Speedland’s Billboard Play: Bold Move or Big Mistake?
- colin7931
- 9 hours ago
- 36 min read
Today on The Rock Fight we debut The Brief!
The Brief is a look at the brand and creative efforts of the outdoor industry as broken down by our brand and creative expert, Producer Dave.
A few weeks back Producer Dave noticed some billboards popping up in his hometown of Portland, OR for running shoe upstart Speedland. Today we take a deep dive into the creative of the Speedland campaign and determine if billboards were a good idea at all to support that campaign.
We end with Produce Dave debuting The Brief Final Assessment where he scores the efforts of Speedland's campaign out of a possible 50 points!
Would you like your brand or marketing campaign to be broken down on a future edition of The Brief? Drop us a line at myrockfight@gmail.com.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:47.980
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and today we're taking brand analysis that we so often do around here to a whole new level. But before we get to that, come back to the Rock Fight on Monday for the first ever outdoor brand Schoolyard draft.
Owen, Shantae, producer Dave and I all drafted teams of the best outdoor brands and you get to hear it all on Monday. On Wednesday next week we'll have another crossover event as Doug Schnitzbahn joinshanta and I to talk about our top 10 favorite outdoor playlists.
And lastly, be sure to subscribe to News from the Front Rock Fight's weekly newsletter by heading to Rock Fight Co. So many ways for you to stay connected to the Rock Fight universe. Take advantage of them all. All right, stick around. We'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:48.140 - 00:00:52.060
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:54.540 - 00:02:15.550
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Colin True
00:02:31.290 - 00:03:55.140
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We don't really bust that title out very often around here, but it's true. Producer Dave is here. What's up, Dave?
Producer Dave
00:03:55.600 - 00:03:56.640
Hey, sir, how you doing?
Colin True
00:03:57.440 - 00:04:01.640
You know, just, we're wrapping up the week, you know, wrapping up, kind of wrapping up summer, August.
Producer Dave
00:04:01.640 - 00:04:10.320
I'm, you know, I'm a little tapped after the big board and the draft. Right. I mean, they're not going to hear that till next week, but still.
Colin True
00:04:11.119 - 00:04:23.960
That's right. This will come out on Friday, That'll come out on Monday.
But yeah, a little teaser, Dave, Shantae, Owen and I, we took the winners of the top five list that we did and then we drafted them into our own teams. And so we're excited for them, everybody to enter that.
Producer Dave
00:04:23.960 - 00:04:26.560
And only one can be the best draft.
Colin True
00:04:27.500 - 00:04:30.860
And only one person can have the last pick of the draft.
Producer Dave
00:04:31.660 - 00:04:35.820
That's right. That's right. Someone did have the last pick of.
Colin True
00:04:35.820 - 00:05:25.520
The draft and someone was the last pick. Someone got the last pick. A lot of lasts.
But listen, so Dave's here because a common theme that we come back to here on the Rock Fight is the role of brand. And that's because there are so many outcomes that we discuss that have their origins in creative and brand storytelling.
And whether that's on the product side or the marketing side, the outdoor industry is, is a tailor made industry to have brand as an engine for success. Because so much of what a brand is tied to is emotion. And emotion is a big piece of outdoor storytelling.
And Dave, the one thing that I think that has really bonded you and I is when we look around the outdoor industry, there are so often just very big highs when it comes to outdoor storytelling and the results that, you know, follow. But then there are also just really low lows when a brand doesn't hit the mark.
Producer Dave
00:05:26.500 - 00:05:30.500
Yes. Yeah, it is. I think we call that tone deaf there.
Colin True
00:05:31.140 - 00:05:48.980
Right, well, and that's. That's. That's the real tragedy of the. The.
The lag in national trade shows that hopefully, you know, switchback is looking to fill is the, you know, the attempts for. The opportunity for you and I to walk around and just judge the shit out of brands for. Because they're putting themselves on display at these things.
Producer Dave
00:05:49.140 - 00:05:50.020
Right, right.
Colin True
00:05:50.260 - 00:06:08.480
So today, producer Dave is going to do a bit of a deep dive into a recent attempt by a brand to show up and the brand itself and determine if they were successful or if the attempt fell flat. And most importantly, we get to judge the brand work of others, which is something that we're really good at. But we're calling the segment the brief.
Dave, why are we calling this the brief?
Producer Dave
00:06:09.519 - 00:07:06.220
To keep it short, Colin. To keep this mercifully short. Well, look, no, all creative begins with the brief, just like product does. Right.
You need to outline what it is you're trying to accomplish, what you want it to feel, feel like, who you're trying to talk to. And oftentimes when you see, say, creative, it maybe doesn't make sense on your first pass.
That, to me, as a creative, would be to look, okay, see if I can't find the brief in there and see what they were trying to do and did they do that or not? Sometimes when you look at creative, the brief is painfully obvious. In fact, it looks like it came directly from the brief.
And the tagline is really a bullet point in that brief. That's not good either. Right.
Creative should take that brief and expand on it and accentuate it and really bring it to places both emotionally and maybe even sometimes rationally. Literally, you know, where the brief left off.
Colin True
00:07:06.380 - 00:07:49.450
Yeah. And I think that's. That's why it's a great. It's the origin, right. It's the start of anything.
And it's like, I'm sure I have said this on the pod a million times whenever we're discussing something that's making us scratch our head was like, what was the brief like? What was like, what was the original thought that led you to this thing? You know?
And so I think that's a great way of kind of titling the segment here. All right, well, at the end, this isn't just a conversation either. At the End of each edition of the brief.
If we decide to do more of these, Dave will be scoring the brand or the product or the campaign. So there is a, there's a, there's an outcome here. All right.
Based off of, you know, what, what his, his observations and how he feels like it all came together. And. Well, Dave, let's just get into it, man. Who's the, who's the brand we're talking about today?
Producer Dave
00:07:50.090 - 00:08:10.810
Okay, well, today, Colin, we're talking about Speedland, right? A new player in the trail running or running segment for sure. I call them small but seriously innovative. And yeah, so they're kind of new. New.
New to the scene. Relatively new to the scene and starting to flex their muscle and starting to message.
Colin True
00:08:10.890 - 00:08:19.620
And we know a little bit about them. They were founded in 2021 by industry veterans Kevin Fallon and Dave Dombro. Or Brow. Do we know if it's bro or brown? Dumb brow.
Producer Dave
00:08:19.860 - 00:08:22.140
I'm sure, I'm sure he would accept.
Colin True
00:08:22.140 - 00:08:23.620
Both Kevin and Dave.
Producer Dave
00:08:23.620 - 00:08:26.100
I think it's proud. I think it's Dumb brow. Yeah.
Colin True
00:08:26.260 - 00:09:19.210
Their take on. Is that running shoes should be. This is one of their sayings, is gear for your feet.
They often get compared to norda, which is kind of a launching around the same time. Another sort of high price, new generation line of footwear that's primarily trail running and focused.
I tested a pair of the Speedland GS RARS or rars. I don't know how you're supposed to say it's for gear and beer. Last year that the short lived podcast that Justin Hausman and I did.
I largely liked them. I liked the shoes quite a bit. I had some notes on the way they looked, but in terms of function and how they felt, they were. They were good and.
But also they're spendy. These are like the Nordas, the pushing 300 bucks a pair kind of kind of shoes. So what was.
And by the way is it's Halsman gave me grief because I kept saying Speedland and he was saying it's Speedland. Do we know? Yeah, there's no definitive answer either. Whatever you want.
Producer Dave
00:09:20.170 - 00:09:23.210
I suppose. So, yeah, I didn't dig onto that.
Colin True
00:09:23.530 - 00:09:27.610
We'll use them interchangeably today. How did Speedland get on your radar?
Producer Dave
00:09:28.170 - 00:09:59.020
Well, it got on my radar cause it was staring at me through my windshield in my car driving up Burnside in Portland, Oregon. And so they are from Portland and I saw this billboard and it kind of stopped me.
And you know, not because it was flashy or even just kind of just over the top there, it was just because it was a Speedland billboard or Speedland billboard. Right. And I just knowing the brand and how kind of, you know, kind of beginning, you know, you could say small.
Colin True
00:09:59.020 - 00:09:59.500
They're small.
Producer Dave
00:09:59.500 - 00:10:06.660
Small, okay. You know, the early stages, I was just like, whoa, a billboard. And you know, of course, I might immediately start kind of racing.
Colin True
00:10:06.660 - 00:10:06.980
Hmm.
Producer Dave
00:10:06.980 - 00:10:39.100
A billboard. Is that the right idea? Like, is that a good use of money? Right. What about the message? You know, and then you. I kind of land on. It's interesting.
I'm still looking. It had kind of like a throwback, old school mountain bike kind of vibe to it from the 90s.
And I don't know if that's good or bad, but that's just where I went. And then I actually saw it again on another part of town. So two billboards. And so now I'm like, oh, my goodness, is this a campaign?
Are the other cities so. Questions, questions. So, yeah, that's where it started from.
Colin True
00:10:39.730 - 00:10:49.010
I'm assuming we're gonna get into was that a good idea or not? Right. Because my knee jerk reaction when I hear that, I mean, frankly, any outdoor brand is putting up billboards is like, what are you doing?
Producer Dave
00:10:49.090 - 00:11:18.670
Oh, see, I like in the biz column, we call them out of home. And the billboard, now I'm a fan because they can be. They're still a mass communication, but you can really tailor them to your, like a zip code.
And so you can really. You know, I love strategies where people put billboards, like outside of the buildings or headquarters of the B2B business.
They're trying score or, you know, things like that, so you can use them. And I suspected that there was something similarly going on here. And we'll talk about that.
Colin True
00:11:18.670 - 00:11:19.350
Okay. All right.
Producer Dave
00:11:19.350 - 00:11:25.470
All right. You can kind of target these pretty well. Even though they do seem like kind of a general purpose.
Colin True
00:11:25.790 - 00:11:47.380
It's not to say that it can't be effective.
I mean, to your point, if you have a very specific use, I mean, like, you know, famously, if you could drive through Los Angeles, you'll see just all who wants to be Emmy nominated or Oscar nominated. Right. They know all the voters live there, so they put up billboards. Right. It makes sense.
But I'm just thinking of a small, upstart footwear brand in its hometown. Like, maybe we could have spent that money other places somewhere else. But we'll get to that.
Producer Dave
00:11:47.380 - 00:12:27.660
It is. And I will say, though, in this case, especially the Burnside location, two things going for it.
Number one, it is right on the way To Forest park, right. One of the biggest urban parks out there. Trails, you know, galore.
So, you know, folks are trailing up there on their bikes, running whatever, just so they're gonna see that. Secondly, it's right outside of where the Timbers play.
So you're going to have, you know, on home games and the thorns as well, you're going to get crowds of like minded, potentially, you know, younger active people, things like that. So it does make sense from the demographic perspective and the traffic flow perspective. But yeah, questions.
Colin True
00:12:27.820 - 00:12:35.980
So. All right, well, what. For the sake of the listeners. And I think these, I saw these too, because they posted them on their Instagram feeds.
You can go find them. But what do the billboards look like?
Producer Dave
00:12:36.300 - 00:13:47.720
Okay, well, the one, they do have multiple kind of executions to this, but we're going to focus just on the one from the, from the billboard. So you got to picture this here. You got us, you got, you got a single road shoe in the middle of the road. And it's their. What is it? Their RX fpy.
It's their new performance run road racing shoe Hyper performance. It's got a high stack 7 millimeter drop. All the, you know, the hybrid kind of trainer racer features to it, but anyway, and the BOA system.
So you have this very technical shoe right in the middle of the road. The road stretches off into the distance into the, into the snowy mountains.
And then coming out of the right side, you've got this wolf, this wolf that is staring down nose to toe of the shoe. And it's a snarling kind of thing. And you kind of pull back, you can see this all going on. And then underneath there it's. Or above it.
Who's afraid of the big bad road? All right, who's afraid of the big bad road? And so now it's part folklore, part fight scene kind of thing.
And you know, you get the reference pretty quickly of what it's going on. But that's a little awkward. That's the boring.
Colin True
00:13:48.040 - 00:13:49.400
The tagline's a little awkward.
Producer Dave
00:13:49.400 - 00:13:49.760
Right?
Colin True
00:13:49.760 - 00:13:58.680
I mean, the wolf and the road, like, just like. Okay, I just, you know, I don't know. But. And also, are we gonna have a chance to talk about naming conventions? Cause I definitely have some notes on.
Producer Dave
00:13:58.680 - 00:14:01.800
Oh, that's a whole different episode.
Colin True
00:14:01.880 - 00:14:02.520
Okay.
Producer Dave
00:14:02.520 - 00:14:10.500
I didn't know had how to pronounce these things. And so that's a branding issue on its own. But you know what if they're trying to come off as super technical and.
Colin True
00:14:10.500 - 00:14:15.140
Techie, There's a bunch of capital letters with Semicolons and stuff.
Producer Dave
00:14:15.380 - 00:14:15.900
Come on.
Colin True
00:14:15.900 - 00:14:20.420
Maybe get a backup. Yeah, it's back to the advice we had for our friends at Coast. It's like just give it a name.
Producer Dave
00:14:21.220 - 00:14:23.540
I'm sorry, Dave, I can't name that.
Colin True
00:14:26.260 - 00:14:30.820
One other question. On the billboard itself, how much AI do you think was used in producing the image?
Producer Dave
00:14:31.940 - 00:14:35.530
Oh, well, who's to say these days? No, it did have a.
Colin True
00:14:36.160 - 00:14:37.120
It looks pretty obvious.
Producer Dave
00:14:37.280 - 00:15:08.280
It does. It does have to. Yeah, for sure. And I would say one of the things of using AI is how can you not make it look AI?
You know, again, I creating this concept. Absolutely. And I'm sure there was some Photoshop work done in terms of the shoe itself, things like that.
But you know, I'm not a most post, especially visually for sure. But it did have again, in a billboard, you're not going to sense that so much.
It's when you can stare at it at an Instagram post, you know, you see it that way that you'll be able to tell a little bit more. But as a, as a visual on a board, I don't think it really coming into play.
Colin True
00:15:08.600 - 00:15:16.360
Okay, so for this edition, for this first edition of the brief, are we talking about the campaign, the billboards, are we talking about the brand? Are we digging into the brand?
Producer Dave
00:15:16.920 - 00:15:18.600
We're talking about the campaign.
Colin True
00:15:18.840 - 00:15:51.320
Okay. All right. So they are related. So why do they deserve this level of spotlight? To your point, I mean, take budget out of it.
I'm sure that like, you know, again, I could see that whatever that line on the spreadsheet was that these billboards cost, maybe it was nothing, maybe it was something. And I'd be like, maybe you could have spent that money somewhere else.
But still, to your point, like if you take what you're saying you want to, you want to target your home audience, you're in areas where, you know, people might be either learning about your product or be want to see your product highlighted to your audience. You know, what makes the brand different? Why do they deserve the spotlight to this degree?
Producer Dave
00:15:51.720 - 00:16:57.760
I think just first off, it is something different. Okay. And so that alone is worthy of mentioning and talking about the strategy of applying a billboard and what I'd call is a concept ad.
Even though it's a product in the middle of this, it's not about feature and benefits. They're not kind of just going over all of these, the carbon plates, all the things that go in it. There are different times for that.
So they are choosing a more of a branded announcement type message. Right.
They're not they're really talking to their own customer right now because they already know that they make high end technical running solutions. They don't need an ad to also say that. Right.
So this is really more of an announcement of taking our trail running routes and now we're moving into this new space. Big bad road also just they're cognizant of the challenges that that might bring to get into that space.
So I think it's definitely an insider's ad, right? No doubt about it. And they're not trying to be. This is not for everyone. It is not a volume broad based message.
They are talking to their own tribe who already know who they are and are gonna get the joke.
Colin True
00:16:57.760 - 00:17:54.120
Well, it's interesting you mentioned they're talking to their own tribe but like we're talking about a four year old brand coming. A four year old brand coming out of COVID that is pretty radically different.
I think one of my takeaways from the GSRAR or whatever it was was the again, great comfort, great fit notes on the look. But also didn't, you know, one of the selling points of Norda is like hey, we're going to get you.
Almost like the lifetime of two shoes and one pair didn't quite get that same. The foam in the speedland was not quite, I feel like it'll last quite as long.
And you're talking about a $300 shoe which by the way, everybody has $300 shoes now. So it's not like that, that's not a new thing.
But when I'm thinking about, you know, the campaign, you know, if you're selling wholesale, if you have a kind of a standard sort of come going to market strategy for a new brand. That's a space that is historically hard to break into. Running shoes. You know, why is this the camp? What, what is the upside?
You feel like what they're trying to do and maybe even then, you know, maybe what's missing the mark.
Producer Dave
00:17:54.680 - 00:18:21.380
Well, like I said, I think what they're doing here is trying to just show up with some authority. They're not trying to over explain. This is an awareness piece. For those that don't know the brand, you're not going to get the whole story.
You're going to have look for more and like I said, for those that do know the brand, it's more of a shot of confidence, right that hey, this is my brand and they go out and willing to kind of take on convention because that's what this is talking about. That's the underlying message. To that.
Colin True
00:18:21.940 - 00:18:22.660
So in terms.
Producer Dave
00:18:22.660 - 00:18:23.300
Yeah, go ahead.
Colin True
00:18:23.380 - 00:18:28.980
Well, as I say so. So kind of experimenting to see what lands more than like really staking a claim at this point.
Producer Dave
00:18:29.140 - 00:19:01.120
I think so. I think so. Again, a billboard is such a very specific medium. I mean this was.
And you know, talking to the brand, we find out that it was really a digital campaign that this was created for. So it really was a larger sense. There are other executions that go with this, but this just happened to hit on the billboard that we ran into.
And so they just applied it. I think that that's the key there. But that's why you do need a very simple message.
You know, seven words or less is typically the standard we use in terms of writing for, you know, headline length on a billboard.
Colin True
00:19:02.240 - 00:19:20.560
So when you, you were looking at it, just kind of putting on your brain head and look, I'm sure you had your own notes in terms of the AI of it all or, or the, or the choices made. But taking it, just, you know, meeting it where it is.
Was there something specific about it that you felt like, hey, this actually feels like the brand, you know, that are kind of getting to know the brand a little bit more?
Producer Dave
00:19:21.120 - 00:20:49.000
Well, yeah, I think so. At first I didn't know what to think. Right. I was just a little bit because of my preconceptions of what a high end technical road trail shoe is.
Right. With Speedland. Okay. Which I was always intrigued by that.
I think their design choices, the fact that they're really like you even you mentioned, you know, it's, it's materials. I mean this is a, this is a top of the pyramid peak technical tool. Right. That's what it is for.
And it's for people who can really pull the benefit of that in terms of their, their sport. So it's not trying to, to be everything. Like I said, the feel of using of the animal as kind of represent.
Represent market or the conditions or the wild feels very much like a, a what I would say a agency conceptualized ad. Right. These are just kind of tactics that agencies use to position products and that's one of them. And you can, you can find that being used a lot.
So that was part of my, you know, like question, what is that going on?
But as I kind of unpeel it or like say look towards the brief, you can definitely see what they're trying to do with this overall message and positioning the brand as taking on convent. It's still a product ad if you look at it. I mean, the center of the image is a Big fat shoe, right? You know what I mean? With a nice image of it.
I mean, it's a clear product shot profile, so there might be stuff going on around it. At the end of the day, the shoe is still the hero.
Colin True
00:20:50.360 - 00:21:13.210
So what let's do, let's go, you know, compare and contrast or pros and cons, whatever. Like what works and what doesn't work.
Like if you were, if they said, hey, you know, creative director, you know, producer Dave, look at what we did, you know, should we do more of this? Like, what, what would, what is the advice you would give them as a creative director?
Like, you know, even if you like some of this, I'm sure there's some of it, you're looking at it going like, well, this missed the mark.
Producer Dave
00:21:13.530 - 00:22:24.560
Well, okay.
I think that's where again, the, the position that they're trying to take the, the idea that you're applying, you're taking advantage of, say, some billboard opportunities, trying to go out there and kind of show some confidence and authority and that, you know, what you might have noticed as a trail, but we, we can also take on the run.
And just knowing that little schism within those communities and the traditional challenges that footwear has getting there, that's such an insider view. That part I'm totally around.
When you're talking about, say, the concept of an animal as a stand in for some kind of, you know, kind of market force here, or just even the pun in terms of, you know, the big bad wolf, that's where I do shy away like, ah, you know, for a brand that is so innovative and truly unique in its, its footwear choices and its product choices, you know, trying to get your messaging to equal that would be, to me, the next step in growth. How do you create communication that's as truly unique and innovative as your product? And I don't. There's no answer to that necessarily right here.
But that's, that's where you want to go.
Colin True
00:22:24.720 - 00:23:44.270
This is a really good point because sometimes when you're on the inside, we've talked about this, right. The whole sort of brand dogma that it's really easy to start drinking when you're at a brand, right.
And you start, you start seeing the world exclusively through the eyes of your own brand. And you know, and by the way, I've done it, everyone I've known, it works at a brand. Does it?
It's really hard to not just sort of kind of buy into all the stuff that you're saying. Yeah. And I think of.
I was on that hike I mentioned a couple of weeks ago up Baldi, which is near la and I was keeping an eye on what folks were wearing up there. I ended up talking to a couple of different ultra runners.
Just like while we were taking a break at one point some guy was training for 100 mile race, has run ultra miles ultra marathons before and I, I actually was hiking in a pair of nordas. He wasn't familiar with the brand. Like this is somebody in the space that you would assume would be familiar with this brand and not familiar.
And I think I got to think Speedland would have been kind of in a similar position. They will know Hoka and Topo and Ultra and these other brands have been around for a lot longer.
But you're talking about a four year old brand where even very core participants in your sport maybe still don't know who you are yet. So to your point, if you're going to take the billboard aside like the campaign, you know you mentioned like it's a digital campaign too.
It still should be primarily about the product and your brand and not so bringing in these other elements to kind of make kind of cute and kind of stuff like that. Right. You guys are still informing the public.
Producer Dave
00:23:44.590 - 00:23:54.510
I would still say that those are brand choices though. Colin by Cho by Even if I don't totally know what that is that you could say is intriguing and makes me want to look up more.
Colin True
00:23:54.670 - 00:23:55.710
The AI Wolf.
Producer Dave
00:23:56.350 - 00:24:09.670
Well, not so much the wolf, it's the positioning. What do you mean by the Big Bad again? They're also just not worried about talking to people who aren't gonna get it. Okay.
And sometimes you've got to speak to someone or you don't, you know you're not going to speak to anyone.
Colin True
00:24:09.670 - 00:24:13.670
Right. It's like they're actually okay with people not being like what the hell is that?
Producer Dave
00:24:13.830 - 00:25:48.550
They, they are. And hopefully those that will on their kind of customer journey towards them will take that time and look, look, couple things about that.
Number one, on, you know, on you know, their, their social media, you know there's thousands of people that have liked what they're doing. So it's clearly it's landed with their community in a way that I was would consider that successful, no doubt about it.
And then secondly, which didn't come up the first time I saw it, but the second time I saw the billboard and this actually might be the truly the most innovative part of the whole idea of the billboard campaign. So they have being a young brand, limited distribution in only certain places they've also kind of discovered a highly technical product like that.
There is a crossover in terms of consumer between say the trail runner and the cyclist. Right. Okay.
And so one of their local retailers, Cycle pdx, came up to them with the idea, what if we tagged the billboard with the retail location that it's available at. And so somebody got up there and graffitied the name of the retailer on there.
And so the first time you see it, it looks like any other billboard in Portland. Somebody's tagged it. Right. So you don't even think about it. But then on second blush there, it's like, oh, that's the retailer.
That was pretty cool because again, it rewarded the attentive reader. And sometimes that can be the most effective hook of all, is when you give someone a little reward for looking again or looking more closely.
And that, that was a really great part of the, the billboard for sure.
Colin True
00:25:48.790 - 00:26:05.810
If you're gonna, okay, you're bringing me around to the billboard idea. If you're gonna go to do something like that, something like that in other markets as well. Right.
Because again, you know, expense, being able to track effectiveness, all that kind of stu budget, it just sort of like, I'm really straining to be like, why are you doing a billboard, guys? But then you're in your hometown.
Producer Dave
00:26:05.810 - 00:26:06.370
Yep.
Colin True
00:26:06.370 - 00:26:16.610
You have a retail partner who's a willing participant. It's almost like reverse co op dollars. You can't give them money to do something like that.
They're like, hey, we'll, we'll, we'll have somebody get up there and tag CO OP$. Right.
Producer Dave
00:26:16.610 - 00:26:16.850
Right.
Colin True
00:26:16.850 - 00:26:19.850
But it's the retail giving the brand dollars in a way. Right.
Producer Dave
00:26:19.850 - 00:26:20.450
No doubt.
Colin True
00:26:20.690 - 00:26:30.850
And, and now it's sort of what it. To your point, you, maybe you didn't notice the first time, but if you're a local and you drive by it again and you're like, oh, wait, what is.
Oh, cycle. I know, Cycle pdx Exact.
Producer Dave
00:26:31.710 - 00:27:20.740
You put it into place oftentimes too in creative, we talk about not completing the circle. Right. You don't want to tell the viewer everything there is in terms of the circle.
You want to leave it just short and let them make that final connection. Because when you make that final connection, it resonates more. It stays with you. You become part of it, part of the message and part of the brand.
And so many brands want to over explain and tell you everything in a single message.
That's why you see billboards with, with 30 word treatises on there or you see print ads or banners that are just filled with so much, it's like, no, sometimes it's best to just withhold a little bit and understand or give your customer the benefit of the doubt that they're gonna be able to make that connection. And when they do, you've got them a lot more deeply.
Colin True
00:27:20.900 - 00:28:06.890
Anyone in our audience who's listening to this and operates in these sort of brand marketing creative space in the industry and if you're listening to maybe some other podcasts that kind feature some of those voices a little more exclusively, listen for what Dave just said. They're going to go to absolute long ass lengths to explain this stuff and justify every single position.
But they do it in a way where they sound intelligent while they're doing is like a hallmark of my career of the overly impressed with themselves marketing person that the new job that I've landed out. You're like, okay, all right, man. Yeah, I hear you.
All right, so this isn't just all your conjecture and like deducing all this from looking at a billboard because you're so good at this. Right? You actually reached out to the brand and spoke to some of the folks over there. How did that go?
Producer Dave
00:28:06.970 - 00:29:53.560
Most of it. Is that Colin? Yes, you're absolutely right. But no, all my intuition, of course not.
To get to the brief, to get to the understanding of why it was created, you've got to talk to those that were a part of, part of making it.
So I did reach out to the brand, talked to Dave Dombrau, one of Speedland's co founders, and what stood out in that conversation was really how I would say, intentionally untraditional. The whole campaign was the billboard, like I said before, wasn't part of this massive media strategy of multi platform.
They were creating this digital first campaign and hey, let's do something cool with that. Hey, there's a billboard up here in town. Let's do it. And so we did.
And then when the local bike shop offered to tag it, which to me that is the best representation of actual retailer tagging that I've ever seen, usually we're putting the logo at the bottom of the banner. No, no, they actually climbed up and tagged it. And now you're getting also too reaching that kind of crossover consumer.
I just, I think that creates now something a little bit more special. Even, even as I look at the concept and the line as being a little bit kind of, kind of middle. But man, that really took it over.
And yeah, so he said, look, they were not trying to educate new customers in terms of the tech specs. They were definitely talking to their existing consumer. They knew that. They knew that Speedland was technical.
And so the creative was really meant to just say, hey, we're coming into rode. And that is loaded with its own kind of sense of meaning and pitfalls. So they wanted to spark the, the, the curiosity.
But yeah, he just admitted we didn't overthink it. We thought it looked cool. It felt right and they rolled with it. And so to that I think they.
Colin True
00:29:53.560 - 00:30:04.880
Got a win in a world of, you know, justified, you know, like big P, big corporately driven press releases about why this marketing performance metrics.
Producer Dave
00:30:04.880 - 00:30:15.440
That's right. You move the needle. 0012 that's right. So we're going to trash all the other stuff because that.0012 is everything thing. Right.
Colin True
00:30:15.440 - 00:30:30.639
It's kind of bringing me around my initial worry. I will say though, you and I see if you agree with me. I, I can't imagine it's gonna be too many more.
Hey, this brand advertised into Billboard stories where you're gonna be like, oh, that was a really good idea. That's pretty rarely gonna be something that we're gonna be on board.
Producer Dave
00:30:30.639 - 00:31:12.880
It is, it is. And that's, you know, that's. Here's the, the big. The. The other word that in terms of this category is risk. Right?
Creative in taking creative screens is a risk. And so there is a real likelihood or, or not a likelihood, but certainly an opportunity for it to miss. And there is a financial implication to that.
There is a reputation implication to that. So. But I think taking the swings is part of it. And you know, look, you're gonna. Creative messaging is a constant communic, constant conversation.
You can't stop. So if you miss, you better keep going. If you hit, you better keep going.
Because the worst thing you can do is to not talk and to not have that conversation. That's where you slide into obscurity.
Colin True
00:31:13.040 - 00:31:51.020
All right, we're going to get in your final analysis and your scoring in a second. Before we do though, talking about the product specifically, and this is not related to your scoring. This is a separate conversation.
But I'm curious because the thing about it, like I said, I have notes on the product because at the end of the day, they say this. They're not caring about making this an everyday shoe. They want to make a great running shoe.
I mean, if you look at a pair of Speedlands, if you just were wearing those out on a random Friday night, you'd get some looks, okay? Like, they've got the boas. They're very technical looking, which is at the gear for your feet and that's what they want.
Which also means that at some point you're, you're going to be limited probably in how many people will buy your shoes because most people buy running shoes to wear around and wear casually.
Producer Dave
00:31:51.500 - 00:31:54.300
Speedman Jungle Mock is on its way. Right.
Colin True
00:31:54.300 - 00:31:56.060
Well, how does, how does the BOA work there?
Producer Dave
00:31:56.300 - 00:31:57.020
I don't know.
Colin True
00:31:58.460 - 00:32:10.860
When you look at the product, I mean, do you think that that's sustainable? I mean, this is a world that like, you know, we have the core people who are like, oh, this is what the industry is.
And we all know that the industry is what the industry is because we're selling millions of units. Right. So.
Producer Dave
00:32:11.020 - 00:32:11.260
Right.
Colin True
00:32:11.340 - 00:32:17.500
This is a high end $300 shoe. You know, that's going to be a tough road to hoe for a while, don't you think?
Producer Dave
00:32:18.140 - 00:32:50.410
Yeah, it is. But you know, I'm a big believer in performance as the foundation of any active lifestyle brand. Right. And so they've got work to do to build that.
If they're starting at the Pinnacle, then that's going to open up doors to other Pinnacle products which then could also broaden without ever actually going downstream or having to, to create a more value driven offering. Right. I think there are ways to do that and you've just gotta be true to who you are. And look, that's also about expectation.
You know, we talk a lot about over making stuff or making too much stuff.
Colin True
00:32:50.410 - 00:32:51.210
Yeah, right, right.
Producer Dave
00:32:51.210 - 00:33:03.210
Well, here's a brand that's not in the danger of over making too much stuff. Right. They making what they know they're doing what they do well. They make a great product and they seem to be content with that.
Colin True
00:33:03.280 - 00:33:40.250
But I love a good footwear war. We were due. You had to go back to 2010, 11, 12, when basically Hoka, Altra and Topo came out.
That time it took a little longer, I think, for Topo to kind of catch up to the other two, but it was a minute of which one's going to win out and now they both have found success. Hoka, obviously is a rocket ship at Ultra. This was reported last week in SGB that they've grown 20% in the past quarter. They're doing great.
So to have two new technical heavy brands between Norda and Speedland kind of angling to do kind of the same thing. I'm here for this ride. I'm excited to watch brands.
Producer Dave
00:33:40.250 - 00:33:49.690
And Colin, we know based on kind of where we were with OMA and everything, this is the year or next year will be the year of the trail shoe. So I think we're going to be.
Colin True
00:33:50.090 - 00:33:51.170
Decade of the trail shoe.
Producer Dave
00:33:51.170 - 00:33:54.910
We're going to be seeing. Well, for sure we're going to see a lot more of these. No doubt of about it.
Colin True
00:33:54.910 - 00:33:58.150
I have my crafts coming. I got a pair of crafts, the craft gravel shoes.
Producer Dave
00:33:58.310 - 00:33:58.870
Okay.
Colin True
00:33:58.950 - 00:34:02.070
How do you think about gravel as a category, Dave, for shoes?
Producer Dave
00:34:02.390 - 00:34:09.350
You know what? We can turn anything into a category. Come on. You need guard rails and storytelling. Come on, let's do it.
Colin True
00:34:09.590 - 00:34:13.750
Is that a future episode of the Rock Fight? Like, let's invent new outdoor categories.
Producer Dave
00:34:14.790 - 00:34:17.790
Yes, yes, I think. All right.
Colin True
00:34:17.790 - 00:34:21.030
All right, let's get into your final analysis here. So how are you breaking this down?
Producer Dave
00:34:21.110 - 00:34:32.230
Okay, so I, I looked at like five or six here, different categories. To look at it first was just straight up originality. Right. You know, was it, is it unique?
Colin True
00:34:32.230 - 00:34:34.670
Sorry to interrupt you. Is this the campaign? We're talking the campaign.
Producer Dave
00:34:34.830 - 00:34:59.830
We're talking about the campaign, the board, the, just the, the execution even, because they all kind of come off of it. Originality. Out of 10. I'm, I'm going to go calling a 6.5, 7.0. Like I said, it's a punny, punny headline. It's the, it's the animal.
You know, in terms of a stand in. It's a familiar structure. So that, that's just kind of where it fits. I mean, it's well, well, well done. Well done.
Colin True
00:34:59.910 - 00:35:01.750
Okay, 6.5 on originality.
Producer Dave
00:35:01.750 - 00:35:22.690
There you go. Brand fit. I'm gonna go up to 8.5.
Like basically the fact that is, it is essentially an insider coded message announcing their kind of movement expansion from trail to road, which in itself is pretty niche and wonky. Let. Right. So it's pretty on brand.
Colin True
00:35:22.850 - 00:35:25.890
Plus they give you a wolf with every pair of shoes that you purchase.
Producer Dave
00:35:26.050 - 00:35:26.810
Now we're talking.
Colin True
00:35:26.810 - 00:35:30.370
Right? That's why, you know, that's why it's 8.5. Be a little lower if you didn't get the free wolf.
Producer Dave
00:35:30.370 - 00:35:30.690
Right.
Colin True
00:35:30.770 - 00:35:31.610
All right, what's next?
Producer Dave
00:35:31.610 - 00:35:55.550
All right, third, I would say just messaging clarity here. I actually, I'm going to go with a seven in the sense that it is definitely prioritizing emotion over information.
That emotion is again, very limited to the right audience and they will get that, that. But I, I do think especially. And again, like, even a billboard structure, you're leaving a lot of people going, what the heck was that?
Colin True
00:35:55.630 - 00:35:56.070
Okay.
Producer Dave
00:35:56.070 - 00:35:56.350
Right.
Colin True
00:35:56.510 - 00:35:59.110
Okay. Next category.
Producer Dave
00:35:59.110 - 00:36:30.439
Yeah, next would be visual, kind of just visual impact and look, it, it stood out. It caught my eye. You've got a big shoe in the middle. You got a wolf coming out the side. That alone is going to grab your attention.
And again, that's why that even from the originality, it works. You know, animals work. So it's like it did a good job of catching my eye.
And like I said, you know, you talked about when you dig into it, is there AI involved it or not? On a billboard. My first blood first kind of. No, it looks like a wolf looking at a shoe. That's what it's supposed to do.
Colin True
00:36:30.520 - 00:36:42.150
Let me just push back on one thing. You said it's a, supposed to be a digital first category campaign. So there you can nitpick it a lot more. And I see what you're saying.
Cause you're driving by it and it's like, holy shit, there's a wolf in a shoe. Right, right.
Producer Dave
00:36:42.150 - 00:36:51.150
But also too, most people aren't nitpicking it even on the digital platform, Colin. They're just. Yeah, right. Most people. I said people with lives are not doing that. They're actually.
Colin True
00:36:52.110 - 00:36:54.110
I have a podcast to produce. God damn it.
Producer Dave
00:36:54.750 - 00:36:56.190
Right, Right.
Colin True
00:36:56.670 - 00:36:58.110
Okay, so eight for Visual Impact.
Producer Dave
00:36:58.110 - 00:37:31.480
There you go. Strategic. Kind of just. Is it clever? You know, kind of thing. And that's. But I'm torn on this one. And in fact, I might, I started a little lower.
I might have to come up to a seven again on this because in one, in one sense it is clever in that they're speaking to that core audience, the retailer tag that comes along with it. That is excellent. But then like I said, it's a well placed metaphor.
It's like, it's not totally clear as to what they, they want beyond the, the, the placement. But no, I think it still, still gives you a seven.
Colin True
00:37:31.640 - 00:37:42.300
Okay, so that means that out of a potential 50 points, 10 points for each category, five categories, they're sitting at 35 out of 50. Not bad. I mean, you're not talking about a brand with a lot of, you know, marketing savvy.
Producer Dave
00:37:42.460 - 00:38:21.690
The last category, though, is an inverse, and it's worth 10 points for how little you have. And this is, I call this the fucks to give, right?
In talking to the brand and talking to the way they come about it and what they're trying to achieve. Do they give a crap that somebody like myself is picking apart the, you know, the nuances of the creative?
Do they care that it speaks to a small group versus a large group? Are they just happy to see their message and their Board and their, their group of core consumers are digging it because they clearly are.
Yeah, right. So I give them. They have zero to give. They do not care. And that's sometimes worth a lot.
Colin True
00:38:21.770 - 00:38:30.010
So is this, this is like a bonus category. Is this like if they had to give, it would be like negative. Like so if they went from 35 to 50, it would like drop their score if they were giving.
Producer Dave
00:38:30.010 - 00:38:44.930
That's right. That's right.
Because sometimes you can tell that brands are being way too cold, cautious, that they're way too concerned what people think and that gives you generic kind of meh. This is just more of that line execution. But the strategy itself, that was, you know, pretty gutsy.
Colin True
00:38:45.170 - 00:39:01.210
Okay. Just for some context for the listeners because I got to think this fucks to give categories being one of these like very gray sort of things.
It's going to ebb and flow a little bit depending on who you're talking about.
But if this is zero fucks to give the north last fall, the North Face had their we played different campaign that we talked a lot about here on the show. You really like?
Producer Dave
00:39:01.840 - 00:39:02.160
Yeah.
Colin True
00:39:02.400 - 00:39:11.040
Is that them giving a lot of fucks because they're like, hey, look, we're still authentic or is that being like, no, we're giving zero fucks because we're just going to keep making cool outdoor stuff and you can judge us all you want.
Producer Dave
00:39:11.200 - 00:39:19.480
I think there's a little bit of that. I mean, look, that, like I said, we talked about that video and it really had a strong. People would call it a Nike esque feel to it.
Colin True
00:39:19.480 - 00:39:19.760
Right.
Producer Dave
00:39:19.760 - 00:39:47.770
And then you dig a little bit into it and you realize the creative team behind it has a lot of Nike experience. They know how to create high level, high emotion, high impact storytelling.
And anytime you're spending that kind of money to create a put a stake in the ground, which is what they were doing with something like that. Yeah, there's, you know what, there's some zero fucks involved in that. Right. Because you're just saying, you know what? We don't care.
We, this is what we stand for. Boom. Good for them.
Colin True
00:39:48.170 - 00:40:02.120
On the flip side, I'd say that Nike's winning isn't for everyone is them giving a lot of fucks because they're trying to gain back authenticity with the core Nike consumers. So years ago that probably would have been a zero fucks to give. Now it's like, oh, it's like a 10.
Producer Dave
00:40:02.600 - 00:40:05.880
It's a requirement now. Now they don't have any choice.
Colin True
00:40:05.960 - 00:40:06.280
Right?
Producer Dave
00:40:06.280 - 00:40:19.320
You guys really care but let's take the Nike. The. You take that in relation to the, the Nike's brand.
Jordan's Too Easy where they have all of the ball players, you know, in the kind of the musical singing Hard Luck Life.
Colin True
00:40:19.800 - 00:40:20.640
Hard knock life.
Producer Dave
00:40:20.640 - 00:40:37.940
Hard knock Life. Thank you. That goes back to classic Nike with zero fucks. Right. It's a musical. I mean on how do you sell that in.
We've got all these high priced and high profile basketball players. Right. It's just like that's, that's the way to do it.
Colin True
00:40:38.580 - 00:40:43.300
All right, so for the first episode or segment, we'll, we'll figure out how this goes of the brief.
Producer Dave
00:40:43.620 - 00:40:44.020
Right?
Colin True
00:40:44.020 - 00:40:55.060
Whatever this is 35 out of 50 for the Speedland Speedland billboard campaign. Mostly I really do like that they had a retailer partner tag it. That was pretty cool.
Producer Dave
00:40:55.300 - 00:40:56.300
Like actually tag.
Colin True
00:40:57.090 - 00:41:01.330
All right, so that'll be the bar. We'll see where the next one comes in. Any, any leads on what the next one could be?
Producer Dave
00:41:01.570 - 00:41:10.370
No, but I, I will tell you that these rating categories will change, probably issue episode by episode. So it's like one of our top five list.
Colin True
00:41:10.450 - 00:41:12.370
Like I don't know, this week we feel this way.
Producer Dave
00:41:12.610 - 00:41:30.590
Right. And I will conclude that all of these observations and opinions and assertions are, are my own and only based on a little bit of research.
So don't get too upset about them. And they could change over time or actually overnight. We'll, we'll see.
Colin True
00:41:30.750 - 00:42:00.770
Listen, this is like everything else we do in the rock fight. We're being honest and we want this industry to be the best version that it can be.
So we might be a little tough, might be some tough love in here, you know, but hey, but if you're at a brand and you want your brand product or campaign to be featured on a, on a future edition of the brief. Myrockflightgmail.com.
you know, this is a way, we get a lot of requests for people to come on and talk about their brand or their products and it doesn't really usually make sense with how we do it, but this is a way for us now we're going to pick it apart. But this is a way to be featured for sure.
Producer Dave
00:42:00.770 - 00:42:03.850
We're not going to pick it apart, Colin. We're going to analyze it.
Colin True
00:42:03.930 - 00:42:07.290
We're going to. Fucking vultures. Picking the bones is what we're going to do.
Producer Dave
00:42:10.330 - 00:42:14.090
And that's why we don't bring salespeople into the creative process.
Colin True
00:42:14.490 - 00:42:21.350
Thank you. Yes. As a former salesperson, I co signed that statement from Dave Karstad.
Producer Dave
00:42:23.110 - 00:42:23.510
Right.
Colin True
00:42:23.750 - 00:42:50.600
Well, good job, buddy. That was a good, good analysis. All right, well, that's the show for today, everybody. We want your emails.
Send them to myrockvlight gmail.com Again if you want to be featured. If you want your brand to be featured. Myrockfightmail.com TheRockfight's a production of Rock Fight.
Locust didn't produce this episode today because he was the featured guest on the episode today. I'm Colin True. So much production art direction today provided by Sarah. That Sarah Genser. I keep remembering that Sarah Gensert.
Producer Dave
00:42:50.600 - 00:42:51.840
That Sarah Gensert.
Colin True
00:42:52.160 - 00:42:59.360
Thank you for listening. And here to take us out is our guy, Kristen makes. And he's gonna sing the rock fight fight song like he always does. And we'll see you next time.
Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:42:59.360 - 00:43:59.490
Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight? Welcome to the ride fight where we speak our truth? Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree?
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