Is REI Demanding New Product Exclusivity? Plus: Passenger Presses Pause
- colin7931
- Apr 21
- 28 min read
Today on the show Colin and Producer Dave address rumors that have been sent in by listeners of The Rock Fight that REI is looking for more new product exclusivity from at least some of their vendors. (04:40)
They also talk about the recent report that Passenger is pausing their launch into the US market due to the issues being caused by the Trump administrations tariff policy. (16:42) This leads to a new segment on the show A Little Frank Advice!
Lastly for The Parting Shot, Colin takes aim at Switchback's recently announced keynote address. (29:55)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.720 - 00:01:02.422
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and today I'll open the show addressing an interesting outdoor industry rumor that's going around. And then producer Dave and I will hit on some other headlines that come out over the past week or so.
But before we get to that, come back to the Rock Play this Wednesday to hear our guy Justin Hausman and I chat about outdoor community headlines. And I think Justin wants to gush about his new bike. We'll see. We'll find out on Wednesday. Friday. It's kind of up in the air right now.
You're either gonna get an old school take from me or Shantae Salibair may pop by to talk about something else. Stay tuned.
And lastly, right now it's time for you to subscribe to both the Rock Fight and also to Open Container, the newest Rock Fight podcast that's hosted by outdoor industry legend Doug Schnitzbahn.
All you need to do is tap the Follow button on whatever podcast app you are listening to us on right now and then go look up Open Container, do the same thing for them, and then subscribe to our weekly newsletter by heading to Rockfight Co and clicking Join the Mailing list. Stick around. We'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:02.526 - 00:01:06.610
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:01:09.310 - 00:02:41.020
Today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking. And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk.
And right now we're going to count five of the ways that we love hiking. Number one, you can go solo or bring a crew. Both come with their own drama, so tread lightly.
Number two, no two trails are exactly the same, but your legs won't care by mile six. Number three, you get to earn your hot chocolate, your beer or whatever. You know what I'm talking about. Guilt free carbs, baby.
Number four, hey, hiking builds confidence, especially after you dominate that quote unquote moderate trail that tried to kill you.
And number five, for every hike completed over a mile long during the month of April, Oboz will plant a tree as part of its Trails for Trees challenge. For each hike completed, participants will also receive chances to win weekly prizes from from Oboz and Challenge Partners.
Registration is free and still open right now@ TrailsFortrees.com this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz, a Bozeman, Montana maker of the Katabatic collection that includes the Katabatic LT and the Katabatic wind. Check out the full katabatic footwear collection@oboesfootwear.com today. Oboz. Love hiking. You're listening to Rock Fight Radio.
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Colin True
00:03:52.140 - 00:04:13.218
And now back to the show. All right, today's opening shot is presented by Garage Growing Gear, your hub for ultralight gear.
Learn more by heading to garagegrowingear.com and I'm here with producer Dave. We are without our consigliere this week. Owen is traveling a bit. Dave, are we gonna make it without our consigliere? What are we gonna do?
Producer Dave
00:04:13.354 - 00:04:18.546
Yeah, flying a little blind without our wise and intrepid advisor.
Colin True
00:04:18.738 - 00:04:30.626
We actually had to send him out to another podcast to put a horse head in that host's bed. You know, he's very. That's just what happens when you get a consigliere. We could have an advisor, but we have a consigliere, right?
Producer Dave
00:04:30.778 - 00:04:34.674
Fortunately, I have the cannoli over here to keep that.
Colin True
00:04:34.762 - 00:04:35.830
He took the gun.
Producer Dave
00:04:36.270 - 00:04:39.382
Yes. Yes, it sure did.
Colin True
00:04:39.566 - 00:08:31.050
Well, today we're going to start in the rumor mill.
This past weekend, an alert listener of the Rock Fight passed along some insider information that REI has begun reaching out to certain brands and vendors to demand exclusivity for new products starting in spring 2026.
According to the source, this is across multiple categories and will apply to not only new products, but also to products that carry significant updates. Now, we have not officially confirmed this move with anyone at re reached out over the weekend, as it was the weekend and Easter weekend, no less.
I have heard back, but I have not received any confirmation about what's happening yet. Understandable, but we wanted to get this information out to our listeners on this episode. I can say, however, that our source is credible.
So going into this conversation, let's just assume this is accurate. This is information that we received from this listener.
Let's start by looking at this from the lens of REI, who will likely be releasing their 2024 financials in the near future. And when you look back over where REI has been over the, you know, previous five or six years, they were down in 2023.
They had a $300 million, $311 million loss. There have been multiple rounds of layoffs, most recently earlier this year when they shuttered REI Experiences and cut 428 jobs.
They have been constantly under scrutiny for a union busting, with many of their critics accusing them of saying they are a co op while behaving like a corporation. Upper management has been pretty much overhauled with new faces in the following C suite positions over the past just 18 months.
They have a new president and CEO, new chief operating Officer, new Chief Marketing Officer, Chief Technology Officer, Chief Merchandising Officer, and Chief People Officer. I'm assuming that's human resources.
And the background of most of the new faces in that group are from places like Amazon, Sephora, Kmart, Williams, Sonoma, petsmart. Lots going on at rei.
A lot of changes, you know, and also not a lot of good news for that, for that brand and retailer during a time when the entire industry has been down and hasn't been a ton of great news for the industry as a whole over the same period of time.
If you look at their most recent wins, just a couple of weeks ago, their new CEO, Mary Beth Lawton, probably their biggest win to date was backtracking their decision to endorse Secretary of the Interior Doug Burgum. Anytime you're apologizing for a political endorsement, how much of a win can that be?
You get a little bit of a bump, but for the most part, you're saying, hey, we made a mistake.
Also, they got to launch the ultra lone peak 9, which we are pretty critical of, ultra here on the rock fight, while not thinking of what that could mean for rei. So just kind of following the breadcrumbs again. As of this recording, we don't have confirmation of what they're planning to do.
From the folks in Seattle, we're going off of what we've heard from our listeners, but again, credible sources.
I can also see a world here where the new team of leaders from the outside, that come from outside the outdoor industry are looking for new ways to deploy the clout that REI has with their brand partners. So the real question is, again, if this is happening, what does this mean for specialty retail? I'd argue it wouldn't be good.
Firstly, it's not the time. With everything going on in the world, I don't think REI needs to position itself as the villain of specialty retailers or anybody.
The outdoor industry needs to be united right now to fight back against this ridiculous tariff situation and the attack on our public lands. So not a great time to pick a fight with independent shops.
And secondly, there is a long running playbook here where outdoor brands launch their most exciting new products at specialty shops. And if REI tries to stand on that cor corner, it will be damaging to those shops.
If this plan is indeed in the works, I think you should expect to hear some loud voices from shop owners soon. This is what's happening. So, Dave, I want to bring you in on this. What do you think? What are your thoughts on what we're still calling a rumor?
Again, I believe it's credible. That's why we're talking about it today. But at this point, unverified. What do you think?
Producer Dave
00:08:31.830 - 00:08:45.098
Well, I think if you dive into the cesspool that is Reddit, you'll find this is probably a wonderful, wonderful reprieve from the union busting accusations that seem to get a lot of volume and energy.
Colin True
00:08:45.234 - 00:08:46.746
Reprieve for rei.
Producer Dave
00:08:46.938 - 00:09:49.470
Yeah, right. I mean, at least we're not talking about that. We're talking about using our size and power to force out smaller players.
Look, we don't know is this a category wide, Is this for specific categories? I mean, that certainly blunts the impact, the financial impact, but it isn't a good look. It is definitely one of those things.
I think that just because you can, maybe you shouldn't. I mean, do you have the power to do that and force brands into compliance? You do. But you know what? So did the empire.
And that didn't turn out very well either. The rebels found a way.
So I just like you said, and in this time where it does feel like cooperation and collaboration, even amongst different retail channels, you know, distribution kind of competitors make sense for the health of the overall health of the industry. And this doesn't seem like it has the eye of the overall health of the industry in mind.
Colin True
00:09:49.930 - 00:11:00.690
Yeah, when I was sort of debating about, you know, you and I were talking about. Do we talk about this? Because, you know, you know, it's like, well, let's see. Maybe we wait and see what happens here.
The reason why I felt like I wanted to be proactive about it is let's just say this is just even on one category or even with one brand, like, it's a slippery slope to kind of go that.
Even if they're just saying, hey, one brand, we're going to like, hey, we need exclusivity on this if you want to continue to work with us at the level with which you're currently working with us. And I'm like, I'm just not down with that. And it feels a little more. If we were wondering.
I've heard a lot of people say with some of the hires they've made of like, well, these people, don't they come from outside the outdoor industry? Are they going to understand how the outdoor industry works?
And there's a part of me, it's like, well, you know, new points of view or sometimes healthy. Is there a better way? Just because, you know, they don't understand our industry doesn't mean they can't.
And I wonder if this is the first sign of, hey, actually, this is what happens when you load a big company with people who have worked in other industries is they don't really kind of operate as we typically expect here. And those decisions can end up hurting people down the road.
Again, even if it's only one brand, one retailer, whatever it is, I don't think it's where you want to go. Rei, if it's broader than that, now you're kind of really are becoming the empire. You really are becoming a villain here of the industry.
Producer Dave
00:11:01.150 - 00:11:36.346
Right, right. And again, you mentioned the model in terms of launching a technology at specialty to build credibility.
And authenticity clearly sees themselves as one of those players that can do that.
And I think there's legitimacy to that, but I think there's also enough room to for brands, some of the bigger brands, especially to create special makeups for rei, they can launch things together. That. That is absolutely makes sense and that is good for the industry.
We want REI to be seen as a credible authenticity outdoor retailer and experience. Of course we do.
Colin True
00:11:36.418 - 00:11:36.906
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:11:37.018 - 00:12:14.750
But at the same time, especially with the smaller brands, when you're talking about camping gear and equipment and things that are so integral to that core element of the. Of the activity, really bringing those small retailers along to service as that kind of is that banner, if you will, for this is where.
This is where it begins. And this is where kind of the. We're going to. We're going to keep the flag going regardless of the trend. Right.
And so I just, I think there's room for all of that. And when you kind of put vibes out there that just say you're not. Not into playing with anybody, with everybody, like you said, it's gonna.
It's not gonna look good on your brand.
Colin True
00:12:15.370 - 00:12:41.986
Yeah. And I. And I also think, you know, they kind of are in a strong position to do this if they decide to do it. Right.
Because you look at someone like a vf, which has a lot of the, you know, kind of bigger brands, you're gonna find at a lot of these stores. Not.
They're not having a good time right now, and pretty easy decision for them to say, yeah, all right, sure, we need those big POS from you, rei, so we'll go along with that. Not that again. I don't know if they're in play here, but just sort of like playing this out if this is where this is going.
Producer Dave
00:12:42.138 - 00:13:01.734
Right. Well, like I said, I said, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Of course they have that power. Right.
Every brand is looking to create that kind of stability, if you will, from kind of an order book that gets you that level. But I just, like I said, I don't think it has the eye of the larger health of the industry in mind.
Colin True
00:13:01.822 - 00:13:02.406
Right.
Producer Dave
00:13:02.558 - 00:13:19.542
This is a case of, you know, it might look good in the short term, but the long term effect, I think is going to be lasting, and it's going to create a bad taste in people's mouths as they move from brand to brand to brand. And look, we talk about the threat to the, to the, to the. Specialty retail brands aren't going to like this either.
Colin True
00:13:19.606 - 00:13:20.294
Yeah, right.
Producer Dave
00:13:20.382 - 00:13:28.370
They're going to be. They're put into an awful position where they have to choose. Right. So they have a Sophie's Choice of their retail partners, and that's not cool.
Colin True
00:13:28.530 - 00:14:42.000
Yeah. And so we'll keep an eye on this.
Obviously, like I said, we've reached out to REI as we hear back from them and as we hear from more either retailers or brands about this, myrockfightmail.com is where you send any feedback you have, and we'll keep you guys up to date on this. Hey, guys, Colin here. Just gonna break into the episode real quick. After we recorded this, I actually did receive a response from REI's comms team.
They wrote to me.
There is no new policy curating some amount of exclusivity as part of our overall mix has been part of our merchandising strategy for more than a decade so we can bring fresh, exciting, relevant products to our customers. Worth noting also that this works in both ways, that there are brands we carry who offer certain styles as exclusives elsewhere.
So that is the word out of Seattle for now. Thanks to them for getting back to me over the Easter weekend. We'll continue to pull this thread and see what comes of it.
And like I said during the initial recording, if you have any feedback or insights on this topic, please reach out to us with an email. That address, of course is mark myrockfight gmail.com okay, back to the episode. You know that segment, though a little sad.
Not sad, little worrisome let's say. You know, it's not worrisome though. Dave, tell me the new ultralight backpacking gear coming to Garage Grown Gear every week.
Producer Dave
00:14:42.460 - 00:14:48.452
You could say we're lightening up the conversation. You could say we're lightening up the conversation. Sorry. There you go.
Colin True
00:14:48.476 - 00:17:16.070
So what's the latest over at Garage Growing Gear?
Well, they have high performance and stylish sunglasses from a new Montana based brand called FKT Gear, a gear nerd favorite, the Ocelot windscreen for your stove, the Ultralight Legend flat cat gear, as well as lots of new Alpha Direct fleece hoodies from several brands. Check out all this and more over at GGG garagegrowinggear.com check out the link in the show notes. Check them out today.
All right folks, time to set the record straight. A few weeks back, listeners heard me rant on about a new sandal from Lem's Shoes.
That sandal, the new Switchback sandal is a classic single strap, single post style that I without much knowledge accused of of me chewing. And look, in hindsight, it's hard to me to a style that's thousands of years old, right?
What I wasn't informed on was Lem's unique take on making footwear and let's just say a a few rocks were thrown back at me.
And rightly so because Lem's has really elevated the design of minimalist natural movement footwear, anatomically correct fit, zero drop comfort and lightweight outdoor performance. And the Switchback.
It's crafted from a single piece of material and features a unique single strap design with one buckle for super ease of use, added comfort and getting it on outside. You can personally check it out yourself when it becomes available on Wednesday, April 23. And oh hey retailers.
Did you know that Lemz is looking for wholesale partners. Hit them up@supportemssshoes.com to add a little flavor to your shoe wall.
And be sure to stop by and say hi to the Lemz team at their booth at Switchback in Nashville this June. So to all the Lems fans, I may have offended. My sincerest apologies.
And to Lemz, well, you did pay for this advertisement, but more importantly, you made a believer out of me. I've eaten my words and they tasted like freedom. Check out the new Switchback sandal by heading to lemshoes.com alright, next story.
It's been a month since Liberation Day, but the effects are already hitting the outdoor industry.
In the comments section of Friend of the Pod, Westhound's LinkedIn post last week about making decisions in the current climate, the co founder of Hy Camp Flasks said that they have eliminated all of their Q3 orders and are keeping their fingers crossed that things will stabilize enough to place orders for Q4 even around here. Your pals at the Rock Fight have been impacted already.
We've had one brand that was going to advertise with us pull back and another that looked promising put things on hold. It's kind of amazing how quickly things have changed in just a few weeks. We're not even a month out.
Producer Dave
00:17:16.450 - 00:17:28.250
I do want to speak to that Colin, but we are committed here at the Rock Fight to be a tariff free podcast and we will not be raising prices or passing them on to consumers based on the new math.
Colin True
00:17:28.330 - 00:17:37.040
Yep, we have a guy at Long Beach Port is working with us on that and we've gotten a commitment. No new tariffs here at the Rock Fight.
Producer Dave
00:17:37.580 - 00:17:43.140
Two containers of Sponge Rock promo items and they're just going to sit there?
Colin True
00:17:43.180 - 00:17:51.028
They're just going to wait until this is over. Balls in your court. Other outdoor podcasts who charge terrible tariffs for your listenership.
Producer Dave
00:17:51.204 - 00:17:53.680
That's right. Can't we all just get along?
Colin True
00:17:54.780 - 00:19:11.090
Last week, though, CISO Shopee Surf Outdoor reported that Passenger has put their US Expansion plans on hold due to the scale and unpredictability of the current tariff situation.
According to the article by Kate Robertson, the brand rerouted stock that was planned for the US Market to Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium and the uk.
John Lane, Passenger's CEO, was quoted in the article as saying Passenger has seen rapid direct to consumer growth in the US over the last two years and has a large pipeline of wholesale orders building from retailers such as rei, Shields, backcountry and outdoor specialty stores. However, with the US Tariffs.
However, with US tariffs increasing so rapidly and being so volatile, this has turned the US from a great opportunity to a risky proposition. If there was a first domino to fall, so to speak. This is an interesting one given where Passenger is in its development.
Everything, you know, everything feels stuck in that kind of what's going to happen point of uncertainty.
And for a brand like Passenger to within two weeks, you know, boats on the water look around and say there's no way we can do this, we can, no way we can do what we want to do and basically punt in order to have another crack at the US down the road. It paints a pretty vivid picture. Dave, what are your thoughts on this?
Producer Dave
00:19:13.070 - 00:20:33.478
Wow. Look, this is like you said, this is just the beginning of a lot of stories like this that we're gonna see.
And I mean, I think the uncertainty is the kicker right now with a brand like Passenger.
It's sad because I think this legitimately had some interest and anticipation amongst the industry that a brand like this that has established its itself is new.
It's part of the new generation of outdoor lifestyle that really kind of hit the ground running and has built, I mean it's over 10 years old, so it's like they've, it's not a startup by any means. But yeah, I think there was some anticipation for this in terms of help freshening up the story.
They're good at marketing, they have a great environmental message, they're going to plant and protect initiatives. I think something like, you know, three quarters of their, of their product line is sustainable, you know, recycled or organic.
So they're really leaning into that.
Yeah, it's a bummer because like I said, it's having, having some, some players that, that kind of know what they're doing and bring, bring some excitement and new energy to and you know, probably a younger customer as well. They're kind of being a kind of a travel outdoor. Like it's in this kind of lifestyle, lifestyle side of the equation. Yeah, bummer.
Colin True
00:20:33.574 - 00:21:03.132
Yeah. And for you can look at this one way, like they were in a fortunate position of like they were able to kind of just pivot that quickly, you know.
But it isn't insignificant if you look at the amount of countries they had to ship stuff to. The ones I just listed also. Yeah, listen, I mean they had according to the CEO, orders from rei Shields, backcountry and specialty stores.
This wasn't like a nice little like ah, we got into a place and there's like, you know, one like load of stuff they have to deal with and they could sell it on their website. That's a huge. They were about to make a splash. They were really about to arrive in a big way. Absolutely.
Producer Dave
00:21:03.196 - 00:21:27.640
I mean, look, they're well north of £50 million. Like they're a sizable player entering the market in strength.
And like you said, we don't know fully their plans, but I imagine they'll keep the website rolling so there'll still be a D2C component.
So they're not going to disappear from the market, but it just takes away again the wholesale experiential channel that is so important to this industry.
Colin True
00:21:28.380 - 00:21:52.036
Yeah, they did say it's a pause. They're pausing. They're not, they're not saying we're never going to do it again. They want to see if they can bring it back up.
I do know they were working on, obviously they had a new distribution facility. I mean that was a pretty big initiative for them. And you know, kudos for them for making that big pivot that way.
When we go back to the co founder of High Camp Flask and that comment they put on Wes's LinkedIn post, just say we're going to cancel. It's better for us just to wipe out our Q3 orders.
Producer Dave
00:21:52.228 - 00:22:38.840
Well, and again, I think the definitiveness of this and the quickness of the decision is really smart and I think that helps clarify people's orders and kind of where they're going to have, you know, inventory wise so that they're not sort of waiting for something that's not going to happen. And I think that all comes from, like I said, like I said, they're not a new company.
They have made some significant changes over the last couple of years. You even quoted John Lane, you know, as a CEO. You know, he's a former director from O'Neill. Right.
They have just got a £15 million investment from former Gymshark CEO.
So they're bringing some people that know what they're doing and hopefully give them the right kind of guidance to, to manage and like I said, grow in the States when it makes sense and be, be a force in our, in our industry.
Colin True
00:22:39.220 - 00:24:10.210
So all this leads to the question about what to do. And for this we're introducing a new segment. It's a little frank advice. The rock fight's offering you a little frank advice.
So, you know, but it is, it is kind of what to do. And everybody's situation in this is different. It's unprecedented, it's chaotic.
It's, you know, what are you committed to versus you Know, what do you need? How long is this going to last? For a media company like us, the mission gets harder, but it doesn't change.
We rely on ad revenue, so we simply keep mining and looking for willing partners.
But for those that are in that position of brands, sales agencies, retailers, we reached out to some folks we know who hold prominent positions in each of those categories, and we want to start sharing what we've heard from each of those people. Because, listen, we all need to take action even when things are uncertain. We'll start rolling these out, start today.
We have some points we want to share. We'll also start making this a rig regular segment as this continues, that hopefully, you know, if not some.
If maybe it's something you already know, maybe it inspires you to take action in a different way. Because we can't just sit around and worry. We got to start, you know, take.
Take the bull by the horns here and let, you know, let's get some work done here, guys. All right, let's. Let's get. This is our industry. Let's defend it, and this is what we think we should be doing.
All right, so Dave worked up a few items. We're gonna start on a. At a more. At a broader level. Right? We're gonna start. We're gonna.
And we're gonna say we're gonna work on this over the coming weeks and episodes. You're gonna hear more from us on. On this topic. When we have Owen back on, folks like Wes Allen might pop on to kind of address some of these things.
Like I mentioned, some folks from some sales agencies, but Dave has a little bit more of a broader list about things we can do right now. Dave, what do you got?
Producer Dave
00:24:11.070 - 00:25:24.628
Yeah, look, I think, like I said, it is a crazy time. There's so much uncertainty. Everyone's wondering what they can do. Some things we can't really move until we know what's going on.
Some things are probably just kind of good business sense anyway, regardless of the climate.
And so I think, again, kind of our discussions with what we just had earlier about REI and kind of where they're positioning themselves and kind of the moves like passenger makes. It just kind of makes sense that. So here's a few things. Number one, I think, again, like I mentioned in the discussion, we've gotta be flexible.
We have got to ease the pressure on our partners and enable people to be able to move and change and pivot right now. Inflexibility, because you can, is not the way to be. I think it's gonna build Resent.
And it's going to foster kind of cracking points or breaking points in kind of relationships.
And so whether it might be, you know, your payment terms, you know, kind of how you're pricing things, just reducing financial friction, I think is anything that we can do with our partners is going to be, you know, tantamount. Part of that too is, you know, again, I try to advise this in any of our communication clients. It's radical. Transparency and communication.
Colin True
00:25:24.724 - 00:25:25.412
Right.
Producer Dave
00:25:25.596 - 00:27:00.760
Clarity equals trust. Okay. And you may have to change your mind, you may have to change your direction over time. Keep them in the loop, right?
It doesn't matter if you're a brand or you're a retailer, you're a sales team, things are going to change. No one's going to hold that against you. Okay? But just keep them, be honest with them and let them know what's going on. It's not perfect. It's okay.
You know, I think too part of that too is it just enabling people again, being a partner, not just a vendor, right.
You know, so if you're a brand and say you're having trouble with your inventory or, you know, your pricing going to go out of whack, what can you do to your retail partners to help build events, to help give them messaging, can you support their digital initiatives, things like that, Be strategic, right. With one another. And then finally, I think now is because the economic piece is so topsy turvy, leaning into your purpose, right?
Double down on your values, Let people know that where you do stand. Right? Because a lot of times we have to make these decisions because they are financially driven for the sake of the business. Right.
And so if you can continue to remind people, what are those intangibles? Why should I like you and want to be a part of you and stay with you as we navigate these kind of turbulent times? This is the time to do it.
So it is an opportunity in that way to lean into this type. People want to hear positive stories and they want to hear what you're doing that is good, right. That I can latch onto.
So like I said, I think these kind of points are. They're kind of generic in the sense that anyone can take from them. But I think they're important at this time with this type of climate.
Colin True
00:27:01.420 - 00:28:10.060
Yeah, I think it goes back to kind of what you're saying during the RAI conversation. It's like, this is the award unprecedented gets thrown around, but this is really unprecedented. There's no playbook here at all.
And it's like for right now, what are your relationships and how are you supporting those relationships? Because you're gonna need them to support you as well.
You might make peace with the fact that maybe your organization looks different at the end of this, but, you know, it's truly kind of a wartime mentality of like, what do I need to do today to make progress and keep things going so that when this is over, you're in a position to thrive as well. And that means you have your brand partners, your retail partners, your sales partners, whatever it is, don't you know? We reached.
I reached out to a buddy of mine who owns a sales agency. He wrote back, you know, try not to swirl the drain with conjecture and gossip. Like, get on the phone, call your partners.
Like, have a plan for each of them and the same thing. And that's from a sales agency point of view. The other thing he wrote was like, no bullshit to the retailers. Just be honest and relay information.
Don't try and make up for something that is going to not. You can't really back up. But you could see people doing that in this climate because it's hard not to react in a fearful way.
Producer Dave
00:28:10.920 - 00:28:14.540
You mean conjecture and gossip, like our REI segment earlier?
Colin True
00:28:16.280 - 00:28:17.872
We didn't make that up.
Producer Dave
00:28:18.056 - 00:28:19.818
Fair enough. Fair enough.
Colin True
00:28:19.984 - 00:28:24.438
Hey, if it ends up being conjecture and gossip, then we'll say that. But it seems like it seems pretty.
Producer Dave
00:28:24.614 - 00:28:30.422
We'll be radically transparent. That's right. That's right. We'll be radically transparent with their inflexibility.
Colin True
00:28:30.566 - 00:29:03.780
Exactly right. That is really funny. But. Yeah, but I mean, ultimately it's just that that is the.
I'm getting a sense of that talking to people, that a lot of this is what's happening. But I mean, again, go back to what was the original announcement April 2, and it's already changed three times since then.
So you can only do so much, but being proactive. I don't know. I guess we'll see if the segment evolves to be really helpful.
But I just feel like we need to be a little bit more doling out positivity and action oriented points on the show instead of just action oriented.
Producer Dave
00:29:03.860 - 00:29:14.720
Whoa, is me action oriented is the key. Sometimes you have to. It's not all roses in that way. But you know what, what can we do? And I think let's keep working on that.
Colin True
00:29:15.340 - 00:29:16.996
I think that was all right. What do you think?
Producer Dave
00:29:17.068 - 00:29:18.240
Okay, we'll see.
Colin True
00:29:19.580 - 00:29:45.814
Well, we'll put it out there to the people listening to this.
If you have things you obviously will be posting on LinkedIn, on social media, send emails to myrockfightmail.com would love to hear what you're doing.
We'd love to feature those points on the show in a little frank advice, because I think this just needs to become a forum for, again, the positivity on how to get through this.
I don't want this just to become the show where we sit, you know, we kick everybody in the teeth three times a week because things are so shitty, you know?
Producer Dave
00:29:45.982 - 00:29:50.582
Right. And look, we get enough of these, we can consolidate them and relate them to the listeners as well.
Colin True
00:29:50.686 - 00:29:58.890
Yeah, yeah. We'll put them on our newsletter. Yep. So. All right. I think it's time for the parting shot.
Chris DeMakes
00:29:59.710 - 00:30:02.170
It's time for a parting shot.
Producer Dave
00:30:03.550 - 00:30:06.150
Boy, I hope it's an uplifting parting shot.
Colin True
00:30:07.770 - 00:30:16.514
Are you. Are you gonna. Do you want to do yours as well? Are you. You have. I, I kind of focus in mine on the Switchback thing. Did you want to talk about outside?
Producer Dave
00:30:16.602 - 00:30:20.150
I'm going to sit back and just eat popcorn while you do your parting shot.
Colin True
00:30:21.050 - 00:30:23.714
I figured I would talk about outside on Wednesday's party shot.
Producer Dave
00:30:23.762 - 00:30:27.538
You go right ahead, Colin. Parting shot. Bring us the love.
Colin True
00:30:27.674 - 00:30:37.160
Well, my party shot today, it's not. It's not such a. It's not such an angry parting shot. I'm just, you know, I'm a little disappointed, let's just put it that way.
Producer Dave
00:30:37.200 - 00:30:38.824
Why, Colin? Why are you disappointed?
Colin True
00:30:38.872 - 00:33:08.468
Well, my parting shot today is for Switchback. And look, we're all excited about Switchback. I mean, I legitimately am excited about Switchback.
I'm very curious how the show's going to go, what it's going to be like. We're going to be there doing rock fight stuff at the show. I'm hopeful that I'll look back maybe at this parting shot as a bit of a misfire.
But this past week, Switchback announced their keynote address, which will be former Brooks CEO Jim Weber, who's going to be interviewed by venture capitalist Mel Strong. And the topic of that is going to be around the turnaround that Weber led during his time at Brooks.
So very business, kind of focused keynote at Switchback. And I get it right. We're trying to, like, they're building that show based off of brands, retailers coming together.
They're really trying to drive home that message. So my parting shot isn't for Mel or Jim. I think both of those people are absolute badasses. You know, Mel's been, I think, kind of.
I see her kind of rising to the fore in sort of the outdoor community on, you know, and she's as a wonderful things to say, Jim. Definitely legend in the running community. My parting shot's more at the subject matter. So number one, Jim comes from the running world.
And I think it would have been a better move for the people who also produce the running event to go with someone on the outdoor side of things for the first big out for their first big outdoor show. But that's more of a nitpick.
So I think the root of my parting shot is that the one thing I feel like we've been missing since outdoor retailers stopped being that sort of nexus event for the outdoors has been that industry table setting.
It used to be at the outdoor retailer show, the Conservation Alliance Breakfast, where most of the people in our industry would gather at the start of that show and we'd hear from someone whose mission and or message would apply to everyone in the room, regardless of the position they held or the category they played in.
You heard a lot about environmental initiatives, conservation initiatives, things that we could all sort of wrap our heads around and be like, yeah, this is kind of why we're in this industry. These are important topics to us. And it kind of sent you off into the show feeling like, yeah, we're part of something bigger.
It wasn't just about the numbers and kind of your business and that kind of thing. And I just really think that that's at the root of what's missing now that we don't have that kind of nexus event that we used to have.
And for the first switchback, I was kind of hoping we'd have something like that at that kind of kickoff event. So I'll reserve judgment until I get to Nashville.
I'll hope maybe I'll come on after our first show or from the show saying, hey, man, actually, the keynote was sick. That was great. I'm really glad they did it that way. But for today's episode, my parting shot is I think that's where they should have gone with it.
That's what I got to say about that.
Producer Dave
00:33:08.604 - 00:33:34.088
Well, that makes sense, Colin. That's not so angry.
But I do want to say that the conservation aligned breakfast, the subject matter was really, I think, more of a pillow to nurse people's hangovers. And so the breakfast was really more of a just try to. How to. How to get yourselves upright so you could start the busy day.
So I do think that had an ulterior purpose for that breakfast.
Colin True
00:33:34.184 - 00:33:47.352
You know, most of those early shows I went to being so long ago, I kind of forgotten most of almost every single time I was massively hungover in that room. It's a really good point. It's a really good point.
Producer Dave
00:33:47.456 - 00:33:54.600
You have nice soft voices, you know, a good tone. Like you said, you don't have to follow facts and figures, right? It was just a good narrative.
Colin True
00:33:54.680 - 00:34:05.028
Now, hey, now go to the show, guys. Like, all right, let's go to the show. That's a good point. To that point, I might come out of this one, be like, holy shit. Mel and Jim were.
They killed it. That was great. I'm not hungover at all.
Producer Dave
00:34:05.164 - 00:34:09.200
You and the yellow bellied sapsucker, we can all get along.
Colin True
00:34:11.580 - 00:34:34.974
All right, well, I guess we're gonna wrap it up right there today, guys. Come back for a new episode on Wednesday and then again on Friday. Check out open container on Tuesday.
The Rock fight's a production of Rock Fight llc. Our producer today, you heard him. Producer David Karstad. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. I'm Colin True.
Thanks for listening and once again to take us out, it's Krista Makes with the rock fight fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Producer Dave
00:34:35.102 - 00:34:35.678
Boom.
Chris DeMakes
00:34:35.774 - 00:35:31.150
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and stun sometimes agree to disagree we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews Ideas that aim for the head this is where we speak our truth this is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight Fight. Rock fight, Rock fight Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight Rock fight.
