Switchback Spring: Will It Be The Show The Outdoor Industry Needs? Plus: Is REI Going Casual?
- colin7931
- Jun 16
- 43 min read
Today on the show Colin is joined by Monday regulars Producer Dave and Eoin Comerford (who is suffering from a case of outdoor industry insider overexposure) to preview and make predictions for Switchback Spring!
It was about a year ago that The Rock Fight broke the news of a new national outdoor trade show from the organizers of The Running Event and now the event is here!
After hitting a quick Lightning Round of industry topics, the guys get into what they think will go down in Nashville. Here's the rundown, with time codes, for today's episode:
TARIFF WATCH 2025! What does the new trade handshake with China mean for the outdoor industry? (8:00)
According to remarks made by REI CEO Mary Beth Laughton wants the retailer to be more welcoming to casual participants. Does this mean that REI is going to get more casual? (15:10)
Previewing Switchback Spring! What we are expecting from this new show. (27:00)
Our predictions! Colin, Eoin, and Producer Dave all make a prediction for Switchback Spring. (38:27)
The Parting Shot: Colin awards the first ever Rock Fighter of the Week to journalist Maggie Slepian.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:13.600
Oh, this is djct. And welcome back to Rock Fight Radio, where today we're excited to share with you. You guessed it, the latest from Fitz. Here's a little taste of Fitz.
Like youe. Exclusively independent they said make em offshore.
Rock Fight Radio!
00:00:13.600 - 00:00:57.580
You'Ll make it big but comfort don't come from some container gig we stitch with soul, we stitch with pride Here in the States with roots on our side these ain't just socks they're standing fight for the mom and pops keeping fitters right we ain't on the shelf stacked high with the same world with the folks who rem Remember your name we're exclusively independent yeah, we ride for the few not the cheapest, just the realest Mid tight for what you do for the towns that keep the trails that thrive and the rebels keeping dreams alive Stand tall in the shops that care if you want it real you'll find us there fit.
Colin True
00:00:59.700 - 00:01:36.730
Check out all of the hits from Fitz on their Spotify playlist. And now back to the show. Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree.
This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True. And today it's finally here. Because today we're previewing Switchback Spring.
But before we get to that, tomorrow, Tuesday, you're gonna get a new episode of Open Container with host Doug Schnitzbahn here on the Rock Fight Podcast Network. Doug's guest this week. Is that the consigliere's music? You're goddamn right it is. Owen Comerford is on Open Container this week. Check it out.
Wherever you get your podcasts.
Eoin Comerford
00:01:38.170 - 00:01:43.730
I'm officially overexposed. This is it. People are going to be so sick of me. It's. Yeah, that's it.
Colin True
00:01:43.730 - 00:01:47.770
We're kicking you off the pods for a month. For the rest of the summer, you're done after Switchback.
Eoin Comerford
00:01:47.770 - 00:01:48.730
Yeah. Yeah.
Colin True
00:01:49.050 - 00:03:34.460
And lastly, tomorrow's the day.
If you'll be at Switchback, be sure to come hang out with producer Dave Shantae and overexposed Owen and I during the Rock Fight Live, five o' clock in the Trailheads Theater. And be excited if you're not at Switchback, because this is the last time you'll have to hear this promotion. Hope to see you there. Stick around.
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Be a shop floor hero. Endeavor's here to stay. Shop floor hero. Salvu is the way.
Colin True
00:03:47.740 - 00:05:19.170
Okay, so I'm at my local outdoor shop and I see this hydration solution called Hydra Pack. Naturally, I assume it's for safely transporting a hydra. You know, the mythical beast regenerates heads, needs more moisture. Makes sense, right?
Turns out, no, not even close. Hydropack isn't for monsters. It's for humans.
Humans doing all kinds of cool stuff outside running, riding, climbing, thru hiking, even just hiking, you name it. And it's not some glorified water bottle. We're talking about hydration experts who make a modular, reversible PFAS free hydration platform.
We're talking high flow bite valves, plug and play hose systems, collapsible heat resistant, ultra durable TPU reservoirs that practically clean themselves. It's hydration tech so advanced it might as well have been built for a mythical creature.
I mean, did you know that over 90 of your favorite outdoor brands already think so? And they use Hydropak technology in their products. And get this, they even have a retirement program.
Repack takes old bottles from any brand and gives them a second life circularity. No landfill, no dragon hoarding. And retailers Hydropack is accepting new partners for their repack program.
And this is something you definitely want to get on board with. So yeah, not a Hydra pack, but the legendary Hydra Pack.
Learn more@hydra pack.com and hey, if you're wondering how Hydra Pack and the rock fight got together, well, it was because of our mutual friends at Darby Communications. Because finding incredible solutions to get a message out there. That's just what Darby does.
Producer Dave
00:05:20.050 - 00:05:26.590
Colin, that sounds like actually a reason to bring back the action figures. Overexposed, Owen.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:28.510 - 00:05:29.310
No one wants to see it.
Colin True
00:05:29.310 - 00:05:32.870
You know, we'll make an exception for action figures that feature rock fight personalities.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:32.870 - 00:05:33.630
That would be the.
Producer Dave
00:05:33.790 - 00:05:35.310
That's going to be fantastic.
Colin True
00:05:36.590 - 00:05:53.470
All right, it's Monday, and I'm, as you heard here with producer Dave in the consiglierity to the rock fight, Owen Comerford.
And, guys, after a year of waiting, and by the time the listeners are hearing this episode, we'll be in Nashville along with Shantae Salibair for the first day of Switchback Spring. How we feeling? You guys ready? How's Nashville? We're not there yet, but does it feel like we're there already?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:54.450 - 00:05:56.290
I'm sure it's lovely. Yes.
Colin True
00:05:57.250 - 00:06:00.930
We won't know because we'll be stuck inside the same building for three consecutive days.
Producer Dave
00:06:01.970 - 00:06:05.170
I have my Dolly Parton autograph book. I'm ready to go.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:05.890 - 00:06:06.370
Yes.
Colin True
00:06:07.970 - 00:06:19.050
I'm wondering what the over under of how many times Dave drops a Coco reference today for the French Open. Are you going to go full tennis today, Dave? I figured you'd be excited. We haven't talked about two weeks ago. Was it.
Producer Dave
00:06:19.050 - 00:06:22.450
Are you kidding me? I'm already on. Already on to Wimbledon. Let's go.
Colin True
00:06:23.010 - 00:06:26.530
I don't know, man. I don't pay attention to tennis. I just thought this was the opportunity. You're gonna have the talk.
Producer Dave
00:06:26.530 - 00:06:31.170
It's on clay, it's outside. It could be an outdoor event. You're so right.
Colin True
00:06:31.170 - 00:06:32.130
See? See?
Producer Dave
00:06:32.610 - 00:06:35.330
I think the North Face and tennis should definitely try it.
Colin True
00:06:36.130 - 00:06:40.010
Well, they got pickleball going. Maybe they should just move to the correct sport. Tennis.
Producer Dave
00:06:40.010 - 00:06:40.370
Yes.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:40.370 - 00:06:41.730
North Face has got pickleball.
Colin True
00:06:42.050 - 00:06:43.730
Oh, I don't know. Do they? They probably do.
Producer Dave
00:06:43.730 - 00:06:48.610
Oh, stop it. That's. That's how. That's how blasphemous rumors get started.
Colin True
00:06:49.390 - 00:06:50.870
Well, we'll see at the North Face.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:50.870 - 00:06:52.430
Booth to see if there's pickleball.
Colin True
00:06:52.590 - 00:06:57.470
Switchback. If they have the pickleball. Maybe there's a literal pickleball corner in the North Face booth.
Producer Dave
00:06:57.470 - 00:07:05.870
You know, I guess if the way the outdoor industry would do it, we'd actually just have, you know, cucumbers in the garden. In the organic garden that will soon be pickles.
Colin True
00:07:06.830 - 00:07:11.550
I hope we get a cease and desist for the first time. And it's about. You said we had pickleball. We do not have pickleball.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:11.710 - 00:07:12.510
Do we not?
Colin True
00:07:12.910 - 00:07:14.470
We do not. How dare you.
Producer Dave
00:07:14.470 - 00:07:19.790
North Face. If you do not write a retraction to that, we're going to go with it.
Colin True
00:07:20.670 - 00:07:22.390
No, no, no, no, no.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:22.390 - 00:07:26.070
Pickleball. I do not sign up for this. Okay, let's go.
Colin True
00:07:26.070 - 00:07:41.670
Although, last thing before we get into it, we should take note of the amount of pickleball we do see anywhere on the floor at Switchback. I think we need to make sure we take note of that. If there's going to be some. Someone's going to have pickleball there, I think. So.
That's my first prediction. We're going to do predictions later, but that's my first prediction.
Producer Dave
00:07:41.670 - 00:07:44.190
We could have the outdoor brand pickleball contest.
Colin True
00:07:45.350 - 00:07:48.310
Oh, my God. Well, Olakai is the only one who's, like, official, right?
Producer Dave
00:07:48.310 - 00:07:50.550
Well, they're probably seated number one, then.
Colin True
00:07:51.830 - 00:08:16.650
All right, our top story today is presented by your hub for ultralight gear garage, Growing gear. Head to garagegrowingear.com, check them out.
We're going to do a quick rock fight lightning round before we get into our preview of Switchback because there's a couple of topics that had some updates and some stories this week that we want to touch on. Firstly, we have an update to Tariff Watch 2025. I feel like we need a sound effect, actually.
Producer Dave
00:08:16.650 - 00:08:18.130
The sound of a slot machine.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:21.410 - 00:08:27.250
No, it's actually. It's like the chink cha ching in the Trump bank account.
Producer Dave
00:08:27.330 - 00:08:30.850
You know, that's exactly right.
Colin True
00:08:31.410 - 00:08:53.090
It's a big account. It seems that in addition to invading America's second largest city this week, guys, Trump made a deal with China.
With tariffs settling in at 55% with China. Trump has also said that his July 8 deadline for trade deals is likely to push back.
I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but, Owen, what do we know about this particular development? Is this good?
Eoin Comerford
00:08:54.290 - 00:09:01.290
It's not awful. What I would say is it's not a deal. Right? I mean, so the Secretary of Commerce, Howard.
Colin True
00:09:01.290 - 00:09:03.330
It's part of the deal. He's so good at it, though.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:03.330 - 00:11:29.410
I know, but what Secretary of Commerce Howard Ludnick said was that this is a handshake for a framework for a trade deal. So it's like a. Yeah, I mean, it's like a trade deal, as we talked about, actually takes negotiation and time and a lot of work.
This is just basically saying, okay, I think we kind of know what we're going to do here.
And really, probably the big story for a lot of industries, not necessarily the outdoor industry, is the fact that China is now lifting the Export restrictions on rare earth minerals and magnets, which was crippling the auto industry and some of the defense industry, too. But really, I think the big story here is it sounds as if the tariff levels that are here now are going to stick.
Now, can you rely on that from the Trump administration? No, but that is what the current story is. And so that means the Trump administration is talking about this 55% number.
And where they get that is it's the 25% from the prior administration, prior Trump administration, which was the section 232 or 301 tariffs.
And then on top of that, there was the two rounds of the fentanyl supposed tariffs of 10% earlier this year, and then finally the 10% reciprocal tariffs that everybody got. So that's where you get to 55. But that's still a shit ton. I mean, that's a lot talking to brands that are out there.
While there was somewhat of a sigh of relief when the 145% went away, because that was just like, there was no getting around that. That was basically just, we're out of business now. It's like, we may not be out of business right now, but this is not good.
We're going to have to raise prices, et cetera. Because when you think about it, right, like those 55% tariffs are on top of the regular MFN tariffs.
So if, let's say you made a rain jacket in China, okay, you had a 28% MFN tariff, you know, let's say back in 2017, then by 2019, we added on the other tariffs. So now we were at 50, 53%. Okay. And now we're adding another 30% on from 2025. So now we're at 83% tariffs on that rain jacket.
So it's still a lot and is, quite frankly still unsustainable, but just not, not insanely unsustainable, just massively unsustainable.
Colin True
00:11:30.380 - 00:11:44.060
So not to speak for her, but our friend Cassie Abel from Wild Rye, she's been pretty vocal on LinkedIn about the impacts tariffs will have or are having on her business. I mean, she's not really. Cassie's not celebrating today even. There's maybe a tepid sigh of relief or not even.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:45.180 - 00:12:21.330
Not even.
I mean, really what this is doing is, I think for a lot of companies, it's allowing them enough time to hopefully get through the period during which they move everything out of China. I mean, if they can.
And those that are still in China and don't really have opportunities like the folks who are, let's say, like, like a Biolite who basically, if you're in solar power, you're in China. I mean, there are no other options.
And so in those scenarios now, it's just now at least they kind of know what they're dealing with and can decide how they're going to try to tackle it with price increases or cost cutting or whatever.
Colin True
00:12:22.250 - 00:12:53.650
Yeah, I had, I know we had a pretty positive experience at Goa Connect this week, Dave. You were there with the brands you were working with. Sounds like you did as well.
I did speak to one dealer though about the tenor of their meetings and they asked to not be revealed who it was. But one thing they told me was there's a weird combination of people being positive in the aisles and really stressed in one on one meetings.
Price changes are going to be huge. Almost everyone is betting on there only being 10% baseline tariffs. And if it's anything else, it's likely to be chaos.
Would you concur with that assertion, Owen?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:54.610 - 00:13:23.150
I think so, because 10%, while not fun, is at least absorbable because I think a 10% price increase to the consumer is I think as much as you can do in this current environment.
If you start talking about 15, 20, 30% price increases to the consumer, then yikes, the demand elasticity is going to be rough and I think we'll really hear about it and feel it as an industry.
Colin True
00:13:23.870 - 00:13:37.310
Yeah. And I know a lot of reports, you know, like, oh, you know, the consumer confidence is not being impacted by the tariffs. Yeah.
Like footwear prices are remaining stable and it's like, yeah, but we really haven't gotten to the point where they have to change. So that's not really good news. We're not quite there yet. So.
Producer Dave
00:13:37.310 - 00:14:04.620
And I think this also gets to, you know, even, even a lot of these sectors that are made in America, you know, we think they're going to be immune from it. It's the inputs, you know, it's hard to find anything that has, you know, without some kind of, you know, foreign input to it.
And so I think there's going to be a rude awakening when those items also start to see price increases when there's kind of a. I thought it was only going to be, you know, foreign made versus I mean, just look.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:04.620 - 00:14:19.610
At the outdoor industry. Almost all of the goods that we sold in spring, summer, this year were already brought in before the tariffs hit on April 2nd.
So we're not really going to see this until August, September and then it's Going to come on like a. Like a freight train.
Producer Dave
00:14:20.400 - 00:14:38.880
And Colin, you know, kind of talking about the more immediate concerns, I thought the, you know, the reduction in Canadian tourism was probably the bigger even issue, at least for, you know, certain. Certain folks up there in the north. But that definitely was a. Even. A more concerning topic than in. Even tariffs from the retailer side.
Colin True
00:14:40.000 - 00:15:20.060
Oh, that's. Oh, the retailers are bored. The tourism being down. And then. Well, then, yeah, now they're. I mean, we could just keep going on, right?
I mean, now there's new threats to the selling off public lands. They're putting up signs in our national parks, like asking you report on anything negative you hear about.
Like the founders of the country or Americans in general are being disparaged, basically. Historically accurate accounts are asking for you to report on that. I mean, there's just all sorts of things that are. It's not.
They're all tied together so. Well, Tariff Watch 2025 will continue and we'll keep coming back to you as we learn more.
Next up, before we get into our Switchback preview, we're going to talk about something we read this week about REI getting a little more casual, potentially.
Producer Dave
00:15:20.660 - 00:15:21.620
What was that, Colin?
Colin True
00:15:22.260 - 00:15:23.020
Did you want to.
Producer Dave
00:15:23.020 - 00:15:24.500
Did you say more casual?
Colin True
00:15:25.780 - 00:15:26.580
Yes, I did that.
Producer Dave
00:15:26.580 - 00:15:26.860
Really?
Colin True
00:15:26.860 - 00:15:27.620
That was the headline.
Producer Dave
00:15:27.620 - 00:15:37.140
Really? Yeah. Because if REI gets any more casual, they're going to need to trade in those green vests for Speedos and fanny packs. How do you get more casual?
Colin True
00:15:38.180 - 00:15:42.900
I thought that was Owen's joke. I'm like, I was trying to tee it up. I didn't know it was yours. You never write anything in the outline.
Producer Dave
00:15:43.540 - 00:15:45.420
I know I don't, but I say.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:45.420 - 00:15:50.900
That I am the measured one. That's true.
Colin True
00:15:50.900 - 00:15:53.680
That was a classic. How casual are they?
Producer Dave
00:15:53.840 - 00:15:56.640
Right? That's right. It sure was.
Colin True
00:15:59.600 - 00:16:40.030
Well, according to a recap on Shopee Surf Outdoor, during her conversation with Luis Benitez at the Outside Festival, new REI CEO Mary Beth Laughton told Luis that REI needs to be more welcoming to casual participants. Mb, as she goes by, said, quote, we as an industry need to embrace them and really welcome them into the outdoors.
For rei, we need to be relevant for someone who's going to climb a 14er. But we also need to be relevant for somebody who's going to take a hike in their neighborhood park, and we need to be able to serve them.
We need them to feel welcomed into our industry, end quote. While that is a broad statement, you know, Owen, you posted about this on LinkedIn this past week.
What's the subtext that you're picking up and what MB is saying.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:41.310 - 00:17:17.300
Well, I think it all depends upon how you go about what she's saying. And, hey, there hasn't been a bigger proponent for being a more welcoming, inclusive outdoor industry than myself.
And not just dating back a couple of years.
And we're talking going back 10, 15 years to where not making just people feel welcome in the outdoors from all backgrounds, skill levels, ethnicities, you name it. I think we still have work to do there. And if this is REI making moves in that direction, then that is awesome. Yeah.
Colin True
00:17:17.300 - 00:17:18.020
Kudos for sure.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:18.020 - 00:19:15.010
Right? Absolutely. I think it really, though, comes down to how.
So if it's about training the green vest to be more welcoming or increasing diversity and hiring and those sorts of things. Awesome. Totally great, right? If it's more inclusive and representative marketing, that's great.
But you don't want to see it too watered down in terms of the brand. Like, there was one brand who will remain nameless that we saw at GOA that had. It was, well, we'll tell you the tagline. You can look it up.
But it was from mountain heights to city lights, and it was a woman standing with a glass of Merlot.
And it's like, I get it, and that's fine, but really, I mean, let's keep the pinnacle advertising up there, even if ultimately that's where it's going to get used. I think that's a mistake when you make that kind of a shift. The other thing, it could be around how you're laying out the store.
That was one thought I had, because typically REI stores, at least that I've seen you go in, and it's all backpacking stuff, backpacking food and gear and stuff, which tells everybody, hey, this is a backpacking store. Maybe that needs to be softened with some more accessible product, apparel, et cetera.
I think where it's a slippery slope, though, is when you start talking assortment and you start saying, well, you know what? We're going to add more running shoes on an hoka, and we're going to push out more hiking boots. Right.
We're going to cut out overnight packs so that there's room for travel packs and travel and just regular travel accessories. We're going to cut out core outdoor brands for really lifestyle fashion apparel. That's, I think, where it gets a little bit trickier.
Where is that inclusivity or is that watering down of. Of the core mission of rei? So that's the question for me.
Colin True
00:19:15.730 - 00:20:49.850
Yeah. And I don't want to put words in MB's mouth. And like I said, it's, it's pretty, it was a broad statement. It can be interpreted a lot of ways.
And I'm right there with you. I think that that is a, the, and a lot of the comments sort of reflect this on your LinkedIn posts.
And we hear this a lot again about the, oh, that's not. The industry is not as core as it used to be. And I, my contention on that is like, actually I think it's probably the same.
I think it's the way the industry is marketed and I think it's the way it's what you put out to the, the what's your public facing image of yourself.
We had this conversation with Chris Spire and he's talking about like, look, you know, NBC is a camp, hike, backpack, climb, shop, kayaks, like those kinds of things.
And people who don't do those things tend to find their way in because it's aspirational and they, maybe they, maybe they don't do any of those activities, but they still like to shop there.
I think there's a general trend to that in the outdoor industry and at outdoor retail is that even if you are not a participant, it's fun to go in these stores and shop and then like, oh, and here's a shirt that I can wear too. And so if MB's comments are more like, yeah, we just want to be more welcoming, which is a, which is the right thing to say.
And we want more people to participate and this becomes the sort of inside baseball.
People who just don't like to hear that are going to be nitpicky about, oh, you're saying that you're going to be putting, you know, more casual brands in rei. It's like, well, that's your point. Like that would be the wrong choice.
But I, you know, I would think brands just need to kind of understand their position of the brand and what makes sense to put out to the public. And if you're a gear brand, you're an outdoor brand.
Present as an outdoor brand so far over 50 years, we haven't had any problems selling softer stuff as outdoor brands. So I think that's kind of what it comes down to. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:49.850 - 00:22:11.440
And I think that part of the problem is probably most acute actually around women's apparel because, you know, for a lot of women that will come into an outdoor store or an REI or whatever and be more than happy looking at all of the jackets there, in winter they'll put on whatever the puffy from, you name it North Face, Patagonia, Rab, what have you, when it comes to the summer, they won't be caught dead in anything that those brands typically have as part of their core selection. They don't want plaid, they don't want convertible pants, they don't want any of that.
Look, I think the good news is that there are brands out there that are actually addressing that very issue. Brands that are typically actually by women for women, like Wild Rye, hikerkind half days, scenic, etc.
Where they're saying, hey, we're going to take performance product that you can use for hiking and all these other things, but we're going to add more style, better fit, et cetera. But it's still an outdoor brand selling an outdoor product to be used in the outdoors as opposed to a fashion brand that has outdoor overtones. Right.
Like Sendero or Free People. And I'm not knocking those brands. Those are great brands.
I'm just saying if that's what we become though, as an industry, then I think we have, we have challenges.
Colin True
00:22:11.840 - 00:22:34.810
Yeah, I guess I bristle is like the same. Even if REI goes to the place where you're calling a slippery slope is the kind of, the comments of like, this is why core participation is dropping.
And those sorts of comments, it's like, really? Because, like, free people would be available in rei, that means that people are going to stop going rock climbing more.
I'm like, I just don't buy those dots that are being connected by some people. But, you know, ultimately we'll see how this plays out.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:34.810 - 00:22:58.390
By the way, this is not just an REI conversation. Right.
In terms of this sort of casualization, lifestyleization, whatever you want to call it, of the outdoor retail, this is happening in specialty, it's happening elsewhere. So yeah, I don't want people to think we're just picking on rei.
It's just, it just came up as a topic simply because of the, of the comments that were made.
Colin True
00:22:58.870 - 00:23:29.130
Right, yeah, no, it's a good point. Back to our pickleball conversation. I routinely get PR pitches from outside PR companies or, you know, you know, agencies for their pickleball line.
Right.
It's like that is all my bias aside, like that is showing like they are trying to find new and different things that are kind of playing in the outdoor space. And clearly they saw an opportunity to rep this brand of paddle or whatever. And I'm always very kind and I just ignore those emails.
I don't say anything. I ghost you. That's what I do.
Producer Dave
00:23:29.130 - 00:24:50.170
I think this is the tension between inclusivity and trying to be all things to all people. Right. And that's where you get into the brand issue. That's where you get into the assortment issue.
You know, I think that REI can be inclusive and they can have things for everybody along the spectrum of core equipment to lifestyle apparel, let's just call it that. But how they segment that in the store, how if they're willing to create sections and areas that might be confusing if you're not a core user.
And that's okay. Right.
But it doesn't necessarily mean it's a gatekeeping or something to push away because they've merchandised the store in other ways, in other areas for people to feel like they can navigate them through. And in that messaging, it's not a single message. Stop trying to find one message that's going to work for everybody.
Let your brand have very deep vertical sides to it that only talk to those type of customers that you have. And, and, and just it's, it takes, it's harder work. It takes more effort to create, to craft those specific messages.
But to me, that's how you navigate something like that and try to keep, be inclusive to everyone, but at the same time not try to be just generic. Right, Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:50.170 - 00:25:13.610
I mean, what it comes down to for me is just because you can sell something to a customer doesn't mean that you should. Or the sort of.
The corollary to that is just because one of your customers buys this thing somewhere else in their life doesn't mean they're looking for it from you. Right? Right. And maybe they come to you for something else and you're special to them for that, not just for all things.
Colin True
00:25:14.300 - 00:25:38.460
So, yeah, if you want to see why we're decided to talk about this today, go check out Owen's LinkedIn page. You should follow him on LinkedIn if you're not already. He's the outdoor industry insider.
And a lot of times there's stuff that's kind of just thrown out there that we don't ever talk about. On the rock fight, there's plenty of times like, oh, 100 people weighed in on this one. Clearly people are interested in this topic.
So this is an example. This is one of those. But there is a retailer guys that we don't have to ever worry about being soft. You know who that is, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:25:39.260 - 00:25:43.290
Would it have the initials G? G And then G. You should ask.
Colin True
00:25:43.290 - 00:26:20.830
Shante Salibair about that. She has a. She knows all about ggg. Yes, Garage grown gear.
They bring you the best in ultralight backpacking gear from the most innovative to the most quirky. Coffee in paste form. Yes. A special key that opens your bear can lid that doubles as a mini cutting board. Yes.
A tiny tool that cleans your tent stakes. That sounds a little unnecessary. Yes. Discover this new gear and so much more overhead. G travel there via the link in the show notes.
Head to garagegrowngear.com I was thinking, you know how like sometimes you get a steakhouse and it has like somebody's name in front of it, like Owen Comerford's like Michigan Steakhouse or whatever.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:20.830 - 00:26:21.030
Sure.
Colin True
00:26:21.030 - 00:26:26.310
Oh, I think we should change it to Lloyd Vogel's Garage Growing Gear. I think that actually just rolls off the tongue.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:27.430 - 00:26:31.750
It was funny to see Lloyd in person for the first time this last week.
Colin True
00:26:31.990 - 00:26:33.350
Did you just call Lloyd funny looking?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:33.830 - 00:26:39.230
He is. Well, he's very smooth skinned. Wind. Did you notice how smooth the skin glow?
Producer Dave
00:26:41.310 - 00:26:44.510
That was the first thing that comes from that mountain air, Colin.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:44.590 - 00:26:47.630
I. I think it is. Yeah. No, it is.
Colin True
00:26:47.630 - 00:26:56.630
It was weird. I definitely saw a few people this week who I've never met in person. And that's going to happen again next week at Switchback.
This is where we've been the last five, six years in the outdoor industry, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:56.630 - 00:26:58.510
Doing in person interviews. It was wild.
Colin True
00:26:58.990 - 00:27:49.970
It was crazy doing that.
All right, the next topic is presented by Lem's Footwear, who's looking for retailers to come say hi and see what Lemz can offer their shoe wall when they exhibiting at Switchback this week. Like we said at the top, by the time you hear this episode, we'll be in Nashville for Switchback.
Newer listeners may not know this, but news that a new national trade show brought to us by the organizers of the running event broke last year right here on the Rock Fight. But the time for conjecture is at an end because the show is finally here. So let's talk about. Let's preview the show. Let's start with who's going.
According to show organizers, the show is sold out. From an exhibition point of view, nearly 200 brands will be exhibiting.
And if you're listening and wondering, yes, it's the who's who of outdoor brands you'd want to see at an outdoor trade show, but also plenty of small brands. Owen, let's start with you on this. Are you surprised that Switchback was able to pull together this list of brands for year one?
Eoin Comerford
00:27:51.410 - 00:28:57.610
Yeah, actually, me too. Right?
I mean, we haven't seen a brand gathering like this in a national show for at least six or seven years, like 2019, even before that, yeah, I mean, things had started to slow down in terms of. Of the show before that, I would say. So really, as I look at it, what happened here was there is.
And there was this growing sense within the industry we need to come together. Like everyone you talk to all the time, like, we really miss getting together. Da, da, da.
And then I think the early involvement of OIA and rei, both of those really kind of moved the needle and just everyone sort of said, okay, well, if we're going to give this a shot again as a industry, this is it, and we're going to give it a go. So, yeah, I know a lot of folks. And then I think when those big brands joined, a lot of the little guys were like, oh, well, okay, if, you know, if.
Whatever. North Face and Arc' Teryx and Marmot and Merrill and Mountain harbor, if they're all gonna be there, well, I guess I should probably show up, too.
Colin True
00:28:58.010 - 00:29:11.780
Dave, what are you looking for from the brands at this show? I mean, booth sizes are gonna be limited. It's year one, right.
So this is the first big show where these brands have churned up for a while, at least altogether. What will be success in your eyes and what do you think? What would be disappointment?
Producer Dave
00:29:12.660 - 00:30:18.460
Well, I think you guys were just kind of talking about it just a second ago. I think there's the energy, right?
Does this create a place where brands want to be, where the industry can connect and kind of, I don't know, build some momentum? There's, you know, we talk on this podcast.
There's a lot of not great things going on in the economy or the industry itself, and trends of just in general, terrible launch. 20, you know, just to have a chance to come together and talk about the, you know, where this could go in a positive sense and what are we doing.
Right. And I think that's a big. A big need that we've had for a while. I'm also interested in. I like the limited booth concept.
I think guardrails foster creativity. So it's like, who is going to take that and run with it in an unexpected way? And somebody's gonna. Someone's gonna do well with it and show people.
Oh, yeah. You know, if you. If you lean into this a little bit, you can really create a stand experience and.
But if you're just going to show somebody, you know, putting their hands over their head, looking at a sunset, it's going to be a lot of the same.
Colin True
00:30:19.500 - 00:30:20.620
This is the outdoor industry.
Producer Dave
00:30:20.620 - 00:30:21.700
Well, I know. We love.
Colin True
00:30:21.700 - 00:30:22.340
We will definitely.
Producer Dave
00:30:22.340 - 00:30:26.020
We love us a Good sunset, you know, shot from behind. That's right.
Colin True
00:30:26.020 - 00:30:33.180
What, what do you think has to happen for you to walk away disappointed in the show? Like next week, what are you gonna be like? And they just didn't get there. Is there, is there anything in particular? Is it.
Producer Dave
00:30:33.180 - 00:30:43.880
Well, I do, I think how much our brands are they just ticking the box and showing up because they feel like they have to, so they send a rep who sits on a stool and you know, looks at meager just.
Colin True
00:30:44.120 - 00:30:45.440
To find those guys, you know they're.
Producer Dave
00:30:45.440 - 00:30:46.040
Going to be there.
Colin True
00:30:46.040 - 00:30:47.560
Oh yeah, the guy on his laptop.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:48.120 - 00:30:48.520
Right.
Producer Dave
00:30:49.160 - 00:31:19.810
So is it that or are brands putting some creative energy and again, money isn't the only way that makes that work. It certainly helps. But you know, who is, who's playing to the format and who sees the real value of being there?
Because I'm skeptical that orders are going to be written. It's going to be that type of show just based on the time frame and just all of that.
But, but so how are retailers and brands going to be finding value from that? How are the sales folks going to respond?
Colin True
00:31:20.130 - 00:32:02.190
Right, well, good segue into who else is coming. The other side of the coin here on attendance is who's coming from the retail perspective in terms of finding value in the show.
The only consistent criticism of the show since it was announced and there's been many, but this one really consistently has been holding it in June. We've seen a list of dealers who are coming. Like I mentioned a few weeks ago, it was okay at best, a little more on the meager side.
But it does seem that the most recent report that seems to be improving.
I've never heard a brand or retailer say they want a national show like this to be in June, but yet here we are with the brands and retailers turning up. You know, Owen has Switchbox, has Switchback successfully called the bluff of the industry by getting these people to show up in June?
Eoin Comerford
00:32:02.750 - 00:32:59.190
Yeah. But I'm not sure for how long. Right. I think they get sort of a grace period here.
But if ultimately it's just another show that is in June along with everything else and doesn't add a ton of value, then it may be short lived, quite frankly. So we'll see. And I guess I think we really do the bit like we know who's going to be there from a brand perspective.
I think the retailer piece is much more. We'll see. Right. And how, how is it going to, how is it going to feel? Right.
Is it going to be like the old days at These national trade shows where you're like, you can barely move through the aisles, right? I don't think we're going to have that, you know, year one and, and nor should we expect that. I mean, fair to a show, right?
You got to give time for these things to incubate a little bit. But will there be a buzz? Will there be an energy and will it feel like a lively show?
Colin True
00:33:00.790 - 00:33:15.960
Dave, you work with some brands. What is the vibe of that when you talk to the reps who you've had a chance to speak to in the last week, especially being at Goa?
Any chatter on the retail attendance, on the prospects for, for switchback?
Producer Dave
00:33:15.960 - 00:33:32.200
I think it's just such a wait and see. How can anybody really, you know, be that clairvoyant in this? Right.
You know, love you sales reps, but most of you are pretty guarded in your comments and, and if not, if not cynical. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:32.360 - 00:33:34.200
You know, do we, do we need.
Producer Dave
00:33:34.200 - 00:34:00.610
Another show at all? And June is awful month and you know, the sky is falling. But no, I, I lit. I, I think we've kind of, there is this, we want this to work.
We want a place that we can kind of call our own and, and point to again, like, like, like there was and we'll see if that happens. And like I said, but, but the commerce and the functionality have to work together again.
Colin True
00:34:00.610 - 00:34:24.639
Good segue. Last week at Gway Connect, you know, Owen and I interviewed multiple brands. We were on the floor chatting with folks.
While we were there, we had several brands tell us flat out that the show has, and this is including a couple who are exhibiting this year, the show has to move to August, including one that said they would possibly spearhead an organized brand effort to voice the desire for the show to move to August. You know, didn't say use the word petition, but kind of sounded like a petition.
Producer Dave
00:34:24.639 - 00:34:26.079
Is that like concept of a plan?
Colin True
00:34:26.799 - 00:34:49.580
It's a. We have the concept of a plan. Yes. You know, after eight years or whatever that was. So.
Which is probably pretty similar now, if the show goes well and if we leave Nashville on a hotel, I mean, do you guys think these efforts get traction? I mean, won't the leverage go to the show right at that point? Because if they nail it and they sold it out next year, they come back.
Why would you want to move it if it worked so well the first time?
Eoin Comerford
00:34:51.020 - 00:35:01.260
Fair point.
I think actually though, and maybe ironically, the lack of order writing at the show, which I think will be the case, because that's the kind of show it's Going to be for a lot of people.
Colin True
00:35:01.260 - 00:35:02.180
That's what national shows are.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:02.180 - 00:35:59.590
Yeah. Right. Will actually be just further proof that it doesn't need to be in June. Right.
Right now, I think that there's a different expectation for the emerging brands versus the established brands. Right. The emerging brands absolutely want orders. They want to meet buyers.
They want to meet the people from Dick's and from REI and from Shields and all these big guys and all the specialty people, too. Right. They want orders and they want connections. And you know what? Those orders can.
You can still take those orders in July or August because it's not like you've spent all your open buy.
These are going to be relatively small opening orders that most buyers can fit in at that point because they've made the rest of their orders with the established brands. The established brands.
Again, they've already seen probably most of these retailers, so it'll be less about writing orders for them, more about did some of the big people come out and did they get to sit down and have meaningful conversations about the business side versus the order side?
Colin True
00:36:00.630 - 00:36:28.690
Yeah.
I always tell the story about learning the value of the national show by my time at probar when we tried really hard for several shows to get orders out. Outdoor retailer. And even though we had great reps with, you have to give me paper at the show type programs and, like, compelling programs. Right.
Retailers just didn't want to do it. And I took that as like, okay, this is not a show where people want to write orders anymore. And we were a small brand.
The thing I probably don't say often enough as an addendum to that story is we got the orders after the show.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:28.930 - 00:36:29.250
Right.
Colin True
00:36:29.250 - 00:36:42.890
It's kind of like, you know, we didn't just say, like, well, we didn't get any of those orders. Like, all the reps followed up with everybody who were interested in the program.
And we decided, decided to eat a little crow and extend the program beyond the show. And we got the orders. So I think it's a good point for sure.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:43.770 - 00:36:50.330
As a retailer, I've never found, once a discount offer is placed that doesn't exist, it's out there.
Colin True
00:36:50.330 - 00:36:51.930
It's out there 18 months later.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:51.930 - 00:37:01.010
Right. Hey, you were willing to give us an extra 2% then. Well, by golly, I'm guessing you're going to give us an extra 2%. Now, I found this paper.
Colin True
00:37:01.010 - 00:37:06.570
It says January 1997, 25% off. I think you need to honor this, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:37:06.570 - 00:37:07.290
Absolutely.
Colin True
00:37:08.490 - 00:37:36.140
Okay. All right. We're gonna get into our predictions for the Show.
But before we do that, be first to experience Lem's bold new product line at the Switchback event in Nashville this week.
Get an exclusive preview of their fall winter 25 lineup, including but not limited to the Trail Thrasher cutting edge tactical boots and numerous styles featuring rugged Vibram outsoles. They're stoked to see you there and stoked to show you what's to come. The Trail Thrasher, is that a name.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:36.140 - 00:37:37.220
Of a style.
Colin True
00:37:39.380 - 00:37:41.020
Of a cutting edge tactical boot?
Eoin Comerford
00:37:41.020 - 00:37:42.980
It's a cutting edge tactical boot, Colin.
Colin True
00:37:43.540 - 00:37:44.020
Yep.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:44.020 - 00:37:44.500
Okay.
Colin True
00:37:44.500 - 00:37:46.620
It's featuring rugged beaver mount soles.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:46.620 - 00:37:47.140
Interesting.
Colin True
00:37:48.260 - 00:37:56.260
I'd actually be interested in putting those on. Giving how well lenses fit, I'm sure. Curious what they feel like. We'll see. Maybe. Maybe they'll have pairs for us to try on.
Producer Dave
00:37:56.260 - 00:37:59.260
Like a thrash. Like a Thrash trail.
Colin True
00:38:00.460 - 00:38:01.820
God, you know what these feel like.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:02.060 - 00:38:05.460
Can't trash the trail, though. That would be bad that we thrashed.
Producer Dave
00:38:05.460 - 00:38:07.260
It's not trashed. It's thrashed.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:07.260 - 00:38:07.820
Thrashed.
Colin True
00:38:08.300 - 00:38:10.020
That H does a lot of heavy lifting.
Producer Dave
00:38:10.020 - 00:38:14.620
Is overused with love. Trashed is an indiscriminate abomination.
Colin True
00:38:15.500 - 00:38:17.780
So my early 20s, I was thrashed.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:17.780 - 00:38:18.220
Yes.
Producer Dave
00:38:18.380 - 00:38:18.780
Right.
Colin True
00:38:18.860 - 00:38:19.820
Or trashed.
Producer Dave
00:38:19.980 - 00:38:23.020
Well, you know, one begets the other.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:23.020 - 00:38:24.380
Hopefully both in the same night.
Producer Dave
00:38:24.620 - 00:38:25.180
That's right.
Colin True
00:38:25.180 - 00:38:48.720
That's true. Yeah. There's a few for sure. Sure. Okay, last section of the pod today.
Today's switchback spring predictions are presented by Oboz, the pride of Bozeman, Montana, who is also the cupid to the outdoor world.
Okay, so we're, you know, as this airs, we're sitting right now in the future in an air conditioned hall in Nashville, Tennessee, listening to people like Owen Comerford give advice to retailers and brands at moderated panels on the day one of the show.
Producer Dave
00:38:48.800 - 00:38:49.480
Solid advice.
Colin True
00:38:49.480 - 00:38:54.480
So I asked. Dude, such good advice. You guys should see what he's saying right now. It's incredible.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:54.800 - 00:38:55.560
Let me tell you.
Colin True
00:38:55.560 - 00:39:07.820
So I asked each of you, Dave and Owen, to bring one prediction for Switchback spring. And when we recap the show later this week, we can check in on them and see what comes true. Dave, what's your prediction for switchback spring?
Producer Dave
00:39:08.380 - 00:39:16.940
There's so many. I predict that there will be a booth that is built entirely from reused and recycled packaging.
Colin True
00:39:17.740 - 00:39:21.340
Come on. That's not a good. How many of those booths will there be?
Producer Dave
00:39:21.340 - 00:39:40.590
You did not ask if it was an exclusive. You just asked for a prediction.
So I am saying I could further it down to perhaps there'll be a booth with oversized letters made from recycled materials. That could be right. We could see that maybe the combination go together. But I'm just saying, I'm putting it out there. It'll show up.
Colin True
00:39:41.390 - 00:39:54.490
Yeah. We should tell everybody listening who maybe works on the booth side of a brand.
This is the last show the rock fight will attend without we approve stickers or booth. We are going to be handing out.
Producer Dave
00:39:54.640 - 00:39:58.160
Out, you know, Booth MacGyver will return.
Colin True
00:39:58.720 - 00:39:59.160
Yes.
Producer Dave
00:39:59.160 - 00:40:01.200
Yes, that's right. Trade show critic.
Colin True
00:40:01.200 - 00:40:01.720
We will be there.
Producer Dave
00:40:01.720 - 00:40:02.120
You bet.
Colin True
00:40:02.120 - 00:40:05.960
Yeah. If. If there's no more BOB Awards, we'll be the BOB Awards.
Producer Dave
00:40:05.960 - 00:40:06.480
That's right.
Colin True
00:40:06.640 - 00:40:07.920
And we're not gonna be as nice.
Producer Dave
00:40:09.440 - 00:40:10.400
We're gonna be fair.
Colin True
00:40:11.200 - 00:40:12.720
Best use of oversized letters.
Producer Dave
00:40:12.720 - 00:40:13.840
Yeah, right.
Colin True
00:40:15.600 - 00:40:16.880
Oh, and what's your prediction?
Eoin Comerford
00:40:17.120 - 00:40:35.800
I predict that there will be at least 50 comments during the week that we will overhear about people complaining about the fact that an outdoor industry show is taking place in a fake outdoor setting. That is the Gaylord Opryland whatever the hell it is thing.
Colin True
00:40:36.119 - 00:40:37.160
Tell the listeners what.
Producer Dave
00:40:37.320 - 00:40:41.160
I'm so excited for this. I have to say that's the best part about all of this.
Colin True
00:40:41.800 - 00:40:44.600
It's like Southeast Vegas or something. What's happened?
Eoin Comerford
00:40:45.000 - 00:40:47.250
Have you been to a Gaylord property? Property?
Colin True
00:40:47.570 - 00:40:47.970
Never.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:48.130 - 00:40:51.810
It's. It's wild. So it's a huge glass enclosed.
Producer Dave
00:40:52.050 - 00:40:53.970
It's. It's a holodome dome.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:54.130 - 00:41:06.770
It is like a huge glass enclosed dome. All, you know, air conditioned whatever else. And then there's all of these buildings and what have you and trees and, you know, there's.
There's rivers and lakes and ponds and all this.
Producer Dave
00:41:06.770 - 00:41:11.970
It's like Willy Wonka. Colin, you're right. There's a chocolate river that runs into some kind of acid trip.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:12.610 - 00:41:13.090
Absolutely.
Colin True
00:41:13.160 - 00:41:13.480
Absolutely.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:15.000 - 00:41:38.710
So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. Like, I think, you know, my. I'm sure we're not taking over the whole Opryland thing, if that would be sort of cool.
Because then it could just, like, do a total takeover. Like, we're not just going to have the. Whatever.
They have the gondolas going through the fake river, but we would actually have kayaks and we would, you know, have all. We would have people rappelling down the side of the main floating booth of the opera.
Colin True
00:41:41.500 - 00:41:41.740
So.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:42.300 - 00:41:45.700
Yeah. So. But I. 50 comments is my.
Colin True
00:41:45.700 - 00:41:46.940
That's your. That's the over under.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:47.420 - 00:41:49.980
Yeah. And just like, I might take the over.
Colin True
00:41:49.980 - 00:42:08.460
You're right. Because as much as I've been a fan, I loved the On Snow demo and the. All the stuff in Salt Lake. It's great to have that. Not Necessary. Right.
Like just put the trade show where it's easy to get to. It's a great, nice to have. And I guess you could make the argument it's necessary, but someone disagrees with me out there for sure.
And I think you're right. I think we're going to hear that quite a bit.
Producer Dave
00:42:08.460 - 00:42:20.760
When you asked for Prediction, Colin, one of my predictions was that we will get a load of heartfelt, thoughtful comments and critiques that are contradictory to one another. That definitely fits right into that as well.
Colin True
00:42:21.560 - 00:42:34.760
That's it.
Talking with both Sean Smith from Outdoor Retailer and Christina Henderson from Switchback over the last year, those are probably the two hardest positions in the entire outdoor industry because there is never consensus on the things that they have to make decisions.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:34.920 - 00:42:36.160
Absolutely not. No.
Colin True
00:42:36.160 - 00:44:00.170
Right. Everything is damned if you do, damned if you don't.
You know, as I lead into my prediction, the one thing I will say, which is why that kind of supports the prediction I'm gonna make, that this is starting to feel kind of like or used to feel. I've received at least three text messages in the last 24 hours. Hey, when are you getting there?
Like, we gotta meet up for coffee, we gotta meet up for beer. Which is exactly what would happen before Outdoor Retailer back in the day. Like, where are you staying? Which I thought was kind of funny.
Cause I have friends who were staying not at the, at the Gaylord. Like, wasn't that the point? Was the point. So we were all in the same place, but maybe they didn't bother it soon enough.
So my prediction is I, I think it's going to work. I think I'm going to say 50. 50. It moves out of June. Is my prediction there? I, I don't know.
But I also don't know if it, I also don't think it'll matter. I think if the show hits and everyone's cups are filled, if the show doesn't move, people will complain.
Maybe there'll be a concerted effort by brands to get them to move.
I think the FOMO alone for year two, especially for the maybe few people who didn't show up Patagonia, would make it likely that everyone comes back for year two.
Now, there might not be a lot of appetite to go on beyond that, but I get the feeling, and I was a little cynical last year of like, I don't know, like, I just, maybe we just don't need this anymore. And I think it's going to be a lot of money for no good reason. But my prediction is I think this will work.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:01.530 - 00:44:24.950
It'll be interesting. I think we may get different answers from different constituencies.
Like, as I said, the established brands might view it as a success just because we get everyone back together.
Whereas the emerging brands where this is a big chunk of money to attend and if they don't get orders and they don't get traction there, then maybe they don't. So we could see a bit of a separating of that.
Colin True
00:44:26.070 - 00:44:55.460
Absolutely. And I would love to hear especially from the emerging brands, myrockfightmail.com or hit us up on LinkedIn or however else.
I mean, Owen owns you probably so just give him a call. But it's kind of just so no, we want to hear was it worth it? I mean, that's a really good point. I will reverse my.
All those people are like, yeah, didn't really do it for us. We're going to go back to whatever we were doing before then. I will eat some crow on that one for sure.
But today's point, nits will continue to be picked no matter what. That is my other prediction.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:56.580 - 00:44:58.660
It is the outdoor industry, Colin.
Colin True
00:44:59.220 - 00:45:00.580
Boy, do we have to pick those.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:00.900 - 00:45:03.060
Hardly a tough prediction there.
Producer Dave
00:45:03.460 - 00:45:07.790
Well, I would add mosquitoes and ticks as well to that.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:07.790 - 00:45:09.110
So tick Mick.
Colin True
00:45:09.110 - 00:45:45.730
Next thing they can work on is nits for the outdoor industry. All right, today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking.
And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk. Reasons that include the following. Number one, where else can you sweat this much and feel proud of it?
You know, if you're the sweaty guy in the gym, that's not a good look. Number two, to escape their inbox and their in laws. No, nothing. You guys all right, these are bad. These are bad reasons today.
Number three, because especially if you're Owen, you enjoy the scent of DEET in the morning or what's the new one we found? Mc mc.
Producer Dave
00:45:46.050 - 00:45:46.450
MC.
Colin True
00:45:49.570 - 00:45:54.250
Mirai. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, the natural anti DEET one.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:54.250 - 00:45:54.690
Yeah.
Colin True
00:45:54.690 - 00:46:35.770
Number four, hiking means the Bridger boot collection. The Bridger Ridge is here to help you smooth out the rough trails in front of you with enhanced stability and protection.
The Bridger Ridge is Oboz's first boot with Gore Tex. So bring on the smiles and the miles in the Bridger Ridge.
And if you find yourself in or near Townsend, Massachusetts, be sure to stop into Evans on the common to pick up your very own pair of Bridger Ridges and then head up the road about 30 minutes to break those puppies in on Pacman Adnoc in Southern New Hampshire. This hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by opening oboes of Bozeman, Montana certified B Corp.
6 million tree planter and inhabitant of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Oboes is the maker of premium quality footwear and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking.
Producer Dave
00:46:35.770 - 00:46:37.370
See, those are good reasons, Colin.
Colin True
00:46:38.010 - 00:46:39.209
Those are very good reasons.
Producer Dave
00:46:39.209 - 00:46:40.090
I like those reasons.
Colin True
00:46:42.090 - 00:47:53.940
Don't let our big time production value and celebrity names fool you.
Looking at you, producer Dave But Rock Fight LLC is a a small business and growing brand and even though we have our own consigliere, he advises on other matters. We've got to consult a lawyer every now and then on the legal structures that every business needs.
But for a small business like ours, the cost to hire general counsel or pay a retainer is a non starter. So what's an outdoorsy founder to do? I mean, come on, we're not flashing that outside money. Enter Conatus Council.
They can help your business with fractional general counsel and legal services. From strategy consulting to advocacy and government affairs to real world implementation for outdoor recreation industry businesses.
Forest over at Kanatas Council has helped Rock Fight navigate some of these areas. And let me tell you, knowing someone has your back means you can focus on running your business.
I mean, he had at least three edits to this read to quote unquote protect us from ourselves. I mean, that's what I'm talking about. Forest cares just as much about the outdoors and the outdoor industry as our listeners. So, got questions?
Konatuscouncil.com to get in touch with Forest. The first six hours are free. Wait, what? What? I can't say that. Oh, initial consultations are free. Okay, fine.
Rock Fight Radio!
00:47:55.540 - 00:47:57.700
It's time for our party shot.
Colin True
00:48:00.100 - 00:48:08.430
All right, for the parting shot. Today I want to announce our first ever Rock Fighter of the Week. It's a new thing. So you guys have Rock Fighters of the Week sending.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:08.510 - 00:48:10.990
Are we going to do this? This is an ongoing bit.
Colin True
00:48:11.550 - 00:49:06.720
It'll be a bit when we have one to give out. The Rock Fighter of the Week this week is Maggie Slepien, who is a Bozeman based outdoor journalist.
You've seen her writings, likely in places like the New York Times, Lonely Planet, GQ, and outside. The reason I'm highlighting Maggie and she's receiving this honor is because of her brutal honesty.
Maggie's a true rock fighter about the state of outdoor media. She has a great post on her substack about the current challenges of being a writer.
In modern media and what she has to do in order to pay her bills, which is namely more commerce work and gear reviews which frustrates her. And she has great posts on her Instagram stories and on her substack.
She's doing what she has to do in order to make a career as an outdoorsy journalist and while pulling no punches and pulling new punches while she's doing it. And that makes her our Rock fighter of the week, Maggie.
I'll link her website and substack in the show notes and maybe we'll have her on the pod at some point in the future.
Producer Dave
00:49:07.600 - 00:49:15.360
Yes, have her on the pod, Colin. And she can join yet another media outlet where she can be underpaid for her talents. Right.
Colin True
00:49:16.640 - 00:49:17.840
Happy to participate.
Producer Dave
00:49:18.560 - 00:49:21.600
But we're up front. We're not hiding anything.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:22.080 - 00:49:22.480
Right.
Producer Dave
00:49:23.200 - 00:49:24.700
We know up front front.
Colin True
00:49:24.940 - 00:49:27.980
Me too. Will sell out one day and be completely sanitized.
Producer Dave
00:49:27.980 - 00:49:51.250
There you go. There you go. No, she really, really great points. Really great article. Even if you're not in the media necessarily.
It's just a kind of more of a indicative of kind of what's happening between AI and just corporate pressure and consolidation and all of these kind of issues kind of come to a head in a. Well, of course, well written and good story.
Colin True
00:49:52.450 - 00:50:07.170
She's great. I had a chance to talk to her a couple of weeks ago and I won't say what it was she was reviewing because I don't want to tip it when that.
So when it comes out. But she's like, I'm reviewing this thing and it's driving me fucking insane that I'm reviewing this thing.
So I was like, yeah, Maggie, you go, we're gonna have you on the.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:07.170 - 00:50:12.690
Show was driving her insane that she had to be doing any kind of reviews or the thing itself was driving her insane.
Colin True
00:50:13.090 - 00:50:32.900
I think maybe a little bit of both. We can ask her when we have her on the pod. But she's, she's. She's great. And, and I just love.
I again, it's like the thing right here at the Rock fight. Right. It's just. We're just trying to be honest with what we've learned while working in this industry.
And I just like her transparency and her own substack. It's pretty great. So. All right, that's the show. We'll. We're going to check in later this.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:32.900 - 00:51:05.030
Week before we go. Kind of. I would say we.
You know, personally, I really appreciated everybody that came up to us at Grassroots Connect and said hi and said how much they love the Podcast that really makes us feel great. I don't know if you would say the same. It really does.
And so if you do see us wandering the halls or you overhear a conversation like, God, that sounds like that Owen asshole, please say hi. We'd just love to hear from you. It just makes us feel good.
Producer Dave
00:51:05.030 - 00:51:08.470
And if you do have a critique or criticism, talk to Colin.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:08.630 - 00:51:10.390
Yeah, that's fair.
Colin True
00:51:11.590 - 00:51:36.210
This was my idea. Just go look, that's the guy. Go talk to him. No, that's a good point. It's really amazing.
You know, we obviously started this because we wanted, you know, people to listen to it, but it's kind of fun now to walk around industry events and kind of understand that like one person maybe this past week who wasn't familiar with the pod. So we cannot appreciate the support and the love that we get from our listeners anymore probably than we do. It's. It's amazing.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:36.290 - 00:51:37.010
Absolutely.
Colin True
00:51:37.170 - 00:52:11.210
So, all right, well, hopefully we'll see you at Switchback. I think we're going to try and record something there that'll come out later this week. No Wednesday episodes this week.
We're at the show until Wednesday, so it's gonna be a two show week. So look for that probably on Thursday or Friday. We want your emails like we said.
Send them to myrockfightmail.com and the Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight llc. Today's episode was produced by producer David Karstad. Art direction provided by that Sarah for Owen Comerford. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening.
And back again to take us out is our guy Krista Makes with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock Fighter.
Chris DeMakes
00:52:20.240 - 00:53:11.620
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight.
Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Rock flight Ride flight Rock fight Welcome to the Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight.
