Topo’s Big Year: Tariffs, Trail Running & Staying Authentic

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Today on The Rock Fight, Colin, Eoin, and Producer Dave sit down with Tony Post, founder and CEO of Topo Athletic, live from GOA Connect in Kansas City, to talk about the booming trail running market and Topo’s big year.

Topo has quietly become one of the most talked-about brands in trail running. Growing 70% last year and expanding into 25 countries all while staying true to its specialty roots and never running a sale on its website in 12 years.

In This Episode

• Trail Running’s Not New: Why today’s hype is really the second (or third) wave. From Leadville in the ’90s to the Born to Run era to now.

• Surviving 145% Tariffs: How Topo shifted production from China to Vietnam without sacrificing fit or durability.

• A 13-Year Overnight Success: Why Topo focused on authentic growth, not blowing up fast.

• Run vs. Outdoor Specialty: Why the brand refuses to choose.

• Silent Flex: Zero discounting… ever

• The Up-and-Comers: Tony weighs in on Speedland, Norda, and Mount to Coast and why entering the category is harder than it looks.

• Why Topo Will Still Be Here in 10 Years: Tony’s philosophy: deliver a better experience, every time.

For The Parting Shot presented by Garage Grown Gear, Colin struggles with the glut of poorly executed maximal midsoles.

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Episode Transcript:

Chris DeMakes

00:00:00.080 - 00:00:07.360

Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Flight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Flight.

Colin True

00:00:08.400 - 00:06:01.800

Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and today it's our third interview from this year's Goa Connect show in Kansas City.

But before we get into any of that, here are some programming reminders. Are you ready to see the Rock Fight live? Catch Me Shantae Salibair, Producer Dave and Owen Comerford at the running event.

On Wednesday, December 3rd, we're going to be doing a live taping of the Rock Flight in the Training Camp theater right by the Switchback side of the show.

We're going to be joined on stage by folks like tre show director Christina Henderson, president of the oia, Kent Ebersole, and potentially one of their special guests. We're going to confirm that right now, actually, and we're going to hear from Gear Abbey.

You'll of course get producer Dave and the rest of our crew's assessment of the booth situation at the show. If you were at Switchback Spring, you you're going to know how much fun we will have. I hope to see you in San Antonio.

And hey, if there's one other thing you can depend on in life, it's that Gear Abbey doesn't take days off.

This Thanksgiving Thursday, you're going to get an all new episode of Gear Abbey with host Shantae Salibair who answers all of your burning outdoor questions. And lastly, we do want to hear from you. Email us@myrockblademail.com reach out on LinkedIn or you can search us up.

We're just rock fight on LinkedIn or head to Instagram where we are. RockfightCo. Send us a message. Let's get into today's episode.

You know the Rock Fight Crew and I have regular production meetings and kind of running email and text threads that we all respond to on a daily basis. We're constantly talking about what to feature on the show and questioning the right and wrong topics that we want to dig into every week.

And in a year of so much uncertainty, thanks to tariffs and other forces outside the control of our brands and retailers, trail running has become one of the topics we talk about the most, and one that usually brings with it something positive or at least interesting to highlight. Even if we feel like maybe we're talking about it a little too much.

It just, it gets, it's all we're talking about lately, but it's the news of what's happening right now. And the funny thing is about that is that trail running isn't new.

I mean, go back and look at the footwear brands that got the most attention in the early 2000s. You'll find brands like Montreal and Innovate. You'd also see the original XA Pro from Salomon, an attempt by Vasque back then to make trail runners.

My first outdoor interaction with Timberland, a brand where I would eventually work, was when I was working at EMS in the late 90s and we sold their Mountain Athletic line.

But it wouldn't be until the Born to Run era and rise of ultramarathons in the 2010 range that trail running would start to take on its more modern form. And there were plenty of brands to mention that helped this transition, but the most obvious ones are Hoka, Altra and also Topo Athletic.

So Topo launched around the same time as those other brands. But while Altra and Hoka quickly found their customer base, the outcome wasn't quite as certain for Topo.

They built the reputation of great product over the ensuing decade by showing up at specialty retail and forming an identity based on their founder and namesake, Tony Post. Fast forward to today and the Topo surge is happening.

Topo routinely gets praised for the quality of its products and carries a cool factor that some of the other now big trail running brands used to have. But it gets hard to maintain that cool factor when you've attracted the everyday mall walking crowd.

So I was interested in getting a chance to chat with Tony and find out what the journey has been like over the past decade and a half and fortunately he agreed to sit down with me, Comerford and producer Dave at GOA Connect in Kansas City a couple of weeks back. And today, dear listeners, you get to hear that conversation, which is coming up next.

So welcome back to the Rock Flight, where today we get an insider look at the booming trail running market with Topo Athletic founder Tony Post. Fjallraven isn't here to conquer mountains, tame rivers, or beat the weather. We are here to go slowly, to tread carefully, and to cherish the visit.

For us, the outdoor experience has never been a race to victory. It's an ongoing journey to create equipment and memories that last for generations to come.

Our mission is to inspire more people to move with nature, and we do this by developing durable and functional equipment that never goes out of fashion. What we really want is to make it easier for people to enjoy spending time in nature on nature's terms. This is our passion.

So let's Use our vast experience and competence to help more people feel at home in nature. Because when they do, they will take greater care of it. Get started on your Fjallraven journey by heading to fjallraven.com today.

As the air cools and the trails beck and Lemz is ready to move with you. Lemz has new shoes like the Trailblazer Mid, the mighty Trail Thrasher, and the insulated Breck boot.

Get your Lem's boots to get ready for the season ahead. And attention outdoor retailers. Are you going to be heading to the running event and switch back?

Well, then you can see all of the styles I just told you about, as well as check out Lem's new running shoes. Also, Lemz recently expanded their wholesale sales team. Want to meet with your new local rep?

We'll send an email to colo c o l o emsshoes.com and just make sure you told them that the Rock fight sent you LEMs where less equals more rock fighters. We all know that the Rock Fight is the voice of the outdoor industry, and as such, I'd like to introduce a new brand just hitting the outdoor scene.

Everyone, meet Trovoca. Trovoca empowers outdoor enthusiasts and adventurers with elegantly rugged products that enhance every journey from the backcountry to the backyard.

With a lineup of gorgeously designed e coolers, power stations, and camp kitchen products, Travoca crafts premium outdoor gear that empowers you to bring the amenities of home without compromising on style or performance. And hey, retailers want to learn more about bringing Trovoca into your shop?

Well, find them@travoca.com or message them on LinkedIn, which is travoca USA. All right, well, we're here today with Connect with Tony Post, the CEO and founder of Topo Athletic.

And, Tony, we wanted to bring you in because I'm not sure if you've heard, but there's this new thing. It's all the rage. It's called trail running. It's happening. Do you know anything about it?

Tony Post

00:06:01.800 - 00:06:04.920

I know a little about trail running, I guess. Yeah.

Colin True

00:06:05.560 - 00:06:12.920

Is it kind of weird? I mean, you're 13 years into this Topo journey. I mean, like, how's it going?

Especially when, like, running is kind of like having this incredible moment.

Tony Post

00:06:12.920 - 00:07:16.070

Yeah, it is fun. It's. I mean, I love. I love this show. I love the people who attend this show. It's. I, you know, I just have a passion for this space in the business.

I grew up in Colorado as a lot of people know. And I came to running kind of late in my, you know, athletic career, I guess in my late teens and.

But ran in college and then ran after college for a bit. But my first real heavy exposure to trail running, since we're talking about trail running stories. Yeah. Was with the Leadville Trail 100.

So I worked for a company and convinced them that we needed to sponsor the Leadville Trail 100 back in the early 1990s. And it was just, it was just so much fun and such a great education and learning experience.

And at that time, you know, not that many people were running 100 mile trail races. And so it was really kind of a crazy thing. People would say, totally.

Colin True

00:07:16.630 - 00:07:18.950

So you're. Are we two years now post DSW?

Tony Post

00:07:19.830 - 00:08:04.490

We are, yes. Post DBi, it'll be three years in December. That's right. And so I know when, when I sold.

So we still own 20% of the company, but our business was growing really rapidly and we needed more capital. So we needed to either go to private equity or to a strategic investor. We had a lot of interest from a lot of different people.

But dbi, which is the parent company of DSW Store, said, even though we want to be the majority shareholder, we're going to let you control the company.

So they structured the agreement in a way that allowed us to make all the strategic decisions in the company because of course, the first one people said, oh, does this mean you're going to be in DSW stores?

Colin True

00:08:04.490 - 00:08:06.210

Right, right. The media connecting those dots.

Tony Post

00:08:06.290 - 00:08:29.170

So, you know, and a lot of our competitors sell in DSW stores, as you guys know. But we've not even sold a closeout. So we're really true to the original strategy of the brand, is to be more specialty focused.

It hasn't been about making it as big as you can, as fast as you can, but trying to stay and build something authentic that can last a long time.

Colin True

00:08:29.570 - 00:08:36.610

So you can't predict anything. But when you kind of look back over the 13 years, are you kind of where you think you would hope to be now?

Is it, you know, when you founded the brand?

Tony Post

00:08:37.039 - 00:09:23.100

I, you know, I don't think I thought more than two or three years out.

And in those early years, as you guys know, sometimes you're just worried about making sure you have money to make payroll so you don't lose your people and pay the rent. And so, you know, you kind of live year to year in the beginning. It's nice to have a vision for where you want to end up.

We had a sense of the values that we wanted to create for the brand and the types of products we wanted to make. But I think it got better and better. And for me, it's because the smartest thing I did was I chose really good people to work with.

And so we brought on great people. And at the end of the day, that's what's going to make you succeed, or unfortunately maybe not succeed. So I was very lucky in that way.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:23.660 - 00:09:34.630

To those that haven't seen the results, you've just. Sales have been just crazy this year to the point where it sounds like you could have sold even more if you had more product.

Tony Post

00:09:35.190 - 00:09:43.750

Yeah, we, we've had a good few years. Excuse me. We, we grew, I think, 70% in 20, 24, 7 0.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:43.910 - 00:09:44.390

Wow.

Tony Post

00:09:44.390 - 00:09:53.310

We're up about 52%, I think, this year. But you're right, if we would have had more product now. The biggest challenge this year, of course, were the tariffs.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:53.310 - 00:09:53.830

Of course.

Tony Post

00:09:53.910 - 00:10:49.570

And when the tariffs got to be 145% coming out of China, of course, that wasn't helpful. No, that wasn't helpful. I mean, and we have great factories there. We have great factories in Vietnam too.

But we had to move a lot of production from China to Vietnam. And so that was a challenge and it was hard to keep up. But our team there did a phenomenal job. There's a lot to it.

Sourcing all the materials, moving molds, getting factories to be approved and pass certain standards, going through the FIT trial process. It can be really extensive.

And the thing I didn't want is I didn't want anybody to feel like, oh, you know, topos don't fit like they used to or they're not as durable. So you almost have to have higher standards when you make some kind of a transition like this. But I feel good about it.

We're really well positioned now for the future.

Eoin Comerford

00:10:50.050 - 00:10:57.410

That's great. And just so that our listeners have a sense of scale, what sort of 12 month run rate are you at right now from a volume perspective?

Tony Post

00:10:59.000 - 00:11:40.790

So we don't really usually talk about volume, but I would say that just to give you a sense of it, Topo sells over a million per year. So that could, you know, kind of help you to understand a little bit. We sell also outside the US So we sell in another.

I think we're up to like 25 countries now outside the US so and that helps. And that's also helped us to stay, you know, continue to manufacture in China too, because we didn't want to give it up completely.

The Goal is to remain nimble and to be able to make things that you can't tell or care where they came from. You're buying topo, that's the main thing. So my expectation always is that it's got to fit, feel, work like a topo, regardless of where it's made.

Colin True

00:11:41.670 - 00:11:59.620

So like we were saying at the beginning, trail running, running in general is kind of having this sort of. It's becoming like the it category of the moment right now.

I mean, and you mentioned sort of the acceleration or the growth in terms of the amount of shoes you're selling that you could sell more if you had more shoes. What do you attribute that demand to, like what's happening in run?

Tony Post

00:12:00.340 - 00:12:47.760

Well, I think it's a couple different things. I do think that, you know, it's interesting. I've seen kind of a resurgence in run among younger people.

So for the last, and I wouldn't have said that maybe five years ago, so it's kind of more in the last few years and it's become a social activity. And so we see a lot of that. You know, I go to some of these trail run demo events that we'll do, or roadrun demo for that matter too.

And sometimes there'll be a pub crawl or something afterward. And it's just really cool to see, you know, more people in there.

I'm not saying super young, but in their 20s, early 30s, all kind of getting involved in the sport. It's not just a bunch of old, old men like me anymore. It's, you know, it's. I think it makes it more fun, more interesting for everybody.

Colin True

00:12:48.480 - 00:13:15.520

So when you think about when, when you founded the brand and you've had it famously coming off of your days at Bibram and the whole five finger boom and then coming out of 2010s and the kind of the born to run thing and everything, it's kind of became like Hoka Ultra Topo, right?

Yeah, Hoka kind of a little bit more traditional, really grew and kind of within the running community, Ultra kind of almost built its brand on the back of through hikers in a lot of ways. Right? A lot of like that community kind of. Maybe not from a volume standpoint, but from a reputation standpoint.

Chris DeMakes

00:13:15.830 - 00:13:15.990

We.

Colin True

00:13:16.060 - 00:13:23.820

When you look at where Topo is and kind of like how you kind of cross over in those categories, I mean, where. What's more important to you right now is it, is it run specialty, is it outdoor specialty? Is it kind of a mix of both?

Tony Post

00:13:23.900 - 00:14:10.640

I think it's really a Mix of both, you know, Safe answer, Tony, but it would be very, you know, we have more road running distribution in the United States, but probably, you know, I'm always going to be a little bit partial to the trail consumer. You know, that's kind of been part of my background also.

I would say in Europe and possibly in the Far east, we have a stronger trail business than we do a road business. So, you know, it's. The goal is always to keep it balanced and just to make great shoes, whether it's road trail.

In the beginning, when we started, we also made shoes for Jim. We kind of put that on hold for a little while. Doesn't mean we won't go back to it or do it, but there was only so much we could handle.

Colin True

00:14:10.890 - 00:14:12.810

Did you just announce that the split toes coming back?

Tony Post

00:14:13.850 - 00:14:18.170

I didn't say that. I still have, I still have some emotional scarring from those days.

Colin True

00:14:18.170 - 00:14:19.370

It was a cool idea.

Tony Post

00:14:19.370 - 00:14:31.930

Yeah, I loved it and I actually really liked the shoes. But I think there are, you know, there are bigger fish for, for us to fry these days right now. But you never know.

I mean, I still think a shoe like that has a purpose and a meaning.

Eoin Comerford

00:14:33.290 - 00:14:46.630

So obviously you're doing very well in wholesale run specialty, outdoor specialty. Where is direct sales? How do you see direct sales for your brand and where it fits within your strategic framework?

Tony Post

00:14:46.710 - 00:15:43.020

So that's one of the things I'm really proud of.

And I think you guys interview a lot of different people and I don't think there are too many people that can say this, but in the 12 years or just over 12 years that Topo has been in the marketplace, we have never once run a sale on our website in 12 years to never run a sale. We're always full price when our dealers are granted their off map periods so that they can clear goods were full price.

We do have discontinued merchandise on the website, but the website is there, you know, for people who, you know, maybe they don't have a Topo dealer in their area. That was really the purpose in the beginning. And so it wasn't, it was never designed to compete with our wholesale partners.

And I think our job is to tell a story, make sure we offer products, but it's not, it's not really considered a key source of revenue for the company.

Colin True

00:15:43.260 - 00:15:54.780

Want to ask you about your color sophistication because that seems to be something that has become, you know, I'm not saying if it's an improvement, if it's just been an area of focus for you, but it Seems like the colors of the shoes really seem like it's an important part.

Tony Post

00:15:54.780 - 00:15:57.340

It only took us 13 years, so I don't know what the.

Colin True

00:15:58.300 - 00:16:12.560

Well, we speak about that, right? Because that's something where it's. There's a.

It's a nuanced thing because, you see, some brands will, like, think, oh, let's just throw colors at it. And it's like, whoa, I see your shoes, but I don't know if I really want to see your shoes and the ones that kind of do it the right way.

It's like, it really speaks to the consumer.

Tony Post

00:16:13.040 - 00:16:30.720

Yeah, I would say that we've just gotten better and better at product in general. So that's always. The goal is to improve every season. And we have. We have a really great team of people.

The person who leads our product group now is Russ Stevens. He deserves a lot of credit here. He's.

Colin True

00:16:30.960 - 00:16:32.640

Is he the guy we refused to interview today?

Tony Post

00:16:32.640 - 00:16:35.840

Yes, he's over sobbing in the corner somewhere.

Colin True

00:16:35.840 - 00:16:39.400

He came over with Tony. Listeners, it's fine. We'll interview Russ some other day.

Tony Post

00:16:39.630 - 00:16:42.710

He's only 31, so you'll have many more days to be able to.

Colin True

00:16:42.710 - 00:16:44.030

Oh, he's a sensitive soul.

Tony Post

00:16:46.110 - 00:17:24.620

But in any event, you know, I think, you know, we do a lot of work with. And we have a very young team, so we have a lot of people in their 20s and 30s.

We only have a few people, you know, over 40 years old in the whole company. And I think, you know, we encourage everybody to be really in touch with the market and what's going on and.

And to speak from the heart about things that they love. And all of that goes into the product, whether it's the types of platforms we build, the colors that we select, how we design product.

I'm really proud of how we've evolved, I guess, as a company in that way.

Colin True

00:17:25.100 - 00:17:36.150

So there's a couple more questions for me. So, one, when you look at those more established competitors, the Ultras and the Hokas, who are you impressed by? Who's done the best job of you?

Think of those. Those kind of the ones you came up with.

Tony Post

00:17:36.150 - 00:18:10.630

Yeah, they're all. It's.

It's so amazing to see, you know, because I think going back to my Vibram days, I remember when Hoka was this little, you know, two person, you know, 10 by 10 booth at outdoor retailer and.

And talking to those guys, and then me kind of half jokingly saying to the owners of Vibram, be kind of cool since we have Vibram, if we Acquired Hoka and then we'd have the two extremes.

Of course, Vibram didn't want to acquire a footwear brand because they didn't want to compete with their sole business customers, which I really respected.

Colin True

00:18:10.710 - 00:18:11.110

Sure.

Tony Post

00:18:11.270 - 00:18:58.670

I mean, they're all really terrific competitors. But I do tip my hat to Hoka because I think they've really built something that I think has a lasting place in the market.

But that doesn't mean, I think, what we bring different. You know, we don't ever try to go head to head with any one specific thing. We try to stay authentic and true to who we are.

I think people come to Topo because they love the fit sensation first, then they might have. Some people want something with a little less platform, some people want something with a little more. We give them choices after that.

And so, you know, we have to stay in our lane and just keep doing what we do really well.

Colin True

00:18:59.150 - 00:19:18.030

A few weeks ago, we did a kind of deep dive of three up and coming brands. And we looked at it because Dave is a brand background, Owens, a retail background. I had a chance to try these shoes.

So we talked about Speedland, Norda and Mount To Coast.

So of these sort of up and comers, and not just those three, but like all of the up and comers of which there are many right now, who has your attention?

Tony Post

00:19:18.190 - 00:19:21.630

I mean, they're all. Again, I know this sounds like a safe answer.

Colin True

00:19:21.710 - 00:19:22.830

Got to pick one, Tony.

Tony Post

00:19:22.830 - 00:19:23.270

I know.

Colin True

00:19:23.270 - 00:19:23.870

Got to pick one.

Tony Post

00:19:23.870 - 00:20:17.350

Okay, if I have to pick one, I'll pick one. I mean, I think I'll take them in stages. When I first tried the Speedland shoes a few years ago, I thought, these are really phenomenal shoes.

I hand it to those guys and being fearless, because I don't remember what the first shoes cost, but they were, you know, they are not times as expensive as anybody else, but they executed and they did a great job. And then Norda, you know, I think they've done also a really cool job. I love their attention to durability and, you know, using premium ingredients.

That's something we really take to heart too. You know, I think we're one of the only companies out there that's 100% Vibram on our trail shoes.

So, you know, we always admire when people use quality ingredients like that. And Mounted coast is definitely a company that's coming up and building a following.

Colin True

00:20:17.510 - 00:20:21.510

Out of nowhere, seemingly Right. A year ago, just, just all of a sudden they're here.

Tony Post

00:20:21.510 - 00:20:48.830

Yeah, but I think that's, you know, it's hard to enter this business. I mean, even though all of these companies seem to come in and have come up, it's a really difficult entry.

It's expensive, you know, to open the tooling and the equipment to do all of this, to build a business, to build inventory, to service. All of these things are costly. So I admire all these guys. It's hard to be an entrepreneur in this.

Eoin Comerford

00:20:50.280 - 00:21:30.070

I feel like, though, we are sort of at this golden age of trail running. On that episode, I actually talked about how it feels like snowboarding did back in the.

I guess it was at the 90s, the late 80s, early 90s, where there were so many snowboard brands. Right. And then over time, Burton snapped up a few, and a few others went away, and now we're kind of back down to maybe a. A smaller set of players.

Why do you think 10 years from now, Topo is going to be one of those three or four major brands that is still at the core of the industry?

Tony Post

00:21:30.230 - 00:22:50.640

Well, I think the most important thing that we can do is to pay attention to the needs of our customers. If we don't make products that deliver a better experience, Topo won't be around.

So it's always about, it doesn't matter what your price point is or, you know, I mean, all those things, of course they matter in some ways, but at the end of the day, it's about, do you make a product that delivers a better experience? Can you make improvements in this category that people appreciate and want to pay for? And that's. That's a value that we have to keep.

And if we keep that value, Topo will be around and successful for a long time. It's an exciting industry. You have to have people that have a passion for the space.

You know, it's hard if you don't have a passion to succeed in this business. So you really have to have a love for it.

You have to have a love for running and the sport, but also an appreciation for people who are walking, hiking, people who are just trying to stay fit and healthy. You know, as I age, I realize how important these things are.

I feel lucky to have spent a lifetime in this space because I think just personally, it's helped me to live better. And if we can do that, if we can deliver a better experience, a better life for people, we'll thrive and succeed, I'm sure.

Colin True

00:22:51.440 - 00:22:55.600

So, last question. What's something about Topo that most people don't know?

Tony Post

00:22:56.640 - 00:23:40.710

Well, that's a good question. You know, I'm always amazed when people say, you Know, I say topo was a nickname I had in college, and they say, oh, Topo, that's you. Yeah.

So I went to a reunion. I guess I can say this.

I went to my 50th high school reunion, and I was talking to the husband of a woman that I knew in high school, and I was saying I was in the shoe industry or in the shoe business, and he's like, oh, man, I just found this.

And he went on to tell me this whole thing about Topo, and I just kind of let him run on for a little bit, you know, and it was so fun to be able to do it. And then. And then, of course, eventually I had to tell him. And they were. They were, you know, they were really happy.

Colin True

00:23:40.710 - 00:23:45.830

But I guess it would have been a little weird if you put, like, a picture of your face on every shoe, like, it's me, you know?

Tony Post

00:23:45.910 - 00:23:49.590

Yeah, no, it was. So that's a fun little story. Anyway.

Colin True

00:23:49.590 - 00:23:53.270

Well, Tony, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us, and appreciate it very much.

Tony Post

00:23:53.270 - 00:24:05.600

Yeah, thanks, guys. I appreciate what you do, too. Really enjoy your interviews.

I think you bring a lot of value to the industry, and I think you keep it entertaining, which is so, you know, that's what makes it easy to listen to often. So well done.

Colin True

00:24:05.600 - 00:27:01.940

Appreciate that. Thanks, Tony. All right, it's time for the parting shot presented by Garage Grown Gear.

Make sure to head over to GarageGrowingear.com and check out everything that is new over there. Just click when you get there. There's a little. Little, like, navigation bar, and you'll see a little flaming new button. Check that out.

I think they add things, like, seemingly every day. Check it out. There's always so much cool stuff over on garagegrowngear.com and we love their partnership here on the Rock flight.

Thank you to Lloyd and Maggie and everybody else over there. Party shot today. Quick parting shot. Maybe not so quick. I don't know. We'll see how this goes. But it's for hoka, all right.

Because I've been testing a ton of trail running and gravel shoes lately, and most of the models I've tried that have had that maximal style midsole that, you know, HOKA is popularized. It just makes for a plodding, not fun experience.

Now, when I was back at Timberland back in 2006, we launched Go Light footwear, which was a trail running specific line of shoes that had various technologies that eventually would become mainstream. So, like, if you think that Altra and Topo were the first trail running brands to deploy a foot shaped toe box, you'd be wrong.

We did that with Go Light four years before those other brands existed. One other technology that Go Light used was what we called soft against the ground technology. In short, this was hoka before hoka.

The idea is to lessen impact and smooth out the trail in front of you through midsole and outsole tech. And has definitely since been refined, most notably by hoka. In my experience trying hoka, I think they nailed that sort of maximal experience.

But aside from the Mount to Coast H1S, any other model I've tried recently, anyway, that deploys a soft, thick midsole, well, it feels like it's just sapping the energy from my body as I'm hiking or running in them.

Now, I don't know what the secret sauce is to having a snappy, energetic and thick midsole, but it seems like a lot of brands when they're designing these shoes, just think that they can win over consumers with a cushy midsole that gets the win based on out of the box comfort and not through legit performance.

And I understand that if you're, if you're somebody, you're sitting in a store and you're putting it on and there's an immediate, ooh, cushy feeling, but when you go out in them, it just feels like you're wearing sponges on your feet. So even though they probably still do it the best, my parting shot is for hoka, because God damn it, hoka, you popularized this whole thing.

And while I'd like to throw a rock at Golay Footwear for pioneering the idea, they've been dead since 2008. So, Hoka, you get this rock. Actually, maybe I should take that back because you're doing it the best. I don't know.

Bottom line is, all of these other people who are trying to mimic what HOKA does, a lot of you aren't pulling it off. And that's my parting shot. All right, that's the show for today. Big thanks to my guest, Tony Post. Thank you, Tony, for sitting down with us.

The Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight llc. I'm Colin True. This episode was produced by producer Dave. Thanks for listening.

And here to take us out like he always is is Kristen Makes with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.

Chris DeMakes

00:27:01.940 - 00:28:02.580

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