How to Eat on Trail, Learn to Ski & Save Your Chest
- colin7931
- 12 hours ago
- 45 min read
In this episode of Gear Abby, host Shawnté Salabert and producer Colin True tackle three listener questions that sit right at the intersection of aspiration and anxiety: fueling a thru-hike, learning a notoriously expensive winter sport without going broke, and finding real support for runners with larger chests. Along the way, the conversation veers into enchilada fantasies, mountain-town economics, and the surprisingly complex science of sports bras.
Question 1: How Do You Actually Eat on a Thru-Hike?
Listener Perry, an AT-bound hopeful with a lot of questions, writes in looking for inspiration around trail food: favorites, failures, treats, regrets, and dreams.
Shawnté happily obliges. Drawing on her PCT experience (and her self-professed love of eating), she paints a vivid picture of long-distance trail fueling that’s equal parts practical and emotional. Salt becomes king, with ramen, Northside packets, and peanut-heavy snacks making frequent appearances. Home-dehydrated burrito bowls, Fritos, and the occasional hiker-box miracle round out the menu.
But it’s not all success stories. Pro bars and instant oatmeal eventually land on Shawnté’s personal “never again” list, while Spam meets an early demise after a single burnt-pan incident. The real takeaway? Trail food is deeply personal, wildly changeable, and often planned with the best intentions… months before reality sets in.
What does she miss most? Enchiladas. Always enchiladas.
Question 2: Can You Learn to Ski Without Destroying Your Budget?
Next up, Cheapskate Snowflake writes in with a familiar dilemma: living in a mountain town, wanting to ski, and being terrified of both injury and expense.
Shawnté breaks it down with empathy and research. Yes, skiing has a high barrier to entry — but there are ways in. Borrowing gear from friends, taking lessons at smaller local hills, and avoiding big-name resorts can dramatically reduce costs. She highlights bundled lesson programs (like Indie Pass’s Learn to Turn option) that include rentals, lift tickets, and instruction at independent mountains.
When it comes to clothing, Shawnté reassures listeners that most outdoorsy folks already own what they need: base layers, fleece, a shell, rain pants, and warm accessories. Fancy ski kits can wait. Colin chimes in with perspective from his own ski-town years, arguing that proximity is everything — skiing becomes worth it when it’s part of daily life, not a destination splurge.
The consensus: try it cheaply, learn safely, and only invest big if you fall in love.
Question 3: How Do You Run With a Larger Chest — Comfortably?
For the third question, Latisha writes in with a deeply relatable concern: returning to high-impact sports with a larger chest after years of discomfort.
Shawnté brings in an expert — Dr. LeJean Lawson (aka “Dr. Sports Bra”) — to unpack decades of sports-bra science. What follows is a masterclass in fit, function, and biomechanics. Dr. Lawson explains why encapsulation bras (separate cups) matter for D+ sizes, why adjustable straps and bands are critical, and how fabric stretch can actually increase bounce instead of reducing it.
They also dig into chafing, heat zones, lamination vs. stitching, and the importance of cup-and-band sizing over vague small/medium/large labels. Specific brand recommendations follow, including high-support options from Nike and women-owned brand Wazelle.
The key message: pain-free movement is possible — but only if bras are designed (and chosen) with real bodies and real motion in mind.
Question 4: How Do You Break Into the Outdoor Industry?
Finally, Michael submits what can only be described as a full cover letter, asking how to land a marketing job in the outdoor industry.
Shawnté and Colin offer candid, constructive advice. Landing a dream brand straight out of college is possible, but unlikely — and that’s okay. They encourage Michael to think expansively: entry-level marketing roles, agency work, freelance projects, nonprofit comms, resort jobs, parks departments, and gear shops all build relevant experience.
They also point listeners toward practical resources like Patagonia’s careers site, Basecamp Outdoors’ job listings, CoolJobs.com, and even local or state government opportunities. The takeaway is pragmatic but hopeful: build skills, stay flexible, and don’t underestimate smaller roles as stepping stones.
The Takeaway
How to Eat on Trail, Learn to Ski & Save Your Chest is a reminder that outdoor growth rarely happens all at once. Whether you’re dialing in trail nutrition, testing a new sport, reclaiming comfort in your body, or plotting a career path, Shawnté and Colin emphasize patience, experimentation, and self-compassion.
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Episode Transcript:
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:03.200 - 00:00:08.520
You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find, like the.
Lajean Lawson
00:00:08.520 - 00:00:10.000
What and the why and the how.
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:10.000 - 00:01:15.110
Stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks. She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.
Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abby, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I'm outdoor ed educator and writer Shante Salibair, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all, because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, here's how it works.
If you're just tuning in, if you're a newbie, or if you've forgotten us, which would make me very sad, you are going to send Questions to dear gearabbymail.com I'm going to flip through them. I'm going to answer a few each week here on the show. And as always, joining me today, you've been waiting for this moment. I know it.
My partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and a guy who honestly has better hair than I do most days, Colin. True.
Colin True
00:01:15.510 - 00:01:36.370
You know, Shantay, not to just go on and on about Southern California anymore, but you know, we've entered that time of year when I went for a little hike in the mountain near my house. See this today? And to my left, I'm like, ah, look, there's the Pacific Ocean. I look to my right and there's the San Bernardino's covered in snow.
And I'm like, my goodness. And, and I'm in shorts and a T shirt. This is the best.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:36.530 - 00:01:47.130
I know not to brag, although I will say my mom and my sister were texting me earlier and they're like, gas here is $2.17. So that was rude because it is not that here. Yeah, see, I don't.
Colin True
00:01:47.130 - 00:01:53.130
I don't play that game. I'll pay. I'll have. I got to look at the Pacific Ocean and snowy mountain. I'll pay $5 for gas.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:53.130 - 00:02:15.470
You're right. That's fair. Okay, to be fair, my sister does live walking distance to Lake Michigan, so it's not the same, which I once called the ocean, by the way.
We were riding bikes from my aunt and uncle's house in Cederberg, and we were taking one of the rail trails out to the beach. And I was like, oh, look, there's the ocean. She's like, sister, Are you okay? I'm like, yeah, no, I know where we are. It's okay.
Colin True
00:02:15.550 - 00:02:20.110
Well, it may be pretty there, but your, your sister is not wearing shorts today, I guarantee that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:20.110 - 00:02:21.870
No, no, my stepdad might be the.
Colin True
00:02:21.870 - 00:02:24.830
That's true. Stepdad. Mike is just, you know, he's always wearing shorts. He runs hot.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:24.830 - 00:02:53.810
That's a Midwestern dad thing, I think. Oh, man. Did you see.
Before we launch into today's questions, did you see the ever evolving news we've talked about the national park passes and the artist who was selling stickers. And since then, a bunch of other people have kind of jumped into the fray.
But also, I don't want to say who, but there's a very thin skinned person who may or may not have their photo on the new national park pass who would be very upset if you put a sticker over it.
Colin True
00:02:53.810 - 00:03:03.390
So, so literally thin skinned if the news reports about getting nicked by people's springs are to be believed. Yeah, like, so now you can't do that. But there's solutions for that now.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:03.390 - 00:03:04.310
There's so many solutions.
Colin True
00:03:04.470 - 00:03:04.790
Right.
Lajean Lawson
00:03:04.790 - 00:03:06.190
People are making slips, right?
Colin True
00:03:06.190 - 00:03:06.550
Slips.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:06.790 - 00:03:10.630
Yeah. You would put a trading card in. What are those things? Like a little pocket.
Colin True
00:03:10.630 - 00:03:26.610
It's like a little sleeve, like a little plastic sleeve that has something printed on the COVID of it. So when you slide your national park pass in, it just covers it all up.
And then if they desperately want to see that you haven't defaced, you know, the faces on the actual pass, you can pull it back out. So there you go, people. There's still an option.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:26.850 - 00:03:50.170
That's right. Be free. All right, Colin, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good about today. I don't know why I'm not sure. I did take a 15 minute walk.
Did I tell you I've been doing this every day? I take like a little 15 minute walk in the middle of the work day.
Yeah, it revs me up so I don't just Conk out at 3:00pm so I'm, I'm feeling a little, I'm like high on fresh air right now with.
Colin True
00:03:50.170 - 00:04:04.350
A, with a kind of the insane news cycle. I had a moment today. I went through. I punted everybody on Instagram.
I don't want to get rid of Instagram, but basically, if your name wasn't last name isn't true and you don't live in my house, you're out. So sorry, Shantae.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:04.350 - 00:04:05.310
You're out following me.
Colin True
00:04:05.870 - 00:04:15.150
Yep. And I unfollowed everybody and nobody's following me.
And then I also deleted a couple other social media apps from my phone and it was quite liberating, let me tell you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:15.310 - 00:04:18.750
How are you gonna. How are you gonna send me. You're not gonna be able to send me memes anymore.
Colin True
00:04:18.750 - 00:04:27.630
I can text them to you. Anybody who I. Anybody. I still have all your phone numbers, so we can text. Why do I need multiple ways to get in touch with you?
I'll still text you funny things.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:28.030 - 00:04:31.370
This is a good reminder to put my notifications for you on silent.
Colin True
00:04:31.370 - 00:04:34.330
There you go. Good idea. Because I'll do it at like 3:30 in the morning too.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:34.330 - 00:04:42.010
Yes, you will. I know you. All right, well, enough about us. How about we get to the listeners who like to send us questions? What's the first one?
Colin True
00:04:42.490 - 00:05:09.350
Okay, this is a good one. Here we go. Dear Gear Abby, I'm stoked to hike the AT this year. AT question coming. Here we go. I have my gear figured out. I'm.
But I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to eat out there. I'll probably just buy stuff as I go along, but maybe you can give me some inspiration. What was your favorite thing to eat on the PC?
Was there anything you hated eating? Was there anything you wish you had? Is there anything like a steady stream of pizza and burritos, you know?
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:09.350 - 00:05:10.190
Yes, true.
Colin True
00:05:10.190 - 00:05:22.390
Is there anything special you packed in your resupplies as a special treat? I have so many questions, but I'll start there. I would sign off with my trail name, but I don't have one yet. So for. So for now, yours truly, Perry.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:22.950 - 00:05:28.470
Wow. Well, Perry, for now I think I'm gonna pre trail name you the quizmaster. Since that was.
Colin True
00:05:28.690 - 00:05:33.890
That is about dope name, trail name. I want to be the quiz Master. It's like you're like a super villain.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:33.890 - 00:05:41.810
Well, all you have to do is just ask me a long list of questions one after the other. You too could be the quiz Master. But you're the enforcer.
Colin True
00:05:41.970 - 00:05:44.530
If you're. I'll take the enforcer. That's really.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:44.609 - 00:05:45.770
You could have a different name for the quiz.
Colin True
00:05:45.770 - 00:05:57.690
The Quiz Master. You know the. That's how you have to say it when you introduce yourself to people on the trail. Like, what's your trail name?
You have to take a beat, look very serious and go the Quizmaster. You can't just say the Quizmaster. You know, that would be no good.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:57.690 - 00:06:29.100
All right, I hope you're listening, Perry. Take some notes. Lucky for you though, I love talking about food, so can confirm that's true. Colin knows it. He's been around me while I've eaten.
He's watched me put food inside. I will talk about it all the time. In fact, I actually wrote a fun little.
I think it's fun little poetic essay about trail food for volume two of the Campfire Stories series. It's a book series the Mountaineers put out. And this essay is called On Trail, We Dream of Enchiladas. That's right.
So, you know, one of the answers to my question is right there.
Colin True
00:06:29.100 - 00:06:30.380
Let's start with enchiladas.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:30.380 - 00:06:48.260
That's right. That's right.
I could honestly probably just read it here verbatim since it kind of answers all your questions, but I think Colin would probably zone out, so I'm just gonna answer you normally. I'll read it aloud to you sometime if that's what. I'm gonna leave you a message. Colin, I'm just gonna read that essay to you as a voicemail.
One long voicemail.
Colin True
00:06:48.260 - 00:06:49.500
I would. I would enjoy that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:50.090 - 00:07:54.980
Okay, good to know. Noted. Anyway, so, all right, let's start with favorite things. So I was an absolute fiend for salt. You are sweating your ass off out there.
So I ended up eating a lot of ramen noodles. And if anybody has listened long enough to understand that I can't digest gluten, you know what? Just know that it did not come without consequences.
But I did. I like doctoring them with peanut butter, soy sauce, sriracha. I eat. Even added a few real live peanuts here and there. I also made little.
Like, I have a dehydrator at home, so I dehydrated burrito bowls with rice and pinto beans and cilantro, tomato, you know, all sorts of good stuff. Corn taco seasoning, and, of course, cheese. All right, you know, I'm bringing cheese. That's where I'm.
And I ate that whole thing with Fritos, like, twice a week on the trail. It was so good. I was so glad I sent resupplies for that alone.
And I also ate my body weight in the cheddar broccoli, north sides, those little packets that I just poured water in like a heathen and ate it. I don't know that it was good for my health to do that, but it's probably not good for my health to eat it anyway.
Colin True
00:07:54.980 - 00:07:57.500
So we're 2,000 miles, you know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:58.060 - 00:08:13.240
You know, but yeah, I also. Speaking of salt, but like a different kind of salt. Favorite things. I found a bunch of payday candy bars in some hiker buckets along the Way.
And for people who. Well, go ahead, Colin. You want.
Lajean Lawson
00:08:13.240 - 00:08:13.440
No.
Colin True
00:08:13.440 - 00:08:20.200
Just to say payday. Very underrated candy bar, I would say. And I'm a big peanut guy. That's why I probably like it so much. But the nougat in a payday is awesome.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:20.520 - 00:08:23.640
Oh, I just love you saying nougat. Say it again.
Colin True
00:08:24.440 - 00:08:25.080
Nougat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:27.800 - 00:08:28.280
Okay.
Colin True
00:08:28.280 - 00:08:32.760
Is that my trail name now? Am I switching it from the importance to nougat? Nougat's a pretty good trail name.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:33.000 - 00:08:36.200
Yeah. You have to say it, though. I can't because I would be like, what's up?
Colin True
00:08:36.200 - 00:08:36.920
I'm nougat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:36.920 - 00:08:39.640
Nougat. It doesn't work.
Colin True
00:08:39.640 - 00:08:40.600
Not nougat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:41.180 - 00:08:41.740
Nuke it.
Colin True
00:08:41.740 - 00:08:44.540
That's what you do after you eat all the things you're not supposed to eat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:44.540 - 00:09:09.140
Yeah, it's true. It's true. I did. I. I was in Mammoth. A girl I met on trail who's now one of my best friends, Kat, she invited me to stay with her family for a night.
And I. After I had two cheeseburgers, by the way, I don't eat red meat. So I went through every.
Every single sheet of toilet paper in their cabin, and I just sat on the couch, and when the first person woke up, I'm like, I need to get you more toilet paper.
Colin True
00:09:09.700 - 00:09:12.100
And now you don't go to their house anymore?
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:12.900 - 00:09:52.480
Well, it was a rental. They were just renting it. So, no, I've not come back. But yeah. Anyway, I'd say also string cheese.
You know, now I'm a little bit more of a baby bell girl, but although it's a little annoying to carry the wax, I loved when I had the first day on trail and you could carry something heavier. I'd get those little butoni. Butoni. However the hell you say it, Tortellini's that you put in the. You know what I mean? Like the fridge.
I was going to say the fridge department of the grocery store. I'm. I'm an alien. This is my first day on Earth. Whatever. Yeah, but I think my favorite meal of all was actually an impromptu quesadilla.
Little dang quesadilla that my hiking buddy MacGyver and I conjured up.
Colin True
00:09:52.480 - 00:09:53.600
MacGyver making a comeback.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:53.760 - 00:10:05.460
You look. We got to bring MacGyver on here and there. Some stales. Okay.
It was stale tortillas, craft singles, and canned chicken that we found in the hiker buckets at Muir Trail Ranch. Oh, it was so good.
Lajean Lawson
00:10:06.180 - 00:10:06.580
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:06.580 - 00:10:20.940
We basically just assembled it and let it sit out in the sun to quote, bake. And I'm shocked I didn't die from salmonella or something, but it was delicious. I've made of hearty stock, okay? I can. I can sustain and with.
Colin True
00:10:20.940 - 00:10:23.620
Is that how you felt when you were using all of those poor people's toilet paper?
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:24.420 - 00:11:03.800
Well, not so much. Not for about 48 hours. Took a while to regain my strength after that, but. All right, let's. Let's get back to Perry here. We gotta answer.
We gotta answer all 90 of their questions. So I'm gonna try to barrel through here. Perry. Things I hated. Honestly, after a week of trying to eat those big ass chunky pro bars. Oh, disgusting.
I developed this deep aversion. I have not eaten them a decade later. No, they're not. No, they're not ptsd. I've been.
Honestly, I just got sick of stuff that I kept putting in all my resupplies. So besides pro bars, it was like instant oatmeal. It took me a few years to start eating that again.
Colin True
00:11:04.040 - 00:11:05.960
This sounded like a good idea in February.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:06.200 - 00:11:34.540
Yeah, I'll just eat instant oatmeal every day. Yeah. And for a brief period of time, I also thought I was going to eat Spam every day for breakfast.
All it took was me burning it to the pan once and the rest of it got put in hiker boxes. And as far as. All right, let's see, Perry, you asked about treats, special treats, and your special resupplies. Well, I did that.
I think my number one favorite were these chocolate covered potato chips that Trader Joe's used to put out. Do you remember those, Colin?
Colin True
00:11:34.540 - 00:11:34.940
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:35.100 - 00:12:41.670
Oh, they were so good. I annihilate. I think I ate 1 within 30 minutes of opening it. The first time I had those in my resupply, I was just like a absolute monster.
I also loved packing in a heavier meal that I could eat. That first night, one of the nights I had a very.
I would describe it as a potato forward fancy clam chowder, which probably, maybe doesn't sound appetizing to most hikers, but it was so good, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, it didn't. It maybe wasn't the smell everyone around me wanted, but it tasted great. All right, let's see. Perry.
Perry, I think there's one more question, right? Just one more. The 75th question that Perry has asked. I think the things I most wish I had out there besides enchiladas. No, just kidding.
It was enchiladas. That's the thing I missed the most. I would have dreams about a changing my Clothes.
Just wearing any outfit that wasn't the same outfit I was wearing day on end for months. And I just wanted enchiladas so bad.
It was actually the first thing I ate when I came off the trail and just sat down at a Mexican restaurant, whichever one was closest.
Colin True
00:12:41.750 - 00:12:42.470
Right, right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:42.710 - 00:12:55.230
Can you get me some enchiladas, please? I must feed myself. Yeah. I don't know, Colin, what do you think you'd miss most if you were out on trail?
If I forced you to go hike for weeks on end, I mean, I'd probably.
Colin True
00:12:55.230 - 00:13:04.790
The cheeseburger. This is standard stuff. The burritos, the enchiladas, it's just all the kind of, you know, heavy, meaty, you know, bready, cheesy. Right.
You know, all that stuff. I think.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:05.030 - 00:13:07.190
So basically the top of the new food pyramid.
Colin True
00:13:07.190 - 00:13:38.360
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, exactly. Yes, I did notice that this week as well. Thank you. Another reason why I purged a lot of social media, my phone.
Like, I want more, less opportunities for crap like this to enter into my eyeballs now. But I think, you know, the last time I did a. Anything even close to this was I did a couple of night bike packing trips a couple of years ago.
And for that, because it was in. I knew it was gonna be in the desert and it was gonna be a lot of weight and water, so I just did the.
A bag of tortillas, one of those, like, squeeze things of refried beans, and a bag of like.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:38.680 - 00:13:40.520
What is a squeeze thing of refried beans?
Colin True
00:13:40.520 - 00:13:44.120
It's like, instead of it in a can, it's like. It's. It's a squeezy pouch of refried beans.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:44.590 - 00:13:46.070
Oh, so just a bag of refried beans.
Colin True
00:13:46.070 - 00:13:46.830
Yeah. There you go. Sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:46.830 - 00:13:52.190
Okay, I'm just going to squeeze thing. I'm imagining like a ketchup, like one of those things at a restaurant.
Colin True
00:13:53.710 - 00:14:20.030
Instead of being in a can, you can squeeze it. Right. And then a, you know, like a pouch of chicken. Right. You get the chicken in a bag as opposed to having a canned and.
Yeah, I tell you what, at the end of the day, that all went together really, really great. And I didn't need to heat anything up. Didn't need to carry an extra stove because I really didn't want to carry the extra weight. And it just.
I think it goes to everything you were just saying is that, like, man, when you're on trail, it's funny. The bar thing, I think is real because, I mean, I used to work for pro Bar. I still think that they're the best.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:20.030 - 00:14:21.350
Oh, that's. Now I know.
Colin True
00:14:21.670 - 00:14:47.630
No, but even, like, doing ultramarathons by hour three, that kind of flavor of a bar, that. Because it's all sweet and it's brown rice syrup and all this stuff, and it's everything on paper that you want or need, not in your.
God, I just can't do it. I can't do the sweetness and the textures and those kinds of things. So, yeah, I think. I don't know. I think you kind of nailed everything.
I'm right there with you. With. Everything I would want is everything you nailed. For sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:47.870 - 00:14:55.950
It's what I aim for in life. I'm always. I feel like. I'm always hungry. When we record an episode, we do.
Colin True
00:14:55.950 - 00:14:56.670
It late in the day.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:56.750 - 00:15:08.990
We do. We do. In my defense. But also, I just have a very. My grandma once told me when I was a kid, she's like, I think you have a tapeworm.
For the longest time, I wondered if I did, but I wasn't that concerned because I really enjoy eating.
Colin True
00:15:08.990 - 00:15:10.460
So did you name it?
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:11.820 - 00:15:13.100
The Quiz master.
Colin True
00:15:13.260 - 00:15:14.620
That's the name of your tapeworm?
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:14.860 - 00:15:18.700
No, Perry. I'm sorry. You can keep the trail name.
Lajean Lawson
00:15:19.100 - 00:15:19.740
All right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:20.380 - 00:15:25.260
My tapeworm. And I would like to. My tapeworm. And I would like to know what the next question is.
Colin True
00:15:25.260 - 00:15:34.780
Okay, next question. Dear Gear Abby, I moved to a mountain town this year. On that note, your episode with Katie Burrell was very funny. Yeah, we. We agree.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:35.100 - 00:15:35.820
Tell us again.
Colin True
00:15:36.060 - 00:16:01.590
And I really, really, really want to try skiing. Three reallys. The only.
The only thing stopping me, besides the fact that I'm afraid of looking like an idiot, is that it seems like a real financial investment, and I don't even know if I'll enjoy it. Is there any way to try it out on the cheap?
I'm okay investing in gear if I end up liking it, but I'm living on an elementary school's teacher salary and can't really. I can't really screw up my budget on a maybe, thanks so much sign. Cheapskate. Snowflake.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:04.070 - 00:16:32.840
Snowflake. Or should I call you cheapskate? I don't want to assume which one you like better. Great minds think alike.
Because as I was listening to that, I'm like, listen, I, too, have not tried downhill skiing. I love cross country, but I have not tried. I've gotten very close to trying downhill skiing, but I am honestly afraid I'll bust my ass.
And there's a high likelihood that would happen. But also, I agree with you. It seems expensive as hell. I think it's one of the sports.
And Colin, you could correct me if you think I'm wrong, but maybe besides cycling, like one of the sports that has the highest financial barrier to entry.
Colin True
00:16:33.050 - 00:16:37.050
I have a lot of opinions on resort skiing. I mean, but are you qualified to answer this question?
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:37.370 - 00:16:55.770
Well, you're. I'm going to bring you in. I'm going to tap you in at some point here, I think. But I will. I'll explain why. Yeah, yeah.
Qualified to answer this question.
I did actually look into this not that long ago because I did in fact, have visions of becoming a girl who slices beautiful turns before heading over to Apres. At the opera.
Colin True
00:16:56.650 - 00:16:57.130
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:57.610 - 00:18:21.050
At the lodge. And my very cute, you know, cozy sweater to some hot chocolate and whatnot.
And honestly, I came away from all of this googling and researching and asking people who do it feeling like the. Yes. There was actually a way to learn to ski on a budget, even if I broke all my bones doing it. So I, I think it's possible. And I'll.
I'll explain what I think and then I'm going to ask Colin what he thinks. Or you can interject at any time, which you do anyway. So. So. All right, so, cheapskate, I'm going to call you cheapskate.
First of all, it sounds like, like me, you're a total newbie. So you're going to want to learn how to ski. That is a pretty important part of this recipe. So the most affordable. So if we're gonna talk affordable.
So the most affordable way is to probably just ask all of your new mountain town friends, and that is the nice ones, not the jerks that Katie talked about. Ask if any of them have extra gear to lend. Ask if any of them can take you somewhere safe.
Not one of their big, like, black diamond runs that they love to kind of teach you the basics, how to put on your boots and skis, how to get out of the skis. You know, using poles, going uphill, downhill, sideways, how to safely fall.
And if you're food like me, the thing I was most excited to learn was how to french fry. Like, when to french fry, when to pizza slice.
Like, I just like thinking about that because I could pizza slice and french fry on the hill and then go to the lodge restaurant afterwards and do it again for real.
Colin True
00:18:21.130 - 00:18:27.170
I think they, those terms were invented more for children. That's, you know, well. But I'm glad you're getting something out of this, too.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:27.170 - 00:19:11.310
I'm a child, so. I am a child skier. Just a wee taught But I do also think that, quote, being affordable isn't always the best way to try a new sport.
So honestly, unless your buddies are ski instructors, I do think it's worth it to sign up for lessons that include equipment rental and lift tickets to the more expensive things you'll encounter out there.
This is, Colin kind of alluded to it minutely, but this is usually a little more affordable at the smaller hills as opposed to those big fancy ass resorts. So look around your area.
You're in a mountain town, chances are you know there's something, even if it's not in your town but nearby, that's more of like a local's hill, you know.
Colin True
00:19:11.390 - 00:19:11.870
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:12.830 - 00:20:59.120
And you can usually find half day or full day lessons and some places even do multi day. One of the better deals I actually found when I was looking is the Learn to Turn pass, which great name and it's offered by Indie Pass.
And they cover three days of rentals, lift tickets and lessons at a bunch of independent hills, the smaller, you know, places around the country.
And it's listed as costing $189 whether you're a kid or an adult, which is honestly kind of insane to me because a lot of the tickets at these days seem to be somewhere between 100 and 300 just for a lift ticket, which I don't even understand the math on that. Like I feel like I got into the wrong line of work. Like maybe I should have become a ski resort mogul. I don't know.
I think as far as outfitting yourself affordably, so we've got, we got lessons covered. Outfitting yourself affordably, honestly, I think getting dressed for skiing probably the easiest part.
Especially if you already live in a cold climate and you get outside sometimes you don't really need anything fancy to ski. Like I, the times I have gone to the ski hill, it's like moisture wicking base layers.
I got my little woolies on, I have for me I bring a fleece, like a little insulating layer. You can have it when you're not moving. You don't want to overheat when you are.
So maybe take it off and then some sort of weather resistant, weatherproof shell. So I don't have proper snow pants right now, so I just use rain pants, honestly. And I don't have a fancy ski snowboard jacket.
I just use a shell that I layer over the fleece. So it's really, you know, I wear some gaiters to kind of close off the bottom over my boots and warm socks, warm hat you know, warm gloves.
You get the picture. I know it looks cool when you see all those people wearing bikinis and big fur hats in the movies, but, you know, maybe not for your first time out.
Colin True
00:20:59.360 - 00:21:00.920
That's more of a spring skiing thing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:00.920 - 00:21:02.660
I think, you know, that makes sense.
Colin True
00:21:02.660 - 00:21:17.820
But if you're, if you're outdoorsy already, you probably have 90% of what you need to go skiing. The one thing would be maybe a pair of like, shell pants that can fit over a ski boot that if you're, if the ones you have don't.
But even then, that's negotiable. You probably have everything in your closet you need to actually make it through a day of skiing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:17.980 - 00:22:11.080
Yeah, exactly. Especially if you're just trying it out, like that's what you asked. So if you love it, you're gonna invest.
And, and if you do decide to invest, you can, you can also kind of find stuff affordably. You don't need to go hard unless you really want to.
So considering your location, you might actually score at some of the thrift shops, you know, used gear shops, consignment shops. I would say you can also shop after ski season has pretty much run its course. See if you get some sweet discounts.
You could try local buy nothing groups, especially in your area. Facebook marketplace. Use gear sites online. Although I would probably personally want to try stuff on first.
But yeah, I don't think, like, even though if you decide to continue on with skiing at Colin, you can correct me if you're wrong, but it's like, yeah, you're going to invest probably in a good pair of boots and skis and lift tickets. That's going to be probably your biggest spend. But you know, if you really love it, the money is probably worth it.
Colin True
00:22:11.160 - 00:22:53.860
Yeah, the lift tickets are the kind of the thing you have to re up every year. That's, that's, that definitely costs the most.
I think to her point about looking like an idiot doing it, number one, if you follow Shantae's advice and do a lesson pass, you're. You're covered there because you can wear whatever you want to that. And now you're in the lesson group and who cares? No one's expecting it, right?
No one. You're with a bunch of other people, whether they're little kids or they're other adults. Yeah.
Doing your French fries and your, and your, and your pizza and there you go. And then, and then if you decide if you like it, then you can take care of the. How you look after the fact.
You Know, I definitely have a lot of opinions about resort skiing, mostly because I don't like to pay for recreation like golfing. If like Shantae, if you and I went golfing right now, we'd probably have a lot of fun going.
We won't, but I mean, we would have fun because it'd be fun to hang out and go golfing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:53.860 - 00:22:55.180
Yeah. Just because we're hanging out.
Colin True
00:22:55.180 - 00:24:15.950
Right. But if I buy spend fifteen hundred dollars on a set of golf clubs, I don't want to have to pay a minimum of $100 to use them every time.
And I feel the same way about res.
Now, all that being said, if you move to a mountain town, you have to do this because when I lived in Park City, we had ski passes and it usually you can get local passes and things like that. And we went. I mean, some days we skied every day of the week. You want a minimum of a couple of days a week during ski season. And it was awesome.
And it was the best way to enjoy skiing because you could, it's right there. Once you do bite the bullet and buy your annual pass, then you've got it.
And now you just need to go get your skis and your boots and you're good to go. And it's just you won't have this opportunity again.
As soon as I left that town, I thought, I'm going to keep skiing the new place where I lived, and it was like an hour away. And I genuinely stopped skiing, you know, because it wasn't that important to me. But when it was there, it was great. So definitely do it.
The other thing too is on, the rentals are great. There'll be used skis you can buy.
You know, when my daughter was young, the local ski shops had a program where we basically did a season rental and then we brought them back at the end of the year. And then the next year you went back and you got another set or whatever it was. So, you know, I think they have those for adults as well.
So if you don't want to buy your own, there's all sorts of options out there. So I would say you're in a. You move to a mountain town if it has a ski resort.
You know, there's things we could talk about for sure, but definitely do this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:16.830 - 00:24:32.340
All right. What Colin said. I can't believe I just said that.
Colin, I do love talking about skiing an activity I do not do, but maybe we could talk about something I do do. I do do. What do you have for me next?
Colin True
00:24:33.060 - 00:24:34.780
You Said doo doo. So I want to point that out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:34.780 - 00:24:37.380
Okay, I know you want to point that out. We know how you operate.
Colin True
00:24:37.860 - 00:25:10.160
All right, here's the next question. Dear Gear Abby, I'm a cyclist hoping to transition into triathlon in the coming year.
I also have a larger chest, 38 D to double D depending on the bra, and I need to find a good, supportive sports bra. I ran track in high school but stopped once I filled out because it hurt to run. So I'm a bit nervous to take on a high impact sport again.
But I'd really love to give triathlon a shot. Hopefully there have been advancements in bra manufacturing since my high school days.
Any recommendations on brands or features that I should keep in mind? Thank you. Signed, Latisha.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:10.720 - 00:26:14.560
Oh, man.
Well, first, Leticia, I am cheering you on from the sidelines because I can barely ride a bike, I am a terrible swimmer, and my running leaves a lot to be desired. So I bow to anybody who somehow manages to do a good job of all three.
Second, even though I do, in fact, this is something I do do, I do wear sports bras. Thanks. But I will say thanks for recommendation from friend of the pod, Andrea Kelly of Make plus Equal.
I've got somebody way more qualified to answer your question, and that is Dr. LeJean Lawson, aka Dr. Sports Bra, best name ever.
So you might think I'm kidding, but she has earned that title with four decades worth of work in sports bra science, including running quote Sports Bra Investigations for Champion Athletic Wear, and serving as founder and director of the Bra Lab, which combines scientific study and consumer research into building a better sports bra for everybody. And chances are, if you've ever worn a sports bra that you actually liked, Lejean's work probably influenced some part of its design.
So, Legene, welcome to the pod and thanks for joining us today.
Lajean Lawson
00:26:15.360 - 00:26:46.060
Oh, thank you. I'm so glad to be here. And I can't tell you how much I love this question and the fact that Leticia is reaching out. Our bras are so personal.
A lot of implications for breasts and bras in our society, so we often don't even want to talk about it. And the second thing is, she knows her size.
We are well down the road to finding her a great bra already because many women have fear of getting fit and actually knowing what size they should be in. So, yeah, I love it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:46.060 - 00:26:57.850
It's so true. Yeah. Yeah, we got a good start here. Well, let's break down Leticia's question into a couple different points.
I'd say maybe you could start with any tips in general on how to find the right sports bra for your body.
Lajean Lawson
00:26:59.610 - 00:31:50.480
Yeah, Number one, if you are in that D cup or larger category, generally you're going to want to pick what we call an encapsulation bra, which is two separate cups. I call it divide and conquer, as opposed to what I wear as a B cup, which is a compression bra, which is like, you know, cinch them down.
It's just easier to control breast motion that way you don't have your breasts rubbing against each other during your exercise. Trapping heat, sweat, all of that down the center front, down the center back. Those are your key heat and sweat zones.
So you want to make sure that you can get separation and ventilation there. So that would be. Number one, definitely is looking for separate cups.
Number two, I will say, is straps and bottom band or waistband that are adjustable. This is really critical for comfort. I mean, even all of us through the course of the month, the season. I mean, this is just after New Year's.
I mean, we've all gained a couple of pounds, right? And our sizes change over the cycle of the month.
But being able to adjust the tightness of the waistband and also adjust the straps because having a stiffer strap will help to prevent breast motion. So that's really something to look for. Also a little wider strap. It's kind of pressure per square inch. So a wider strap.
If you doubled the width of the strap cup, you can almost cut the pressure in half. It's not exact, but it's good. You also want to look in the cup areas.
Minimal stretch as opposed to a lot of loosey, goosey, stretchy, spandex sort of thing. I mean, actually it's kind of like pulling a rubber band and letting go.
If you have a lot of breast mass and you stretch that bra fabric with each step, you can actually accelerate your breast motion because of the stretchiness of the fabric. So you want to look for that firmer cup, minimal stretch. Also top of the shoulder, cushioning on the strap because there is significant weight.
Since I did my first research 40 years ago, there's so much amazing research now on breasts in bras. The interaction and even how we are able to evaluate, evaluate that with scientific methods. Another thing, chafing.
And if, yeah, the under boob chafe. If you're doing more than 5k even, I mean, I mean, I would say even more than 5k, but especially 10k.
If you're going to be doing a triathlon where you have a longer distance, you start getting into chafing. Problems.
That slight moving back and forth of bra components, that little piece of rough stitching that you thought was not a problem when you were looking at the bra in the store. Now, over time, it's like little sandpaper and literally wears off the outer layers of skin.
I remember after my first marathon, I got in the shower and, oh, all the stinging is like, what was that? And I'd been rubbed by my bra.
So really inspect all the inside of a bra before you buy it to look for anything that might turn into a source of irritation and literally attacking your skin. Another thing is that front neckline. I call it the no fly zone because of the ground reaction forces.
When we run, sometimes actually our breasts fly up more than they fly down. So literally, I've seen and tested bras that had, like, a little piece of boning or something or stabilization in their.
I have a bra here on my desk that I'm working on developing where putting in that extra reinforcement just to keep the girls down. It's like, gotta have you stay down.
The other thing is, if you think of the whole bra, it's sort of a system where the waistband is like, sort of the foundation, and there's the main part, the cups, the back, and then the straps kind of push the front and back together.
So you need a waistband again that's going to be adjustable, that will stay put as all the various other components of the bra are working against that. And that adjustability, again, is just super important. The other thing is fabrics. Chafing is just such an issue.
And fabrics, as they get damp, tend to become even more abrasive. You get hot, you sweat. The sweat includes makes. Gives you more abrasion. So firm, fast, dry fabrics. We have a lot of new fabrics.
I noted in Leticia's question, you know, have there been any advancements since she was in high school? I mean, okay, I was in High School. 1964 through 68. Lots of advancements.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:50.480 - 00:32:08.540
Have there been advancements? I sure hope so. I will say, before you jump into this, I do think like women. I love hearing you talk about all this.
I love knowing you have this 40 years of experience. Because I think in general, like, women get the short end of the stick when it comes to innovation. And it just.
It makes me so happy for you to say, like, no, no, we're working on it.
Lajean Lawson
00:32:09.020 - 00:33:08.440
We are absolutely working on it. I was. Although when I did my first, got my first, granted my first research back in 1984. This is a physical therapist.
I keep this on my desk for Inspiration. The grant money was wasted. We got an award.
You could have spent the grant money better by strapping the gear to yourself and jogging a few laps, suggesting the most comfortable fit. This is after I had been rubbed raw in multiple marathons that I had run.
So to have this topic taken seriously and where we are now is just absolutely amazing. For example, some of the lamination technologies that avoid stitching so you don't get the chafing.
I'm not a fan of a lot of lamination that goes up in the cups or covers a lot of surface, because lamination is basically glue, and it will close the pores on the fabric layers to the passage of heat and sweat, which we don't want that. So white touch with the lamination. Perfect.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:08.440 - 00:33:19.600
I've never. Oh, sorry. I've never heard the term lamination before described in a piece of clothing like that. Are you. So this is. Could you just describe it to me?
And like. Like I'm a child and I have never touched a bra before.
Lajean Lawson
00:33:20.240 - 00:33:23.200
So I don't know if you can see.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:23.600 - 00:33:25.560
I can see Legine is holding up.
Lajean Lawson
00:33:25.560 - 00:33:28.000
A bra and this part is mesh.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:28.320 - 00:33:28.800
Okay.
Lajean Lawson
00:33:28.800 - 00:34:49.439
And then it has a binding on each side. But instead of stitching that binding on, there are lamination materials like Bemis.
Bemis is a really famous one where they actually melt the layers together so that aren't the stitching and the bar tacking and all of that. So looking for the, you know, that really smooth inside experience.
The other thing with Leticia, who is, you know, 38 dd, I always say, do look for that cup chest sizing system, your waistband size and your cup size. Now, again, most women don't like to be measured. Measuring systems can be super confusing.
Anyone who wants me to respond with an easy way to actually measure can always go to my drsportsvar.com and send me a message.
And I'm happy to put that out there, but really looking for the band, separate band and cup numbers, the 30D, the 36C, rather than a small, medium, large bra that's probably going to have a lot of stretchy material to be able to fit over a bunch of different bodies. And Leticia's looking for support. She's looking for no pain. So go with a cup and band system.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:50.079 - 00:35:20.860
Oh, that's really. I hadn't even thought about that. Because you're right. So many bras are just like, I'm a large, I'm a medium.
But you're right, there's so much stretch in there. I mean, I think about Going to the store and buying a bra that's not a sports bra.
And I'm a 36D in one place, and I am a 36C in another place, and it's just all over the map. So that's.
That's actually a really key point, I think, to think about actually looking for bras that have that, because it feels like they're thinking more about how will this actually fit someone's body versus just let's get this in on as many people as possible.
Lajean Lawson
00:35:21.180 - 00:35:39.710
Oh, so here's the other deal. And I was at REI yesterday and looking at some, at some point, climbing hiking boots.
Now we'll go into a sporting goods store or REI and let the guy bring us out. The guy brings out 20 pairs. We'll try them all out, get up on that little thing to check if it's going to jam our toes. You know, the little fake.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:39.710 - 00:35:40.630
You got to climb the mountain.
Lajean Lawson
00:35:40.630 - 00:36:25.790
Yes. Or. And. And we'll ask him for advice and all of this. Now, you go into the same stores to buy a bra, you don't want to be any help.
You want to go to the fitting room. If you're even gonna go to a fitting room, more likely to take them home, try them, and then what you don't like, it's a private thing. And.
And, you know, and that's one of the biggest barriers I think, that we have as women to getting a good fit and getting the right bra is because it is so personal that we were hesitant to ask for help to even get measured in terms of figuring out what our size is. So, yeah, there's all kinds of.
Of kind of things socioculturally, we have to weave through to become comfortable with bra shopping in general and sports bras in specific.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:26.270 - 00:36:33.470
It's so true. I do think there's a lot of things as women that it's. It's better. The more we talk about it, the better it is.
So I think our boobs are included in that.
Lajean Lawson
00:36:33.789 - 00:36:34.590
Absolutely.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:35.230 - 00:36:46.750
Well, before we wrap up, Lejean, do you have any recommendations of sports bras? You know, brands is fine that. That actually make good bras for people with bigger chests.
Lajean Lawson
00:36:47.070 - 00:37:05.590
Yeah.
And, you know, it's interesting because with my work for Champion 37 years there, every spring and fall, I'd also bring in, like, 10 of the latest and greatest from other brands, test them, and I was even, like, going through my substantial racks today, thinking about substantial rack.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:05.590 - 00:37:09.310
By the way, not a. Not innuendo. She actually has a rack of bras behind her.
Lajean Lawson
00:37:09.310 - 00:38:27.030
Yes. I have Multiple racks. The end of one is the hall of shame with your bras that are so bad, costing up, you know, as much as $90 from key brands.
But I did and because what a given brand will have on the market changes all the time, I did just do a little research so I could make some specific recommendations. I think number one in terms of a place to shop, I like Athleta a lot.
I like Title nine, I think especially Title IX because they carry a variety of brands. If you have one in your hometown like we have here, that's really cool, you can try them on.
But there are, there were two bras I was thinking, really thinking about for Latisha. One is I love the Nike new. It's called the Rival Ultra High Support.
I like the strap configuration, doesn't come up too high on the neck and adjustable straps, adjustable bottom band, really open in that key heat and sweat zone in the back. So that Nike Rival Ultra High Support. I also like the brand Wazel. It's a women owned company and they have two bras that I really like.
One is the Boom bra. I wanted to call it the Boom Boom bra but it's the boom bra.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:27.030 - 00:38:28.030
The Boom bras bra.
Lajean Lawson
00:38:28.030 - 00:39:24.240
And the only thing to watch on that is on your body if the straps are too close to your neck. But they do have the front adjusting straps.
And if you're doing, if you're doing triathlon and if you're a D double D, you probably will in transition area too. You probably will want to change from a biking bra to a running bra unless you have a sports bra with adjustable straps.
When we get into the riding position, our backs get wider and longer. So we need to be able to kind of adjust the straps during that transition or completely change into a different bra.
And the ones that I'm talking about here do have adjustments on them.
The other Wazel bra is the suspension bra which would make a really good choice I think for a 38 DD and one that you could actually wear in the triathlon as well as for training.
Shawnté Salabert
00:39:24.960 - 00:39:58.140
Oh, awesome. I just learned something. This is my favorite thing about bringing people onto the show is that I always walk away thinking like I didn't know that.
So I had no idea. The idea of having the adjustable straps. So great. Lejean, thank you so much for, for stopping by today and for everyone listening.
If you want to learn more about Lejean and the incredible work she's done over the last 40 years, head over to her website. She mentioned it. It is doctorsports broad.com that's doctor sports bra.com. easily one of the best URLs I've ever seen. But thank you so much.
I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us.
Lajean Lawson
00:39:58.620 - 00:40:04.280
Oh, you're so welcome. And thank you, Leticia, for your boldness. Much appreciated it. Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:06.680 - 00:40:17.560
Man.
I was watching you while we were recording with Lean and your face, like, there's so many times I could tell you just wanted to jump in there, but you were trying to be like, just let her do her thing because she was on a roll.
Colin True
00:40:17.800 - 00:40:26.520
I was. You know, there's no reason why the patriarchy needed to make an entrance on the, on the bra conversation. You know, I just like, be quiet, Colin.
You got. You can offer nothing to this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:26.760 - 00:40:31.200
That's true. Okay, I'm glad you recognized. I appreciate that we can continue making this podcast.
Colin True
00:40:31.200 - 00:40:32.760
Do I maintain my ally status?
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:33.240 - 00:40:34.990
That's right. You are a good breast. Ow.
Lajean Lawson
00:40:35.380 - 00:40:35.780
Thank you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:37.380 - 00:40:54.660
I did, I did. Actually, I will say I'm going to be ruminating on that idea of having the front.
When she was talking about having the straps be adjustable up front so that you can switch between different sports, that was a revelation to me. So I had no idea. I've never done triathlon, but I am a multi sport kind of gal, so that is something to think about.
Colin True
00:40:54.820 - 00:41:22.880
It's an important topic though, because, you know, the one thing I did, I did want to say was when I was working, I managed a sporting goods store, pretty big one in like the mid 2000s. And we had actually people who would come in to teach sports bra, sports bra fitting. So, so people could come in. But that was, that's not normal.
Like, I've never seen that a lot. I'm sure there are other places that do it. You know, don't write in and tell me about your place, but it's not a consistent thing.
That happens often enough. And it's like, it's ridiculous. Like it's 20, 26.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:23.280 - 00:42:03.030
It is. It's wild because you can go, I mean, you go to Victoria's Secret, we're just going to use the, the general, you know, and they'll do bra fittings.
And I've had a bra fitting there. I will say, though, when you go there versus somewhere else, the bras are all different sizing everywhere.
I've never had the experience of being able to, to get fitted specifically for a sports bra. And I honestly like for my running, I still like, I have a rabbit bra that I really, really love.
And it's like the right amount of compression for Me. And that is the only one that I love running in. So I need to. If anybody has any others, they like send me. Send me that little at.
Dear Gear Abby, mail. I want to hear your thoughts about. Not your thoughts about my boobs. I almost said that. I just want to hear your sports broad thoughts.
Colin True
00:42:03.510 - 00:42:03.990
Woo.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:03.990 - 00:42:07.030
Okay, Collins, save me for myself. Let's do question four.
Colin True
00:42:07.270 - 00:42:29.780
All right, here we go. Last question for today. Dear Gear Abby, I am graduating from college in May with a bachelor's degree in marketing. Whoa. All right, good for you.
And I'm interested in obtaining a job in the outdoor industry. I'm comfortable with written and spoken communication and well versed in social media. Are they applying for a job? What's happening right now?
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:30.180 - 00:42:30.980
I think so.
Colin True
00:42:31.220 - 00:42:50.410
And well versed in social media content creation, have a deep knowledge of SEO strategy and comfortable navigating AI platforms. And I've helped both my university's outdoor club and local non outdoor business with brand messaging and social media marketing over the past year.
My God, what a. What a resume.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:50.410 - 00:42:51.370
This is quite a letter.
Colin True
00:42:52.090 - 00:43:00.370
Finally. I spent last summer interning with a Minneapolis. Minneapolis based advertising agency, which was an incredibly valuable experience. I'm in.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:00.370 - 00:43:02.090
I have an outdoors person here.
Colin True
00:43:02.890 - 00:43:32.880
I don't know. Am I reading someone's LinkedIn page? I'm an avid outdoors person and would like to apply my skills and passion to a career in the outdoor industry.
I'm currently based in Minnesota, but I'm willing to relocate for the right opportunity. I dream of working for Patagonia one day, but I am not sure how to get a foot in the door there or anyone else. Do you have any recommendations?
Sincerely, Michael. We got there recommendations for working in the outdoor industry. Oh, boy. Wow, Michael, can of worms.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:33.520 - 00:43:36.480
Thank you for sending us the email equivalent of a cover letter.
Colin True
00:43:36.480 - 00:43:37.760
Jeez. Yeah, Seriously.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:37.920 - 00:43:40.560
Colin. Loved reading that. That was like really fun, actually.
Colin True
00:43:41.200 - 00:43:42.400
I'm like, where is this going?
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:43.200 - 00:43:50.480
It's like the. It's. It's a different version of when you get the good fish shaking ones and you get to channel that part.
Did this allow you to channel a different part of yourself?
Colin True
00:43:50.560 - 00:44:00.140
A little bit. I mean, now I felt like I needed to perform. I need to go back. Should we do a second take where I can kind of perform? Like, you know, like the more.
More serious. We laugh a little too much during Michael's cover letter.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:00.380 - 00:44:08.380
No, I think it's fine, Michael. Sorry, you're just gonna have to roll with it. If you've listened to this podcast at all.
Sorry if somebody sent you this and was like, you could ask these people a question.
Colin True
00:44:08.380 - 00:44:09.020
Yeah, right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:09.340 - 00:44:25.180
Michael's over there crying. Like, why are they laughing at me? We're not laughing at you. We're laughing with you because I'm sorry to say, Michael, we are not hiring right now.
But there are places that are. Will you land at Patagonia fresh out of college, which probably not.
Colin True
00:44:25.180 - 00:44:26.180
You know, it's happened.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:26.340 - 00:44:35.220
It's happened. Probably. Maybe not, though. I wouldn't bank on it. Will you be able to get a marketing related job in the outdoor industry fresh out of college?
I don't know.
Colin True
00:44:35.460 - 00:44:36.100
I don't know.
Lajean Lawson
00:44:36.260 - 00:44:36.740
Maybe.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:37.540 - 00:44:41.060
But I think we can help at least sort of steer you in the right direction here.
Colin True
00:44:41.540 - 00:44:42.100
For sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:44:42.180 - 00:45:16.550
We'll just, let's just start with Patagonia. We're going to knock that out. They've got a dedicated jobs website, careers.patagonia.com. they didn't pay us for that.
But if you want to advertise Patty Gate, please reach out.
But you can actually browse for open positions and proactively submit your resume and kind of like let them know who you are and what you're interested in. And so it's kind of a cool thing that they've got. So hop on that.
I also highly recommend signing up for the paid version of the Basecamp Outdoors newsletter. Right now it is a whopping $3 a month. That's right.
Colin True
00:45:16.550 - 00:45:17.190
That's a good deal.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:17.430 - 00:45:39.910
It's a super good deal. And every week they've got this incredible listing of outdoor industry jobs and opportunities.
And I have, I've seen quite a lot in the marketing and comms and social media sphere over the past year. So there's also a Facebook group, super active. You can jump into there if you're on the.
If you, unlike Colin, have not abandoned social media completely. Like, it's pretty good place to ask questions and introduce yourself.
Colin True
00:45:40.230 - 00:45:42.470
Ally and Jenna, feel free to advertise as well.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:42.710 - 00:47:33.530
Oh yeah, Allie and Jenna, we love, we love Base Camp. They're fantastic. So, but, but yeah, we'd love to have you as a partner, but.
All right, I'd say, Michael, beyond that, you're going to want to be as expansive in your thinking as possible while you're searching. Since you're going to be most qualified for entry level stuff.
So you may not be qualified yet for those juicy VP of marketing roles, but look for things that are marketing assistant, communication specialist, social media coordinator, PR coordinator, SEO specialist, account coordinator, even sales reps. You know, sales rep jobs I think think would be in your in your purview. I think if you've worked enjoyed working for that ad agency last summer, consider looking for an entry level job there.
Like hit up your contacts, see what they know. Even if it's not a job there, they might have some leads for you.
Even if it's not outdoor industry related, you get some experience that you can then parlay into future opportunities.
I'd say also look for opportunities for any kind of work with smaller brands, resorts, summer camps, parks and rec departments, trail associations, environmental non profits, gear shops, youth organizations, outdoor schools and guide companies. All of those places have various needs for communications and marketing.
So even if it's you kind of doing this freelance for a bit, cobbling together some more experience by running social for one company and, and doing a blog for another and you know, being a junior member of a comms team or something, there's a lot to be had by opening yourself up to different kinds of positions. So I'd say also finally my last bit of advice and I'll turn it over to Colin who maybe will tell us another biographical bit.
We're learning a lot about Colin's past today. I also think look@cooljobs.com. that's another good named URL. We like a good named URL.
Colin True
00:47:33.530 - 00:47:34.790
That is a good name. Yeah, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:34.870 - 00:47:35.710
Cool jobs.
Colin True
00:47:35.710 - 00:47:39.430
I'd rather, I'd rather look at that site than any other, you know, the other name site. That's a cool name.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:39.430 - 00:47:43.830
Yeah. You know what, if you guys want to advertise on the pod, I'd love to say cool jobs.
Colin True
00:47:44.710 - 00:47:47.830
Cool Jobs Team up and Patagonia. Let's go. Let's get the trifecta.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:47.910 - 00:47:49.990
I think we've got our new advertisers for the year.
Colin True
00:47:49.990 - 00:47:50.710
I think so.
Lajean Lawson
00:47:50.870 - 00:47:51.310
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:51.310 - 00:47:58.870
But, but cool jobs.com list. I won't say it like that. That sounded deranged. I'm sorry, let me try again. Cool jobs dot com.
Colin True
00:47:59.270 - 00:48:00.710
That was a little deranged too, but.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:00.710 - 00:48:03.430
All right, you're the voiceover guy.
Colin True
00:48:04.390 - 00:48:08.050
Cool jobs.com y yes, that's coolest jobs around.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:08.690 - 00:48:33.010
Coolest McCool jobs McGillicuddy. That's right. Yeah. They list outdoor travel adventure roles in some of the sectors you might be interested in.
And if you are a brave soul, Michael, you can Even look@usajobs.gov which is the federal government's job website. So no promises there, but you can look there and see what is available and see if you could become qualified.
Colin True
00:48:33.690 - 00:48:39.650
So I don't know, government side, local parks and rec too. If you were like In Minnesota or other places. Right. I mean so.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:39.650 - 00:49:07.040
Oh, for sure, for sure. I mean I'm saying like USAjobs.gov is federal government jobs, but yeah, absolutely. Look at county parks.
Maybe not a good time to get a federal job, but yeah, county parks, state jobs, like all of that stuff. Open yourself up.
I mean Colin, you have worked in the industry in different capacities since the dawn of time, I believe since you are in fact older than me, which I like to remind you kind people of any sage advice for our very sincere Michael.
Colin True
00:49:07.120 - 00:50:24.520
Yeah, I like the point you make about just not the making stuff side of the industry, which is where I spent most of my career, but like guiding and outdoor rec, you know, kind of opportunities. It's a little like like we said to cheapskate about like, like said hey, you're in a mountain town, you got to do this kind of same thing.
Like hey listen, you're graduating college. Now is the best time to go and try to do that kind of stuff. Go work for the forest Service.
I mean it's federal again, but like you know, or get a guiding position, whatever it is, is because that stuff is harder to do when you're older. Right. And so, and also will teach you a lot about the recreation part of it. On the more making stuff part of it.
The outdoor industry really rewards people who come from outdoor retailer work, customer service jobs really start to understand the making, making things side of, of of the industry. And so if you have a good outdoor retailer, I mean REI is great too.
But if you have a good specialty retailer, pick up a few shifts, you can get a part time job, work at your climbing gym. Those kinds of experiences will pay off.
I've seen more people, you know, climb the ranks at an outdoor brand who all started on the retail shop floor or just got a job in customer service at a, at another place then then you work on getting a job at a brand. So you know, I think that is, that is the advice I give to most people is you know, retail and customer service always pays off.
I mean that's where I started. I was a retail guy and I ended up, you know, being sort of a high level guy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:50:25.080 - 00:50:26.040
Oh, look at you now.
Colin True
00:50:26.120 - 00:50:39.270
Like, so like, well not bragging, maybe it's more of an industry bragging problem. Like but maybe we should try harder.
But, but no, but I think that's, I wouldn't see that as a coming out of college with your vast qualifications that you deal detailed for us.
Shawnté Salabert
00:50:40.870 - 00:50:41.750
Qualifications.
Colin True
00:50:41.990 - 00:50:53.510
Yeah. Don't discount like not just getting right in on like the marketing department of a Patagonia or a big brand. Right.
You know, so yeah, there's lots of ways to do it, but you just kind of have to start kicking around and trying to try to find find.
Shawnté Salabert
00:50:53.510 - 00:50:57.600
A spot sending you good vibes. Very serious. Michael, you got this.
Colin True
00:50:58.310 - 00:50:59.590
Michael is his show name too.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:01.510 - 00:51:10.630
Well, that's it for this episode of Gear Abby. Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with Colin, who's giggling in the background.
Colin True
00:51:10.710 - 00:51:12.430
They all have a relationship with me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:12.430 - 00:51:47.760
Listen. You don't know Send if you've got questions about my ex girlfriend's listening to the podcast.
I need your wife to send questions about your relationship. But also outside outdoor products, people, places and pastimes. You can ascend it all to dear gear abby gmail.com.
if it's about Colin, I'll forward it to him. Otherwise, I'm going to do my best to answer them or find someone like Legene who can.
And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the POD and make my day. And follow us on Instagram @GearabyPod. Do not follow Colin because he doesn't exist anymore.
Colin True
00:51:47.760 - 00:51:48.320
Nope.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:48.970 - 00:52:00.090
In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and Colin True. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. I'm Shantae Salibair and remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.
