Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) it's time for Outdoor Industry headlines!
Colin kicks off the show with a recap of the Outdoor Market Alliance Media Show that highlighted an event that filled a longstanding industry need as well as uncovered a problem that persists in the Outdoor Industry.
Then Producer Dave joins Colin to run through the following topics:
Colin's summertime check in during More with Thermore (12:34)
VF sells Supreme to EssilorLuxottica. What will happen to one of the most popular brands in active apparel history? (15:15)
Lebron James invested in Canyon Bicycles in 2022 and is now featured in a new Canyon campaign (22:40)
Boa claims performance increases in cycling shoes in a new press release. But what are they actually trying to do? (27:26)
Head to www.rockfight.co and sign up for News From the Front, Rock Fight's weekly newsletter!
Please follow and subscribe to THE ROCK FIGHT and give us a 5 star rating and written review wherever you get your podcasts.
Listen to and follow Gear & Beer! The newest show on the Rock Fight Podcast Network.
Have a question or comment for a future mailbag episode? Send it to myrockfight@gmail.com or send a message on Instagram or Threads.
Choose Your Player
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Captivate
Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin Tru, and today on the show we're going to do our thing running through three of the more notable outdoor headlines to come out of our community and industry over the past week. And we're going to do that after I talk about my trip to Denver to attend the Outdoor Market Alliances media show and how that trip pinpointed some of the bullshit that I think we deal with in the outdoor industry. But before we get to that, a few housekeeping items. Please follow and rate the rock fight wherever you're listening on any podcast app. We love seeing that five star rating and it really helps the show. Please hit that up and if you're an Apple Podcast listener, please leave us a written review and if you do, send a screenshot of your review to My rock fight@gmail.com so we can send you a rock fight or gear in beer sticker.
(00:51):
And that's also exactly where you can reach out to the show. Just for fun, if you want to send us some feedback, you want to send us some questions, send it to my rock fight@gmail.com. Our social media, Hey, you hit us up. Instagram's kind of what we post the most over at the handle there is rock fight.co, so check that out and rock fight.co, that's also our URL, which if you go to rock fight.co on the old website there, you can sign up for our newsletter news from the front comes out every Sunday. Click join the mailing list on the website. Alright, let's start the show.
(01:26):
Last week I gave you my final thoughts on outdoor trade shows for summer 24, but there was one more event that was held at the Outdoor Market Alliance this past week in Denver that was not a trade show but a media show. I got to attend it this week with Producer Dave, so I want to give you guys a rundown of what went on there. Now the Outdoor Market Alliance is a showroom outside of Denver where the top independent sales agencies representing brands from the outdoor industry have spaces where they can host retailers. If you're not that familiar with our industry or if you're just more of an outdoor consumer and you're learning about the industry, it's pretty typical that outdoor brands hire independent sales agencies and representatives to sell in their products to retailers, independent meaning they don't work directly for the brand. These are small businesses made up of a tight team of reps across a particular region.
(02:14):
They represent multiple brands and make their money based off commissions from selling the products from these brands to the outdoor shops that we all love to go to. The Outdoor Market Alliance is a collective of these small independent businesses in the Rockies who were able to put their competitive differences aside and create a permanent showroom that shows off pretty much every relevant brand in the outdoor space. And I'm actually going to bring on Steve Copeland. He was one of these independent reps and the president of the Outdoor Market Alliance onto the rock fight in the near future to talk about it. We actually tried to do it a few months ago. We had some audio issues and I'm actually really glad that that didn't work out because now having seen the facility and the actual collective of brands and agencies there, it'll be a much better conversation I think with Steve.
(03:02):
So stay tuned for that. That'll be in the next few weeks. But this week was the media show at the Outdoor Market Alliance where a couple of years ago some smart people saw the fact that pretty much every outdoor brand was on display in one building in what is effectively in the middle of the country. Sorry, Denver. I know you think of yourself as being in the mountains, but you're kind of in the middle. It's easy to get to from pretty much anywhere in the country and they figured out it would be a great setting for PR agencies to have their own event where they could meet with media and talk about what's new and happening in the outdoor industry with journalists who cover the outdoor space. So producer Dave and I were there. We traveled to Denver and much like everything else we've experienced this summer, it was another great event.
(03:41):
Another example of a smart event with real purpose that addressed a need for a segment of the outdoor industry. And with that in mind, here's sort of where the bullshit comes into play because while I was there I noticed a brand that a friend of mine works for who is part of a sales group that has space at the Outdoor Market Alliance and was not participating at the show. So I shot my buddy a text and asked him why, and he responded that the company he works for didn't think they needed to go then they didn't want to spend the money required to exhibit, which apparently was in that kind of 11 to 13 K range. I didn't verify that amount with the media show director, but for the sake of argument, let's just go with that number for a second and break this down because on just the basics side of things, previous to the show, to the media show at the Outdoor Market Alliance, the biggest opportunity to have back to meetings like this with the majority of the outdoor media world, well it used to be an outdoor retailer.
(04:41):
Media and PR folks were as busy at that show during its peak as sales and product folks were outside of that. PR and media have historically been lumped into other existing trade shows or PR agencies also. They typically host their own events in place like New York City and they've done that forever. But by having almost every relevant agency in one place to have a media focused event showed the importance of messaging in our space and shined a light on a segment of our business that a lot of people tend to take for granted. Now, to kind of keep breaking this down, the smallest booth I ever paid for, well, not me personally, the brand I worked for, paid for at Outdoor Retailer, and this was probably in the 20 12, 20 13 range. So when the show was pretty big, was in that 25 to 30 K range and that was for a very basic small space, very little room for meetings.
(05:32):
And the bigger brands who exhibited at that time would show up with multiple rooms, oftentimes multiple floors in their booth and for their meetings and would spend literally hundreds of thousands of dollars for their booth space. And also like we've talked about ad nauseum over the past two months, the main two options for brands to attend other shows over the past months were GOA Connect where all of the big and relevant brands show up, but where media have much of any presence and the current version of Outdoor retailer where those big brands don't show up at least as of now and media is invited. So they're not really great options for the kind of meetings we had this week at the Outdoor Market Alliance. And so let's call this for 12 k, according to what I heard from my friend, this brand could have had similar exposure and meetings that it would've had at peak or only for way less money and without the distractions of what a big show includes because a big show is a lot of things.
(06:31):
This was a specific event for media only for way less money. And the kicker to all this guys is that this brand's PR agency, they were already there for other brands and the beauty of the OMA media show is it's low overhead. There's no booths to set up. It's low maintenance, it's as close to a plug and play event that you're going to find in the outdoor industry. I bring up all this to say that there's been kind of nothing but complaining about events and trade shows since I came into the industry over 20 years ago that has sort of reached this new level over the past six years or so. It's one reason why we talk about it so much on the rock fight and I spoke to at least half a dozen people this past week who didn't go to or this summer who told me that that show wouldn't be worth their time.
(07:12):
And it just shows me that we all have these things that we want, we all want to be right about it, but very few of us are really willing to try something new, which is kind of funny because this industry is built on the back of solving problems. The best outdoor brands have a story to tell, not because a story to tell, not because they make something that looks or feels good, but because their products create a way for enthusiasts to have a better or successful experience outside in the face of dangerous conditions or natural obstacles. And this event was that level of innovation for the media part of our space. It exists because a group of sales agencies, competitors by nature decided that their businesses would all benefit from a certain level of collaboration. So innovation led to more innovation in the way that now the media takes part of this.
(08:01):
And this is very much the outdoor way of things. And for you, dear listener, this little event is going to pay off because gear and beer is coming back in August with an expanded tasting menu at the Outdoor Market Alliance Media event. We started working towards appearances from folks from Gear Junkie Nemo, black Diamond, as well as super interesting and fresh journalistic voices and a ton of other brands as well. So it was a worthy time. I think I wanted to shine a light on this for other folks who maybe were on the fence about attending something like this in the future. It's definitely worth your time and it's simple and relatively inexpensive. I want to bring in producer Dave because he was there with me and has a huge background in the creative side of things and marketing. Dave, what did you think of the Outdoor Market Alliance media show?
Producer Dave (08:47):
Well, it was my first OMA media show and yeah, my first thought was really, why haven't we been doing this sooner? It really just took the showroom aspect that we normally apply to, like you say, New York where you have concentrated media, but now just kind of flipped it around, let's put it in a concentrated sales room or showroom aspect of multiple brands. It was very kind of heavy on the outdoor media titles. You're not going to get a lot of lifestyle titles there, but that was actually part of the thing that was cool about it because we got down to business, it was concentrated on products, it was concentrated on stories about the brand in the outdoor space, so not only do you have the PR folks going through the line, which is already set up because there's a showroom there, you're also getting the occasional salesperson would be there because it's their showroom and now all of a sudden you're engaged in a much deeper conversation about the product. They're able to bring context to it. I thought it was one of the best kind of media days that I've been a part of, and again, I love the showroom aspect even in New York. That's a great way to do it, but it's certainly a lot more money. You got a lot more kind of t and e aspect to it where here they really,
Colin (10:09):
Yeah, and it's usually one agency. If you have one agency, you rent a showroom
Producer Dave (10:13):
In New York there we've also done kind of multiple, we've had that kind of concept where you rent out a single room, multiple agency PR agencies get together, but now you're still going, you're still setting up your space. You're limited to a much smaller footprint because of the cost and just the time to do that. Were here. These were semi-permanent showrooms already in place, so there was none of that, and so you got to see a lot more of the line. I really liked being able to go, I mean it's speed dating for story ideas and so you got to go from one brand, you got to hear about it, you sent down, you get to it, you could table some topics if you needed to, but then half hours up and boom, you're going to the next one. And so really also seeing the context. I think too, it was also, it's not so much everyone's just kind of showing off everything. There was a chance to have embargoed discussions about items that aren't ready to be seen yet,
Colin (11:07):
And we did. We signed an NDA
Producer Dave (11:08):
For of 'em. There you go. And even the way the showrooms are built, it's like you can have your privacy. You don't have to show off everything and keep that competitive aspect to it.
Colin (11:20):
Yeah. Then there's just the intangibles of what everybody talks about with events of just being there, seeing people. Honestly, I heard multiple people from different agencies talk about how they really valued being there with their competitors basically. They didn't refer to 'em as competitors, but that's kind of what they are. It was just like, it was really interesting being there with all these folks who maybe they've crossed paths over emails or they took out a client that somebody else used to have or whatever, and they felt it was really beneficial to kind of be there in the same room and say hello and meet each other. Just only good things come from that. Look, the
Producer Dave (11:54):
Industry is really a collection of neighborhoods. We all have our own little neighborhoods that we see each other at, and that's, we know that's continually brought up what's missing with the lack of a real centralized experience. This is a way to cobble some of those together. I could see this, the sales aspect is what it is. The media now is a piece I could see. I know that we were talking about content creators and how to bring other neighborhoods of the industry together in this kind of smaller, regionalized way, and this seems like a perfect, bringing in the showroom as a central hub makes a lot of sense.
Colin (12:32):
Yeah. Well, thanks again for the organizers are bringing us out and was excited to be there and definitely excited to attend again. I think they did a great job. So let's move into the next thing, which of course is our weekly segment more with Thor
(12:50):
Themore, the original ingredient brand who has been providing insulation solutions from mid Italy since 1972. Just kind of want to give an update on my goals for summer 2024. I think I had, the big one I really wanted to focus on the most was surfing twice a week, which I was on a nice run of doing until this past week when I had to fly to Denver for the Outdoor Market Alliance. So I'm going to just wipe this week away. This week didn't happen in terms of my outdoor plans for the summer, and I'm going to go based off of the week before last when I did get in the water two times, which is what I was planning on doing, and now I'm going to pick it up again this week to get back. So I'm still on track. I'm not saying I was not derailed by being in Denver this past week is what I'm trying to say here.
(13:36):
But all that being said, we were only in Colorado for a couple of days. It was warm when we got there and the next morning I got up to go get coffee. It was a little chilly out, that alpine kind of high elevation air going on and the sun goes away, the temperature drops. You know what I could have used? I could have used a shack, could have used a shack. It kind of like the steel sky crest, which is a versatile Shae it with a versatility coming from 60 grand, the more eco down, which is a hundred percent post-consumer recycled eco down, and it's the sustainable alternative to feathers. And during this time of year when you might be high up in the hills where the temperature might drop or you have mornings or evenings like I did, where you need some versatility, you still want to look good, it's a good looking garment, the five star steel sky crest with themore. It's your best option guys. You should get out there and check it out. If you want to check it out, you head over to steel.com and check out the sky crest or you head themore.com to learn about themore. And don't forget, make sure you get out there and do more in the outdoors this summer with Themore.
Producer Dave (14:36):
So Colin, I do want to add, does the outdoor patio at the brewery count as an outdoor experience?
Colin (14:43):
I mean, I feel like we should have done something a little more outdoorsy than sit around in a showroom all day long to kind of earn that outdoor experience. But yeah, I'm going to call it. Sure, yeah, we're in Golden Colorado.
Producer Dave (14:53):
Excuse me. You just weren't paying attention then because outdoor in the patio, not only did we have the taco truck, which I think is also the basis of any outdoor experience, there was the trailhead with the baby goats and hiking with baby goats is just kind of next level. But we
Colin (15:09):
Missed the baby goats. We didn't get to go do the baby
Producer Dave (15:11):
Goats. We didn't have the shack it either, but the beer was good.
Colin (15:15):
Alright, let's get into our headlines for today. The first one is per SGB and other various outlets, VF has come to terms with eyewear conglomerate, is it Essilor? Am I saying that right? Essilor Luxottica to acquire apparel maker Supreme for 1.5 billion. Supreme was acquired by VF in 2020 for more than $2 billion. Now, VF, who also owns the North Face, Timberland, smart Wol Vans, Dickies among many others has hit a bit of a rough patch of late and financial analysts have been anticipating the selling off of at least one brand, if not several brands as a response. Now this is not a financial podcast, so I'm not going to wade into those waters about the terms of the deal and everything without a business analyst here to guide me. But I am kind of curious about what the future holds for Supreme as a brand. So I went to their website to check it out and Supreme started in 1994 and per their website, they started as the home of New York City skate culture and their core demo being neighborhood kids, New York skaters and local artists.
(16:15):
The last engagement I personally had with Supreme was more than 10 years ago when we were chasing them, the bipolar tech fabric. And they at the time, and maybe they still are, but they were the 100% the coolest apparel brand in the active apparel market. And if you go look at Supreme focused threads on Reddit, it's clear the brand is still popular, but it's definitely more widespread. There's been a little bit of a little, I don't think the VF acquisition was really received entirely well by their fans, but still they're still very popular and even though it's available more places than it's ever been before, it honestly though feels weird to me to think of Supreme as a billion dollar brand when I think of other brands that are valued at over a billion dollars. So I'm curious, where does Supreme go from here? I mean, Dave, from a creative point of view or even just a marketing point of view, a brand point of view, where does Supreme go from here? What are they now compared to what they used to be?
Producer Dave (17:08):
Well, I would even direct this a little bit. What does this mean from an outdoor point of view? And I'm going to say not much. I mean, look, it was always a kind of weird fit when VF bought them. They certainly bought high. I think the streetwear industry definitely had a WTF moment of what's going on here. Now with the sale, there's more hand ringing for sure. Now it's just the second time in a short amount of time. In fact, one of the posts from Highsnobiety was actually a headstone with Supreme carved into it
Colin (17:50):
Wasn't VF acquired? No
Producer Dave (17:52):
Over this new sale, new one. Look, the new sale again, the new owner too, isn't really a natural owner in the same way you're talking about primarily an eyewear brand and not only just an eyewear brand, I mean the Raybans, Oakleys, things like that. Most of the fashion brands that they're involved in are licensing. So they're really taking cues from the master brands in terms of how they do that. So it remains to be seen right now. They're going to say they're going to keep their hands off and allow Supreme to be Supreme, and I do believe that, but at the same time, what does that really mean for this brand? You could see the leverage at least in the portfolio of VF in terms of, I mean they certainly,
Colin (18:40):
That's what had a bunch of say mean VF is they had
Producer Dave (18:42):
A bunch of collaboration partners and so it just really kind of made sense to do that and they could really help each other. I think the bigger question is really not even about Supreme in the sense that vf, so what does this mean for vf? They are trying to bring down debt. I know it's not a finance conversation, but that's a huge factor to why they're letting this brand go. Vans could be next. Again, it's not another natural play in terms of this outdoor portfolio and they've had their challenges.
Colin (19:12):
Timberland though, you point out the outdoor Timberland has been a rumor. It's been rumored to be punted by the, although
Producer Dave (19:18):
Timberland makes more sense than the other two, just in the sense at least it has this authentic side that could be, I mean, that seems to be part of the natural path of Timberland every so many years. Somebody gets the bright idea to reengage its core authenticity as an outdoor brand and they go after it, have some success and then let it go again. So maybe that's what we're just in the natural rhythm. Also, VF is letting go of their pack business. Again, it's not a core backpack type of that we'd think of outdoor. It's definitely more of a back to school lifestyle with Jansport East Pack and Kipling and things like that. You can really see them starting to focus and maybe what that means is a greater focus and concentration on their outdoor business. They have some pretty great brands when it comes to the outdoor itself and some that are still small and really haven't realized what they could be. You see North Face here at the top and Timberland off to that side. But there's a lot of growth that they could find perhaps if they start to focus again
Colin (20:18):
On the Supreme brand front though, it's an interesting point you make because you say what you want about VF or now you've got the big corporate overlords acquiring your beloved Supreme a few years ago. But it does make sense. I mean, you're right from the outdoor perspective, it's a little weird, but at least they know about making apparel. They know about, it's not that far of a stretch and to the idea that it goes to this eyewear maker and yeah, everybody says the right thing at the beginning. Like, oh, we don't let them do their thing, but where does that go? And you and I talked a little bit about this week. I mean, is this the road to Supreme becoming like a Marmite where they just are mishandled for the next three acquisitions, three owners, you know what I mean? Before it Supreme is like champion and you start seeing supreme sweatshirts in Walmart and stuff like that. I mean, I don't think that would've seemed, that would never happen a few years ago. Now it's like I could see a path to that happened to that happening.
Producer Dave (21:14):
Well, there's no reason to bring up Marmot and color this whole conversation, Colin, but
Colin (21:20):
That's pretty
Producer Dave (21:21):
Harsh. That's pretty harsh, but
Colin (21:23):
No, but example of a brand that had real clout in a space at one time who now has largely been left off to the side
Producer Dave (21:29):
That in streetwear Supreme's clout is probably the similar stickiness as our trade show discussions, right? Ever since it's purchased, I mean they're 2 billion. I saw in one article that they've opened more retail in the last couple years than they have in 20 years. So that alone is going to start to dilute this special sense. I mean, they're making massive moves into China and to Korea, again, places that you would expect, but at the same time, when you have a business built on absolute scarcity, you're going to run into this at some point. And that's the nature of it, I think. But again, I think it's really, for us, it's just more about where does this fit into our ecosystem? And it doesn't, I don't think you need to buy yourself a CoLab partner necessarily. I think if you make a great product and have an authentic voice that you're telling your story with, people are going to want to partner with you. Real respect's real
Colin (22:36):
Well. We'll see where it all ends up. But so our next story, NBA superstar, LeBron James invested in Canyon Bicycles in 2022, and then this past week a new campaign from Canyon was released featuring LeBron campaign was dubbed Find Your Freedom and a supporting video shows LeBron riding bikes and narrating about the freedom we find by riding bikes. Many disciplines of cycling are featured in the video from mountain biking to road and gravel and trials riding. I heard some other podcasters actually commenting on the story as being a miss because there was no signature LeBron James Canyon product here and maybe that's coming down the road, but I don't really think that's what this is about. This isn't about a brand sponsoring an athlete. This is about LeBron who's been a vocal supporter of cycling for a long time and just building a platform. He really seems to care about riding bikes. I remember him talking about riding bikes when he was on the heat over 10 years ago. So there won increased participation and I think this is a huge win for cycling. And I'd say the outdoor community in general, and this is a perfect example I think of why representation matters and could matter even more when you have the, I'm going to call him the fourth best basketball player of all time. We can get a new, I have above him on the list growing
Producer Dave (23:45):
Rocks.
Colin (23:47):
Well, but not just being sponsored, but investing in a bike brand. I think it'll pay off and attracting new faces of the sport. So Dave, there are just sponsored athletes whose faces get used to give a face to a brand, but this seems to be something else entirely. I mean, kind of what was your impressions watching the video, seeing where this all goes? Look,
Producer Dave (24:05):
I think you're spot on this. This is not an endorsement play. This is a business opportunity. I would be really interested in a LeBron James gravel bike though. I think that there's just something in that, but yeah, who knows? Maybe it does. Maybe they move downstream with it and try to open up the funnel to that as well.
Colin (24:28):
But of all industries, the bike industry, which is just kind of a piece of shit industry, he's not doing this to make money. He doesn't need to be sponsored. He's made hundreds of, oh, without a doubt, he's probably a billionaire at this point. You know what I mean? Without a
Producer Dave (24:40):
Doubt. Without a doubt. No, I think it's cool. And like I said, if it brings some attention to cycling, great. Even better. Like you said, it's a tough industry, but it's a necessary one and we really want to see a healthy bike industry.
Colin (24:58):
It reminds me a little of the Nike Tiger Woods ads from back in the day and kind of the increase in diversity that golf saw as a result and seeing even just the video, seeing LeBron on a bike and thinking that that has gotten have some impact with some black kid out there or whatever. You mean just going to see something like this and be like, that looks sick and LeBron James is doing it. I feel like this is really going to have an impact.
Producer Dave (25:23):
I hope so. We'll see where he goes. I mean, like I said, it might be a boardroom play versus an endorsement.
Colin (25:31):
What boardroom, who cares about Canyon, but it's
Producer Dave (25:35):
Boardroom, meaning he's looking beyond his basketball career. He's a businessman. I think he's got a lot of investments in a lot of different businesses and I think if he's an enthusiast in cycling and he knows it, I mean, look, I have to say, you told me an N NBA A player was going to invest in a cycling brand Canyon would not be the first one on that list that I would think that they would go to. So to me that shows a little bit of insider knowledge of what he's looking for and what kind of makes sense. This is totally the place to be in that kind of world. I think that makes a lot of sense.
Colin (26:07):
Yeah, well they're basically a D two C. They're a D two C brand, so I think that's kind. That was probably a little calculated too. They don't have to rely on bike shops and all that kind of stuff. It's probably a big reason why this is who he went after.
Producer Dave (26:17):
Well, it's also, it's new school. This is the next generation of cycling brands. I could also see him look, if this is an endorsement play, you're going to go to one of the legacy brands that does have wholesale distribution where currently his name could add value to that kind of customer, and that's clearly not what he's doing here. This has definitely got more of a performance angle
Colin (26:42):
To it. Alright, give me your top four NBA players of all time.
Producer Dave (26:45):
Oh, come
Colin (26:45):
On, come on. Tell me why LeBron's not number four,
Producer Dave (26:48):
Because you got to make room for Michael Jordan. You got to make room
Colin (26:54):
Jordan's number one. I got Kareem two. All
Producer Dave (26:57):
Right.
Colin (26:58):
Bill Russell three and then LeBron. See
Producer Dave (27:00):
Anything that doesn't have trash talking in Larry Bird. I'm tough with
Colin (27:04):
You got to put magic even over. You have to put magic
Producer Dave (27:06):
Over Larry. I
Colin (27:07):
Think he's more ships. I think so. His
Producer Dave (27:10):
Trash talk is just not even on the same level. And then look, if we're really talking about this, I'm going to just put Bill Walton up there strictly for the
Colin (27:18):
Deadhead inclusion Blazers Hoer.
Producer Dave (27:21):
He won as many titles with the Celtics as he beat Portland. He did with the Portland, but he attended over a thousand Grateful Dead shows.
Colin (27:29):
Well, okay, sorry. Grateful Dead.
Producer Dave (27:34):
Yes. Yes.
Colin (27:36):
Alright. The last story for today is actually from a press release ingredient brand boa, the Shoelace replacement system you find on shoes in cycling, snow athletic and outdoor sports. Put out a press release this week claiming that the BOA system on cycling shoes specifically enhances performance, citing an 11% gain in peak power output. And look, this is a press release that's going to paint BOA in the best light possible, and I don't really have any reason to doubt what they're claiming, but I did want to take the opportunity to just talk about BOA for a second. This past week at the OMA show we were just chatting about, we met with a PR team for Lost Sportiva who has a running shoe with a BOA system on it. And I just asked, how is BOA being received for running products? And the person we spoke to said it does okay.
(28:19):
It has a much wider acceptance in categories like cycling and snow. I think that makes sense. A lot of cycling shoes already use a variety of closure systems and snowboarding boots specifically will benefit from a system like boa. But what's the curious what the actual goal of BOA is? Are they trying to take over footwear and mass? Did they see a world where BOA is on every shoes? It seems like frankly the rare occasion where something slightly better but totally more complicated is kind of finding its audience kind of I kind of beef with the better mousetrap that's only making something slightly better, but incredibly more complicated. So as a casual outdoor enthusiast, Dave, what do you think when you see a BOA on a pair of shoes?
Producer Dave (29:03):
Oh, right now I see shoes that aren't for me, but like you said, I mean from a cycling totally makes sense from a snow sport. Yeah, I get that. Are they really that much more complicated or is it just more of a talking point? Sure. I mean, look, we know how laces work. That's great. I like the idea of it. I think that's intrigued by this idea of something simple dialed and just provides you great tight fit or whatever that fit. Are we still on the beginning? Is this still the beginning of the journey when it talks about, you said slight increment. Okay, but
Colin (29:45):
Over a decade in
Producer Dave (29:46):
Yeah, but hey someday. Someday we'll get it right.
Colin (29:52):
I've had one experience with boa, actually, I guess it's over a decade. They were on a pair of Timberlands that we made and that one is the late aughts, but they broke pretty quickly. I'm assuming the product's much better now than
Producer Dave (30:04):
It was the cord. Is that what breaks or does it The dial?
Colin (30:06):
No, the dial. Say my daughter who's now 18, she was a toddler and we were on a plastic slide at a playground and I banged my shoe on the side of the slide and it just
Producer Dave (30:17):
Splinter. So you're saying that the park was too much of a performance environment for
Colin (30:22):
On a pair of a trail running shoes where you encounter rocks and logs and all sorts of stuff. I
Producer Dave (30:26):
See. I'm afraid that the cord's going to cut your foot off or something, some kind of razor wire that would just
Colin (30:31):
Be, well, you just unlocked a new fear for me. I didn't even think of
Producer Dave (30:33):
That. See, you got to be, of
Colin (30:35):
Course if you're then Jason Bourne, you can rip your laces off and choke out a guy, right? See,
Producer Dave (30:39):
See, that's a self-defense mechanism. Okay, I'm in.
Colin (30:41):
I mean, but again, this was a long time ago. I'm sure it's better. But if you follow folks like Adam Jabber over at the Out Collective, he's also a bike and ski tech in addition to all the great content they make, but it does seem like they break and require repair. I think it's a low rate, but it's still a rate, but it's also when it breaks, where are you? You're typically not a place where you're like, I'll just roll into the shop and have my BOA fixed. And so it can actually become, I think, a real problem. But if you have a shoelace, well you can just kind of tie an knot and there you go. You'll get by until you get back to your car. So I don't know, this just still seems to me like a lot of complication for very little upside, especially when it comes to running shoes and things like that.
Producer Dave (31:22):
Well, I think you've just laid down the groundwork. I'd love to talk to somebody from BOA about the specifics and nuances
Colin (31:32):
Of that. I'll just tell you how great it is. We should bring Jabber on and see what Jabber has to say.
Producer Dave (31:34):
Either way, either way. Or a sneak handler, one of the two, but
Colin (31:40):
Or Jabber and a bowa person at the same time, let, we'll just step back and let 'em rock fight. It'll be great
Producer Dave (31:45):
In, I think one of those hazy IPAs would be a great way to take that in. Well,
Colin (31:50):
That's all we got today, but I did want to mention that it is both national Junk Food Day and National Ice Cream Day. So in honor of both these days, I wanted to give you my desert island all time. Top five worst things to eat that are awesome list. So I'm going to have number five. I put ruffles because I have a real soft spot for ruffles. I love a salty fried potato, as you'll find out in a couple other spots when I bring in another salty fried potato ruffles though, just feel like when you're eating them, you're like, oh, this isn't even a chip. This is processed potato product that's been made crunchy and dowed with salt and it's great
Producer Dave (32:23):
Love. Do you like just the salt or because they do have the cheddars, you could douse that in some kind of synthetic orange cheddar substance as well. I
Colin (32:32):
Just like the basic chip. I think it's like, yep, it's like crunchy salt. That's sort of potato eat number four, soft pretzel with a beer and cheese dipping sauce. And you go to the pub and they bring out the soft pretzel like the size of your head and it's just super kind of crunchy and chew on the outside and just soft in the middle. And then they get you that sauce. It's like beer and cheese. What combination? Where's the health value in that? It's not, it's beer and cheese, but oh, it's so good. And the Bavarian are happy that you're supporting their
Producer Dave (33:01):
Culture. Again, I take your issue with you classifying this as a junk food. This is another one of those staples. This might be more of a winter staple, but the soft pretzel is culinary perfection if done right, a little nice little.
Colin (33:17):
I do
Producer Dave (33:17):
Agree that nice little hard shell
Colin (33:19):
Show me. You break it open show who says, where does it say on? They're saying, Hey, for muscle growth or for your heart health, eat the cheese and beer doused soft pretzel. It's not on that list. There's no nutritional value
Producer Dave (33:33):
There. It's German soul food. Come on.
Colin (33:37):
Well that's true. Alright, I had to include a candy and I'm not a huge candy guy. I try not to eat a lot of candy, but when I do, it's going to be number three, which I feel this should be the universally accepted best candy of all time, which is the Reese's Peanut Butter cup and to all you fruity candy people out there, you're wrong. Chocolate candy. If you make a list of the best candy, you got at least eight to nine spots of chocolatey stuff before a fruit thing can enter the list. I have real reservations that let someone who puts Fruity Candy first on their list. You're a fruity candy guy, aren't you?
Producer Dave (34:07):
I think Gummy Avengers should unite
Colin (34:10):
Number two. Another salty potato with five guys fries. Sometimes we'll get five guys just for the fries. I think
Producer Dave (34:15):
We should have just given you a salt lick and let you go with that.
Colin (34:20):
Alright, my last one, again, I try really hard to avoid sweets and dessert. It's just because I feel like I just try to, because I have a real sweet tooth that I almost want to just really save it. I threw the alpha in there. It's my favorite dessert. It says ice cream and espresso. Again, I'm sure you can make the argument that this is way better than anything else on my list, but it's the thing I can resist the least probably on the list. And that's why I put it at number one. No notes.
Producer Dave (34:42):
No notes. I mean look at coffee and ice cream again. Solid.
Colin (34:46):
But Dave, what's my most egregious miss here on the list? Well,
Producer Dave (34:48):
I think I've pretty covered it. Well, I think you're by leaving out the gummy category, which also you could play into the sour world, it really does show a lack of creativity and just kind of synapses that really come together with that. It really keeps you going. I don't know if it fits in here, but jerky of some kind might fit. I don't know if that's considered a junk food. It could be. I think
Colin (35:11):
That's relatively healthy snack, isn't it? Don't people eat jerky?
Producer Dave (35:14):
This sort of, I dunno. All I know is it's like $25 now for three ounces of it. There's no way I can even consider
Colin (35:21):
Bri the sodium counts like off the charge.
Producer Dave (35:22):
It is. It is. It's the staple of the gas station Quickie Mart. But
Colin (35:29):
On the gummy side, do you like Swedish fish or are you like No, it's got to be more of like a sour patch kid.
Producer Dave (35:34):
Those are fine. Sour patch kid. I'm a classic haribou. You got to go for just the classic. I was going to say, you're all about the German snack.
Colin (35:42):
You're give this guy a soft pretzel with some and he's going to be in good shape forever.
Producer Dave (35:46):
Right. Little d dal vices. You got
Colin (35:49):
Itel vices. All right man. Well we can wrap it up there. The rock fights in production to rock fight LLC. Our producer today, as you heard him, was David Kasad. Art Direction provided by Sarah Genser. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. He's back once again, ladies and gentlemen to take us out. It's Krista Makes, he's going to sing the rock fight fight song right now, and we'll see you next time. Rock fighters Rockside
Chris DeMakes (36:11):
Rock fight. We go into the bike where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities. Their big bikes are about topics that we find interesting. Black by culture. Music, the latest movie reviews, ideas for the head. This is where we speak truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock back through.