn more. And guys, we're back. We're back with Tariff Watch 2025.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:48.040 - 00:05:56.040
Wow. So we, we I, I think the sound effect for Tariff Watch, it should just be some like huge sigh, just.
Colin True
00:05:56.040 - 00:06:02.120
You know, a low, a low moan. Tariff Watch 2025 still terrifying.
Producer Dave
00:06:02.520 - 00:06:03.320
Terrifying.
Colin True
00:06:04.200 - 00:06:45.450
Terrifying. Oh, there you go. We're getting, you know, spooky season's right around the corner. We could probably do something for that.
So per SGB, a new study has revealed that 73% of US retail companies have experienced profit losses due to the tariff impact. So far, 90% of those surveyed are quote, very concerned about the impact yet to come, with a third of them identifying as extremely concerned.
In addition to the latest round of announced tariffs that went into effect last week on August 7th, this is obviously the story of the year and it's time for our outdoor industry insider to get into the latest. Owen, you posted a tariff update on LinkedIn this past week. Let's start with the numbers. I guess.
What's the latest behind that 73% retailer number reported in the survey?
Eoin Comerford
00:06:45.850 - 00:07:10.560
The first thing I think to understand is that that was a general retail, right? So not just outdoor. And I think the 73% is mainly retailers selling their own products, right. As opposed to selling other brands.
And I think a lot have absorbed the kind of 10% ish tariff that most have impact faced so far. A lot of that has been absorbed by the retailers, which is what a.
Colin True
00:07:10.560 - 00:07:12.960
Lot of people thought was going where we were going to land in all this.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:13.120 - 00:08:42.300
So maybe they passed on, you know, they passed on a little bit to the consumer. They've absorbed a little bit themselves. But in absorbing that hit, it's really hit hit their bottom line. And I think that's the main issue.
And you know, they've been absorbing it because a it has been quote unquote, only 10%. It's still a lot, but only 10%. So that was, I think, handleable a little bit.
And also I think there is continued concern that the customer is pretty fragile. So they don't want to, they didn't want to increase prices too much.
We've got record credit card debt for example, but also because of the difficulties in executing price changes because most of that product already had hang tags on it coming over from Asia with the old price. So they were kind of stuck with it. So they've taken a hit there.
But yeah, the other folks that are seeing profit hits here are because of the reduced sales. Right.
And we're seeing that in a lot of the public company outdoor results that have come out for the second quarter where whether it's Deckers or Columbia or VF Corp.
Et cetera, what they're all seeing is actually the international markets are doing pretty well, but they're really being pulled down by the US Market. And what's the difference between the international retail and US Retail tariffs? And so it's a continuing drum beat of US Market right now is tough.
Colin True
00:08:44.220 - 00:09:04.140
Well, and the situation moving from the retail to the brand side isn't hurting just one aspect of our industry. Right. But both big and small brands. What has been the fallout? We'll talk about both, but let's start with emerging brands.
What's been the fallout on emerging brands? You mentioned on a post last week about a founder who's. Well, I'll let you explain it. The 50% steel tariff that you were talking about there.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:04.380 - 00:11:05.350
Yeah, so this was the founder and she's producing some stainless steel products out of China. And that, that section 232 tariff which had been ratcheted up to 25% on all steel and aluminum imports then got ratcheted up again to 50%.
And that is coming out of China. That's on top of the 20% fentanyl tariffs. So what had been a 2% tariff going into this year for that founder is now 72%.
These are game changing numbers when you're already in a startup environment where cash is tight and profitability is tight. So you know, so you know, it's like does she raise prices? You know, it blows up, it blows up the, the hotel wholesale pricing model.
I mean it really, really is problematic. But then also we're seeing, you know, we're hearing stories of US based manufacturers.
There was a story about a US based knife manufacturer who voted for Trump, you know, was, it was all about it and now is being hit by the, the 50% increases in steel costs which are his main raw material. And so he's like, what the hell? I voted for you and now I voted for you for U.S. manufacturing, and you're screwing me.
So it's really across the board for, for these, you know, for these, these smaller brands.
The other thing that smaller brands struggle with is typically the moqs minimum order quantities are much lower in China than they are in, let's say, Vietnam or Cambodia.
And so, you know, people are saying, oh, just move it to Vietnam where the tariffs are only 20%, but they can't do it because they just don't have the volume to do it. So they're stuck, they're stuck in China, they're stuck with 30%, which may be going back up again. Who knows?
We're recording this on Friday the 8th, so unless things change over the weekends, we're still at 30%.
Colin True
00:11:06.150 - 00:11:36.580
I want to ask about the bigger guys, but one thing I noticed consistently in your posts, and not to get catty, but there's some people who show up there who just be like, ah, it's no big deal. Guys like you. Just, all you need to do is just don't worry about.
There's literally like, just don't worry about it posters showing up in your comments. I mean, and then, then I go over and read, I think that was in Gear Junkie, the article about the one you described that the knife manufacturer.
It's like, this guy's going to go out of business. Like, you know, like, do you really want to say to that guy, hey, don't worry about. Just raise your price. Whatever you needed to do.
I mean, whatever you need it to be. I mean, how do you react to that?
Eoin Comerford
00:11:37.380 - 00:12:19.400
It's, it's so insensitive to what's really happening on the ground with these brands.
I'm not sure if it is just purely Pollyanna ish or, you know, you are a Trump supporter and therefore you are going to stand up for whatever the President does die on the Hill. Exactly.
Or if you truly believe in tariffs and that they will, you know, return U.S. manufacturing, which they won't in their current form, they are damaging US Manufacturing. We have seen US Manufacturing volumes or the US Manufacturing index drop basically every month since Trump has been in office.
So, yeah, this is not the answer.
Colin True
00:12:19.880 - 00:12:30.520
I don't know. I saw Tim Cook in the oval office commit $100 billion to U.S. manufacturing. Do you think that ever actually happens?
I think that's just like, yeah, Donnie, don't worry, we're going to do it, but we're never really going to do this.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:30.840 - 00:12:43.460
So many of Those numbers that get thrown around never happen. They either never happen or they already going to happen anyway. Right, right, right. I mean that it's all kabuki theater. It's just ridiculous.
Colin True
00:12:44.580 - 00:12:52.580
All right, so what about the big guys? Because Columbia was in the news on this week regardless of the thing we're going to talk about in a second.
They were also in the news about on the tariff front as well.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:52.580 - 00:13:24.720
Yeah. And they were, you know, I would say not typically sort of the, the bleeding heart side of the outdoor industry.
And they were all about like tariffs are a effing disaster. They're going to cost them 35 to 40 million in 2025. Just in tariffs. Right, Just the tariff impact. And that's based upon the 10% rate. Right.
That's before we even talk about what these new rates that are going into effect are going to, are going to mean. And they're basically saying and 2026 is going to be rough. And I would have to agree with them.
Colin True
00:13:24.800 - 00:14:04.900
I do want to go back to, and we've definitely referenced this before but like this was supposed to be the comeback year for the industry. I mean go back to some early January episodes with, you know, the US on here and you're like, oh man, it's going to be great.
You know, inventory's down, like we're ready to go, we're ready to come back. And instead we're dealing with perhaps the biggest self inflicted wound we've ever seen. So you know, congrats to Lulu and backcountry.
You're no longer number one and two on the list of self inflicted wounds. But fast forward a year from now, I mean, what do you think we're going to be dealing with?
I mean we, we understand like this is going to slowly get worse. Right.
In the coming seasons and months if this stays where it is now, which it's possible it doesn't, but if it does, what do you think we're going to be dealing with a year from now?
Eoin Comerford
00:14:05.690 - 00:15:55.900
The first thing is the price increases aren't really going to hit as much this fall a little bit, but it's mainly going to be in spring because that summer reprieve meant that really almost all of the fall shipments that left the port before August 7th won't face these big increases. So most brands like the Columbias are basically absorbing the 10ish percent that they've been hit with. Right.
Unless you're out of China or steel or whatever. But generally speaking, most are absorbing right now. So they're going to have Plenty of time to plan their big price increases for spring.
So that's the first thing. But obviously they're not going to be able to push all of these massive increases onto the consumer.
So they're going to have to slash costs elsewhere to make up for the tariff impacts. And where are they going to slash?
They're going to slash staffing, they're going to slash marketing, they're going to slash brand building, all those other things that aren't related to cost. So it's going to be. I'm sorry, but I just don't see how it's going to be a great time to be in the outdoor industry from that perspective.
Also, the rest of the economy probably won't be in great shape. They'll be really rolling into this year. So you're going to have these increasing prices that are facing just weaker overall demand in the market.
So that's not going to help. And then I think on top of that, you're going to have a lot of retailer uncertainty about what the hell is going on, what will go on.
So in the face of uncertainty, retailers are going to pull back on their open to buys, pull back on preseason orders. And so brands are going to be left going into spring of next year with what do I order, right?
Do I order to my book, do I order to or do I order a little bit more and hopefully can sell in or do I just basically bake in, down, whatever, down 10%. So it's a really tough calculus right now for the hydro brands.
Producer Dave
00:15:56.620 - 00:16:40.250
I think you hit on it that the tariff is really just the tip of the iceberg that gets the attention when you take the job market and the consumer confidence elements pieces and then throw on the massive reductions to the federal workforce which are its own uniquely, I think detrimental to the outdoor industry because of the interior departments, the parks, all of that, all of that is related tangentially to the outdoor industry. So those hit our industry a bit harder than others.
And so when you put all those together, it does seem like you've got kind of a negative gravity pulling in the other direction, maybe even more important than the tariffs themselves.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:41.530 - 00:16:49.050
Don't worry, Dave. We're going to get people into the right places to tell the right numbers. So it'll be fine.
Producer Dave
00:16:49.370 - 00:16:53.210
Oh yeah, right, right. Trust those numbers.
Colin True
00:16:53.370 - 00:17:50.809
Well, this does lead in kind of to our next story because also per sgb, they reported last week shares of online reseller thredup posted a 14% increase on Monday of last week. And I thought the telling quote in the article was this.
The quote was, and unlike many other companies that are trying to find their way through the tariff jungle these days, Thredup was able to provide solid guidance by the quarter for the rest of the year.
So Owen, you know, secondhand and resale is something that brands and retailers should be focused on and we've talked about that a lot in various contexts on the show.
But if you could put on your CEO hat for a minute, given the uncertainty that tariffs are creating, how would you move quickly to diversify what you would do and put more emphasis on secondhand? Right. So we're saying that it's going to be a year and over the course of next year things are going to be rough.
Let's look at it from both the brand and retail perspective, starting with the brand. So what can a brand do now to create secondhand opportunities to help alleviate first run tariff pressure?
Eoin Comerford
00:17:51.769 - 00:18:12.749
I think the first thing is, I mean obviously if you don't have a used gear model, establish one. But I think most brands now have something, but in many cases it's sort of hidden away. Right?
It's this, you know, maybe it's a peer to peer thing but you know, it's in some far flung corner of their website and they just talk about it for like a brand building email once a season. Right? That's it.
Colin True
00:18:12.749 - 00:18:13.110
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:14.150 - 00:20:05.300
So really it's about integrating it into your, into Your, into your PDPs, your product display pages. So that when the consumer is shopping on your site and they're shopping for the XYZ jacket, they can see, oh yeah, I can get it new for this.
But hey, I've got, there's three that are, that are used and I can see the quality, whatever, whatever. And I can and buy that product.
Now what usually stands in the way of that is the people running the DTC site saying, well, I can't have them cannibalizing the sales of my new product. I'm under enough pressure to sell this stuff. Why would I want to be trying to sell this used gear here as well?
And I think what brands don't realize is that that's a different buyer. Right. The person that's going to buy the used stuff was never going to buy the new one.
And actually the people that buy the new stuff will see that you're selling and supporting used and be more likely to buy new. Right. So it's actually a win win if you co merchandise these things together. So that would be the first thing.
The second thing is even with that, even with doing that co merchandising. A lot of brands actually have more used.
If they start a used gear program with their consumers, they've got more used gear from that and from their own unsalable returns than they can actually get through. And so then they should be looking, you know, what is the best way to maximize the market for those products to sort of support the price of used.
And the best way to do that is actually sell it to your best retail partners.
So if you've got some great specialty retailers, say hey, you know, actually have a conduit for them because they're the ones taking the lead within our industry in used gear with used gear shops in specialty stores or partner with a marketplace like a gear trade again that has that used gear customer to move through that product and maximize the return on that inventory. So I think those would be the two big things for brands.
Colin True
00:20:05.700 - 00:20:11.700
And I know we've talked about second hand at retail quite a bit over the past few months, but what about the retailers? What would you recommend there?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:12.900 - 00:21:23.100
If you don't have a used gear section in your physical retail store, I would absolutely look to add one. And you can source that inventory from a bunch of different places. One is your own returns is one option.
The other is again working with your brands to see if they have product that you can source. It's a great way to get off price or low price product to really have for your customer.
And then the third is a consignment shop, which a consignment shop is a great kind of community builder because people are bringing, they're coming in to bring in their goods, they're coming in then to buy and shop. And it's just a good sort of virtuous cycle thing to do. And it becomes a driver, right?
It becomes a driver, it becomes an on ramp to the outdoors for people who can't afford the new stuff. And it also just differentiates you from the big box guys that are out there.
From what I've seen, this is something in looking at some of the G O N numbers that's continuing to grow. I think roughly a quarter of GOA members already have some kind of used gear section and I think many more are considering adding.
Colin True
00:21:24.430 - 00:21:42.670
Yeah, and no one here is suggesting that this would be easy either on the brand or retail front. But it does feel like we're kind of in like it's like wartime right now. Like every resource on the table.
What do we do to kind of help alleviate any pressure that you're under as we are going through those Tariff situations. I thought it was a worthy thing to kind of bring up. Dave, anything on.
Producer Dave
00:21:42.990 - 00:22:21.150
No, no, I. Again, this is the inevitable march to trends that are already in play.
It's just, you know, if anything, it's going to accelerate them and I think that's probably a good thing. So.
So brands have to be pretty good that have started on this, right, that five years ago kind of started getting behind it and starting pushing those programs.
And we might have even criticized them the pace of not going fast enough, you know, because this also gets into the whole recycled, repurposed, circular discussion as well. So if these can kind of dovetail together, it might actually have a positive impact.
It's not going to replace any, you know, hole in the P and L, but it's still good for the.
Colin True
00:22:21.230 - 00:22:29.070
We come out of this in a somewhat decent spot. This is something you're going to want to have set up anyway, right? So, hey, no time like the present. Let's get moving, you know.
Chris DeMakes
00:22:33.070 - 00:22:34.350
Lightning round.
Colin True
00:22:36.590 - 00:22:39.150
All right, guys. Well, it's time for the lightning round. Are we ready?
Eoin Comerford
00:22:39.390 - 00:22:41.310
Okay, let's do it.
Colin True
00:22:41.790 - 00:23:16.450
All right. First up in the lightning round, congrats to Ultra.
After a quarter which they posted an impressive 20% growth, putting them on track to to exceed $250 million in revenue compared to the 60 million they were doing when VF acquired them in 2018. Ultra also launched an ad campaign called Experience. A new high running is dope.
So, Dave, with Topo taking up more shelf space at specialty Hokia looking, they look pretty impervious in both the trail and lifestyle markets. And up and comers like Norda and Speedland gaining momentum. Looking at these numbers and the brand positioning, are we underestimating Ultra?
Eoin Comerford
00:23:17.330 - 00:23:18.010
Who's we?
Producer Dave
00:23:18.010 - 00:23:23.570
Colin, I believe that's your own Mia Culpa there. Some of us have never underestimated.
Colin True
00:23:23.810 - 00:23:33.370
I've won Ultra more Ultras than anyone. Maybe, maybe I love Ultra, but we don't talk about them as much compared to these other brands.
Producer Dave
00:23:33.370 - 00:23:40.210
We don't. They're just to that point. There's a lot of other stories going around and they just kind of continue to fill that. That space.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:40.290 - 00:23:40.850
For sure.
Producer Dave
00:23:41.010 - 00:24:21.080
You know, part of it could be their color palettes. They kind of blend right in and so you forget that they're there. But no, look, I think they're a great. I think they're a great product.
I think their brand has a core element to it that's. I mean, again, that's priceless, you know, new campaign. I get it. It's a little you know, it's a pun. Use a pun, go to jail. The runner's high.
Of all the things you could pick on, that's what they chose to build. And it's in a, a, in a effort to be edgy again, I, I applaud all of that. I applaud the tri positioning. Trying to have some fun. No problem.
Don't get in the way of that. But that just seems a little bit like, meh.
Colin True
00:24:21.160 - 00:24:22.680
But there's doing something right over there.
Producer Dave
00:24:22.680 - 00:24:33.200
Oh, totally right. Again, we need. We need energy and we need. We need kind of fun. So that's. To me, that's okay.
It's just, again, of all the ways you could do it, that just felt a little safe.
Colin True
00:24:33.200 - 00:24:47.480
All right, next up in the lightning round, According to Wolverine's Q2 results, Saucony's Q2 sales were up 40%.
So, Owen, with all the talk about trail running, is this a sign that road running is coming back to reclaim its top, its place at the top of the running pyramid?
Eoin Comerford
00:24:47.880 - 00:24:56.680
Well, let's be honest, right? Road running has always been at the top of the running pyramid. We just happen to talk just endlessly about trail running on this podcast.
Producer Dave
00:24:57.960 - 00:25:03.920
I would say it's at the top and the base of the pyramid. And trail running is this. Got this little slice in the middle.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:04.080 - 00:25:15.600
Exactly. Yes. And that's just it, right? The reality is that there, it's.
This is more about the growing interest in wearing running shoes than running in running shoes. That's what this is all about.
Colin True
00:25:15.840 - 00:25:36.250
All right, next up, last week, Authentic Brands squashed rumors that had been swirling that Authentic was either going to sell or already had sold athletic brand Reebok to Onta Sports. I should say. Arteryx Owner, Onta Sports Dave, is this the rare case of a brand being crushingly disappointed when they weren't sold?
Going from Authentic to Anta would certainly have been an upgrade for Reebok.
Producer Dave
00:25:36.650 - 00:25:59.480
Yeah, you would definitely think so.
ANTA has done a good job with their portfolio and, you know, again, Reebok has just been so passed around and beaten up, but, you know, it still, I think, has definite potential to reassert itself on the stage in if properly positioned and managed, no doubt.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:00.040 - 00:26:28.930
I think actually this would have made a ton of sense. I mean, they would have been able to leverage anta's massive production and distribution scale in China, which would be a huge unlock for them.
Plus, ANTA is trying to break into the US market, which, as we know, is not easy even for a billions, multi billion dollar brand like Anta. What if they were to do that but under the Reebok brand? So, you know, I don't know. This thing may not be dead yet. We'll see.
Colin True
00:26:29.250 - 00:26:52.490
All right, last lightning round topic in their earnings report. Last week, Emerald Expositions, owner of trade shows like outdoor retailer Overland Expo and Surf Expo reported a 22% increase in revenue.
That increase, however, was driven almost entirely by acquisitions with their organic revenue being relatively flat.
Oh, and given the growth growth of shows like Overland Expo, is it possible that the struggles of outdoor retailer is what kept those numbers from climbing?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:52.490 - 00:27:29.260
I think a bigger factor really was that they actually discontinued 28 smaller or unprofitable events over the past year.
I don't think that the revenues from or this year were dramatically different from 2024 and probably just not enough impact to drive overall Emerald because they have 142 events, 16 media properties. So yeah, I don't think or was really big enough to push things much one way or the other.
I mean it used to be, I mean it used to definitely be one of their flagship shows, but not in its current format.
Colin True
00:27:30.620 - 00:28:20.190
All right, today's lightning round on the rock fight is brought to you by Lem's Shoes. Are you looking for shoes that offer both long lasting durability and all day comfort? Well, look no further than Lemon.
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All right, let's move into today's main topic, which is presented by Oboz, the pride of Bozeman, Montana, also the cupid of the outdoor world.
So last week, taking a break from suing other similarly named entities, Columbia Sportswear released a new brand campaign called Engineered for Whatever. And the response has been, well, let's say, let's say it's been special.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:21.070 - 00:28:23.470
Yeah, it's been great. I love it.
Colin True
00:28:23.790 - 00:28:29.710
It was a busy week. There was a lot of stuff we could be talking about today and this definitely felt like the runaway story of the week.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:30.190 - 00:28:30.670
Yeah.
Colin True
00:28:30.750 - 00:28:36.150
So Owen, you've predicted that Columbia would unleash a hiking focused campaign in 2025. Is this what you meant?
Eoin Comerford
00:28:36.150 - 00:28:53.450
Of course this is exactly what I meant. Yes.
No, I mean, I knew when they brought in, you know, Adam And Eve, which is, which is definitely kind of a hip and edgy sort of agency out of London. I believe that it would be a little different.
Colin True
00:28:54.490 - 00:28:54.970
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:54.970 - 00:29:24.980
Did I predict it would be this different? No, I did not. But I, you know, it's not entirely my cup of tea, I would say, but, but I'm not the target audience.
I mean, you look at the reaction on Instagram and like, I've never seen so many fire emojis. It is, you know, the, the, the. I think the target audience for this really actually likes it.
It's the old farts, like, you know, like us and the industry curmudgeons that are like, ow, you know, we, this is.
Colin True
00:29:24.980 - 00:29:27.460
And some of those old farts are pretty young too, by the way.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:29.460 - 00:29:29.940
Yeah.
Colin True
00:29:30.660 - 00:29:35.500
So, Dave, you know this. I think you could take a win though, Owen, because there's hiking in there. There's definitely, I think it was part of it.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:35.500 - 00:29:36.580
Oh, I'm planning on.
Producer Dave
00:29:36.580 - 00:29:37.300
And venom.
Colin True
00:29:38.400 - 00:29:38.640
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:38.880 - 00:29:39.920
I'm planning and take it.
Colin True
00:29:39.920 - 00:30:00.000
I mean, Dave, this is obviously going to be a candidate for our recently launched segment that we're calling the Brief, where you're going to deep dive into brands and their messaging efforts. But there's a little research that goes into that. So stay tuned everybody. You're going to get the producer, Dave, deep dive on this eventually.
This one just deserves that initial reaction, though. So how would you, again, Brand guy, how would you summarize what Columbia is trying to do here?
Producer Dave
00:30:01.200 - 00:31:47.940
Well, I think you have to be, you have to be pointed in its strategy.
It's clearly not a brand overarching brand umbrella for every demographic and psychographic that Colombia has traditionally reached or currently reaches. It is absolutely an over the horizon. This is where we're going and this is who we're talking to. And it doesn't look like the brand now.
So if that's what you're expecting, you will be disappointed. I trust that their media buys will be targeted enough that they'll be able to segment that.
I know just over the past few days they've had a heavy presence on Netflix and Hulu and so they're doing some heavy media buy behind this. Right. So that's the thing too about a Columbia. We see it on LinkedIn or you see it kind of pass through Instagram.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of really where the power of it being presented is. It's going to be on the streaming platforms, it's going to be out there living in the world.
And that's where like you said this audience is going to get it and they're going to see it and I'm all for it. It's a big swing. It is to me. There's, you know, look, there's the ad guy in me that looks at that and goes, well, it's, it's very, it's very British.
You know, it's got this very hit of British advertising sensibility to it, which I personally like. It's got the dark humor. It's just got the, you know.
Okay, like you said, it's definitely got an agency feel that's outside of the traditional outdoor norm. Awesome. Because I don't think the consumer cares anything about that.
You know, when you're a global brand, like a, a Columbia, you've got to look to where you put your what, where you build your creative and how can you get the most out of it.
Colin True
00:31:48.260 - 00:31:48.660
Right.
Producer Dave
00:31:48.660 - 00:32:47.700
So in terms of their European business, that could make sense, having that little tone to it. So I think that's a, it's a well, well, well worn path. Adidas did the same thing in the 90s when they were re kind of hashing their, their image.
They went to a London based Ligas Delaney and they created advertising that had to cross the pond. It had to service both markets. They didn't have the dollars to necessarily chase that.
And I mean, they did some like in skateboarding and some basketball. But for the most part, you know, having that sensibility does cross, especially if you're making a, a disruptive statement like they're doing.
I think that's the, the key to that. But no, I'm, I'm down for it. Even the song, I mean, Blue Sky, I mean, you're talking to. What is it like, what's the Jazz Singer like?
You know what I mean? Like Bing Crosby, Willie Nelson, like that's, that's a great choice. And then to, to medal fy it, like that's just, there's a lot layered into it.
I thought they did a good job.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:47.860 - 00:33:45.990
Well, you know, Dave, you're saying, well, you know, that's not where Columbia is now, it's where they're going. I certainly agree relative to where they have been in terms of their marketing.
And it's been very milquetoast and just like sort of everything else in the boring outdoor marketing ecosystem. But they do have a history of this kind of marketing. Like I was looking at some of those. Yeah, one tough mother stuff.
I looked at one ad from 1997, which is Gert is driving this SUV like through the wilderness. And Tim Boyle is on the roof rack and he is just getting pelted with, you know, with mud and snow.
And at the end, basically he gets shit on by a bird. I mean, like hilarious. Like really good stuff.
And so, you know, that to me sort of gives them a little bit of permission to say, hey, we've done this. This isn't just us, you know, just totally zigging and then zagging. But so, yeah.
And I've got to say though, my favorite part, Aron Ralston, the cameo there is just chef's kiss, right?
Producer Dave
00:33:46.470 - 00:36:13.950
I agree. No, you're totally right. I think it is part of their DNA and I think that gives them a little bit more permission, even if they have strayed a bit.
That that campaign you're talking about actually goes back to the 80s, right? One tough mother was in the early 80s. And that I just have to shout out, that's a longtime agency partner, Borders parent in Norander. Awesome group.
And they turned that into culture, you know, back then. And then what, 10 years ago they tried to bring it back, tested tough. So they brought kind of the spirit of Gert back a little bit.
But it didn't have the same edge specific, you know, of clearly where they are now. And it did feel a little safer. But they, you could see them trying to draw back to that.
That was an agency called north that has been working with them for a while. So here they're tapping into that DNA and moving it forward. And look, it cuts down well from a 60 to a 30. You can do great social 15s out of it.
I've seen some of the print work that they're doing for it. They're still. Print is not dead. And some of them are screenshots that you'd recognize from the campaign. And it's engineered for whatever or.
Or this jacket is a climate denier. Jack Frost ain't got jack shit. You know, I mean, so they're really pushing that. And again, they're clean, they're beautiful looking pieces.
And then you've got this attitude to it. And then actually the thing that goes along with this is a companion piece that dropped that hasn't made the round yet. But it's called, what is it?
Test one, engineered for whatever. And they've got a guy hanging from a helicopter from a rope made of pants tied to each other.
And the way that they have made it look is that there is no net. So they're out there over a lake like mythbusters meets, I don't know, kind of Jackass kind of way, right? Just kind of throwing it together.
And then at the end they reveal, I'm gonna give you the spoiler at the end they reveal there's like alligators in the lake, you know, and clearly they're in a lake that there are no alligators. But still the way they put it together is fantastic.
So it's a wonderful now product specific message in this same kind of way where the first one's very brand, there's no product about that, it's just pure brand. But yes, now they're getting into more of a direct product benefit type of message to complement the brand, but still a lot of fun.
And I expect that they'll do more with that as a series for sure.
Colin True
00:36:14.270 - 00:37:09.410
So we obviously we linked the video in the show notes. If you haven't seen it and you've listened this far, go watch it before and then maybe even go back and listen to what we just said.
But the one thing I do want to get into is now obviously there's a lot of enthusiasm on this call for it, but there was an interesting reaction online.
I actually commented on someone's post on LinkedIn that the old guard outdoor creatives have put down their tapioca pudding at the retirement center for the formerly edgy individuals, picked up the rice axes and are coming for this campaign in the most predictable way possible. Because it's just not to invoke the casual cord conversation again. But it's like, like, my God, like, how, how do you look at this?
Especially with the history. Because that's the funny thing. Like the people who seem to like it are like, oh, this is so not on brand for Colombian.
How do they expect to support a campaign like this with, you know, the, this edgy thing that doesn't match their products, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, it's so obvious to me what they're trying to do here.
Producer Dave
00:37:09.730 - 00:37:15.910
You have to fix the plane and fly it at the same time. Colin, you can't wait for everything to match up. You gotta, you gotta go.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:17.740 - 00:37:52.430
The hot take that I really don't have any time for is people are already afraid of getting involved in the outdoors and now you're showing them all these horrible things that can happen. You're going to drive people away from outdoor activities.
It's like, oh my God, give people a little bit of credit to realize that this is just poking fun at that. And it's actually even like bursting the bubble of those fears and making it all so, so dumb, right? And actually reaching New people.
But people just take everything so seriously today, it's insane.
Producer Dave
00:37:52.510 - 00:37:58.110
Yeah, I think the absurdistness absolutely paints that in the picture. Exactly what you're talking about.
Colin True
00:37:58.270 - 00:38:07.550
It's just industry gatekeeping at its best. I mean, people are just like, it's gotta be my way. This is the way the industry's supposed to be. And I don't like it.
And let me tell you why I'm right.
Producer Dave
00:38:08.270 - 00:38:29.650
I'll even go and say, I'll gatekeep here if you can't see the. And the genius of a disruptive type of communication like that. You really shouldn't be in brand strategy. I don't care if it's for you. You dig it.
That is such a clear strategic intent of what they're doing. And they executed. Come on back, you know, back away from the vehicle.
Colin True
00:38:29.650 - 00:38:45.130
Well, I went back as I was thinking about this last fall, we talked about the. We play different campaign from the North Face and you know, and it was one that Dave, you really liked. It's pretty similar, actually.
There are moments of that, of that, of that video where people are getting hurt. There's a guy with a bloody lip.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:45.130 - 00:38:51.210
I disagree there, Colin, because that, that took itself seriously. This doesn't take itself seriously at all.
Colin True
00:38:51.930 - 00:39:17.410
100%. I think it's. But the debate there, again with the knee jerk reaction to that was like, what's the North Face?
It wasn't that people were getting hurt or that you could get caught in an avalanche. It's that, well, the North Face isn't even an outdoor brand anymore, so why are we even like taking them seriously? Right? And that was.
So it's just these knee jerk reactions depending on the brand and the message they're trying to send, when the obvious thing is right there, you know, and it just, it just blows my mind every single time it happens.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:17.410 - 00:39:26.490
Right.
So of these two campaigns that probably had similar production budgets, which one has truly broken through and broken out of the LinkedIn outdoor sphere?
Colin True
00:39:27.450 - 00:39:28.970
Oh, the Columbia one.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:29.290 - 00:39:30.410
100%. Yeah.
Colin True
00:39:30.730 - 00:39:31.210
Easily.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:31.210 - 00:39:31.530
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:39:31.530 - 00:39:46.830
Yeah. If you just look at the earned coverage in fashion magazines and trades from Europe to the United States, it's been everywhere for the last few days.
And so I think that's a huge win just for setting the table for a Columbia on a new path.
Colin True
00:39:47.550 - 00:40:10.910
Oh, and just one last thing from a retailer perspective, right?
Because this is again, things that get lost in these conversations, like when we're all sort of like, you know, gazing at our navels about this stuff, right? About like what we think's important. When you see a big swing like this from a brand like what crosses your mind first.
I mean, especially Columbia is an interesting choice considering you were at Moose Jaw, which I would have. I'm sure you carried Columbia stuff, but they probably weren't the most important brand to Moose.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:11.380 - 00:40:34.740
Yeah, they weren't. We carried them online. We didn't really carry them in store. Yeah, it would make me think twice about the brand.
And is there going to be some overarching demand halo here that we want to get behind? Right. So yeah, because it is. It's breaking through and that's what we need in this sea of sameness.
So yeah, I would think twice from a buy perspective.
Colin True
00:40:34.980 - 00:40:51.670
The website looks like it's been updated too. It's a good looking website to go with it now. While to the naysayers, you know, to their credit, the product looks like Columbia product.
Still, it'll be interesting to see if there is some shift like just, you know, visually, color wise, whatever it is. I mean, it's outdoor stuff so you can't really.
Producer Dave
00:40:51.670 - 00:41:01.390
They're so broad though, Colin. They can have a shift in just part of their line that's directed at the target of this type of communication.
It doesn't mean the whole thing has to move.
Colin True
00:41:02.030 - 00:41:12.610
Actually, you can pour Columbia if you think about it, right? I mean, you bring up the ad campaigns of the past. Every year they're out there releasing Star wars product. They put out like this video.
They were all like, yeah, but you're lame.
Producer Dave
00:41:12.610 - 00:41:13.530
Space shuttle.
Colin True
00:41:13.850 - 00:41:21.530
Right, right. They're constantly throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. They were like, now you're lame. Fuck off, Columbia.
That seems to be the prevailing sentiment here.
Producer Dave
00:41:21.850 - 00:41:22.490
It does.
Colin True
00:41:24.410 - 00:41:31.530
So we will. We are going to earmark this one though, Dave, for an episode of the Brief.
You're doing some research and doing some digging on this already, I believe.
Producer Dave
00:41:31.770 - 00:41:38.070
No, we'll see, we'll see. They have to, they have to play. No one's gotten back to me about it. So. So that's the.
Colin True
00:41:38.390 - 00:43:15.360
All right, anyone at Columbia on the creative side who wants something to do with this campaign, Please reach out myrockfightmail.com we would love to talk to you more about it and its development for sure. All right, today's episode of the Rock Fight was presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking.
And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including the following. Number one, that euphoric moment when you realize that you're not lost. Like, oh, There's I'm supposed to be where I am, thank God we all know that.
One, number two, because getting caught in hail can build lifelong memories to go with some mild trauma with welts. Number three, because the mountain doesn't care if you make it, but you still try.
And number four, you'll be way less traumatized if you're out there in your Oboz High Alite mid waterproof boots. Oboz Highlight is rooted in the spirit of Highlight Canyon.
Designed for lasting comfort and made with recycled and bio based materials, the high Alight collection is designed to support your stride, whether that's out on rocky switchbacks or wandering closer to home. And this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana.
Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking. All right, for the parting shot.
I saw a story last week about a guy named Brian Wiens who has skied once a month for the past 25 years. His streak began in August of 1995 and has continued with at least one ski day for 300 consecutive months. So first, that's remarkable.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:15.680 - 00:43:18.560
How is he managing? How is he managing this?
Producer Dave
00:43:18.560 - 00:43:19.360
Where does he live?
Colin True
00:43:19.680 - 00:43:20.580
He's a Colorado guy.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:20.730 - 00:43:21.050
Guy.
Colin True
00:43:21.210 - 00:43:28.650
I think there's probably. Sure, there's some thin months there where he's just putting on skis and, you know, there's some patches or some small glaciers or whatever, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:43:28.650 - 00:43:29.210
Yeah.
Colin True
00:43:29.930 - 00:43:45.050
And maybe he traveled for some of it. I don't know.
I definitely, though, enjoy an outdoor story like this one more than, like reading about FKTs or some, you know, big endurance accomplishment because a guy like Brian surely had challenges that were more of the everyday variety. I'm sure he had to go out there when he was, like, sick or had other commitments.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:45.210 - 00:43:45.890
So this is very.
Producer Dave
00:43:45.890 - 00:43:46.650
Soccer practice.
Colin True
00:43:46.730 - 00:44:40.830
Yeah, right. I don't know if he's a dad, but absolutely Very cool type of endurance. It's endurance against time more than physical activity. But.
And for my parting shot, I have to ask, what didn't Brian get to do? Because he continued to choose to do this. And look, I don't know the guy. Maybe this is all he wanted to do and in that case, more power to him.
But the worst part to me of prepping for a big event or a race or something where there's things you can't do because you're committed to prepping for that big event. So my first thought when I saw this was thinking of someone calling up Brian Wiens with Free tickets to a show at Red Rocks or something.
And him having to say, oh, man, would love to go, but I gotta go and get my August turns on that patch of snow just to make sure I check this box. So the outdoors are wonderful, but I think they can also become a burden if we let that happen. And that's my parting shot.
That's just my own cynical point of view that I thought of when I read this story.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:41.070 - 00:44:42.670
Wow. No burden, Colin.
Producer Dave
00:44:42.670 - 00:44:43.550
It's no burden.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:43.550 - 00:44:46.750
That's a horrible take, Colin, on a lovely story.
Colin True
00:44:47.300 - 00:44:52.500
I admit. It's. It's more reflective on me. I understand that. If he's happy, that's great.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:52.980 - 00:44:53.540
Okay.
Colin True
00:44:53.940 - 00:45:14.140
I remember I was trained.
I was training for an ultra marathon, and I was so tired of running, and I called my buddy who does ultras regularly, and I'm like, dude, I hate running. I don't want to go running anymore. I want to, like, go mountain biking or something.
He goes, oh, no, man, you're doing it right if that's how you feel. Because, like, that's how much time you have to put in running to get ready for these big events. I'm like, I don't want to do this. This is terrible.
Why do people do this all the time? So.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:14.210 - 00:45:15.490
So it's like one of those things.
Producer Dave
00:45:15.570 - 00:45:17.330
It's called cross training, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:45:17.890 - 00:45:22.370
On your deathbed, will you say to yourself, gosh, I wish I'd run another ultramarathon.
Colin True
00:45:24.210 - 00:45:30.690
And, you know, Brian would say, God, I wish I had gone for 600 months. You know, maybe that's just his jam, you know, Good for him.
Producer Dave
00:45:31.090 - 00:45:34.450
So leave it to global warming to end his dream.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:36.050 - 00:45:39.450
Wow, that is dark, Dave. That is just.
Colin True
00:45:39.450 - 00:45:40.610
Just took the heat off of me, Dave.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:40.610 - 00:45:41.490
Thanks, Dark.
Producer Dave
00:45:42.210 - 00:45:43.170
Dark. Look around.
Colin True
00:45:44.530 - 00:45:50.370
That's true. Okay, started with tariffs, we end with global warming. That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:50.370 - 00:45:52.370
All right, everybody, have a great Monday.
Producer Dave
00:45:52.530 - 00:45:53.650
Oh, and it's Monday.
Colin True
00:45:57.570 - 00:46:24.169
All right, that's the show for today. We want your emails. Send them to myrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LLC. Today's producer.
You heard him, producer Dave for Owen Comerford and Colin True. That's me. And. Oh, and Sarah. Thank you, Sarah Genser for being our art director. I left her out in the script today, so. Thanks, Sarah. I'm Colin True.
Thanks for listening. And here to take us out, Krista Makes with the Rock Fight fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:46:33.540 - 00:47:25.390
The ride bike, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we we speak our truth. Rock flight. Rock fight, Rock fight.
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