Marmot Lives! Unpacking The Plan To Revive A Zombie Brand
- colin7931
- 2 days ago
- 32 min read
Today Colin is joined by Marmot's Vice President & GM of Technical Apparel, Jon Graden.
Marmot has been the poster child of what we've been calling the 'zombie brand' here on The Rock Fight. Not quite what it once was but not entirely irrelevant either, a zombie brand is a former 'it' brand that has fallen out of favor with retailers and doesn't have the juice it once did.
Marmot is one of the OG outdoor brands that the outdoor industry was built upon but after a series of acquisitions and big swings that didn't pay off, they've lost some of their clout. Jon, who comes from the fashion side of the apparel industry, has been working for the past 18 months to change that. And as the Marmot team heads out to sell for Spring 2026, Jon has something to say about where Marmot is today and where he thinks the brand is heading.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:03.360 - 00:06:41.700
Liz and Royal Robbins were known as American Climbing Royalty, part of the first group of Yosemite based climbers that would scale routes yet unclimbed, who would promote the ethic of clean climbing, and who, with a core group of startup brands, would serve as the foundation of our modern outdoor industry.
From their very first pair of shorts that could boast a true climbing functionality, Royal Robins has become synonymous with comfort versatile wear for the modern adventurer.
From Rock Craft productions coming spring 2026 to a specialty store near you, Royal Robins presents Being Royal Robins it's the story of how the Royal Robins Men's Desert Pucker became an icon and spawned the new Camino Pucker.
And it's the story of how an innovative brand launched mosquito protection technology to keep you protected without the use of chemicals and why the Salith hoodie is possibly the most unique hoodie in our outside world and how you can experience this uni American story of adventure through the thoughtful clothing choices of Royal Robbins.
Available for streaming everywhere you find actual water based tributaries and don't miss a sneak preview at Spring 26 Goa Connect this June being Royal Robbins because nature and adventure are good for the soul welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and I'm contractually obligated to professional wrestling.
Before I say My God, is that Marmot's music? Is Marmot on its way back?
We're gonna find out today, but before we get to that, next week we kick off some serious trade show coverage here on the Rock Fight as our crew heads first to Goa Connect and then to Switchback Spring. We'll be covering both shows extensively here on the Rock Fight. And speaking of Switchback, hey, are you heading to Nashville later this month?
If so, be sure to put the Rock Fight live on your agenda for Tuesday, June 17th. That's next week. It's at 5 o' clock at the trail Heads Theater. I'll be there with producer Dave and shant. Monte Salibara, no. 1 Comerford.
It's gonna be a whole Rock Fight thing. If Switchback is the event of the summer, the Rock Fight will be the event at the event. Don't miss it. Alright? Stick around, we'll be right back.
Hey everyone, before we keep going here, I need to tell you about our teammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, if you run an outdoor and endurance or an active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR and digital marketing belay partner than or drinking buddy than Darby. They can help your business reach new heights and they might just keep you from falling on your ass.
Since we started working with Darby, more and more people and this is an important point now. Guys, I want you to hear me on this. More and more people have reached out to us here at the Rock Fight because of that messaging.
Look guys, I'm dead serious. If they can help us, they can help anybody. Hit them up@darbycommunications.com, do it today before talking about it here on the POD last fall.
The idea of a zombie brand is something that has been kicking around in my head for a long time. Brands are the celebrities of the human powered outdoor industry.
Other industries that are valued in the billions of dollars rely on athletes or performers to be the primary draw to consumers. In pro sports, for example, individual athletes are more important to many people than their favorite teams.
The one team athlete is pretty much a thing of the past, so you're more likely to find someone who will track an athlete over their career these days than homers who will put the team first. For us here in the outdoors, it's the brands that lead the conversation.
There was a brief window back in the 90s when the audacious acts of outdoor athletes set the tone for the industry folks like Shane McConkey or A. Lynn Hill. But these days, while there are fans of specific athletes at any given activities, your Courtney D.
Walters or Kai Lenny's or Cody Townsend's the activity and brands who support that activity are much more ubiquitous than the big names in the activity. Simply put, you're probably not going to find a basketball player who doesn't know who LeBron James is.
But there are plenty of trail runners who've never heard of Jim Wamsley. And every trail runner knows about Hoka, Altra, Topo Athletics, Salomon, Patagonia, et cetera.
We don't go around wearing outdoor athlete T shirts and hats, but we sure as hell wear the T shirts of the brands who make our outdoor gear and apparel. And when someone from outside the industry finds out that you might work at one of these brands, that notoriety and cool factor becomes palpable.
I remember when I worked back at Timberland, no one cared what I did for the brand. They just thought it was cool that I worked for Timberland.
But what happens when a brand loses some of what made it authentically part of the tradition of the outdoor industry when they lose that thing that made them automatically accepted as a member of this badass crew when the product maybe hasn't even lost a step, but it certainly isn't viewed the way it once was. When you're alive, but not really, that's a zombie brand, and Marmot's been the leading example of this.
You can go back to last fall to hear that episode where I broke down why? But for a variety of reasons.
Over the years, Marmot went from being one of those using air quotes brands, a brand that where it would be absolutely weird if you entered an outdoor gear shop and didn't find a healthy offering of their products, all the way down to being more of a meh to many on the inside of the industry. And that's an important distinction here. The zombie status is the ultimate inside baseball moniker.
Very few consumers at large will register this, but those of us who spend our time discussing the ins and outs of our industry definitely noticed that things weren't quite what they used to be at old Marmot. But there's someone out there who believes that Marmot is poised for a big return. His name is John Graydon.
John is Marmot's vice president and GM of technical apparel, and he and I had the chance to meet at this past February's Outdoor Market Alliance Media event, and to be honest, when I heard that he was there, I was eager to meet him. But I also would have understood if he didn't want to meet me.
We've been pretty hard on Marmot's zombie status here at the Rock Fight, but John is looking at things a little differently at Marmot.
Jon heard all of our comments on the show before I met him, and his interpretation of my comments and our comments in general about Marmot were that they were from a place of love, which is true. I don't want Marmot to be a zombie brand. They're too important to the history of the outdoor industry to just fizzle out.
But the fact is they're owned by Newell and they're part of a portfolio of brands where being outdoor authentic probably isn't the number one priority.
So John has his work cut out for him in that he has to both appease Marmot's corporate ownership while also showing outdoor industry zealots like me that Marmot is able to come back and he's here today to talk all about it. So welcome back to the Rock Plate, where today Marmot lives with John Graydon.
All right, we're here with John Graden, who's the vice president and GM of technical apparel for Marmot. Welcome to the show Jon, thanks for having me.
Jon Graden
00:06:41.700 - 00:06:42.220
Colin.
Colin True
00:06:42.460 - 00:06:51.180
I, you know, I think there's probably some folks out there that are gonna do a double take when they see someone from Marmot is on the rock fight in the subject line. So I'm really excited that you're here.
Jon Graden
00:06:51.820 - 00:06:56.700
Same. Same. We've got a. We've got a lot of good things going on at Marmot, so we appreciate the opportunity to talk about it.
Colin True
00:06:57.420 - 00:07:51.090
Well, I guess let's just dive into it. I mean, because Marmot has sort of become our poster child for what we call, you know, the zombie brand, you know, meaning a brand that is one sor.
You know, quote unquote it brand that maybe has lost some relevance in the space it once held in the outdoor industry or community. I find the outdoor space is weird in that, you know, our celebrity celebrities aren't athletes or enthusiasts.
Like, they are really the names of the brands that we discuss. Like, the celebrities are kind of our brands. And so being a zombie brand isn't necessarily a reflection of the functionality of the products.
I mean, it can be, but mostly it's about the position a brand now holds compared to where it used to be. I mean, you've worked for a long time in apparel.
You've had apparel background, not necessarily on the outdoor side of things, but at brands like Levi's, Gap, PVH, before coming to Marmot about 18 months ago, you know, with your background, you know, how did you view?
And I'll give you plenty of time to yell at me for why I'm wrong about Marmot, but just kind of starting from your point of view, like, how did you view Marmot upon your arrival at the brand?
Jon Graden
00:07:51.330 - 00:08:29.200
I think for me, you know, I've always been a big fan of the brand, like many. And, you know, living in the Bay area for over 15 years, we were always where.
I was always aware of the brand, just for, you know, being in the outdoors, doing the activities, but also just for future employment opportunities. I was always looking to see what might be taking place at Marmot, you know, and I think that the outdoor industry can be a little bit insular.
But I also worked over 20 years in the denim industry, and there's very similar parallels where, you know, if you're a denim head, you know, all things denim and you're passionate about the category, you're passionate about the brands, and you're passionate about the wearing occasions. So I think there's a lot of similarities there.
Colin True
00:08:29.360 - 00:08:51.520
Yeah, it is an inside baseball take. Right? I think you and I even spoke when we first met. In Denver over the winter that, you know, most consumers are just that they know marmot.
They think, oh, yeah, marmot. They make outdoor stuff. It's great, you know, and it's very much like idiots like me.
They're like, oh, you know, those guys used to be so much cooler than they are now. Right. So it's interesting. So that kind of mentality you feel like is pervasive across apparel and different depending on the category?
Jon Graden
00:08:51.840 - 00:09:16.220
I think so, for sure. And I think for those niche categories that are like, all things denim, all things outdoor, I think people are very opinionated about it.
And what I appreciate about it, though, is the passion that our consumers and our competitors have for the whole space. I think that makes us sharper, and it also means that we matter.
And I think that's what I told you when I met you was you wouldn't talk about us if you didn't care about us and that you didn't want us to win.
Colin True
00:09:16.780 - 00:10:04.120
Yeah. I mean, look, I'll fully admit it's a little unfair, probably the heat we've put on you guys.
But it is interesting when you go back and look at the history of the brand and how old the brand is and the parallels of what came up right alongside some of the other players that are still significant, either from a revenue or just a distribution point of view. And then you kind of start charting, you know, I mean, and it's not an unfamiliar story.
I mean, the changes in ownership, you know, just all it takes is a couple of little things, and before you know it, it's like, oh, we were there and now we're here. I mean, I think, though, I. I do think maybe we are a little insane in the industry for carrying as much as we do. But then it does kind of play out.
When you talk to folks, especially specialty retailers, they say things like, oh, brands like Kelty, Marmot, whatever. We used to have so much more than our store than we do now. So it does actually matter at some point when, you know, when the revenue numbers do drop.
Right?
Jon Graden
00:10:04.760 - 00:10:43.860
Yeah, I think it matters to the consumers and to our customers. Right. So from a consumer standpoint, the items that you're buying from us are used for activity. They're used to.
Used for enjoyment with your family and friends. It's used for pushing yourself to be your best self outside. And so I think that passion translates into a brand.
And then if you're a customer of ours, you know, we're here to sell that brand story and that brand dream. But we're also, you know exist to make money for both sides.
And I think once you start to falter with our beloved customers, you know, that's a watch out. And we want to be respectful of that relationship and we want to do right by the buying community.
Colin True
00:10:43.860 - 00:10:57.420
Again, was this part of the challenge when you were looking at the job and that kind of the job, maybe, like you said, keeping tabs, like, the opportunity seemed to be arising, was that. Were you even aware of, like, kind of the difference in the market position Marmot was in versus where it is now, maybe where it was before?
Jon Graden
00:10:58.220 - 00:12:08.390
You ask a certain amount of questions during an interview, but you probably don't go as deep as you'd like to on the state of the business. But to me, the real facts of the brand are, is that we are the fourth most recognized brand within the outdoor industry.
And that's based on the research that we've done. And so that's a gift. And so all we have to do is, is nurture that gift and really stand up the brand again.
And really what Kate and I, which is my marketing director, what we've been working on, is really like, what's true about the brand. Not kind of what we think or what we'd like it to be, but what is true.
So we've done some really good consumer insights to understand what those brand values are. And then our job is really to amplify those once again and also not try to go back just to what Marmot was. But what should Marmot be?
Cause the industry has went through so much change in the last, call it 15, 20 years, where I think it used to be for the hardcore enthusiasts, but now we've got a lot of different consumers who want to be outside. And I think we're here to help democratize the outside.
And so welcoming more people to nature, I think would be a big win for all of us in the industry.
Colin True
00:12:09.350 - 00:12:38.360
We definitely want to talk more about what you guys are doing specifically at Marmot, but kind of just drawing on your experience and not outdoor or Marmot specific at all, but just as a brand question and kind of the experience you've had in apparel, the analysis of, like, why a brand falters. Like, is it. You see it as. Is it an accumulation of little missteps? Like some, you know, is it a result of big swings and misses? All of the above.
Like, when you kind of look at just the general marketplace and you see, again, it doesn't have to be an outdoor brand, any. Any brand, what are those things that kind of lead to Those that, that scenario happening.
Jon Graden
00:12:39.080 - 00:13:11.590
I think if your decline is significant, then there's probably been some significant big swings that didn't hit. I think if you have these small, let's say mistakes, you can recover from those pretty quickly.
I would say in our case we did have some, some missteps and we, I think started looking internally for some of our solutions versus externally. And I think we lost that gaze of our consumer, our customers and the channels that we sell in.
So I think that's really what we've been trying to repair. And you really get surgical about again.
Colin True
00:13:11.590 - 00:14:02.740
I definitely find.
We said this on a podcast recently about the outdoor industry specifically is, you know, there's definitely been acceptance that, you know, the outdoors is for everyone. And so like, there's ways how do we enable people to get outside?
But brands still really need to stay true to that authenticity and that core nature of who they are, right?
It's like if you start, you can't become everything to everyone, you know, and I think that is something that is a big trap as brands grow because, you know, every brand, especially when they're founder led, man, that is a vision, right? We are doing this and then if it works, it's like everybody clings to that vision. And then the moment again, like the leadership changes.
Now you're just putting stewards in place, right? And it becomes real easy to be like, well, you know, it was a pretty good vision of those dollar signs. That's a pretty good vision, right?
You know, and it's easy to kind of get away from it without even realizing that you're doing it, right? Because you're so sort of in your own little ecosystem. And before you know it, oh, wait a minute, what happened? Where are we?
Jon Graden
00:14:03.380 - 00:14:52.560
Right?
And I think, you know, the competition today is pretty fierce within our industry as well as all these new players that are, let's say, non core outdoor brands that are now taking real estate at retail. They' mind share from consumers.
And I think with this next generation that's rising, you know, what they've told us back is versatility is equally as important as function and fit, right? And so when you go out for a hike, you see all different kinds of looks head to toe. And it's not just what that outfit was 20 years ago.
And so I think all of us are trying to lean into that and do the right thing and stay true to what we are and what we provide for the consumer, but also to be flexible enough to say the consumer is changing and how do we respond to that? But still keep our DNA intact. It's not an easy challenge, but that's the challenge that we're embracing.
Colin True
00:14:52.960 - 00:15:15.400
No, it's incredibly nuanced. And look at even Mountain Hardware. Who were. They were repped, definitely.
If they were not in that sort of zombie sort of category, they were barreling towards there.
So from my experience when I was working at Polartech and working with them and just in the last year or two, just some brand tweaks and before you know it, now the darling of the outdoor space again, according to even like the specialty retailers, I guess you're on a razor's edge almost at all times, the decisions you have to make.
Jon Graden
00:15:16.200 - 00:15:57.960
Yeah.
And I think what I've been trying to really gear the organization towards is using that tomorrow lens and making sure that we're building something that will be relevant for tomorrow, not just looking in the rearview mirror. And it's hard.
We all get caught up in that last year itis of what did we sell, what was our famous for idea 20 years ago and how do we hang on to that?
But I think our consumer today wants that evolution and wants to keep going with us on what's new, what's going to keep me drier, what's going to keep me warmer.
And then all the other questions they might have that they don't even know they have, we have to listen to that and figure out what are those solutions we're trying to attack and come to market with really cool ideas.
Colin True
00:15:58.440 - 00:16:54.830
Well, I think that's a good segue into kind of what you're bringing to the table here, because one thing we talked about when you were walking me through the line a little bit in Denver when we were together was even just like color and like some real basic things. Right.
Of just, you know, ultimately if, especially if you have products that are similar to other products, like what are the small differentiations that make someone say, I want that?
And I think when you look at your background, which is more on the fashion side of the industry, you see a lot of criticism when, like, I mean, REI specifically has gotten a lot of criticism for their, I think their new C suite of a lot of folks outside of the space.
Now, some of that could just be, you know, gatekeeping, outdoors people, but there is still kind of a vibe in a way that, you know, business gets done in the industry too.
So there's some legitimacy there as much as I think at times maybe it's a little overblown coming from your point of view, you know, and using your experiences, like how have you been able to sort of leverage, you know, the stops at Gap pvh, you know, those places and Levi's to, you know, sort of address what Marmot might need in the outdoor space?
Jon Graden
00:16:55.710 - 00:17:50.570
I think you have to, as a new leader, you have to have humility on what you know and what you don't know. And what I know is color. What I know is differentiation.
What I know is really compelling hanger appeal and making sure that the whole garment or the whole idea, if it's equipment, has that differentiation. Those small details are going to entice you to choose our brand versus other brands. That's what I think I brought to the table.
And then, of course, segmentation of the line. And what's this product range for? Who's it for? What's our pricing strategy? What channel do we think we have the biggest opportunity?
And then I really lean on my team when it comes to the product development to say, here's the function of that product that it really needs to be embedded in that to make it really perform for that consumer. So I know what I know and I know what they know, and we work together to make the mousetrap the best it can.
Colin True
00:17:51.210 - 00:18:01.400
So let's say we said you've been there about 18 months, right? So what's the. What's the. What's the antivirus like? What are we changing, like, from where you got there to where you are now?
Like, what have you done and what are you looking to do?
Jon Graden
00:18:02.670 - 00:20:03.220
I would say that my philosophy is always is, you know, it takes a village. And so as I looked across the organization, there were a lot of different things that needed to be adjusted. And so it always starts with product.
And so that's what we've been focused on. You know, step one was really to say, let's get the team organized against, you know, real product innovation. And also to understand our.
What we call our enthusiast consumer and also our occasionalist. So who's, like, hardcore always in it?
And then who are those fans that come to our brand and they really kind of step into the brand occasionally for maybe a lighter activity and making sure we've got products for them, too. We want to kind of embrace all of our consumers. And so I think we've been really focused on supercharging the design side of the house.
We've made some personnel changes there as well, just to kind of shore that up and kind of approach it in a much more commercial way.
And then on a merchandising level, we're really kind of getting more Surgical again on what's the product for, what's the position of that product, what's the product life cycle? Just those merchandising fundamentals and getting back to basics on that and then on the marketing level, really getting the brand back out there.
So we hadn't advertised the brand on a national level in about three years. So we started that campaign effort in September of 24. We also wrapped the brand in new design language.
So we've got a new brand look and feel which has more energy, which is more rooted in the outdoor industry, rooted on the strengths of our brand. And then we've just launched in the spring of 25 an influencer campaign for the first time.
And so we've got five or six different influencers out there from let's say Matt Lyons, who is really there to add that sense of humor to it. We've gotten great engagement with him.
And then we also picked some more enthusiasts that were going to give us those epic shots and that epic voiceover of what our big ideas were, as well as some of those down the mountain voices too within the space that could help us with that occasionalist and getting those consumers who just step into the brand occasionally.
Colin True
00:20:03.380 - 00:20:22.660
When you look at then the range itself, like, who do you listen to? Like, who do you go out into the marketplace to listen to? Like, influencers are great. We know they have audiences and other enthusiasts.
But when you look at, you know what's going to sell, right?
When you look at retailers, you know, do you, are you look, are you talking especially retailers, are you more dependent on like the Reis of the world? Like where, where do you go to for, for advice on what you're making?
Jon Graden
00:20:23.380 - 00:21:24.000
Yeah, we definitely listen to our retailers and I think again, that's us turning our gaze externally and relying on them with some facts from what they're experiencing. I have been in New York all week and met with some of those outdoor specialty retailers to get those insights. So I definitely pay attention to those.
We obsessively talk about our competition, which I think is again, maybe some new muscles to flex within the organization and making sure that we have a point of view and that we have a response to some of those big, what we call volume runners.
If we don't have some of those to in our quiver to take them on, you know, we're going to be missing out on some of that revenue and some of those opportunities. So definitely take a look at those. Of course we're going to look at rei. They're really important to the industry. And we need them to win.
We want to win with them.
So we're always looking to see what they're doing and looking at their changes they're going through, like you said, from a personnel perspective, but also what's their strategy going to be and how can we plug into it and be a part of their future.
Colin True
00:21:25.120 - 00:22:04.230
When you're showing them, when you're talking to these retailers and you're showing them the products and, or even just, you know, the designs, what are the things you're going to come to market with or you have come to market with, what's the feedback?
Because your point, it's funny that, you know, like I said, it's a nuanced thing to sort of, you know, this, like, label I was putting on Marmot, because it's not. It's a fourth most recognized brand to your point, you know, it's not a matter of products not working right. It's. It's a. It's more of just a.
It just feels tired, right? It's just like, oh, there's a couple of swings and misses, and now we're just kind of here. So it's not the matter.
I can't imagine anybody saying, hey, we don't want to meet with you. But at the same time, you know, I'm sure they may have an expectation going into a meeting with Marmot based on the past few years.
What kind of feedback do you get from the retailers when you sit down with them?
Jon Graden
00:22:04.870 - 00:24:12.920
Yeah, I think, you know, even before I joined the company, I think the team had done a nice job of reframing the color palette, also standing up some really big ideas whether it was our minimalist rain jacket that we relaunched in spring 25. We're getting a great response to that.
And then we also came out with some new air Exchange knits for summer of 25, which is more about UPF protection. And these are just great foundational business opportunities, I think, for both sides. And we've gotten great response to that.
And working with our direct to consumer team, we've also experienced some really good business year over year. And that is the website experience. But also fixing color, I mean, that's probably worth a 25% increase in sales just by fixing color.
And we now have some colors that are challenging. Black, which is what is always our to do, I think, for everybody in the outdoor industry, is to say, what's those friends to black?
That we can stand up more revenue opportunities. So we've got some great blues this season, some great greens that are really driving interest from our consumers. So that's been great.
And then of course we have fall 25 just around the corner. And so we're relaunching a guides down jacket which has been a staple in the industry for over 15 years.
And I think the last version that we did was probably too lifestyle based and too oversized and just not really what the brands have about.
So we've went back to something a bit more classic in proportion, classic in colors and that's getting some excitement as well as lightweight insulation is a big opportunity for us. That was something we were under penetrated in when we looked at our portfolio.
And so we're coming out to market with a new lightweight insulation called the monoquilt using PrimaLoft which is going to be a great competitor out there I think within that space.
And then secondly we've got some really good inactivity mid layers which we're couching our aerothermal collection which is going to have that insulation that people can see on the hanger but also like quickly kind of get it. And so those are going to be great I think for building your kit and getting out there and doing the activity. So we're really excited about those.
And again the color palette is really commercial for back half and then go forward. We're not going to make some of those. Those missteps we did in color.
Colin True
00:24:13.560 - 00:24:29.700
Was distribution an issue? Because I mean it felt like for the longest time like the Marmot Precip, which was an iconic jacket, became like massively over distributed. Right.
You could find it everywhere and knockoff versions of it or even just discounted versions of it on Amazon. Is that still kind of like something you hear about or is that not. Is that not really an issue anymore?
Jon Graden
00:24:30.260 - 00:25:46.920
We're proud of the Precip and what we did back in 1999 to kind of revolutionize the industry and getting a rain show to more consumers at a sharper retail. So we're really excited that we were part of that journey and it reset the whole industry.
I think the watch out for us is we don't want to have that be our only answer out there that we have fame around. And so I think when we had, let's say higher revenue overall and that was a part of our portfolio, it was fine.
But I think once we saw some of our sales decline, that was the only thing we had. That's a risk. Right.
So we're trying to build out more foundational pieces that can really complement those Precip franchise items and have some fame around other things. Too, not just the precipitation, but as we look into spring 26, we will be coming to market with the Precip Evolution.
So adding stretch to the fabrication, we're redoing our Precip Pro, which is going to be great with more benefits and features to the consumer. And just to evolve that whole category, we got a little stale in that.
And I think the feedback so far has been overwhelmingly positive and kind of moving away from the shiny fabrics and moving into something a bit duller. And then again, with that color getting to be more commercial, we think there's going to be tremendous upside. Yeah.
Colin True
00:25:46.920 - 00:26:09.640
And that's something that a lot of people in the industry probably don't want to admit, is that, look, this trends matter. And, you know, even if something does get a little tired or there's, you know, you get, you hang too much on one thing.
Like, all it takes is the right style and the right color at the right time, and a lot gets forgiven, you know, and a lot, A lot. Just all of a sudden like, oh, no, that's the coolest thing ever. You know, so it's. And that can also go away as quickly as it arrives.
But that opportunity is always sitting there.
Jon Graden
00:26:10.120 - 00:26:49.740
Yeah. And I think too, you know, what's different from maybe 20 years ago is the product life cycles are just getting shorter.
So with the new competition from Athleisure, even for share of Wallet, Carhartt's in the mix now, other brands that we have to think about, that's taking open to buy, taking real estate, and also just taking the hearts of our consumers. So our product life cycles have to be a little bit quicker. You can't rely on a Preset franchise for 20 years and not change it, or even five.
You've got to keep evolving it to where you're improving what that product means to people and give them a reason to update. You know, that's. That's really our job.
Colin True
00:26:50.700 - 00:27:22.030
So.
All right, nearly two years now in the industry, after a long time in, in the apparel and, and fashion industry beyond Marmot, like, what, what is the opportunity for. For the outdoors, obviously, from an apparel perspective. But, like, what's, what's missing? Like, what is, what is the next thing?
I mean, I always say it's more on the sustainability front, you know, people cracking the codes on making things better, because, I don't know, from a performance or, you know, design can always be an opportunity. But what do you see missing that from out there?
That maybe, maybe you're not there today because, you know, you're still you know, kind of, you know, ramping up, but, like, maybe Monday Marmot does fill that bucket.
Jon Graden
00:27:22.590 - 00:30:11.240
Yeah. I definitely think you're.
You're correct in how do we make our products that keep you warmer, keep you drier, but also do better and right by the environment that we care about. Right. And if you're going to be in this space and you're going to be catering to the consumer who spends a lot of time outside, we.
We have to take care of Mother Earth and she. She matters.
And so we've been working with a contractor for the last nine months to reestablish our sustainability policies, and we haven't quite published those just yet to the consumer.
But that's coming in the next 90 days, where we're going to have a defendable and modern sustainability policy and really also celebrate all the things that we've already done from a product perspective, because we already were doing that within the raw materials that we choose. We just weren't shouting it and we weren't telling our consumers that we are using recycled materials.
We are using things that could be fully recycled in the future. We are trying to use fabrics and trims that, you know, can be broken down and recycled. So that will be coming.
We're not all the way to bright there, but that is definitely on the horizon.
And then I think the other thing just to build, you know, for 2026 is where I think you're going to see the brand truly innovate again and not just short up some of those products that we were missing within our range that are commercial. You know, the retailer, the consumer, they want us to innovate and they want something incremental to their wardrobe, to their.
To their retail floor that matters. And so in order for us to do that, we. We've got to ask different questions. And I think you're going to see that from us in 26.
And if I could take a moment and talk about something. But we're really excited about it. We have. We actually have something truly incremental to the market when it comes to our equipment of the house.
We're coming to market with a new sleeping bag that has no zipper. It's called the Raptor, and it's really about comfort.
It's going to have that shape that allows you to sleep on your side, so a little bit bigger, you know, up at the chest area. And it's really to help with temperature regulation, so you can open a flap and regulate the. Your. Your warmth level that way.
And if you need to be a Little bit cozier. You can snap it with a magnet at the top. And so it provides a lot of flexibility.
And what we think is really exciting about this, it's going to be really interesting for the gearhead that just buys all the new things, but it's also going to be really interesting for the person who just steps into the outdoor industry occasionally for that. That super comfort, sort of quilt comforter sensation that you get at home. Yeah. So.
And it's really coming in some great colors, which is, you know, just in some commercial blues and greens, but we're using, like, an ombre pattern on it to give it that hanger appeal. So we've gotten terrific response to that. And we'll have that in down and in a synthetic version for spring 26.
Colin True
00:30:11.560 - 00:30:14.520
Oh, okay. So there's. You've been outselling that one already then.
Jon Graden
00:30:14.920 - 00:30:21.080
Yeah. And we're getting great response to it. And then, of course, we'll be highlighting this at GOA and Switchback, so we're excited.
Colin True
00:30:21.480 - 00:30:50.100
Yeah. That's amazing. First of all, it does seem like the sleep system world is getting a lot of play in terms of innovation and design.
I mean, Rumpels had a new bag that came out in the last month or so, just, you know, Nemo and their recycled program. So it seems, for whatever reason, this is kind of a category where there are innovative opportunities. So that'd be interesting to see.
And what a cool thing, honestly, to kind of. That's a great.
In addition to the things you mentioned on the apparel side, to have a piece of gear that is truly different and bringing something new to the table. That's a nice compliment.
Jon Graden
00:30:50.420 - 00:30:56.620
Yeah. And I think that the quality connotation of the brand is still rock solid when it comes to that.
Colin True
00:30:56.620 - 00:30:57.940
Has never faltered. I would say.
Jon Graden
00:30:58.100 - 00:31:28.460
It really hasn't.
And, you know, the thing that's so I think awesome about Marmot is that people love our brand and they love it through the experiences they've had with our products. So, you know, the minute I joined the organization, friends and family were like, oh, my God, I love Marmot.
I have my favorite tent I've had for 12 years. I have my favorite sleeping bag I've had for eight. I've got my favorite puffer I've had for 20 years. You know, and that.
That kind of love affair and affinity that people have for our brand, you just can't buy that. You have to earn it.
Colin True
00:31:28.460 - 00:31:29.220
Right, Right.
Jon Graden
00:31:29.380 - 00:31:42.310
And so we're really excited to keep that innovation sort of cycle going on, equipment as well as apparel to Me, they play together and they're. They have a symbiotic relationship and we are proud of both parts of our house.
Colin True
00:31:42.630 - 00:32:39.550
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the inside baseball thing. Right?
I mean, it's not like, to your point, like, I don't know anyone who doesn't like marmot, but it just, you know, it goes. You start to see it in the selling cycle and as, you know, seasons pass and retailers buy less and less and more of other things.
And it always comes down to, you know, I have so much space on my floor of the floor of the shop, what am I going to put in there? And before you know it, it's. You've gone from. You've declined a little bit and I think. But, but that is a.
You have a position of strength in the brand and if you can, you know, do everything you're mentioning, there's no reason to think that it won't. Won't be successful because, you know, everyone's looking for innovation.
Everyone wants something new, they want to look good, they want that emotional connection and you already have the established brand.
So you mentioned we're recording this on May 22, where I assume your sales meetings happened or it's going to happen soon, and then we're off to market. You know, goa, switchback, regional rep shows, all these things.
Have you had any early sales feedback on the line or any expectations heading into the selling season?
Jon Graden
00:32:40.110 - 00:33:41.170
We're definitely on the early side of selling. So actually been in New York this week and we met with a couple retailers here and some good feedback.
And then, of course, the trade shows will really reveal what our overall point of view is going to be, but we're excited. I think for us, not only is the product supercharged and the marketing's getting in line and where it needs to be, but also the operational side.
So, you know, our retail community, they wants to ship on time. They need us to do those things, those fundamentals. Yeah.
But I think that's the thing that I really drive with my team is really that accountability for all areas of the company to really bring their A game and to not leave any stone unturned. So really balancing that art and the science, that's really what that we're. We're focused on and it's competitive out there.
Like, we are not, we are not blind to that and we're taking it really seriously and we want to win and we deserve to win based on the affinity that people have for our brand.
Colin True
00:33:41.810 - 00:33:56.290
Yeah. I used to tell people when I was a sales manager. Like, it's not enough to have the best product.
We have to be everyone's favorite company to work with. Like, it's just like, is that. That just solves for a lot of other things. And then in addition, like, and we have the best product, too.
It's like, well, you know, why aren't you carrying us? Right? I mean, those things matter.
Jon Graden
00:33:57.120 - 00:34:08.800
Yep, absolutely. And I think that word favorite is a favorite of mine. Pardon the pun, but my sort of directive to the team and everybody is to.
Our job is to build favorites.
Colin True
00:34:09.360 - 00:34:15.280
It is. We already have that. They are my favorite brand to work with. Like, that's Gold Year Ears. Right?
Jon Graden
00:34:15.680 - 00:34:55.700
That's it. And so. And it's also very environmentally friendly. So if you buy your favorite jacket, you buy your favorite tent, and it lasts and lasts and lasts.
That not only does right by the consumer and the customer, but it really does right by our planet.
So that's something we talk about a lot, is that's what we're here to do, is to continue the legacy of Marmot and building your favorites and building, you know, future big ideas that might belong in the archives one day that people talk about for years and years and years. Like that, to me, is extremely motivating and really exciting. And I think coming from Levi's, that.
That sort of love affair with iconic products that people love, it's always right there with me.
Colin True
00:34:56.100 - 00:35:05.220
All right, so, John, last question. Looking ahead. How does this play out for Marmot? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years down the road? What do you think is going to. How is this going to play out?
Jon Graden
00:35:05.780 - 00:36:13.250
I think our number one thing we have to focus on is consistency. So we have to be consistent in innovation. We have to be consistent in our color palette.
We have to be consistent in building some really great foundational runners that the consumer and the retailer can rely on. And we have to be consistent with our account relationships and making sure that, you know, we're.
We're listening and that we're keeping that gaze external.
And, you know, for us, one of our premier retailers said to us recently, you know, when Marmot is winning, the whole industry wins and the whole industry is buoyed.
And we feel that responsibility, and we think that'd be a great sort of success story, that we helped kind of lift the whole industry, not just our business, but that draw interest back in the category, because I think, you know, kind of post pandemic, we've seen a little bit of retraction from the consumer, and they're spending their money differently and they're going traveling again. They're taking big trips and they're doing other things with their dollars.
So I think, you know, we take that challenge on to keep it interesting, keep it exciting and to make sure our consumer, you know, can spend more time outside with their friends and family. Like, that's a big inspiration for us.
Colin True
00:36:13.410 - 00:36:31.630
John, I really appreciate you coming on the show.
I appreciate you having taking all my comments in a spirit which I would have understood if you didn't take them and love that we got the chance to talk to you and meet you and can't wait to see you out on the road this spring and maybe we'll have you have to have you back on in a few months to check in and see where things are at with Marmot.
Jon Graden
00:36:31.870 - 00:36:38.110
That sounds great. Yeah. Like I told you at the PR event, you wouldn't talk about us if you didn't love us. So appreciate the opportunity.
Colin True
00:36:38.350 - 00:36:40.670
Always love on the show, even if it sounds like the opposite.
Jon Graden
00:36:42.270 - 00:36:43.030
All right, thanks, John.
Colin True
00:36:43.030 - 00:36:43.590
I appreciate it.
Jon Graden
00:36:43.590 - 00:36:43.970
Thank you.
Colin True
00:36:44.840 - 00:37:04.520
All right, that's the show for today. Thanks to my guest, John Graden. If you'll be at either Goa Connect or Switchback Spring, pop in to see the new lineup from Marmot.
They'll be exhibiting at both shows. The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight llc. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening.
And here to take us out once again is Chris Demaikz with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:37:04.520 - 00:38:03.520
Rock Fight. Rock fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Flight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big fights about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas, living in full. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock Flight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock flight. Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock flight.
Colin True
00:38:03.840 - 00:38:05.200
Rock Flight Fight.