Nike Eyes Trail Running & Sierra Steals the Suburbs
- colin7931
- 32 minutes ago
- 42 min read
Today on The Rock Fight, Colin, Eoin Comerford, and Producer Dave break down two major outdoor-industry storylines: Nike’s push into trail running and Sierra’s rapid suburban takeover. Plus listener feedback, The Lightning Round, and The Parting Shot!
On The Docket!
Mailbag:Â A listener response to the Patagonia Impact Report and how they make their stuff.
Nike Targets Trail Running:Â Does a Hoka lookalike and a new race sponsorship puts Nike ACG in the trail running pole position?
The Lightning Round! Running continues to crush, REI's new travel partnership, and highlighting Women Led Wednesday!
Sierra’s Expansion: Now at 141 U.S. stores Sierra's growth continues so The Rock Fight takes a field trip a couple of local stores to see the chain for themselves.
For The Parting Shot presented by Garage Grown Gear Colin highlights a friend of the pod's outdoor industry trade show call out (and solution)!
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.080 - 00:00:47.270
Fjallraven isn't here to conquer mountains, tame rivers, or beat the weather. We are here to go slowly, to tread carefully, and to cherish the visit. For us, the outdoor experience has never been a race to victory.
It's an ongoing journey to create equipment and memories that last for generations to come. Our mission is to inspire more people to move with nature. We do this by developing durable and functional equipment that never goes out of fashion.
What we really want is to make it easier for people to enjoy spending time in nature on nature's terms. This is our passion.
So let's use our vast experience and competence to help more people feel at home in nature, because when they do, they will take greater care of it. Get started on your Fjallraven journey by heading to fjallraven.com today.
Dave Owen, you know, as the air cools and the trail beckons, Lem's is ready to move with you.
Eoin Comerford
00:00:47.270 - 00:00:47.990
Is it now?
Colin True
00:00:48.550 - 00:00:54.430
It's just right with you little lemmings running alongside you, leading you. Don't ask them where they're leading you.
Producer Dave
00:00:54.430 - 00:01:01.420
It sounds like one of those little fruits that falls from your tree that you can't eat them. I don't know what purpose they serve. They just.
Colin True
00:01:01.420 - 00:01:03.180
But you want to. They're beautiful colors.
Producer Dave
00:01:03.180 - 00:01:06.540
They are. But, you know, they just. They. Yeah, they just.
Colin True
00:01:06.540 - 00:01:11.620
You'll go full Chris McCandless if you do, right? Too soon to make jokes about Chris McCandless?
Producer Dave
00:01:11.620 - 00:01:14.540
That's right. I have a bushel of Lems in my yard, right?
Colin True
00:01:15.180 - 00:01:57.830
Well, you could have a bushel of their new shoes, the Trailblazer mid. They've got the mighty trail thrasher and the insulated breck boot.
And everybody listening to this, you can get your Lem's boots to get ready for the season ahead. Attention outdoor retailers. Lemz will be at the running event and Switchback, which will be next week.
You can see all of those styles, including the unedible fruits that they make that Dave referenced. And you can also check out. Lemz will have their new running shoes on display at the running event. They also Lem's. Hey, retailers again.
Lemz has recently expanded their wholesale sales team. If you want to meet your new local rep, you send an email to Colo. That's c o l o@lemshoes.com.
just make sure you tell them that the rock fight sent you Lems, where less equals more.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:58.070 - 00:02:05.350
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Colin True
00:02:06.550 - 00:02:25.650
Welcome to the Rock fight, where we speak our Truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and joining me today live from the jungle of Sierra's jet rail closeouts and unbox hiking boots, it's Owen Comerford and producer Dave get lost in there.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:26.210 - 00:02:27.490
It's a treasure hunt.
Colin True
00:02:29.090 - 00:02:33.370
It is a treasure. That's what they should. That's how they should describe it over there at Sierra. It's a treasure hunt.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:33.370 - 00:02:43.010
Well, no, they do. If you listen to any of that, we're going to get into this. But if you listen to any of their earnings calls, TJ Maxx, that's their whole vibe.
They say treasure hunt. That's what we're going for.
Colin True
00:02:43.490 - 00:02:46.810
I love that actually, because it's just like owning it.
Producer Dave
00:02:46.810 - 00:02:54.960
Do they have David Spade come on and give you hints to where to find the treasure? So much spokesperson for Sierra?
Eoin Comerford
00:02:55.120 - 00:02:56.400
Yeah, he is.
Chris DeMakes
00:02:56.400 - 00:02:56.840
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:02:56.840 - 00:02:58.000
In fact, he, you know, when I.
Colin True
00:02:58.000 - 00:03:02.960
Think outdoors, I think Spade, I think Hollywood Minute from 1988 or whatever. That's what I think.
Producer Dave
00:03:03.280 - 00:03:03.920
That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:04.240 - 00:03:06.800
You take a dump in the outdoors. Colin, what do you need?
Colin True
00:03:07.040 - 00:03:10.080
Toilet paper? Spade. Yeah, there it is.
Producer Dave
00:03:10.160 - 00:03:11.520
Oh, my gosh.
Colin True
00:03:11.760 - 00:03:14.320
Just connected the dots. That's why he's the Catiglieri folks.
Producer Dave
00:03:14.320 - 00:03:14.960
There you go.
Colin True
00:03:14.960 - 00:04:13.160
Well, like we said today, we are going to be talking about Sierra and all of their merchandise.
We're also going to be talking about Nike's potential big push into trail running, answering a listener email and of course, we'll be zipping through the lightning round before wrapping it all up with the parting shot. Before we get to that, we have some programming reminders for you. Are you ready to see us the Rock Fight live.
You're going to have me, Shantae Salibar and producer Dave and the consigliere Owen Comerford at the running event.
Next Wednesday, December 3rd, we're doing a live taping of the Rock Fight in the training camp Theater at 4:30 during the Happy hour at October by the switchback side of the event.
If you're going to be there, we're going to be joined on stage by folks like Tre show director Christina Henderson, president of the OIA Kent Ebersol. These are exciting names, folks. And potentially one other special guest we're gonna.
We haven't locked it in as of this recording, but probably someone else. You're also gonna hear from Gear Abbey.
Right, we're gonna ask a Gear Abby question and of course you'll get producer Dave and the rest of our crew's assessment of the Booth situation. That's how we describe it, Dave.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:13.320 - 00:04:28.420
So fair warning, I think, to anybody that's gonna be there, we will be watching you. Okay? We're gonna be going booth to booth. We'd be looking for those laptop people, the people that just black drape and a crappy banner.
Producer Dave
00:04:29.940 - 00:04:30.300
We're.
Chris DeMakes
00:04:30.300 - 00:04:30.900
We're. We're.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:30.980 - 00:04:32.420
So don't say you weren't warned.
Colin True
00:04:33.060 - 00:05:12.080
Any sales management out there who wants us to report back on the, you know, laptop sales reps, you know, let us know. We'll route them out doing your brand dirty. But if you've been. If you were at Switchback Spring, you know how much fun we're gonna have.
We hope we see you in San Antonio. Hey, and if there's one thing in life you can depend on, it's that Gear Abby doesn't take days off.
All right, this third, this Thanksgiving Thursday, you're gonna get an all new episode of Gear Abby with host Shante Salibar. She answers all Burning Outdoor questions. And lastly, we want to hear from you. Email us@myrockfightgmail.com.
reach out on LinkedIn where you can search up Rock Fight and find us, or head to Instagram where we are. Rock Fight. Co. Send us a message. We'd love to hear from you, Colin.
Producer Dave
00:05:12.080 - 00:05:15.640
You know who does take days off calling?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:15.640 - 00:05:16.000
True.
Colin True
00:05:16.160 - 00:05:17.280
What are you talking about?
Producer Dave
00:05:17.280 - 00:05:18.720
Do you know who does what?
Colin True
00:05:19.360 - 00:05:21.760
What do you mean? Are you referring to me?
Producer Dave
00:05:21.840 - 00:05:23.920
The newsletter? The newsletter.
Colin True
00:05:24.000 - 00:05:28.320
Oh, you're talking about Friday's episode which came out after this taping.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:28.320 - 00:05:31.260
Yes, Friday's episode. That came out when? Tuesday.
Colin True
00:05:32.620 - 00:05:49.820
It'll come out. It'll be out by the time late Friday afternoon it came out. I can speak that now because it will have happened by the time this is released.
Listen, it's my daughter's birthday on Thursday, and I chose to spend time with them. My twins are 15. Okay, there you go. Feel bad now. Hope you all feel terrible.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:50.220 - 00:05:57.340
Well, you didn't tell the people that on LinkedIn. You said it was because you were going hiking, which was. Which was clearly bullshit. Clearly bullshit.
Colin True
00:05:58.050 - 00:05:59.490
No, I definitely went hiking. Okay.
Producer Dave
00:06:01.650 - 00:06:03.970
Without a birthday. Yeah.
Colin True
00:06:04.370 - 00:07:45.650
No, they were not there. They want to go hiking. Yeah, they're 15. Oh, my God. All right, well, look, today we're starting in the mailbag.
And in response to last week's coverage here on the Rock Flight of Patagonia's impact report, we received the following email from listener Caroline, who wrote in, Patagonia certainly opens the doors to people giving them grief. And I think that's A good thing.
If they're working with the same factories as Fast Fashion and the people who care about this stuff want to see meaningful system changes, then there's really no other avenue to openly push back. Pushing back against the Shein or whoever just lands on deaf ears.
I think the thought is if Patagonia starts paying more to their workers that then the manufacturing facility will prioritize them as customers in turn putting pressure on other companies to use the same facility to have fairer demands. Even when pay is run through a PPP calculator only only 30 something percent of seas make a livable wage.
It just feels pretty gross that even the best companies are supporting the system. I'd be curious what other ways you guys view was worthwhile pushing back to change the system. Appreciate the show. Thanks. From Caroline.
Great take, great email. Thank you Caroline.
I think the thing about Patagonia before I turn it over to my co host here is their standards are ridiculous, ridiculously high when it comes to manufacturing partners. There may not be a better example of a big brand who does all that they can to make their stuff the right way.
And when you do competitive, compare the larger outdoor industry to the rest of the fashion industry which cover your ears if you don't want to hear this. The outdoor apparel world is part of the fashion industry. Most of our brands do do it better.
So there isn't a baseline of kind of outdoor brands including Patagonia doing it better versus the sheens of the world. But I'm curious Dave Owen, what do you guys think about Caroline had to say here?
Eoin Comerford
00:07:46.050 - 00:07:52.770
I mean I think first of all I push back on the thought that they are working in the same factories that produce product for Shein. They're just not.
Colin True
00:07:52.770 - 00:07:53.250
Correct.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:53.250 - 00:07:53.890
Agreed.
Colin True
00:07:54.290 - 00:07:54.930
They are not.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:55.010 - 00:08:02.750
They're working with the best of the best factors in terms of quality, in terms of their technical abilities and in terms of the way they treat their workers.
Colin True
00:08:03.870 - 00:08:07.070
And if those things get violated, they are swift to take action.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:07.390 - 00:09:31.190
Absolutely. So I mean I think Patagonia is doing a great job here.
They're one of the, I mean there are lots of outdoor brands that do look at some fair labor standards and other things, but this is taking it to a whole other level in terms of transparency and talking about the challenges that they face because really Patagonia can't do this by themselves. Themselves. They aren't Patagonia's workers as was inferred there in the email.
They work for the factory and that Factory probably supports 5, 10 other different brands that are out there and that's really what Patagonia says in this. They say we cannot move the needle alone. Low wages are a systemic challenge in our industry. And so engagement with government is just as crucial.
And so that's really the piece is that I think they're doing a great job shining a light on the issue, which I think more brands need to do. And I guess as I was reflecting on this, I was thinking back in this time of all the tariff issues a lot of brands talked about.
Oh well, we tried to push as much of that increase back onto the factory.
Right, well, did those brands ask, okay, factory, if you're cutting my price by 5%, did that come out of your profit or did it come out of your workers wages? How many brands are asking that question? So yeah, I really, I applaud Patagonia for, for really taking a stand here.
Colin True
00:09:31.190 - 00:09:56.760
Dave.
When you look back at our time at Polartech, we dealt, we heard a lot of these stories, right, because we knew a lot of who were the cut and sew manufacturers were working with the brands who bought Polartech fabrics.
And it's always seemed like a real point of differentiation for the industry that I don't know if anybody never did a really good job of shining a light on because the practices of our industry are superior to the fast fashion world and it doesn't really get the attention it deserves. Is there a, is there a good way to do that to make it matter to consumers?
Producer Dave
00:09:57.240 - 00:10:02.440
To make it matter to consumers? That's the $20 question, isn't it?
Colin True
00:10:02.440 - 00:10:03.240
That's it, right.
Producer Dave
00:10:03.240 - 00:11:21.090
It's always, I mean, you look at all of our trust marks that are out there and our auditing agencies and everyone trying to build a brand that people then kind of look to, to validate their, their moral position. Look, look, you know the word, you know, the term fast fashion is a pretty big broad thing. So it's easy to say they' same factories as fast fashion.
But where does that line, I mean she ends a pretty specific example and she and I from, I understand, makes about 95% of their products in one city in China, you know, I mean, or one district or area. So it's not like they're all over the place where. I don't think that's the case with, with Patagonia. And like you said, the, the outdoor.
I mean, I don't think we can really worry about what the rest. I mean this is the opposite of what we're saying. We need group kind of to push this, the, the, the system forward.
You have to stop making products in scaled numbers. And that's the only way to solve that issue. How?
I don't understand how you get products to market onto people in a growing population society and restrict the number of things that you make. Right. So that's going to be the, the tension there that I don't know is resolvable.
Colin True
00:11:21.970 - 00:11:25.330
Well, but we all also know we overproduce a ton of apparel. Right?
Producer Dave
00:11:25.970 - 00:11:38.210
Apparel. But how about specific to the Outdoor Channel, it is not this. Do we overproduce? Yes.
Do we produce in the same overproduce in the same numbers as apparel? No, of course not. Not even close.
Colin True
00:11:38.450 - 00:11:54.600
Is this an OIA question?
Is this something where like there's pressure to be put on the industry through the trade organization to say, hey, you know, we need a little bit more of an alignment of like if you're an apparel brand, you know, you gotta, these are the, these are the vetted factories that you should be using. I mean that might be obviously too limiting and you want to tell people how to run their own business.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:54.600 - 00:11:55.000
Right.
Colin True
00:11:55.000 - 00:12:05.480
But in terms of again the agreed to principles, the idea of like we're trying to protect the environment, there's an assumption that if it's made by an outdoor brand, that it was done with some level of care by most consumers. Right.
Producer Dave
00:12:06.120 - 00:12:06.480
What?
Colin True
00:12:06.480 - 00:12:17.810
You know, and if there, I'm sure there are plenty of offenders out there that aren't Patagonia as well. I mean, is there a path here, Owen, that kind of like helps address some of this on, at a more like larger scale?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:17.890 - 00:13:08.990
I would say, like I look to REI as an example. So a lot of people aren't aware, but REI has some pretty specific standards for their product suppliers, especially when it comes to sustainability.
Right. And they are starting to expand those, those requirements into other areas.
And so if REI basically said, hey, it has to be fair trade, it has to be certified in a certain way, guess what? The industry would fall in line because that is big portion of where they're selling into.
So I think it kind of has to become a pocketbook problem for the wider industry beyond the Patagonias of the world to really get, get behind it. And I think that would, that would be where I think you could make a difference.
And by the way, kudos to REI for what they have done with their supplier standards. But this, this could be that next step potentially.
Colin True
00:13:09.310 - 00:14:07.660
Yeah. And I think it comes back to, and this is very dated information, one of the first guests we ever had on the rock fight nearly three years ago now.
Was Ken Pucker, who is the former CEO of Tim and he is a big advocate now for green manufacturing.
And he told me at the time that the New York Fashion act, which was designed to really make sure focus on scope three emissions and things like that for brands and where they're sold. And if it passed, it would kind of put some regulatory restrictions in place for how you make things and then how it gets distributed in New York.
And if you obviously want your stuff sold in New York City, you would have to acquiesce to those changes. And at the time of that recording, nearly three years ago, only one outdoor industry brand had signed on to support it.
So there does come down to like, you know, when these things do get put in place and there might be good reasons why not to support it.
I haven't read the legislation, but it just sort of seems like on, at least on the surface, you know, there still needs a real like high level of buy in to probably make mass change in this.
And it still comes down to, you know, Owen, to your point, you got to hit the pocketbook if you really want to make, you know, drive change right now.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:07.660 - 00:14:11.130
Yeah. Especially in the current climate with tariffs and all the rest of it. Yeah.
Colin True
00:14:11.130 - 00:14:12.410
It's just not a priority.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:12.410 - 00:14:13.410
Not a priority. Yeah.
Colin True
00:14:14.370 - 00:14:53.669
All right, well, getting into our first big story of today, there were multiple developments over the past week that shows us where the Swoosh Nike may be training its Sauron like eye as the brand looks to rebound from a few down years. It's a swoosh and no one listening to this podcast should be shocked that it appears to be running. More specifically, trail running. That's right.
We fulfilled our weekly obligation to mention trail running on this podcast. No, first look, we have a new product from Nike. We have the Vomero plus, which a headline in High snobiety ran that read this thick. Nike is low key.
Built like a hoka. And it does indeed look.
Producer Dave
00:14:53.750 - 00:14:57.670
Well, that's the dishonesty of the press right there, Colin, because that ain't low key.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:58.790 - 00:14:59.670
It's high key.
Producer Dave
00:14:59.670 - 00:15:00.070
Right?
Colin True
00:15:00.470 - 00:15:02.750
Yeah, yeah, seriously. And then I'll tell.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:02.750 - 00:15:16.580
Although I would say in response to that, this is by far not Nike's first max cushion shoe. I mean they've been, they, they introduced the invincible back in 21, so. But yes, it definitely looks like a Hoka though.
Colin True
00:15:17.140 - 00:15:43.410
You could swap a logo out pretty quick and think that, oh yeah, that's a HOKA for sure.
Then the other news last week was on Thursday of last week, Freetrail CEO Dylan Bowman announced that the Gorge Waterfalls 100 100K will be sponsored by Nike ACG and will have a $75,000 purse, making it one of the highest payout trail races anywhere, not just even in the US anywhere. So guys, let's talk about this. Is Nike coming for trail running? I mean, it sure looks like it, 100%.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:43.410 - 00:16:28.990
Of course they are. I mean, I think that the push back into running makes a ton of sense from a bunch of factors.
One is it is the tip of the spear in terms of technology which then does filter down to the others. I mean look at HOKA today. That started really as more of a running technology and now it's everywhere.
Second, it's the category that's really growing. And it's growing because people are not running in the shoes, but they're buying them because they're super comfortable.
And the third thing is trail running is the piece of running that's growing the fastest. It also is commanding some of the highest prices for those products, the super shoes, et cetera.
So yeah, it makes a ton of sense for them to come after this.
Colin True
00:16:28.990 - 00:16:31.830
Dave, you bought acg. I believe in our buy sell episode.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:31.830 - 00:16:32.230
I did.
Producer Dave
00:16:32.230 - 00:16:34.190
And I'm still holding, I'm still holding.
Colin True
00:16:34.510 - 00:16:37.130
You're going to buy a little more on your investment.
Producer Dave
00:16:38.090 - 00:17:55.800
Look, if Nike can wear down skateboarding and become a legitimate brand in that space, what chance does trail running really have? I mean, like, I mean this is a category that does a. They've got a 40 year ACG presence. It's running as part of their origin story.
So they are already legitimate in this space. And you know, to, to think that ACG is just going to stay this urban outdoor lifestyle y thing.
You know, performance is, is just how the current regime is wired. So that's gonna be their default is to go back to that playbook of events, of promotion, of advertising, of prize money.
You know, it's like categories need dream makers, right?
And so if you really wanna move this from just a popular niche into something that's gonna have more mainstream appeal and hold, you've gotta create the dream making around that category. And it's a different media landscape. They did it with basketball in the 80s, they did it with tennis in the 90s.
They've created these kind of cultures out of a niche. And I think this is what you're going to see here too. The Olympics are coming up so that's going to move right into the promotional aspect of it.
But yeah, long answer to oh yeah, they're coming.
Colin True
00:17:55.960 - 00:18:00.280
Is there A little hubris there, because we're Nike. We can just do it, right? I mean, since they've sort of.
Producer Dave
00:18:00.360 - 00:18:01.560
That's their superpower.
Colin True
00:18:02.390 - 00:18:20.990
Well, I understand, but also. But I would recommend main incumbents called HOKA and Ultra out there. They're all of these brands we keep talking about. Right.
This is a category that really responds to the niche player. You know, are they almost too big, are they main, are they too mainstream to ascend to the top of the trail running?
Producer Dave
00:18:20.990 - 00:18:57.320
Oh, no. See, that's the time that it takes. The same thing, you could say, with skateboarding. Right. Skateboarding was a very xenophobic category. Right.
I mean, it always was really hostile to outsiders and really, really rewarded, at least psychologically. The upstart. I mean, back in the day of action sports, vans was considered a big, bad company. And I think at its time, it was like $60 million. Right?
So it's just like, there's just such a different scale there of what's the big incumbent versus kind of the small upstart. And they will win over time. Right? Right now, they will just become legitimate and part of the landscape, I think.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:57.640 - 00:19:08.730
Sorry. Well, the other thing I would say is the key piece of that, the press release about the. The Gorge waterfalls is that it's sponsored by Nike.
Acg, not just Nike.
Colin True
00:19:08.810 - 00:19:09.130
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:09.130 - 00:19:24.810
Which I think is super smart for them to basically say, hey, listen, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna have a sub brand that. Where we can build all of that trail DNA and not be sort of diluted by the fact that we do all these other things. No, no, no.
We're at this sub brand, and we're gonna go hard at it with acg.
Producer Dave
00:19:25.690 - 00:19:40.510
Well, and to the. The Gorge waterfall. That's such an Oregon flex. Right. So you wan on that together. I mean, you're talking like a dozen waterfalls running through that.
Like, come on, that's. That's prime real estate.
Colin True
00:19:40.510 - 00:19:44.910
That's true. We may. You may have had to recuse yourself from this conversation, Dave. All right. It's a little too close to home for you.
Producer Dave
00:19:44.910 - 00:19:49.590
Dude, that's Ponytail falls. How can I. How can I resist?
Colin True
00:19:49.670 - 00:19:51.710
Basically named for you. Let's be honest.
Producer Dave
00:19:51.710 - 00:19:52.870
Right? Come on.
Colin True
00:19:54.150 - 00:20:30.860
I guess, like, you know, if you talk about the mainstream and obviously with the, you know, effectively, you know, trail runners, eliminating the light hiking category in a lot of ways. Right. Like, of course, I feel like they will win there, but I think this is when you Will they win. Not just with the ACG brand.
Sponsoring races, that kind of thing. Will the Product. Can the product win when it is that? It seems like the.
The brands that are rewarded are often are the Nordis and the Speedlands and the Mount to coast. And it is kind of the niche sort of.
I knew, you know, that kind of hipster vibe of like, I knew about this before you did, versus, like who's going to be rolling up in the ACGs who aren't sponsored by Nike ACG?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:30.860 - 00:20:53.660
Well, a ton of people.
I mean, you look at even those numbers from trailwaves about who's represented even at the existing major events, Nike is still, I think is still like top three there today. Right. So I don't think it's going to take long for you to see Nike ACG on that list and moving up towards the top.
Colin True
00:20:54.210 - 00:21:03.090
And let's not forget a single thing. And this might get Dave off on another tangent. What category launched Nike running brand?
Producer Dave
00:21:03.090 - 00:21:04.450
Yeah, absolutely. Right, yeah.
Colin True
00:21:05.410 - 00:21:06.810
This is their heritage that's just getting.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:06.810 - 00:21:07.450
Back to their roots.
Colin True
00:21:07.450 - 00:21:08.730
It's triple, right?
Producer Dave
00:21:08.730 - 00:21:45.650
Well, yeah, and like I said, ACG is 40 years old, so it's like there's some heritage there too in the space. So it's not just completely new.
And I would say all the newcomers we have, they're pushing product design forward, but all of the successful ones we've talked about or the ones that are best positioned, let's be fair, they learned branding from Nike, right?
I mean, they bringing that type of vibe, you call them the hipster vibe, but they're bringing that kind of sophisticated image storytelling to the table. That's what Nike excels at as well.
So it's like they're going to be a player within their new players are going to have to just bring all of it in order to, to make, to gain ground.
Colin True
00:21:46.850 - 00:22:00.730
Yeah, this made. This development might be the one thing to make me kind of question my choice to sell on trail running.
It's kind of like, well, if Nike's going to do this, that could be the back on which this goes up a level that just could not happen.
Producer Dave
00:22:00.730 - 00:22:15.570
And this is what they can do. This is they can put money for prize money, they can pay athletes living wages to go do their sport.
I mean, that's what they bring to the table and I'd like to see them doing that, frankly. Like I said, we need dream makers in categories and that's the way to do it.
Colin True
00:22:15.970 - 00:22:27.320
All right, Willy Wonka. All right. So by the way, you've been on the ACG a corner for a while, Dave, you know, so this is a pretty big win. For you. When?
When are we going to get to celebrate? You know, your belief in Teva, Is that coming?
Eoin Comerford
00:22:27.320 - 00:22:27.960
Is that next?
Producer Dave
00:22:28.760 - 00:22:31.160
We've got some work to do, Colin. We've got some work to do.
Colin True
00:22:32.840 - 00:22:42.680
Hey rock fighters. You've been asking for it and now it's back. Time for some rock fight radio.
And we've got Darby Communications with their timely new hit 21st Century Search.
Chris DeMakes
00:22:42.840 - 00:23:40.190
You said your story got lost online in the scroll in the spiral lines the bots decide who gets to be seen. But Darby knows how to train the machine. They tune your brand for the modern eyes optimized for the new AI.
From Zero search they can find your way through AI noise to the light of day. Darby. Darby, can you hear me? It's all in a. And I can't see.
Bobby, help me find my name in the souther rhythmic bearing rain you bring me back to sell my merch. It's a 21st century search.
Colin True
00:23:42.350 - 00:25:00.000
That was Darby Communications with 21st Century Search. Darby's your real person PR partner for today's digital world. Entrusted by brands like Lem's Old Town, Jetboil and Qu.
And hey, they can help your brand to get seen, be heard and stand out in our new media reality. Headed darbycommunications.com this one's for all the gear makers out there.
The biggest barrier for killer new products is sourcing the right fabrics. Working with mills is a pain and too often you get stuck with their whatever sort of fits.
Well, what if we told you there was a partner who works with you to design, source and curate fabrics that enhance your product line? And that partner, it's Ripstop by the Roll. Ripstop by the Roll is your one stop shop for the perfect fabric solution to your next hit piece of gear.
These guys handle the headaches and will work with you to develop or find the right solution. From yarn to finished fabric, they have the application experts and production partners that make your job easy.
From cottage companies on garage grown gear to eight figure brands at rei. They've been around. They know what they're doing. Rip Stop by the Roll simply wants to help you build the best product.
So hey, are you looking to source globally? Done. You want to find something domestically? They got you. Are you ready to learn more? Then head to RipstopbytheRolle.com to connect today.
All right guys, you ready for the lightning round?
Producer Dave
00:25:00.000 - 00:25:00.440
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:00.440 - 00:25:01.280
So ready.
Chris DeMakes
00:25:03.360 - 00:25:04.640
Lightning round.
Colin True
00:25:07.480 - 00:25:17.320
I always feel Owens enthusiasm for the lightning. Let's keep the running talk going. Last week SGB reported that one continues to Grow.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:17.480 - 00:25:18.040
Come on.
Colin True
00:25:18.680 - 00:25:31.960
Saucony Ultra and Nike posted healthy Q3 gains as previously talked about here on the show. Hoka slowed down a little bit, but still. But still grew, as did Brooks and Asics. Dave, when will this end?
Chris DeMakes
00:25:31.960 - 00:25:32.520
When, When.
Colin True
00:25:32.600 - 00:25:35.160
When will boots come back? We need boots, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:25:35.160 - 00:25:48.950
Oh, come on. It's just getting going. Well, they'll be back. They'll be back. Just. Just wait. Just wait.
I think society has to fall a couple more notches to really require the. The boot look and kind of steel toes and combat boots to come back.
Colin True
00:25:48.950 - 00:25:50.070
Dr. Martin, save us.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:50.310 - 00:25:52.310
I think that the. The more octogenarians.
Producer Dave
00:25:52.310 - 00:25:53.430
Dr. Martin, save us.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:53.430 - 00:26:05.670
Yeah, well, right. The more octogenarians are rolling around in their hokas, you know, the more the youngest generation will go, I don't want to look like that.
And so that will be the wheel, naturally, turning back to boots at that point.
Colin True
00:26:06.730 - 00:26:27.130
Please just promise me it's going to happen, guys.
All right, well, next up, per ciso, last week, REI announced that after shutting down their experiences division less than a year ago, they are back in the travel game as they announced a new partnership with Intrepid Travel to offer adventure travel trips to their members and customers. Owen, are you surprised to see this happen so quickly after REI close down experiences?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:27.210 - 00:26:47.940
Oh, not at all.
In fact, in a post last month on LinkedIn about how REI is going to restructure their membership program, I talk about actually them adding outdoorsy benefits from outside companies. And the first one on the list was special discounts on adventure travel to help address the shuttering of our AI experiences.
Colin True
00:26:48.100 - 00:26:49.140
I'm just teeing you up today.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:49.140 - 00:26:49.420
Thank you.
Colin True
00:26:49.420 - 00:26:51.900
Just like, just knocking these out. Yeah, Just teeing you up.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:51.900 - 00:27:30.800
But it just makes too much sense. Right. Because they're going from a division that had 400 employees. That number still blows my mind. Right. Just. And was just.
They lost money every year. Even in their best years, they lost money on that whole deal because it was so labor intensive. We'll call it this way.
They get to offer, you know, basically most of the same stuff, and they're taking a commission and they're getting, you know, a special discount for their members. I mean, it's like a win, win, win from a purely financial perspective.
Obviously, it's not a win, win, win for those 400 employees, which is not, you know, not nothing.
Colin True
00:27:30.960 - 00:27:56.890
Well, well, good luck to that. We'll see how that pans out.
And then lastly, this episode will be releasing on the Monday of Thanksgiving week, which means that we are two days away from women led Wednesday, the Annual holiday that encourages everyone to shop from women led brands. So each of us has brought a brand that we found by heading to womenled Wednesday.com where there are literally 18 pages of brands to choose from.
It is an incredible resource. Owen, why don't you kick us off? Who do you got first?
Eoin Comerford
00:27:57.530 - 00:28:28.610
So I tell the story here. So in prep for this call, right, I reached out to all of the women led brands that I know or work with.
It was like 20, 25 brands and like, hey, are you on this thing? Is it good? You know, has it helped if you're not, you know, you could get on.
So I send this thing out and I included Cassie Abel from Wild Rye on there. And then Cassie's like, like, well, this is great. Oh, thanks for promoting this, Owen. So she actually helped start Women led Wednesdays.
Colin True
00:28:28.610 - 00:28:31.210
Yeah, she's. She was behind, right? Yeah, she's one of the founders of it.
Producer Dave
00:28:31.210 - 00:28:31.930
She drove the thing.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:32.170 - 00:28:37.450
I didn't know that. So I'm like this fool that's out there, like, you know, hey, have you.
Producer Dave
00:28:37.450 - 00:28:40.810
Heard of this website? Let me explain it to you.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:40.810 - 00:29:29.260
Well, no, I knew that. I knew that she was on there and that she was featured or that Wild Rye was. I just didn't know that she was the one who did it.
So anyway, so may I call it of there? But so, but to answer your question, I am actually going to go with Po Campo. So Po Campo is led by the indefatigable Maria Boosted, who is just.
She's the best.
But produces these really thoughtfully designed bags for urban cyclists that then transition from a bike to a backpack or to a tote or those sorts of things. So you know, attaches maybe to pan to panniers that turn into a backpack, whatever baskets.
Lots of really interesting, fun, colorful products for mainly targeted at women, but also men. They have a great kids line as well. So Po Campo, really fun brand.
Colin True
00:29:29.580 - 00:29:30.580
All right, Dave, who you got?
Producer Dave
00:29:30.580 - 00:30:03.410
Oh, I'm, you know, I went through the lot of them and I want you to know I landed on this before I knew its backstory. Hot Salad bicycles. Come on, it's a great name. Hot Salad. That's right. They are just so. It's one of the few women owned bike builders, frame builders.
They really kind of simple anodized colorations. What is it Cycling weekly called them? Equal parts industrial and jewel. Like, I mean they're just simple, clean and beautiful.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:03.730 - 00:30:04.610
They're beautiful.
Producer Dave
00:30:05.170 - 00:30:26.450
Yeah.
And this is the description, this is what they hope for with their brand and company that this bicycle will give you the shit eating grin and tear inducing laughter that the community and space you find as a result of writing becomes an incredible core memory that people. That's a mission statement right there.
Colin True
00:30:26.530 - 00:30:28.970
That's a car sideline. That is frickin right there.
Producer Dave
00:30:28.970 - 00:30:42.620
That is awesome. And of course they are. Of course. I would be remiss to point out they're based here in town in Portland. Of course they are.
But yeah, and Hot Sapo, baby. Come on.
Colin True
00:30:42.620 - 00:30:44.140
Hot Salad's a great name.
Producer Dave
00:30:44.140 - 00:30:44.580
Yeah.
Colin True
00:30:45.780 - 00:32:01.430
All right, I'm going with BFF Coffees, which is led by Tawny and Mary Steinky. I hope I got their name correctly. Stinky. Stinky.
They believe that life is too short to have a bad cup of coffee, which is something that I also believe in. They roast and ship their own beans direct to your home.
And after reading about the brand and their product on the women Led Wednesday website, I ordered up some of their light roasted Brazilian beans to try myself. So I'll report back in the future, let you know how the BFF Coffee was. But yeah, little coffee delivery service there by, by, by Tawny and Mary.
Yeah, so listen, we're heading into the, the, the era, the time of year when we shop a lot, head over to womenled Wednesday.com and support the founders over there. A lot of, I mean again, 18 pages of brand. There's a lot of stuff on there. Check it out and support those brands for our main story today.
Last week, SGB reported that Sierra added 14 new stores in Q3 and now operates 141 locations in the U.S. the Marmax division of TJX, which includes TJ Maxx, Marshalls and Sierra also reported a 6% year over year growth. Sierra doesn't report separately, so we don't know how they show up in that combined number.
But with the continued growth of stores and consistent TJX financial growth, do you believe it's safe to say Sierra is doing pretty well financially?
Eoin Comerford
00:32:01.670 - 00:32:47.110
Absolutely. The TJX folks, they are smart merchants, believe me and clearly they have found a format that's working. They're just going to continue.
Once you get model that prototype, that store, you just then start printing them out basically. And to give you sort of a relative scale here, the 141 stores adds up to 2.9 million square feet. Okay, so it's a little over 20,000ft per store.
REI has 195 stores and they have, they're in kind of the 26,000 square feet range, a little bit bigger. So they total about 5 million square feet. So what we're talking about now is Sierra's footprint is almost 60% the footprint of REI.
Colin True
00:32:47.190 - 00:32:57.750
How does that, how does that make you reflect on Sierra? Like what that comparison of the size, like, is it an advantage for Sierra?
Is that something that as you look ahead like that becomes more of a threat and we're going to get into. Well, it just shows part of this in a second.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:57.750 - 00:33:17.920
It just shows that kind of volume that they've got to be doing at the, in those stores now. I don't think they're doing the, you know, $500 a square foot or whatever that REI is, but they're doing some money in there.
They're well over a billion dollars by now with what they have out there. So, yeah, I would say it's a meaningful business.
Colin True
00:33:18.800 - 00:33:41.140
Okay, well, we haven't talked about Sierra in a minute, so when we saw these latest numbers, we decided that a field trip was in order. So unfortunately, I don't have a Sierra near my home, but both Dave and Owen do. So they ventured out this week to check out their respective Sierras.
So Owen, let's start with you. In 2024, you predicted a Sierra slowdown. These numbers obviously don't support that prediction.
So what did you discover when you visited your local Sierra?
Eoin Comerford
00:33:41.140 - 00:35:04.310
No, I majorly booted that one. Yeah.
So my prediction at the time was based on the assumption that the rapid growth that they had seen was because of all these closeouts that were coming out of the outdoor industry being so over inventoried in 23 and 24.
But now having revisited a store and I've been in the stores before, but visiting this store this week, it was like, oh, I get it basically, really the specialty brand close as today, it's probably just normalized back to where it was, but it's maybe 10% of the product in the store is from like what you would think of as a specialty outdoor brand. Right. The vast, vast majority is coming from made to order, smu, private brand, whatever you want to call it.
Outdoorsy type brands like a free country or Jerry or brands owned by the licensing houses, like authentic brands type of stuff, Spyder, Volcom, Hurley, all those kinds of things. That's where it's coming from.
And actually on my LinkedIn post this week that was confirmed by an ex TJ Maxx buyer that it is primarily private label type stuff along with the fact that their customer base is hugely female. Even so, Sierra we're talking about here, very heavily female, which does explain the huge section that is dedicated to scented candles.
So that mystery has been solved.
Colin True
00:35:05.190 - 00:35:08.150
Were they pumped when you showed up? Like, oh my God, they could singlieri's here.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:08.550 - 00:35:26.070
Let's just say that I don't think the people that work there are big rock fight listeners. Also, I'm not sure they could answer the question about like what tent should I buy? Not the least of the reasons, because they don't have any tents.
But yeah, I just don't know. I was just gonna say, did you.
Producer Dave
00:35:26.070 - 00:37:21.070
Even see a tent? I was surpr by how little of like kind of outdoor equipment there really was.
There were some selected items, but it was really lights, maybe some dehydrated food, a little bit, you know, pillowy type of things. But boy, there was really. I was struck by how un outdoorsy it felt.
It was really more a home goods meets the apparel section of the ski swap, right where it's just loaded up. I did count six 30 foot racks of women's outerwear and eight 30 foot racks of men's outerwear. Now that's just outerwear.
That's not casual, that's not activewear, that's not clearance. That is just straight up water resistant ish, you know, jackets and some pants. And it's an impressive array, you know, in terms of that much.
And like you said, the brand thing, totally spot on. It's mostly the house brands for, for me, Carhartt, Kill Tech, L.L. bean, Spider, those were the brands.
And then some, like you said, Hurley was in the equipment section for helmets. Yes, for helmets. Yeah. Other thing, like. Yeah, like, yeah. So that was kind of crazy.
Thought the best buy There was the third, the Burton three pack of hats for 17 bucks. Like that was just like oh my gosh. But yeah, the, the apparel section really.
And then you said like the choice brands were those little treasures, you know, I saw, I found a Phililo piece in the women's section, right. There was a couple Cotopaxi items, some black diamond, you know, hidden in there. Where was the men? There was some Helly Hansen, you know, so it was.
But you had to dig and look for those and get around. Again, like you said, most of just comes from about four or five types of brands.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:21.150 - 00:37:46.830
And, and I would say I, I didn't really see evidence of like an smu, you know, from, from a particular brand like the, like even in the footwear. For example, there, there was, there was a keen boot, keen hiking boot in, in the women's section, but it was one particular color.
And I don't know, maybe that color was an smu, but I Think it was more likely a closeout. And they just got rid of this one color and sold them all of them.
Producer Dave
00:37:47.600 - 00:38:08.160
Yeah, I saw the same thing with Merrell having that type of product where it was the same color it was pulled on. What is it, an end cap, you know, kind of kind of thing. But yeah, the. The shoe department definitely felt more Kmart, Kenny.
Kind of energy with the types of styles that were there, too. There were very few.
Colin True
00:38:08.160 - 00:38:10.960
Kmart, Kenny. There's a reference for our listener.
Chris DeMakes
00:38:11.280 - 00:38:11.680
Right.
Producer Dave
00:38:11.920 - 00:38:30.890
But there were very few of those true treasures that you found. I did find some scarpa approach shoes that were kind of buried. Those were in the women's section. Those kind of stood out.
But no, it is the place to score your. Hey, dudes. Or your crocs. Right? That is. No. Oh, and anything with fur in it. Yes.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:30.890 - 00:38:31.210
Right.
Producer Dave
00:38:31.210 - 00:38:56.870
And it's probably time of year, but, boy, you could go from the sandal, the slide to the midtop, to the shearling slippers to the ski, every. Yeah, you've got it. No doubt about it. And Colin, I do want to report back. You, too. That you could score. You could.
You could score some puffin drinkware, but just in some block colors of sleeping bags. There wasn't a lot of creative choice there. It was just kind of the one that did.
Colin True
00:38:57.190 - 00:38:58.070
That was the one that did it.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:58.070 - 00:39:04.830
If you want to hit the backpacking trail with some really nice aluminum wheel luggage, we. We've got you covered. That's true.
Producer Dave
00:39:04.830 - 00:39:20.150
They did have a. Did have a. I. I will just dig. Go. Kind of keep moving from here. What I was impressed with, I mean, obviously, there's so much of the. The.
The clearance piece, the glove wall, and the hat wall. Right. Which they had.
Colin True
00:39:20.150 - 00:39:21.110
You were impressed with that?
Producer Dave
00:39:21.110 - 00:39:45.260
Yeah, yeah. Because it's all the brands.
Well, I will say the sock wall, every brand you can think of, all different sizes, from running to, you know, to the crew to the ski, the over the calf, all different price points from, you know, single digits to double digits for. For nicer stuff. Smart wool, of course, represented. They had some of the highest price points on the sock wall, about 14, 15 bucks.
Colin True
00:39:45.900 - 00:39:47.500
That's a pretty good deal for some smartw.
Producer Dave
00:39:47.660 - 00:40:04.140
It is. That's right. But everybody else was kind of down or you had your multi packs. I will say. And I don't know if this is store specific.
What's the one brand of sock I didn't see, to my surprise? Darn tough. That's right. They weren't on the sock wall.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:04.140 - 00:40:05.420
Didn't see them. And Interesting.
Producer Dave
00:40:05.420 - 00:40:31.540
No? Yeah, every form. So but the sock wall and the how. Oh and the glove wall. Just though in terms of your.
The amount of brands covered, not all of them were just licensing. There was a heavy amount of just. I licensed a brand and put it on a glove. But if you are looking for.
And again this is kind of the idea too where we're at this age of where things work well enough for what we need. You can get a really decent pair of gloves or a hat, you know.
Colin True
00:40:31.540 - 00:40:32.900
Well, that's what I was gonna ask about. Basics.
Producer Dave
00:40:32.900 - 00:40:35.980
Yeah, the basics. It's really, really a good place.
Colin True
00:40:36.140 - 00:42:10.530
Even accessories. I remember like shantae shopping at one and picking up some Dr. Bronner's before heading out on a trip once. And I just think like that's.
And that's kind of what I want to get it segue into the next part of the conversation because I think I find it a fascinating thing to think about. And it reminds me hearing you guys talk about this. There used to be a real.
And there might still be a fair amount of almost like Army Navy outdoor stores which were very much I missed. Those are great, right? Not like the gear shop rip Andy and Bess. Right.
Just not quite a full on outdoor store, but a lot of outdoor stuff and a little bit of that vibe of like you're not quite sure what you're gonna find when you walk in here. And it sounds a lot like what you guys are describing. You know, my hot take here is I think the, the specialty retail community.
I mean they honestly should embrace Sierra because if you're a GOA dealer and an REI shows up in your town, I mean that's basically a big box store masquerading as a specialty retailer. Right? But if a Sierra shows up next door, I mean think about what that Sierra can do for your community. Right?
Can service the entry level people who will eventually find the way to my store as they go along on their outdoor journey. Outdoor journey like.
And then like I mentioned for the veteran adventurers, they might care about getting a deal or picking up an essential or a basic. But I think Sierra, based on what we're talking about is more of a threat to REI and to anyone.
I think their ability to deal with unsold inventory and given their cost structure, they can make and procure things that isn't a closeout. I don't know it's going to be. I think it is more good than bad for the space while also being more of a threat to REI than specialty.
So I'm Curious what you guys think about Sierra and their place in the sort of outdoor retail ecosystem.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:11.080 - 00:42:31.280
Well, I would say first of all I agree that they're more of a threat to rei. Also on this pod, I railed against this whole affordability issue or rather the affordability crisis. So I get where you're coming from there.
Although I might argue that there isn't really the equipment here to get a lot of people outdoors. But what I definitely don't agree with.
Colin True
00:42:31.280 - 00:42:34.520
Get you started at least maybe I mean, hiking.
Producer Dave
00:42:35.320 - 00:42:44.970
Yeah, Well, I was just going to say what it means to be outdoors. If you talking about clothes that are going to keep you warm and dry from head to toe, you could do that.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:45.370 - 00:42:59.130
Yeah, you could. What I don't agree with is that it should be the industry's outlet channel or that the industry needs to support this channel.
The industry definitely shouldn't be producing SMUs for this channel.
Colin True
00:42:59.130 - 00:42:59.450
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:59.450 - 00:44:12.120
I mean, so you know, the way I look at closeouts is that the outdoor brands should be be giving those closeouts to the retailers that are supporting their full price business as a way to help round out their margins and help to support them.
Now I think part of the challenge there is that within the brands they look at closeout potentially as being, you know, cannibalistic to the open to buy that these retailers have for the full price business. So like, I don't know, we don't want to mix these things up here. So we're going to, you know, divert it here into this other channel.
I just think that that is, it's not, it's not the way to think about it. You want to think about it in the way of. No, no.
Make my retailer healthier by allowing them to access these close out goods so they can then come back and buy more full price. Right. So a healthier overall ecosystem. The other thing I would say is you can treat it as a bit of a carriage, right.
So it is a privilege, not a reich that you get access to close ad.
And so if you're one of our better retailers, you buy into all of our programs, you do our training, you abide by map, you pay on time, all these things, then you get access to closeouts which then helps your business. So I just think we need to keep it more in the family than, than to include services here.
Producer Dave
00:44:12.120 - 00:44:15.680
How many of those are closeouts because they didn't sell in the channel in the first place?
Colin True
00:44:16.160 - 00:44:59.710
That's what I mean. Right? I mean it's just, it's a little bit of a. Says easy does hard thing. I agree with you in principle. Like offer it to your.
The people you want to support the most. But if it's like, if you're sitting there, like depending on the timing what you have in inventory, maybe it's a dud color or something like that.
And here's Sierra saying, I'll write you a PO today and you can unload all of that inventory versus, versus trying to piecemeal it out to a lot of individual shops. That's a hard thing to do and to get them to. And there might be somebody out there to buy into it.
And I'd actually be curious from brands who kind of have dabbled in this world, do they do that? Do they kind of offer it up? Hey, guys, we have this style and this size and this color. Who wants it?
And then maybe when it's like, ah, that's a dog, we don't want it, that's when the phone call gets made to the queen in Sierra.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:59.790 - 00:45:06.260
I think what happens is that those. The. I've lived this life, right? What's happened is the brands go out.
Colin True
00:45:06.260 - 00:45:07.020
You've gotten that call.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:07.020 - 00:45:42.560
Oh, no. The brands go out with their, you know, their, their DM list or whatever and it's, hey, it's here's 25% off and, you know, go at it, right?
It's like, okay, cool. But like, you know, it's 25% off. Is.
Is that a great deal when we know that you brand yourself are about to go like off price on these goods and your first markdown is going to be 30 or 40% off. You know, I'm already underwater at that number. It is. Isn't that great? The reality of what's happening is is that Sierra's at 70% off, right?
That's how they're making their money. If the brands are willing to offer that product at 70 off to their retailers, they would not have a problem moving it.
Colin True
00:45:42.640 - 00:45:57.880
Dave, it's just from your point of view, I mean, you've been kind of the roller coaster in your community with next adventure closing and now looks like they might be coming back. You know, how does Sierra fit into your local REI vacating downtown? Right. I mean, it's kind of an interesting retail situation in Portland.
Having visited Sierra this week, what's your.
Producer Dave
00:45:57.880 - 00:46:45.360
Take on, well, you different apples to oranges. Like we were just talking about sunlight and Cody. It's such a small town. Everybody's grouped together.
This Sierra is miles and miles and miles from a specialty outdoor store. So they're not really competing they are absolutely near an rei. So I don't necessarily see the same consumer crossover piece.
If anything, I see it as an entry gateway to some of our brands. Right. That people will discover and see.
And maybe they don't normally come across cost because of that, you know, again, that kind of looking for that value in that performance piece. So, yeah, it was, it was an interesting.
I like, I, I was the, the most outdoorsy person in there and I was wearing a rock fight jacket and I was not mobbed by people in their recognition.
Colin True
00:46:45.600 - 00:46:49.360
All right, you're out. Sierra, we don't like you. You don't listen to the podcast. Come on.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:49.920 - 00:46:58.380
But I think that's a great, great point, Dave, is that Sierras are going to tend to be located in the same kind of suburban strip malls that have REIs.
Chris DeMakes
00:46:58.460 - 00:46:58.740
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:58.740 - 00:47:04.220
And the REI is going to be in the Outlaw as a beautiful building and the Acer is going to be in the. In the strip mall.
Producer Dave
00:47:04.540 - 00:47:12.219
Oh, definitely. I mean, other than the wide arrangement of tumblers that you could get from every brand, of course. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:12.219 - 00:47:15.140
Oh, my gosh. So many Stanley tumblers.
Colin True
00:47:15.140 - 00:47:15.500
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:17.900 - 00:47:22.370
If you were looking for any evidence that that bubble had burst. Holy crap. Crap.
Producer Dave
00:47:22.690 - 00:47:27.250
That was it. That was it. But they had everybody. To be clear, there was. Everybody was present.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:29.090 - 00:47:41.610
At least in my store, they had Yeti, but it was all one style. It was their Rambler 35 tumbler. Basically, their version of the Stanley Tumbler was the only one that was there in every color.
Producer Dave
00:47:41.610 - 00:48:06.110
By the way, like I said, I agree with you that the REI would be more of a problem. I mean, look, the entryway. The first thing you saw was a display of Jody's caramelized popcorn. Right. In tin buckets.
Like, that was the first thing you saw. And then behind that was a cigar holding ashtray for your chair. Like, what does that have to do with anything? I don't know, but it's definitely, you.
Colin True
00:48:06.110 - 00:48:07.190
Know, I got a good deal on it.
Producer Dave
00:48:07.190 - 00:48:12.510
Tis the season. Oh, my gosh. Yes. You could get the Spider base layer set for $17.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:14.830 - 00:48:17.710
I just like, oh, my gosh.
Producer Dave
00:48:17.870 - 00:48:21.710
Okay, so Spider was way over the top, wasn't it? Yeah.
Colin True
00:48:21.990 - 00:48:31.150
Like, when we're handing out our awards at the end of the year, do we give Spider the it's amazing you're still in business award? I mean, how long has Spider been just aching to close up shop? It's been amazing.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:31.150 - 00:48:35.510
We may want to hurry with that award, Colin. Otherwise it might be posture.
Chris DeMakes
00:48:35.910 - 00:48:36.550
I don't know.
Producer Dave
00:48:37.910 - 00:48:45.670
It's the Wile E. Coyote drop fast award. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, oh my God, how in the world.
Colin True
00:48:52.320 - 00:50:45.810
All right, guys, time for the parting shot, which is brought to you by Garage Grown Gear. There are new items constantly being added over in Garage Grown Gear.
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And for my parting shot today, A couple of weeks ago, a friend of the Rock fight, Darren Josie, put up a post on LinkedIn which lovingly, lovingly began with the phrase got to throw a rock here. You know who loves an homage more than me? No one.
We went on and he went on to call out trade shows for putting out calls for educators to come on their shows and sit on panels, moderate conversations, or simply just present on their personal expertise and then not be compensated for their effort or even have their expenses covered by the show. So it may actually be surprising to some of you listening to this, but Darren was spot on in his commentary.
Back in the age of peak outdoor retailer, it was seen as a perk just to be at the show, no matter the cost.
So if you didn't work at a brand or a retailer that would pay for your attendance, the thinking was that even if you had to incur the expense of attending on your own, the high upside was enough to justify it. And that mentality has kind of carried over into our more modern, more diminished trade show scene.
And I think we may have even said on one of our Switchback recap pods last summer that the show should have spent more money covering the expense of more media representatives to cover the show. So Darren in his post called out both Switchback and Outdoor Retailer and was right to do so.
And here's the value of speaking up, folks, because Diversified Communications, the parent of Tre and yes, we are being we are going to that show, but they're not paying us to say this, but they had a conversation with Darren and Teresa Baker and they announced last week that Switchback event will now offer speaker packages which may include honorarium travel, stipend and or complimentary housing.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:45.890 - 00:51:00.950
And actually also Colin recently with Raccoon Media's announcement about taking over the management of the ISPO show next year. They said they're going to be investing a million dollars in content and educational elements of the show. So they definitely get it.
Colin True
00:51:00.950 - 00:51:30.150
That's Amazing. And all of this has happened in a matter of weeks because Darren shined a light on something that we probably should have been doing anyway.
So back to the email that opened this episode. Let's remember that it's important to be loud about our beliefs and people like Owen Comerford speak out about things.
He's doing it for good reason, because good things actually do happen every once in a while if you speak up. So that's my parting shot. I can't believe that happened that quick. If I'm being honest.
The fact that they had a call and then they're like, yeah, we were wrong. We should be doing this, and then they just kind of made that change is pretty, pretty sad.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:30.630 - 00:51:43.480
I actually, I didn't see Darren's piece, but I saw the outreach from them for speakers and I had the same kind of reaction, but I didn't do anything with it, so. So just fucking kudos to Darren for stepping up there.
Producer Dave
00:51:43.480 - 00:51:44.000
Love it.
Colin True
00:51:44.960 - 00:52:07.160
All right, everyone, that's the show for today. We want your emails. Send them to myrockfightmail.com and the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LOC.
Today's episode produced by producer David Karstad with art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. For Owen Comerford, I'm Colin True. Thank you for listening. And to take us out like he always does, it's Kristen Makes with the Rock Fight Fight song.
We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Producer Dave
00:52:07.160 - 00:52:07.560
Boom.
Chris DeMakes
00:52:07.560 - 00:53:03.920
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Roc Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big fights about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews and dear slaves, aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock flight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock flight Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock flight. Rock fight. I.