Gear Abby Episode 4: How to Hike Alone, Pack a Raft, Walk on Ice & Still Have Hope
- colin7931
- 1 minute ago
- 38 min read
On this episode of Gear Abby, Shawnté Salabert and producer Colin True dig into listener questions about solo adventuring, packing for whitewater, traction devices for snowy trails, and how to keep hope alive in a time of accelerated environmental degradation. Equal parts practical and personal, Shawnté once again brings her mix of hard-earned experience, humor, and blunt honesty to the table.
Question 1: Solo Female Hiker
Listener: Hally E.
Hally admitted she scared herself silly with too many true crime podcasts and wanted advice on overcoming fears about hiking alone as a woman.
Shawnté’s take:Fear, she explains, is natural; and not just for women. She rattles off her own nightmare fuel list before her first PCT solo hike (snowstorms, bears, mountain lions, lightning, loneliness, water crossings, creeps), and yes, she faced every single one of them. But preparation, not panic, got her through.
Her advice:
Identify what you can control (training, first aid knowledge, stats about actual animal risks).
Take a self-defense class, like those taught by outdoor/self-defense expert Nicole Snell.
Maintain situational awareness (Shawnté hikes earbud-free).
Set firm boundaries and remember, “Fuck politeness” applies on trail, too.
Trust your gut and move if something feels off.
Bottom line: Hiking solo can be intimidating, but the risks are smaller than they seem and the rewards are huge.
Question 2: Whitewater Raft Pack List
Listener: Stoked for the Salmon
First-time rafter, longtime backpacker, Salmon wanted to know what’s different when it comes to packing for the river.
Shawnté’s take:River life = damp life. The key is dry bags: one large for camp clothes and sleeping gear, and one small clipped into the raft for snacks, sunblock, and essentials.
Other pro tips:
Daily outfit: swimwear, shorts, sunhat, sunglasses with croakies, river shoes like Tevas, and (when needed) a dry top.
Clip your water bottle into the boat.
A pack towel + waterproof phone case = gold.
Don’t forget electrolytes, art supplies (her watercolor kit was a trip highlight), and a sense of humor — because river guides love costumes.
Bottom line: Watch out for the horny salmon.
Question 3: Traction Devices
Listener: Santy Claus
In the eternal Facebook hiking group debate — microspikes or crampons? — Santy wanted the truth.
Shawnté’s take:Ignore the internet arguments and use the right tool for the job.
Snowshoes: Best for deep, unconsolidated snow. Built-in traction, but not for steep slopes.
Crampons: Rigid, aggressive spikes with front points for steep snow and ice. Heavy, boot-specific, and often paired with an ice axe.
Kahtoola K-10s: A “middle ground” option Shawnté likes for early-season Sierra hikes.
Spikes (aka Microspikes): Lightweight, easy to slip on over shoes, perfect for icy trails or compact snow on mellow to moderate slopes.
Bottom line: Choose based on terrain, not Facebook drama.
Question 4: Remaining Optimistic
Listener: Daniele (with one L)
Daniele asked the heaviest question of the day: how do you stay hopeful about the future of the outdoors when everything feels under threat?
Shawnté’s take:She recalled interviewing a French ocean activist who told her bluntly: “The ocean is screwed, the real hope lies in slowing the damage.” Shawnté holds onto optimism in two places: the resilience of nature, and the care people show when they ask questions like Daniele’s.
Her advice:
Take individual action (reduce waste, compost, buy less).
But also push for systemic change (support legislation, write to reps, divest from destructive industries).
Get active locally with bird counts, pollinator gardens, community groups.
Protect a place you love. Learn its story. Give it your time and energy.
Optimism isn’t blind faith, it's stubborn action.
The Takeaway
From confronting fears about solo adventures to finding hope in the face of climate change to dealing with lascivious fish, Shawnté’s message in this episode is clear: preparation, awareness, and small daily actions add up to empowerment in the outdoors.
Episode Bings (aka Footnotes)
Correct email address is DearGearAbby@gmail.com
Is Knee to the groin an actual band? Not that we could find but it was the title of a 1997 album by comedian Pablo Francisco. (And here’s Nicole Snell’s website if you want to take a class or learn more.)
Horny Salmon… real or just another band name? We’ll let you google this one.
Does anyone like Leftover Salmon? Email us.
Here’s a video about the spawning habits of salmon.
Click here to shop for dry bags.
Would you all like to be called The Horny Salmons? Email us.
Breaking downy snowshoes, crampons, and microspikes.
Listen to the Full Episode
This recap only scratches the surface, listen to all of Gear Abby Episode 4 here or just click the player below.
And if you’ve got your own gear dilemmas, need solutions to your hiking chafe, or just want Shawnté to settle an outdoor debate, send your questions to deargearabby@gmail.com, they just might land in a future episode.
And remember: there are no dumb questions—just smart advice.
Episode Transcript (procured electronically, pardon the typos):
The Gear Abby Theme Song!
00:00:03.200 - 00:00:21.280
You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find, like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks.
She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:21.840 - 00:01:22.950
Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abby, where we tackle the common, controversial, weird, obscure, and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I'm Shantae Salibair, an outdoor educator, writer, and former school social worker who's hiked, run, climbed, paddled, and adventured across the United States and beyond.
And here at Gear Abbey, I channel all that experience and more into answering your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. Because remember, my outdoor loving pals, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, so you know how this works.
You're going to send questions in to myrockfightmail.com and I'm going to pick my favorites to answer here on the show. And joining me, as always, delightfully so, is my mustachioed partner in Gear, the producer of Gear Abby, the host of the Rock Fight, and our.
Our official question slinger, Colin True. What's up, Colin?
Colin True
00:01:22.950 - 00:01:30.190
I gotta say, I think that was your best hello there. We're on episode five four. Episode four. I think that was your best hello there of your hello there's.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:30.270 - 00:01:32.270
Wow. Thank you. What really brought it to me.
Colin True
00:01:32.270 - 00:01:38.910
You just really. You just. You nailed it. You could tell. You've done it a few times now, you know, and just like, you knew, like, where you had to get to.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:38.990 - 00:01:59.640
You know, it took me a couple decades, but finally I know how to say hello to people. Hello. Hi, how do you. I have finally learned how to be a human woman. It's a thrill.
Well, Colin, I really, I really appreciate your kindness to start off today's podcast. I feel psyched now. Like, hello, Colin. Hello to you.
Colin True
00:01:59.640 - 00:02:04.279
Maybe that's. Maybe just hello is in your new. The tagline. Hello there, Gear Abby.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:04.279 - 00:02:06.440
My new podcast is just me greeting you.
Colin True
00:02:07.000 - 00:02:29.210
And that's it. And we're out. Attention Gear Abby listeners, this is your producer and partner in Gear, Colin True speaking.
And I wanted to let you know that that sound you just heard, the one that sounded like this, that's your indication that there is a footnote available for you on the Gear Abby episode companion article over on rockflight. Co. Go check it out to get even more from every episode of Gear Abbey.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:29.450 - 00:02:34.330
And we're out. Great. Thank you for listening. Each episode Will dive into a different way to say hello. Hello.
Colin True
00:02:34.650 - 00:02:35.690
Different language, maybe.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:36.250 - 00:02:49.410
Yeah. Konnichiwa. I was studying Japanese for a while because I was supposed to go to Japan.
I was gonna spend like a couple weeks in Japan and backpack and do some other stuff and you know when I was supposed to go to Japan.
Colin True
00:02:49.410 - 00:02:50.170
Colin Covid.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:51.130 - 00:02:54.730
Yeah. March 19, 2020. I mean, that's just great timing.
Colin True
00:02:54.730 - 00:03:00.730
It's like, it's just the answer. As soon as someone's gonna be like, I was gonna do something and then I couldn't. Let me guess what it was.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:01.290 - 00:03:02.490
It was the Rona.
Colin True
00:03:02.570 - 00:03:03.130
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:04.890 - 00:03:16.070
Well, you know what? I'm sure that's not what people are here for today is language learning with Shantae. So what they are here for are some really thoughtful questions.
So let's kick it off. What do you got for me?
Colin True
00:03:16.070 - 00:03:32.470
All right, our first question today comes from Halle E. I believe it's Halle, not Holly. It's like Sally with an H. So I'm gonna go with Hallie.
Dear Gear Abby, how does a solo female hiker get over her fears of hiking alone after she freaked herself out with too many true crime podcasts?
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:32.790 - 00:03:43.500
Oh, good one.
Well, all right, first of all, Hallie, you may want to start diversifying your podcast listening to include maybe like less terror inducing, crime ridden podcasts.
Colin True
00:03:43.500 - 00:03:46.660
It's a thing, though. The true crime thing is. It's truly a thing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:46.660 - 00:04:48.470
It is. I mean, I am absolutely guilty. My mom, of all people, is the one who got me into it.
So, yep, I have listened to my fair share and I totally get where Hallie's coming from. I think that's a very normal thing. And, but, but here's the thing, is that, you know, what's normal is having fears about hiking alone.
I think that is something that people of all genders experience.
I mean, I was actually terrified the very first time I set out to backpack by myself, which was, believe it or not, when I was preparing to spend a summer on the pct. So I had not ever backpacked alone before then. Um, it was. It was a little bit of anxiety fuel before I left.
So I had this kind of short list of nightmares that included snow, ice, mountain lions, bears, lightning, loneliness, sketchy river crossings, running out of food, um, and obviously de. Dealing with creepy humans, honestly. But you know what? I experienced all of it while I was out there. Every single thing happened.
Colin True
00:04:48.470 - 00:04:50.190
Is this supposed to reassure H or.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:50.190 - 00:06:40.860
We'll get to the reassuring part first. We need to be real. Okay? We need to be real with H. So here's the deal. Like, I woke up one morning to a snowstorm in July.
I came within high fiving distance of a bear. One day, a mountain lion crossed my path.
Actually, one morning when I was hiking up to a pass and it was uncomfortably close to me, it actually went into the woods and I was like, okay, buddy, please don't come for me in my sleep. There were some days where I cried because of loneliness, Honestly. Um, one day I went over a high pass.
Lightning struck the ridgeline not far away from me. I had a small panic attack after watching a couple people, like, dip into a creek, crossing a pretty burly one that I still hadn't crossed.
Uh, I almost ran out of food, and I had to weasel some out of these weekend backpackers that had too much.
And, yeah, I had to deal with this absolutely annoying pest of a man who wouldn't leave me alone for two solid days before I finally kind of held my ground and told him to screw off. But the thing is, like, all right, all those things happen. And I was absolutely fine. Yeah, And I was fine. Not because I am a superwoman.
Although, please, you know, please feel free to think so. It was because I honestly, I spent time with my fears before I set out.
You know, just kind of taking stock of all these things that I was worried about and figuring out how I could actually address these concerns, my many, many concerns ahead of time instead of letting the whole thing just ruin my trip. You know, we talk about sometimes, and I'm sure this will come up on a future episode, but I always talk about packing your fears.
People tend to pack all these things thinking they're gonna, you know, I'm just gonna bring all this extra stuff because it's gonna help me if this maybe happens or that maybe happens. But I think here, Hallie and Colin, in case you've ever felt these things inside. Have you?
Colin True
00:06:41.100 - 00:06:53.900
Well, yeah. I mean, the fears are part of the experience here. Like, one reason we do these things is definitely.
You're not saying, I'm going to start doing these things because I want to overcome fear, but it's part of what you end up doing by doing these outdoor activities.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:53.900 - 00:07:04.940
Dude, it's so true. I mean, it is. It's like this kind of way to test yourself when people talk about.
And this is one of my least favorite things people say about the mountains. For instance, like, I'm going to go out there and conquer that mountain.
Colin True
00:07:05.020 - 00:07:06.060
Yeah, same, bro.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:06.300 - 00:07:20.140
The mountain does not care. The mountain does not give a shit. You are not doing anything to the mountain.
Other than being on it, you know, or in it, I guess, if it's volcano or something. But yeah, you know, you're really conquering that stuff that's inside of you. So. Yeah, you. You feel me?
Colin True
00:07:20.620 - 00:07:21.340
Yeah, totally.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:21.340 - 00:08:08.650
But here's the thing. Like, here's how I deal with it and here's how you could deal with it.
Hallie and anybody else who's listening is sort of identify what you can and cannot control because there are. There are going to be aspects of both here.
So for instance, if you're worried about getting hurt in the backcountry, which is a super common fear, you can't really control freak accidents.
But you can, for instance, take wilderness first aid training, which is geared towards people who are going to be deeper in the backcountry, further away from help. And I've actually used my wilderness first aid training in emergency situations when I've been out there. So it comes in handy.
And it's just something you have sitting around in your brain or if you're worried about animal attacks. I mean, it might help if you look at actual statistics rather than watching, I don't know, Warner Herzog's Grizzly Man.
Colin True
00:08:09.130 - 00:08:12.530
Yeah, not a good one. Not. Not a fun rewatch, you know, it's not like a rewatchable movie.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:12.530 - 00:08:20.530
Yeah, it's, you know, that's not a cuddly film. No, I mean, maybe to the grizz, like if a grizzly was watching. Maybe. I don't know, like.
Colin True
00:08:20.530 - 00:08:21.050
This is great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:21.210 - 00:08:22.890
I love this. This is like I was.
Colin True
00:08:22.890 - 00:08:26.250
I wasn't into in the beginning when the. When the bear likes the human, but the ending.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:26.970 - 00:08:29.290
Chef's Kiss touches me straight in my soul.
Colin True
00:08:29.770 - 00:08:32.770
Grizzly bear movie reviews coming soon from the Rock fight.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:32.770 - 00:09:12.200
Okay, next up. Okay, yeah, well, we'll do. We'll do a podcast about that. I'm into it. I mean, I love, like, I actually went. Colin. Because this is how nerdy I am.
I went over to the North American Bear Center's website and this is what wildlife biologist Dr. Lynn Rogers wrote. She said black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900. 1900. That's a long time ago, guys. This no longer worries me.
My chances of being killed by a domestic dog, bees or lightning are vastly greater. My chances of being murdered. Speaking of murder, podcasts are 60,000 times greater. One of the safest places a person can be is in the woods, so.
Colin True
00:09:12.200 - 00:09:15.400
Right. No, no. Being murdered. Not being murdered in the woods by.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:15.400 - 00:09:19.880
A domestic dog covered in bees while being zapped by Lightning, you know that.
Colin True
00:09:20.360 - 00:09:21.560
God, I'd like to see that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:21.560 - 00:09:23.000
I mean, that would make a good.
Colin True
00:09:23.080 - 00:09:24.640
Second X Men villain or something like.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:24.640 - 00:11:38.580
That, you know, extreme nature, man. I'm not very good at creating X Men villains, as it turns out. I'll work, I'll workshop that one on my downtime, you know.
So this, this actually kind of brings me to what, what Hallie is asking here. If I'm reading the question right, considering, Halle, you are a true crime aficionado, much like myself, unfortunately.
Better or worse, you're probably worried about encountering creeps out there, right? So I'm not going to gaslight. You of course, happened to women out on the trail.
There's some, you know, we've got some infamous stories unfortunately from the Appalachian Trail and other places. You know, these things have been happening for time eternal. But remember, evil is going to evil, whether that's in the woods or on a city street.
So there's really, there's a few things you can do to create a better sense of security and ease if you're heading out alone. So one of the things I always recommend is first consider signing up for a self defense course.
Uh, the very first one I actually took was a college class and I got credit for it, believe it or not. Um, and my favorite part of it was that our final project was that we, we had to stage a fight between us and a would be assailant.
And I received a perfect grade for my perfectly choreographed scenario between two women fighting over the last chocolate Easter bunny the day after Easter in the store. True story. Absolutely true story. I'm not joking. Uh, but you can find not classes where you don't have to do that all over the place.
Community colleges, martial arts centers, you know, stuff like that.
I also recommend look up a woman named Nicole Snell that's N I C O L E. Last name S N E L L. She's an outdoor enthusiast who is also this kind of renowned self defense expert. And she teaches from a place of empowerment rather than fear, which I think is really important.
So even if you don't take one of her classes, follow her on social media. She's got some great videos and things to say and I've learned a lot from her over the years too.
All right, so second, I would say commit to maintaining what I like to think of as situational awareness when you're out on your own. So for me this means I don't wear earbuds when I'm out hiking or trail running or backpacking.
I have Friends who absolutely think I'm a psychopath for not wearing earbuds when I go running.
Colin True
00:11:38.580 - 00:11:46.540
But no, I have friends who run ultramarathons without earbuds. And I'm like, I don't know how you do that, but I'm jealous more than I am upset with that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:46.540 - 00:14:08.780
It's meditative. I don't know. I like hearing birds song.
I mean, I do it mostly for me, but I also also kind of do it because I need all of my faculties at full, like on full alert in order not to fall and like trip over shit while I'm out there. So just to be real.
But yeah, and if you're going to use an earbud, you can get the kinds that have pass through where you can still hear the sounds around you, or you can pop one in and do the whole mono ear thing, which again would probably make me trip, but maybe it works for you. And I'd say third, be open to the magic of the people you can meet out there because that's real.
But also be really firm in your own boundaries, like know what's comfortable and uncomfortable to you. So I think one of the most common things that people will say to other hikers is, where are you going? Where are you heading?
Where are you camping tonight? And it's usually this kind of innocuous small talk.
But remember, you are under no obligation to answer this or any other question or to even answer it truthfully. Okay?
So to quote the hosts of my favorite Murder, one of the maybe the top true crime podcasts out there, which I assume Hallie is queued up on your absolutely true crime ridden podcast, queue politeness. So that's what they say. The whole idea is you don't owe anybody shit.
You just get out there and no matter what anyone asks you, especially as a woman, I think for me women were conditioned to like, be nice to people and, oh, he's just asking an innocent question. I don't give a shit. You know what I just tell people, listen, I'm just gonna see where the date takes me.
I don't care if they think I'm an idiot with no plan. Like, I'm just gonna go wherever I feel like I'm Dorothy, I'm looking for Oz. I have no idea. You don't need to tell them anything.
So, I mean, ultimately trust your gut. It's better to be safe than sorry. And that became a maxim for a reason.
You know, it's always worth it to overreact a little bit if you feel like that's the case when you're nervous rather than underreact and have something bad happen. So if you're getting weird vibes, just like, mosey on down the trail, find a new campsite. Backtrack if you have to.
It's always worth listening to your intuition. But finally, Hallie, one final thought I want you to take with you.
Whether it's bear attacks or lightning strikes or creepers, remember that the likelihood of you experiencing something truly awful out there is fairly small, and the likelihood of you having a really great time is pretty high.
So confront your fears, prepare as best as you can, but also remember to be present and maybe listen to some more upbeat podcasts on the way to the trailhead. Okay?
Colin True
00:14:09.100 - 00:14:11.740
And if all else fails, knee to the groin.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:12.140 - 00:14:27.930
Knee to the groin. That's a good one. We definitely learned that in self defense. All right, Colin, I. I love how we ended that last question.
I'm just going to be thinking about need of the Groin for a while. Thank you for that. Another new band name, need of the Groin, which. Okay, we're gonna add it to the band.
Colin True
00:14:27.930 - 00:14:31.090
It probably is a band, right? That's gotta be a band or an album.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:31.090 - 00:14:32.930
Is it a hardcore band or.
Colin True
00:14:33.170 - 00:14:35.850
I would. It's. If it's not, it should be like.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:35.850 - 00:14:44.760
A screamo, one of those bands. It's like really melodic and fast metal. And then the guy just sounds like he's having a full mental blowdown into the mic. That.
Colin True
00:14:44.760 - 00:14:47.320
Yes. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:47.320 - 00:14:48.400
Kneaded the groin.
Colin True
00:14:49.360 - 00:14:50.880
We all needed the groin.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:51.040 - 00:14:59.560
Yes. Okay, I'm glad we're on the same page here with that. All right, let's dive into another question. What do you have for me?
Colin True
00:14:59.560 - 00:15:16.970
Okay, next question. Dear, dear Abby, I'm going on my first whitewater rafting trip in a few weeks and I'm super excited.
The only other multi day trips I've done are backpacking trips. Any pro tips on what I should pack? That would be different than what I would take backpacking. Signed, Stoked for the salmon.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:17.050 - 00:15:28.330
Yeah. Yeah.
I want to know if they're going out on the Salmon river, which was actually my first pack rafting trip or my first rafting trip or if they're just gonna eat a bunch of salmon when they're out.
Colin True
00:15:28.330 - 00:15:31.850
Just a lot of smoked salmon in the, in the cooler. Like what's going on Fishing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:31.850 - 00:15:33.130
What do you don't want to live in it?
Colin True
00:15:33.290 - 00:15:37.210
I'm gonna think it's the form. I think it's. I think they're goddling the. The Salmon River Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:37.290 - 00:16:01.900
That's a good. And if so, they're very lucky because that is. That is a sweet, sweet river. It was my very first rafting experience, actually.
And I remember being really excited about it and nervous as hell. Let's be for real. Like, all I could think about was, am I just going to end up in a rapid somewhere with my legs in the air, just pinned under?
And my mom is going to get this awful call one day from, like, some sheriff from rural Idaho.
Colin True
00:16:02.300 - 00:16:05.420
But what a good story about how you. Why you went out, Right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:05.420 - 00:16:05.660
Yeah.
Colin True
00:16:05.660 - 00:16:08.230
It's not just. Yeah, exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:08.390 - 00:16:12.310
Yeah. Better than a snake bite, I guess. Salmon bite.
Colin True
00:16:13.670 - 00:16:17.110
Salmon's brutal. And they're pissed we keep damming their rivers.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:17.110 - 00:16:17.710
Could you imagine?
Colin True
00:16:17.710 - 00:16:18.310
God damn it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:18.310 - 00:16:27.510
It's like if the orcas. It's like the orcas on a micro level. If all the salmon just started banding together. I mean, if. Listen.
If salmon can swim upstream, what can't they do?
Colin True
00:16:28.390 - 00:16:34.950
Listen, I know how I feel when I haven't had sex for a while and they've been, like, decades. They're trying to spawn, all right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:34.950 - 00:16:36.950
They want us to bone just a little bit.
Colin True
00:16:36.950 - 00:16:39.730
They're so. The salmon. Horny.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:39.730 - 00:16:44.370
So they could do. Listen, when you're in that state, anything could happen. So I wouldn't put salmon. So.
Colin True
00:16:44.370 - 00:16:48.330
Because if they caught wind that it's our fault, forget it. We're done.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:48.330 - 00:16:49.090
Yeah. Enjoy.
Colin True
00:16:49.090 - 00:16:51.090
Horny Salmon, another band name, by the way.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:51.090 - 00:16:59.850
That is absolutely. That's probably a jam band, though. It is absolutely. Yeah. Right into myrockfightmail.com if you disagree.
Colin True
00:16:59.850 - 00:17:03.570
Is it the. Is it the response to leftover salmon?
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:03.570 - 00:17:04.090
Ooh.
Colin True
00:17:04.090 - 00:17:06.930
And it is more punk rock or hardcore or something like that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:06.930 - 00:17:14.040
Now we're getting into music, physical history, which you know, I'm into. So that's like when Nirvana was the response to hair metal. This is great. Okay, we're getting nerdy here.
Colin True
00:17:14.040 - 00:17:14.360
See?
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:14.600 - 00:17:18.920
Love it. Love it. All right, well, I feel like we should give Stoked a real answer here.
Colin True
00:17:19.000 - 00:17:19.880
Sorry. Stoked.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:19.880 - 00:17:37.980
We're just stoking your fears of horny salmon. Horny salmon, which, you know, maybe something we should be more afraid of. Hard to say.
Well, all right, I'm gonna keep this quick because the main difference with the river trip when you're comparing with your backpacking experience, is that. Wait for it. You're on a river all the time.
Colin True
00:17:37.980 - 00:17:38.540
Big difference.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:38.540 - 00:17:46.100
Yeah. And if you're not on the river, you're in the river or next to the river. So basically, you are always damp. That is what I discovered.
Colin True
00:17:47.300 - 00:17:48.420
Much like a horny salmon.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:48.420 - 00:17:50.100
Much like a horny salmon. Wow.
Colin True
00:17:51.380 - 00:17:52.140
I can cut that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:52.140 - 00:17:57.900
Nope, keep that in. That's staying. Anyone? Anyone who's made it to episode four at this point where I've talked to.
Colin True
00:17:57.900 - 00:17:59.060
You, they know what they're in for.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:59.060 - 00:18:10.360
These three times. They know what they're in for. All right, so, I mean, I did say people could ask any questions.
Just don't ask me about the spawning habits of salmon because I don't really know a whole lot other than what Colin shared with us today.
Colin True
00:18:11.000 - 00:18:12.040
Clearly, I know a lot.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:12.040 - 00:19:35.230
Yeah, that's your new podcast is the Horny Salmon with Colin Shrew. Can't wait to listen. All right, let's. Let's get back to stoked here. So here's what I did that would be different from backpacking.
I brought a large dry bag which held all of my. Wait for it. Dry. Stuff. Stuff I wanted to remain dry. Things like my pajamas. Things like my camp clothes.
Much like backpacking, you always want to have a set of warm, dry clothing that you can switch into when you get at camp, at night, when you're off the river.
I also had a smaller dry bag that I kept near me on the boat, and I just filled it with snacks and sunblock, a few odds and ends, and I just used a carabiner to attach it to the raft just in case we flipped. And that's pretty common. So bring carabiners. They're great because you can attach it onto all sorts of little points on the raft.
So given the constant dampness that we've described with both the rafting and the horny salmon, my daily outfit was a bit different from what I'd wear backpacking.
So I had swimsuit bottoms and top running shorts, a big floppy sun hat with a chin strap because I was petrified that it was going to go like woofing off into the water at some point.
Sunglasses with not brand name croquis, because I'm not that cool, but a little holster to keep your sunglasses around your neck so you don't lose those. A drysuit top, which I got from the guide that was leading the trip. That's really nice. Otherwise a sun shirt will work. And then I wore Tevas. Tevas.
Colin True
00:19:35.470 - 00:19:36.470
Tevas. Tevas.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:36.470 - 00:20:45.760
I always call them Tevas. Yeah, everybody does Tevas. Since you really want shoes that can, you know, not only get wet, but that will also actually stay on your feet.
So don't wear flip flops if you're going rafting, you're going to lose them almost Immediately, I swear. And you know, you may go into the water, which I am very proud to say I did not like. I did not.
Contrary to the contents of every single dream I had in the week leading up to that trip, or maybe nightmare, I stayed dry unless I wanted to be wet. So to that note, I also brought a light pack towel. I brought a water bottle that I could clip to the boat, and a small waterproof case for my phone.
But I think, honestly, my favorite thing that I brought was a small watercolor kit. We had a lot of downtime on the boat when we weren't in the rapids and we're on shore doing an excursion or camping.
And it was fun to make just absolutely terrible paintings of these absolutely magical surroundings. Honestly, I still look at them today and I'm like, oh, I remember when I did that. And the poor guide is behind me rowing, like furiously.
But if you are going with an outfitter, the guides will also probably bring some games, which is kind of fun.
And if your guides are anything at all like the ones I had, they'll also bring weird outfits that you can change into when you're drunk on shore each night.
Colin True
00:20:46.160 - 00:20:47.000
They definitely will.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:47.000 - 00:20:51.680
Yeah. So it turns out that much like backpacking, it's also a good idea to carry electrolytes.
Colin True
00:20:52.160 - 00:20:54.080
Yes. Yes, that is true.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:54.240 - 00:20:58.080
Yeah. Even if not for the drinking, because the sun will get you.
Colin True
00:20:59.280 - 00:22:10.850
I think if you're going to rank these activities, it's hard not to put going on a river trip over a backpacking trip for the simple reason only of you get a lot of those same experiences in terms of the wonder of nature and all those things that we talk about when you go on a backpacking trip. But you can bring way more stuff because you're on boats.
You can bring your guitar, you can bring all these things like you mentioned, you can bring a watercolor kit, things that you would say, well, I'm not going to wear that on my back, you know, and it's.
And again, like, I'm like, it's not a one for one comparison, but as you laid them out, you're like, I'm going to go a long distance in the backcountry. What is going to be the most enjoyable? You kind of have to give the edge to the river trip because it's just so.
It's just so different than it is to just get in a boat every day and you're going down the river and you get out of the river and you cook food and you sit on the shore and all these Kinds of things. It's just the most wonderful experience. And I do endorse highly hire a guide.
I waited too long to go on river trips because I wanted to learn to do it myself. I'm like, I'm gonna learn to row a boat, and then we can do river trips. And finally, I'm like, okay, I'm getting older. I have kids.
There's no way this is gonna happen. So we went on a guided trip, and it was spectacular. So I'm a big fan of the river trip.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:11.010 - 00:22:15.890
Wow. I had no idea you were such a river brat. I love this enthusiasm. Where did you. Where'd you go on that trip?
Colin True
00:22:16.300 - 00:22:21.340
We've done two. We did the Rogue river, and we did the Green. Through the Gates of Lodore.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:21.340 - 00:22:23.420
I don't know why I thought you were gonna say the Gates of Hell.
Colin True
00:22:24.620 - 00:22:27.580
Through the gates of Hell with the horny salmon.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:28.860 - 00:22:34.180
That's how they spawn. They go through the gates of hell. Very damp in there, as it turns out. Hell is damp.
Colin True
00:22:34.180 - 00:23:04.040
It's just that perfect blend. And look, this is definitely a demographic thing where I am not in the.
Like, I want to go live in, you know, in the dirt for two or three weeks at a time. Like, and it's. You know what the. Well, and the guided thing makes it great. And they make your meals and everything like that for you. And it's just.
There's. It's a completely different animal than going on a backpacking trip and you. Different takeaways, I'm sure, from both.
But there's just something real special about being on the river, going in the river time. All of the things that Shantae mentioned. Yeah. Thumbs up.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:04.280 - 00:23:16.320
Love it. Yep. Ah. Wow. All right. So far, so good, Colin. I feel. I feel energized. Like, we started off with a real strong hello.
You know, we've taken some twists and turns during the show today.
Colin True
00:23:16.320 - 00:23:18.820
I think it's the hello, hello. The hello set. The set, the bar.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:18.900 - 00:23:29.460
I'm gonna have to listen back to that and, like, imitate and grow with each episode so that. Because I think you're bringing your, you know, horny salmon thunder. This is great.
Colin True
00:23:29.620 - 00:23:32.500
Is that gonna be the name for our listeners of the horny Salmons? I mean, is that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:32.580 - 00:23:40.820
No. No. All right, let's try to salvage this and come up. You got a third question for me? I hope you do.
Colin True
00:23:40.820 - 00:24:01.610
I do. I do. And it's a. It's a good juxtaposition from the one we just had, because we're. We're going from.
You Know sunny hot days on the river to cold icy days in the winter.
Dear Gear Abby, I see a lot of people arguing in Facebook hiking groups about whether micro spikes or crampons are better when you're hiking in the snow. What's your opinion? Signed, Santa Claus.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:02.010 - 00:24:03.290
Santa Claus. Oh my God.
Colin True
00:24:03.610 - 00:24:05.090
Santa Claus listens to the pod.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:05.090 - 00:25:05.080
Oh, my God. We're really going places now. Maybe not after this episode, but at least until now. Don't tell the kids.
So, to answer your question, Santi, my opinion, since you asked for my opinion, is that you should ignore all of the yahoos online and simply just use the right gear for the situation. Okay, so let's run through a few wintry scenarios and attraction that makes the most sense.
So if you are hiking across relatively mellow terrain on deep snow, especially early in the season, before it's gotten all compacted, what you want is something that offers flotation in addition to traction. So for non skiers, this is going to mean snowshoes.
Now, the main benefit of snowshoes, besides looking cool, like you got big old snow flippers on, is that they spread your body weight over a larger surface area, which reduces the likelihood that you'll end up like our attack, sinking into the quicksand and the swamp of sadness and never ending story. Atreyu. As I was hoping, Colin, you would just naturally shout out Atreyu. You.
Colin True
00:25:05.240 - 00:25:06.240
The. The Atreyu.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:06.240 - 00:25:07.120
I was hoping. I'm not.
Colin True
00:25:07.120 - 00:25:10.660
I. I watched it as a. I was never a big ending story guy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:10.660 - 00:25:15.300
Yeah, that's sad to me. Never ending. I loved it.
Colin True
00:25:16.500 - 00:25:17.340
Yeah. Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:17.340 - 00:25:19.460
Maybe I'll watch it tonight just to spite you.
Colin True
00:25:20.340 - 00:25:22.500
Well, then you have to re. Watch the horse die again.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:22.580 - 00:25:27.100
Oh, God, that's true. Actually, that's the worst part. I just reiterated the worst part of the whole movie.
Colin True
00:25:27.100 - 00:25:28.580
No, now you're gonna go watch it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:28.580 - 00:25:38.380
Fast forward to the part where she goes through the gates with the oracle ladies. The creepy ladies with the laser eyes or laser boobs or whatever it is.
You know, if you were a child in the 80s and you watch this, you know exactly what I'm about. Talking.
Colin True
00:25:38.450 - 00:25:41.170
Talking about. Yeah, we were more of a Flash Gordon household.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:41.250 - 00:25:43.290
Oh, I was not. Yeah, we were not.
Colin True
00:25:43.290 - 00:25:43.730
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:43.810 - 00:27:46.130
All right. Snowshoes. So we got snowshoes here. Colin, we're getting. We're getting back to the topic at hand. We're leaving the swamp of sadness.
We're here in the snowy mound of snow. And the snowshoes. So snowshoes also have built in traction. They're not just for Floating around on the surface.
They've usually got some metal teeth, which some people do refer to as crampons, but it's not the same as the device we're going to talk about in a second. But usually metal teeth located kind of at the instep. Some of them have it up front and these will help you bite in a little bit.
You can also use the frame of the snowshoe to sort of kick, step sideways and get some traction in the snow.
You don't want to venture onto like steep, icy slopes with these things, but they do have some grip in shoulder season, however, when there's still snow on the trail, which is probably what Santi's referring to here. And it's become compacted through that.
You know, all these freeze thaw cycles that happen where basically during the day the snow is going to heat up, it's going to become liquidy and then it's going to get cold and freeze and then more snow falls on top of it.
You just got this, this like hellish sandwich of ice and snow and compacted snow and, and snowshoes just aren't going to be the most efficient mode of keeping you upright and that kind of stuff. Now we're going to get into crampons versus spikes. Dun, dun, dun, main event. All right.
Crampons, which are most commonly used for mountaineering and ice climbing, are these kind of rigid devices that click or strap onto bottom boots with these long metal spikes that help you gain purchase on hard and slippery surfaces.
So a key component of crampons is that they have front points like little fangs out front, and these help bite into hard snow and ice when you're moving across a steep slope. So crampons are heavy, they're super sharp, and they're designed specifically to be worn with boots.
And generally if you're using crampons, it means you're traveling across steep slopes with some sort of major fall risk, like injury or death is imminent if you're sliding down this slope. So you should also be carrying an ice ax as well.
And crampons are also super badass, according to my friend Anna, who is a very indoorsy person who just really likes how it sounds when you say it out loud.
Colin True
00:27:46.690 - 00:27:54.690
Oh, if, if we, and we should do this over on the rock fight. If we had the most badass piece of gear draft, I feel like the number one draft choice would be crampons.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:55.490 - 00:27:58.010
I can't get my voice low enough to do. Wait. Do it.
Colin True
00:27:58.010 - 00:28:04.610
You do it, Grandpa. I, I, I don't Know if I agree with your friend Anna that it's the name, because it's kind of a.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:05.250 - 00:28:08.070
It sounds like tampon. I know. I know what you're thinking.
Colin True
00:28:08.070 - 00:28:13.270
It sounds like tampon, but it's tampon and cramps. It's a whole menstrual cycle thing going on with the name.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:13.270 - 00:28:14.470
That's right. Female power.
Colin True
00:28:14.470 - 00:28:24.110
However, she is right when you're strapping just giant fangy metal spikes to the bottom of your feet so that you can crawl up the side of a frozen mountain.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:24.110 - 00:28:28.470
That's how I feel when I'm on my period. Like, exactly. Exactly. Correct.
Colin True
00:28:28.470 - 00:28:31.470
Crampons just in there just yelling.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:31.470 - 00:31:00.010
Yeah, yeah. I'm just yelling the word crampon across the dicey slope as I dig my ice axe in. Yes. W. This is a. I actually kind of like this visual.
I'm not gonna lie. Just free. Free bleeding on the slope. All right.
So these very badass crampons of mine, to be honest, only come out of their box when I'm gonna be on steep snow slopes, which is pretty rare these days since most of my hiking buddies are middle aged and risk averse. So I also have a pair of Kahtula K10s, which are sort of a middle ground between a traditional crampon and spikes. We'll get to spikes in a second.
The shank of these, which I just like saying, the shank of these, it's more flexible than a traditional crampon and the spikes are less aggressive.
So traditional crampons are really meant to be worn with boots, but I've been able to wear the K10s with trail runners during early season trips in the Sierra. And it's because they kind of flex a lot more in the middle so your shoe isn't getting stuck in the device.
Truth be told though, they're kind of a limited use case.
But I do think they thread the needle just enough and provide slightly more traction than spikes, as long as you're not counting on them to sort of grip in in steep terrain. So now spikes. This is what I think.
Like when you're thinking of thru hikers in particular, they talk a lot about spikes, but also people in urban areas wear spikes to go take the trash out.
So commonly people call these micro spikes, but that's actually a product name that's a K product, Micro Spikes, but we'll just use spikes as a general term. They're the lightest of the traction devices here.
They're designed to fit over anything from tennis shoes to hiking shoes to, you know, non Mountaineering boots.
They're made out of a flexible upper that kind of slips over your shoes and then a collection of these short, lightweight spikes that are kind of connected by chains, usually on the bottom. It's like tire chains for your feet. So they're great for extra traction on ice or hard packed snow when you're on flat or moderate terrain.
But they will not do jack squat if you're in deeper snow or on steep slopes where those longer spikes and the front points of an actual crampon really become crucial.
Uh, so I carry a pair of black diamonds distance spikes with me during early season trips in the Sierra where I might hit some patches of, you know, morning ice or hard packed snow on some of the passes.
And honestly, it's like a six ounce, maybe a little over six ounce weight penalty and it's worth more to me than falling on my ass while wearing a full pack. So there you go. Santi, slowly back away from the Facebook hiking groups and choose your weapons wisely.
Colin True
00:31:00.490 - 00:31:23.900
Everyone should notice that Shantae did not say Yaktrax because yak tracks should be retired as an outdoor piece of gear. There's your taking the garbage out sort of thing I'll throw on your foot like. Yeah, now give them their place.
They were, I think they were sort of first to market with this sort of not a crampon, but still give you traction. But the spike, the evolution of the spike is sort of push those to the side.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:23.980 - 00:31:36.460
Yeah, they're fairly lightweight now. They're fairly. You don't have to cobble your own shoe like Colin's describing. Just go buy one if you want a pair of these things.
But yeah, stay away from the yak tracks. Those are. That's city. That's city stuff. So don't take.
Colin True
00:31:36.460 - 00:31:43.660
Unless Yaktrax wants to sponsor our podcast, then. We love them. God, yak tracks, they're the best. I wear them to the beach.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:44.140 - 00:31:58.810
I love to wear them to get so I don't fall in the bathroom. All right, it's that time that we both look forward to and dread every podcast. It's time for our final question. All right, Colin, I'm prepared.
Are you prepared?
Colin True
00:31:59.370 - 00:32:02.730
Yeah. I mean, I was kind of there with the horny salmon, so I'm glad.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:02.810 - 00:32:03.930
I was ready to go home.
Colin True
00:32:04.010 - 00:32:05.690
I was ready to take off, you know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:05.850 - 00:32:09.850
All right, please, please, no feisty animal friends. What do you have for me?
Colin True
00:32:10.490 - 00:32:33.640
All right, last question of the day. Dear Gear Abby. In a world where the environment is more and more subject to change, industrialization and deterioration. Some big words in this.
How do you remain optimistic about the future of natural spaces? And what actions can one take towards protecting precious outdoor destinations? Sign Danielle with one L. This is an excellent question though.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:33.640 - 00:32:37.440
Damn. Danielle with one L. Coming in with a hard hitter. That is an excellent question.
Colin True
00:32:37.440 - 00:32:42.320
Industrialization and deterioration, man, back to back. Those are like 65 cent words.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:42.320 - 00:33:00.720
That's a lot of word in there. That is a full like $7 sentence. Thank you. Wow. See, you can, you can write in, you really can write in any question. We will do our next.
Send in anything. If you really want to know about salmon spawning, you know, hit me up. We'll see what we could do.
Maybe I find a marine biologist that can talk about it. Or like a fisheries expert.
Colin True
00:33:01.440 - 00:33:02.320
That's a good idea.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:02.480 - 00:33:42.620
If there's a salmon out there, if there's an orca out there. If you want to talk about what you guys are doing out in the ocean. Myrockfight gmail.com.
so actually, on a serious note, Danielle with one L, your question reminds me of this time, you know, some years ago when I was interviewing an award winning French environmentalist who is fighting for ocean health.
She won this huge award and I was talking to her for I think Outside magazine and I said, when you think about the work you've done, which was pretty incredible at that point. What gives you hope when you look five or ten years down the line? And her response to me was in a nice French accent.
Do you want me to give you a nice answer for your story or do you want the real answer?
Colin True
00:33:43.980 - 00:33:53.150
I feel bad for her and I'm so appreciative of her in that one sentence. That was really nice of her. But also that means. But he's probably had to do both of those things before.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:53.150 - 00:35:24.580
Oh, it was such a heavy moment. I have never before been filled with so much dread during an interview, ma'. Am. So I asked for her real answer.
Of course, you know, I wanted to know, all right, what are you hiding over there? I need to know, what am I going to cry about tonight? So she basically told me that the ocean was screwed.
You know, we've already reached the point, we've already tipped past the point of bringing it back to a healthy, super healthy state.
But the real hope, you know, lied not in thinking we were ever going to undo everything we've done, but in the work we could still do to slow future damage.
So the idea was, okay, we cannot correct for all of the sins of the past, but we can still put a good effort in towards slowing down the degradation here of the oceans. But in general, like, you know, you can extrapolate this to a larger environmental, you know, sense.
So I've honestly have kind of largely adopted her mindset, although I still remain a. A pretty stubborn optimist. For me, the hope remains in two ways.
So first, I have hope in people like you, Danielle, with one L who care enough to ask and care enough to act. And second, I have hope in the resilience of nature itself. I mean, all it takes is a walk past an abandoned building to see that nature.
And that is, you know, all the stuff in this world that's not created by humans will always find a way. We've, of course, screwed up with the, you know, we've screwed up the air, the water, the soil, the plants, the animals, the world round.
But if humans end up going the way of the dodo, I take solace in knowing that, according to my high school biology teacher, Mr. Dufek, the insects will still outlive us all.
Colin True
00:35:25.300 - 00:35:26.660
Shout out, Mr. Dufek.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:26.900 - 00:37:40.030
That man was also our football coach. He had a lot going on. Real, real man's man. So all this to say, I'm not a nihilist, okay? I think we can actually still affect change and plenty of it.
So while taking individual action is important, that's stuff like, you know, using your reusable tote bags instead of plastic ones at the store, comp posting food scraps, and in general, just buying less shit.
I think that if we truly want to protect all aspects of the natural world that we are also a part of, we got to really work on systemic change, which is what will actually move the needle.
So, Danielle with one l, in addition to taking local action, such as participating in stuff like bird counts and, you know, when people are going out trying to get a sense of what species are out there, planting pollinator gardens, contributing to nonprofits that are working on protecting and better connecting people to the land. Start also becoming more politically aware.
And by this I mean specifically learn about local, statewide, and federal legislation that affects environmental and human health. Call and write your members of Congress, as well as state and local legislators. Let them know how you feel about these proposed policies.
I mean, honestly propose your own. Like, get in there. Why not write op EDS for your local paper?
If you're a writer, divest your spending from companies, and this includes banks that fund environmental degradation. So this means actually researching where you're spending your money.
Consider becoming an active member of local and national orgs that are dedicated to protecting and Preserving the natural world. I mean, hell, consider running for office if you got the stomach for it. You know, I've thought about it myself.
And if all of that feels like too much, because those are all big picture things, Think of one place that you love and feel connected with. Learn the human and natural history of that place. Seek out the people and the groups working to protect and nurture that place today.
Give them your time, your money, your energy, whatever you can spare. Change comes in waves, sure. But I also think it comes in drips and drops.
And just to end this on the corniest note possible, go out there and make a splash, Danielle. Okay. It only takes a little bit. So I. I really think things start local and then you can just grow into an orca.
Start as a salmon and become an orca with the work you do to protect your favorite places outside.
Colin True
00:37:40.990 - 00:38:38.820
Yeah, look, it's cliche when I think of these topics. I take some solace in the fact that we are pretty much doing this to ourselves.
You know, there was some discovery, you know, little documentary show or something I remember seeing. And it basically said the premise was, if you eliminated human life from today, like, all humans just went away, what would happen on the planet?
And it showed kind of in a. Like a. Basically a time lapse, like digital recreation or whatever. And it didn't take that long for basically every trace of us to.
Relatively speaking, geologically speaking, like 10,000 years or something like that. We're like, okay, it's like we weren't even here, you know? Right. And in a way, it was like, that's really interesting.
I mean, the Earth has gone through so many big, horrible things over the course of its life that I truly believe if the Earth had a personality, it would look at us and be like, oh, my God, these people are annoying. But, you know, it's gonna. It's like. But I can outlast you too.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:38.820 - 00:38:39.540
Right? Right.
Colin True
00:38:39.540 - 00:38:40.980
And probably will.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:40.980 - 00:38:41.540
Yep.
Colin True
00:38:41.540 - 00:38:58.020
And so to that point of view, it's more about. Then we're focusing on this for us. Right. And how do we make it better for us? Because, you know, everybody, every generation, just.
We gotta get a little bit better, a little bit better. And that's all we can really do because we're talking about like 8 billion people. It's hard.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:58.020 - 00:38:58.500
It's hard.
Colin True
00:38:58.500 - 00:38:59.100
It is hard.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:59.100 - 00:39:26.190
But I think you also touched on. That's the whole idea of when you see now there's so many environmental groups, groups that don't just focus on, like, I've got to save the bees.
We've got to save the water. They also wrap in sort of a sense of stewardship of humanity as well. Like, how do we take care of each other? Because, yeah, you're right.
You hit the nail on the head. We're not doing this for the fish. We're doing this for us, ultimately, because we want nice things to be around. So.
And, you know, I think there are some altruistic people. I mean, I do want the nature to exist as nature exists.
Colin True
00:39:26.830 - 00:39:27.150
Same.
Shawnté Salabert
00:39:27.150 - 00:39:54.530
But, yeah, but we also. We're also a part of that. So I think that that's why when you see all this and.
And you've got people complaining like, oh, the Sierra Club is so woke. Well, first of all, the Sierra Club is. And that's just their thing, but, you know, the Audubon Society.
Oh, why are they talking about DEI like, it's all wrapped up? You know, we are also part of nature. We're just the ones that are screwing with it the most.
So if we can figure out how to take care of each other, which seems like an impossible task, maybe we can also figure out how to take care of the environment. Got to work on that.
Colin True
00:39:54.530 - 00:40:03.770
But I do think, even from.
I don't know if you want to call it marketing or pr, it makes more sense because it's hard to get people to care about the things that you care about. Right. So if, like, if I don't really give a shit about the birds.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:03.770 - 00:40:04.690
Damn it, Colin.
Colin True
00:40:04.690 - 00:40:31.760
And you're telling me, like, let me tell you why they're important. I might be like, yeah, that's cool. But I'm not. I don't care. I'm not going to change any of my habits.
Or if you say, hey, this is why it benefits humanity, or you. If you tell me why it benefits me, then I might be like, I'm listening. Tell me more. Right.
I mean, we're selfish, insecure creatures, play into those things to kind of change minds instead of being like, you should care about this because it's important. Well, why is it important? I'm trying to go to work and pick up my kids and do all this other stuff. Right. So.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:32.000 - 00:40:32.800
So are you gonna.
Colin True
00:40:32.800 - 00:40:33.080
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:33.080 - 00:40:37.790
You gonna find a good salmon supporting organization after the podcast and start?
Colin True
00:40:37.790 - 00:40:39.710
I'm gonna make sure those salmon can get down.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:39.950 - 00:41:10.600
Hell, yeah. Wow. Well, that's it for this episode of Gear Abby.
Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places, pastimes, possibly salmon, over to us@myrockfightmail.com and I'll do my best to answer them or find someone else who can. Today's episode was produced by David Karstad and Colin True. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. And I'm Chante Salibair.
And remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.
