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The Persistent Gender Gap in How We Cover Outdoor Adventure

Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) professional adventure athlete Sunny Stroeer joins Colin to talk about how there continues to be a gender gap in the way the outdoor media covers women's outdoor accomplishments.


Sunny Stroeer, pro adventurer.

The outdoor gender gap is a pressing issue that continues to impact women in adventure sports, as discussed by Stroeer, a professional adventurer and the first woman to complete the Iditarod Trail Invitational on skis, shares her insights on the challenges women face in gaining recognition for their accomplishments in the outdoor world. She highlights the disparity in media coverage between male and female athletes, particularly in light of her own experiences following her notable achievements.


Throughout the conversation, Sunny emphasizes the importance of amplifying women’s stories to inspire future generations and address the systemic issues that perpetuate the gender gap. Additionally, she discusses her efforts through the Alliance for Gender Equity in Outdoor Adventure, which aims to provide scholarships and resources to help women and marginalized genders access transformative outdoor experiences.


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Episode Transcript

Colin True

00:00:00.600 - 00:01:55.851

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Welcome to the Rock Play, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.


I'm Colin Schrew and today we're taking a look at the outdoor gender gap through the eyes of one of the most badass outdoor athletes, Sonny Strower. But before we get to that, hey, have you subscribed to Rock Fight's weekly newsletter?


If not, you're missing out because it's not just another lame aggregator of what's happening here at the Rock Fight. I mean, there's a little bit of that, but there's also original content that we don't put anywhere else.


So head to Rockfight Co and click Join the mailing list to sign up.


And lastly, if you're new around here, or even if you're not, we'd love for you to subscribe and join in the Rock Fight by lobbing a stone at that follow button on whatever podcast app you are listening to us on. And leave us that five star rating really helps out the show. And speaking of the show, let's get it going. Let's start the show.


Chris DeMakes

00:01:55.963 - 00:02:00.015

Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.


Colin True

00:02:01.315 - 00:04:19.367

Earlier this month, I had a conversation with adventure athlete Sunny Stroher just a few days before she was due to leave for an attempt at setting a new unsupported FKT on the Arizona trail.


My intention was to run that interview after Sunny had finished her attempt, which would have been sometime next week, and a lot has happened since then.


Sunny started her attempt and promptly bent one of her trekking poles, causing her to bail since she was so close to the start so that she could fix that problem.


During the couple of days she took off from the trail to address that problem, Sunny was promoting her FKT attempt that is also acting as a fundraiser for the Cairn Project, which is a organization that's working to close the gender gap in outdoor adventure sports.


She was doing some promotion on Facebook and she was hit with a slew of misogynistic comments by a bunch of dumbass men who are deriding her position that it's still not fair out there for women looking to do big things in the backcountry. And look, if there's a gender gap in the outdoors, Sunny Strower is the one who would know about it.


Earlier this year, she became the first woman to complete the Iditarod Trail Invitational on skis, a huge accomplishment that was completely overshadowed by Jasmine Paris finish at the Barclay, which occurred around the same time.


But until a recent Gear Junkie article about what Sonny did in Alaska, the only coverage her accomplishment received was right here on the Rock Fight. It was as if the outdoor media could only handle one story featuring a badass woman in the backcountry.


Sonny has been setting Big Adventure goals for a long time and has a list of accomplishments a mile long, but her biggest pursuit is a more equitable future for women who also want to do big things in the outdoors.


So while I wanted to hear more about Sunny's adventures, I also wanted to bring her on the Rock Fight to talk about why she thinks women are still not getting the same coverage as men when it comes to outdoor pursuits. Now, earlier this week, Sunny pulled the plug on her FKT attempt for what I think to be the best reason possible.


She said her heart just wasn't into it this time. So instead of pressing forward, she decided that her time would be better spent at home.


And while some may think that's a little sad that our conversation is now running earlier than planned, I celebrate Sunny's decision to listen to her heart, body and mind and pull the plug rather than be somewhere she didn't want to be. Those are the kinds of learnings that you get from a life lived outside.


So welcome Back to the rock fight, where today we're talking about the outdoor gender divide with Sonny Stroher. All right, we're joined now by professional adventurer. Is that a right way to say it? Sonny Strower. Is that a good way to describe what you do? Sunny?


Sunny Stroeer

00:04:19.471 - 00:04:23.675

I think that's pretty fair, both in terms of the pronunciation of my last name and in terms of my career.


Colin True

00:04:25.095 - 00:04:31.787

Professional adventurer sounds pretty awesome. So I mean, are you a paid athlete or. You just said a professional adventurer.


Sunny Stroeer

00:04:31.951 - 00:04:40.195

I am a paid athlete at times. So being an adventure athlete is not my main source of income, but I do make some money with it. Yes.


Colin True

00:04:40.315 - 00:05:13.663

Listen, you've taken on a number of really hard outdoor adventures. You know, from big mountain summits to classic rock climbing routes.


You know, I put in our outline that, you know, things like the rim to rim to rim, which you immediately corrected me and saying that's not that hard. Like that's not a big deal for some people. That's the biggest deal of all time. For you it's like, eh, child's play.


But what is it about the hard stuff? Like what, you know, why do you want to just continue to push? Because I've gotten to the point in my life where like, I've done some hard things.


Not nearly as hard as you, but I also tend to be like, ah, you know, I've done a few of those things. I'm kind of good now. You know, the two hour adventure really works for me. You know what I mean?


Sunny Stroeer

00:05:13.799 - 00:05:40.887

You know, I'll admit I get bored really easily and if I know that I can do something, I'm not interested for the most part. You know, at that point it's just going through the motion.


So I tend to look at things and seek out challenges that kind of make me tense up a little bit. Like, I don't know if I can do this. I really want to find out what I'm capable of. And I have the most fun when I'm exploring and adventuring.


And I have no idea what's going to happen or how I'm going to react. And that's when I'm really on my toes.


Colin True

00:05:40.991 - 00:06:12.877

Yeah, that's a.


You know, maybe that's my problem is I probably need to go a little bigger because even though I've sort of had a couple of knee surgeries and I'm like, I'm just not as interested in doing like some running things. I don't feel like kind of dealing with what comes with that.


But even then I still like January, February rolls around and you start seeing like, well, is that like 50k that's coming up? Like, that should be interesting, you know. But I also know what to expect with something like that, which maybe it is truly in the.


Listen, be okay with potential of failure. And maybe that's what a lot of people struggle with.


And is that almost the crux, a little bit of like, of what you do is like, I have to be okay with. I may not actually finish this.


Sunny Stroeer

00:06:13.021 - 00:06:19.029

It's all about the failure. Because if I know that I can do it, why would I go through all the pain and effort to actually make it happen?


Colin True

00:06:19.077 - 00:06:19.261

Right?


Sunny Stroeer

00:06:19.293 - 00:06:22.865

It's kind of like, okay, so I'm going to date myself right now. Did you ever play SimCity?


Colin True

00:06:24.165 - 00:06:25.573

No, but I know what it is. Yes.


Sunny Stroeer

00:06:25.629 - 00:06:51.951

Okay, but you're familiar with it, right?


So you build a little city and then you got everything set up, and then once your city is working, you just go and speed up time to collect tax revenue. That's kind of how I feel about life, when I know what the outcome is going to be. Right? You're just speeding up time.


You're just going through the motions to go and collect the tax revenue. And that's not what I'm interested in. Like, I want to figure stuff out. I want to have adventures and I want to grow. Right?


So for me, that's how adventure comes together, I guess.


Colin True

00:06:52.023 - 00:07:01.093

Conversely, though, if you, if you're going to put yourself through all that pain to not finish it, isn't that almost worse in a way? Like, you're like, you know.


Sunny Stroeer

00:07:01.269 - 00:07:09.301

Oh, no, no, no, not at all. Because it's not about the finishing, it's about the adventure and it's about what happened.


So, you know, with the Arizona trail that we're going to talk about here.


Colin True

00:07:09.333 - 00:07:10.345

We'Re going to talk about it.


Sunny Stroeer

00:07:10.685 - 00:07:27.513

I tried to set a record on the Arizona trail last year and I failed out of this stress fracture at mile 300 or so. It was an epic adventure. I loved it. It was awesome. You know, did I get the record? No. Did I fail objectively? Yes, I did.


But that didn't detract from the adventure at all.


Colin True

00:07:27.609 - 00:07:44.645

All right, I'll take your word for it. I guess. The other thing. Do you feel pressure to like, kind of one up big adventures? That's a good point. We're going to get to this in a minute too.


But like, you went from Arizona trail to up to Alaska, right? So I mean, those are. I mean, either one of those things for some people will be like, oh, that's that's my couple of years there versus you.


You're doing them relatively close to back to back.


Sunny Stroeer

00:07:45.105 - 00:08:24.323

I don't feel pressured to one up myself, but I feel this draw to go different. Not necessarily bigger, but different because again, I get bored really easily.


And so a couple years ago, actually not that long ago, like 10, 15 years ago, I ran my first 5K, right? And that was a big deal. I'm like, oh my God, I'm running a 5K. This is wild, right?


And I crossed the finish line and whatever, 35 minutes, I'm like, oh my God, I ran a 5K. This is amazing. And it's that feeling that I'm still chasing today.


I just have to keep going bigger and different because I now know that I can run a 5K. I know now that I can run 100 miles. I know now that I can go and through hike a long trail. But I don't know if I.


I can do it unsupported for the speed record. So that's fun.


Colin True

00:08:24.379 - 00:08:55.487

I guess the last thing before we move on to the next thing I want to talk to you about is does the adventure ever live up? And I mean, I say this because I have an opinion on this, from things that even I've done live up to the planning of the adventure.


Because to me there is nothing better than conceiving of a thing, whether it's something you do or whether it's a bike packing trip with your pals or whatever. And then all the planning and what are we going to take and the gear and even the travel to get to the thing and the adventures are always great.


But there's just something about that window when it's just an idea that is so. So that's almost more addictive than anything else.


Sunny Stroeer

00:08:55.671 - 00:09:22.751

So you and I, I think, are completely different personality types. I hate the planning. I hate it. The passion. I hate the planning. I hate the training. I hate the prep that goes into it.


I'm going to go off to try and do this 800 mile thing in like three days right now. I still haven't packed. I still don't have my nutrition dialed even though I'm working with a performance nutritionist.


I still don't actually know, you know, what all the sections are in the water resupplies because I hate it. Right. I just want to show up.


Colin True

00:09:22.783 - 00:09:24.311

You're stressing me out right now, Sunny.


Sunny Stroeer

00:09:24.343 - 00:09:28.115

Y I'm a little stressed out myself, but yeah, no, not the platform.


Colin True

00:09:28.155 - 00:09:37.699

I don't want to be part of the article like Well, a couple of days before she left, she was on this podcast and, you know, and then she said she didn't have plan for her adventure.


Sunny Stroeer

00:09:37.747 - 00:10:01.085

And here's a question. What's the worst that could happen? Right.


I say that somewhat facetiously because with a lot of the things that I do, the worst that could happen is, yeah, you know, it's pretty bad. Like 1,000 miles to the winter in Alaska, bad things can happen.


But realistically for something like the Arizona trail, okay, so maybe I get injured, maybe I have to bail, maybe I fail, quote, unquote, right. Maybe I am slower than I want to be. Who cares? Doesn't matter.


Colin True

00:10:02.345 - 00:10:25.093

I mean, that you're underplaying it a little bit, but. But you're right, relative to some of the other things you've done, probably not quite as, quote, unquote risky.


But I mean, speaking of some of the other things you've done, though, so your recent big accomplishment was becoming the first woman to complete the Iditarod Trail Invitational on skis. So let's start with the event itself before we get into some of the other things that happened. Oh, we.


Look, is that a finisher jacket or just a jacket from event?


Sunny Stroeer

00:10:25.189 - 00:10:29.189

Just a jacket. I actually still haven't gotten my finisher trophy, which. Oh, well.


Colin True

00:10:29.357 - 00:10:44.545

Well, that plays into some of the things I think we're going to talk about now. Like, what the hell, we're talking like six months later. But. So what's different about the event? Tell. Take.


Tell us all about what the event actually is and how it might be different from the Iditarod that we all sort of know about.


Sunny Stroeer

00:10:44.925 - 00:11:19.655

The Iditarod itself, of course, is the last great race on earth. It's the dogs that race, you know, through the winter of Alaska.


The Iditarod Trail Invitational, which I did, is the human powered step cousin of that race. So it happens at the same time, it happens on the same trails, but it doesn't involve any dogs. It's entirely human powered.


You can decide if you want to do it on foot, on a fat bike, or on skis. And to make things more complicated, there is a short distance and a long distance. The short distance is only about 350 miles.


The long distance goes all the way to Nome for about a thousand miles on the trail.


Colin True

00:11:19.815 - 00:11:27.555

And then is it in terms of who wins? Is it. Is it. Is that categories like if you're on a bike versus on foot versus on skis there.


Sunny Stroeer

00:11:27.935 - 00:11:50.647

Yes, but no, I mean, there's an overall win. Right.


Which is usually the bikers though there have been years where at least in the short distance actually the foot racers won because the snow was so deep that, you know, you just have to push your bike for the whole 300 miles. And on foot you could go and dance across the surface on snowshoes. Right. But yeah, so there's an overall win. And then they do keep track by category.


So it does kind of matter which mode of travel you've chosen.


Colin True

00:11:50.671 - 00:12:11.427

Yes, I've done a couple of long mountain bike races and maybe some of my lowest moments and all like in a day stuff, not, not long, but still my lowest moments.


Like when you're bonking and you have to push your bike in a technical section and all you want to do is just like throw that fucking thing in the forest and be like, I'm never biking ever again. At least when you're on feet, you're like, I can sit down. You know, like I don't have anything else to carry. You know, bikes are rough.


Sunny Stroeer

00:12:11.611 - 00:12:29.421

That's why I don't ride bikes. Actually I did ride bikes in the ITI two years ago in the 350, only time I've ever ridden a bike.


I think I put like 100 training miles, actually 150 on my bike before showing up for the race. And I walked away with the worst saddle stories of my life. I get and I promise to never ever do anything that stupid ever again.


Colin True

00:12:29.573 - 00:13:04.343

Isn't that funny?


Like that's actually the stuff that probably doesn't get discussed enough if you just like, if you're want, if you're entering into your first maybe like, like long distance endurance thing.


It's like you get to a certain point where you're not training to run a hundred miles, you're not training to ride your bike 100 miles, you're training your ass for your bike, right? And it's like, and for, for, for running, it's more like what you should carry.


Like, I mean, you want to get to the point where you know what it's like to feel beat up because you just never, you can't prepare for how low you're going to get. And so that's a really good point.


It's like the, if you're like, oh, you want to do like a 50 mile mountain bike race, great, here's the plan to get your butt toughened up because that's really what you have to do.


Sunny Stroeer

00:13:04.479 - 00:13:28.125

So not that you were asking about this and not that you really want to know about it, but I'm going to show it anyway. You know, we talked about the saddle stars in the iti.


Actually, another thing that happened on the Arizona trail last year when I was trying to go for the supported record is I started chafing so bad. Like, my butt was chafed so bad, I ended up having to ask one of my crew to, like, tape my butt. And it was not pretty. Oh, it was terrible, though.


It was terrible.


Colin True

00:13:31.185 - 00:15:38.593

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Focus on natural fibers, tight merchandising, and a range that knows what it stands for. All the stuff that Royal himself would be down with, too.


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Check out Royal Robins, and next November, you'll be thanking yourself. Well, you know, it wouldn't be. It couldn't just have somebody come on the Rock Fight to talk about the fun things they do outside, right?


I mean, like, this is one thing we wanted to touch on is because when you and I first, you know, chat. Chatted about your accomplishment at the.


Well, when we on the Rock Fight first started talking about your accomplishment on the Iditarod was after we learned about your new. About your finish, which, funnily enough, we found out via a press release for one of your sponsors, loa. See the German connection now. Good to know.


And that news came shortly after, you know, Jasmine Paris became the first woman to complete the Barclays. I remember we talked about it with Justin Houseman. I did. It was like kind of back to back weeks.


Now, just Jasmine's accomplishment became the sort of big outdoor story using air Quote for several weeks. Whereas I do want to pat ourselves in the back.


I believe we were one of the only ones to cover what you did until Gear Junkie ran an interview with you, interview with you about a month or so ago. Why do you think one story gained notoriety? I mean, and the other one went relatively uncovered, right?


I mean two pretty comparable accomplishments in terms of like, you know, women in sport and these adventure sports and these endurance sports. And I get maybe there's a little bit easier accessibility when it comes to the Barclay because it's running.


But if you know anything about the Barclay, there's like nothing accessible about that event. I mean it's like, it's so like why do you think that that happening?


Sunny Stroeer

00:15:38.649 - 00:16:24.705

You know, I think there's a couple different factors at play here.


You know, one of them I do believe is the fact that the Barclay just has a bit more of a community and a bit more, you know, name brand recognition at this point amongst the ultra running community anyway and kind of general outdoor rec, I guess.


But I also think, you know, Jasmine got there first in some ways and yeah, there's only so much capacity and only so much appetite for stories about women in sports because if we already had the one headliner did a big thing, why talk about what I just did?


Because it's just, it's more of the same and it's not going to essentially scratch that itch any more efficiently than it had already been scratched through the Barclay.


Colin True

00:16:24.865 - 00:17:08.509

I mean it's really the only answer because if you look at the outdoor media landscape and what gets covered on even like a week to week basis and kind of frankly random weird like fkts or accomplishments or this person made it up this peak in a certain amount of time. It's not like there's not room for multiple stories.


And I don't know if anybody consciously, I would really hope not at any sort of, you know, mainstream outdoor media publication looked at both of them and said, ah, let's just kind of lean into this one over the other one. But it is kind of like it's a glaring omission.


I mean what, you know, and also by the way, yes, people know about the Barclay, but it's not like nobody knows about the Iditarod. I would say probably the Iditarod has more mainstream name recognition than the Barclays. Right?


Sunny Stroeer

00:17:08.637 - 00:17:44.301

But see, here's another kind of angle on this. Right?


Yeah, there is a question about just space and airtime and demand, quote unquote or perceived capacity for the audience to absorb this type of stuff, but there's also the supply. The supply of writers who are actually going to go and produce those stories.


And if you had a writer who is working on a piece about Jasmine, they're not going to turn around, talk about what I just did, and pitch that to the editors again. Right. Because they already hit on that nerve just about two weeks ago.


So I think it's not just the demand side of things, it's also the supply side of things. And, yeah, you know, my story wasn't really. Wasn't really at the right time, I think.


Colin True

00:17:44.373 - 00:18:07.731

I don't know.


I mean, in the digital landscape, there's so much room for so many things to be told that even if you were like, hardcore in the Jasmine story, you could probably also have covered your story. It's really. I mean, just when you look back on him, you've been doing this a while now.


I mean, just overall, speaking this specific instance aside, I mean, do you feel like the gender gap has closed versus, like, where it used to be when you started out? I mean, do you feel like more women are getting, you know, their due in these sports overall?


Sunny Stroeer

00:18:07.883 - 00:18:27.015

That's a loaded question, since that's a huge part of the work that I do. Right.


Besides being an adventure athlete and trying to tell my story so that more women see what's possible and kind of feel spoken to and feel addressed themselves. I also spend my time running a nonprofit that's focused on gender equity and outdoor adventure. So it is a very loaded question.


Colin True

00:18:27.375 - 00:18:30.711

Makes you an authority to talk on. It is what. How I look at that.


Sunny Stroeer

00:18:30.903 - 00:19:28.825

I do think that there's progress, and I have seen the gender gap change.


I don't want to say that I've seen it close because it's definitely still there, but I've seen a lot of efforts to want to highlight issues of gender equity in the outdoors and programs to also address it and actually do something about it.


And even from when I started, which, you know, professionally was in 2015, 2016, essentially to now, I see so many more women going after rad stuff and also getting highlighted for what they do. But I think there's a systematic issue here that's not just to do without your media and kind of the appetite for covering women's adventures.


It's also in how we as women tend to portray ourselves. And I've been having these conversations a lot, actually, in the last couple of weeks.


But if you're a woman and you do something, you tend to be like, oh, yeah, well, I did this thing. It was Kind of cool, but no big deal. You know, we don't need to talk about it if you're a dude, you know, pardon my French.


But I think, you know, if you're a guy and you do something, you're like, hey, I did this. It's rad. You got to go talk about it.


Colin True

00:19:28.865 - 00:19:29.913

Come on, look at me, right?


Sunny Stroeer

00:19:29.969 - 00:19:36.953

It's just a very different kind of personality and very different gendered expression of how we celebrate what we do, which.


Colin True

00:19:36.969 - 00:19:49.869

I imagine is a result of how we've treated things for decades now. Right. I mean, like, you know, men feel free to like, shout from the mountaintops what you've done. Literally some cases in our space, right?


And then for women, it's like, I just. You quiet down over there, right? It's probably as all related.


Sunny Stroeer

00:19:50.057 - 00:20:27.665

And here's the thing. So there's both an external and internal pressure, I think, to not kind of go and make those achievements center stage.


But the thing that I always like to talk about with other women who get out there who do really rad stuff, who don't really talk about it very much, I'm like, listen, anytime you or I as a woman make the decision to not talk about my achievements and to not be loud and proud essentially and be like, I did this. This is right. I did this. And I would like the story to be told. And I'm telling the story.


We are keeping every other woman small as well, because we're role modeling that if we're a woman and we're doing something rad, it doesn't need to be highlighted and that needs to change.


Colin True

00:20:28.125 - 00:22:29.979

Yeah, and the industry plays a role here too. I mean, because a lot of things we talk about on the show obviously are brand related.


And what's happening in these sort of more nuts and bolts business, you know, the commerce area of the industry. And just at the time we're recording this, last week we had two stories.


One on our gear and beer podcast where we had some women who reviewed Branwyn, which is a merino wool brand, and Scenic, which is a new outerwear brand. And then I actually interviewed on the Rock Fight the founder, founders of Scenic. And the story about it is that I got some.


Not pushback, but some comments of like, oh, there's plenty of women designers or brands that make women's things. And in regards to Scenic, it's like, right.


But what they're doing is highlighting a specific young consumer who's looking for flash, looking for, doesn't understand the or doesn't even care about sort of the way it's always been in the outdoor industry, and also the way things fit and the way things are designed in mainstream fashion and bringing that sensibility to outdoor apparel. And that's meaningful because that means that there's an entire sector of women who don't feel seen by what's currently out there. And then on the.


On the Gear and Beer podcast, especially, talk about Branwen, you know, two women speaking very frankly about the way underwear fits and their challenges they face. And that's in everyday life. And then you apply that to, well, now to, like, talk about chafing. Right.


Things you have to worry about when you're being active, it's even more important. And the lack of options that they've had historically. And these are relatively young women. So it's not even like.


It's not like somebody who's just, like, old and grizzled and, like, angry about things like this is just the challenges that have seemed to persist.


And then the last thing, and I'll get off my soapbox, is just in the last 18 months, I think it was Danner, and who am, I think, oh, Adidas, putting in press releases about how we're making shoes and we're using a women's last as a bullet point in their press releases. I'm like, do, like, people doing this since the 70s, having women's specific lasts? Like, what are you talking about? As, like, this is a big deal?


It's not a big deal because unless you continue to make a big deal because you're not already doing it. So I think that's where the industry still plays a huge role.


And, you know, it all kind of trickles down into the experiences you're having as an athlete, trying to get some attention on these things that you're doing.


Sunny Stroeer

00:22:30.107 - 00:23:39.965

Oh, it's pretty wild.


I mean, you expand that to mountaineering, which is a space that I spend a lot of time in because I also run a women's mountaineering expedition company.


And, you know, we have scholarships specifically to get more women into those big kind of backcountry transformative experiences that they're traditionally not represented in. A huge barrier is that. But guess what? Mountaineering boots aren't made in small enough sizes for women to fit. They're men's lasts.


And mountaineering backpacks don't come in sizes that fit small women's torsos. And I understand that there is a real business issue here with supply and demand.


And if you only have a small niche segment of the market that needs a certain product it's not profitable to go and develop that potentially. But there are enough of us right now. I run a women of mountaineering Facebook group with 33,000 active members. What do you think we're talking about?


We're talking about how, you know, we don't have backpacks that fit us. We're talking about how we can't find boots that fit us.


And yeah, you know, if we don't have the gear to go and do rad stuff, how are we supposed to do rad stuff?


And then if what we do doesn't get talked about, how are other women supposed to see that this is actually for them to go and build that consumer segment, to go and build that demand to make it worthwhile and profitable for the brands to go and serve that segment.


Colin True

00:23:40.425 - 00:25:07.303

And to that I say, you know, brands, they can figure it out.


There was a time, I mean, not that long ago, meaning like 20 plus years ago, back to those kind of early days of or when probably manufacturing capabilities, materials, those kinds of things, molding was probably challenging to say, listen, we can't make a women's the equivalent of what a kid's shoe would be in a women's mountaineering, but whatever, yes. Would it be more expensive for you to make that? Now?


Probably not necessarily because it costs more to make it, but because you're not going to get the same return on your minimums you would have to place. But think about what it would mean to actually just start doing it anyway, you know, and by the way, this isn't just an outdoor thing.


Like, so I play on a beer league ice hockey team and there's a woman on our team who's very small stature and she wears children's size ice hockey skates because the manufacturers of the skates won't make or don't make, you know, small enough of their performance models in women's sizes.


Now, I mean, fortunately there's a lot of good kids skates out there now, but that's also kind of bullshit because I guarantee you you're still going to hold back, you know, like women's professional hockey, if you don't have the gear that they can wear. And it's the same thing with the women you're talking about who want to go up the mountain.


And the stakes are much higher if we're going up a mountain, because we're talking about places where you can get really hurt. And if you get hurt, then you're really in a bad place and you need to be as safe as possible.


And I just, I just reject the notion of, like, you're just, you're, you're, you're just taking that margin on those products or not making them because you can't get the same margin on those products. And I really believe that's what's at play here for a lot of these brands.


Sunny Stroeer

00:25:07.429 - 00:25:55.529

Yeah, exactly. And for what it's worth, you know, if it's really that big of a business decision, go and make it more expensive.


You know, rather have a product that's available.


Just price it as it needs to be priced for it to make sense from a business perspective, but make it available so that we can actually go and do the things that we're interested in. That's the whole promise of, you know, the nonprofit that I lead that's focused on gender equity in the outdoor space.


You know, we, it's not that I'm advocating for, oh, you know, we need to be at a 50, 50 or 51, 49 split and all of these activities. That's not what it is.


But there's a huge gap, in my opinion, between the number of women that actually would love to do certain things and those who are actually out there doing it and seeing a path for how to get there. Right.


So there's this massive unaddressed segment still that seems like, you know, should be an issue of the 19th or 20th century, not the 21st century.


Colin True

00:25:55.697 - 00:27:10.365

Yeah. And you're going to fall behind.


I mean, you think about just women's sports in general and like, you know, the resurgence of things like the WNBA and the way there's just a. There. It's a moment.


Things are really changing in general, and you're going to be caught behind and you're going to get called out if you're not playing along. To support these issues for sure, western North Carolina businesses need your financial support now more than ever.


In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene this month, Darby Communications, based in Asheville, North Carolina, is donating its ad space here on the Rock fight to help other outdoor businesses in western North Carolina get back on their feet.


The outdoor industry is a major contributor to western North Carolina's economy, and Darby Communications is asking people to donate to the Outdoor Business Alliance Hurricane Helene Relief Fund, which supports outdoor industry businesses in their recovery and supports their staff as they rebuild in the wake of the storm's devastation. Now is the time to help out the outdoor community, and if you have a few spare bucks, you can help build back what we want.


Lost in western North Carolina. Head to outdoorbusinessalliance.org and click donate today to get started.


All right, so while, since you bring it up, tell us about the nonprofit, what's happening with it. It sounds like there's been a lot of you had some big developments recently. So what's going on with that?


Sunny Stroeer

00:27:10.485 - 00:28:42.907

Yeah, so I serve as the executive director for the alliance for Gender Equity and Outdoor Adventure, which is a brand new organization that just merged from two existing nonprofits, the Summit Scholarship foundation that I founded a couple years ago and the Karen Project.


And both of those organizations are focused on trying to increase access to transformative outdoor opportunities to women and to other marginalized genders, also to girls, to gender diverse adventurers.


And to me, you know, we've been talking about this a whole bunch already, but to me, it comes down to airspace in some ways and to funding and, you know, gear available to women and to marginalized genders. But it also comes down to the storytelling. Right. That kind of comes full circle with what we're talking about.


And my iti 1000 finished, not really getting any, any attention in the media.


If we don't tell stories about women and marginalized genders doing rad stuff in the outdoors, we as women and marginalized genders don't really see what's possible and don't see a path for the next generation to go and do more. Right. And it's a perpetuating issue.


So with the GI alliance, the alliance for Gender Equity, and Outdoor Adventure, we're trying to address that both in terms of creating scholarships and funding for mountaineering and backcountry scholarships, as well as doing participatory fundraising campaigns where women go out on these neat adventures, whatever it may be, can be something huge, can be something of any size, and they turn their adventures into a fundraiser to go and tell their story and make funds available for other women to have transformative opportunities.


Colin True

00:28:43.091 - 00:28:53.879

Is there anything coming up specifically you want to put out there? This will come out before the end of November for sure.


So is there anything that you want to call to action for anybody who's listening, who may be interested, interested if.


Sunny Stroeer

00:28:53.887 - 00:29:15.475

You'Re interested in this type of thing? We're going to announce our next scholarship cycle in the middle of December here around December 15th.


And, you know, in the last about five years now, we've made available around $130,000 in women's volunteering scholarship. So it's not, you know, it's not small. It's. It's meaningful.


So take a look@SummitScholarship.org and as I said, we just merged with the Karen project to form the GIA alliance.


Colin True

00:29:15.895 - 00:29:23.095

So.


All right, well, lastly, as we talked about as we record this, you're leaving in a couple of days for your second attempt at an FKT on the Arizona trail.


Sunny Stroeer

00:29:23.135 - 00:29:27.611

So by the time this comes out, very carefully planned. Second attempt.


Colin True

00:29:27.803 - 00:29:35.175

Okay. It's not what you just told me. I know as you sit here, like, oh, yeah, should I bring shoes? Should I bring my shoes?


Sunny Stroeer

00:29:35.595 - 00:29:36.403

I think I will.


Colin True

00:29:36.499 - 00:29:49.259

Should I wear my. I'll just do it in crocs. It'll be fine. By the time this comes out, actually, you might be either close to finishing. I mean, maybe finished already.


How long do you anticipate? If it goes well, how long do you think it's gonna take?


Sunny Stroeer

00:29:49.427 - 00:29:53.011

I should be done sometime right around Thanksgiving. Right after Thanksgiving.


Colin True

00:29:53.043 - 00:30:05.715

Oh, that's probably about when this is gonna come out. So by then, okay, hopefully will know and I can record a little thing before it goes live. Like, oh, my God, she crushed it. She did it.


So first of all, I mean, do you dislike water? Why the Arizona trail?


Sunny Stroeer

00:30:06.415 - 00:31:07.923

Why the Arizona trail? Well, last year I picked the Arizona trail because I don't live very far from it. It's about an hour 15 from my front door.


It's a really neat kind of, you know, opportunity to go and do something cool that doesn't require a lot of planning. Right, right. Just kidding.


But last year I latched onto the Arizona trail because I wanted to do a big adventure that actually was going to get me ready for the Editorial Trail Invitational. And I wanted to do something that could fit into not too much time. So I was going off to the supported record.


At the time, it was going to be just over two weeks. You know, it's something that you can kind of compress into a timeline that is reasonable for most people to step away from work.


So that's how I settled on the Arizona trail to start with. And then once I was out there last year, it was really beautiful. It was a really cool adventure. And I hit a limit. Right.


I got a stress fracture, I had to come off the trail. I bailed. And now I want to go back because I'm like, oh, I don't actually know if I can do this, and I want to find out.


So now I have the bug because I couldn't do it last year, and I'm just really excited to see if I can do it better.


Colin True

00:31:08.059 - 00:31:10.987

So you went out to train for Alaska and broke your leg?


Sunny Stroeer

00:31:11.171 - 00:31:11.963

Yes.


Colin True

00:31:12.139 - 00:31:14.779

That kind of sucks. How long did it take to heal?


Sunny Stroeer

00:31:14.907 - 00:31:31.625

Well, yeah, it wasn't ideal because I came off the trail fracture I think on the 3rd of December or so last year.


And then I left for Alaska in late February so I had to be off my leg for eight weeks, which meant that I really had about, you know, two to three weeks of weight bearing activity before I left for the editor.


Colin True

00:31:32.565 - 00:31:40.333

Well, right on. Well, we're wishing you all the luck. Appreciate you coming on, is it? We are. Where can our listeners follow, follow along with all of your adventures?


Where's the place where they could find you?


Sunny Stroeer

00:31:40.469 - 00:32:00.105

The best place to find me is Instagram. It's my first initial last name. So. S S T R O E E R. My parents really tried to make it hard and I'm also trying to be a bit more active on LinkedIn.


I know that's where you and I have connected a bit, but LinkedIn, my website, first name, last name sunny straw.com and who knows, maybe in some outdoor media.


Colin True

00:32:00.225 - 00:32:21.957

Yeah, let's go. Outdoor media. All right. You know, we're going to be obviously when this comes out, we're going to be putting a big push on this and whatever.


Well, I'll be posting by daily now from now on. Now that I know you're going to be out there in a few days. I mean, it's just like, it's a little silly. There's no good reason.


There's just no good reason. Like we didn't get to. We didn't come to some conclusion like, well, actually this is why they didn't cover Sunny. Like, no, it's bullshit.


You guys should have been covering this. It's a huge accomplishment what Sunny did.


Sunny Stroeer

00:32:22.091 - 00:32:36.505

But here's the thing. So Tara Dower obviously just did the at overall record, which is huge. Fucking massive. And we didn't even talk about that today. Right. But same thing.


So Tara did hers. You know that kind of quota or does it. I don't know. We'll find out.


Colin True

00:32:36.545 - 00:32:40.465

And she got there was. I saw a lot of stories about that. Maybe it was just a slow month.


Sunny Stroeer

00:32:40.545 - 00:32:46.681

Right. No, I mean that is the raddest athletic accomplishment in my mind of the year.


Colin True

00:32:46.713 - 00:32:48.129

I mean that eclipse is.


Sunny Stroeer

00:32:48.137 - 00:32:56.467

Yeah, that, that eclipses what Jasmine did. It's. It's amazing. That's insane. And Tara did what, like 56 miles a day for 40 minutes?


Colin True

00:32:56.491 - 00:32:57.535

Yeah. Ridiculous.


Sunny Stroeer

00:32:57.915 - 00:32:59.715

That's insane. Yeah, that's amazing.


Colin True

00:32:59.835 - 00:33:09.187

She doesn't have any knees anymore. But I mean it's. They just evaporated when she got to Maine. Sunny, thanks for coming on. We'll be rooting for you out there.


Sunny Stroeer

00:33:09.331 - 00:33:11.683

Awesome. Thank you, Colin. Always a pleasure to be here.


Colin True

00:33:11.819 - 00:33:34.379

All right, that's the show for today.


Let me know what you think by emailing your thoughts on this and every episode of the Rock fight to myrock fightmail.com the Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight LLC. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And here to take us out is the voice of the Rock Fight podcast network. He's gonna sing the Rock Fight fight song.


It's Chris Demakes. Sing along, everyone, and we'll see you next time. Rock fighters.


Chris DeMakes

00:33:34.467 - 00:34:09.386

Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight? Where we speak our truth, Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree?


We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pic bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak.


Colin True

00:34:09.420 - 00:34:10.134

We got you.


Chris DeMakes

00:34:10.214 - 00:34:30.354

Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.


Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.


Sunny Stroeer

00:34:32.014 - 00:34:32.654

Rock fight.

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