Too Many Shows? Taking the Outdoor Industry’s Trade Show Temperature
- colin7931
- 1 hour ago
- 49 min read
Today on The Rock Fight, the crew runs a temperature check on the outdoor industry national trade show scene!
From fragmentation to event fatigue, Colin, Eoin Comerford, and Producer Dave break down whether outdoor still needs a single “north star” gathering; and who should be responsible for making it happen.
But first they hit a rapid-fire six-pack of industry stories, including:
ANTA’s push into the U.S. market
Arc’teryx living between performance and luxury
L.L. Bean’s retail expansion strategy
Why outdoor still plays it safe with color
TNF x Skims (you know, for kids!)
Kappa’s Olympic kits
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Episode Transcript:
Chris DeMakes
00:00:00.080 - 00:00:07.200
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Colin True
00:00:08.320 - 00:00:26.080
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and joining me today, rumored to be the next co CEOs of Lululemon, it's Owen Comerford and producer Dave. Congratulations, guys.
Eoin Comerford
00:00:26.400 - 00:00:30.290
Wow, you haven't seen me in a pair of leggings, Colin. It's exciting.
Colin True
00:00:30.450 - 00:00:31.970
Is it just automatically see through.
Eoin Comerford
00:00:32.530 - 00:00:36.850
Oh, it's the people Demandish. Yeah.
Colin True
00:00:36.850 - 00:00:42.370
Got us some late. Well, breaking news yesterday, right. Some changes. Lulu's gonna go through some changes. It sounds like.
Eoin Comerford
00:00:42.370 - 00:00:44.690
Yeah, yeah. Chip must be excited.
Colin True
00:00:45.090 - 00:00:49.650
He's just getting. He's like, he's got a CV ready. He's like, I'm applying for the job. Oh, yes.
Eoin Comerford
00:00:49.650 - 00:00:50.370
Let's go.
Producer Dave
00:00:50.530 - 00:00:52.850
Well, his plan is coming to fruition.
Eoin Comerford
00:00:53.090 - 00:00:55.650
One step my evil plan. That's right.
Colin True
00:00:57.400 - 00:01:35.600
Well, today we're going to be opening a six packet topic, sort of a full lightning round episode. Since we really haven't had much to talk about over the last couple weeks. Couple of weeks except for the running event.
So we wanted to hit you guys with a bunch of stories. We're also going to be taking outdoor trade show temperature read as more news continues to come out of the outdoor trade show scene.
But first, guys, we have the Rock Fights holiday schedule, folks. After today, you're only going to get one more episode of the rock fight in 2025. That will be next Monday.
That's right, when we hand out the first ever Rock Fight Awards. And then we're going dark to January 5th. Look, this podcast is on the verge of its third birthday. I don't think we've ever taken a break.
So we're taking a break.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:36.240 - 00:01:36.840
We're taking.
Colin True
00:01:36.840 - 00:01:37.920
Taking a couple of weeks off.
Eoin Comerford
00:01:38.880 - 00:01:42.560
Listen to some. Let's listen to some of the back episodes. Go back to the beginning.
Colin True
00:01:42.640 - 00:01:45.600
We're pushing 430 episodes. There's plenty.
Producer Dave
00:01:45.600 - 00:01:58.460
We'll curate some. We'll curate some best of the back episodes and just let them out for sure.
And we're always pushing layers, the episodic kind of concept that got whole thing going.
Colin True
00:01:58.700 - 00:02:03.780
So people should listen to layers. Actually, if you really can't get enough of my voice at this point, go for it.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:03.780 - 00:02:06.540
Listen. Yeah, I can get enough.
Colin True
00:02:07.900 - 00:02:31.340
And remember to come back to the Rock Fight Podcast Network this Thursday for an all new Gear Abby with host Shantae Salibar. Make sure you're following both the Rock Fight and Gear Abby on your favorite Podcast app. And lastly, we want to hear from you.
Email us@myrockfightgmail.com, reach out on LinkedIn or head to Instagram where we are. Rock fight. Co. Send us a message. We've been getting some good messages lately when we want more of those. So send us some messages, guys.
We'd love to hear from you.
Producer Dave
00:02:31.340 - 00:02:34.100
And of course, we're leading with quicksand, right?
Colin True
00:02:35.380 - 00:02:37.340
Dave is enamored with the hiker.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:37.340 - 00:02:38.660
What is this quicksand thing?
Colin True
00:02:38.980 - 00:02:40.820
Quicksand is real, Owen. It's real.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:41.300 - 00:02:44.060
Oh, okay. I'm hoping that most of our audience.
Producer Dave
00:02:44.060 - 00:03:17.600
Have already heard this and actually have dived into it so much. What is it?
A fellow named Austin Dirks, who will forever be known as Pitfall Harry, actually was hiking in Arches national park doing a solo hike and got himself stuck in actual quicksand and had to be extricated by the emergency response team. It took hours, right. And fortunately was safe. Fortunately had a Garmin and was able to let people know that he was there.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:17.840 - 00:03:22.240
Didn't have a vine that he could throw around a nearby tree to all of his.
Producer Dave
00:03:22.240 - 00:04:04.600
He had a garment. This guy was prepared like so he wasn't, you know, he wasn't a. He wasn't a kind of inexperienced hiker.
And thank goodness in that sense that he actually kind of knew what to do and was able to because I guess the temperatures were really cold. It happened early in the morning. You know, the, the kind of a. Obviously a wash kind of walking through those canyons and it just.
The water would just fill in. Anytime he tried to dig out the water and sand would just fill it back up and that's, you know, freezing water.
So he's stuck in ice cold water for hours and. But like I said, it had a, it had a happy ending.
But man, anytime you see a story and there's quicksand in the tit, dude, Bees to honey, man, we're going right to it.
Colin True
00:04:06.040 - 00:04:08.120
Do you have a take or did you just want to mention.
Producer Dave
00:04:08.120 - 00:04:15.200
I just wanted to bring up the fact that somebody got stuck in quicksand and like, oh my gosh, Looney Tunes was.
Colin True
00:04:15.200 - 00:04:18.359
It was. They were. Knew they were talking about back in the 1950s.
Producer Dave
00:04:18.520 - 00:04:21.960
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like, no, no, this really happened.
Colin True
00:04:22.520 - 00:04:54.820
Well, our first industry story, guys. We have, in addition to owning companies like Amer Sports, the parents of folks like arc' Teryx and Salomon.
Chinese sportswear brand Anta also has a wide range of products from trail run to basketball footwear. And apparel and they're a retailer.
And on the heels of exhibiting at the running event a few weeks back, ANTA announced they will be opening their first US based store in Beverly Hills. No specific date as to when the shop will open, just that it will be soon.
Owen, what does this, or perhaps what could this mean for the U.S. outdoor and athletic retail world?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:54.820 - 00:06:11.540
Well, I mean it's clear that ANTA is coming for the US Market, right? I mean they've actually even signed NBA players Kyrie Irving and Klay Thompson. So they're not messing around.
No, they are also, I mean this is not a small brand. They're I think $10 billion in sales. They own the Fila license and some others in China. Major retail presence in China.
So they definitely have the dollars to make a splash. They were at Tre, they had a decent sized booth. I would say it wasn't terribly well trafficked from what I saw.
But to me the big question is, is the US consumer ready to embrace a native Chinese athletic brand that is premium priced, on par with the Nikes of the world? Right. Is the US ready for that? And if it is, how are they going to break into the US market?
You know, Chinese retail market tends to be very brand store centric. So is that going to be the approach where we're just going to see antas popping up all over the place and all the fancy brand areas?
I mean the fact that they're opening in Beverly Hills tells you that this isn't going to be like, you know, down at your mall. I mean they're talking about premium real estate here. So yeah, an interesting one certainly is the challenge.
Colin True
00:06:11.540 - 00:06:44.480
I mean it's probably going to be both. Right, but is it, is it their brand? Is it selling the brand people on the brand that is their own stuff, the ANTA brand or is it the retail side?
Right, because you think about folks like, I don't know, even like a Kathmandu who's had, you could say, could have made the case for maybe coming over and opening retail shops in the US but it doesn't seem like something that they really want to do given the entrenched incumbents here in the US like what do you think the challenge will be here more so like the selling people on their own stuff which they, to your point, they already have a couple of big basketball names tied to it. Or is it going to be, hey, we want to open our own retail stores and now here's another player and getting people to go and shop there.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:44.720 - 00:07:30.430
Linked, which is, you know, do you Have a brand that people care about. Right. And so it's a little bit easier on the wholesale side to get, you know, some level of. A quicker level of distribution across the country.
If you can get into the right retailers and they are online with Dick's Sporting Goods. I don't think they're in any Dick sporting goods stores.
So they have some sell in but you know, I mean you can open up a whole shit ton of stores and if nobody knows about the brand or cares about the brand, it's just not going to go well. So I feel like, you know, I feel like there's going to have to be some kind of.
Either if it's a regional approach, a big regional brand push or if they're going to go national, then a national brand push. You know where we're going to see the Antoname show up on, you know, you know, the ads for major sporting events. Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:07:30.670 - 00:07:40.370
I would call and you say what's the big obstacle to Anta moving into North America? Good old fashioned bigotry probably would be the first thing I would look how.
Colin True
00:07:40.370 - 00:07:42.570
We embrace bigotry in this nation over the last 12 months.
Producer Dave
00:07:42.570 - 00:08:20.880
Exactly, exactly. I mean it's like it's nothing. It's not going to be their product, it's not going to be their American athletes.
It's just going to be kind of the American kind of knee jerk reaction. I mean look at Lee Ning. Lee Ning started, you know, moved to Portland in 2008. They had a big push. They had a lot of American athletes too.
They had product. They were definitely. And they were never able to gain traction. And they are far. I think they were the.
I don't know if it's still the case, but certainly the leading sports brand in China at that time. So I just, I think we're going to have a natural hesitancy to it.
And again, it's not like it's an uncrowded marketplace and we don't have plenty of choices. So I mean they're definitely fighting for that.
Colin True
00:08:20.880 - 00:08:25.000
And it's one store. Right. And a premium market. Let's see how it goes. Right.
Producer Dave
00:08:25.000 - 00:08:44.500
As we're going to talk about in a little bit here. You know, they've got some really great brands that already have presence here.
You know, Wilson arc'd Eric's being those choices and they're investing heavily into those retail environments. I mean Wilson has come so far in the last five, six years. Just, it's incredible what they've done. They've always.
Colin True
00:08:44.500 - 00:08:47.260
This is the number one Wilson Pot. I think we talk about them all the time.
Producer Dave
00:08:47.340 - 00:08:50.060
It is. We do. That's right. That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:50.460 - 00:09:14.530
Go for the W. I think that there's just a challenge with any, anything in terms of a, of a Chinese brand is, let's face it, the perception in, in the US market is Chinese brands are cheap. Right.
And that, you know, and I think at least Anta doesn't have to have the baggage of Li Ning, which sounds like a Chinese brand and I just say that, but it's true. So I mean it's like the whole mount to coast of it.
Chris DeMakes
00:09:14.530 - 00:09:14.690
All.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:14.690 - 00:09:33.410
Right. I mean we were, I think all shocked that we had no idea that they're basically a Chinese brand too. Right, right.
And they certainly haven't gone out of their way to make that clear in their brand positioning, which I think is smart. But yeah, the ontopiece, I don't know, it's going to take some dollars, some big dollars.
Colin True
00:09:33.490 - 00:09:39.870
They must have a war chest though, right. Other brands are just crushing it, especially in as. So I assume that this is probably a good time from a financial.
Producer Dave
00:09:39.950 - 00:09:48.510
It's not money or product. It's going to be perception. Right. It's definitely going to. And let's be fair, most of the American brands we're buying are Chinese brands anyway, so.
Chris DeMakes
00:09:49.790 - 00:09:50.350
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:50.750 - 00:09:53.630
Or what they might be made there. Yes, potentially.
Producer Dave
00:09:54.190 - 00:09:54.590
Right.
Colin True
00:09:54.830 - 00:10:31.200
Well, let's segue into one of Anto's, you know, most well known properties.
Last week, a feature on arc' Teryx in the Wall Street Journal highlighted the brand's massive growth in Asia and highlighted how they went from about 70% of their sales coming from wholesale just six years ago to now getting 75% of their sales through direct channels. Arc' Teryx CEO Stuart Hazelton said in the feature that the brand sits quote in between sport and luxury.
I mean, are we entering uncharted waters for arc' Teryx here?
I mean, as any outdoor brand had their growth potential, had arc' Teryx's growth potential and also been able to authentically embrace the fashion side of the business the way they have. I mean, what does this mean for.
Producer Dave
00:10:31.200 - 00:10:32.360
Them other than North Face?
Colin True
00:10:32.720 - 00:10:46.480
Yeah, well, they're the closest, but I think even arc' Teryx is still they. The North Face has tried to still like keep one toe in the core outdoor world. Arc' Teryx is like, nah, man, we're bigger than that.
We're outdoor, we're fashion, we're everything and we set our own rules.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:46.480 - 00:11:18.140
It feels like, you know, I think listeners of the POD would know I'm a huge fan of arc' Teryx for the longest time. They were actually our number one brand at Moosejo for a time. Yeah. Great product, great brand.
The thing is that they're very different things to different people in different markets. Like in China, they are a luxury brand, plain and simple.
I mean, you might say, oh, you know, only 20% of arcterics buyers in the US market actually, you know, go out and do stuff in their product and that's everything. It's probably. Exactly. It's probably 2% in China.
Colin True
00:11:18.140 - 00:11:18.460
Yeah, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:18.460 - 00:12:44.410
I mean, you know, there isn't really a huge sort of, you know, outdoor activity, you know, element to the Chinese lifestyle. So it is purely a luxury play in China. It's actually more expensive in China, which I think is a little bit crazy.
Like you look at an Alpha SV that costs $900 here now in the U.S. woof. For a shell. $900, that's over a thousand dollars in China. Okay.
But the funny pricing dynamic with luxury is the more expensive it is, the more desirable it is in a way. So yeah, I think the challenge they have right now though is because China is becoming their most important market.
That's really what's driving the, driving the bus. And I feel like the enthusiast element of the US market is just going to get left behind, quite frankly.
It's a fashion play, it's a core play, it's a whatever play over here. Yes, it'll show up in some of the higher end resort stores or higher end outdoor specialty stores.
But at the end of the day, if you're an enthusiast looking for a great shell, arc' Teryx would fit the bill. But, but I don't know, it just, I don't think it's going to be where you're going to go.
You're going to find probably a better shell at a better price and not have maybe some of the quite frankly, baggage now that Arc Tracks is carrying in the fact that it is kind of this luxury gorp core brand.
Colin True
00:12:45.129 - 00:13:12.280
But to that point, haven't they sort of removed themselves from ever becoming like a zombie brand? At this point they sort of elevated themselves kind of above the rest. I mean they also, you know, they're able to survive PR hits.
Like the whole Himalaya thing. They have like that was like of a bunch that was over in like 10 seconds. Like nobody cared, you know, I don't know, it just feels like a.
This feels, I don't think this is nothing we've seen before. It feels like with arc' Teryx. Dave, how do you feel about the brand, where it's headed and all?
You know, the kind of the way they're positioning themselves, like, right in between sport and luxury.
Producer Dave
00:13:12.680 - 00:13:25.520
I think it's the natural place. I think it's just one of the first to get there. I think we'll see. I mean, we already see others.
Why isn't, like, what satisfy doing a similar kind of approach? Right, sure.
Colin True
00:13:25.520 - 00:13:28.320
That's what they want to be. Right. That's got to be on the mood board.
Producer Dave
00:13:28.320 - 00:14:30.720
And arc' Teryx is a model that's created. I mean, like we said, you know, are people showing up at the crag in a new shiny arc' Teric jacket? Probably not. Right?
Maybe a used one, but I would say anybody with trust fund craggers. Yeah, right. Well, anybody who calls it a crag ain't doing that. And they're certainly not spending 900 bucks on. On that piece. But no, it's. It's.
It's the umbrella. It fits into all parts of society. I think it's really more of a testament with what North Face has pioneered in that sense.
And what Montclair has done is just really the obsequious nature of. Of outdoor into our culture that is now just part of mainstream kind of fashion sense. And, and let's face it, functional need, having.
Having our clothing work and function for us to keep us warm, dry, cool and safe is that baseline. And so now I've got that met. Now I've got a style sense to it. I want to look good doing it.
In arc' Tarek's case, I just want it to be black and sleek. And there you go.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:30.720 - 00:15:09.780
I mean, you look at the pricing of outdoor product nowadays, it is in the luxury tier in some cases. We talked about, the new Patagonia Pow slayer shell was $800. It's like, I mean, middle America isn't spending $800 on a shell. They're just not.
And it's interesting.
You talk about sort of the shiny new aspect of it in talking to Aaron over at Gear Trader, arc' Teryx is like, that is the number one, like, if they can get. If they can get more used, arc', Teryx, it commands a premium on the used market more than any other brand out there.
Producer Dave
00:15:09.780 - 00:15:13.060
It will help fuel our secondhand industry.
Colin True
00:15:13.940 - 00:15:27.440
We're going to. I don't want to step on the north face is coming up later in the six pack.
But is it almost more impressive that they've maybe been able to keep one toe in reality, given all the kind of similar things that they've done. Not reality, but kind of like in the core. Not reality, but you know what I mean?
Producer Dave
00:15:27.440 - 00:15:31.360
Like, just because they're priced out doesn't mean they're not supporting the core.
Colin True
00:15:32.720 - 00:15:37.680
Feels like an everyman kind of brand. And AR does not feel that way, relatively speaking.
Producer Dave
00:15:37.680 - 00:15:39.520
I don't. Well, because they make tents.
Chris DeMakes
00:15:39.920 - 00:15:40.200
Right.
Producer Dave
00:15:40.200 - 00:15:40.720
You know what I mean?
Eoin Comerford
00:15:40.720 - 00:15:42.040
Like, is.
Producer Dave
00:15:42.040 - 00:15:45.360
Is a soft goods brand, you know, like that for the most part.
Colin True
00:15:45.760 - 00:15:57.940
Derek's Valance, by the way, which by the way is completely like inflated in terms of how. What the quality actually is. It's the same fabrics just designed differently and they jack the way, way up.
But I mean, but it still has created that perception of like.
Producer Dave
00:15:57.940 - 00:15:58.300
Right.
Colin True
00:15:58.460 - 00:16:00.900
They're closer to Montclair, but that's what I mean.
Producer Dave
00:16:00.900 - 00:16:06.380
But they're still supporting these core sports and athletes and providing them forums to do what they do.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:06.380 - 00:16:06.780
For sure.
Producer Dave
00:16:06.780 - 00:16:24.340
I mean, they create beautiful messaging, branding, documentary filmmaking. I mean, that's, that's supporting the core and they do a really nice job at that. So I would, I hesitate to say that they're not part of that.
It's just that they have found a, a larger space to play in and good for him.
Colin True
00:16:24.340 - 00:16:30.100
Well, when, when they come out with, you know, their New York Fashion Week, you know, athlete film, then we'll know that they've fully gone the other way.
Producer Dave
00:16:30.100 - 00:16:30.660
Right, right.
Colin True
00:16:30.660 - 00:16:35.660
You know, I love this money, but we went with the model on the Runway instead.
Producer Dave
00:16:35.660 - 00:16:38.660
Yeah, I'm a sucker for them. They're nice to me.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:38.660 - 00:17:17.360
To me, the question is like, I used to, you know, if I would see somebody with boring piece of arcterics, I'm like, oh, okay, this person knows a thing about a thing or two. Right? I mean, right. They're buying the right shit, you know. At what point does that turn to, oh, this be a bit of a douchebag. Right?
So nice BMW, dude. Exactly. Right? So that's the danger. Like, if, if, if it just becomes a finance bro brand, then I think you know, which.
And, and they'll probably be very successful being a finance bro brand. But my question is, does. Is the outdoor enthusiast part of it lost at that point?
Colin True
00:17:17.360 - 00:18:14.470
Right. The enthusiast still should be aspirational. Like, you see an enthusiast wearing our tears, like, oh, sweet.
You know, your stuff, you spend a little extra money on, on your piece of gear. Right. Ve. Oh, you just have money and you don't care. Yeah, that's a good point. All right, coming up, third in the six pack, L.L. bean.
All right, per Retail Dive. L.L. bean will be opening eight new stores include including locations in Alabama and Tennessee, with plans to open 8 to 10 more in 2027.
In addition to more of their own stores, the venerable main brand and retailer has been making real inroads with wholesale accounts as well. They've brought on a team of independent sales reps and they've been really going for it, you know. Owen, what do you think of the strategy from Bean?
I mean, they're kind of in this unique, their legacy brand. They're unique in the, in the outdoor landscape. They have a ton of authenticity. But can they become a fixture in wholesale?
I don't think of them as a brand that if I went into like an independent gear shop, I would see, oh, expect to see L.L. bean. I think of L.L. bean when I'm, hey, I'm in Freeport or I'm in one of their outlet stores. That's when I think of L.L. bean.
What do you think of the strategy?
Eoin Comerford
00:18:15.350 - 00:18:38.770
Yeah, so actually at Mooser, we were one of their very first wholesale launch partners back in, I think it was fall of 23. Part of that was because I connected with their CEO Stephen Smith, because he had actually been at Walmart before L.L. bean.
And so I'd love to tell you that of all the learnings from that launch, but that was also our last season as an independent.
Colin True
00:18:39.410 - 00:18:41.090
Welcome aboard. And we're closed.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:41.810 - 00:19:39.290
And oh, by the way, we're selling all of your stuff to a jobber. So yeah, it wasn't great.
But no, I think to your point, they have a huge amount of authenticity and obviously the Bean boot and all the rest of it and some very specific styles that are theirs and that have a specific L.L. bean look.
I think they also have, quite frankly, a lot of stuff that is fairly generic that we, you know, the khakis and the flannels and the whatever. So from a retail perspective, if you can bring in some of the unique pieces that talk to Bean, I think that works.
Just don't bring in kind of the, all the stuff that fills out their line. And, and also, I mean, let's face it, more and more outdoor stores are leading more lifestyle.
And you know, I don't think anyone's going to try to sell Bean as a performance brand, but as a lifestyle fill in. Sure, I, I see, I could see that happening.
Colin True
00:19:39.290 - 00:19:59.900
I do love the idea of like, well, I'm curious how much of a hit, maybe even some outdoor brands have taken. More core outdoor brands have taken in terms of like their lifestyle assortments at Some of these stores, it's like, well, I'll have Bean now.
I don't need to buy our flannels and our khakis or whatever it is from Patagonia or the North Face or marmot or whatever it is, because we have Bean kind of filling that need, you know. Dave, What. Where are you set on Bean these days?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:00.460 - 00:20:00.780
Well.
Producer Dave
00:20:00.780 - 00:20:08.580
Well, look, it is. I mean, maybe. Maybe in where they're opening stores, it's still kind of a Yankee Exotic outdoor brand. Did you know what I mean?
Colin True
00:20:08.580 - 00:20:09.580
Yankee Exotic.
Producer Dave
00:20:10.140 - 00:20:12.780
Right. It's just. It's just not something that's been.
Colin True
00:20:13.020 - 00:20:16.300
I want to start a Yankee Exotic brand. I think we're onto something with this day.
Producer Dave
00:20:16.460 - 00:20:16.860
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:16.940 - 00:20:18.540
I think that should be the name Yankee.
Producer Dave
00:20:18.540 - 00:20:37.140
The right Yankee Exotic. But it's just like, see, you grew up in the Northeast, even in the Northwest. Like, it's been around a lot for a long time.
But maybe that's not the case in some parts of the country where it's. Sure, you know about it, but it's just not something that you would go and see in the store.
Colin True
00:20:37.380 - 00:20:38.420
Actually, that's a good point.
Producer Dave
00:20:38.660 - 00:20:39.780
Now it's a new offering.
Colin True
00:20:39.780 - 00:20:44.580
Was it a fixture for you on growing up? Because it was such a fixture for me growing up in the northeast, like, oh, L.L. bean.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:44.980 - 00:20:46.550
I didn't grow up in this country, so no.
Colin True
00:20:47.260 - 00:20:49.020
Oh, you were here. You've been here since you were 18.
Producer Dave
00:20:49.020 - 00:20:51.100
He wore a potato sack, Colin.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:51.100 - 00:20:55.500
That's all that was when. I don't know, I arrived here at 18. I was already grown up.
Colin True
00:20:55.980 - 00:20:56.500
Good point.
Producer Dave
00:20:56.500 - 00:20:56.860
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:56.860 - 00:21:01.100
I mean, it was always. It was a catalog company. Right. Was how I. Or catalog. Right.
Colin True
00:21:01.100 - 00:21:01.500
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:01.580 - 00:21:39.050
And a little bit old and fuddy duddy to a degree. Sure.
But it's interesting that the stores that you're talking about, you know, to the Yankee Exotic of it all, are opening up in the south, because that's really. The south right now is the hub of Preppy. Right. You look at all of the coastal tailgate, Southern, whatever.
There's different brands that are only like Southern brands, which are in many ways kind of ripping off. Ripping off the ll Beans of the world. And that whole college vibe is very. In the south is very, very preppy.
So I could certainly see them finding an interesting new audience down there.
Producer Dave
00:21:40.240 - 00:21:43.280
Ripped off. They've ripped off Vineyard Vines, most specifically.
Colin True
00:21:43.440 - 00:21:50.320
Okay, fair say we're going to get a rumble between People in L. L. Bean and Vineyard Vines. But they're both wearing. Hey, dudes. Dude.
Producer Dave
00:21:50.720 - 00:21:55.200
Hey, dudes. Faraday. And Vineyard Vines can go at It.
Colin True
00:21:55.200 - 00:22:40.220
Okay, fourth in the. In the six pack, here we have the color of the year.
So outdoor apparel brand product folks are surely keeping an eye on a recent controversy in color trends. After Pantone announced that Cloud Dancer was the color of the year. This is effectively just a shade of. There was pushback from the design community.
And per sgb, those who were unhappy should be pleased to learn that Stitch Fix has named Chili Red their color of the year. Stitch Fix also announced that trends such as throwback to the 90s, sporty looks and collegiate inspired looks.
Good segue from that conversation, guys. Well done. We're all popular in 2025. Guys.
I do have to ask out of reading this, will we ever get a big outdoor brand to lean into trend and color to shake up the grays and blacks and beiges that we routinely get?
Eoin Comerford
00:22:40.380 - 00:22:55.970
First of all, what I would say is those grays and blacks, that's really more of a men's story. Women will actually buy color, and there's a lot more interesting stuff and color stories that happen over there.
Dusty purples were really the thing, like two years ago.
Colin True
00:22:57.250 - 00:23:00.850
But Dusty Purple is the first album from Yankee Exotic.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:01.250 - 00:23:49.480
Oh, I love it. And it's funny because in the history of the outdoor industry, bright colors were important.
They were an important safety element for mountaineering jackets, et cetera, Right? But guess what? The reality is most people are mountaineering in these things.
And, you know, most guys are boring af and they just want something that, you know, that they don't have to think about. A black jacket you can throw on over everything, it'll last forever, you know, etc. So. So that's the real problem.
It doesn't matter what, what the hell Pantone is saying. It's like, whatever, we're buying black.
And it was a real challenge, I would say, when you were trying to merchandise a store, especially in the men's section, because realistically, if you just merchandised it with what sold, it would all be black, blue, and gray 100%. That would be the whole store.
Colin True
00:23:49.880 - 00:23:59.160
I was in REI recently and there was no chili red. There was a lot of black, gray.
And even in the women's side, there were definitely some more colors to your play, but it still was pretty basic, Right?
Eoin Comerford
00:23:59.160 - 00:24:42.590
And so what we used to do at Moose Chart is actually we would go through because we would usually carry most of the colors of a, of a product, at least in our bigger brands. So there would be some colors that would be considered core. Every store would get those colors.
There would be breath colors, which would be saleable colors. Depending upon the size of the store, its sales might get those additional colors. And then we would have what we call splash colors.
These were colors that probably weren't going to sell very well, and we would just sort of smatter them into a store here or there and actually use that store as the fc or we would ship from that store because the only way we could sell through it in a season and not basically be buying a markdown was to actually sell it online because we would maybe sell one in the store. Right?
Colin True
00:24:42.590 - 00:24:43.070
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:43.710 - 00:24:46.270
So. But yeah, it's. It's. It's a tough part of a merchandising.
Colin True
00:24:46.270 - 00:24:52.990
Strategy to draw the eye. Right. Oh, there's. There's an orange shirt. What's going on over there? And then they pick up the black and go to the register. Right.
And that kind of thing.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:52.990 - 00:24:54.030
Right? Yeah, exactly.
Colin True
00:24:54.350 - 00:24:56.110
Dave, where are you sitting on color these days?
Producer Dave
00:24:56.430 - 00:25:37.200
Well, I think we've lost the plot here. We're talking about color of the year here, right? Here we go. I mean, like, goodness gracious.
Which, first off, I just have to, like, you know, right out of the gate, what is SGB citing Stitch Fix for their color of the Year? What? That's a. Who cares? I mean, you're talking about our industry. Pantone Coloro, wgsn.
Those are the groups that actually set the palettes that influence our products that we see on the shelf. So that. That's. So I don't care. Whose Chili red is that? That's fine.
But let's also case that was probably a color o color two years ago, setting up for 2026 that the retail brand Stitch Fix then incorporated.
Colin True
00:25:37.200 - 00:25:40.560
You have to admit that Cloud Dancer sounds way more pretentious than Chili Red, though.
Producer Dave
00:25:40.640 - 00:25:49.840
Way more pretentious. And I think the issue with Cloud Dancer, the controversy really, is that it's such a meh. Like, really, there's just like, are you kidding me?
Like, that's the color.
Colin True
00:25:49.840 - 00:25:53.720
But this has been the year of white. Back to our bigotry comment. You know, maybe this guy.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:53.720 - 00:25:54.240
Exactly.
Producer Dave
00:25:54.240 - 00:27:18.040
I actually, because I thought this was such a funny. Just inclusion, I actually reached out to a woman, Dawn Rae Knoth. Okay. She's a color designer, a trend forecaster. She's worked.
She's pretty much every brand in the outdoor. But Mystery Ranch, Hydro Flask, Sitka, brands like that, and she works on their color palettes. And her job is really to divine the future. Right.
What are we doing 18, 24 months out as we start to build our products? And she said like, you gotta understand the color of the year really is a. It's a marketing tool.
It's an interesting data point, but it's really about this collective narrative. Collective narrative that you see across industries and categories. It's way too late to be anything meaningful in 26.
That's why you will never see chile red right now if that's the color of the year. But she just kind of put it back.
But she also, you know, said, look, if you ever want to understand the emotional power of color, just look at the reactions to color of the year. Right. I mean, it's just like, like. And I just thought that was a really, really great point. She. She actually writes a sub.
A substack called Creative Intelligence. So check it out. But just interesting thoughts on the. On color theory, things like that. But yeah, I just thought that would.
Required a little bit deeper knowledge than just the, you know, blue and gray and green cell.
Colin True
00:27:18.120 - 00:27:42.220
It's one reason I wanted to put it on the outline, too, is because, like, you know, for the folks who don't. Who try to think of the outdoor as sort of this, you know, the kind of the gatekeepy folks of, like, it's just about the core activity.
It's like, look, man, even. Even the more cor. So if they pick a color of what something's going to be, so these things matter.
And also I was thinking, like, well, is chili red cloud. Cloud dancer, is that stuff that's in market now or just the colors that are trending during the design phase now that we'll see in 18 months.
Producer Dave
00:27:42.220 - 00:28:02.320
And as Owen pointed out, even just in, you know, kind of laying out how a store might be merchandised. American outdoor brands aren't really known for their groundbreaking color. Right. And their outlandish style.
I mean, like, like you said, rei, right now at this moment, there are four shades of taupe. I guarantee you there are four shade of taupe.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:03.360 - 00:28:09.200
So also. Well, WGSN did come out with their color for 2026. It is transformative teal.
Producer Dave
00:28:09.760 - 00:28:14.920
Yes. Oh, no, you're absolutely right. Sustainability kind of crowd. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:14.920 - 00:28:20.280
Much more, Much more exciting. A little bit of a deeper, deeper teal. Actually, I think it's pretty cool.
Colin True
00:28:20.280 - 00:28:22.880
I found teal to be the most transformative of all the colors.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:22.880 - 00:28:51.200
Oh, absolutely. The interesting.
The interesting thing from an outdoor industry perspective is, you know, all of the colors that are going to be introduced next year, all that shit's been in the works for forever. Right, right. I mean, 2023, those samples have been made, those workbooks were Printed months ago. So, yeah.
So if teal is the color of 26, we can expect to see it in 2027 or 2028.
Colin True
00:28:51.200 - 00:28:51.560
Exactly.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:51.560 - 00:28:51.840
Maybe.
Colin True
00:28:51.840 - 00:29:17.630
Maybe so. Maybe even lingering in the 29. Who knows? You're behind the eight ball in that one. So 2025, maybe be remembered as the year of skims.
Because in addition to the continued sale of Nike Skims, which, by the way, if you haven't looked in a while, exists as a standalone button on the Nike website, if you go to nike.com, there's Nike Skims. That's a little. That's a ding to Dave's ACG stock. I feel like. I feel like we need to take a. A little bit different brand, Colin.
Producer Dave
00:29:17.630 - 00:29:21.350
Different brand. The North Basin Skims Hard line. Hard line.
Colin True
00:29:21.510 - 00:29:52.450
But the North Basin Skims are back together again with a new batch of winter products. And this time they have stuff for your kids. You can now get baby, toddler or small child, a TNF Skims branded Nuptsie jacket or one piece.
It does seem that TNF is doing most of the heavy lifting here with the Nuptsy being the iconic Puffy and the Skims part of it being the color. Back to our color conversation. And showing up as a logo on the chest. So I just want to throw it out there. Guys, thoughts on the new Nike skims?
Excuse me. TNF skims collection.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:53.410 - 00:30:07.440
I mean, skims, kids stuff. Okay, just. Just so that we're clear, Skims is a brand that has a thong with fake pubic hair on it. It has a bra with fake nipples.
Colin True
00:30:07.440 - 00:30:08.080
Four kids.
Producer Dave
00:30:08.400 - 00:30:09.720
And we're gonna do that for kids.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:09.720 - 00:30:18.400
That's what we should. You know, what about bras for kids with fake nipples and fake pubic hair? I mean, gee, what the. I mean, okay, I. I don't see the appeal.
Colin True
00:30:18.400 - 00:30:26.240
I mean, a lot of times these. I defend these collabs, and I may even the TNF skims, like, okay, sure, you made a thing that's got the color. I get it. This one's a little weird.
Like, why?
Eoin Comerford
00:30:26.310 - 00:30:26.550
Why?
Colin True
00:30:26.630 - 00:30:45.590
First of all, I worked in the outdoor industry forever. I get tons of free stuff.
When my kids were little, we bought a lot of, like, outerwear like, at Old Navy or whatever, because it's going to be worn for two months, and then they're going to outgrow it. So a $200 nupsy in general is probably like a non starter. And then now, like, who cares if it's like the collab with skims?
I'm guarantee you, though, people are buying it someone out there is buying.
Producer Dave
00:30:45.670 - 00:31:20.610
You guys are completely discounting the power of the fitted mom and kid. I think the, you know, I think there is a strong allure.
In fact, when we were at Tre, I was at a coffee shop morning after and a woman came in with her three year old and they were hooked up so perfectly. I mean shoes, pants, everything was just.
And they looked like they were a photo that went together and I just had to watch them walk by just in marvel at the. The color matching going on here. And it was, it was really impressive. They were one. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:20.610 - 00:31:22.610
So I think that's first kid.
Producer Dave
00:31:22.770 - 00:31:24.010
That's what we're seeing. Oh yeah.
Colin True
00:31:24.010 - 00:31:28.810
I remember making a lot more attempts for my daughter when she was my first daughter to like have like matching things on.
Producer Dave
00:31:31.130 - 00:31:32.810
Wear the hand me down.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:33.290 - 00:31:41.730
I mean you've got way too much time on your hands if you're doing that. And as. As long as they're. If they're leaving the house with pants and a jacket, I mean, I think that's a way.
Producer Dave
00:31:41.730 - 00:31:42.930
Well, you gotta respect it though.
Colin True
00:31:42.930 - 00:31:44.090
Some of that's negotiable.
Producer Dave
00:31:44.250 - 00:31:51.610
That took some care, right? That stuff. They just weren't light colors. They went together. I have a feeling that's what's going on here.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:51.690 - 00:31:52.170
Yeah.
Colin True
00:31:52.170 - 00:31:54.730
All they're missing is the dog. Yeah, that matches.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:55.050 - 00:31:55.490
Yeah.
Colin True
00:31:55.490 - 00:32:28.950
Well, if you want to, you know, we still plenty of time before Christmas folks, so if you want to get your k a $200 skims branded ny it's out there for you. All right. Last. Last beer in the six pack.
Kappa has unveiled their kits ahead of the Olympics as the provider of the of apparel to the US Ski and snowboard team. Taking a look at it, I'll link it in the show notes. The apparel itself is fine. It looks like you're pretty standard fair winter outdoor apparel.
But I think it's safe to say that the Kappa brand and maybe the colors aren't very patriotic. Dave, you know, you want to describe what's going on with Kappa to our listeners.
Producer Dave
00:32:28.950 - 00:32:54.570
This is just more of a hot take ramp and it's more, you know, since we're in the color today, it just kind of fits. I've seen a few kind of unboxings of the new uniforms from some of the athletes. And like you said, the kit looks great.
I mean all of the pieces look nice. They've got the training, the base layers, the the kind of lifestyle pieces and then the outerwear all. All look solid.
But from just kind of an American sensibility. The colors of kind of Gray and magenta.
Colin True
00:32:54.570 - 00:33:02.130
Well, who's Kappa? Tell.
Tell the listeners who Kappa is, because, I mean, I, you know, I mean, I was familiar, but not that they're like, you know, like soccer fashion brand.
Producer Dave
00:33:02.290 - 00:33:08.870
They're an ital sport brand. Right. I mean, that's. Of course, they're sponsoring the US Snowboarding. That totally makes sense.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:08.870 - 00:33:09.350
Exactly.
Colin True
00:33:09.350 - 00:33:09.550
What.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:09.550 - 00:33:12.430
What says patriotism like an Italian sportsman?
Producer Dave
00:33:12.430 - 00:33:29.520
Well, and look, I don't think you have to have, like, Carolina blues and brick red. Like, you don't have to have just, like, unwieldy red, white, and blues in your. In your color palette, but it is a uniform for the actual event.
You would just think that you might follow those guides a little bit more for.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:29.670 - 00:33:36.630
For the event. We're also, you know, skimming over the fact that their logo looks like a mud flap on a semi.
Producer Dave
00:33:36.710 - 00:33:39.230
Yes, it does. It's a fantastic mud, folks.
Colin True
00:33:39.230 - 00:33:45.990
That's not an exaggeration. There's no hyperbole in that statement. It legitimately looks like something you've seen on a mud flap on a segment.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:45.990 - 00:33:46.390
You have.
Producer Dave
00:33:46.470 - 00:33:54.390
Look, you. It's. Look, I. Like I said, in the 70s, there was either that mud flap or Yosemite Sam. Those were the mud flaps that were on every. Every semi.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:54.470 - 00:33:57.460
We're talking about the reclining naked lady mutt flap for those years.
Producer Dave
00:33:57.460 - 00:33:58.300
Yes, that's right.
Colin True
00:33:58.460 - 00:34:02.100
Now, this is a little more of the time. It's a man and a woman in.
Producer Dave
00:34:02.100 - 00:34:04.380
This one, but they're reclining back to back.
Colin True
00:34:04.460 - 00:34:08.460
But. Yeah, but my Gen X brain saw it and just assumed it was two women.
Producer Dave
00:34:09.500 - 00:34:14.780
And they use it as a kind of an oversized logo, too. So when you see it on kit, it's big. It's right there.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:14.780 - 00:34:15.740
It is not small.
Colin True
00:34:16.140 - 00:37:50.270
Yeah, our pal Gia Abbey Shantae Salibare thought it was just basically a woman spreading her legs. She didn't even see the two people. Of course, that was Shantae, but, you know, no comment. Hey, Rock fighters.
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All right, for our main topic today, we want to take a temperature read of what's happening with outdoor trade shows because, you know, 2025 is wrapping up. We're coming off the heels of the running event a couple weeks ago.
Goa Connect last month thought it'd be a good time to kind of just like check in on the trade show scene. So I wanted to start with, you know, here's a rundown of the events that I have for North America.
You guys let me know if I've missed anyone I'm sure I have because I just did this really quickly before we got on the call. Right. So we have the Outdoor Market alliance media event.
I kind of thinking in my head about how this goes in the category calendar, which happens twice a year. Then we have Goa Connect happens twice a year. Functional Fabric Fair happens twice a year. Now you can before I go on. Right.
So if you go back to old or, the media event there that was really replaces the media appointments you would have had at or.
Goa Connect kind of replaces a lot of the meetings you might have had with retailers at or And Functional Fabric replaces sort of the sourcing area you had at or. From there you get into Sea Otter. That's bike.
It's not really typically our audience here, but you know, a lot of folks who listen do go to Sea Otter. I'm definitely interested in checking out that show at some point. We got the outside festival and summit happening in June.
We get into Switchback Spring. We now have the OIA Rendezvous. I don't know if there's dates for that yet, but we know that's going to be on the calendar.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:50.270 - 00:37:51.230
March, March, April.
Colin True
00:37:51.230 - 00:38:29.020
Okay, so it'll be earlier in the year, but it's. That's going to happen. Then we have Outdoor Retailer happening in the summer.
Then some of the other ones I mentioned will repeat and then before we end back at the running event. So that is a healthy list that doesn't even include ISPO and performance days, which are, you know, the more European versions of functional fabric.
It doesn't include any national shoe shows, fashion shows, regional rep shows. And you know, like I mentioned, a lot of this list was covered in a twice annual event in or.
So I guess let's just start with generally speaking, after everything we've been through over the last year, the events we've gotten to go to. How are you both feeling about the state of national outdoor events heading into 2026?
Eoin Comerford
00:38:30.140 - 00:38:31.020
Exhausted.
Colin True
00:38:32.460 - 00:38:35.950
So much writing that list. I'm like, oh my God, there's so much.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:36.100 - 00:38:41.460
Much I know. And I've actually been to a lot of these this year. You're also leaving off Outdoor Media Summit.
Colin True
00:38:41.460 - 00:38:43.300
Oh my God, the winter sports.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:44.100 - 00:38:49.620
Exactly. Winter sports market in Salt Lake City, which has kind of become a little bit the ski show for the industry.
Colin True
00:38:49.620 - 00:38:52.580
There's like a Boston ski show. I think that happens more consumer, but.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:52.580 - 00:38:53.780
That'S more of a consumer show.
Colin True
00:38:53.780 - 00:38:54.180
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:54.260 - 00:39:31.690
There's the Lux ski show, which is for the fancy ski people. That. That's in Denver. Fancy. So many shows. Yeah. And I think to your point, there's like four, four things that, or used to give us that these.
All these things are trying to fill in the national industry get together, which is the Outside Summit, Switchback Spring Rendezvous, National Outdoor Media Event, Outdoor Media Summit, OMA, et cetera, National Snow Sports Show, Winter Sports Market, Lux Ski show and International Sourcing Fair, Functional Fabric Fair Performance Days. I mean like, yeah, you're right. We used to be able to cover most of this with basically two shows and now it takes 12.
Colin True
00:39:31.850 - 00:39:33.550
How many was that? Yeah, like 12 shows.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:33.620 - 00:39:35.300
Shows, right. It's crazy.
Colin True
00:39:35.540 - 00:39:37.620
Dave, general thoughts on. On events.
Producer Dave
00:39:38.660 - 00:40:56.740
Yeah, like you said, exhaustion is probably the, the best, best way. Look, I like the specialization that we've kind of getting to where the show is about what you're there for.
You can reduce it down to a couple days and get more out what you need. I think that's, that's fantastic. We are still looking for that meaningful connection, connector and connection of an industry and a vibe.
I, I think we have heard from people going to these shows that the podcast here can function in a little bit like that.
It creates a space for everyone to kind of go to and talk a little bit of shop and talk a little bit of and just you know, just kind of like, you know, get together in a shared vocabulary and kind of understanding. I think that is needed to join an industry. I think industries suffer when they lose their, their central meeting place.
I think the athletic industry lost some of its insular and kind of, you know, more neighborly feel when super show went away. I think it crushed the local retailer of action sports when action sport retailer went away in terms of the skate shop, you know, things like that.
So I think it's really critical that we keep trying to find a come together for the good of the whole versus just the commercial transaction action.
Colin True
00:40:57.060 - 00:42:13.010
Well, and that's a popular thing to say, right? I mean you hear most people say like you're coming together for a national event, like bringing the industry together. And that is important.
And it's funny having attended a fair amount of these events now that happens in all forms, right? You're getting people in a room is a good thing.
Especially you know, give the digital age or most of the times it's we're meeting over zoom, being together, interesting things happen, leads get generated, all that kind of stuff. But you still kind of need. And by the way, there's still brands that I've talked to who I'm sure you guys have as well.
Like we need to figure out a way to get back to what we had. And to that I just would say, look, that ship has sailed. Please stop saying that.
We're going to try and revert back to a singular kind of thing that, where everything can happen. Unless you're going to tell all these people to shut down their events.
But I think you still need to have that undeniable thing that creates FOMO so people won't question it. Right?
Because one thing to say, it's a little, just too nebulous to say, hey, you're going to spend all this money on T and E so we can all hang out, right? It's like what is that one thing that also says but here's the real reason you're coming, that you can justify the T and E spend, spend.
Tre has that right. I think we left Tre being like, oh, we see why this show happens at the retailer awards at the end of it.
Like this is the show that is the center point, the north star of this event are those retailers and everything kind of expands out from there. Aside from that, is there anyone making that kind of proposition for outdoor right now? And in your guys eyes, I mean.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:13.010 - 00:42:48.240
To me the right now one is actually goa, but by its definition it's a subset so that can't be ish, but it's it, you know, ironically it is ish to a degree. The one that maybe has the best chance of getting there is switchback, I would say. You know, but it's early days.
I mean they have to show some real progress and traction next year if they're going to continue to have the potential to get there. They're, they're definitely not there now.
But you know, if, if they add some more retailers, get some more, get some more brands, et cetera this year, then you know that maybe they're on their way but they're, they're not there yet.
Producer Dave
00:42:48.320 - 00:44:00.380
No, I, I agree with that.
I think that's probably the best that, look, I keep coming back to it is the responsibility of our largest brands to provide the connective tissue and to support the industry that got them to the size that they are today. And I think that's what you see at tre. That's not an award show. That is a collection of big dollar sponsors who make that thing happen. Right.
And they create the party on the front and the party in the back. Right. It's the mullet of entertainment. Entertainment, right. But we need that in the outdoor.
And so right now I think from a T like you're right, smaller brands can't afford Five days or four days of setting up a booth. That's not what we're talking about. Right. We're talking about minimal investment for those that can't afford it to be and participate.
But, but the bigger brands need to step up and create the platform. I just, I really believe that that's what has to happen. We. We can't look at devoting some of my T and E to get together as not a purposeful function.
Why is that any less important than meeting with a retailer that I could have met with online or probably already did three times before we got there? Right. That's not any more effective.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:00.780 - 00:44:44.080
Yeah, I totally agree, Dave. That was sort of the penny of the drop for me with Tre was the fact that this was. This whole event was the brands saying we love you to the.
That's what it was. And in that diversified, who's the group that puts together was like the brand's partner in making it happen. Okay.
And I, I think where the fabric started to fall apart in the outdoor industry was when the brands lost that part of the script with or. And it was like, no, no, no, we're not doing this for the retailers anymore.
It has to be about, you know, it's getting so expensive that there has to be more than that. And that was when we started to move days around to get into buying Windows and all this other shit. Right.
And so we lost that idea of the fact that this is the brand, the brands coming together to basically sponsor a show for the industry.
Producer Dave
00:44:45.040 - 00:44:51.760
And that's gone right around the time private equity starts to make more acquisitions within the industry as well.
Colin True
00:44:51.840 - 00:45:57.420
That's what I was getting at with what I was saying about the brands. And just again, some of it anecdotal, just hearing from other folks and just talking to people.
There's a lot of like, well, this is what a show needs to do for us from the brand point of view. And I think that's exactly what you guys are saying is like, yeah, that's not the right way. You can't look at it that way. Right.
If you're looking for the show to serve you, you and your interests, you know, it's like you're kind of off to a bad start. Like, like what, what's. What is that North Star? I mean, if you want to say it's the retailer. If you want to say it's something else, fine.
You know, it's. If it's consumer. I mean, we're going to talk about outside festival in a minute.
I mean, they, you Know, for all the, you know, grousing we've done around, out about outside on this show, like pretty clear vision about what they're doing there. Say, hey man, we're putting on a big party.
And then other things can filter in around that and it's a pretty, you know, you know, if you're, especially if you like the bands, it's like, oh yeah, I, I want to go to that. Why would, wouldn't you.
We should talk about alo retail for a second though, because they haven't been wasting any time trying to get the attention of the industry. Right. They put out a press release on December 2nd, which was also the first day of the running event announcing their industry day.
Then last week there was a press release. I may have featured someone who's right here on this podcast right now. I, I don't know.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:57.500 - 00:45:58.620
I don't know. Who would that be?
Colin True
00:45:59.020 - 00:46:28.390
They announced there will be a retailer conference as part of a 2026 event with keynote speaker Owen Comerford. And so, you know, I would be surprised if many kind of those large legacy outdoor brands showed up in Minneapolis.
But I do think that they're really or seems intent on finding that value proposition on the emerging brand side and kind of on creating an opportunity for people, creating reasons for people to come, even if it's a bit of a spaghetti against the wall thing. I mean, what did you guys make of this? And actually Owen, maybe to start with you, like what you're going to be speaking.
So what do you think about what they're doing?
Eoin Comerford
00:46:28.870 - 00:47:41.600
Well, they are absolutely leaning into this emerging brand discovery in a big way. I think first of all, it is a real need for retailers.
I mean, the two reasons that I would go to or back in the day was one, had top to top meetings with some of the key brands, talk strategy. We had already bought the line long before. Right. Two, was discovering new brands.
So that first part is off the table for now for most brands, as you've said. Okay. So it just makes perfect sense. Well, let's lean into the other part because that's the piece that I think that they can deliver.
I think the long term play then from their perspective is if we can really, really just a bunch of really cool, interesting, emerging new brands will get the retailers because you need that as a retailer. You really do.
You need something interesting in your store, even if it's just the jewelry that's going to get people excited to come back and see what the hell is new and exciting and they still buy the old stuff. Whatever. But you need that to position yourself as a leader, as a retailer.
So if they can get the retailers back, then ultimately I think the hope is that those legacy brands kind of come filtering back and like, oh, I guess the retailers are all showing up in August, it's not in the middle of June and all these other things. And I think that's the long term.
Colin True
00:47:41.600 - 00:48:45.840
Play here and which is going to be interesting. Hopefully we're going to get a chance to go and see it.
On the switchback side of it, I think if there is that mentality that a lot of brands are showing up expecting there to be just value for the brands instead of saying it, hey, what can we do to attract the retailers to this show too? I don't care if it's in June, I don't care when it is.
We've talked about the June thing to death and I get it that it's a strain on attendance for good reason given regional shows and all these other things. But we talked about last year week, you know, the, the running events in December, the week after Black Friday, like, and they make it work.
Why can't they, why can't the same thing happen in June if you give people a real reason to show up? So, hey, brand, stop saying it's on like diversified to say or whoever to like to get the retailers to show up.
Why are you, what are you going to do to get the retailers to show up? I think that's something that's kind of missing in the conversation right now.
You know, we could go on and on about this and I'm sure that we will as we look ahead at 20, 26 and that list. Do you guys have any predictions? What do you think's going to happen? And will we just be sitting here next year saying the same thing?
Like, what do you think, Dave?
Producer Dave
00:48:45.840 - 00:48:56.920
What do you predict?
I predict that we will see more press releases with Owen and more keynote speaking, but we'll also see Consiglieri next to his name in the press release.
Colin True
00:48:57.080 - 00:48:58.840
That needs to be in your, your writer.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:00.280 - 00:49:04.440
Okay. Yeah, I, I didn't, yeah, I didn't want to drag you into this with me, guys, you know.
Colin True
00:49:06.490 - 00:49:08.010
Oh, hopefully we'll be there with you. What do you got?
Eoin Comerford
00:49:08.010 - 00:49:23.850
Any predictions? God, I don't know. I mean, it's, there's. You talk. It's going to be interesting.
I think I would say that on the or of it all they are definitely putting. This is a full court press. And so I think that there's, there's.
Colin True
00:49:23.850 - 00:49:29.730
Going to Be no straw kitchen sink, man. That's all like, it's everything we got. We're unloading the clip. You know, it takes whatever it takes.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:29.730 - 00:49:55.400
A village, apparently. But. But no, it's good. You're going to see a show. I'm very interested to see what they come up with because they're throwing a lot at this thing.
I'm also super interested to see what ISPO looks like next year. That's cool. We got a chance to meet with the CEO of Raccoon Media when we were at Tre. Hopefully we'll get an interview here in the coming months.
That's super interesting too.
Colin True
00:49:55.560 - 00:49:56.360
Super interesting.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:56.680 - 00:50:06.720
The whole thing is just. Yeah, it's a fun spot to be. And then. Yeah, a lot of personalities and back. Back room dealings. I mean, it's, it's fun.
Colin True
00:50:08.000 - 00:51:08.650
I will say if I were power ranking or maybe saying the, the, the show to keep an eye on. I'm definitely interested you guys. Like you guys said about. Or I mentioned it earlier and they're not paying us yet. Maybe they will after I say this.
I'm. I'm really interested to see what happens with outside days and the outside festival just because of what I'm saying.
Like they make a very clear reason why to attend.
You know, I think if I'm not, you know, the summit, you know, I think that that is something depending on why you would want to attend that if you're a job fair person, then you want to see Mary Beth Lawton sit on a panel, maybe that's not interested to hear what MB would have to say in a public forum to us because we would ask her different questions if she came on our podcast. But if you're there at the job fair, does that maybe actually like, oh my God, I was in a room with the CEO of rei.
Got to hear what she had to say about a few things. Right. So I think they're, you know, again, you know, God, we have a. Go back in the catalog.
We have a Will the, you know, outside festival actually happen? Title of an episode back in the, in the, in the archive here. I don't know. I just said kind of heading into year three. I'm, I'm, I'm keep. I'm.
I might be buying some outside day stock. We'll see.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:08.650 - 00:51:19.110
We'll see how interesting. I mean, I think the interesting thing about that one is that it actually has the consumer aspect to it. Right.
And you look at, you look at most of the shows that are doing well have that. Right?
Producer Dave
00:51:19.110 - 00:51:19.510
Yep.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:19.510 - 00:52:05.620
Whether. Whether it's the Overland Expos that are just killing it. I mean I think they've got seven now across the country. Overland Expos just killing it.
Even, even Raccoon Media's show in Boston, their snow show is. Is consumer Sea Otter. Sea Otter is basically a consumer show. So that to me, in fact I was a little surprised that or didn't go that way.
But I guess they've got retailer in the names so maybe they couldn't. But. But I do think that there is the potential for some form of consumer based outdoor show. They're huge in Europe.
I mean they are just all over the place in Europe. So that would be. If that's the beginning of that and then it becomes like a concert series, not just a one off then you really could have something.
Colin True
00:52:11.790 - 00:52:25.390
All right guys, it's time for the parting shot brought to you by Garage Growing Gear. There are new items constantly being added over on garagegrowingear.com like the canyon Crack Trail butter.
Not just Canyon Crack Trail Butter, round bottom pot sacks.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:26.190 - 00:52:28.190
I love a good bottom pot sack.
Chris DeMakes
00:52:28.350 - 00:52:28.750
Right.
Colin True
00:52:29.070 - 00:52:45.810
No, normal coffee has their classic black coffee paste.
You can see all the amazing new products and brands that are over there by heading to garagegrowingear.com and clicking the flaming hot new button at the top of the page. There's new stuff goes up there almost. D. Dave, you have the floor for the parting shot today. What do you got?
Producer Dave
00:52:45.810 - 00:52:52.490
Well, the parting shot actually today comes from a rock fight listener, Tyler Noonan. Right.
Colin True
00:52:54.650 - 00:52:56.410
I never heard like hall of famer.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:56.970 - 00:52:59.090
Hall of famer Tyler Noonan.
Producer Dave
00:52:59.090 - 00:53:02.330
He is all over my LinkedIn code name Danny, but.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:02.570 - 00:53:03.370
Okay, all right.
Colin True
00:53:03.370 - 00:53:03.930
Yeah, right.
Producer Dave
00:53:06.890 - 00:54:03.720
And the party shot is at squarely at, I'm going to say the Oregon Legislature. Okay. Calling out the Oregon Legislature. They're acting a lot like the Congress quite frankly. And you know, for this is personal for you.
For a deep blue body like the legislature here in Oregon to be acting like the Republican controlled Congress should be an insult to them. But I bring this up because what we're dealing with here is nothing less than I would call a slow motion collapse of our recreation economy.
Right, okay. And it has to do with insurance. And you know, I hate to be the one, you know, be on the side of insurance in any way, but what happened?
We had a court case in 2014 that the Supreme Court ruled that the standard liability waivers were unenforceable and so therefore any kind, anything that would happen.
Eoin Comerford
00:54:03.720 - 00:54:05.520
The Supreme Court of Oregon.
Producer Dave
00:54:05.920 - 00:54:30.180
That's right. Of Oregon.
Oregon actually they called them unconscionable because they were so broad to include, which again, I think, I think it needed some, it needed some revision. But skiing, climbing, taking a guided trip, anything, anything that happened.
And then of course that resulted in some lawsuits, some, you know, heavy payout lawsuits. And so what's happened, you know, over this time, 10 years later, sorry, Dave.
Eoin Comerford
00:54:30.260 - 00:54:33.860
Was that part of the next adventure issue? Because I know they had some liability stuff.
Producer Dave
00:54:34.020 - 00:55:45.790
It absolutely could have been. I don't know if specifically was, but I'll bet you exactly that. Well, what.
But we have enter 2025 and now you have insurance companies all pulling out of the state, leaving the ski resorts like bachelor Timberline hood without a viable option to insure their users. There is actually there might be one left, but of course now that's going to be impacting fees, it's going to be impacting costs.
But like I said, this goes way beyond the ski industries kind of of the one that's really hit because also too you have the rising costs of these passes going along with that. But we're talking, like I said, rafting guides, climbing gyms, ski schools, even yoga studios fall under this. Right.
And without a sensible waiver and insurance kind of platform, this just can't continue.
And it's a $16 billion industry for the state and it's just one of those things they're are bills in the legislature on the table that they have failed to pass. Right.
And so I just, I don't understand the lack of urgency that's gone on, especially in a state where the outdoors and outdoor recreation is tied to kind of our personality and who we see ourselves.
Colin True
00:55:45.790 - 00:55:47.630
You got a pine tree on your license plate.
Producer Dave
00:55:47.950 - 00:56:15.520
That's right. That's right. How is this not taken with much more urgency and priority?
And like I said, I not the one to necessarily want to speak up for the insurance industry, but, but this lacks common sense.
And so I would like to just call out to those that live here to speak to your representative, make it known that this is unacceptable, frankly, to create this lack of confidence or certainty in this type of sector. And it's just so easily fixable not.
Colin True
00:56:15.520 - 00:56:27.660
To throw shade at any sort of deep red southeastern states. But if you laid out the scenario and say where is this happening? Oregon would have been in the bottom five like 45 to 50 before I got to them. Right.
And that's crazy.
Eoin Comerford
00:56:27.740 - 00:56:37.100
No, but, but I think what it is is it's, it's kind of a little bit of consumer protectionism maybe run amok is is what this is What's. So it doesn't shock me that this is a.
Producer Dave
00:56:37.340 - 00:56:43.180
It is a fair. It is a fair. It is a fair concern. The difference between accident and negligence.
Eoin Comerford
00:56:43.340 - 00:56:43.900
Exactly.
Producer Dave
00:56:43.980 - 00:57:16.770
And to be able to find out clearly. Absolutely.
But that's what we're talking about here is that, you know, industry can't go and think that they can have everything, you know, negligence included and consumer protection can't be so tight to that, that we can't, you know, that somehow stupidity should be covered in terms of negligence. That's just not the case. But yeah, I just, again, this is such an unforced error for our state, for our reputation and for our economy.
It's just like, come on, guys, get it together. That's all I got.
Colin True
00:57:16.850 - 00:57:18.130
Pretty heavy parting shot.
Producer Dave
00:57:18.130 - 00:57:29.520
Yeah. Right. Well, thanks again to Tyler for bringing it up as a viable topic. It's certainly. It's around here.
People are talking about it and I think he was right to say, you know what, we should get that out there.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:30.240 - 00:57:30.880
Right on.
Colin True
00:57:30.880 - 00:58:00.970
All right, guys. Well, that's the show today, everybody. We want your emails. Send them to myrockflightmail.com, be like Tyler Noonan. You two can send.
Appear on the show maybe. Right. The Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight llc. Today's episode produced by producer Dave with art direction provided by Sarah Genser.
Concert for Owen Comerd. I'm Colin True. Thank you for listening. And back to take us out. It's for the second to last time in 2025.
It's Chris Demaicz with the rock fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:58:01.050 - 00:59:01.790
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Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth, slays sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big fights about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock flag back fly Rock Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
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