Tradeshow News Recap + America's Next Top Trail Running Brand!
- colin7931
- 3 hours ago
- 50 min read
Today on The Rock Fight, Colin, Eoin Comerford, and Producer Dave put three buzzworthy trail running brands to the test in the first-ever America’s Next Top Trail Running Brand showdown.
Focusing on Brand Position, Retail Appeal, and wear test performance, the trio have a look at Speedland, Norda, and Mount to Coast to crown one who will move on to the next round (provided there will be a next round).
But before the big shoe showdown, they have a look at a couple of stories that have come out of the outdoor trade show scene:
OIA and Switchback’s deeper partnership (and what it means for Outdoor Retailer)
The new Cascade Summit trade show launching in Portland in 2026
Next Adventure LIVES!
Nike vs. Adidas:Â Can Adi take down the top dog?
Lastly for The Parting Shot presented by Garage Grown Gear, Colin uses history as a bucket of cold water for all of the people out there who think that trail running is the next big mainstream sport.
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Episode Transcript:
Producer Dave
00:00:01.600 - 00:00:48.850
This just in. Breaking news from the Rock Fight. Rumors are swirling about a merger between two outdoor footwear titans.
While news blackout protocols are in effect, we are unable to name brands involved in the transaction. However, this hasn't stopped wild speculation from populating LinkedIn that a monster RE release is in the works.
Plans for a potential collab were recently spotted near a local watering hole. Adding to the frenzy, the new item called Jungle Croc, comes in at 17ft long and contains nearly 900 pounds of proprietary closed cell resin Fury.
Placing the new shoe has reportedly been difficult as floor models consistently eat their smaller trail ridding neighbors. With some Jungle Crocs even taking down the occasional 10 inch logger boot or small child who's touching things they were told not to.
Colin True
00:00:49.730 - 00:01:21.610
Alright, while that may not be true, you know what is true? Ibex Merino is as home in your shop as Dale's in a drag bag.
We're talking authentic heritage, real sustainability, privately owned and of course premium performance that has become legendary.
From everyday essentials like the goatee to expedition ready pieces like the mammoth hoodie, Ibex has a premium Merino lair ready to outfit any of your customers. Schedule some time with the Ibex team at Goa Connect in Kansas City this November and Ibex Premium Merino. And that's not a Croc.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:21.770 - 00:01:29.050
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:01:30.170 - 00:01:45.450
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and joining me today are they the new mystery owners of Next Adventure.
It's Owen Comerford and producer Dave.
Producer Dave
00:01:45.450 - 00:01:47.690
I wish we'd thought about that. That was good.
Eoin Comerford
00:01:48.090 - 00:01:51.110
I can neither confirm nor den any ownership.
Colin True
00:01:51.910 - 00:01:58.230
Did they put the new Rock Fight sign above it yet? You know, Next Adventure presented by the Rock Fight. That's what we should put on the outside, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:01:59.430 - 00:02:03.670
What I wanted to be. Rock Fight presented by Next Adventure. And it gets get some ad revenue out of this too.
Colin True
00:02:03.670 - 00:02:06.310
Yeah, there we go. Because they clearly have so much money.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:06.790 - 00:02:07.590
So much money.
Colin True
00:02:08.950 - 00:02:54.700
All those, those clearance dollars. We will be talking a little bit about Next Adventure coming up.
We'll also today be anointing America's next top trip rail running brand after we get into a whole slew of trade show news that have come out over the last week. But first some programming reminders like we always do because we never want you, the listener to miss an episode of the Rock Fight.
So please click follow on the podcast app you're using to listen to this show right now. It's the best way to make sure you don't miss an episode. Come back on Thursday this week to the Gear Abby feed, which you should also be following.
Host Shantay Salibair will answer all of your Burning Outdoor questions and maybe give you some ibuprofen or antibiotics to help with those Burning Outdoor questions. If you know Shantae, you know what I'm talking about. Listen to Gear Abby and follow that show. And hey, Dave, if people want more.
Producer Dave
00:02:54.700 - 00:03:09.870
From the Rock Fight, more about what you're talking about. That's right. That's in the newsletter. Subscribe to the newsletter. News from the front. It is our semi weekly, semi, semi newsletter.
Head to Rockfight Co sign up goes right to your inbox. It's pretty slick.
Colin True
00:03:10.910 - 00:03:17.710
This is the point of the show where I either feel ashamed that I haven't sent one recently or pretty good, like, oh, I just sent one out the other day. And this week I feel ashamed.
Chris DeMakes
00:03:19.870 - 00:03:20.350
Shame.
Colin True
00:03:21.230 - 00:03:24.670
Oh, and if our listeners would like to reach out to us, how can they do that?
Eoin Comerford
00:03:24.830 - 00:03:52.500
They should definitely email us and not Girabi. No, I guess they can email Girabi too, but email us@myrockvicemail.com reach out to us on LinkedIn.
Just search up Rock Fight or on Instagram where we are Rock Fight Co. All one word and send us a dm. By the way, I just listened to the Gear Abbey show. Another great episode with none other than Killian Journey. Are you.
You guys are like big time, big time over on the Gear Abbey, huh?
Colin True
00:03:52.660 - 00:03:58.500
I'm just waiting for the time you're trying to get someone who's heard me on this podcast and they decide not to book Gear Abbey. That's what I'm worried about.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:58.900 - 00:04:12.400
Oh, there is definitely a case for that and we have confirmed that it. Journey. Journey. Because he's Spanish, he's not French. Right. He definitely goes by Journey. That's.
Colin True
00:04:12.400 - 00:04:16.480
I mean, that's what happened when. That's what they said when Shantae spoke to him. So I'm going to go off of that.
Producer Dave
00:04:16.480 - 00:04:22.800
And it rhymes with Shant Journey. It just sounds better. Yeah.
Colin True
00:04:22.880 - 00:04:26.960
And it's Killian with one L. And as a one L, Colin, I can appreciate that.
Producer Dave
00:04:27.120 - 00:04:28.360
Oh, interesting.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:28.360 - 00:04:30.400
Well, aren't most Collins 1L?
Colin True
00:04:30.480 - 00:04:32.840
They should be. You see Irish guy, you get it, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:32.840 - 00:04:33.160
Right?
Colin True
00:04:33.160 - 00:04:37.680
I've always said 2L Collins. If you're all listening, you're a bunch of posers. All right, drop the second L you don't need.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:38.380 - 00:04:44.060
And if you're a 1L colon. Just stop. Just stop.
Producer Dave
00:04:45.820 - 00:04:47.260
I think we found our mark.
Colin True
00:04:48.860 - 00:05:05.420
All right, guys, so we're gonna start on 2026 outdoor trade show Watch. Cause things continue to get even more interesting and complicated in the outdoor industry trade show scene.
First up, Switchback and the Outdoor Industry association are taking their relationship to a whole new level to celebrate their one year anniversary.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:05.580 - 00:05:09.500
Wow. Okay, deeper.
Colin True
00:05:11.080 - 00:06:09.430
Per a press release put out last week on Switchback's website, Diversified Communications, owner of the show, announced that the nascent trade show and the OIA are quote, deepening their relationship with OIA president Kent Ebersol stating that, quote, this partnership confirms that attending Switchback is an investment in the future of the outdoor industry. So what does deepening actually mean?
Well, according to the press release, again quoting here, under the terms of the revamped relationship, OIA will support Diversified in shaping the future of Switchback through expanded influence on the selection of future dates and venues, on educational and nonprofit association elements, on the development and promotion of key data initiatives, and in the building direct connections with OIA membership through enhanced communications and visibility at OIA hosted events. Not a ton of substance in that statement, if I'm being honest, you know, like. But I get it.
You know, I think this basically seems very much like a shot across the bow at Emerald and outdoor retailer and their recent moves. I mean, Owen, what do you make of this?
Eoin Comerford
00:06:10.330 - 00:06:48.850
Well, I mean, let's read between the lines here. Okay. Deepening their relationship means paying more money. Right? That's what that means. Right.
And really, I think actually the OIA folks played this pretty deftly because I think they took the call from or and they sound interested. And then they really just leverage that to go back to the Switchback folks and say, well, you know, we're talking to.
Or they, they kind of want to get back, you know, back in bed with us here. You know, we had this very long term and financial relationship with, with the, the Emerald folks for a lot of years.
What are you going to do for us here?
Colin True
00:06:49.170 - 00:06:51.730
My ex called. You know, they want the therapy.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:52.130 - 00:07:04.610
Exactly. And so. Yeah, so you want to put a ring on this finger or what? Right, right.
So I think, yeah, I think they're getting, they're getting hitched and yeah, I think it was. There was some, some leverage there.
Colin True
00:07:05.090 - 00:07:21.650
Yeah, I think we're gonna try and have Kent come on from the OAA in the next few weeks for sure. What do you think this means though, for. Or.
I mean, they alluded to that they were pursuing this when you and I spoke to them a few weeks ago after the announcement of the show and moving to Minnesota. Where do you think this leaves them right now?
Eoin Comerford
00:07:22.530 - 00:08:28.350
Well, it's not good news, I would say. As we talked about, we felt that getting brands to these show was one of the keys and that OIA was probably the fastest way to make that happen.
So now maybe you look at some other industry wide entities that might help, maybe the conservation Alliance, I don't know, maybe 1% for the planet, who knows? But what are those other macro level groups that could drive that otherwise then really you're going to be trying to pick off brands one by one.
If I were in or shoes, I'd probably be making some sweetheart deals to a few leading brands to grab some headlines, get the ball rolling, be able to announce, oh, we have so and so. We have so and so.
We have so and so three major brands that are covering, you know, gear, apparel, footwear, whatever that are real, real, you know, outdoor brands.
Get them on board, maybe offer them advisory roles, whatever, whatever to try to sort of set the stage that this is going to be the place where true outdoor brands are convening.
Colin True
00:08:28.430 - 00:08:34.910
Dave, with that in mind, have they reached out to you yet about co locating producer Dave Kahn at outdoor Retailer in the works?
Producer Dave
00:08:35.390 - 00:08:45.490
Is that plan been in discussions for a while? There's some logistics we still got to figure out, like how to attract a crowd. But other than that we're well, they.
Colin True
00:08:45.490 - 00:10:03.740
Might have some competition because a new show now is coming to your town. That was the next story.
Next up on the trade show front, you know we're breaking news here on the Rock Fight that a new show will be entering the fray in 2026. Official word via press release that will drop the day after this episode of the Rock Fight comes out.
But we've been tipped off that the Cascade Summit show is coming to Portland, Oregon in February of 2026.
According to the forthcoming press release, quote, the Cascade Summit show recognizes the need for stripped down exhibition services for smaller brands with smaller budgets in the outdoor trade show landscape. So a few things that these guys are looking to do differently. One is a brand cap.
They're going to only allow brands with less than $5 billion in annual revenue. They're going to standardize booths. Each exhibitor is going to have a 10 by 10 and a six foot table, two chairs, no upgrades available.
Very clear in that. They're also addressing pricing. So booth fees are going to range from 800 bucks if you're a brand under $500,000.
And if you're a brand between 2 and 5 million dollars, it's going to cost you $3,000 to exhibit. And if you're a buyer, it's just going to cost you 50 bucks.
There's a $50 registration fee that demonstrates buyer dedication to discovering new brands. They say the show is aiming to attract 100 to 150 brands to exhibit and 150 to 300 retail buyers at its inaugural show.
Owen, do you think the industry is ready for an event like this?
Eoin Comerford
00:10:04.140 - 00:11:17.020
Well, I do think that there's definitely a space and a need for better places for emerging brands to exhibit and exhibit cost effectively. So I think the need is there. Is this the show that's going to do it? Not so sure. First of all, I think they may get some of the emerging brands.
They're in that sort of ecosystem. But getting the buyers to pay to attend is going to be a tough sell. Right? I mean, other shows are actually offering travel allowance.
It's free to the buyers and they're offering a travel allowance to get them to the show. So I really don't know that that's going to land too well in the current retail environment.
And getting 150 to 300 retailers when the first switchback I think got 125 seems like a bit of a stretch. I love the idea of the sliding scale for booth costing. I think that that's great and shows support and understanding of these emerging brands.
I that, you know, three grand on the high end is, would be a tough sell because basically that is more than you'd pay to be at Switchback, a much, a much bigger show. And then finally Portland in February. Woof. Not, not, not to hate on Portland.
Colin True
00:11:17.580 - 00:11:19.900
But I mean, your third week in a row hating on Portland.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:19.900 - 00:11:57.500
Well, hey, Dave hated on me. Dave basically said Michigan didn't even cross his mind. So, you know, hey, he did say especially in February.
Well, I'd rather be in Michigan in February than in Portland. But I think you're going to struggle to get anybody east of the Mississippi, quite frankly, especially if you're in the independent specialty space.
And getting to Portland is not great. I checked prices. If I were, if I were to fly from Detroit, it was going to cost me 900 bucks. No direct flights.
And I mean, like if I was at Moose Trout, we would, we would basically say, you know, this is interesting, but maybe we'll wait for year two.
Colin True
00:11:58.290 - 00:13:02.660
Yeah, I like what this is doing and it's something that we said. I think that or I wish I'd leaned in a little Bit more even in their announcement of moving to Minnesota.
You know, they kind of, they, they still wanted to present themselves as they called themselves the premier outdoor event and then kind of buried you know, the, the relationship they're forging with Lloyd at Garage Grown and things at the end when I feel like that's the opportunity for you guys, right? If, if Switchback now has all these, all our big endemic brands locked up with the oia, the emerging brand is the opportunity. And I.
So this is an interesting kind of development in that regard. If they're saying, hey, this is what this is all about. So I think that's great.
But I do think, you know, my knee jerk here is, you know, regardless of the timing, they're probably gonna have the same challenges that OR has faced over the past few years because OR has been saying that that's what they have been for the past few years. I do think the Consumer Day is a mistake. I didn't mention there's going to be a consumer Day as well. That has just been proven. It doesn't work.
I think, look, there's a high, I think there is a high upside here, but I think this probably goes more the path of like a big gear show ultimately. But you know, I'm open to it. I'd be interested if they want us to come up and check it out.
I'd be interested in checking it out, depending on how it goes. But Dave, do you have anything you wanna weigh in here?
Producer Dave
00:13:02.660 - 00:14:16.570
Matt? All I hear you guys talk about is how the status quo isn't working. Oh no, no, no. And then now we have somebody trying to do something different.
Look, it's a first year show. How, you know, all those challenges you've said are the same ones that switch back and anybody else is gonna have in their first show.
I think it does speak to the need that we've all talked about and identified as a way to get smaller brands up and percolating and awareness and in front of people and so that, you know, and maybe it is a regional show, maybe that's what it does end up being versus, you know, trying to be national out of the gate. But I like the stripped down model of it, you know.
You know, one thing you don't have to deal with the convention centers and the added costs of just even getting your modest booth together, things like that. I mean that's a real, that's a real impact on the budget. Let's see the Consumer Day.
Like I said, I think when you have big convention halls and you're competing with outdoorsman shows and things like that. This is just definitely much more modest in terms of footprint and being gear focused. And I think that's where the big gear show was trying to go.
Pretty big, pretty fast. And this feels a little bit smaller, kind of just more modest in that.
Colin True
00:14:17.240 - 00:14:43.720
Well, the national swing is a pretty big swing. I think you're right.
I wonder if a more regional emerging brands because to Owen's point, that was always even with or like living in the Northeast and getting to Salt Lake City was not. Was expensive and tough. Right. So that to kind of have an unknown and say, hey, we want you to come to this.
If it becomes more the hey, here's the Northwest emerging brand show, and then we grow it from there. Yeah, maybe that's interesting. I think you're right. I mean, I think we all agree that the need or the want is there. Is this going to be. Is this.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:43.720 - 00:14:44.200
Is this.
Producer Dave
00:14:44.440 - 00:14:57.130
What is that sound? What's that sound I hear in the back? Is that. Is that a gate being kept? I think. Is that what's going on?
Like, oh my gosh, are you calling us gatekeepers? Just saying.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:57.290 - 00:15:29.470
I mean, the consumer show piece of it. Flipping from a trade show to consumer show is a nightmare for a brand, having seen it in action at the big ear show.
So I think you have to go all in on one or the other and you can actually do both as long as you keep to like. Like Sea Otter for example. Really a consumer show, but a bunch of brands, right. That show up there and that can kind of.
But trying to be all things to all people is tough. Not to mention the ad budget to get consumers to show up has to be part of the equation and is not easy.
Producer Dave
00:15:29.470 - 00:15:30.230
It's a good point.
Colin True
00:15:30.550 - 00:16:02.560
So I think one thing that we should talk about though is that like, you know, and by the way, full disclosure, we'll be at Switchback. We have not yet been invited to or. Or this new show in Portland. So I. You can interpret this as me being a shill for diversified.
But the truth here, I feel like is that Switchback could probably put an end to all this by kind of giving godfather offers to emerging brands to show up at Switchback, potentially also by moving out of June. Those are the two sort of weak spots I feel like in what they're doing.
You know, I do wonder if that is something that they should consider or if they maybe they have considered and they're just not seeing the upside. I mean, Owen, do you think that's a path for that show.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:02.800 - 00:16:29.820
It really depends on what they're about.
I mean, I think ultimately I do think those are the two elements or the two inroads for or quite frankly is the timing and what they offer to emerging brands. You know, they've already kind of cut off the potentially the OA aspect, and maybe they're fine, maybe they think that's enough.
But those would be the other two areas that I think could be traction points.
Colin True
00:16:30.140 - 00:16:58.340
All right, and last thing for today while we're talking trade shows.
So, Owen, last week you proposed the idea that Grassroots Connect should have a happy hour on the show floor where the booths are opened up so that brands can attract new retailers and not just meet with existing accounts. Well, I wanted you to be able to take a victory lap because according to GOA president Gabe Meyer, they've been doing this for two years already.
So how are we spinning this? Owen? This is a great minds think alike. Are you just owning the myths? Maybe you're just a little bit of a doofus. What are we saying?
Eoin Comerford
00:17:00.820 - 00:17:30.130
Okay, first of all, clearly it was a great idea. Great idea, great idea. The only issue with the idea was that somebody else had the idea about two years ago. So that's the one thing I would say.
The other thing is I have been to a number of GA shows. I typically leave after the first day. This happens on the second and third day. So I didn't know that it same, actually. So, yeah, so, yeah, great.
Great minds think alike. Plus, I'm a doofus. Yes.
Colin True
00:17:30.930 - 00:17:32.610
All right, you guys ready for the lightning round?
Eoin Comerford
00:17:32.850 - 00:17:33.970
Oh, so ready.
Chris DeMakes
00:17:36.530 - 00:17:37.810
Lightning round.
Colin True
00:17:40.870 - 00:17:59.190
Two topics this week. We already alluded to one earlier in the show.
First up, according to sgb, a group of mystery buyers has emerged to buy Portland's next adventure and keep the store from closing. Oh, and that's two saved GOA accounts in two weeks. If you include Rutabaga.
Cardo announced here on today's show that you now have two new retailers in your portfolio.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:01.030 - 00:18:49.580
I'm not investing in retail right now, but I do think this is a very similar story to Rutabaga, which is that the owners probably talked to the managers about buying the store before they closed. And the managers were like, well, we don't have any cash. And so that was kind of the end of that discussion.
But then after they were announced, investors from the community came out and said, hey, we're willing to back the managers to take over and run the store. So really cool.
And what it talks to me, what it says to me just is how important and different Outdoor Retailers to a community versus other forms of retail. Right. You're not going to see this happen if the local furniture store or office supply store shuts down. Right?
I mean, nobody really cares, but people and communities really care about their outdoor retailer.
Producer Dave
00:18:49.580 - 00:19:06.720
Yeah.
This has been all over the Portland media in a way that you just wouldn't get from the, from the broadcast to the newspaper to, you know, the Portland centric TikTok, you know, and Instagrams, things like that. So people like you said there is definitely this is resonating for sure.
Colin True
00:19:06.720 - 00:19:10.880
Dave, I have to ask that the frog costume protesters have anything to do with this move.
Producer Dave
00:19:11.200 - 00:19:12.400
No comment, Colin.
Colin True
00:19:12.720 - 00:19:32.660
All right, next up, according to an article on retail dive, athletic giant Adidas may be going for the top dog.
The article details how Nike is in rebuilding mode while Adidas is on an absolute heater with double digit growth in the past year and plans to make the brand quote more American. Owen, what do you think? Can Adidas pull this off before nightly fully gets its mojo back?
Eoin Comerford
00:19:34.180 - 00:20:55.550
Probably not, you know, and I'm not sure how much of the Adidas momentum is them riding the wave of the overall athletic footwear expansion versus them truly taking a whole ton of share. And there's a lot of share going around between Hoka and On and Brooks and all these folks.
But they're really interesting thing to me in this article was how they are pointing to the fact that Adidas in a very un German move is empowering their regional leadership to make decisions. Right. I mean typically historically German companies you report to, you ask HQ for all of your direction. So that's super cool.
And actually if you remember, I think it was earlier this year Adidas had a pretty significant layoff.
But in talking to insiders, all of those roles were at headquarters and basically what they were doing was they were eliminating those duplicated roles for things like marketing and distribution, et cetera at the global level. Because that's now all happening in the regional level. So that I think is super interesting.
The key question for me though is how American are they going to get and are we actually going to see American specific products or product development or even fit? I don't know about you guys, but I've always found Adidas fit to be a little tight for footwear. So yeah, I don't know, it'd be interesting.
Interesting to see where they go with this.
Colin True
00:20:55.550 - 00:20:57.990
Dave, is either outcome good for your hometown?
Producer Dave
00:20:58.150 - 00:21:13.830
Well, sure, but let's be clear when we talk about gaining steep Nike is twice as big as Adidas, so it's like this idea that their double digit gain is somehow making meaningful impact into that is more superstars kind of silly.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:13.830 - 00:21:20.110
Right now in fairness, day Nike used to be three times the size of Adidas.
Producer Dave
00:21:20.510 - 00:21:21.230
Fair enough.
Colin True
00:21:21.470 - 00:21:22.510
A third of the way there.
Producer Dave
00:21:23.230 - 00:22:29.970
Right.
And in terms of the regionality, that's actually how Adidas got to their second rise in the 90s and 2000s was that they did cede control to the regions. The United States had its own product development team and marketing team.
And there was definitely a hands off to that as the brand started to get itself back into basketball, American sports, you know, revenue drivers as originals became online. Those were driven by the US and so it's not, it's something that they're not unfamiliar with for sure.
And I know that a lot of the senior leadership there all go back to some of those days as well. So I think they have seen the benefits of what that can do.
And clearly, you know, the, you know, digital marketing has kind of probably promoted that as well as we look at our regions more closely with a finer tooth comb. So I think it's, I think it's a good move for sure to get let a little bit more control from those regions.
Have just in the, as we, as we, you know, the taste and the, and the nuance of how we, you know, send our messages out and even, you know, product preference, things like that, I think it's a good thing.
Colin True
00:22:30.690 - 00:22:39.570
All right, this one is for all the gear makers out there. The biggest barrier for killer new products is sourcing the right fabrics. Working with mills is a pain and too often you get stuck with.
Chris DeMakes
00:22:41.580 - 00:22:41.780
I'm.
Producer Dave
00:22:41.780 - 00:22:53.820
Sorry you just said the biggest, the biggest barrier to is all. And I'm like, no, Colin, it's money. That's not the biggest error, that's the biggest barrier.
Colin True
00:22:54.060 - 00:23:30.140
The second biggest barrier for killer new products is sourcing the right fabrics. Working with mills is a pain and too often you get stuck with whatever sort of fits.
Well, what if we told you there was a partner who, who works with you to design, source and curate fabrics that enhance your product line? And that partner is Rip Stop by the Roll. Ripstop by the Roll is your one stop shop for the perfect fabric solution to your next hit piece of gear.
These guys handle the headaches and will work with you to develop or find the right solution. From yarn to finished fabric to fit your design. They have the application experts and production partners to make your job easy.
And I doubt any of their fabrics.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:30.140 - 00:23:32.700
Squeak unless you want it to. Yes, you can have a.
Producer Dave
00:23:32.700 - 00:23:36.910
Unless that's part of the brief. College. Let's not cut that off. Like I think there's something.
Colin True
00:23:36.910 - 00:23:40.230
There is on a rip stop by the world customer. Should we investigate this?
Producer Dave
00:23:40.230 - 00:23:45.150
Interesting. Maybe they're trying to attract raptors and birds of prey. Like that's pretty cool.
Colin True
00:23:47.230 - 00:24:20.600
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Winter's unpredictable, guys. Mild one week, it's freezing the next. I mean, I grew up back in the mid Atlantic. Every inch of snow was exciting until it melted into a soupy mess.
And then to make things worse, it would refreeze on the driveway, making walking across it impossible. It's just going to be Owen's daily life here in about six weeks.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:20.600 - 00:24:23.000
It's beautiful right now in Michigan. I'll tell you.
Colin True
00:24:23.640 - 00:24:24.520
No snow yet.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:25.080 - 00:24:25.480
Yet.
Colin True
00:24:26.040 - 00:24:26.440
Yet.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:28.530 - 00:24:38.210
You people over there in the west because you think that, that Michigan is this like snowy mess. No, I mean, we get some snow, but it's, it's, it's, it's cloudy and dull.
Producer Dave
00:24:38.210 - 00:24:44.290
But I hate to tell you. Oh, and it's, it's worse than that. We don't think of it at all. Oh.
Colin True
00:24:45.730 - 00:24:47.250
John Draper, Michigan.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:47.250 - 00:24:50.610
Okay. Okay, Mr. Portland. Jesus.
Producer Dave
00:24:50.930 - 00:25:00.770
Look, I can't go. You know, when you, when you're on the west coast and you think about the east coast, like Colorado, it's just, it's hard. Anything past that is just.
Colin True
00:25:00.850 - 00:25:05.010
Dave, you are on one today. I told you no edibles before the podcast.
Producer Dave
00:25:06.610 - 00:25:08.210
No, it's not a mommy.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:08.690 - 00:25:09.250
That's right.
Colin True
00:25:11.730 - 00:25:53.950
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Eoin Comerford
00:25:54.110 - 00:25:55.630
Or is it going to say spam. Com?
Colin True
00:25:56.110 - 00:28:04.020
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Check us out at lifelabs.design Life Labs the Future of Feel Good Performance all right, today for our kind of main topic, we're going to be anointing America's next top trail running brand, right?
And with the running category dominating most industry conversations these days, we want to take a deeper look at a few of the up and coming brands out there, specifically in the trail running space. The because we don't really.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:04.020 - 00:28:06.740
We don't really talk enough about trail running on this podcast.
Colin True
00:28:06.740 - 00:29:21.040
So, you know, going through. That's true, but going through this exercise made me feel like maybe we could actually talk about it a little more.
It's amazing to me how these brands are like very small market share but showing up in all of the retailers like it's really kind of incredible. They're sort of like bucking a lot of trends. I feel like we talk about here on on the Rock fight.
So what we're going to do today is we're going to look at three up and comers. Our brand and creative expert, producer Dave is going to evaluate brand position.
Our most trusted advisor in Consiglieri, Owen, is going to take a look at the brand and the models from the retail shelf appeal perspective or just even the retailer perspective. And I've tested at least one shoe from each of these brands to bring a performance comparison. We're going to apply a score of 1 to 5.
5 is the best, 1 is the worst to each of these categories. So the highest score a brand can receive is 15, lowest is 3 and then you know, the brand with the highest score will move on to the next round.
When we do this again, if we do, depending on how well this goes. So the three brands we're going to look at today are Speedland, Norda and Mount Dacost.
None of these brands, like I mentioned, have had have hugely significant market share, but they're each carrying a certain level of buzz and getting a lot of attention from the trail running community. So before we kind of jump into the first one here, any questions, clarifications on the exercise?
Eoin Comerford
00:29:21.040 - 00:29:23.250
Guys, ready to go?
Colin True
00:29:23.410 - 00:30:19.150
All right, so we're starting with Speedland, which was featured on our first edition of the Brief with producer Dave. So let's start there. Some quick Speedland facts.
The brand launched in 2021, it kind of eschews most visual conventions or aesthetics and focuses entirely on performance. They're not worried about looking good for casual use or for wearing at the bar afterwards.
According to Trail Waves, which is a popular newsletter focused on the business of trail running, Speedland made up about 2.9% of the field at the recent Hardwalk 1 Hard Rock 100. With the usual players you would expect at the top. The Salomons, Hokas, Altras, all kind of making up the majority of the field.
But that's a pretty strong showing for a four year old brand. Lastly, Speedland is a very expensive brand with their cheapest model coming in at $250. So let's start with the retailer's point of view. Owen.
Speedland's retail presence looks to be pretty light and they appear to be mostly a D2C brand. What do you like about the brand from a retail point of view? What don't you like?
Eoin Comerford
00:30:19.310 - 00:30:42.810
One of the first things I look at with the brand other than just the product is what's their distribution, what's their price focus. So I like that these guys have limited distribution.
They're only in actually 24 specialty stores in the U.S. but what's really concerning to me is that they are on Amazon with a 25% off coupon right now. Oh, that is a big old flashing red light.
Colin True
00:30:43.130 - 00:30:44.490
We need money. We need money.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:45.370 - 00:31:36.370
Exactly. We've gone into specialty. We're not getting enough volume there. So we've basically sold our soul.
Also kind of off putting as a retailer potentially looking at them that they have partnered with a single retailer running warehouse for all of their international shipping. So those are a couple of knocks against them there. The other thing is just the price point, right? They are in rarefied air. Like you look at.
A lot of their shoes are at the $299 price point like the GLSVT. And that's before you pay 35 bucks for their carbon fiber plate. I mean it's like, Woof, we're approaching 350 bucks here for a pair of sho.
And then quite frankly in terms of shelf appeal, this is not a good looking shoe. It just isn't. So for me, I give it like a two out of five quite frankly.
Colin True
00:31:36.690 - 00:33:05.690
Yeah, you might be generous there. I think what we're seeing there probably is a lot of what people don't want to acknowledge is like, oh, it's all about performance or whatever.
And it's like actually how something looks and the appeal beyond the activity does matter here. So I tested the Speedland, it was the GS Rars. That model was evolved into their TMT model.
But basically it's the same shoe and it has you mentioned the removable carbon fiber plate. A 7mil drop 40mil stack height at the heel. Look, the shoe performed great.
I think we talked about it in an old episode of Gear and Beer and it fit great. I didn't like the plate, but taking the plate out, I actually really liked hiking and running in them.
I don't like boas in general, but you know, but they're fine. That's just not my, that's a taste thing probably more than anything else. I would not choose to pay for these for 275 bucks.
But I'm also not maybe the target audience here. Right. I'm not looking to go run 100 mile race right now. If I were a serious Ultra Runner.
They actually might be high on my list because the fit is great, the performance was great, but you know, I think it's just really, really limited by its look and it's all in play on performance only.
So I'm going to give it from a wear test point of view a 3.7 because it's better than, you know, it's a good shoe, it fit, it did exactly what they said it would, what it would do. But I would not buy them on my own. And I think they're gonna have a tough time finding the more anything other than the elite user here.
Dave, you've already done a whole episode about the brand of Speedland. But you know what do you think?
Producer Dave
00:33:05.770 - 00:34:54.690
All of these brands kind of fit into the same kind of category brand wise. So you know, just to kind of get that out, I. They're all kind of that minimal. No, no nonsense, kind of serious. This is a runner runner's brand.
They obviously fall into that. Their look, I call it so mechanical. It must be functional. You know, that's kind of that.
And to your point, the BOA is kind of your inner your out on that. And so that's a tough thing to be the initial. So like you said, when you're looking at it, you gotta be in or not their brand message.
And this is like I said, very typical of these brands. It's runners running race day. A lot of anguish on racers and a lot of beautiful runners in nice settings.
Lots of UGC user generated content, bringing it in, nice product shots. It's all the pieces that you would expect of a brand of a premium running brand. Nothing more, nothing less.
They lean a little bit more into their storytelling about product creation because they are footwear designer developer types who've founded this and so that's their strength and clearly that's what they're doing with the silhouettes. They have a good stable of athletes, you know, and they have grown quickly even though they're very, very niche.
They have, like you said, they've kind of created a presence that's a little bit above their weight. They just had three Americans on the, what is it, the IAU 24 Hour Ultra Championships in France. So getting.
They're getting shoes on people that matter. And honestly I think if you are wondering how they've managed such quick growth, they do sponsor Dylan Bowman's free trail podcast.
So I just want to say that.
Colin True
00:34:54.770 - 00:34:56.650
Clearly, I know Dylan's been clearly the.
Producer Dave
00:34:56.650 - 00:35:02.980
Power of podcast advertising works people. I'm just saying 100% just saying like, that's.
Colin True
00:35:03.690 - 00:35:04.890
So it's not Amazon.
Producer Dave
00:35:04.970 - 00:35:25.930
No, no. It's podcast advertising. Okay. That's how you want to do it.
So like I said, they kind of fit into that, kind of that literal sense, despite the animal pun. Kind of creative that they did before, which we talked about. But I would probably go 2, 5. 2.5 right down the middle.
Colin True
00:35:25.930 - 00:35:26.570
2.5.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:27.530 - 00:35:43.150
All right. I wonder if the ugliness, though, is actually part of the appeal here a little bit.
Just because it's like if you, you know, walk into a bar in a pair of nordis, whatever. Like, oh, okay, you got this cool looking shoes. You walk into the bar in a pair of spilans. Like, oh, are you a trail runner?
Producer Dave
00:35:43.150 - 00:35:43.750
Yeah. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:43.750 - 00:35:46.230
Because there's no other reason you would wear those shoes.
Producer Dave
00:35:46.230 - 00:36:02.790
Look, it is a unique look, regardless if you like it or not, is a unique, definable language. And so if they can catch something, sure. Again, to me though, it's the boa. And the boa looks the same on all shoes. It all.
I mean, so now you're kind of.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:02.790 - 00:36:05.620
Playing in that world and, and I.
Colin True
00:36:06.340 - 00:36:35.310
That honestly could be a deciding factor for me. Like, I don't want boas and you can't take the boa off. So it's kind of like there you go. That you're either in or you're out.
That being said, if I were truly going for it. Yeah, like I said, the, the. From a performance perspective, it's, it's, it makes an argument.
But the final score for Speedland, we came in at 8.2 out of 15. I think the. But the only thing that is objectively worrisome about anything that any of us said was Owen's point about Amazon. That's a big red flag.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:35.390 - 00:36:47.790
Whatever about being on Amazon. I don't necessarily ding you for being on Amazon because, hey, it is 50% of all E commerce.
But being on Amazon with a 25% off coupon, woof, that's rough.
Colin True
00:36:48.190 - 00:37:28.660
All right, let's talk about Norda. So Norda was founded in 2020 up in Canada. They say their mission is to create a better trail running shoe that lasts longer.
They accurately have observed the poor sustainability track record in the running footwear space.
And they say they're aiming to change from a look perspective, much simpler, obviously valuing a very clean aesthetic as they do a shoe that lasts longer than 200 or 300 miles. They are also expensive, their base model clocking in at $295. And in that trail waves Hard rock recap, Norda was 1.9% of the field.
Oh, and what do you think about norda? Nice, nice wholesale biz actually they have going on over there. Right now they're in MEC and rei. What do you think?
Eoin Comerford
00:37:29.610 - 00:38:42.890
I would definitely buy them ahead of Speedland. First of all, it's a better looking shoe. I think objectively it's a better looking shoe on the shelf which really does actually matter.
I love the durability story because it helps to offset the price point a little bit in terms of a dollars per mile approach combined with sustainability piece, I think works for them. A very well built out wholesale network.
Actually as a retailer looking to potentially buy into this if I were maybe too well built out, I mean they're already in REI, they're already on backcountry.com they're kind of already a little bit everywhere. So it's like, okay, how much competition am I going to be going up against here? But they are very much a full price model.
There's no, they don't even have a sign up discount which I. Which is also key. Yeah, no, it's just like rarity these days. Right.
You just like you want to, you know, you want to sign up for our emails and we'll let you know when a new product drops. That's it. Right? No sign up discount. There's no sales section on their site. They're not on Amazon.
So overall, you know, aside from maybe being a little bit too widely distributed, I think a pretty solid brand. I would give them, you know, Svealands a two. I'm giving these guys like a three and a half out of five.
Colin True
00:38:43.690 - 00:38:45.570
Yeah, the price probably be the big concern. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:45.570 - 00:38:48.250
If you're bringing it rarefied air. Yeah.
Colin True
00:38:48.890 - 00:40:15.850
I've been using their 002 model for a few months. That's the one I've been running around in. And they are currently my favorite trail running shoe.
I wore an ultra long peak guy for more than a decade. Big lone peak fan. I used the topo pursuit twos for a good chunk of last year. Great shoe, dabbled in Hokas as well.
And Norda kind of brings the best of all of those shoes. I feel like put into one. I put more than 350 miles on them. And most of the upper, I'm going to say most, I'll get to that in a second.
And the midsole have aged beautifully. They feel almost exactly the same as they did on day one. Out of the box. The uppers made. There's Dyneema in the upper. So it is like bomb proof.
The midsole is great. It feels basically the same. Has a Vibram outsole starting to wear a little thin in the typical spots where you would expect it.
So, you know, if they wanted to get to a thousand miles, the insole probably isn't going to make it. Also, the heel cup kind of like right at the top, like where your Achilles is on both shoes, it's worn out.
There's like a hole that has worn through in both spots on both of my shoes. So there are components that I feel like would last much longer while there are some that are already wearing out.
But I feel like those things can also probably be addressed in future iterations, just like different materials, whatever. But yeah, in terms of shoes, or if I wanted to buy a pair of shoes and if they truly will last longer, I love these things.
I'm going to give them a 4.2. I still think they need to do some things that improve some of those. The things I mentioned. At the same time, I would buy these with my own money.
I like them that much. So, Dave, brand positioning for Norda.
Producer Dave
00:40:15.850 - 00:42:28.950
For Norda. Well, the shoe of the North, I think is. Norda, I think is Norse for north. It's the arc' teryx of trail running. Right.
I mean, in terms of its stylized minimalism, it's fashionable running. I mean, they're still pretty literal, for sure, but there is a stylized element to it. Right. You can see their imagery is curated.
They do have some ugc, but for the most part their stuff has a stylized eye to it, even in its, quote, realism. They also have a very definable visual style to their photography. A little bit darker, a little bit kind of crushed black, colors more matte.
It becomes distinctive in its own self. Like, it does stand out just in the way that the art comes together. So I think that's.
And I think brands, a lot of brands, forget about the fact that you can use that type of kind of filter. That coloration of photography can be a visual marker as defining as logo integrity. Right?
And so it's just another way to do it, especially when you're talking about social feeds and. And things like that, or when you get, you know, you're paid and your little banner comes up and it's just up really quickly. Just, it's so.
Because everybody has a runner in it or everybody has some kind of fashionista standing in the woods, right? But like, so what does that.
What sets that off and maybe starts to create some repetitive, you know, kind of imprint that you start to then connect the brand to. So, but like I said, they're a little bit more stylized. I like that. I think it does stand out.
I think it marries really well with their product design and their design language. That, again, that silhouette on the wall is just nice.
It is, to me, one of the most distinctive, just from when you look at it, the way they've put the. The upper to the. To the midsole there, kind of fused it and it has, you know, great, great wall appeal. They do product shots very well.
I was going to say, you know, all of these brands do them well, right? But they, they definitely spend some time on their product shots. So I'm gonna. I'm going to go 3.5. 3.5.
Because again, it's super well done for what they're doing. They haven't gone into more conceptual storytelling yet, so it's still very literal, but it's nice. I mean, you got. You can't.
There's no way around it.
Colin True
00:42:29.750 - 00:43:42.660
So that gives them an 11.2 out of 15. So they're definitely ahead of Speedland. All right, last one. Kind of the. I mean, just this is, I think, a kind of impressive story. Mount to coast.
Right? So Mount to coast was conceived as a shoe brand for Ultra Runners in 2022. They just launched in the United States in April of 2024.
They're kind of becoming the brand Az Jour right now. Still very much on that, if, you know, you know, but rapidly gaining steam.
They also want to improve sustainability for running shoes and made news recently with the release of their H1 model, which uses a new foam in the midsole called CircleCell, which they say which they have seen lasts up to 600 miles and is made from organic waste. They have two trail running models right now. The aforementioned H1, which retails for $160 and the downright cheap in today's trail running world.
And the original T1, which retails for $180. And they also have a line of three different road shoes. And they were on the feet of 1.1% of the hard rock field. Again, I'm just. That.
That impresses the hell out of me a year after, you know, launch in the States. So, I mean. Oh, and excuse me, the Mount decoast, busy opening run specialty too.
Like, what do you like, what's going on on the retail front for Mount Da Coast?
Eoin Comerford
00:43:42.970 - 00:45:17.090
They're definitely creating buzz out there and that drives sell through.
I mean, as a retailer, you want a brand that people have heard about and that when they come into your store, they're asking about it and they want to buy it. Right. You don't have to sell them in on it. Their social game and creative, I think, is on point.
They already have 88,000 followers on Insta, for example. That would Compare it to 57,000 for Speedland and then 173,000 for Nordis. So Norda is obviously doing well.
But for a very new brand to have that kind of traction, I think it tells you a. When I look at distribution and pricing, I like what I see. They are limited to only specialty stores, which is great.
There's no rei, no backcountry, no Amazon. And they have a store locator prominently in the header of their site which says I support specialty retail is what that says, basically.
The other thing is they are priced at under $200, which is a much, much more approachable price point. You're hitting the sweet spot of the market at that price point versus the $300 fol.
That to me is like, yeah, I can sell some of these shoes and they're all full price. There's no, there's no sale anything anywhere as it relates to this.
And then just in terms of the shoes themselves, objectively, I think they're the best looking ones of the bunch. They've really done their homework from a design perspective. Lots of great feature call outs.
Just an interesting shoe at an accessible price point with increasing demand. To me, this one is the. Is the winner for the retailer and I give it a 4.5 out of 5.
Colin True
00:45:17.090 - 00:45:32.190
Oh, wow. All right. From a wear test perspective. And I think. I think my opinion here reflects a little bit of how young this brand is. Right.
So I got to try both the T1s and the H1s and I honestly can't believe that both of these shoes are made by the same company.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:32.270 - 00:45:32.670
Really.
Colin True
00:45:32.830 - 00:46:04.490
They're so wildly different from each other. The T1s I tried first and I loathed every second they were on my feet. The best thing I can say is that they were sort of like a Salomon, right?
With slightly better toe box in terms of how they felt. And the Vibram outsole performed as, as expected to me. The rest just felt like a total jun. I didn't like the fit.
I thought it just was an unpleasant, uncomfortable experience. Just on a three mile sort of like little hike jog that I did on the little mountain bay in my house.
I just was so excited to get them off my feet and put them back in the box they came from to, like, send a gear trade or something like that.
Producer Dave
00:46:05.290 - 00:46:05.690
Now.
Colin True
00:46:05.850 - 00:47:42.940
So that set the stage for the H1s. Like, well, now I got to try these things. Let's see. And I was kind of ready just to be like, what a sham mounted coast is. I got to give them ones.
The H1 was awesome, and it was easily my second favorite shoe that we're talking about today after the Nordas. Great fit. The midsole foam was super responsive.
I had a little bit of heel slippage, but I think that might get better as I wear them and kind of sweat in them.
I've only taken them out a couple of times, and given the price point, owing to what you just were talking about, it's the number one shoe that I would buy on this list. Even if I like the Nordis more, I don't like the Nordisk that much more that I would buy them ahead of the H1s.
All right, now the one note, I will say to MTC, and this goes a little bit about what you were saying about the boa. They have this lacing system where they have like two zip ties or on the.
On the T1s and a zip, kind of a zip tie system with a regular lace on the H1s. Like kind of a lower part of the top of your foot and then an upper part. You guys got to ditch that. Mount to coast.
It's confusing and just like Chacos or anything else. Anytime you need to put instructions on how to use your shoes in the box, it's a big miss. It's like, don't tell.
I don't need instructions on how to use shoes. You know what has worked for the better part? If you humans putting shoes on their feet. Laces. Just put laces in your shoe. The BOA makes more sense.
But aside from that, like, just the H1s are awesome. So I'm going to give. If I were just evaluating the T1, it'd be a 1 like a 1.0. Did not like those shoes at all. The H1s. I'm going to give a 3.9.
I do like the Nordis a little bit more, but again, I would buy these ahead of the Nordis just because they're, you know, 100. About $100 cheaper. Wow, Dave, you've been waiting.
Producer Dave
00:47:43.100 - 00:47:43.580
Wow.
Colin True
00:47:44.140 - 00:47:47.980
Well, mount to coast. The brand. That is also a phrase.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:48.220 - 00:47:50.540
Positional phrases. We know that Dave loves prep.
Producer Dave
00:47:50.620 - 00:48:00.780
That's right, we know. And like I said before, they're on, but with more letters. Right. I think that's the way I look at their, their branding and even their.
Colin True
00:48:00.780 - 00:48:01.900
Silhouettes of the coin.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:03.580 - 00:48:10.860
Do you think they, they, that they literally set out to say, okay, how do we basically create a new another on. You think that was part of the deal? No, I'm serious.
Producer Dave
00:48:11.100 - 00:48:32.320
They might and have just tripped over their words and all of a sudden ended up with more letters on the side of the shoe. I mean, I have to say, you know, it's visual. To me it's visual profile is the least interesting of the ones we've talked about. It's.
It looks like other shoes, which isn't a bad thing. It just, it, it just is less, less distinct. So they put their big.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:32.320 - 00:48:35.320
So like if ChatGPT designed a shoe, this would be it.
Producer Dave
00:48:35.640 - 00:49:00.320
Oh, it's not that generic. But if it said design me a premium ultra running shoe, you know, with advanced materials and make sure the cushioning is right.
Yeah, maybe it gets there. So they've solved that problem though, owen, by putting 18 letters across the side of the shoe as the name of their shoe. Right.
So it's like that's the, that's how you know it's a mount to coast shoe. It says it really big across the side.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:00.800 - 00:49:06.720
But no, look, see on was a preposition. They said we're gonna go one better. We're gonna be a prepositional phrase phrase.
Producer Dave
00:49:06.800 - 00:50:17.080
Right? That's right. So I think that's exactly right. But so look like brand wise though. It's just kind of what we just talked.
They are a no nonsense running approach that talks about their materials and they've got pictures of runners on roads, lonely roads and they have racers on race day and they have a great athlete crowd. This is a little more international than say even Speedlands, but they definitely are in the big races and show that and talk about it.
Their product photography is nice. It's really good.
It's not as elegant maybe as Norda's, but it is a premium display of product and they like to, you know, swoop in on the materials and everybody loves their floating shoes and theirs is a little brighter, a little less moody than say a Norda overall. And that's kind of to me like the on kind of comparison when you see that. Oh, they both, both feel very much of the same way.
But yeah, it is a literal brand and all of these share that in some degree. But, but well done. I mean again, it fits the product promise. So I think that's the most important when you feel it feels. Yeah, that feels right.
Colin True
00:50:17.080 - 00:50:33.480
I don't Know if anybody knows, are they the most well funded to get those prices down? Because I mean, I don't know.
I mean, I know like, okay, Nord is using Dyneema and stuff like that, but I have a feeling that the small brand lack of buying power is what's driving some of the higher price points on the first two. Why is Mount Dakos $100 cheaper?
Producer Dave
00:50:33.950 - 00:50:40.230
That is a good point. I mean, they were founded, you know, by a couple Chinese entrepreneurs out of Hong Kong.
Colin True
00:50:40.230 - 00:50:43.190
So maybe are they like, are they a factory owned brand basically?
Producer Dave
00:50:43.190 - 00:51:20.510
I don't think that's the case.
I think of the two owners, one I think came from E Commerce and so had that experience building up and the other came from material development from footwear and that's clear with their, with their stuff. Right.
So I think you put these two sides and you know, perhaps they did have just different contacts that allowed them to, to create these things a little more economically.
Because you're right, the hundred dollars to me is a big explainer of why all these top tier, premium kind of design engineering stories are coming out. Why did this one with all of the letters on the side of its shoe break through?
Eoin Comerford
00:51:20.590 - 00:51:37.640
I mean, it all strikes me as extremely well put together and very polished and just well thought out. Maybe just not having have it just mightn't have this quite the soul, I guess of the Nordas or even the Speedlands for that matter. But it's.
You know what I mean?
Producer Dave
00:51:37.640 - 00:52:56.840
Yeah, no, I totally get you. And that to me comes part of that kind of like having that visual look.
But if you look at some of their video storytelling, it's very literal, very honest though. I mean it's their athletes, you know, unboxing their shoes and talking about why they use them.
And so I mean, I think realism obviously super important to all of these brands in terms of showing the earnestness that goes into it and as a tactic. But that's right now they're all kind of standing on the same platforms and that's where I would just. Montacost feels the most neutral of the brands.
And I use neutral just more in a sense that it's product display. Here's some runners, but they're all super. Speedland has a definite engineering look and feel that's a bit different. Norda is much more stylish.
Right. It has, I'm playing into that. So they, you can see there, Colin, we were talking about where they. Who you're going to take on the wall.
There is a positioning, there is some white space between them. Not a lot, but there is some white space between them.
And so if you have the ability on your shelf to carry more than one of these because you think you have a consumer that can absorb the price point and is into some higher performance, I can see where these might appeal to different slivers of the, of the consumer base.
Colin True
00:52:57.400 - 00:52:58.840
So what's your score for Mount Dakota?
Producer Dave
00:52:58.840 - 00:53:02.760
I'm gonna give Mount Dakos a. I'm gonna give them a three.
Colin True
00:53:04.040 - 00:53:04.640
Just three.
Producer Dave
00:53:04.640 - 00:53:05.640
Just straight three.
Colin True
00:53:06.520 - 00:53:11.560
Okay, that makes them 11.4. They are winners.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:11.560 - 00:53:12.040
Wow.
Colin True
00:53:12.440 - 00:53:13.600
Is that right? Is that right?
Producer Dave
00:53:13.600 - 00:53:16.360
Owen's basic silhouette appreciation tipped the scale.
Colin True
00:53:16.520 - 00:53:17.000
Wow.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:17.160 - 00:53:17.720
That's right.
Producer Dave
00:53:18.040 - 00:53:25.420
Dang dang retailer. Pick the safe one. I see. See how that goes.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:26.220 - 00:53:35.460
I just, you know, you want the, it's all about the Benjamins. I want product that's going to move and I want something at a price point that's going to hit well.
Colin True
00:53:35.460 - 00:54:39.680
And their retail strategy might be the best. We had questions about the other two.
I think you're, if you're going purely on product, I mean, I think, you know, the Speedland might be the most interesting just given how like, hey, like, you know, screw convention. We're making a performance shoe.
I like your Archetics comparison on, on Norda, Dave, but yeah, if we're talking at the end of the day, like who do we think?
I think it bears out if you were going to bet money if we're going back to buy and sell last week, who would you buy here would probably be Mount Dakos if nothing else for the, for the, for the financial price points. But I mean, I guess the last thing I want to ask you guys is on the kind of like I was alluding to at the beginning here.
I mean we could do this again with brands like Notice satisfy Normal Kylos Fugue. I mean there's a ton these brands are out there and they kind of of one like constant thing on the rock fight since we started was expanding is hard.
New brands is, are hard. It's hard to kind of break into these in categories with these entrenched incumbents and everything else.
And here we are talking about these three brands and how they're doing it. What is different about trail running? Is it just truly the how running has opened up as a category and, and, and, and, and coinciding with a trend.
What do you guys think?
Eoin Comerford
00:54:40.160 - 00:55:05.950
Just a lot easier to be a new and emerging brand in a, a large and growing category that's drawing a lot of eyeballs. It just is. Versus like oh, I'm going to be the, you know, the next tent brand. It's like, oh my gosh. Wow.
Tents have been around for, you know, for centuries and there's a lot of tent brands out there that have already established that ground. So yeah, it's just much easier to break in in these sorts of emerging areas.
Producer Dave
00:55:06.350 - 00:56:02.100
And I would say too, we're also probably experiencing a generational shift changing of the guard. You know, footwear has always had a high barrier to entry. Right. Not easy to get things made. You have to have expertise on how to do that.
Well, now we have a full generation of grown up in this industry that didn't exist in the same way, say when Gen X was growing up in this. Right.
And so you've got a lot of folks that have gone to school for this, that have spent careers in this and now are turning their attention to creating their own visions for it and they can get it done. So I think that also helps the renaissance of this new footwear wave.
And then to your point, Owen, I mean running, it's just easier to break in, in that kind of growing category like that. But I do think there's a creative and a knowledge base that has just kind of waiting for the turn to unleash a new generation.
Eoin Comerford
00:56:03.060 - 00:56:43.900
I mean, I think about, let's say snowboarding, when it first really kind of popped and all of the snowboarding brands that came out and each had their own niche and area and what have you. Okay. And then over time what happened? You had a number of them that just disappeared.
You had others that were snapped up by the Burtons of the world and you had this sort of collapsing back to a bit of a core and now you've got some, you know, some, some smaller brands, but it's, it's basically back to that. We'll see that in trail running, you know, over the next five, 10 years. Right.
Some of the brands will go away, other brands will be acquired by the big guys as like their premium play. So yeah, I think it'll be very still an interest and dynamic category for a number of years.
Producer Dave
00:56:43.900 - 00:56:54.220
And then we can report on the maturation of the gravel segment and how it is having its own massive influx beyond the beginning phrases, phases.
Eoin Comerford
00:56:54.780 - 00:56:55.900
I don't think so.
Colin True
00:56:56.380 - 00:57:04.980
All right, well what do you guys think? So mount to coast wins. If we, I mentioned it was other brands, we can do this.
I have gotten a couple of pairs of some of those other brands we mentioned. Do we want to do this again?
Producer Dave
00:57:04.980 - 00:57:10.430
We would have to call it. This is just a sliver of what's. What's out there.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:10.830 - 00:57:26.670
If you own a trail running brand and are feeling pissed off for not being included in the top trail running emerging brand episode, reach out to us myrockflight Gmail.com. let's hear from you and why you should be included in the next one.
Producer Dave
00:57:26.670 - 00:57:28.990
Of these things and address your complaints to Colin.
Colin True
00:57:34.920 - 00:57:51.360
All right, guys, time for the parting shot brought to you by Garage grown Gear. I guess they do a lot of parting shots over at the garage grown Gear factory or whatever is they do. What do they do at Garage Growing gear?
Oh, they're a retailer. That's right. They make all sorts. They host cottage industries, all sorts of stuff. They grow garage gear.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:51.360 - 00:57:51.680
That's right.
Colin True
00:57:51.680 - 00:57:53.800
From seedlings. It's great.
Producer Dave
00:57:53.880 - 00:58:01.240
I want to see that. I want to see Lloyd, like looking over a plant. Right. That's growing gear. That would be fantastic.
Colin True
00:58:02.170 - 00:58:38.500
Well, my parting shot is also trail running adjacent. And I guess we'll have a moratorium on trail running talk for at least a couple of weeks.
But it's a follow up on my sell of trail running last week during our buy sell episode.
Because since then I've seen even more posts on places like LinkedIn about how sponsored running athletes deserve to be paid so much more, how trail running is going to grow beyond the outdoors.
And it made me think about other times when these types of conversations were held, when a new sport or activity was seemingly on the precipice of breaking outside of the outdoor box, and how it never really gets as big as many people think that it will. Or if it does, it's because it's of an individual or a moment. But the interest in that thing eventually wanes.
Producer Dave
00:58:38.740 - 00:58:49.220
Dave. Go, Colin. I am doubling down on freestyle kayaking. Okay. I am telling you, the rodeo, it's going to be big. There's going to be crowds. You got it.
Colin True
00:58:49.300 - 00:58:51.700
Where's the epicenter? What's the town?
Producer Dave
00:58:51.780 - 00:59:03.190
Wherever there's a river, wherever there's a creek, wherever there's a swimming pool not being used, you'll find us. You'll find us. That's spinning around and around and around and around.
Colin True
00:59:03.910 - 01:00:32.670
Well, freestyle kayaking aside, the best example I could come up with was Lance Armstrong.
Right now, the under 35s out there who are championing trail running probably view Lance as nothing more than a disgraced liar who destroyed lives to reach the pinnacle of his sport, American dream. And there's some truth in that. All right. I'm not going to gloss over the reality, but what that does gloss over is the absolute rocket ship.
Following Lance and his Tour de France victories from 99 to 2005, and the impact he had on the cycling world in general. Road cycling, spandex kits, shaved legs, all of it became, if not cool, then at least accepted by the mainstream.
And the guy was in Nike ads, showing up at charity events, and we were all riding our road bikes to support him and be like him with our yellow Livestrong bracelets on, the Tour de France became appointment viewing for people, for many people who had never so much as turned a crank before in their life. Now, since then, road cycling has kind of returned to what it was. A niche in a niche.
Cycling has continued to grow, but like most everything else, it's more on the recreational side that has grown the most.
So regardless of how it ended for Lance, it still took someone like him, a generational guy doing extraordinary things, to break road cycling into the mainstream, even for a little bit. And that was in a mostly pre Internet world where the monoculture still reigned supreme. These days, it's a niche world.
So it's great that many people out there are finding trail running and that this particular niche is growing. But I wouldn't expect to see Jim Walmsley showing up in super bowl ads or doing cameos in big Hollywood movies in the near or distant future.
And that is my parting shot.
Producer Dave
01:00:32.670 - 01:00:33.550
He can be in our ad.
Colin True
01:00:33.710 - 01:00:35.070
Sure. Come on. On, Jim.
Eoin Comerford
01:00:35.070 - 01:00:37.790
We got you our super bowl ad, I think.
Colin True
01:00:37.790 - 01:00:38.710
Oh, we should run, right?
Eoin Comerford
01:00:38.710 - 01:00:43.950
Yeah. We're gonna have the alternate to the alternate. Alternate halftime show, right?
Producer Dave
01:00:44.590 - 01:00:45.070
Yes.
Colin True
01:00:45.070 - 01:00:46.830
Okay, so they're rebelling against Bad Bunny.
Producer Dave
01:00:46.830 - 01:00:47.150
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
01:00:47.150 - 01:00:47.470
Yes.
Colin True
01:00:47.470 - 01:00:50.170
And then we're gonna rebel against the Rebe, correct?
Producer Dave
01:00:50.170 - 01:00:50.650
That's right.
Chris DeMakes
01:00:50.890 - 01:00:51.450
Okay.
Producer Dave
01:00:51.690 - 01:00:58.730
Actually, the rebellion of the rebellions. Rebellion probably fits us right there. And we can have trail runners and.
Colin True
01:00:58.730 - 01:01:03.130
You'Ll find us in our whitewater kayaks out spinning rodeo circles.
Eoin Comerford
01:01:03.130 - 01:01:03.690
That's right.
Producer Dave
01:01:03.850 - 01:01:09.610
Some high speed coming back. High speed, slow mo like, come on. It'll look good with the trail running brands.
Colin True
01:01:10.330 - 01:01:14.010
It's coming back in quotes like, producer Dave, is that one of our merch? That's right.
Eoin Comerford
01:01:14.650 - 01:01:19.920
No, I think it's just a T shirt that says professional freestyle kayaker. And that's just.
Producer Dave
01:01:20.320 - 01:01:21.120
There you go.
Colin True
01:01:22.240 - 01:01:23.920
If you say it is so. It is so.
Eoin Comerford
01:01:23.920 - 01:01:24.560
That's right.
Colin True
01:01:25.280 - 01:01:49.450
All right, that's the show for today. We want your emails. Want to hear what you think about your favorite, your favorite trail running shoes.
Send them to myrockflightmail.com the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LLC. Today's episode produced by Rodeo Kayaker producer Dave Art direction provided by Sarah Genser. For Owen Comerford, I'm Colin Schwartz. True.
Thank you for listening. Here to take us out is Krista Megs with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.
Producer Dave
01:01:49.850 - 01:01:52.250
I always wanted to be a rodeo kayaker, I guess.
Chris DeMakes
01:01:52.250 - 01:02:52.670
Rock fight.
Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music the latest movie reviews Ideas that aim for the head this is where we speak our truth this is where we speak our truth Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight, Rock fight welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Rock flight Rock fight, Rock fight Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight.