Tariff Decision Explained, Outdoor Earnings & Sustainability Under Attack
- 39 minutes ago
- 23 min read
Is the outdoor industry in trouble, or just in transition?
Host Eoin Comerford is joined by industry icon Kristin Hostetter (former Editor-in-Chief of SNEWS) to pull back the curtain on why sustainability is currently under fire and what the "Trump Tariffs" reversal actually means for your wallet.
In this debut episode of Outdoor Unfiltered, we move past the PR fluff to give you the "why" behind the headlines.
What we’re digging into today:
The Supreme Court vs. The Tariffs: Eoin breaks down how brands might get their refunds and why your gear probably won't get cheaper anytime soon.
Earnings Season Reality Check: What do the latest results tell us about where the market is heading? Why are footwear brands like Hoka and Birkenstock winning while the rest of the US market lags?
Sustainability Under Attack: Kristin Hostetter shares her raw take on the repeal of scientific findings and why Patagonia’s latest "transparency report" is being called greenwashing by some and a blueprint by others.
Connect with us:
Follow Eoin Comerford: www.linkedin.com/in/eoincomerford
Email the show: OutdoorUnfilteredPod@gmail.com
Rate & Review: If you enjoyed this deep dive, please leave a 5-star review!
Outdoor Unfiltered is part of the Rock Fight podcast network.
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Episode Transcript:
Eoin Comerford
00:00:07.920 - 00:10:41.770
Welcome to Outdoor Unfiltered, where we dig beyond the PR speak and see what's really going on in the outdoor industry. Not just what happened, but why it happened and why it matters.
I'm Owen Comerford, a former CEO and advisor to outdoor brands and consigliere to our industry. Today we'll be talking about the Supreme Court striking down Trump's tariffs earnings season for outdoor brands.
And then later in the show, I'll be joined by Kristin Hostetter, former editor in chief of Snooze and head of sustainability at Outside, to talk about sustainability under attack. Okay, well, let's get into it and talk about the implications of the recent Supreme Court decision that struck down the Trump tariffs.
So first of all, to those of you who listened to the rock fight, you will remember that I correctly predicted that this was going to happen when really based upon overall murmurings that we were hearing out of D.C. but also the fact that financial companies close to the administration were buying up companies potential credits in the case of a reversal. So what does all this mean? Let's dig in. First of all, does this mean that all the tariffs we've seen enacted are going to go away? Well, no.
This only impacts Trump's emergency tariffs enacted under the International Emergency Economics Powers Act, AKA the ieep. So you've still got a whole bunch of other things, like you've got your base MFN duties that have been around for a long time.
And then you've got other tariffs that were imposed under different, clearer authorities, like section 301, 232. And that covers things like steel, aluminum, or some of the imports from China. Okay, cool. But this means that brands are going to get refunds, right?
Well, actually, not so fast. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court really didn't make it entirely clear that the government was going to have to pay it back.
Now, many people, including the president himself, have postulated that this is going to take another court battle and potentially years of litigation for companies to get their refunds back. So what is a company to do that has a potential refund that they're waiting on?
Well, I actually think the most likely answer is that they're ultimately going to take a deal from financial firms that are buying up these claims at some fraction of their value. As I mentioned prior to the ruling, there were a number of kind of hedge funds, distressed debt investors, those sorts of folks.
They were offering to buy up claims at 20 to 30% on the dollar.
Now that the tariffs have officially been struck down, those offers are increasing to 60 70, even 80% of the dollar from what I'm hearing, because the claims are no longer viewed as a gamble, but now they're really more viewed as government backed receivables. Also, because now it is a lower risk endeavor, it's attracting more institutional investors.
So you've got private equity stepping into the fray, even commercial banks, and that is increasing the competition for these credits. So overall it's, if I had to guess, I would say by the end of this year, the majority of firms are going to go this route.
They're going to basically take the sure thing, the 60, 70, 80% on the dollar, rather than potentially waiting years in the courts, not to mention avoiding some tricky accounting about potentially having to carry this refund as an asset on their balance sheet. So what can companies do in the interim to prepare for that?
Well, I would say you'd want to take your time, let things settle down a little bit, see who some of the players are that come along to offer these refunds where you can get your best deal and in the meantime, really make sure that you've got your documentation very well in hand that's breaking down all of the duties and tariffs that you've paid last year, but specifically pulling out those that were under the IEEPA and then find the best possible route to get your best deal. Okay, so will this finally mean that we're going to have some level of stability and calm on the tariff front? Unfortunately, no.
The administration actually saw this coming and they had really already been working on ways to replace a lot of these tariffs using other, clearer mechanisms.
So I think, as most people heard, immediately Trump announced a blanket 10% tariffs under Section 122 of the 1974 Trade act immediately on the day that it was announced. And then the next day being a little bit more pissed off, I guess he increased that to 15%. So that's where we are today.
Now, the good news is this power is actually limited to 15%, so he can't go any higher.
And it's also limited in duration to 150 days, after which he would actually have to get congressional approval, which he almost certainly would not get. Beyond that, any new tariffs under the Trade act would need to have a trade investigation and justification.
So it can't just be because the president was feeling grumpy about not winning an award or what have you. And they typically have to be sector or country specific. So they're going to be nowhere near as broad or as immediate as what we've been seeing.
So the next Question is, does this mean that prices for outdoor equipment and apparel are going to go down also? No, because many of them actually just went up. A lot of brands really held back for last year and spring summer of 26.
So basically right now was when the price increases went in to place. Now typically prices that go up are slow to come down unless they're in a commodity market driven by supply and demand like gasoline or eggs.
On top of that, I was talking to some executives in the industry and they had just spent thousands of dollars re tagging product in their warehouse to the new increased price. The last thing that they're going to want to do is turn around and re tag it once again to a lower price.
So I think the price that we're seeing right now for product for spring of 26 is the price that we'll probably see at least through this year until either things calm down or there is a market shock that requires brands to cut price. So at the end of the day, this is good news, right? And my answer to that is yes, it definitely is good news.
New tariffs are going to take a while and we're just not going to see the same level of whiplash where tariffs get applied on a whim overall. Also, they should be less, not only in breadth but also in the amount of tariffs.
And so we should see less inflationary pressure on our economy, which in turn should free up discretionary spending to spend on things like outdoor gear and equipment. And finally, I think refunds are coming.
They may not come directly for the government, they may come from other companies, but brands are going to see some relief. For our second topic today, I really want to dig into earnings season for outdoor brands.
Basically, February marked the month where most public companies announced their earnings for the all important Q4 season, October through December.
Now that includes a lot of the biggest brands in our industry, including Hoka, ugg, the North Face Vans, Timberland, Fjallraven, Canada, Goose Crocs, Birkenstock, yada yada yada. The list goes on. So first question obviously is what were these results? And I would say a bit of a mixed bag as they tend to be, right?
That said, there were some common themes that we see emerging from these public outdoor brands. The first and I think most common one was the fact that we're seeing a bit of a lag or hangover in the US market.
Most of the brands reported much better comps in their non US or non North American businesses than they did in the US So even if they were growing in The US they're growing faster elsewhere, and in quite a few cases, they're actually contracting in the US Negative comps that are being somewhat offset by growth elsewhere. Europe, Asia, et cetera. So definitely not a great result about the US Market. So what's going on?
Why is the US Market potentially lagging the rest of the world?
Well, tariffs, I think, are part of the story, right, because they have meant less discretionary income for folks to spend on things like outdoor gear. So that's something that we're seeing in the US Market that we're not seeing elsewhere in the world. There are other factors too.
For example, in some of these cases, the brands have more market saturation in the US and so they've got more opportunity overseas.
But tariffs, I think, are definitely an aspect here, and it'll be interesting to see in the coming months if the Supreme Court decision actually helps the US market to rebound a little bit versus rest of the world. The next question is, are some of the segments doing better than others? The answer is yes, I would say.
First off, footwear brands continue to perform well. We're seeing really pretty solid results out of Birkenstock, ugg, hoka.
Actually, I predicted HOKA might lose growth this year, and I'm very happy to say that I was wrong on that, at least for the back for Q4. We'll see what happens here in 2026. But really what we're seeing here is a continuation of a trend where footwear has been hot, right?
It's the category within outdoor that continues to do well. People continue to gravitate towards more athletic footwear versus casual. That helps with the kinds of products that we sell here.
The other thing I would say about four is that it tends to wear out a lot faster than a jacket or outdoor equipment. So there is that, that. That replenishment cycle that helps to drive ongoing sales, even if the markets are a little bit tougher.
Finally, what are we seeing in terms of DTC versus wholesale? Well, the results are a little mixed, but on balance, it does look like wholesale is a little bit ahead of D2C right now.
And what I'm hearing is that brands are realizing that their DTC E commerce isn't great. Right, Because A, it's expensive to drive traffic to that channel and B, to convert that traffic, it typically requires some kind of discount or.
Which isn't great.
Kristen Hostetter
00:10:41.850 - 00:10:42.210
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:42.210 - 00:12:22.350
And so most brands would like to lean a little bit more into wholesale. And actually, specialty retail has been remarkably resilient throughout everything that we've seen over the last 12 to 18 months.
Unfortunately though, what I'm hearing from a number of brands is that specialty has been pretty conservative in terms of their open to buy and their pre seasons for the spring.
So ironically, that actually may push more inventory back on the D2C side than the brands would like, which in turn may lead to some discounting to move through it.
So hopefully we don't go there, but that could be what we see if the at once business within the spring doesn't really help to help the brands to move through the inventory that they have.
So in summary, I'd say we're looking at a relatively tough market, especially here in the US but we definitely have some bright spots with winter outerwear and footwear and hopefully some relief on the horizon with the tariff decision. Now on to our very special guest host. Today, I am very excited to welcome Kristen Hostetter.
So to those of you that don't know Kristen, where have you been? She is truly an outdoor Insider with over 30 years covering the industry.
So she started when she was like three or four apparently, and has been a leading journalist at BACKPACKER Magazine, Snooze, the Voice, Outside Business Journal, and Outside. So I mean, really kind of a who's who of outside outdoor publications. Kristen, thanks for joining me. It's been about a year since you left Outside.
Maybe let's just catch up, start with what you've been doing over the last year.
Kristen Hostetter
00:12:22.430 - 00:13:29.060
Yeah. First of all, Owen, thank you so much for having me here. What an honor it is to kick this adventure off with you. Yeah, no, it's great to be here.
Since my departure from Outside, which was just about a year ago, I've just kind of been taking a beat. I worked with that family of brands for 30 plus years and I loved every minute of it, truly.
The people, the topic, the industry, everything I did, I felt so blessed to find my career path so early on and feel so passionately about it. So it was, it's a bit of an understatement to say that it was pretty devastating to be part of that big layoff that happened last February.
I just didn't see it coming. I just felt like my tenure and the things I were doing were really important to the company and really part of the the core mission.
So it was, it was tough. So I've been taking a beat.
First thing I did was I put on my backpack and I went and hiked the Camino Primitivo, which is a sort of an obscure, rugged Camino de Santiago trail, not the main Trail more remote and rugged one. I did that for about three weeks,
Eoin Comerford
00:13:29.060 - 00:13:39.500
so now that was okay. Now did you go the full backpacking, like, hostile approach? Are we talking like Lux here with luggage transfers and. No, no, no, not hotels.
Kristen Hostetter
00:13:39.500 - 00:13:50.200
No, it's more my style. More D bag style for sure. Staying in hostels, trudging along every day carrying my own pack. It was wonderful. It was what I needed to clear my head.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:50.760 - 00:13:58.680
That's awesome. So the Camino is on my bucket list too, but I'm more like the Camino Portuguese costal. And the luggage transfers and the nice
Kristen Hostetter
00:13:58.680 - 00:14:23.970
hotel, well, I hear that's a beautiful way to go, but it's, it's not what I wanted or needed and it's not typically my style. Not yet. I'm going to get there someday. But right now I still like to carry my pack. I like the feel of my pack on my back.
I live here in Cape Cod, so on the water when weather allows.
Focusing on my family, but really actually leaning into what was my focus at outside the last four years and what has become my passion, which is sustainable living.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:24.530 - 00:15:06.360
So given your background in sustainability, the first thing I wanted to jump right into is the state of where we are as an industry. I feel like it's under attack, really from the current administration.
And it's been bad enough over the last year plus, but recently they pulled what I think of as the nuclear option, where they repealed the scientific finding that climate change endangers human health and the environment, which basically ends, from what I can tell, the federal government's legal authority to control pollution. Now, maybe I'm missing it, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of pollution outcry over this. I mean, this is a big fucking deal, right?
Kristen Hostetter
00:15:06.520 - 00:15:32.820
Oh, it is so huge. Oh, and it's, it, it keeps me up at night. I mean, this is, this is.
First of all, environmentalism has been death by a thousand cuts ever since this administration came into office, right? But this is truly, and actually we should have seen it coming. I mean, we know he's a climate denier, right?
But this is the most terrifying display of climate denial that I, that I can remember.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:32.820 - 00:15:46.979
Lee Zeldin, right, who he nominated to run the epa. Not exactly a friend of the climate, but in his confirmation hearings, he said, and I quote, I believe that climate change is real.
How the fuck do they square that circle?
Kristen Hostetter
00:15:47.700 - 00:16:26.840
It's a really good question. I wish I had the answer.
It's basically denying and refuting what we absolutely 1000% know from scientists all over the world that greenhouse gases threaten public health and threaten our environment, and that we have to do things to remedy that and to change that. And this is just denying that.
And by repealing that, we're just losing the protection of so many laws that ensure clean air and clean water in our health. And the repercussions if this starts to build is going to be absolutely devastating. I mean, people are literally going to die from this repeal.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:27.930 - 00:16:40.170
Yeah.
Because I was seeing that the Environmental Defense Fund said that it could lead to as many as 58,000 premature deaths and an increase of 37 million asthma attacks between now and 2055. That's crazy.
Kristen Hostetter
00:16:40.170 - 00:17:20.809
Yeah. I mean, you've got a good grasp on the numbers. And I didn't come here with a lot of the numbers because I just get. So the numbers are huge. Right.
And this is not only going to kill people and hurt our environment that our industry relies on so heavily, it's also going to cost us a freaking fortune, you know, in health care and in environmental remedies and things that we have to do to combat climate change and the wildfires and the floods and the. I mean, it's. It's going to end up costing us a shitload of money, all the while killing people. And who benefits from this? Oil and gas. Oil. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:20.809 - 00:17:21.169
Okay.
Kristen Hostetter
00:17:21.169 - 00:17:21.889
And simple.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:22.289 - 00:17:44.529
Right. It's the whole drill, baby, drill, burn, baby, burn. You know, live in the moment and let's. Let's run up massive deficits. Let's.
I mean, this is basically a climate deficit is what we're talking about. We're. We are just totally screwing the next generation. But it seems like the message is, hey, we don't care about them. They'll.
They'll have to deal with that themselves. We're going to basically just do whatever the hell we want right now.
Kristen Hostetter
00:17:45.330 - 00:18:41.500
Yeah, that's what it feels like. Right. And the reality is that clean energy is less expensive, better for people, better for the environment. And it's coming.
And it's not a question of if it's coming, it's a question of when it's coming. Clearly, it's not coming in this administration. And so you know where my mind goes. And I'm of the sort.
And in my column at Outside and in my work at Outside, I used to always tell my readers, write a letter, call your congressman, all that stuff. And I still do that, and I still believe that. But that's not going to solve this right now.
What is going to solve this and what we have to do is we have to act in the midterm elections, we have to flip this balance of power. We have to vote out people that are aligning themselves with Trump and his ridiculous climate agenda.
We have to kick them out, and we have to bring in people that are going to act on behalf of the planet and behalf of the people. And so these midterm elections are going to be huge.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:42.460 - 00:19:15.810
What gets me on this is how are they getting away with it? Right. I mean, don't we have laws in place that empower the EPA to protect the environment?
It's called the Environmental Protection Agency, which was established, by the way, by none other than Richard Nixon. I know, right? I mean, this wasn't like some green, Democratic, Jimmy Carter, whatever, tree loving, Al Gore wannabe. This was Richard Nixon. Right.
Okay. This is not like, oh, we just made this up during the Obama administration. So. Well, I just blows me away.
Kristen Hostetter
00:19:15.890 - 00:19:42.560
Part of it, too.
When you think about it, like, in the larger context, it's like the world was less bipartisan back then and we were all working towards the same thing. And that just doesn't feel like it's the case for our country anymore.
And the way they're getting away with it is because they own all three branches of the government. You know, like, there's no checks and balances. And it's terrifying to me, and it's wrong and it's not who we are.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:44.080 - 00:19:57.060
I just wonder what the rest of the world is thinking as they look at this. You know, because theoretically, American exceptionalism, we're the country that a lot of the world, including the developing nations, look up to.
So what do they see?
Kristen Hostetter
00:19:57.060 - 00:19:58.780
Yeah, I mean, it's so embarrassing, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:19:58.940 - 00:20:08.780
Yeah, it is. It is embarrassing. And when I travel overseas, people. People just ask me, like, what, what is. What is going on over there?
Kristen Hostetter
00:20:09.020 - 00:20:38.920
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, on my Camino trip that I was talking about, obviously I met people from all over the world and the conversation almost always came back to, what's the deal with Trump? Like, why did he get elected again? Like, what is the guy's deal?
And so, yeah, I think it's a terrible look for us as leaders of the free world and as citizens of the globe. It's cringy. And again, the only thing we can do is act in the voting booth. Like, that's what we have to do.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:39.400 - 00:21:06.530
Yeah.
And I mean, I think the interesting thing though, in the last election is how actually younger voters did start to move towards MAGA and towards the administration.
It'll be interesting to see in the midterms if those younger voters Realize, oh, well, actually, this is all not very good for me down the road, both in terms of the deficit spending, in terms of the environmental deficit that we're seeing here. Will those younger voters still be on that side or will they move back? So I know I.
Kristen Hostetter
00:21:07.010 - 00:21:43.020
All the time, Owen, because.
And even the older voters, too, because, you know, people in my circle, in my larger circle, because in my inner circle, most people didn't vote for him, but there are people, obviously, we all know people that voted for Trump. And I feel like I want to shake them and ask them, like, don't you regret that vote now?
Like, now that you see what's happening, I have to believe that there is going to be a bounce back here. There's going to be a pendulum swing because he's done what he said he's going to do. And it's scary and it's not good for most of us or all of us.
And it's got to change.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:44.460 - 00:22:32.580
I mean, not to get too far down that rabbit hole, because I do have that, that thought process, because people that I love and respect are Trump supporters. How can that be? And the answer is that we live in totally different worlds, totally different echo chambers.
I'm in my echo chamber, they're in their echo chamber, and it's very, very different. So, yeah.
So hopefully we'll see some progress there as 20, 26 rolls along now, maybe on a more hopeful front, I saw the recently released Patagonia Work in Progress report as a really important document that very transparently lays out what it takes to truly pursue sustainability as an outdoor brand. Kristen, you were responsible for pulling together these sorts of reports while you were at Outside.
What were your reactions and takeaways from this document?
Kristen Hostetter
00:22:32.900 - 00:24:02.280
Yeah, I launched outside's impact report and I authored that for two years. And it was a really tough but amazing process that I thoroughly enjoyed. So much learning went into that.
And so my first reaction when I, when I read this document is, holy shit. The amount of work in, the commitment and the resources that Patagonia puts into creating this document, it's impossible to even put into words.
So many Impact reports that I've read are very self congratulatory and performative, and I get that.
I did that too in the ones that I worked on, because it is an opportunity to show your audience that you're committed to whatever it is you're committed to. And of course, Patagonia has, you know, there's plenty to celebrate in that report, and they do celebrate things in that report.
But right out of the gates, there's a letter from Yvonne and there's a letter from Ryan, both written with humility and transparency, making no excuses for the ways in which they did not live up to their goals. And I think that it is the picture of transparency, this report, and that is one of the hardest things, I think, for.
And you probably know this from your time at Moose Jaw. It's very hard to be transparent.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:03.000 - 00:24:04.160
Absolutely, yeah.
Kristen Hostetter
00:24:04.160 - 00:24:12.960
Scary. It's dangerous. It's hard. You worry about what the implications are. And I think that they've done that in a way that very few companies do.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:14.800 - 00:24:32.240
Now, one of the results of that radical transparency, so to speak, is actually that there are quite a few, what I call greener than thou's. Actually, I stole that from. From producer Dave.
But the greener than thou folks are saying that the report reveals that Patagonia is basically greenwashing. What. What do you say to that?
Kristen Hostetter
00:24:32.800 - 00:24:50.640
I mean, if that's greenwashing, then everything's greenwashing. There's always people that are going to do that. Right. Like, if you're a company at all, then you're.
You're greenwashing in your car, you know, and we've heard. We've heard that narrative come from Patagonia and, you know, their need. Remember that we all remember the don't buy this jacket ad.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:50.720 - 00:24:52.040
Right? Yeah.
Kristen Hostetter
00:24:52.040 - 00:25:51.060
So they acknowledge that, that they are inherently, by being a company, they are harming the planet.
But the way that they approach their business in everything that they build, in every way that they market, is just so honest and makes no excuses for that. And there's so much to be learned from that, from the way that they do business.
They're bringing so much awareness to the environment and to climate in a way that no other company is. I mean, think about all the money that they invest in the films and the books and the education. It's not an either or thing to me.
It's not like you can either be in business or you can be environmentalist. It's an and thing, and that's what Patagonia is trying to do. So I don't think we should be trashing Patagonia for this report.
I think we should be striving. We should all be striving to be more like them.
There's just no doubt about it that they are leaders in our industry, in our world, in our economy on this front. And it's just really hard for me to not have great respect for that.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:51.770 - 00:26:31.030
I totally agree. I hate the ivory towering folks that just want to tear people down just to build themselves up.
Why not go after the oil and gas industry and leave the folks alone that are actually trying, maybe not always succeeding, but trying their best to do what's right for the environment? I would say one of my big takeaways from the report was that one brand can't do this alone. Right.
In a global supply chain, you can't, because you look at all of the things that they're trying to do. But 99% of their emissions come from scope three come from basically their, their supply chain or their supply chain supply chain. Right.
So that's a challenge because you don't
Kristen Hostetter
00:26:31.030 - 00:26:38.510
own the factories, by the way. But that's the case with most, most companies is that the most of their supply chain emissions come from Scope three, obviously.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:38.669 - 00:27:26.270
Right. And so that's a huge issue. They're not the ones that decide what these factories pay their workers.
They can, I mean that 95% of their product is from fair trade factories, but I think it's only like 37% actually are at what they would call a living wage. They can try and require that at other factories, but their factories also produce stuff for a million other brands too. So there's that piece.
There's the issue on the inbound materials side of things. Okay, yes, we want to move away from the primary to more secondary recycled products. So not just plastic bottles, but actually textile to textile.
That requires a whole new supply chain. We want more of a circular recycling on the back end. That requires a bigger story as well.
So it truly is, isn't just like, okay, Patagonia, you can be totally sustainable all by yourself.
Kristen Hostetter
00:27:26.750 - 00:28:32.360
Right? And I mean, that's so true.
And the supply chain thing, when I started to dig into ours it outside and learn about it and try to report on it, it's so overwhelming. And we are just, we were just a small, you know, media tech company.
And Patagonia is so massive and they make these products and so the complexity of it is massive. And clearly Patagonia is using their influence as a brand to impact their supply chain. And it takes time.
I look at this report and they outline this at the very beginning their five key goals. And they say right out of the gates that two, they fell very short and two, they've made Progress.
And one they really hit out of the park by abolishing pfas. They're chipping away at it, which is all we can ask. It's clearly something they've prioritized.
They put their money where their mouth is in terms of that and what the industry can learn from it.
It's just that it's like it's work with what you have and do the best you can and continue to be honest and open and transparent about your struggles, which can help other companies tackle their own. And I just, I see this as, as exactly that.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:33.640 - 00:29:08.520
Yeah, it needs to be sort of each layer of the supply chain, so to speak, needs to progress further down or push further. For example, REI has done an exemplary work in terms of their requirements for their suppliers about sustainability.
So that pushes it down to the brand level. The brands themselves then like Patagonia are making requirements on their own suppliers. Right.
Who in turn then are making requirements on their own suppliers, like for example, Patagonia helping factories move away from coal fired power to more sustainable energy. But those are the things that have to happen along the way. It needs to be collective action. Right.
Kristen Hostetter
00:29:08.520 - 00:30:12.220
And the more outdoor brands that start asking for those things and start pushing for those things, the more quickly we're going to see that happen. I think about with Patagonia, one of the programs that I think is so impressive is their Worn wear program.
So it's only about 1% of their total revenue, but they've kept 220,000 products in circulation. And I think about, I don't know what, what year that started, but it was at least 10 years ago. Right.
And since then we've seen so many other companies jump on this sort of secondhand bandwagon, creating their own programs. You know, you've got platforms like Geartrade that have popped up.
There's just been this real awareness about quality and durability and repair and reuse. And going back to what we talked about before, like, I really lean into that in my personal life and so I appreciate that so much.
I try everything I buy, I try to buy secondhand before I buy new. And I just think Patagonia was such a leader in that space and in the outdoor industry and we're seeing other companies follow suit and I love that.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:12.300 - 00:31:28.510
Yeah. And I think we need regulatory help there to really get circularity to where it needs to be.
I think it's called SB707 in California, looking to get to that sort of producer responsibility where basically producers have a responsibility for their product, not just when it's first sold, but what happens after it's sold. So hopefully that will go through.
It was approved, but I'm hearing that maybe there might be a challenge in terms of the overall implementation process, but hopefully that works well and we can start to see more models like that pop up in other states and gosh, wow. At the federal level. Anything ever happen? I don't know. That is our show as a new pod.
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