Minnesota Protest Questions, Poop Problems & A Netflix Climb
- colin7931
- 28 minutes ago
- 49 min read
In the latest episode of Gear Abby, host Shawnté Salabert and producer Colin True cover an unusually wide emotional elevation range from grief, rage, and civic responsibility to full-tilt poop chaos and climber beef. It’s an episode that proves Gear Abby can hold space for both the heavy stuff and the deeply awkward realities of spending time outdoors.
What follows is a conversation about who gets to feel safe outside, what we owe each other on trail, and why sometimes the most Leave No Trace thing you can do is… keep walking.
Opening Mailbag: When the Outdoors Is Political
The episode opens with a powerful listener email from a self-described “middle-aged paddler, hiker, and hunter who gives a shit,” grappling with the intersection of outdoor culture and real-world injustice. The listener reflects on violence and ICE activity in Minnesota, the Boundary Waters fight over mining, and the growing discomfort around brands being told to “keep politics out of the outdoors.”
Shawnté and Colin are joined by Minnesotan Lloyd Vogel, founder of Garage Grown Gear, who speaks candidly about why staying silent is not a neutral act especially for outdoor businesses with platforms and reach. Lloyd shares why Garage Grown Gear chose to speak up publicly, how mutual aid actually works on the ground in Minneapolis, and what meaningful allyship can look like for people who don’t live in Minnesota.
The through-line is clear: public lands, access, and safety have always been political and caring about the outdoors means caring about the people in them.
Key takeaway: If one group doesn’t feel safe outside, none of us are actually free out there.
Question 1: Trailside Poop Emergencies & Awkward Etiquette
Just when the emotional intensity hits its peak, Gear Abby does what Gear Abby does best: pivots hard into poop.
A listener writes in asking about trail etiquette when encountering hikers mid-emergency in places where getting off trail isn’t possible. What do you do? Make noise? Be silent? Acknowledge the situation?
Shawnté’s answer is mercifully simple: pretend you saw nothing and keep moving. She shares personal horror stories (including Mount Whitney and a bout of food poisoning) and walks listeners through best-practice survival strategies when nature calls at the absolute worst time.
Advice includes:
Think like an animal
Use human shields if available
Create visual barriers with jackets or tarps
Prioritize speed, discretion, and cleanup
Above all: don’t shame someone having a crisis
Key takeaway: Poop emergencies happen. Compassion > commentary.
Question 2: The Alex Honnold Taipei Stunt Debate
Next up: climber discourse.
A listener asks what Shawnté thinks of Alex Honnold’s highly publicized skyscraper climb a question that sparked an actual argument in their home. Shawnté doesn’t mince words, calling the spectacle tacky, hollow, and more Roman Coliseum than meaningful athletic achievement.
Colin largely agrees, adding context from outside the outdoor bubble: for mainstream audiences, the stunt played like an Evil Knievel moment: impressive, yes, but disconnected from the deeper ethics and risks climbers understand.
They discuss:
Manufactured tension vs. authentic achievement
Parenting, consent, and risk
The difference between awe and exploitation
Whether mid-six figures was anywhere near enough pay
Key takeaway: Not every big outdoor moment needs to be a televised near-death spectacle.
Question 3: Permit Rage & Planning Paralysis
The episode closes with a familiar frustration: permits, reservations, and the feeling that spontaneous outdoor time is disappearing.
A listener from LA asks how anyone is supposed to camp, backpack, or bike tour anymore without planning months ahead and whether there are tools or strategies that make it easier.
Shawnté reframes the issue, reminding listeners that:
Not all outdoor time requires permits
Flexibility, shoulder seasons, and less “Instagrammable” destinations matter
Creativity often beats scarcity mindset
The message isn’t “permits don’t suck,” but rather: don’t let bureaucracy shrink your relationship with the outdoors.
Key takeaway: The outdoors is bigger than the reservation system — even when it doesn’t feel like it.
The Big Picture
This episode of Gear Abby is a reminder that outdoor life is messy, political, emotional, and sometimes deeply inconvenient. It asks listeners to care more, judge less, and remember that the people around us matter just as much as the places we love.
And yes, sometimes it’s also about diarrhea at 14,000 feet.
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Episode Transcript:
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:03.200 - 00:01:18.990
You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find, like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks.
She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.
Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abbey, where we tackle the controversial, weird, weird, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I'm outdoor educator and writer Shawnté Salabert, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all, because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. Well, here's how it works.
If you're just joining us, if you've forgotten, if you've had a temporary lapse in your own sanity like I have, you're going to send questions to Dear Gear Abby, mail dot com. I'm going to answer a couple each week here on the show because that's why it exists.
So as always, joining me today is my partner in Gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and a guy who is the Michael Jordan of podcasting since he just canceled his own podcast, the Rock Fight, when it was at the top of its game. Colin. True.
Colin True
00:01:19.390 - 00:01:29.610
Yeah, I think that's an apt comparison, Shantae. You know, I like to think of myself as just an excellent podcaster. The best there ever was. The greatest of all time, perhaps. Yeah, my shot.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:30.810 - 00:01:33.370
It seems like a lot to put on your own shoulders.
Colin True
00:01:33.530 - 00:01:38.010
It is. It's a big burden to carry, but luckily for everybody else, I'm up to the task.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:38.570 - 00:01:42.490
Yeah. Well, how, how is it now that you're semi retired from podcast life?
Colin True
00:01:42.570 - 00:01:43.290
It's quiet.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:43.930 - 00:01:47.450
It's quiet. Do you just sometimes talk into your microphone just because.
Colin True
00:01:47.530 - 00:01:53.850
Let's come in and close the door and like, hey, welcome to the Rock Fight, everybody. No, no, it's nice, it's nice.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:53.850 - 00:01:55.210
Play the Rock Fight theme song for.
Colin True
00:01:55.210 - 00:01:57.450
Your over and over and over again.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:57.450 - 00:02:03.810
Is that you're running. That's all that's on your running mix. It'. Did you ask Chris to make to do many remixes of it?
Colin True
00:02:03.810 - 00:02:07.090
I could now. Hey, we need to repurpose it. We need a new use for it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:08.210 - 00:02:15.130
Oh, man. Well, you know, we have a mailbag. I love a little mailbag.
Colin True
00:02:15.130 - 00:02:17.330
Our whole show is a mailbag. What are you talking about?
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:17.810 - 00:02:20.370
You know, as that came out of my mouth, I was thinking about that.
Colin True
00:02:20.530 - 00:02:21.410
Yes, I'm aware.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:21.810 - 00:02:27.010
We have a non questioning mailbag. We have a statement Gear Abbey statement.
Colin True
00:02:27.010 - 00:02:29.970
Love that. We should get more of those. Please send in just statements, folks. That'd be great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:29.970 - 00:02:40.990
I'll send it only if they're nice, though. Dear Gmail.com, that's right, that's me. It's I.
So we got an email from listener Phil in response to the recent episode where we talked about sleeping quilts.
Colin True
00:02:40.990 - 00:02:42.270
Is this Tacoma Phil?
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:42.910 - 00:02:48.110
I don't know where this Phil is located. I have no. I have no knowledge of that. This is just. This is Phil.
Colin True
00:02:48.190 - 00:02:48.750
Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:49.070 - 00:02:58.350
Who says just listen to the most recent pod. And I had to dig in for a minute. As an engineering nerd, the idea that R value is a random number was a bit annoying to me.
Colin True
00:02:58.970 - 00:03:00.970
It seems probably weren't the only one, Phil.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:01.610 - 00:03:18.650
Right. But Phil also says it seems that that used to be the case, but in 2020 they developed a standardized testing for sleeping pad R value.
And now those numbers are more apples to apples. And then in parentheses, it is called the ASTM standard F3340 18.
Colin True
00:03:18.890 - 00:03:19.930
Yes. Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:20.010 - 00:03:57.430
Not make that up. But you know what? Listener Phil is correct. There is some standardization now with a few, few caveats. Namely not all brand.
All of the big guys are using it. So yeah, okay. But any of those ones you're buying on Amazon or not, they're not going to be adhering to this ASTM standard.
Sorry, Sorry to tell you that. Also there is still large variance between how it actually feels to sleep on pads of the same R value.
That isn't some sort of specific thermostat number that I'm going to lay on here and I'm going to feel exactly this comfortable.
Lloyd Vogel
00:03:57.750 - 00:03:57.930
So.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:58.080 - 00:04:11.800
So that is something to keep in mind is that you should always test like your think about your sleep system as a whole. That's just, you know, Phil, Phil's right. I want to give you that, Phil. We will always give people their due when it is due. So.
Colin True
00:04:11.800 - 00:04:17.080
Yeah, well, I think a lot of this stuff is largely subjective, Right. In terms of how it applies to you. Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:17.080 - 00:04:19.120
Because even like how it applies to me personally.
Colin True
00:04:19.200 - 00:04:34.620
Well, like when I was at Polar Tech and we're making fabric and there's all these ASTM standard and tests and things like that, and the different way you measure the insulation value and the breathability and it's like, listen. But then you talk about the engine, you're wrapping it around and how is that person going to react to it? Right? So it's.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:34.700 - 00:04:36.860
Wait, is that some sort of insider technical.
Colin True
00:04:37.500 - 00:04:38.700
You are the engine, right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:38.700 - 00:04:39.420
I am the engine.
Colin True
00:04:39.420 - 00:04:45.660
You're the one producing heat. And as you have said many times in this podcast, prolific sweater, Shantay, it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:45.660 - 00:04:46.940
Comes with a lot of heat, baby.
Colin True
00:04:47.020 - 00:04:58.450
Right. Different than, you know, the person who maybe doesn't sweat so much and runs a little cooler.
So like, yeah, you can say, you can standardize it, but it's still going to come down to trying a bunch of shit out and seeing which one you like best at the end of the day.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:59.160 - 00:05:08.200
That's my general philosophy on life. Just try a bunch of out and see what you like best. All right, Colin, what do you have for us today? Let's kick things off.
Colin True
00:05:08.520 - 00:05:11.400
All right, we're going heavy to begin with today, Shantay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:11.480 - 00:05:12.760
All right, I'm into it. Let's do it.
Colin True
00:05:12.760 - 00:05:36.070
Okay, here we go. Dear Gear Abby, I'm having a hard time right now figuring out what to do.
I keep watching everything that's happened in Minnesota with ice and it's so awful. I know this isn't really a outdoor question, but hear me out.
I've seen outdoor brands post about everything happening and there's always people in the comments saying things like, oh, keep politics out of the outdoors. The tone was mine. I just inserted that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:36.070 - 00:05:37.230
But it's the correct tone.
Colin True
00:05:37.470 - 00:05:56.910
Thank you. And I'm embarrassed to say that I used to feel that way too.
But I mean, look at how this administration pushed to open the area around the boundary waters, also Minnesota to mining. That was the first place I ever got to canoes. So this feels personal in a way.
But also, people are part of the outdoors and no one should feel unsafe outside.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:57.310 - 00:05:57.870
Amen.
Colin True
00:05:58.520 - 00:06:16.680
Agreed.
Anyways, what can any of us, people who love the outdoors and who want all people to feel safe being outdoors, which isn't happening now, to do, first, support people in Minnesota and second, be more active stakeholders and making things better in general. Signed, a middle aged paddler and hiker and hunter. Who gives a shit?
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:17.480 - 00:06:21.720
Wow, that is one of the best emails we've ever gotten.
Colin True
00:06:22.280 - 00:06:25.880
You want to just go right to what's in my pack and just blow right by this or.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:26.280 - 00:06:59.930
Yeah, no, we don't. Yeah, no, this. Good question. No, middle. Middle aged. I guess I'm just going to call you middle aged middle aged paddler. Thank.
Thank you so much for emailing.
This is a really thoughtful question and I too have absolutely heard and seen that whole like, keep politics out of the outdoors, I come here to relax, blah, blah, blah, that whole line a thousand times and I'm always surprised that people don't realize. First of all, politics is why these places where you paddle and hike and hunt and fish and climb, et cetera, et cetera, Every facet of life.
This is why things exist. Roads, like we could go.
Colin True
00:06:59.930 - 00:07:03.570
Politics, out of the outdoors. Until there's a government shutdown, they can't fund where I want to go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:03.650 - 00:07:29.570
Right, exactly. Why is it understaffed? Why is there so much garbage? Yeah, politics, okay. I think it's actually with these people, it's just about discomfort.
Because their experience of the world, and specifically the outdoors, has so far been good and easy and comfy. How dare other people interrupt that, Try to make them feel uncomfortable. Right?
So to that I say, like, first of all, why wouldn't you want other people to feel the same freedoms that you do? Right? That's. That's what I want.
Colin True
00:07:29.650 - 00:07:33.330
My freedom. And you cannot have any of my freedom.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:33.330 - 00:08:37.840
You can't have it. No, I mean, there's. There's a great song. And of course, me being a music nerd, I'm going to bring it to music that kind of sums this up.
It's called none of Us are Free. It was recorded by Ray Charles first, later by Solomon Burke. Even Leonard Skynyrd covered it. I'm just gonna.
I'm gonna read the first, like, a verse and a chorus. Publisher, please don't sue me. So it goes like this.
Well, there are people in the darkness and they just can't see the light and if we don't say it's wrong then that says it's right we gotta feel for each other Let our brothers know we're here Gotta send, Get the message and send it out loud and clear that none of us are free none of us are free none of us are free if one of us is chained all right, so. Right. Ruminate on that. Go. Listen, Solomon Burke's version is gorgeous.
Anyway, before I get too nerdy about the history of protest music, which I would love to do, we've actually got somebody we've called in who is both deeply outdoors and in Minnesota who can speak to this on a different level. And that is friend of the pod all around, excellent human Lloyd Vogel, the CEO and founder of Garage Grown Gear, and we're so happy to have you.
Thanks for joining us, Lloyd. I'm sorry. It's for this.
Lloyd Vogel
00:08:38.319 - 00:09:29.380
Hey, thanks for. Thanks for having me. And, you know, it is. That was an incredible email, especially from someone who used to.
I mean, we are allowed to change as humans, and I think it is. It is even more profound when people have radically change their. Their belief system over time.
And I think it is, it's important to acknowledge both what one has believed in the past and allow oneself to, to be able to grow and have the humility to be able to admit that one was, was wrong and have one's beliefs be able to change.
Because man, I, I hope that there are beliefs changing right now because we, we need more middle aged paddlers to, to have an epiphany that, you know, black and brown lives in fact do matter and that they are an important part of our communities and deserve to be able to experience the outdoors in, in ways that make them feel safe and affirmed.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:30.020 - 00:09:31.700
Hell yeah. Lloyd, we love you.
Colin True
00:09:32.180 - 00:09:33.660
Lloyd is coming in off the top rope.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:33.660 - 00:09:36.220
That's right. Okay. Lloyd is actually a co host now.
Colin True
00:09:36.220 - 00:09:36.940
Sorry Colin.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:36.940 - 00:09:37.300
Bye.
Colin True
00:09:37.380 - 00:09:38.020
I'm out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:39.860 - 00:10:09.360
But yeah, well, so before we get to the heart of middle aged paddler person's question, you actually on the Garage Grown Gear Instagram I saw the other day and I think on LinkedIn as well, but you posted about the ICE raids and the killings and protests on the Garage Grown Gear Instagra Instagram and, and you know, and then you posted. It was mostly about the resources, right, for people, if people wanted to help.
So I guess before we get into middle ages question, why did you decide as a company, you know, Garage Grown is like a deep part of the outdoor world. Like why did you decide to put yourself out there on social like that?
Lloyd Vogel
00:10:09.920 - 00:12:47.130
Honestly, it just like felt like it would be disingenuous and cowardice not to. You know, I think about the ways in which we as outdoor leaders can, can set a precedent and set a tone.
And you know, I think about what is, what is the largest ability for me as a person in Garage growing as a company to be able to make change and that is by utilizing our reach. You know, we have, we have a newsletter, we have an Instagram, we have a platform that people care about.
So if we can leverage that to be able to support mutual aid here in Minneapolis, organizations that are on the ground helping people with the resources that they need, both food, rent, legal services, like, that's, that's what we, we want to be able to do.
And that's, and that's, that's for our community, that's for our staff to let them know that, you know, we're not just, we're not just saying one thing and doing another, that we're, that we're really l. Our values.
And you know, I think especially being based in, in Minneapolis to, to not do this would be not showing up for for people that we love and care about. And that's just like, is not acceptable for us to be able to do as a business.
And I think it is a rare, I mean, as a small business owner, you know, none of us are, are, are, are perfect or, or super well versed or trained in how to be able to handle situations like this. Like, we're all just trying to be able to do our best with it.
And largely, I think it is what allows us to companies and our impact in the world and allows us to be able to sleep at night. And I would not feel comfortable not saying something.
And so even if that means that, you know, we have a bunch of unhinged emails that say to be able to keep politics out of, out of the outdoors or, you know, you lost a customer, you know, it's like, man, the statement that we put out was pretty milquetoast. It was kind of just telling you what time it was. Like, this is, you know, people are getting murdered in Minneapolis.
People are getting illegally detained. Like, it's not subjective, right? That is like objectively actually happening here. And to tell me that it is not. You can't gaslight me.
I'm here, you know, I'm, I've, I've been at the protests.
Like I, I, you know, myself and co workers are, are volunteering on a daily basis to be able to, to be able to, to improve the lives of folks that are happening here. I mean, really just like, keep trying to keep people safe. It's, it's basic human rights. And if that, if that feels political to you, great.
But it doesn't have to.
It also just is, you know, trying to, trying to care for one's neighbors, trying to keep people safe and you know, I think honestly be pretty morally awful to, to not be in Minneapolis and care about these things. I don't understand how someone could not be emotionally moved by the things that you're seeing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:47.370 - 00:12:49.050
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Colin True
00:12:49.450 - 00:13:13.770
Let's jump in real quick. Yeah, we should say that we're recording this on January 29th and this episode will come out a week from today.
And so hopefully by then maybe some things are moving in a positive direction or we don't know what will happen between now and then, but I think all of this totally applies.
I will say the one thing which is follow up I wanted to mention on what you just said though, Lloyd, is that the people you got those emails that you lost a customer today, I think there's a fair chance they were never your customer and they were just Yelling at you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:13.770 - 00:13:14.130
Yep.
Colin True
00:13:14.130 - 00:13:19.010
Or if they were a customer, I think they'll probably come back. They're just being. Looking for a reason to be angry.
Lloyd Vogel
00:13:19.010 - 00:13:19.330
Just.
Colin True
00:13:19.410 - 00:13:22.450
That's my two cents, my impression of how people actually engage on these things.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:22.530 - 00:13:23.290
I think you're right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:13:23.290 - 00:13:23.490
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:23.490 - 00:13:43.350
And I think in general, you know, listen, politics is a loaded word, I get it, blah, blah, blah. But again, your whole life doesn't exist like this. Our, our modern lives don't exist without certain political frameworks to keep us safe.
And when I think about like the very base level of things we should care about, I don't know, other people, the environment we all live in seems pretty like low hanging fruit.
Lloyd Vogel
00:13:43.350 - 00:13:53.470
So you'd think so. I mean, even on, on like a very basic level, like even if you don't care about other people or about humanity or then you're a nihilist.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:53.470 - 00:13:54.990
And why are you listening to this podcast?
Lloyd Vogel
00:13:55.070 - 00:14:32.260
Right.
You know, I think it is something that, like us as a community, the outdoor industry, the outdoor community is like a better place when it is more diverse. And if the most diverse voices in the community don't feel safe leaving their homes, how can we expect you to hit the trailhead?
How can you be expected to be planning a trip when you're planning your route to avoid ice on your way home?
And I think this goes back to all the narratives of why do people of color not necessarily always feel safe hiking long trails in the US and having that be poohed by like, oh, oh, well, trails are. I've never felt unsafe.
Colin True
00:14:32.260 - 00:14:34.620
Well, it's like, yeah, I'd be like.
Lloyd Vogel
00:14:34.620 - 00:14:47.140
Well, have you ever thought about it from someone's perspective that wasn't, you know, white and male and like, you know, it's. I think it's just like such a lazy take to be able to be like, well, I haven't experienced that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:47.140 - 00:14:49.180
It's like, so it doesn't exist, right?
Lloyd Vogel
00:14:49.180 - 00:15:32.350
Be like, okay, is that how you approach everything in life? That if you haven't experienced it, it's not real cool?
Like, what a, what an uncreative perspective on the world and what a, what a privileged, narrow life. Life that you live to not be able to see how broader systems of oppression affect people that are not you?
And it just, yeah, it just, it lacks some fundamental humanity that I think there's no way that one looks back in 20 or 30 years and doesn't clearly see who is in the right and who is on the wrong in elements like this.
I mean, it's, it, it doesn't Even require a lot of creativity to paint the narrative of how this time frame in US History is going to be reflected upon.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:33.220 - 00:16:02.020
Right. Yeah, we have some blueprints for it, like within the zone country's history and beyond, you know, so I feel like, hey, people learn from history.
But yeah, also you losers. That's all. But. All right, well, let's, let's get to our this great letter, this email.
So Lloyd, when you think about this, this person is asking specifically like a, what can outdoor people do to help? And then in general, like, you know, basically what can we do to be more active in protecting the things we care about?
Like, what are your perspectives on this?
Lloyd Vogel
00:16:02.970 - 00:17:57.620
Yeah, I mean, I think a big thing is, you know, and we've gotten this a lot too, is how do people from out of state be able to support what's happening in Minnesota.
There are a, there's a couple databases of, of, of nonprofits that one can contribute to from as much as like national wide orgs that are supporting work in Minnesota to, to mutual aid organizations that are on the ground. There's people that are scared to be able to go to work right now.
And so there's folks that are behind on rent that, that don't have access to food that they need. And so there's very granular ways to be able to get involved.
And if you all are willing to share some links, you know, I can provide those over to you. But I think, you know, the finances of it are huge.
I think being able to right one's politicians, you know, Minnesota people here in Minneapolis, like there isn't a lot of division amongst people in Minneapolis about what's going on. But I think that there is uncertainty on a national narrative.
And so even if you don't live in Minnesota, you know, writing letters to politicians, letting them know what you think about what's happening in Minneapolis across the nation with ICE involvement, that's really important and really impactful.
And I think, you know, lastly, I think it's like engaging on places like social media, places like Reddit, it's supporting businesses and letting them know that you approve of this messaging that's happening because that empowers more businesses to be able to take a stance.
And in the capitalist society that we belong in, you know, the power of the, the individual is, is sometimes less than the, you know, than the power of the, of the, certainly the big corporate entities, but also of, of smaller businesses. So I think it's just like whatever platforms that you have to be able to amplify the the, the, the perspectives and humanity that you can share.
Please do. So, you know, like, that for me was LinkedIn, you know, weird spot to be able.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:57.620 - 00:17:58.580
You are the king of LinkedIn.
Lloyd Vogel
00:17:58.580 - 00:18:21.460
Thumbs up. Thank you. True. But like, that was a spot where, like I was like, well, that's where, that's where I show up. How do I be able to talk about that?
You know, maybe that's at a, at a school board meeting. Maybe that's, you know, at your local knitting club. But just like letting, letting people know what's on your mind and what's happening.
Sharing the stories that, that, that, that you're running into so that people aren't just putting their blinders up and pretending like it's not happening.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:22.020 - 00:18:22.340
Right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:18:22.340 - 00:18:24.220
So, yeah, those would be my thoughts.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:24.300 - 00:19:31.220
No, that's great. I mean, I think in general, anyone who's listening, be a more active participant in your life.
Like, what are the things that matter to you in your community? What are the things.
If you're a big angler, if you're a hiker, if you're a climber, whatever, what are the places you're going to think about it for a second and whoa, somebody had to work to get those places to be protected so you could do these things. And a lot of these places, like I think about the pct, that is not a fully protected corridor.
So the pcta, the PCT association is constantly working to try to basically secure, secure easements and things like that. But that's. Easements are temporary. Right. Someone else could buy that land and be like, you can't come here.
And then a whole part of the trail is gone. So I think in general, people don't realize like, how much effort has to go in behind the scenes.
Whether it's politicians, non profits and individuals asking like, no, no, I want you to protect us or I want you to take care of this. And so figuring out where you can plug in, whether it is, you know, giving to a moment like this.
And, and Lloyd, by the way, I think you'd mentioned maybe on your, on the garage Instagram, like, is it standwith Minnesota.org what is that? Is kind of collaborate. I think there's a website, right. That has a lot of different mutual aid.
Lloyd Vogel
00:19:31.220 - 00:19:48.420
Yeah. Stan with Minnesota is the, that has like dozens of links for. Yeah. Rent, mutual aid, food support.
I mean, even as granular as, as pet support, we're having people who are, who are being detained and deported, who's like, pets are just not cared for.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:48.500 - 00:19:48.900
Right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:19:49.060 - 00:20:55.980
Because I mean, that's the case with, you know, parents who are getting deported and trying to figure out how to be able to support their children. I mean this idea and this narrative that it is just like criminals that are being detained is, is just, it's just ludicrous.
I mean, there's not enough energy being put into making this be a, you know, for everyone who said, like, well, we stand with law enforcement, like this is indiscriminate, right. Detaining and deporting of people of color.
I have friends who are, you know, born in the US that are, that are South Korean who are carrying around passports because they're scared that they're, you know, they're, their U.S. citizenship is going to be, is going to be questioned by someone from ice and I mean it's just unlawful things that are happening across the board. And Shantae, to what you said, like, you know, these are things that, you know, public lands.
We can take all these things for granted and then you can be in a place like Minneapolis right now and just see one's, one's rights and, and laws and if they're not being followed and there's very little recourse, like what are you, what are you supposed to do? So this idea that like this can't happen is just like it can't happen. It is, it is currently happening.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:56.060 - 00:20:56.460
Right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:20:56.460 - 00:21:49.500
And we saw that with the, with the, with the execution of Alex Preddy. I mean, you know, we shop at the same bike shop.
You know, there's a, there's a bike ride that will have happened, you know, this past weekend when this, when this episode airs. But like, you know, this is not if, if you know, he's a, he was a 37 year old white man who lived in Minneapolis as an ICU nurse.
This isn't some paid agitator. This isn't some, you know, some like, like crazy woke progressive, leftist, anarchist.
This is some dude with a stable job, good income who backpacks, who bikes.
This is someone who looks like, I mean, I said this on a LinkedIn post, but this looks like someone who could be the marketing Persona for anyone in the outdoor industry. Yeah, right. If, if it takes the murder of someone who looks like you to get you involved, that kind of sucks.
But like you, you'd like it, you know, just to be able to see a whole bunch of brown and black people get deported and that be enough to be able to, to get you right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:49.500 - 00:21:51.260
That should have been enough for people to care.
Lloyd Vogel
00:21:51.260 - 00:22:26.430
Yeah, but if that's what it takes, like, you know, like to some extent Alex Preddy is like the every man of the outdoor industry. And, like, this is not something that just happens in a bubble.
This can happen to someone who's just checking to see if someone is okay after they got shoved and then 30 seconds later is shot 10 times like this. I. I imagine that this happened so quickly for him that he didn't even know what was happening until he's lying on the ground dead. And that's. That's.
That's a. A tragedy that cannot really be. Yeah, it's. It's hard to conceptualize. Sorry. A little emotional.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:27.230 - 00:23:34.630
No. As you should be, like, weird if you weren't emotional. Okay. You know, I think a lot of us are emotional, and I just. I really thank you.
I'm going to thank the listeners who. Who stuck with us, because I know this was an unusual question, but it shouldn't be, like, we should all be asking these questions.
And yes, as I quote, Outdoor People, we should be asking these questions, and we should be thinking a bit more deeply about our. Our place. Our place in the greater whole and how we can improve things.
So, Lloyd, I really appreciate you spending this time with us and coming on, and. Yeah, just like Colin said, I'm going to hope that things are better in a week's time, but I think we know that this is.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. And so, people, everyone listening, find out where you can dig in. It's all overwhelming, but find one place you can dig in and do it. That's my.
That's my advice. By the way, the website Lloyd mentioned is standwithminnesota.com I don't think we ever got a full URL. URL There, so I wanted to give that to y'. All.
And, Colin, by the way, I don't want to alarm you, but I think Lloyd just stole the Righteous Fish Shaking title from you today. Although I think he absolutely deserves it for such a worthy topic. So I. I hope you're okay with that.
Colin True
00:23:34.950 - 00:23:39.270
Shantae has the Goat podcast for those we established earlier in the episode. You know, game recognizes.
Lloyd Vogel
00:23:39.270 - 00:23:39.510
Game.
Colin True
00:23:41.910 - 00:23:49.160
Recognizes game. Lloyd definitely took the title today, and I endorsed Lloyd and his stance. And Frank Lloyd, he deserves it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:49.400 - 00:23:50.440
He does.
Colin True
00:23:50.440 - 00:23:58.520
He's living what we are mostly reacting in horror to these days. So I'm happy to have Lloyd come on the pod with us and shake his fist a little bit, you know?
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:58.680 - 00:24:12.120
I know. Well, we have to have Lloyd back on for something, you know, maybe not dealing with our constitutional rights.
I feel like Lloyd is a longtime friend of the Rock fight The podcast that Colin jettisoned at the top of its game.
Colin True
00:24:12.280 - 00:24:12.760
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:13.400 - 00:24:22.660
And we love Garage Grown Gear. You've heard us do ad reads for Garage Grown Gear. I have a lot of Garage Grown Gear stuff in my house. Anyway, Lloyd, come back sometime. We love you.
Colin True
00:24:22.660 - 00:24:25.300
Yeah, hopefully we'll do more ads for Garage Grown Gear.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:25.380 - 00:24:27.620
Lloyd, while you're listening.
Colin True
00:24:27.620 - 00:24:30.980
While you're listening, I'll be reaching out soon.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:32.660 - 00:24:40.140
All right, well, I feel like, you know, we, we kind of kicked things off with a pretty heavy topic. Maybe, maybe we can lighten things up. What do you have next?
Colin True
00:24:40.140 - 00:24:48.900
Listen, this next one is definitely is the cure that you're looking for and is very much on brand for gear Abby. Welcome back. Poop Corner has returned.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:49.060 - 00:24:51.440
Poop. Cor, poop. We need like a little jingle.
Colin True
00:24:51.440 - 00:24:55.680
A little jingle, little stinger. We get our executive producer David Garsad on that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:55.840 - 00:24:56.480
That's right.
Colin True
00:24:56.880 - 00:25:20.570
All right, this email goes. Dear Gear Abby, you want poop questions? I have one for you.
I have on several occasions come across thru hikers who are clearly having an emergency close to the trail in an area where they couldn't get off the trail and do a proper lnt. That's leave no trace to you folks. Poop. Okay, I do need to pause several. Was this person cursed?
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:20.970 - 00:25:27.210
It does sound like a curse, doesn't it? Even I have never. I've encountered. Well, we'll get into this. But yeah, bless.
Colin True
00:25:27.210 - 00:25:30.170
I just said I think like, you know, they're walking around like oh my God again.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:32.010 - 00:25:36.170
Was it all in one day like I was at the same person. I kind of have some follow up questions.
Colin True
00:25:36.250 - 00:26:14.190
Twice in one day. Okay, they go on. What should the general etiquette be for those of us hiking past them? Pretend like they aren't there.
Talk loudly to cover up the noise. Be quiet like we aren't there. It is an awkward situation. It is always an awkward situation.
I feel so bad for these people who are experiencing an emergency. Also, what should I do if I'm ever in that emergency situation? What is the best practice? Like on the Whitney Switchbacks where there is no cover?
You're now got PTSD with a kick in Prashante where there's no cover and no way to get off the trail. If you gotta go, you gotta go. Signed politely trying to navigate poo mergencies.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:16.510 - 00:26:21.370
Well, we did in fact just do a very successful 180 so good job. Emergencies.
Colin True
00:26:21.370 - 00:26:37.930
I feel like have you seen that trend on like either on TikTok or Instagram reels where there's like a car Accident and someone drives by and rolls out in the window is like, hey, you can't park there. It kills me every time. It's such a dick move. But it's really funny. I feel like that's the response here. You can't do that here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:38.170 - 00:26:39.690
You can't park your poo here.
Colin True
00:26:39.690 - 00:26:40.490
Yeah, exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:40.730 - 00:26:51.050
Oh, man. Well, I have to say also, by the way, I appreciate that sign off very much. That is very creative. This is the level all of you should attain.
You know, strive to attain at the very least. You're right again.
Colin True
00:26:51.290 - 00:26:53.690
But no, the merging of words is encouraged.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:53.850 - 00:27:56.620
Oh, I love a portmanteau. I love a poo manto. Don't get me started. But yeah, listen, you're correct. I do love a good poo question always.
Although I can't imagine there's all that many left out there. But I know y' all are gonna prove me wrong. So. Dear cure happy gmail.com. so, all right, let's get into this. You already know college and stake.
So as Colin alluded to, this did give me a tiny bit of ptsd. It takes me back to an experience I had while hiking Mount Whitney. But no, it is not my one greatest outdoor shame or whatever that episode was.
That question that person asked me about my. My poos. So here's the story. My.
My friends and I had just reached trail crest, which is a pass that's about two miles from the summit on Mount Whitney. You're up there at, like, they're almost 14,000ft at this point. And as we moved into the next stretch of trail, it's completely exposed.
It's all just granite blocks. And my friend, who is normally a deeply private person, announced that they had to go to the bathroom.
And they just dropped trowel right there next to the tr.
Colin True
00:27:56.620 - 00:27:57.180
Wow.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:57.420 - 00:28:04.740
Yeah. Now, later on, in this person's defense, they act. We had to take them to the emergency room because they had pulmonary edema.
Colin True
00:28:04.740 - 00:28:05.420
No excuse.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:05.740 - 00:28:06.220
Yeah.
Colin True
00:28:06.380 - 00:28:12.060
No brain does not mean you could just poop wherever you want.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:12.140 - 00:28:14.920
I don't think it was a poop. I think it was a pee of if I'm remembering right.
Colin True
00:28:15.240 - 00:28:15.800
Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:15.880 - 00:28:49.860
I suspect cerebral edema. I'm like. I feel like it was more that. But whatever. Your lungs were bleeding and stuff. I guess it was pulmonary too.
But anyway, the three of us that were not doing our business, right next to the trail, we just looked away and honestly, poop. What was it? Poop emergencies. The short answer here is that that's what you should do, too. Just keep on walking. My Friend. Okay.
You don't need to engage with anyone who is pooping within earshot or even I guess, ey shot, eye shot. Just sight. And I'm guess a thousand times over. They don't want to have to do anything with you either.
Colin True
00:28:49.860 - 00:28:51.060
Like they would have seriously.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:51.620 - 00:30:08.060
Just. You never saw it. It never existed. And I know this from personal experience. We're going to.
We're going to dig up some more of my ptsd, no pun intended, because I once got food poisoning during a through hike. I waited it out in town for about 48 hours and then I headed back to the trail thinking everything was fine.
And less than five minutes up from the trailhead, my guts were on fire. Y' all know that feeling. If you've been there, you've been there. And the trail was located next to a main road.
There were no trees until you got maybe like a mile up the trail. So it was just all low brush and scrub. And I just yelled at my hiking buddy. I'm like, turn away.
I crouched down behind the biggest bush with the best angle to kind of like hide me from people, and I just did my thing. It was such an awful feeling. I'm pretty sure I cried while I was doing it. Not my best moment. So, yeah, so listen, I have been that person.
So what should you do? Do if it. If you have a poo emergency, what should you do? First of all, here's my. My general advice is just think like an animal. Okay?
Move as quickly as you can away from the trail. Find something, anything that you can, and just get as small as you can behind it. I highly recommend the squeeze and run method.
So start doing your butt Kegels now. Yeah. Colin is making a face like, well, yes, of course.
Colin True
00:30:08.540 - 00:30:14.210
I mean, you know, a strong pelvic floor is also advantageous. It's like, it's a win win here. It's like you're accomplishing two things. So.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:14.210 - 00:30:14.890
Yes, true.
Colin True
00:30:14.970 - 00:30:16.810
I endorse Kegels in all forms.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:17.290 - 00:30:21.410
All Kegels. You can just try with any orifice. Okay. I. I'm not. I don't want to limit anyone.
Colin True
00:30:21.410 - 00:30:23.930
Then you're ready for the sex question. We got a few episodes back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:24.170 - 00:31:10.300
Oh, God. True, true. And who knows which one we'll get next?
But yeah, so if you need to, okay, like, you're running up the hill, you're squeezing, you're waiting. You can ask. If you've got somebody with you, ask them to be a human shield and just stand between you and the trail. Maybe hold up a tarp.
Or a rain jacket or something. Or you could even try doing that for yourself. Hold something in front of you like a magic curtain. You are the great wizard of Oz.
I'm definitely not pooping back there.
I mean, you are essentially doing the outdoorsy equivalent of those people who pull over on the side of the road and just, like, pee right next to their car, trying to hide behind their door. So, you know, if. If you're feeling especially exposed, you got to keep lookout. Okay? You just.
If you spot anybody, just yell out something like, I have diarrhea. Okay, no, no one's going to come.
Colin True
00:31:10.300 - 00:31:11.420
Put that on a T shirt.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:12.300 - 00:31:19.380
That's going to be the first item in the Gear Abby merch line. I know we've talked about other options, but it might be that I listen.
Colin True
00:31:19.380 - 00:31:21.060
To Gear Abby, and I have diarrhea.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:21.060 - 00:31:25.900
And I have diarrhea. Maybe we'll get. You know what? Maybe we can get a modium to sponsor us.
Colin True
00:31:25.980 - 00:31:26.940
That's a great idea.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:26.940 - 00:31:41.980
Actually, we need to go into big pharma now. Oh, man. All right, so if. If it happens, just do your business. Clean up as quickly as you can. Like, just. This is where wipes come in handy.
Just get one of those. What are the. The code brown kits from?
Colin True
00:31:42.540 - 00:31:43.420
Butt napkins.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:43.420 - 00:31:44.500
From Butt napkins.
Colin True
00:31:44.500 - 00:31:46.960
Y. Invented exactly for this scenario.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:46.960 - 00:32:01.280
It sounds like, seriously, do a proper burial. Unless you're somewhere like Mount Whitney where you're not supposed to bury it. You got to pack it out.
In that case, hopefully you were able to get your wag back out in time. If not, you're gonna have to find a stick or a rock and just scrape it in there.
Colin True
00:32:01.280 - 00:32:08.120
Okay, this sounds like the case where, you know, the bidet is for the trail and less for you. You know, like, just sort of like.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:08.120 - 00:32:08.640
Yeah, right.
Colin True
00:32:08.640 - 00:32:13.510
There's not a lot to bury or, you know, or pick up, unfortunately.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:13.510 - 00:32:15.550
Try to. Try to leave. Leave no trace. I can.
Colin True
00:32:15.550 - 00:32:16.110
Do your best.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:16.430 - 00:32:22.750
Do your best. That's all. Just do us all a solid. And that is not a pun that I intended, but just deal with your solids.
Colin True
00:32:22.750 - 00:32:24.910
Couldn't do yourself a solid, so do us one, please.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:24.990 - 00:32:51.630
That's right. All the solids need to be dealt with on this trail. But listen, we've talked about this before.
I think when we were answering that really fantastic sharts question from a few months ago. In the end, like you said, poop emergency or poop emergencies. Multiple, because you apparently experienced multiple. When you gotta go, you gotta go.
Shit quite literally happens. So don't be embarrassed. Just go in a. You Know, maybe a fugue state and pretend you're a marmot or something.
Just doing what's natural and you'll get through it.
Colin True
00:32:52.110 - 00:32:57.150
Yeah, I just have to come back to the. I have several. On several occasions, come through this. You know, like, look, I.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:57.310 - 00:32:58.270
Is that haunting you?
Colin True
00:32:58.350 - 00:33:12.190
It is a little. Like. I mean, I really do feel like poor poop emergency here is having a tough go of it on the hiking trail, because it's. I get it.
You know, hey, listen, like, it happened to you. You're like, oh, my God, it's happening now. If it's somebody who. If you can deduce in the moment that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:12.190 - 00:33:13.850
No, I'm sor. You did what?
Colin True
00:33:13.850 - 00:33:16.490
If you can do a deuce.
Lloyd Vogel
00:33:16.650 - 00:33:17.210
If you can.
Colin True
00:33:17.210 - 00:33:28.050
If you can deduce in the moment that they're not having an emergency and they're just too close, then I think you, you know, game on. Embarrass the hell out of them. Like, hey, are you pooping over there? You know, like, just, like, call them out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:28.050 - 00:33:29.250
Especially if they're your friends. Yeah.
Colin True
00:33:29.250 - 00:33:30.490
Oh. Especially if they're always.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:30.490 - 00:33:31.890
Embarrass your friends on trail.
Colin True
00:33:31.890 - 00:33:33.290
That's error. Anywhere.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:35.290 - 00:33:45.390
I feel. You know what? I feel like I've returned to a state of, like, homeostasis. Like, I am at equilibrium right now because we have had the.
You know, the poop question brought me back to my real sense.
Colin True
00:33:45.390 - 00:33:45.710
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:45.870 - 00:33:46.350
Yeah.
Colin True
00:33:46.590 - 00:33:54.030
The problems of the world that. That Lloyd came on to talk about still exist, but it's a little. I feel a little more grounded in our reality now.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:54.350 - 00:34:05.630
Right. Yeah, it's. I feel weirdly Zen. So thank. Thank you, Poop Emergencies, for sending in that very detailed and head scratching question. Appreciate you.
Colin True
00:34:05.630 - 00:34:10.030
So the next time our president's in the news, you're just going to, like, you know, go on Reddit for poop stories? Because that'll bring you back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:10.030 - 00:34:15.129
Just to make myself better. I mean, they're both shitt, aren't they?
Lloyd Vogel
00:34:15.689 - 00:34:16.169
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:16.649 - 00:34:24.489
All right, so enough. Enough shit talk for today. Maybe we can. Maybe we'll have something else nice to discuss. Colin, what do you got?
Colin True
00:34:24.569 - 00:34:33.609
I think we're going to move from literal shit talk to just, like, figurative shit talk here, because this is one that I've talked about on another podcast. I'm excited to get your take.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:33.689 - 00:34:35.169
The podcast you canceled.
Colin True
00:34:35.169 - 00:35:08.030
I did. At the top of my game. Dear Gear Abby, I know it might be old news by the time you get to my question, but I have to ask. Ask. I'm a climber.
I think you're a climber. She Is what do you. What did you think of Alex Honnold's Taipei stunt? I have strong feelings.
Like so strong that my husband and I got into a fight about it. Lol. Thanks. Is it Jana? Jaina. Jana. Or maybe you can use. Oh. Or maybe you can use. Ha. Not. Yeah, it's all right. Good job, Jaina.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:08.030 - 00:35:08.550
Ha Not.
Lloyd Vogel
00:35:08.870 - 00:35:09.460
Ha not.
Colin True
00:35:10.410 - 00:35:11.890
I guess we know now where Jayna stands.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:11.890 - 00:35:33.450
We know where Jana. Jana stands. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. That is good. Now I'm.
I'm laughing not just at your sign off and your question, but because I know in my heart that Colin's actually going to get an opportunity here to reclaim his number one fish shaker title in just a few minutes. Hope you enjoyed your short lived but very powerful rain, Lloyd.
Colin True
00:35:33.450 - 00:35:34.170
Very powerful.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:34.410 - 00:35:48.430
You know, so here's the thing. I. I'm kind of dying. Just much like the last email where I wanted to know the details, how they just continually have these run ins.
I am dying to know the entire content of this argument. Like, I just want to know. I want to spill the tea.
Colin True
00:35:48.430 - 00:35:48.870
Folks.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:49.350 - 00:35:54.550
Like, send me another email with that if you want. We won't read it. Maybe we will. But are you.
Colin True
00:35:55.030 - 00:36:01.470
I love when I see people arguing. Like, you know, I just get real quiet because I don't want them to know that I'm paying attention. Like, oh my God, it's happening.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:01.470 - 00:36:03.990
You don't want them to know you saw them talking?
Colin True
00:36:03.990 - 00:36:22.350
Yeah. When my. When my wife and I were first married, her brother and his fiancee who actually lived with us for a while.
And anytime like we would argue, my wife and I, they would peel off and go to another room and anytime they would start, we would just. We would kind of just shrink back and go like, shh. Don't, don't, like, don't remind them that we're still here. I want to see what happens. Oh my God.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:22.350 - 00:36:29.830
We're all, you know what? Humans. This is one of our little. Our little things I think a lot of us have. This is why people watch reality tv.
Colin True
00:36:29.830 - 00:36:31.870
I think you're right, actually. Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:32.110 - 00:36:33.750
I think it scratches that itch and.
Colin True
00:36:33.750 - 00:36:36.270
Which is apt because this was reality TV that we're talking about.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:36.270 - 00:36:56.620
Yes, it was. Well, so let me here. Okay. I'm a climber. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Colin said. Yes, I enjoy climbing.
I am impressed that there are humans who are both supernaturally strong in their finger parts. All their parts. And who are supernaturally strong in their nervous system.
Because my ass gets dizzy whenever I pull out one of those little step ladders to get something off the top shelf at home. And I.
Colin True
00:36:56.620 - 00:36:57.740
Good for your climbing career.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:58.060 - 00:38:02.060
I know that. Yeah, neither was my freaking arthritis. So I. I like watching people do incredible things that stretch the bounds of what we think is possible.
But I do not like televised spectacles. It. It just does not do it for me. Like, listen, is Alex Honnold strong? Yes. Does he have an impressive capacity for endurance? Yep.
Is he freakishly calm while doing things that would make most other grown folks cry? You betcha.
Okay, but climbing a building live on Netflix with a bunch of people commenting like, there's Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart at the Olympics. Come on. Is he Evil Knievel here? Like, what was this? Quite. I. Like, honestly, it was a stunt. Like you said in your email, Jana, slash Hanat.
It was a stunt and I could not have cared less. Like, there was no intrinsic value in this to me. And I am not even going to comment on the fact that he's a parent. He has a partner.
Their determination of risk versus reward is theirs alone to make. Just kidding.
Their kids got zero say in it because no matter how much they might have tried to prepare them, they're toddlers who have no concept of mortality.
Lloyd Vogel
00:38:03.170 - 00:38:03.450
Yep.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:03.450 - 00:38:13.890
I actually, I don't know if you read any of the comments, but I did. I saw one that said to be orphaned because daddy chose to scale a skyscraper free solo would be tragic and embarrassing.
Colin True
00:38:14.290 - 00:38:14.770
I agree.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:16.370 - 00:38:47.030
I mean, listen, at the end of the day, he could do whatever the hell he wants. I am not the Alex Honnold police. I. I just think the whole thing felt kind of tacky. I don't know.
Like, do I think there was a huge chance he was gonna pop off that building at some point? No, but the entire Netflix special had an unspoken undercurrent of but will he fall?
And that to me feels like some weird Roman Coliseum death match shit. Like pandering to the worst of humanity's desire to watch train wrecks. See also talking about reality TV just a minute ago.
Colin True
00:38:47.110 - 00:38:47.510
Right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:47.910 - 00:39:17.160
Yeah. I mean, I think. I think for me, that's what put me off the most.
And on that note, actually thinking about this, since we like to give book recs on this, on this pod, I highly recommend Chain Gang All Stars by Nana Kwame Aja Brenya, which is. Takes the concept of this to a new and awful dystopian height. So absolutely recommend that book. But anyway.
All right, Colin, I am going to pass my skyfish steak baton over to you so you can reclaim it. What are your thoughts on this? I'm sure you loved it, right?
Colin True
00:39:17.160 - 00:40:21.860
I was great. Just, you know, 10 out of 10. No, no, no. I mean, of course, like, I agree with you.
I mean, we did the now defunct podcast I used to host called the Rock Fight. We. Did you mention it? My thing on that. Well, my thing on it was like everything you said, but it's. Yeah. Your point about it being tacky?
Yeah, just like the way it was being promoted was gross. I mean, the trailer was oriented around, oh, he could die. And I'm like, yeah, like, you know, with like, Free Solo. The.
The magic of Free Solo was that you knew, like, he's out promoting the film. Like, you know, he lives, but you're watching it and you're still like, oh, my God, is he gonna make it? Right?
And it just, it was completely the opposite of that. Now I've sort of come around on it and from a different way.
Not personally, in terms of my, like, did I would I want to see more of this or did I think it was great? No, what I've come around on this was not for the outdoor community, because. And the reason I've kind of come, right, it's like.
And everyone, of course, in the outdoor space is commenting on it. Typically, I think we are the majority people who kind of agree with, like, our point of view. Shante. Right. And clearly Jaina, Jaina Hana.
I can't say her name anyway, so sorry. The listener who wrote in.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:22.610 - 00:40:23.490
Sorry, listener.
Colin True
00:40:24.130 - 00:40:53.280
But it's listening to other podcasts, maybe one more mainstream sports podcast, and they're talking about it and it's. Did you see it? It was amazing.
My God, this guy, did you see, he had a little, no joke, little bag on his back with something in there and kept his hands dry. And it's a good reminder that. Oh, right, there's a good part. Majority of the population doesn't understand who Alex Honnold really is.
Maybe they know him a little bit from the big movie a few years ago.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:53.360 - 00:40:53.760
Right.
Colin True
00:40:53.920 - 00:41:23.520
And for them, this was an evil Knievel stunt. This was David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear kind of thing.
And we have the, the, the knowledge to know that, like, hey, the stakes here were real and it could have gotten ugly real quick. I agree with you. I think there's like, what, like a 1% chance that he would have fallen. But still, if I got to look at it from that lens, okay, sure.
You know, but the outdoor community, yeah, this was not for us. That was kind of where I kind of landed on it with this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:23.920 - 00:41:32.800
Now, did you See, the. He talked a bit in an interview about, like, what he got paid. It was something probably close to a half million dollars, if not a little more.
He said it was mid six figures.
Colin True
00:41:33.280 - 00:41:34.520
Yeah, that seems loaded.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:34.520 - 00:41:44.940
And then he's. Yeah, right. And he said in the interview, like, I know, like, something about how it was a low fee compared to what a professional athlete gets paid.
I'm like, I feel like your family would have wanted more than that if you did fall.
Colin True
00:41:45.020 - 00:42:13.220
Actually, now I'm actually mad because I'm like, dude, you should have gotten at least a million bucks for this. I would have thought he had gotten several million bucks because Netflix was involved. Like, they have. Like, they're.
They're buying Warner Brothers right now. Like, they don't have the money to pay him. And by the way, it pulled really good numbers if you look at the ratings of it.
And it was delay today because of weather, and it still had, like, you know, it was the third most watched TV show of the week. I heard that, like, and that's when the NFL had the playoffs going on and you only pulled, like, 500 grand and you could have died.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:13.220 - 00:42:20.500
Yeah, he definitely got the short end of the stick. And if you. He's like, oh, I would have done it for free. Well, all right, buddy.
Colin True
00:42:20.980 - 00:42:22.740
He. That's probably true.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:23.140 - 00:42:24.820
Go do it for free on some rocks.
Colin True
00:42:24.900 - 00:42:27.300
Now. Then we complain about that too, because that's what we do.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:28.580 - 00:42:29.380
Mostly you.
Colin True
00:42:29.620 - 00:42:30.260
Good point.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:32.420 - 00:42:46.200
Oh, I think all three of us that have been on today's episode have gotten our opportunity to fish shake. I feel good. It's good. I should do this more often. I feel like the second episode, right. I've done this. Something is boiling within me.
It's just middle age rage.
Colin True
00:42:46.200 - 00:42:50.840
You can start an Instagram feed, Shantae Shakes, where you're just out on your lawn, like, shaking your fist at the clouds.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:51.480 - 00:43:02.840
No. Oh, no. I don't know. I feel like that could go sideways real quick. That's. Again, we'll just save that for the only fans. I love it.
All right, Colin, take us home.
Colin True
00:43:03.320 - 00:43:15.830
Okay, last question. Dear Gear Abby, it seems impossible to get campsites or backpacking permits without planning months ahead.
And I find myself spending less and less time outdoors. Well, that's silly. You can go outside without a permit.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:15.830 - 00:43:22.030
Lots of things stuck in the house. You may never leave unless you have a permit. I mean, that may be our future. I don't know.
Colin True
00:43:22.030 - 00:43:38.510
But this person is not incorrect. It is hard to get these things. Do you have tips or tools that can help with Planning, thinking, camping, backpacking, bike touring trips, et cetera.
Signed Escape from la. Which means Shantae, that snake Plissken, listens to our podcasts.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:38.750 - 00:43:41.510
What the hell is a Snake Plissken? That sounds fake.
Colin True
00:43:41.510 - 00:43:45.610
Have you watched Escape from New York? Kurt Russell, John Carpent, Escape from la.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:46.250 - 00:43:47.250
I've never seen it.
Colin True
00:43:47.250 - 00:43:50.170
All right, well, we need to correct that after we figure out this Lord of the Rings thing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:50.250 - 00:46:36.240
All right. Yeah, we got a lot, we got a lot of stuff to accomplish this year. We'll do our best. Well, listen, Escape from la, which. Great.
I'm glad you're trying to escape from here because I could really help with that. I feel your pain. I mean, we've talked about permits on the show before.
If y' all remember, there was a person who needed help convincing their brother that permits were actually there for a reason. So we don't need to defend their honor again. But yeah, they could be a super huge pain in the ass.
But you do have some options, kind of take the sting out a bit.
So listen, if you've got some bucket list trips where like I must do this thing, mark the date and time on your calendar for when those become available. It's usually a specific date or date range and, and then set a reminder on whatever calendar thing of choice you use on your phone, whatever.
For platforms like recreation.gov, which is where a lot of these things will live, you're going to want to be logged in and ready to go just before that time.
So if the time is 7:00am Pacific Standard Time, like give it a practice go the day before just so you know how it works and then be ready, you know, 6:58 and it's going to seem for popular places, they're going to look like they disappear immediately.
But something you need to know is there is a 15 minute time limit on checking out on a site like recreation.gov and so if you just kind of linger and refresh, just see what gets released back into the pool like some little Pavlovian rat like boop boop boop, refresh. You will have a good chance of getting something that someone did not finish in time.
Or if they've got a friend also grabbing permits, they might text each other, oh, I don't need this one. So stick around for 15 minutes and then, then go ahead and cry if you don't get it. If it's a lottery style permit, do everything I just said.
Maybe not cry, I don't know. It's up to you really. It's how, how you Deal with emotions, but also mark on your calendar when unclaimed permits become available.
So even for super popular places like Mount Whitney, there's people who end up not completing that registration process and they forfeit their spot. You don't get it if you don't finish the process. It's actually a two step process, so be ready to pounce.
Second, check in frequently just to see if permits have been released, which is much more likely as people get closer to their dates and realize like, I can't do this trip for whatever reason, but it can happen at any time. And this is a lot easier if you're just a single person, like one person trying to get out there.
Because it's generally easier to get one permit versus like five. Still worth trying, but one is easier.
I actually have hiked the JMT New Poyo several times from Yosemite Valley, and that is considered the hardest permit to get for that trail. And two of those times, this is exactly how I got a permit. I just looked every day and got real lucky. So that could be you.
I was trying to do a call in, but that's my voice.
Colin True
00:46:36.560 - 00:46:38.000
That could be you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:38.160 - 00:46:39.120
That could be you.
Colin True
00:46:39.120 - 00:46:41.200
That could be you. Is that what you're going for?
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:41.680 - 00:46:46.460
No. We need to do another what's in my Bag segment just so you could do that.
Colin True
00:46:46.460 - 00:46:48.380
Don't worry, I'm ready for it whenever you are.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:48.380 - 00:46:52.620
Okay. All right. Well, actually, I just got very excited. You know what? I did test something today.
Colin True
00:46:52.780 - 00:46:53.180
Oh.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:53.180 - 00:47:00.220
And then I'm gonna test its counterpart tomorrow and then probably for a while. And then we'll do. Then I'll do a what's in my Bag?
Colin True
00:47:00.300 - 00:47:03.580
Should we. Should we tease the listeners that you also have some is coming.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:03.980 - 00:47:08.060
Oh, my God, I'm so y'. All. We're gonna see about this.
Colin True
00:47:08.220 - 00:47:09.740
So we don't. We don't reveal what it is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:09.740 - 00:47:13.720
Yeah, you should. You should just bleep, bleep. Now you got to bleep my second mention of it.
Colin True
00:47:13.720 - 00:47:14.320
Yes, I will.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:14.320 - 00:47:16.280
Okay. Lots of editing work for you, Colin.
Colin True
00:47:16.280 - 00:47:18.840
But I love to tease the audience, so it's good.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:18.840 - 00:47:25.840
Oh, I love to tease the audience. That's also for the only fans. So anyway, back to permits.
Lloyd Vogel
00:47:25.840 - 00:47:26.320
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:26.800 - 00:48:10.840
On a similar note, I would say there's a handful of services that have popped up that are essentially automated programs that constantly search for available permits and reservations. And they'll alert you if and when you. Your chosen permit dates, you know, and trailhead becomes available. One of these sites is Camp. Camp Nab.
That's Nab Camp Nab.com which scans for open campsites and state national parks and that's both the US and Canada. So a. If you you want to get out of the country, go ahead.
There's Also, there's also wild permits.com which allows you to set email alerts for when permits for selected dates and trail heads are released. And there's another one that is new to me called outdoor status.com I don't.
Colin True
00:48:10.840 - 00:48:12.440
Know who the hell seems like a dating site.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:13.080 - 00:48:14.240
Outdoor status.
Lloyd Vogel
00:48:14.240 - 00:48:14.920
My status.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:15.720 - 00:48:17.320
Pooping alongside the trail.
Colin True
00:48:17.320 - 00:48:18.040
That's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:18.440 - 00:48:26.440
That's where you can find your special somebody who's ready to clean up after you. There's a K. Someone has that kink. Okay.
Colin True
00:48:26.680 - 00:48:27.560
Oh for sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:28.040 - 00:48:31.120
Maybe they've already found each other in this life. But if not, go to outdoor.
Colin True
00:48:31.120 - 00:48:36.680
Maybe that's why this person earlier like that's several times they're they're seeking like oh no, it happened again.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:38.740 - 00:51:19.740
Anyone will stop and help. Take your time. Oh, poor outdoor status dot com.
Whatever they're they're actually focused on wilderness permits and I did like on their website while I was not able to do any matchmaking for myself, I was able to see they will show you kind of upcoming permit release dates and date ranges right on the landing page, which is really great. So yeah. Yeah. Also. Okay, here, listen. Consider some alternate routes to get to where you want to go.
So somewhere you're, you're in Southern California here. If you're going to the Sierra, there's a lot of different ways to get to cool places inside the Sierra.
So if you can't get the trail you want, look to see what trails connect. And this goes for anywhere. Okay.
If you want to hike somewhere on the east coast or Colorado, wherever, see what other trails maybe connect or go into the area you want to be in. So yeah, I'd say sometimes just do an extra. If you can fit an extra day of hiking in by using a side trail and it makes it easier to get a permit.
It's totally worth building that into your itinerary. But I'd say like the last thing is just start a different bucket list. Okay. Places that don't require permits. You can have two bucket lists.
One bucket list is the impossible bucket list. One is the very possible bucket list. Okay. Okay. State parks, national forest, BLM lands, places that allow you to self issue at the trail head.
Even places where you might need to get a permit ahead. But there's no number like no cap on them. So I'll give you a few Examples, you live in la.
It sounds like one place I go this time of year that has a super simple permit process and it's actually a very new permit process. Joshua Tree national park, the only permit there that's even moderately competitive is for one of the designated sites, sites on the Boy Scout trail.
And I looked at reservations there even on weekends right now there's still plenty of those spots available. So Death Valley is another park that has a super easy system. I mean people very rarely backpack there, but you can.
Anza Borrego Desert State park has no permit requirements. I mean much of the PCT in Southern California, no permit requirements. Okay, so this is, this is going to be the same for people across the country.
Look at what you have around you. It's not just national parks and these big like Instagram famous places that are worth getting to. I guarantee you have beautiful state parks by you.
Okay. You might even have some real nice county parks. You might even have some beautiful national forests and, and things like that.
Like look, and expand your mind a bit. National monuments, I don't know, like open, open your mind.
Think beyond the must sees that everybody foams at the mouth about because there is just so much beautiful stuff out there. And that is. See, look, look, we're, we're ending on a high note. It looks real positive.
Colin True
00:51:19.900 - 00:51:21.100
No fist shaking here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:21.340 - 00:51:24.380
No fist shaking here. Just encouraging you to open up.
Colin True
00:51:24.780 - 00:51:32.180
That's what I was going to ask. Right, because look, I get it if you have like a bucket list saying I want to climb like Mount Whitney for example.
It's the highest peak in the lower 40.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:32.180 - 00:51:35.660
I know you don't though. Don't lie. Why are you lying to the listeners?
Colin True
00:51:35.660 - 00:51:37.660
But I mean, actually I do. My buddy Jake.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:37.660 - 00:51:39.260
You just want to poop along the trail.
Colin True
00:51:39.340 - 00:52:10.160
Well, I definitely want to do that. I got to go meet up with the person I met on outdoor status who's into it.
But, but like this, the second highest peak in California, which is Mount Williamson, and it's only like 200ft lower than Mount Whitney, but also requires a permit. I would guess it might be easier to get a permit to go up Mount Williamson than it is and looks like if you Google it, right. It's like 26 mile trip.
I mean it's very similar. Probably ordeal to climb Mount Williamson as it is Mount Whitney. So maybe, I don't know, it's a different.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:10.160 - 00:52:12.250
Maybe that's not the best, best example of.
Colin True
00:52:12.330 - 00:52:37.520
Okay, well still like the point being to your point is like look around, don't get maybe Mount Langley. Yeah, there you go. But just the point being, like, look around and there's so much stuff, and probably a lot of places require a permit.
I love Anza Borrego as an example. That's not too far from me. And I love Anza Borrego. There's no one. The San Rafael Swell in Utah.
I was there on a bike packing trip and we're all like, how is this not a national park? This place is ridiculous. Yeah, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:37.520 - 00:52:58.640
Like, I went there during COVID and I was like, how do people just cram in the national parks? They're beautiful, but there's so much incredible stuff around them. So, yeah, you'd be surprised.
I think just open up, create that second bucket list, you know, and if you find anything good, invite me along. Maybe invite Colin. You know, actually, don't. I was just kidding. You can invite Colin.
Colin True
00:52:58.640 - 00:53:01.560
Oh, don't. Don't back off of that. That was a good verse.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:01.560 - 00:53:21.270
No, I actually meant it. I actually meant, meant it. So that's it for this episode of Gear Abby.
Until next time, send your burning questions and your camping invites to us at Dear Gear Abby, mail dot com. I'm going to do my best to answer them or I'll find someone else who can. And of course, of course, of course, head over to I'm a vampire.
Colin True
00:53:21.750 - 00:53:22.710
Of course, of course.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:23.510 - 00:53:48.160
I used to watch that Nick at night. Head over to podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the pod and make my day.
If you like Instagram, we're over there at Gear Abby Pod. In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and this guy, Colin Shrew. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert.
I'm Shantae Salibair, and remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.
Colin True
00:53:50.160 - 00:53:51.040
Finger guns.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:51.360 - 00:53:52.320
Finger guns.
