Reviewing Trail Etiquette, Killian's New Project & The Personal Cost Of Being Rescued
- colin7931
- Aug 13
- 52 min read
Today on the show Colin and Shawnté get into the following topics that have come out of the outdoor adventure community!
A British hiker ignores the signs and is now on the hook for his $16,000 rescue. Should people have to pay to get help? (06:44)
A NY man was arrested for leaving his 9 year old in the VIP tent of the Lake Placid Ironman while he went out and competed in the race. Did Ironman also submit an invoice for their babysitting fees? (14:57)
Killian Jornet has a new project... because of course he does. (21:35)
The Rock Fight's Lightning Round: The fastest 3 minutes in outdoor news! Antarctica tourism, a Russian chairlift collapses, and long distance mushroom boating! (30:56)
Let's talk about trail etiquette...because it seems that not enough people know the rules these days. (33:23)
Lastly, for The Parting Shot, Colin declares his now eternal position on e-mountain bikes. Brace yourself... the rocks are coming in fast for this one. (53:52)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.720 - 00:02:33.880
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Chris DeMakes
00:02:33.960 - 00:02:54.280
Be A shout floor Hero Endeavor's here to stay. Shop Flock Hero Sampu is the way. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Colin True
00:02:55.480 - 00:03:10.020
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cow and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True, and joining me today, this September, she's going to Middle Earth.
It's Shawnté Salabert.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:10.580 - 00:03:12.060
Where am I going and why am I going?
Colin True
00:03:12.060 - 00:03:15.379
You're going to Middle Earth. I think we need to do it. I think September, October, November.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:15.540 - 00:03:16.740
This is our Lord of the Rings.
Colin True
00:03:17.220 - 00:03:19.580
Lord of the Rings trilogy. Let's go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:19.580 - 00:03:24.420
We're finally gonna right that wrong that has just been burrowed in your soul since I told you I've never seen them.
Colin True
00:03:24.580 - 00:03:40.440
Well, you know, you were telling me how you were shopping at, like, a gem shop. I feel like there's enough, like, mystical, like, fantasticalness in your life. There is, and you're. That.
That will not only resonate on the pop culture front, but also on the, you know, I don't know what I'm trying to say.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:40.440 - 00:03:50.440
The Sean Aston front, I think the Sean Astin front. You could have sold me there. Also, it's very green, right? I mean, it's set in New Zealand, is it not? I mean, it is Middle Earth, right?
Colin True
00:03:50.440 - 00:04:04.620
Well, Tolkien's whole thing was, you know, like, nature versus, you know, industrial industry and, like, was a whole, like, under, you know, the World War II, the influence of that and versus the natural world. So it was a whole, like, run theme there that I think will absolutely resonate with you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:04.700 - 00:04:11.980
Okay, how, like, what is the time investment of this? Am I. So am I basically going to be renting a room from you guys for a month?
Colin True
00:04:13.260 - 00:04:19.620
Well, I would say we probably. Maybe we. You do the first two on your own, then you come down for the third one. Otherwise, you know, I've got to put.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:19.620 - 00:04:23.020
In the time up front. And then number three is where it all comes together.
Colin True
00:04:23.500 - 00:04:33.180
It does. And I think, like, any man, if that's the case, if it doesn't work out, fine. But it would be a lot to say. No, no, no, no.
You need to drive to San Diego three times because I'm not doing that. Yeah, exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:33.660 - 00:04:43.990
Is there, like, Stipend, like, a rock fight meeting? Is this our retreat? Like, our rock fight retreat? Should we zoom in like, all the other guys and they can just. They can zoom in with us?
Colin True
00:04:44.630 - 00:04:52.630
My kids do. Do watch alongs, like, remotely over, like, you know, over, like, FaceTime and stuff like that. Should we.
Should we set up a zoom while we watch the movie? Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:52.710 - 00:04:58.070
Yeah. I mean, I have a feeling all of them will be too busy doing the things they do in their regular lives to join us.
Colin True
00:04:58.070 - 00:05:00.710
But Schnitzman will join. He's a big Lord of the Rings guy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:00.790 - 00:05:03.730
That makes sense. I feel that this is thrilling.
Colin True
00:05:04.050 - 00:05:12.410
Speaking of all that, let's get into some programming reminders because that's a. That's. We're going to talk about open container here, right? So come back to the Rock Fight this Friday.
You know who's going to be on the show this Friday? Shantae.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:12.410 - 00:05:12.690
Who?
Colin True
00:05:13.250 - 00:05:14.210
Justin Houseman.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:14.210 - 00:05:17.090
Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's so exciting. Is he going to be drinking beer?
Colin True
00:05:17.570 - 00:05:28.090
Probably. He's coming on the show. He's going to talk about what he's been up for the last few months. He's been working with Save the Redwoods.
We're going to have a whole conservation conversation. But what's. What's going on on the network? Speaking of open containers, Shantae.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:28.090 - 00:05:30.930
Well, you know what? Did you miss Monday's episode of the Rock Fight?
Colin True
00:05:31.090 - 00:05:31.770
I hope not.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:31.770 - 00:05:35.650
I hope not. How about Tuesday's newest open container, soon.
Colin True
00:05:35.650 - 00:05:36.930
To feature Shante Salibair?
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:36.930 - 00:05:49.250
Oh, my goodness. Well, hopefully you guys didn't miss those. They were pretty great. But also, did you know that we are launching a new show with. And Colin wrote this.
It says our own Shantae Salibare. That's me. It's me.
Colin True
00:05:49.490 - 00:05:50.850
I like hearing you say your own name.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:52.370 - 00:06:05.950
My mom would be like, you're saying it wrong. Yeah, there's. We are launching a new show Gear Abby. I'm going to be answering all of your burning questions about.
About outdoor people, places, products and pastimes. So send us your questions at.
Colin True
00:06:06.110 - 00:06:07.550
And your sponsorship dollars.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:07.870 - 00:06:25.430
Yes. And especially your sponsorship dollars. Send us your questions about sponsoring the show to myrockfight gmail.com I.
There is no topic off limits as long as it is tangentially related to the outdoors. So the takeover of outdoor podcast here in the Rock Fight Podcast Network is happening. Colin.
Colin True
00:06:25.430 - 00:06:26.350
It is happening.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:26.680 - 00:06:29.480
You are thrilled. Make sure y' all follow and listen to all of our shows.
Colin True
00:06:30.040 - 00:06:47.040
And lastly, sign up for our newsletter by heading therockfight Co. That's called News from the Front comes out every week. Follow us on Instagram to get video clips from all of our podcasts.
And then also be sure to follow this podcast and all the podcasts on whatever podcast app you are using right now. All right, let's talk about some Outdoorsy stuff.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:47.040 - 00:06:47.480
Yes.
Colin True
00:06:48.440 - 00:07:02.050
Today's opening shot, presented by Lem's Footwear, maker of the 100% vegan and 100% comfortable Primal Zen. By the way, I endorse that statement. It's a very comfortable shoe. If you've not tried the Primals in from Lem's, I'm about to say you should. Yeah.
Are you?
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:02.050 - 00:07:09.210
Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to try it out. I. I've loved my switchback so much that I am excited to see something with a closed toe.
Colin True
00:07:10.010 - 00:07:10.530
There you go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:10.530 - 00:07:12.010
We're gonna go take some journeys together.
Colin True
00:07:13.610 - 00:07:24.740
So first up today, per cnn, a British hiker who had ignored trail closure signs and had had to be rescued while hiking in the Italian Dolomites. The Dolomites. Dolomites.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:24.740 - 00:07:30.380
Dolomites. I always say Dolomites, but maybe that's because I'm a fan of 70s films.
Colin True
00:07:32.540 - 00:07:53.880
So this hiker has been fined $16,000 to pay for his own rescue.
According to authorities, in order for the 60 year old hiker to end up where he was rescued, he had to have passed at least four signs, crawled around a barrier, and was told by other hikers that he should turn around and hike back with them. Instead, he found himself calling for rescue from the Berte Via Ferrata. Berte. Berte. I'm not sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:53.880 - 00:07:54.960
Saliberte.
Colin True
00:07:55.200 - 00:08:07.200
Yeah, Salah Berte, Via Ferrata. That'd be what an honor.
But without and without the ability to provide his exact location, there was rockfall raining down around him and apparently he's in the middle of a landslide. So well done, sir.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:07.280 - 00:08:09.800
That's so much. Oh my goodness.
Colin True
00:08:09.800 - 00:08:12.000
What are your thoughts about reading this one there, Shantay?
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:12.000 - 00:09:05.080
Well, first of all, just you saying all of that, it does remind me of a time. So back probably 17, 16 years ago now, there was this website still exists called Modern Hiker. It was based in SoCal. Yeah, you know, Modern Hikers.
So they used to have a message board. And I remember going up on a trail, Mount Low. Like Mount Low. Fire road, something Toll road.
And there were closed signs that I just did not pay attention to whatsoever. And my friend and I were gonna hike a loop back there and we just kept encountering rock slides.
And finally we encountered one that we had to sort of grab a branch and swing over, Tarzan style. And when we got back to the trailhead, then we saw the signs, we're like, we're idiots. And we wrote about it.
This is the part we wrote about it on the Modern Hiker message. Board. And then Casey Shriner, modern hiker himself, was like, hey, if you ever want to go hiking, I'm like, why would you want to hike with us?
Colin True
00:09:06.280 - 00:09:07.480
Ignoring clothes signs?
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:07.480 - 00:09:08.040
Yeah, buddy.
Colin True
00:09:08.040 - 00:09:38.100
I had a similar thing. It's. And I wasn't. The thing about this is so funny is, apparently there were a lot of signs for this guy. But I remember I was living in Colorado.
We went on a mountain bike ride, and we're a buddy of mine, and we're just buzzing on this trail. We'd never rid it before. This is just outside of Boulder. We're like, this is great. Why haven't we ridden here before?
Someone starts yelling at us, like, get off the trail. We're like, you mountain biking, Rul? Turns out, no, no, no. It was a hike. We had missed the sign that there was no bikes allowed on this trail.
And people are more like, hey, dude, you're not supposed to be here. And of course, we're like, no. You know, but like, oh, oops. Sorry about that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:38.100 - 00:09:58.660
This is how we learn as baby outdoors. Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, Casey is one of my very, very close friends now, and. And, yeah, we've actually.
We actually went on that summer to hike Mount Whitney together, so. And we had a great time.
But, yeah, I think, you know, first, there were a ton of incidents that happened in the Alps and the Dolomites over, like, a month period.
Colin True
00:09:58.660 - 00:10:00.880
I think it was June story that was a little darker.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:00.880 - 00:10:36.710
June to July. It was 83 people, I believe died. Not just like, that's crazy.
And there were 20 more rescue incidents in the Alps and the Dolomites in this time frame this summer. So apparently there was a lot of really wacky weather. My initial reaction other than that was just like, holy, $16,000 is a lot of money.
I did read that they charge less for rescues to EU citizens, which, of course, thanks to Brexit, this. This guy wasn't. Yeah, but. Yeah, I mean, I. I know. I know helicopters are pretty expensive to operate, but. Holy. That's a lot of money, right?
Colin True
00:10:37.910 - 00:10:53.150
This is definitely not the first time someone's had to pay for their own rescue. I remember I was actually living in New Hampshire when they passed the law there that if, like, you are.
It is deemed that you are not prepared to be out in, like, the White Mountains when you. At the time of your rescue, you will be forced to pay for that because you're putting other people at risk.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:53.150 - 00:10:53.510
Right.
Colin True
00:10:54.310 - 00:11:03.090
To that point, I'm like, I'm kind of pro finding individuals for dumb rescues. I'M sure there are circumstances where it could swung around, but I don't know. How do you feel about that?
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:03.170 - 00:12:14.410
Well, I mean, I really do think this is kind of an ongoing debate because you, excuse me, you've got, you know, one faction that says, hey, would less people who really need help call for help if they thought they were going to get in trouble, get fined? Would more people be seriously injured, die in the back country if we started charging for rescue? So that's kind of here in the States.
That's sort of the line that continues to exist is like, well, we'd rather take the side of let's just let people call if they need it and not charge them so that they will actually reach out. But on one hand, this dude just passed all these. It was willful ignorance on his play, right? Like he willfully did this.
Other hikers told him to turn around. So he was clearly too special for that. So I don't really feel that bad for him.
But I do think we need to figure out, like, where would we draw the line? So, you know, are you find something like a mandatory donation to the local search and rescue operation.
If you ignore a closure and get into trouble, that's fine with me. But a blanket charge for anybody who asks for a rescue, which would include people who just have accidents, medical conditions, things like that.
I'm not so cool with that. Like, I really do think, yeah, how do you tie it into people's willful, like, flouting of the rules, their willful stupidity?
Colin True
00:12:15.050 - 00:13:03.090
Well, and the reason why I was okay with it when I lived in New Hampshire at the time is because it's well documented. Like, why Mount Washington is a quote unquote dangerous mountain, right?
It's because it's very accessible and people like roll up there without really knowing what they're getting into.
And people go up there in the winter and it's like you and stuff that they should not have on or stuff that they should have brought that they did not bring. And at that point, you are putting other people at risk. This guy's in the middle of a landslide. They just send a helicopter to pick him up.
Think about the people flying the helicopter. That's not a regular situation for just being zipping around in a helicopter to go and pick this guy up.
But yeah, if you're in trouble, you should be able to get help.
And I guess it is almost like it comes down to the decision makers of who's saying, oh, no, you got to pay for it or you don't that's like a really hard position.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:03.170 - 00:13:33.590
How do you draw? Like, how do you make it really obvious? I'd be really curious to hear from people who volunteer for search and rescue and. And do that.
Like, what is your perspective? Because I think that there are some people. I think the. The line, the.
The through line, the party line here in the States generally is we don't charge for rescue because we don't want people to not call.
But I have to feel like there are some search and rescue folks who feel otherwise because of some of the circumstances they've experienced or like, the heard of. So I'd be curious. Email myrockfightmail.com and let us know.
Colin True
00:13:34.070 - 00:13:41.870
Yeah, please. This is one where, again, we never heard back from anybody. What was the one we really wanted? Oh, the mules, the running mules, the Strava mules.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:41.870 - 00:13:42.790
Nobody's doing that.
Colin True
00:13:42.950 - 00:13:57.750
No, but there's got to be some search and rescue people out there, right? So, yeah, please reach out. I would really like to hear that. Your perspective on it, because this.
There's a gray area here for sure, but I'm sure there's some times when it's just like you're like, oh, no, no, we should be charging these people who aren't getting charged and vice versa.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:57.750 - 00:14:22.690
So, no, if you haven't. You know, speaking of search and rescue, Brie Lo used to be a search and rescue personnel, and she's written two fantastic books.
One of them is called Found. I can't remember the name of the other one offhand. I've read them both. Dead man and Pickets. They're both fantastic books.
So if you're interested at all in sort of what. What search and rescue people do and what the reality is out there. She's got a very specific take on it, but it's. They're both great reads.
Colin True
00:14:23.010 - 00:14:34.130
Maybe she'd be a good guess on opener or Gear Abbey or Gear Abbey or Gary Abbey. Gear Abbey. May want to know about this exciting new podcast coming soon to a podcast app near you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:34.130 - 00:14:37.050
I'd have Brian and be like, why are people stupid? Tell me everything.
Colin True
00:14:38.650 - 00:14:39.610
I love that question.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:40.250 - 00:14:42.810
It's just gonna be once an episode. Why are people stupid?
Colin True
00:14:43.290 - 00:14:45.930
That's a good segment name. Why are people stupid?
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:45.930 - 00:14:47.210
Terrible. It's terrible.
Colin True
00:14:47.370 - 00:14:49.410
This is the Modern Darwin Awards.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:49.410 - 00:14:51.250
We're saving that for the rock fight. That's.
Colin True
00:14:51.250 - 00:14:52.250
That's true.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:52.490 - 00:14:54.330
We are saving it for the bison touchers.
Colin True
00:14:54.650 - 00:14:56.610
That's a good point. That is a little bit more of a rock fight segment.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:56.610 - 00:14:57.150
Yeah. Yeah.
Colin True
00:14:57.150 - 00:15:38.010
All right, next story.
According to Syracuse.com last month a New York man was arrested at the Lake Placid Ironman after police received a complaint that he, quote, allegedly left his young son unattended while competing, end quote. The 44 year old man set off to compete in the Iron man while leaving his 9 year old son alone in the race's VIP tent for 10 hours.
Volunteers and Ironman staff noticed that the boy had been alone for a long time and upon realizing his father was competing, they contacted the authorities. The father has since been released but is expected back in court earlier this month. Was expected back earlier this month.
So this to me is like the darkest side of like the active outdoor sporting life that we as amateur enthusiasts pursue. Like what, what did you think when.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:38.010 - 00:16:24.950
You heard about this success at all costs?
Well, you know what I originally thought because we texted about it, but you know, my, my initial, like, my initial gut reaction was like, hey, I'm Jim. I'm a former school social worker with I, which I think nobody knows about me unless you've known me for a long time.
But I used to work in elementary school, then I worked at a middle school and we had the police there like every day. It was ridiculous. So I am generally against calling the police into a situation when there's an alternative solution.
So in my mind for this one, I was like, oh, the immediate solution was to go yank this jackass off the course and take him to his son. And as far as your question about sort of are your sort of thinking about this, is this the dark side of the sport?
So it's like somebody being so into their sport that they could just ditch their kit for 10 hours. I can't.
Colin True
00:16:25.750 - 00:16:27.110
Yeah, it makes me so mad.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:27.110 - 00:16:48.750
Like I've certainly trained my ass off for certain objectives or races and I've had to give things up though, to not go to those. You know, things come up in life. Life gets in the way. Attention needs to be elsewhere.
I just don't think for me a competition, these are all made up things that we've decided are important. A kid is not a made up thing. That's your real responsibility.
I mean, I want to know more about what you think about this because you're, you're a dad. Like what, what went through your head?
Colin True
00:16:50.100 - 00:17:41.280
Just kind of what you said. I mean, it's like there's the second.
I mean, there's stuff in my own life that I don't have to do with my kids where I've had to like, you know, either bail or reschedule.
Something or whatever when it comes to your kids, that especially young kids, there's a contract that you sign effectively when that person comes into the world that like you don't do like this, that that is the priority in front of you now. And this is.
I think it's almost worse because apparently there was like an older brother involved who was supposed to watch the kid who couldn't fulfill that obligation. And then the dad bought a VIP pass for the nine year old. Right. And, and I, I get what you're saying about the. The authorities.
I feel like I could kind of go with. I guess it depends on where was he on the course and their ability to get to him versus how long the kid had been waiting.
And you know how comfortable were the people who were in this tent, right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:41.280 - 00:17:42.920
Yeah. Because it's not their job. Sure.
Colin True
00:17:43.000 - 00:17:59.300
Of course there's a scenario where like, I totally would have been like, I'm calling the cops. Like, there's definitely a scenario where that happens. I agree with you that maybe that's not your knee jerk.
But I just, I'm trying to picture just these people sitting here going like, what's with the kid? Yeah, what's going on with the kid over there? Is he all right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:59.460 - 00:18:03.820
Is he disqualified? Did he try to race? Is he just gonna chill in the tent?
Colin True
00:18:03.820 - 00:18:47.970
Couldn't heck into the swim, kid. Yeah, but it's so. It makes me so mad. And there is a part of me too that is at the same time that is like, I don't know, I wasn't there.
There are definitely missing gaps in the story, but this gets pretty black or white pretty quick for me. Like, look, you know, especially when you find out that the big brother couldn't do it, it'. Hey, sorry, man. Guess what? Yeah.
You spent all that time training and that's when I go to.
Now this is the part of the outdoors that I don't like, when it's the people who are so serious about it that are so defined by it that I don't care if this has been your dream since you were a child, to go race in the Ironman Lake Placid. Too bad, dude. Go get your kid and schedule and register for next year. Yeah, you know what? You're fit.
You should be happy at how fit you are because you could do an Iron Man.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:47.970 - 00:18:48.250
Yeah.
Colin True
00:18:48.250 - 00:18:48.850
It's not enough.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:49.480 - 00:19:27.900
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, you know, just thinking about how, you know, think at least he deserves a ban if not a suspension from Ironman events at this point. Like, that's just such a Shitty thing to do to the people who work at the event, who are working for the event.
You know, they don't have their liability insurance, doesn't include babysitting services. So it's, you know, at the very least, super poor judgment. And I think that there should be some sort of repercussion for him.
I mean, I have to assume having the cops called on you is a pretty big enough repercussion dates. How's like, I think that's, he's probably good for now, but you know, also, he just. Yeah, what a wild.
Colin True
00:19:27.900 - 00:19:55.200
He has a court date. I mean, then they arrested.
It wasn't just like the cop going up and there, there was obviously a reason why they felt like they needed to do that, I would assume. I don't know. I, I, I just, you know, I want to think the best that, that, that people can come around, that they can learn from their mistakes.
But this makes it really hard for me to not just kind of connect dots that maybe aren't there about, like, what's this kid's life on regularly. If this is kind of what happens to him at the weekend when his dad wants to go do a tria. Oh, this was rough. This one got my blood boiling.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:55.200 - 00:20:05.440
So you don't think, what are you doing, man? You don't think the kid's gonna start getting into his own triathlons now? He's gonna be like, screw this beat you dad.
My dad abandoned me as a child and now I cannot run.
Colin True
00:20:06.720 - 00:20:09.760
See the 80s drug commercials I learned about watching you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:12.480 - 00:20:46.420
Oh, man. 80s drug commercials. 80s and early 90s. Like, there was a great one, I think, early 90s, about method meth, that the refrain is meth.
And my friend, when we were on the Colorado trail, my friend was singing it to me because we were both super low energy. He's like, I have a song for us.
In the whole commercial, you know, this PSA was all about how meth is so bad for you because it gives you energy to do your housework and all these other things. Oh, my God. So, yeah, we started singing just the refrain just as a pair of cyclists came around the corner. As we're like.
Colin True
00:20:48.980 - 00:21:00.240
Oh, a few days into our hike, we're already going insane, so just excuse us. That does make me want. Is that if that's kind of the takeaway from a lot of those PSAs, the PSAs don't really exist, like, the way they used to.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:00.240 - 00:21:04.160
No, that's because I think they realized that all they were doing was encouraging us to do all the bad things.
Colin True
00:21:04.560 - 00:21:21.740
Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, I guess if anything comes out of this, it's fine. But I just, you know, again, like guys, it's important as amateur athletes.
It's important to have goals, it's important to stay fit and to find those things that fulfill us and all of those things. But not at the risk of a.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:21.820 - 00:21:24.620
Nine year old child, child abandonment.
Colin True
00:21:24.940 - 00:21:25.340
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:25.420 - 00:21:26.780
But daddy got a medal.
Colin True
00:21:27.180 - 00:21:33.420
Yeah, man, it really sucked for me but he got that medal. You know, the finisher's medal.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:33.580 - 00:21:34.700
Whoop dee doo.
Colin True
00:21:35.980 - 00:22:16.760
All right, next up, according to Irunfar endurance enthusiast and overall athletic Superman, Kilian Journey has announced his next project. It's called the States of Elevation.
Journey will set his sights on these United States of America in an attempt to link up the 14,000 foot peaks of the low 448.
Apparently he's going to start at Long Speak in Colorado and end at Mount Rainier and Washington trying to connect all 72 peaks at 14,000, 14,000ft or higher. He's going to be traveling by bike and by foot, obvious. Obviously by foot as he goes up the mountains, but by bike in between.
So you know, first of all good, good luck. You know it sounds hard but apparently Killian likes this stuff so I hope it goes well said. I really could not give like less of a shit about this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:17.000 - 00:22:25.370
You are such a killjoy or Achille and Joy. Oh no, I'm sorry, I couldn't, I couldn't resist.
Colin True
00:22:25.690 - 00:22:46.730
Big picture wise, I kind of hope that he's funding him himself. I'll say that brands are not supporting this. Like these big attempts by mountain athletes just seem stale at this point.
I don't like the idea of a lot of marketing money being spent on them. I feel like there's much better uses of that money that, you know, other than supporting someone's peak bagging goals.
But I don't know what, what do you think about Killian zipping around the US and going up 14ers?
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:46.970 - 00:22:50.250
I mean, all right, I get an old man on your lawn always perpetually.
Colin True
00:22:50.250 - 00:22:53.270
I'll just wait till shot. I got a big old man on the line.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:53.750 - 00:23:51.010
Shocking. Absolutely shocking. But I will also add this to me like the reason, I mean he's not a North Face athlete.
But I'm going to say the North Face because they're pretty well known for their athlete team. Things like that exist.
Sponsored mountain athletes exist because it's not necessarily, you know, these companies aren't paying them to knock out a bunch of firsts and do things that are truly groundbreaking. They're paying them to inspire the everyday person and of course, hoping those advertising dollars come back, back.
But most of us are never going to do what Killian does because most of us are not bionic freaks like Killian is.
But I guarantee there's people who are going to look at him, who look at people setting fkts, who look at people doing ultras, like all sorts of different things. You know, skiing a bunch of peaks. Like, I remember when Caroline Gleich did all that. I forget what she called it, but she did a ton of ski descents.
You know, I think Shooting gallery. Yeah, the shooting gallery, exactly. It's, you know, even our old fave tip to tip paddle guy. That's out there, right? Excuse me.
Colin True
00:23:51.010 - 00:23:51.970
Now just tip.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:51.970 - 00:23:57.130
Just the tip to tip. Just the tip to tip. Our good paddle guy, Kyle Parker.
Colin True
00:23:57.130 - 00:23:57.490
Shout out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:57.490 - 00:25:30.570
Yep, shout out to Kyle. But I think people could see these people doing these kind of contrived things.
And it's not necessarily to inspire them to say, well, now I, like Killian, shall run and bike between these peaks. It might inspire me to say, you know what? Right on, dude. Like, go get something big. And what do I want to do that's big?
I mean, I think it helps set a framework sometimes for our own. So I think about when I started trail running.
I was trying to figure out how to really get into it, and I kind of set the stupid goal of running the Teton Crest because that's what Hillary Oliver, who's a writer and a filmmaker, and she was running the blog at Outdoor Research at the time. I was doing some work for her, and she had suggested it to me, and I was like, yeah, all right.
And it gave me something weirdly concrete to focus on, even though no part of my brain thought I was going to be able to do it as a new runner. But it did get me out there running. And so I did end up up, you know, working toward my mileage, working towards elevation gain on trail.
And the end result for me wasn't running the Teton Crest. It was that I got to spend a lot of time running in the Sierra. And it was awesome.
And it kind of changed my game as far as how I got into trail, like, how I enjoyed trail running and how I proceeded with it. So for me, I don't think that I. I love that he's doing this. I think it's great.
I like the idea that people in, in a time when these quote firsts don't really exist and they don't and they don't really matter. Like what he's doing doesn't matter. It's not like important in the grand scheme of things. Do I think it's fun? Hell yeah, I think it's fun.
Go get it, dude. I look forward to following along.
Colin True
00:25:31.050 - 00:25:33.450
All right. I'm not going to disagree with anything you said. I think you're what you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:33.450 - 00:25:35.210
Great stop there.
Colin True
00:25:35.450 - 00:25:36.490
Like just move on.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:36.810 - 00:25:37.210
Next.
Colin True
00:25:38.810 - 00:26:36.020
But what I think is different now. And Kyle Parker is a good one. Like he's just a guy, right.
And so like it's just kind of game up the California, you know, the age of these sort of, you know, the Superman superwoman, like, you know, the Alex Honnolds, the Alex Lowe back in the day. Dan Osmond, the original North Face climbing team.
Lynn Hills and what they were doing were sort of important and were those first that were sort of inspiring back then. And it's like now I'd be much more interested in what Kyle's doing or what like Amyrna Valerio's doing or somebody who's like got a.
It seems more like anybody else in a certain degree. Right. It's like I think. And I think that's a. That's a. That's a change in how we consume things. I think it's.
It's how we look at, you know, influencers on or people who post on social media who are just kind of like you and me who are out doing interesting things are probably more fascinating to me than seeing like Killian who is a. He is a genetic freak. I mean you've seen him like jump up and down on his ankles and nothing bad happens to him. He's incredible.
Which is incredible by the way.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:36.020 - 00:26:43.560
Like I said, not too created by AI. He's the original AI bot. He's chat GPT in human form.
Colin True
00:26:43.960 - 00:26:55.960
So when I look at where brands are spending money, I'd rather like support Kyle. Right.
Like, you know, that guy is just a kid from I think Wisconsin who's like I'm going to paddle across the country and name it something funny like yeah, yeah, I support that guy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:55.960 - 00:27:07.400
Oh yeah, no, I would love to see. Absolutely. It's like when we talked about totally forgetting his name. But the PCT. FKT guy who was sponsored by Adidas, who kind of drove me nuts.
Colin True
00:27:08.200 - 00:27:09.320
Tim. Tim Olson.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:09.320 - 00:27:10.520
Tim Olson, yeah.
Colin True
00:27:10.520 - 00:27:11.440
Timothy Olsen.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:11.440 - 00:27:30.659
And it's like we talked about this. No dig for training and for knocking that out doing an incredible job, you know, something I certainly couldn't do.
But it wasn't fun for me to Follow that. Because it was so heavily plastered in Adidas, like, it felt just like one long corporate video about hiking. And so which is like the most.
Colin True
00:27:30.659 - 00:27:42.100
Basic layer of sponsorship. I remember even, like in the. In the 2000s, like, hey, we'll put your banner. I may have even said this when you mentioned it.
We'll put your banner up at the race. Like, yeah, for the 200 people who see my banner, then what am I supposed to get from that? You know?
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:42.100 - 00:28:04.400
But see, I think this is different because I don't think. And now I haven't seen. We'll see. Once he starts posting it about it or his team or whatever, like, does it become a big spot?
And the thing is, Killian doesn't have a ton of sponsors right now, so I think it's a little different in that regard. And I don't think this comes off as a marketing ploy, which unfortunately Tim's. Because of the way Adidas did it.
And I think this is all a misstep on Adidas's part. Not Tim's.
Colin True
00:28:04.400 - 00:28:06.160
Yeah, Tim's just like, I want to do this adventure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:06.320 - 00:28:08.480
Thank you for making. Thank you for making it possible.
Colin True
00:28:08.480 - 00:28:09.720
Exactly, exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:09.720 - 00:28:59.290
No, you can't blame him. So for me, this. This strikes a little different. This feels a little bit more like.
I absolutely agree with you that I would love to see more everyday people who want to do kind of out there things, get support. I think of Arts. Who Sonica Arts. His trail name is Carts. Arts Carts who? Sonica. He's in his 60s. He lives in Arizona.
This guy is doing things like yo yos on the Arizona trail, paddling across, you know, Yukon Territory, like, you know, in his well into his 60s. And I love following what that guy does because he is just a fascinating, joyful guy who's like, I'm just gonna go out and do some fun stuff.
So, you know, yes, more. More support to those folks for sure. But I'm still gonna enjoy following this. To me sounds like an interesting, fun little thing.
And I'm curious to see if he's able to get it done and enjoy it in the process.
Colin True
00:29:00.010 - 00:29:33.530
Okay, so let's blend. You know, my hate of everything and your optimistic point of view.
So if brands, if you're sponsoring and it could just be normal, who's his footwear brand? So that might. Maybe that's it. In which case it's like, I think he's an owner there, so cool.
But if it's other folks as well, you know, how do you get the community involved? How do. When you're breezing through some of these locations.
If you're climbing 14ers, there's going to be mountain communities around most of the places you're going to go. Like how do you get people to kind of are there meet and greets, Are there things at retailers?
You know, how do you kind of like make it more than just. Here's another picture of Killian running up a hill like, yeah, fair never saw that before.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:33.850 - 00:29:36.090
Wow. Boy, that guy can run.
Colin True
00:29:36.330 - 00:29:38.010
I bet he did it really well.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:38.410 - 00:29:47.340
So well, we'll see, won't we? We'll have to talk about it maybe once. Once he's completed. Hey Killian, you want to come on the rock fight now? He's got to come on.
Come on, Gear Abby.
Colin True
00:29:47.740 - 00:29:48.220
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:48.300 - 00:29:51.500
A third of this episode. We've talked about you, Killian. Come on, gear Abby.
Colin True
00:29:51.580 - 00:29:54.860
So what do you want to talk about, all my big and. No, no, we want to talk to you about poop.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:55.340 - 00:30:03.100
That's why we have you on gear Abbey again, Owen. It wasn't me. Are you ready for the lightning round, Colin?
Colin True
00:30:03.420 - 00:30:05.500
I'm ready for you to talk about Lems.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:05.660 - 00:30:08.060
Well, let's do that then. I'd love to. I'd always.
Colin True
00:30:08.060 - 00:30:09.500
I'll do it. If you don't want to, it's fine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:09.500 - 00:30:54.610
I always want to too. Don't try to steal my Lem's thunder. All right. Today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Lemz.
Looking for shoes that offer both long lasting durability and all day comfort. Well, look no further than Lem's. With a versatile lineup featuring over 30 thoughtfully designed styles.
From minimalist sandals and rugged trail boots to vegan friendly sneakers and laid back slip ons, there's truly something for everyone. 1.
Whether you're hitting the trail, traveling the globe or strolling through town, Lems are built to move with you naturally and keep up every step of the way. Get shopping over@lems.com lemshoes.com would be better though. That there will work my lens. Rock fight dot com.
Colin True
00:30:57.090 - 00:30:59.250
All right, are you ready? Are you ready now for the lightning round?
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:59.250 - 00:31:01.090
Oh yeah, I've been ready apparently.
Chris DeMakes
00:31:03.490 - 00:31:04.770
Lightning round.
Colin True
00:31:07.250 - 00:31:26.190
All right. First up for the lightning round. According to adventure.com, it has been predicted that 285,000 tourists could be visiting Antarctica by 2034.
Which apparently is a conservative estimate, but twice the current number. Shantae, should a fragile place like Antarctica be sold as a tourist destination at all?
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:26.270 - 00:31:51.340
Woof.
Well, I can't help but think about what Happened in Iceland, where they did such a good job drawing tourists, but didn't account for what became a very negative impact on the environment, which is very measurable. So I think tourism to fragile places, I mean, is this the whole world now?
Should include some sort of countermeasures that protect those environments. Things like requiring volunteerism, hefty fees, maybe that tie into preservation efforts. Maybe a one year one off cycle, something like that.
Colin True
00:31:52.060 - 00:31:57.460
I mean, upwards of 300,000 people was crazy to me. Like, I can't believe that many people. I mean, I knew it was getting more popular, but Jesus, I think most.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:57.460 - 00:31:58.460
Of them stay on the boats.
Colin True
00:31:58.700 - 00:32:12.540
All right, next up. Earlier this month, a chairlift collapsed at a resort resort in Russia, leaving 8 hurt. While this isn't a common occurrence occurrence.
What's your take on riding Chair loves you. Do you never question your safety or do you convince yourself that each one you take could be your last moment on earth?
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:12.540 - 00:32:24.660
I'll be honest, it's more of B.
And you're not gonna like what I'm about to say, but the only time I really thought that I was going to fall out of a chairlift was on the Mount Baldy lift, which I suggested you take after your hike earlier this summer.
Colin True
00:32:24.660 - 00:32:53.370
Sorry, I'm gonna break Lightning round protocol. You're 100% right. I was literally figuring out how I was going to dive off of that chair because I kept stopping and it's rickety as shit as shit.
All right, last story for the lightning round. On August 5, Sam Shoemaker paddled a mushroom that he grew himself and molded to be shaped like a kayak.
26 miles from Catalina island to your hometown of Los Angeles. Are mushrooms the future of recreational paddle sports? Or are we now just one step closer to the last of us becoming a reality?
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:54.720 - 00:33:07.600
Mushrooms are the future of everything. I mean, they are all joined up in their little like mycelium networks underground talking to one another.
I honestly, humans haven't done such a stellar job. So maybe we should just hand everything over to the mushrooms and orcas and see what they do with it.
Colin True
00:33:08.400 - 00:33:17.000
He needs to figure how to paint it though, because it was kind of gross looking. It just looks like a big like, like, it looks like something Leatherface made in like the third chainsaw text.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:17.000 - 00:33:18.900
Like, someone put lotion in the basket.
Colin True
00:33:19.530 - 00:33:59.030
Yes, Buffalo Bill would like a word. All right. Today's main story is presented by Oboz, who loves hiking. And as the cupid of the outdoors, Oboz wants to help.
You love hiking just as much as they do.
So Last month on the trek, co featured writer Katie Jackson posted a piece about the quote, controversial and hotly debated points of trail etiquette. Now anyone who spends any time on any trail will immediately form opinions about the right and wrong way to be out there there.
So I thought we'd use Katie's article as a guide to talk about some of these, you know, on trail scenarios and how we feel about them. We've touched on some etiquette things before. I have definitely talked about some etiquette things on the podcast over the years.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:59.190 - 00:34:02.390
From your front porch fisting up, I've.
Colin True
00:34:02.390 - 00:34:03.510
Talked to the clouds.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:04.470 - 00:34:07.670
Old man yells at Clouds Starring.
Colin True
00:34:09.910 - 00:34:33.180
That's right. If I can win that were that title I would be, that'd be a big accomplishment.
So the six categories according to Katie's article, there's Right of Way, Yielding, Music, Leash Dogs, Food, Packing and Muddy Patches. Actually, before I tee you up, do you have any just sort of general etiquette or.
I don't want to spoil anything you're going to say, but do you have any sort of general thoughts on etiquette before we kind of get into it?
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:33.900 - 00:35:32.100
I will say that you got kind of two schools people out there.
You have the people who know everything and are dicks to other people who don't know everything and then you have people who know everything and try to be nice when they're educating other people. So I, I had an example maybe two summers ago I was up by Cathedral Lake in Yosemite camping for the night.
I was on a couple multi week backpacking trip and when I got to the lake there were a couple of tents right next to the lake. And so I was like okay. I looked to see it was a bunch of, it was like three young girls, like pretty young, maybe 20, 21, I don't know.
And, and as I am get my friends and I are gonna go set up in the woods and this guy comes past and my friends and I are having snacks next to the lake. Before we kind of or we, we had set up our camp, we're having snacks by the lake.
I'd kind of chit chatted with the girls and I, you know I went over to say hi and without me saying anything they said we're too close to the water, right? I'm like yeah. And I kind of explained like yeah, we really don't want to camp right next to the water because it's sort of.
Colin True
00:35:32.180 - 00:35:33.420
But they opened the door for you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:33.420 - 00:36:18.040
They did. They? Yeah, they were real, they were really chill. They kind of knew.
And so I was really chill with them and I said, yeah, you know, it' always a great idea because a, it's harder for everybody to be able to enjoy the water and then also the animals don't feel comfortable coming up sometimes when there's like big human encroachments and they're like, oh no thanks. Totally thanks for being cool with us. This dude comes by a little bit later and he just yells, yeah, I guess the hundred foot rule, huh? I was like.
And I turned to him and I said, sorry, what? He's like, yeah, fuck the hundred foot rule. I guess just camp wherever you want. I was like, first of all, those aren't my tents.
My tents are in the woods. You know what he does? He goes and walks into the woods to see if mine and the two people I was camping with there and he comes out salty as fuck.
He's like, whatever. Walks away.
Colin True
00:36:18.040 - 00:36:22.080
I was like, did he show you his badge? You know the trail police, you know. Jesus Christ.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:22.080 - 00:36:35.400
Yeah, so I don't, I don't love the trail police. I think we can all do a better job of kindly educating each other.
Like people being assholes is one thing, but a lot of people honestly are just ignorant. Colin. So go ahead, let's run through these. We'll see. See what I think.
Colin True
00:36:35.560 - 00:37:15.420
No, I think, and I think that's a great table setter because we're obviously going to express some opinions right now.
But I think there is sort of a listen either if you're, if you're going to address it with somebody, number one, expect that they may not like it even if you're nice about it. You might be just better off just getting away as quickly as possible to put that bad experience behind you.
But there are times when it's like, you know, just be aware of that. Be aware of what your approach is. I mean if that guy had been, if he really, man that's his bugaboo.
Just come down and be like, hey guys, look man, I know it's really nice to be next to the water, but you really can't be down here. I mean even then it, that's a little more aggressive than what you did.
But it's also like it was just, you know, it's, it's defensible I guess is my, is my point.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:15.420 - 00:37:17.700
Yeah. Other than instead of yelling the 100.
Colin True
00:37:17.700 - 00:37:24.100
Foot rule, maybe you don't, you know, how about this, buddy? They probably don't even know what that rule is because they're camp right next to the Water?
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:24.580 - 00:37:27.540
No, they connect some dots. It was their first backpacking trip too.
Colin True
00:37:27.780 - 00:37:57.560
Oh my God. All right, well, I, I comboed the first two categories right of way and yielding to bikers, hikers and horses because they kind.
There's some crossover there. So, so the, the etiquette states downhillers give way to uphillers. Everyone yields the horses, bikers yield, the hikers and bikers get jack shit.
Like no one. You get nothing. No, that's the way it is. If you ride a bike, no one yields to you. Like you just, you get to just pull over for everybody.
So how do you feel about what's going on on the trails on these two categories?
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:57.560 - 00:39:17.400
All right.
I'd say I'm mostly on board with these concepts, except for I do not like that in order to yield to horses, they suggest you stand on the downhill side because horses will tend to spook uphill. And so it's not my favorite when I'm on a steep trail, there's a big drop off, but, but I always do it.
I also try to hide my trekking poles cuz some horses will get spooked by those. Um, I also yield to cyclists going downhill because I don't want to get squashed. And personally this is easier.
Yeah, I also yield to cyclists going uphill because honestly, I think they're working a little harder than me in that moment. I mean, I'm working hard, but their quads are probably burning a little harder.
So for me personally, I think a bike, you know, you've got something under your control like let's give those way is my opinion. Um, but I do really wish more people gave uphill hikers the right of way in those hiker versus hiker situations.
Because when I'm hiking or trail running, I'm trying to keep my breath as measured and rhythmic as pop, you know, as possible, especially on those uphills. And I tend to have a pretty good cadence then like of my breath and my steps and everything. So it's always a bummer to interrupt that. And so I'll. I.
But I don't mind stepping to the side sometimes for a breather, panting, gasping for air if I need to. But yeah, I think people still don't really adhere to the hiker versus hiker uphill yielding, but I would like them to.
Colin True
00:39:18.440 - 00:39:55.590
This combo here is like the one that causes probably the most issues on trails. Right. And I think, and I, and I think your instincts are right, especially like yielding to bikers or whatever it is. It's just being proactive.
But it also, I think then sets a bad precedent for people who don't know because then they think, oh, hikers are supposed to step aside from me. And I've experienced that too. So I tend to. As a mountain biker, I tend when I'm hiking or running, I go right in the military and I stand there.
Not stand, but I move because like, I have the right of way and I want to see what they're gonna do. My point of view on all of these things is just, yes, there's probably the technically right or wrong way.
The right thing to do is just is deference to the other people.
Shawnté Salabert
00:39:55.590 - 00:39:57.190
You'll just say, hey, on your left.
Colin True
00:39:57.190 - 00:40:28.900
Or whatever, take a second right. And just what is the other person gonna do? If it means like, hey, they're really barreling through on foot or on bike.
And then, okay, great, I'll just, I'll just step aside.
The one that is drives me crazy, and I'm sure I've talked about this on the podcast before, is when it comes to horses, you're talking about bringing a whole other massive thousand pound entity into whatever's happening on the trail that has a brain and is a prey animal and prone to spooking. You stop whatever you're doing and you look at the person riding and say, hey, what would you like me to do?
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:29.060 - 00:40:57.700
Yeah, I've done that a lot. Yeah. Like, what's the best thing? Because I've been in situations.
Just maybe two weeks ago, I was in the Sierra and there was a whole pack train just coming like across the trail. And I was like, can I go? I don't know, what should I do here, guys?
Because they were, they weren't in a line, they were just spread like all the horses were just nilly. It was just horse mayhem. And. Yeah, and I've seen horses, I've been on horses when they get spooked. And it's, it is not my favorite thing.
Colin True
00:40:57.700 - 00:41:12.070
So you can get hurt. The, the me as the hiker or biker on the ground can get hurt. I mean, it's just like, it's just dumb. Like just.
I've seen and I've seen cyclists, mountain bikers arguing with people on horses over who has the. Right away. And it's like, shut up. Pull off to the side.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:12.310 - 00:41:27.990
Just. Yeah. Or just talk, like communicate. I wish more people just looked at each other.
I think so many people think it's their own private Idaho out there, which a lot all of these etiquette things kind of come back to. But we're all Sharing this space. So let's figure out how to do it the least obtrusive way possible.
Colin True
00:41:29.030 - 00:41:58.820
And I would now, I would say to the more experienced trail users, then we can move on to the next one. Is also adjust your expectations, because I noticed that too. If I go out on a busy. A trail that gets a lot of use from a lot of.
There's horses, there's hikers, there's runners, there's bikers, man, there's going to be dicks. There's going to be people who don't know what they're doing.
There are people maybe on there, they're pushing strollers who don't know what they're supposed to do. So just be a little patient. Just take a breath, and if you really don't want that of that experience, then don't go to that trail that day.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:59.700 - 00:42:00.700
All right, what else you got?
Colin True
00:42:00.700 - 00:42:01.460
We solved that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:01.700 - 00:42:02.580
Yeah. Fixed.
Colin True
00:42:02.980 - 00:42:09.190
I'm just going to clear out for a mute music, which I think was mostly related to people who bring their speakers on trail.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:09.190 - 00:42:10.150
Oh, my God. That's the worst.
Colin True
00:42:10.150 - 00:42:10.670
Over to you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:10.670 - 00:42:28.990
Yeah. No, I did not sign up to share your Spotify account. That is my take on this. It's my.
Honestly, it's my number one pet peeve when I'm hiking, when people are using speakers. And I. I really only get annoyed with it when I'm in the back country.
Like on a front country trail, something like Griffith park or whatever, you do your thing. I don't care.
Colin True
00:42:28.990 - 00:42:31.310
Well, that's not. Back to that. I just don't know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:31.870 - 00:43:13.610
Yeah, it's not my favorite, but I also am not as bothered by it because we're in this public space. Like in a public park, you're hear radios. It's just how it works.
But in the back country, I think people also don't realize that wilderness regulations actually ask that you don't play amplified music. So I know there's people who think it's boring to hike without music.
I know there's people who feel like music motivates them on trail, which we obviously talked about when we made our 90s playlist with Doug. Or they feel like using music, they're nervous, and they feel like it'll help them scare away any animals that might attack or whatever.
And I understand that one's a little silly. No, it's not. Colin, you know how many people use bare bells on trails? It's the same concept. No.
Colin True
00:43:13.610 - 00:43:14.010
Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:14.010 - 00:43:19.690
It's not silly. It's. I think for a lot of people, that's they're nervous to be out where a bear or something might.
Colin True
00:43:20.010 - 00:43:21.570
Sure, I make it. I mean, I get it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:21.570 - 00:43:48.110
So. So their thought is like, oh, and I've met people who've done this and that's their thought is it'll scare them away.
But that last one is actually true. And so it's kind of a crappy thing to do to play the music because you're really disrupting this environment we're walking through.
So that is the bear's environment or it is the marmots environment. You know, I had to bring a marmot into this. I don't know, maybe marmots do like some smooth jazz or something. I'm imagining I'll try next time.
Colin True
00:43:48.510 - 00:43:50.710
Go to what marmots listen to. That's our next ultimate.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:50.710 - 00:43:55.550
I'm just gonna carry a pair of maracas out with me. I have some and just see, like.
Colin True
00:43:56.750 - 00:43:59.230
Would that be as equally annoying as someone walking with a speaker, though?
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:59.230 - 00:44:34.250
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm not a fan. Like, I've been up on mountaintops where I have been out there when people have busted out a guitar or something.
And I'm like, I don't really want to listen to your campfire sounds right now. I just want to be here on the mountain.
But I have also seen, like, I, you know, I've seen people bring string instruments into remote places and it is pretty neat to see those videos. Do I know if I don't know that I'd want to be there in the moment? Moment. I like the concept, but no, I really.
I can hear a lot of sounds where I live in the city, so I don't want to hear amplified sounds and I'm out in nature.
Colin True
00:44:35.210 - 00:45:08.870
The only time I was actually okay with it was. And I'm sure I told this story as well, but like a split rock mountain. Split, split, Split rock mountain. I forget.
It's in Cuamoka State park and it's this awesome sort of like exposed summit. And it's great. And we did a nighttime hike up it, an evening hike up it. We're going to watch the sunset.
And we got to the top and there was some local hiking group that had done it. And they're all drinking hard kombucha and they had music on and it was like a party at the summit.
And as I say those words, normally I'd be like, what the. Come on, stop it. But actually rolling up there. Cause they started cheering as we're coming up the summit. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:08.870 - 00:45:11.670
It was so because they brought you into it. That's the thing.
Colin True
00:45:11.670 - 00:45:12.310
They brought you into it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:12.310 - 00:45:16.390
You got to be a part of it. It's different than somebody sort of just blaring music.
Colin True
00:45:16.790 - 00:46:08.670
Right? Right. When it comes. I tend to. It's just kind of same thing like front country or you know, depending on what the interaction is.
Like, especially if it's somebody going the opposite way. I just, you know, I don't say anything. Like the, the one thing I will back. Back to the yielding.
Like if I'm riding uphill, especially on a bike, and another cyclist comes downhill, I will yell, uphill has right of way. Like just. I'm like, I don't care. Like, get mad at me if you want.
Cause like that is that, that is to me the one black or white, the uphill cyclist to another cyclist. No, you pull over. That's what happens.
And if you don't know that, especially in the age of E bikes, which we're going to get to in the parting shot, it's going to. It's. It's like it can get really dangerous. Dangerous.
And if somebody's coming the other way and they have a speaker on, then I try and ignore it and they'll be gone in a few minutes. But yeah. Generally speaking though, no, just. What do you do? What in the. There's so many earbud options. There's so many.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:08.910 - 00:46:10.190
Just do it.
Colin True
00:46:10.510 - 00:46:20.830
All right, next up, leashed dogs. Etiquette states your dog should be on a leash unless otherwise. Unless stated otherwise. And I agree with that. As a dog owner.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:21.070 - 00:47:30.060
Yeah, I love dogs. I love hiking with dogs. I love meeting dogs on trail. But I also do not want to get run up on aggressively and barked at that and.
Or knocked down, which has happened to me. I've. I got knocked out on the Colorado trail with my full pack on and I was pissed because this dog ran up to me. I actually thought it was a bear.
I was like, oh, this bear is charging me because it was a really big dog and I only saw it for a second and it just like bounded right into me and knocked me over. And then the owner comes up a minute later, he's like, oh, sorry. He's real friendly. I'm like, that's not friendly.
That's not friendly to be knocked over by a dog. So yeah, I think it's also just not great to have dogs running around when we're talking the back country domesticated dogs chasing wildlife.
Like, your dog may be very well behaved at home, but have you seen how your dog Reacts. You don't know that. It's seen all the animals that exist out there. How will it react to that animal?
So it's just a good thing also for the wildlife to sort of keep things a little more contained. But I get it. Like, I understand how wonderful it is. Like, dogs. I love seeing dogs being free and living their best doggy lives.
And so it's a hard one, especially if it's a corgi or an Australian shepherd. Like, not that dog run up to me, but.
Chris DeMakes
00:47:30.210 - 00:47:30.450
But.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:30.930 - 00:47:32.210
But otherwise, maybe not.
Colin True
00:47:32.610 - 00:47:34.370
I have two Australian shepherds, by the way.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:34.370 - 00:47:37.330
I didn't know that. I can't wait to come see Lord of the Rings now.
Colin True
00:47:37.330 - 00:47:45.210
Oh, no, they're not. They're not nice dogs. They got very co. They don't know anybody. They bark at everybody incessantly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:45.210 - 00:47:45.690
I'll fix that.
Colin True
00:47:45.690 - 00:47:46.369
You can beat the one.
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:46.369 - 00:47:46.930
I'll be the one.
Colin True
00:47:46.930 - 00:48:03.630
But. But that's. I've learned the hard way with dogs, right?
I mean, when I got my first dog, when my wife and I was like, 21, 22, we got a dog for free in the farm. And it's this thing in your head, like, we're going for a hike and just. You take it off leash and we just run free. And it is.
And to your point, there's that visual of the dog running. It's really fun.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:04.110 - 00:48:04.830
They're all happy.
Colin True
00:48:05.470 - 00:48:11.830
But unless you can just guarantee. And even my thing now is like, even if you can guarantee me that the dog is under voice command, put it on a leash.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:11.830 - 00:48:12.110
Y.
Colin True
00:48:12.110 - 00:48:55.960
There's a small mountain behind my house. Talk about all the time. I go up there and I've had multiple interactions where my dog, who I. I'm.
She's kind of a dick, but she's not aggressive or mean, right? She just barks a lot, right? And it's like.
But when we're up there, usually that means I have had 55 minutes of my day open up that I'm going to run up there for a quick hike to a workout in. I'm taking my dog with me. And people come out, oh, they're dogs. And as we come around the corner, there's a dog off leash.
I'm like, my dog's going to be. Is on leash and is going to be immediately interested and going to be kind of an asshole about it. Put your dog on a leash.
Say, hey, could you leash your dog, please? Oh, is your dog not friendly? No, my dog's actually very friendly. I don't have time for you. I'm not up here to hang out with you and your dog.
And it's like so just also there's a sign at the beginning of the trail that says put your dog on a leash.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:56.110 - 00:48:56.430
Leash.
Colin True
00:48:56.670 - 00:49:00.030
It's not that hard. You just don't want to do it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:49:00.190 - 00:49:00.830
That's true.
Colin True
00:49:01.070 - 00:49:02.510
This is great. I'm getting lots of.
Shawnté Salabert
00:49:02.590 - 00:49:04.990
I was going to say energy on this. Is this like therapy for you?
Colin True
00:49:04.990 - 00:49:10.510
This is amazing episode. All right, last two. Food packing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:49:10.510 - 00:49:11.110
Food packing.
Colin True
00:49:11.110 - 00:49:15.790
So the etiquette states that you pack out your food scraps. So no banana peels on the trail?
Shawnté Salabert
00:49:15.870 - 00:49:41.160
No, no, no banana peels on the trail. I feel like these the people who are just leaving scraps everywhere.
The same people who used to just whip cigarette butts out of cars like in the 80s. Listen, this is not a lonely island skit. You should not just throw it on the ground. This ground isn't part of your sanitation system.
The ground's not your dad. Okay. So for real though, I think people assume that food will just easily decompose. Right?
Colin True
00:49:41.320 - 00:49:41.720
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:49:41.800 - 00:50:29.040
And. And that is and become like one with the soil. But this is not the case with a lot of foods including the ubiquitous orange peels.
Little mandarin peels every freaking and wear they can take 4 damn ever to break down. Especially in places here like here arid places like California. It's not wet enough here.
The little like think about what it takes for a compost pile to actually work. A lot of people don't understand compost piles either. And they take they.
You have to have the right conditions for the in microbes to do their thing and everything to start breaking down. Same thing in regular ass soil. So orange peels can last for years. Do not leave your orange peels.
They turn into little petrified pieces of that I pack out. So yeah, I get a little fired up about that one too. Don't do it. Just carry it out people.
Colin True
00:50:29.360 - 00:50:31.360
What about empty goo packs are okay though right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:50:31.440 - 00:50:59.200
Oh my God. I've picked up so many of those. It's the pull tabs on the top because it's like all that little micro trash. I did a thing.
I don't think I've ever mentioned it but I did granite gear.
Did a program they might still be doing it called the Groundskeepers where they geared up some hikers who were heading out to do long trails with the expectation that we would all pick up garbage along the way. And it was very illuminating focus being focused on garbage while you're hiking. You realize how much of it is actually out there.
Colin True
00:51:00.400 - 00:51:08.640
Last one and I, I guess I do think of this. And not as frequently as the others, though. Muddy patches, which etiquette states you go through the mud, not around it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:08.640 - 00:51:16.080
Yes. Yes. Sometimes this feels like the hardest one of all, personally, because you're, you're just like, oh, I don't want to touch it. So gross.
Colin True
00:51:16.080 - 00:51:18.440
It depends on the consistency of the mud you're about to walk through.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:18.440 - 00:52:08.190
Yeah, some of it is just like, oh, like baby. But you just, you gotta walk through it. Even though it's disgusting. I sometimes have to take a moment and gather myself.
But the issue with walking around it is that you're widening the existing trail. You might even create a second rut which is gonna just become mud and fill with water. And then you just keep widening.
Like I was up at Cathedral Pass in Yosemite, this beautiful high altitude alpine meadow, and it's all jacked up because there's multiple trails running through it now from people, people skipping the main trail and trying to walk on the side of it. You're also killing whatever foliage is there.
And as somebody who has done trail maintenance and done trail building, I can tell you it's very hard and it takes a really long time to even just build or maintain a mile of trail. So please don't make it harder on, on any of us who are out here doing this work so that we can all enjoy these trails.
Colin True
00:52:08.910 - 00:52:11.390
It's just, you got to go through it. That's the way it is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:11.470 - 00:52:12.510
We're still. Got to go through it.
Colin True
00:52:12.510 - 00:52:13.070
Dries out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:13.070 - 00:52:16.820
Yeah. Yeah. Got to go through it. As the. Is the metaphor for. For life.
Colin True
00:52:17.140 - 00:52:17.860
There it is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:17.940 - 00:52:22.580
Or just say, or stay away until it dries out. Maybe also a metaphor for life. I don't know.
Colin True
00:52:22.740 - 00:52:25.380
Well, I think that leads us to our oboe's outro.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:25.700 - 00:52:45.230
Well, you know what? Today's top stories on the rock fight were brought to you by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking.
And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including the following. Number one, nature doesn't care. Care about your follower count. And that's why I love.
Colin True
00:52:45.390 - 00:52:47.910
Have we talked to Mother Nature about that? She really does.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:47.910 - 00:52:56.110
I think she doesn't. Yeah, I think she's pretty firm on that. Number two, nobody ever said, wow, that cubicle view is breathtaking.
Colin True
00:52:57.150 - 00:52:58.830
Have you seen my cubicle?
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:59.310 - 00:53:00.670
I'm looking at it right now.
Colin True
00:53:00.750 - 00:53:02.670
I know. It's pretty breathtaking.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:02.670 - 00:53:05.430
Padded. It looks like you're in a padded room. Very breathtaking.
Colin True
00:53:05.430 - 00:53:06.350
That's how I live my life.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:07.310 - 00:53:11.440
Oh, boy. Number three, every root and rock is a free agility course.
Colin True
00:53:12.160 - 00:53:13.800
Especially if you're going, you're going through.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:13.800 - 00:53:16.000
It for your entree unleashed dog.
Colin True
00:53:16.400 - 00:53:18.800
That's right. Yes, exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:20.480 - 00:54:01.670
Good job, you. And number four, your new Oboz highlight mid waterproof boots.
The Oboz highlight is designed for lasting comfort and made with recycled and bio based materials. Yeah. Saucy. The highlight collection is designed to support, support your stride, whether that's out on rocky switchbacks or wandering closer to home.
So this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana. Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking. Oh, boy.
Now we, now we have to change the mood, don't we, Colin? Because you do.
Colin True
00:54:01.670 - 00:54:13.570
This has been a, this has been a therapeutic episode because it's time for the parting shot. And I have, I have some, I got some beef. All right, so Shantae, please remove yourself from my lawn.
I hope the clouds are ready for a good fist shaking.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:13.570 - 00:54:14.210
Oh, boy.
Colin True
00:54:14.770 - 00:54:28.410
Because old guy Collins here with a hot take that is perfectly timed, given our conversation. A trail, trail around trail etiquette. I'm not going to make any bones about it. I'm just going to say it straight up. I hate e mountain bikes.
I hate e mountain bikes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:28.410 - 00:54:29.250
Such a hater.
Colin True
00:54:29.490 - 00:55:24.010
I hate them so much. I've been so good about you. Yeah, I've been pretty good.
But I understand, I understand that somebody with a disability or an older individual helps them get out there. I, I get that. But it doesn't mean that I like them. And you're right, obviously I have a reputation. It's fine.
But the other day I was out mountain biking and a pack of e bikers came up behind me and passed me. No bells, no hay. Coming up on your left. Just a quick glance at me as they're passing by.
Luckily I, I was on a reasonably wide trail, otherwise it could have gone badly. They just, it was like seven people just go cruising by me on an uphill. And then to make it worse, to make it worse, this is what I'm like. I'm.
This is the parting shot this week. I actually caught these guys later in the ride. So going uphill, there's like, like turbo mode or whatever. Zip it uphill.
And then I actually caught up to them and they're all like winded.
Shawnté Salabert
00:55:24.330 - 00:55:27.130
Did you feel, did you feel very smug in that moment, Colin?
Colin True
00:55:27.130 - 00:56:14.190
Oh, yeah. And I was riding my fully rigid mountain bike wow.
Look, I've said it before, but E bikes are creating a generation of riders who don't know how to mountain bike. They don't know the etiquette.
They don't have the leg strength to be out there in remote places, understanding that if your bike fails, you're walking out. And don't give me also, it's the. Oh, it's great. I can ride twice as far as you. As like as the person on the analog bike. Who cares?
I hate that argument so much. Since when is the good vibes or happiness created by riding on my mountain bike been tied to being able to gride further in a given?
The joy comes in earning those miles, feeling strong, using your body to negotiate the technical trail. And that feeling of flying when hitting the downhill. I'm over it. I'm never owning an E bike. They suck. At least until, like one day I really need to.
And I'll change my opinion, but that's my partnership.
Shawnté Salabert
00:56:14.190 - 00:56:16.990
Exactly. Wow, man, you.
Colin True
00:56:16.990 - 00:56:17.830
I'm so mad.
Shawnté Salabert
00:56:17.830 - 00:56:24.050
If you were a climber, you would have been one of those guys bitching about how climbing gyms ruin climbing and nobody knows how to climb.
Colin True
00:56:25.080 - 00:56:30.120
On the flip side, I really love climbing gyms. I think it was truly. It is part of that etiquette thing. Like I'm obviously.
Shawnté Salabert
00:56:30.120 - 00:56:31.080
It's the etiquette. Yeah, I agree.
Colin True
00:56:31.080 - 00:56:49.920
Over the top. If they had said, hey, on your left, coming up behind you. Just some typical trail stuff. But it's just.
I mean, I didn't know they were there because they were basically not pedaling or it was like zipping along and all of a sudden this guy's passing me. I had this moment of like, how are you going so fast? Then I'm like, oh, were you just.
Shawnté Salabert
00:56:49.920 - 00:56:52.190
Feeling salty because you weren't going to as fast?
Colin True
00:56:53.870 - 00:56:55.350
Maybe it's okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:56:55.350 - 00:56:58.270
Colin, I'm glad we could have this therapy session for you today though.
Colin True
00:56:58.270 - 00:57:00.110
Truly. This was such a good episode.
Shawnté Salabert
00:57:02.190 - 00:57:05.390
Says you. Everybody else stopped listening at the 30 minute mark.
Colin True
00:57:05.710 - 00:57:07.390
No way. The haters are here with me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:57:07.469 - 00:57:09.910
Yeah. You're going to get some emails this week, I think. For sure.
Colin True
00:57:09.910 - 00:57:12.270
I hope so. Send us your emails. We want your emails.
Shawnté Salabert
00:57:14.110 - 00:57:16.070
They're really all for Colin this episode.
Colin True
00:57:16.070 - 00:57:18.290
They are. Because I really. Over the top. Was. Was it bad?
Shawnté Salabert
00:57:18.290 - 00:57:19.370
No, it was great, actually.
Colin True
00:57:19.450 - 00:57:43.610
Okay, good. All right, good. That is the show for the day. And we do want your emails.
Send them to myrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LLC for gear. Abby herself, Chante Salibair. I'M Colin True. Thanks for listening and someone who didn't make the 90s playlist.
Sorry Krista makes we talked about less than Jake for a split second but you're here to sing the rock fight fight song. Thank you very much for that and we'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:57:43.610 - 00:58:44.880
Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music the latest movie reviews Ideas that aim for the head this is where we speak our truth this is where we speak our truth Rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock flight welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock flight Rock flight Rock fly Rock flight Welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock flight Rock flight Rock flight flight.
