When The Trail Turns Tragic, Inspiration At Badwater & The 'Backpacking With A Gun' Mailbag!
- colin7931
- Jul 23
- 47 min read
Today Colin is joined by outdoor journalist Shawnté Salabert who is off of the trail and back on The Rock Fight to run through the following topics:
It's been a deadly month on the trail as tragedy has hit the Sierra and the Whites. Separate from both of these incidents, Colin & Shawnté reflect on how it is sometimes hard to leave an objective behind. (14:05)
Inspiration in the heat! 80 year old Bob Becker finishes Badwater. What an absolute bad ass. (29:32)
Instagram commenters have weighed in on the topic of carrying a gun in the backcountry. They're pretty much what you expect. (35:46)
The Parting Shot! Colin reflects on the loss of Malcom Jamal Warner while Shawnté reflects on the loss of the climate as we know it. (44:18)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:34.710
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and today she's back.
Chante Salibair returned to the show fully enlightened after nearly a month on the jmt. But before we get to that, come back to the Rock Fight this Friday for the return of producer Dave, who will be back.
They're serving his one game suspension for performance enhancing drugs and who's going to be giving us a deep dive into into something creative. And hey, did you miss Monday's episode of the Rock Fight?
You know, the one that Dave missed because he was serving as one gate suspension for using performance enhancing drugs?
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:35.030 - 00:00:36.470
Well, how about I miss a lot?
Colin True
00:00:38.630 - 00:01:01.820
How about Tuesday's newest open container? Hey, did you know that we will be launching a new show next month? We teased it in our newsletter this week.
So if you didn't get the newsletter, you didn't see what it was. The takeover of outdoor podcasts here on the Rock Fight Podcast network is happening. Make sure you are following and listening to all of our shows.
All right, before we get to Shantae, you just heard it already. But before we get there, stick around. We'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:01.820 - 00:01:05.660
Welcome to the Rat Fight. Rat fight. Rat fight.
Colin True
00:01:07.980 - 00:02:28.930
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An hour later, that knowledge helped a customer pick the perfect pair and add a helmet too. Learning on the go, selling with certainty, adding value. Yup, he's a shout flow hero.
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Chris DeMakes
00:02:29.090 - 00:02:38.110
Be a shop hero and Devil's here to stay. Shop floor hero Salvu is the way.
Colin True
00:02:41.710 - 00:03:21.610
Hey, everyone, before we keep going here, I need to tell you about our teammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, if you run an outdoor, an endurance or an active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR and digital marketing belay partner or drinking buddy than Darby. They can help your business reach new heights, and they might just keep you from falling on your ass.
Since we started working with Darby, more and more people. And this is an important point now. Guys, I want you to hear me on this.
More and more people have reached out to us here at the Rock fight because of that messaging. Look, guys, I'm dead serious. If they can help us, they can help anybody. Hit them up@darbycommunications.com. do it today. All right. Shantay's back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:21.610 - 00:03:23.370
I'm back. For better or worse.
Colin True
00:03:23.370 - 00:03:23.930
You are.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:24.650 - 00:03:25.050
No.
Colin True
00:03:25.210 - 00:03:29.680
And you had. You had listener encounters in a way on the trail that sounds.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:30.070 - 00:03:32.790
That sounds deep. What do you. Wait, what are you.
Colin True
00:03:32.790 - 00:03:36.910
You said someone Venmo'd you to see the listeners. Venmo'd you money to buy you a beer.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:36.910 - 00:03:55.830
I did. I got Venmo'd $10 for a cold beverage, which is what I asked for. So I really feel like if you ask and it will come back.
And so for anyone who didn't get a chance to buy me a beverage on trail, that Venmo is Shantae Dash Salibare. Send me any amount. Really, truly any amount. That's unlimited. Open ended.
Colin True
00:03:56.610 - 00:03:59.530
You know, it's Wednesday night. I could really use a drink, so if you just want to drop me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:59.530 - 00:04:22.810
10 bucks, I mean, I want to stay hydrated. I was out there for a couple weeks. It was. I was out there through a heat wave. I fell into a creek waist deep.
Like, I slid down a snow embankment and unplanned glissade. You know, you do things out there, and I feel like I just got to get myself back on track. Colin. So perhaps there are some listeners who want to.
I just need some, like, sugar listeners. That's all. Just a few. A handful.
Colin True
00:04:22.810 - 00:04:26.130
Some sugar listeners. Oh, my God. Hashtag sugar listeners. I love that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:26.440 - 00:04:26.760
Yeah.
Colin True
00:04:28.040 - 00:04:29.480
So it was good, though. Good trip.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:29.720 - 00:05:16.300
It was great. You know, it started a little rocky, literally, Figuratively. But no, it ended up being. It ended up being really great out there. It was.
Didn't have any. This is in the plus column. One. One rainstorm. The entire time. It was. The wildflowers were out. It was.
There was a lot of solitude, more than I'M used to in the Sierra because it can be sort of a high traffic place. But I'm not mad at it. I met some really interesting people out there. I've got a new BFF who turns out lives one neighborhood over.
Gave her a ride home after the trail. Even though we hiked in completely opposite directions. I had to take three buses to get back to my car in Yosemite.
I get off my bus, who is standing there but this woman. So we solidified it then. Soul sisters from the trail. Trail.
Colin True
00:05:16.300 - 00:05:20.700
Amazing magic. What do you mean? It was a. There was a heat wave. Did I miss a heat wave in California?
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:20.700 - 00:05:25.500
It was a heat wave. Yeah, it was hot. I think. I think we'll get to that. We'll talk about heat some more today.
Colin True
00:05:26.330 - 00:05:28.370
Oh, okay. You're gonna save that for later. That makes sense.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:28.370 - 00:05:28.690
Yeah.
Colin True
00:05:28.690 - 00:05:37.650
Yeah. No, heat definitely comes up later.
I'm not sure if you heard Monday's episode of the Rock Fight, but Owen was sort of standing on Pooh Corner or in Pooh Corner. I don't know how he.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:37.650 - 00:05:42.730
I feel like Owen wouldn't want to be there, though. Colin, did you force him into the corner? Nobody puts Owen in a corner.
Colin True
00:05:43.290 - 00:05:47.130
I think he's slowly. You're. You're in his head. I think you're just, like, wearing him down.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:47.370 - 00:06:17.510
Owen would have loved. In fact, the second to last night, so I camped. So to going southbound on the JMT Pneumo Pollo, you can exit a couple different ways.
The traditional way, go up to Mount Whitney. You go over trail crest and end at Whitney Portal. And I camped at Crabtree Meadows that night. And there is an outdoor privy there.
And it's just basically a pit toilet surrounded by three very short walls, no roof. And it was a very. Oh, natural. It was like. It was very bougie for the trail.
Colin True
00:06:17.590 - 00:06:20.950
So it's kind of like a perma groover. You sent me a picture of it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:20.950 - 00:06:34.130
Kind of like, just right. Yeah. I think the walls come down every season so they don't get completely annihilated by the snow. But, yeah, it was a good. I've heard legends of it.
I've just never stopped that high up in Crabtree, so it was a real delight.
Colin True
00:06:34.450 - 00:06:50.130
Well, let's talk about your gear. MVPs. What was the MVP of this trip? If you could pick one. Let's do three. But like three, but also three, but 17. Yeah, let's go three.
Well, I'm figuring it was a pretty short segment. If we just said 1. Be over real quick. So let's go 3. What's your top three gear items from this trip?
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:50.130 - 00:07:09.890
Right. I go pretty minimalist out there and I do. The bulk of what I carry is actually stuff I need as a book writers.
So I've got like camera gear and all that crap. It's just pretty heavy. But a. I'm going to come back to. I think I might have mentioned it earlier.
I've told you about it, but I took the LEM switchback sandals out there as my water.
Colin True
00:07:09.970 - 00:07:19.010
We're about to intro a LEM segment. We can't. Well, yeah, it's the next thing. They sponsor the next segment. This is going to feel like. Like this is not a paid endorsement.
This part of the show is not a paid.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:19.010 - 00:07:48.350
This is legitimate. Yeah. You don't get extra advertising. You could just beep out lems and just be like, beep, beep sandals. They were great. Beep, beep.
Sand sandals were so wonderful. No, I, I honestly, I loved them.
I ended up wearing them for quite a while on several of the days where I had a lot of water crossings and they were comfortable. They drained really well. They kind of have like a little embossed pattern in the sole and it. It drained out the footbed pretty well. So.
No, loved them. I got a lot of compliments on them. So.
Colin True
00:07:48.430 - 00:07:48.910
Nice.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:49.070 - 00:07:50.350
Yeah, that was awesome.
Colin True
00:07:50.590 - 00:07:53.150
Was not expecting that to be the first one you mentioned. All right, go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:53.150 - 00:07:58.230
I wasn't either. It's not, you know, I. And it's. It's a luxury item to have a bonus sandal on trails.
Colin True
00:07:58.230 - 00:08:01.970
We have to charge them of like 5 dol for their contract because of that. That was not a paid.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:01.970 - 00:08:49.140
Yeah, it really wasn't. It's just. That's just what I loved. Oh, gosh, let me think. I switched out this year and for my base layers, so I have Alpha direct fleece.
I have a Senshi shirt that I normally take out and I've got Farpoint pants. I swapped out my shirt. I took a chance and went with a lighter Alpha direct by Sam Bob. Loved it. I also got a ton of compliments on that.
It kept me just, I swear, just as warm. It was a 60 instead of a 90. So. Different. Yeah, different. Lighter weight, lighter weave, but just as warm, just as soft and cozy.
The color was very cute. Kind of a mint, but I got tons of compliments.
And a girl came up to me and put my hood up and then took a picture of the back where the tag was so she could buy one when she got home.
Colin True
00:08:49.140 - 00:08:51.980
Did she speak to you first or did this just happen like she did?
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:51.980 - 00:08:53.820
It was kind of one fluid moment though, like.
Colin True
00:08:53.820 - 00:08:56.720
But just stand there for a second. I'm going to.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:57.040 - 00:09:11.640
Yeah, you can molest you on the chat. You forget how to do social interactions, so. Yeah, no, those are great. And you know, I guess as far as a third item, that's a great question.
What would I say? I mean, honestly, I.
Colin True
00:09:11.640 - 00:09:14.000
You're going to say your bidet. I know that's what you're going to say.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:14.640 - 00:09:27.470
I did take a different bidet this time. I took a minimal. Real minimalist one. Yeah, it was not the Holy Hiker. Not the Kulo. It was. I think it's called Igneous is the brand.
They switched their name. You can buy it on Garage grown gear.
Colin True
00:09:27.550 - 00:09:28.910
Oh, you can buy it on ggg.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:29.710 - 00:09:43.710
Nope. And it just twists on to the little bottle and so. Yeah, that was great. I. I ended up showing other people how to use it. I didn't ask.
I didn't want to show other people how to use it. I mean, I didn't show them while I was using it.
Colin True
00:09:43.790 - 00:09:47.630
Hold on. Let me just wait till I got one brew in here and then I'll show you how this thing works.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:47.870 - 00:10:05.530
A reenactment. It was a reenactment. But yeah, I mean, altogether at this point, my kit is pretty tight, so I don't have a lot of substitutions in there.
But yeah, those were some of my favorite things. And yeah, it was a good trip and now I'm just readjusting to concrete and technology.
Colin True
00:10:06.970 - 00:10:12.330
All right, so we'll at least Sandbob got a little shit out Main zone. Sandbob. So good for them.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:13.130 - 00:10:14.810
Which is in Maine's own setup.
Colin True
00:10:14.810 - 00:10:15.530
Yeah, they're from Maine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:15.610 - 00:10:31.510
They are, yeah, they're part of that. It was nice. It switched back. I love.
I've seen it at or too, where all those brands from Maine kind of do a little joyful collective thing, which is lovely to see. Usually good to go is in there. Maybe they're too big for the britches now and they can't be part of the little guys.
Colin True
00:10:32.230 - 00:10:35.910
Anything else about the trip that we should talk about before we get into our topics for today?
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:36.150 - 00:10:40.870
Do you want to know a very special message I got while I was out there? Colin? Of course it wasn't you.
Colin True
00:10:40.870 - 00:10:41.990
Was it from a marmot?
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:42.070 - 00:10:46.630
It was not. Oh, the sheer amount of beautiful marmots I saw. Delightful.
Colin True
00:10:46.630 - 00:10:50.550
Did I just breeze by a shot that I forgot to wish you a happy birthday while you were on trail?
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:53.330 - 00:11:27.310
Zing. Nope. Nope. Yeah, I did have a nice birthday out there.
I actually had met some hikers the night before and camped with them and they remembered in the morning and they wished me a happy birthday. I spent my birthday morning on Forester Pass, the highest pass on the pct. And my favorite flower was in bloom, Sky Pilot.
And it's a beautiful fuzzy green leaves and beautiful purple flowers that are super fresh. I think I forgot how good that flower smells. It smelled like you were in a garden, a British estate garden, but at 13,200ft, you know?
Colin True
00:11:28.030 - 00:11:30.590
But what was the. What was the message you got?
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:30.590 - 00:12:08.250
Message. Oh, all right. All right, Colin. So I open my Instagram when I get back into service and there is a message about last year's hiking shirt.
So I love hiking in sun hoodies. I use a ridge marino. It's pretty lightweight. Wool hood, thumb holes, the whole shebang.
And so last year's sun hoodie I'd had for a couple years and I finally kind of had to retire it because it's pretty mangy at this point. So I had a different one out on the trail.
But I returned to service and saw that I had not only multiple comments on a photo of me wearing last year's sun hoodie, but also private message from somebody who wanted to buy it because of the, quote, huge pit stains.
Colin True
00:12:10.330 - 00:12:17.050
So we're. We're just assuming it's the. This is someone who's into stinky things.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:17.210 - 00:12:19.050
You know what? There's something out there for everyone.
Colin True
00:12:19.770 - 00:12:23.050
I have to look because it's Marino. So it probably doesn't smell that bad.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:23.130 - 00:12:36.870
It does smell bad. Like, I don't. I don't know. I mean, I. I haven't responded.
I might have deleted the creepy comments on the picture, but the message, the private message is still there. Offering to buy my huge pit stained sun shirt.
Colin True
00:12:37.030 - 00:12:39.670
What should Shantay sell this thing for? Weigh in in the comments.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:40.310 - 00:12:46.790
Yeah, right. Is it my rock fight@gmail.com and. Or make your own offer. This could be like an ebay situation.
Colin True
00:12:46.870 - 00:12:53.870
Should we donate the proceeds to all the sexy creeps out there who want Shantae's gross stuff? You know what?
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:53.870 - 00:13:02.410
Should we donate a lot? I can sell you then if that's the case.
But Colin, you're gonna have to act as my intermediary because I just can't have these people knowing where I'm at.
Colin True
00:13:02.410 - 00:13:04.450
No, no, no. Yeah, you don't want them to find you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:04.770 - 00:13:06.770
You could be my, my stinky stuff agent.
Colin True
00:13:07.250 - 00:13:10.250
That's great. That'll be the. The Rock Fight onlyfans.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:10.250 - 00:13:11.970
We'll be a 20% cut.
Colin True
00:13:11.970 - 00:13:21.530
That's right. We'll put on, we'll have a little curated experience, the Shantae experience. Actually, every Rock Fight personality should have something like.
Here's the producer, Dave, you know, I.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:21.530 - 00:13:22.450
Want to know, wait, what do you.
Colin True
00:13:22.450 - 00:13:25.580
Think Owens would be like a button down plaid shirt?
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:25.980 - 00:13:28.460
Yeah. Very clean though. Like the opposite.
Colin True
00:13:28.460 - 00:13:30.140
It's like it's never been dirty once.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:30.700 - 00:13:31.900
It's pristine.
Colin True
00:13:33.260 - 00:13:37.340
He's gonna be so mad. What about Schnitzbod? Schnitzspawn would give you a run for his money. Probably for stinky stuff.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:37.980 - 00:13:41.740
Oh, maybe. But I feel like it's somehow more. More wholesome coming from Doug.
Colin True
00:13:41.900 - 00:13:44.260
Of course. Because he's the most wholesome person at Rockfight.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:44.260 - 00:13:44.860
He really is.
Colin True
00:13:44.860 - 00:13:48.300
Yeah. All right, well, we're happy to have you back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:48.540 - 00:13:50.380
Thanks, man. Me, I'm happy to be back.
Colin True
00:13:50.380 - 00:14:01.160
We filled in, we had, we had a couple interviews. Emily Holland filled in for Oh, I Love Em. Yeah, that was a fun episode. We, we shot all over the Tour de France. That was a good time. So it was great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:02.200 - 00:14:02.840
Wonderful.
Colin True
00:14:04.680 - 00:14:13.560
All right, today's opening shot is presented, as we said, by Lem's Footwear. Not related to the endorsement that they just got from Shantae. Completely not related.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:13.720 - 00:14:17.360
Completely pure. This was a pure non commercialized endorsement.
Colin True
00:14:17.360 - 00:15:00.530
I just gave Lem's Footwear, maker of the 100% vegan and the 100% comfortable Primal Zen. That's a good shoe. You should check that out.
All right, well, we're having a good time here, but let's bring it down a notch because we're having way too much fun because July has been kind of a deadly month on the trail. If you look around the country, we have two stories to cover on this front.
The first being the case of 61 year old Harris Levinson, a Washingtonian who fell 100ft into the north fork of Lone Peak, Lone Pine Creek in the Eastern Sierra. And experienced hiker Levinson was only 2 miles into a planned through hike of the JMT. This happened while you were out there.
Actually, when the fell occurred, you said you went right by this area. I mean, is this like a really technical area?
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:01.570 - 00:16:26.470
Well, yeah. And the thing is, let's get this straight.
Which I think if you're not familiar with the trail and a lot of the people writing about this incident aren't, it's not that he wasn't on the jmt. The JMT actually runs from Yosemite Valley to the summit of Mount Whitney. And that's kind of the end game. You have to decide where to go from there.
So he was on what's not. He wasn't even on a first class trail. You know, first class. When you talk about hiking and things like that, it's stuff you could just walk on.
It's a maintained trail. He was on the Mountaineers route.
So the north fork of Lone Pine Creek, that quote trail, which you can get a permit for, is known as the Mountaineers route for Mount Whitney. It's kind of a technical alternative to the main trail.
And the Mountaineers route requires some route finding, some scrambling, some climbing, depending on the route you choose to get to the summit. And he was reportedly, you know, I saw this news when I came into service during my final resupply. It just broke my heart.
He was reportedly found beneath this area known as the E Ledges. They're these kind of notoriously exposed granite ledges, A little slopey, a little narrow.
And in navigating those ledges you have to kind of know the route so you don't get cliffed out. And people have absolutely met their end over there. There's been rockfall. Last year there was a rockfall incident.
Um, but yeah, I walked past the turnoff for that route as I was wrapping up my own hike and I thought about him, you know, just heartbreaking.
Colin True
00:16:26.550 - 00:16:32.070
What was he. Do we know if he was intentionally trying to. Was that part of his trip? Was it. Was he trying to access the jmt?
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:32.550 - 00:18:43.110
We don't know his trip was his trip intention was to hike the jmt. So what's not clear to me is did he get. And this is something that I've thought about with this is like, all right, so we don't exactly know.
It hasn't been reported whether or not he actually had a north Fork permit. Like did he intentionally do that? Did he think, okay, I'm going to do this alternate way because I can't get a main trail permit?
Whitney permits are very competitive. There's a lottery every year that you enter over the course of, you know, essentially a month.
And people are constantly on the Facebook group saying like, oh, does anybody have a spot in their permit? I just want to go with.
And you know, people get skunked all the time on these permits because they're pretty, you know, you've got the tallest peak in the continental U.S. you know, and the little or 48. And it becomes a marquee thing.
And it made me think about this idea that we get, you know, very Lured by name trails and named peaks and this and that. And people will often sort of, and I'm not saying this is the case with Mr. Levinson, like, just heartbreaking.
I'm not going to, you know, put any conjecture out there, but quite often you do see stories of people who sort of get in over their heads because they have their heart set on this thing, because it's a thing they're supposed to do and they're supposed to do it in this way. Start at point A, start at point B. Don't skimp it. Like, don't skip an inch of it. I've got to do it as it is.
And it's, you know, it's one of those things that sometimes we get tunnel vision. When you think of that, it's like bucket list tunnel vision.
And, you know, it's essentially the same mechanism as summit fever, I'd say it's that same idea. Like you just have this outcome in your mind and instead of thinking about being in the present, you're thinking about the outcome.
Like, I've got to do this thing. I will do whatever it takes to get there.
And people get that way with the jmt, people get that way with the pct, which, with, you know, a lot of different objectives in the mountains. And it just, it just makes me think about it.
I mean, I hope people take to heart this idea that any of these things, bucket list goals are just these kind of made up things that we decide we want to do because someone else said they were cool. Like someone's like, yeah, you're going to climb these peaks.
And check off this list that I created, that's an arbitrary list of peaks that people should hike in Southern California or something like that.
Colin True
00:18:43.270 - 00:18:43.630
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:43.630 - 00:19:14.210
And on the plus side, it's nice to have goals. Like, it's a great thing, kind of maybe gets you motivated.
People start exercising and taking care of their body bodies because they want to do these things.
But when it becomes, you know, when you start occluding common sense and you start taking unnecessary risks just to check something off a list that I think that is our ego coming through rather than, you know, something a little deeper. So I don't know.
And I think of this, like, I just, my heart goes out to that man and his family and his friends and it seems like he was a beloved person and.
Colin True
00:19:14.210 - 00:19:16.850
Yeah. Experienced outdoorsman, I mean, Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:17.090 - 00:19:19.330
Yeah. So it's, I mean, accidents happen. Right.
Colin True
00:19:19.610 - 00:21:00.460
But just I gotta, I wonder, there must be some research on this out there and if anybody listening this As a source, I'd love to look into it because exactly what you're saying is kind of what I was thinking too. I mean, probably the first person I've heard kind of breaks with tradition of how people approach us in the outdoors. It might be Ed Veasters, right?
His whole, like, getting to the top's optional, getting down is mandatory. And that was at a time when getting to the top wasn't really optional. It was like, you know, you get to the top by all means possible.
I remember him talking about how his last attempt on Annapurna, which was the last 8,000 meter peak that he checked off.
He was kind of thinking like, if I don't get this one, maybe this doesn't happen because that's such a hard peak to climb and the conditions have to be right and all those kinds of things. I mean, I just remember when I was living in New Hampshire and I was hiking with some folks who, we had a goal.
We were trying to get all the 4,000 footers in New Hampshire in winter. And we had one hike where we had a particularly headstrong person in our little crew that we would go out with.
And we had someone who was just joining us for their first hike hike who didn't have waterproof boots on. And it wasn't like it was fine. The hike we were doing would have been fine.
But he, the new person, early in the hike punched through some ice and soaked his foot and it was like, well, all right, well I guess we're gonna go to, you know, go to Jackson and get a beer and have a burger today instead of, you know, get to the summit of this mountain. And the headstrong guy was pissed. He's like, no, he'll be fine. We gotta keep going. And it's like, are you serious right now?
It's like 15 degrees outside and his foot is wet. No, we're leaving.
And it's just the people get into this, this mindset, it's, it's, this is where, you know, can the out the outdoors become competitive, right? It's like, it's like it is a sport. It's like, well, it's an activity. You're not going to win at peak bagging.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:00.780 - 00:22:12.260
No, no. And the mountain doesn't give a.
Like I think about this all the time when people talk about I'm going to conquer that mountain and language, I hate it. And I think a lot of people use it really unconsciously.
Like I don't think a lot of people are thinking like, but I'm Going to go beat that mountain to submission. But I think about an incident like actually the first time I did hike up Whitney, I was with three friends and one of the.
We had a rule, we had the Ed visters rule. You know, getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory.
Here's the steps we're going to take to keep ourselves in check and look out for each other.
So we were in pairs, looking out, communicating and we got up trail crest, everyone did a check in and by the time we got to the summit, one of the people in our group wasn't feeling great and decided to go down with their partner. So by the time the other two us got down and met up with them at Whitney Portal at the trailhead, that person wanted to sit in my car.
They weren't feeling great and they came out a couple minutes later and they were just gray purple lips saying something wasn't right. Ended up taking them to the hospital immediately.
They had pulmonary edema and had been coughing blood the last two miles to the summit and didn't tell anybody. And it's because they didn't want to.
Colin True
00:22:12.260 - 00:22:16.460
Ruin and they didn't want to ruin everybody's good time and they wanted to get the summit all, all the above probably.
Shawnté Salabert
00:22:16.460 - 00:22:53.020
It was like all the things swimming in your. Plus you're not thinking straight at that point.
I mean just having been up at high, you know, up in that region just the other day, you know, you get up there and you really are moving more slowly and your brain is moving a little more slowly if you're not properly acclimatized especially. But right, yeah, it just, it's all of that stuff. You know, I really suggest that people.
I talked about this a lot when I used to teach backcountry skills is think about your motivations a little deeper than just checklists. Like what is it actually about? What are you hoping to do for yourself? What are you hoping to gain out there?
What kind of experience do you want to have? Not just what do you want to check off a list, go a little deeper.
Colin True
00:22:53.260 - 00:23:56.400
Well that leads to kind of our next story here. So. Right. Not long after Mr. Levinson was discovered, another death in the mountains occurred. This time on the other side of the lower 48.
Because last week 79 year old William Davis of Jacksonville, Florida died when he fell on New Hampshire's Mount Washington. So Davis had taken up the famed cog railway to the summit and then took some time apparently to kind of explore around the peak.
Apparently there were no plans to go hiking once they got up there but he decided to kind of check things out.
He got lost, called for help, was able to get a ranger on the phone and then that call ended abruptly and his body was later found about 400ft off trail. I think it was in the alpine garden area of the kind of summit area not too far from Tuckerman Ravine.
And I think this is back to when the hubris starts to play into this. I mean this is just another unpleasant reminder. It doesn't take much for bad things to happen in seemingly safe places.
I mean even the first one, Mr. Levinson there on the JMT or on the Mountaineers round, he sounds like he was an experienced person. Sometimes things just go sideways and if you're forcing the issue, you're just kind of increasing the opportunity for those things to go bad.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:56.880 - 00:24:23.420
Right. I mean, I guess I'd ask this a. This is heartbreaking. I hadn't heard about this when I was on the trail.
I mean the story about Mr. Levinson made the news because you know, or made the rounds on trail because it was a place that a lot of us were going to be in the area at some point or people had already been there. I mean I'd ask you, Colin, like you just said, this is a reminder that, that it doesn't take much for bad things to happen in seemingly safe places.
Like what does that mean to you in this context, that idea of seemingly safe?
Colin True
00:24:23.420 - 00:25:26.270
It's a good point because the two things, the wild difference is that the mountaineers route known for its exposure. And even if this gentleman was qualified, something can happen when you are in an exposed situation.
The thing about Mount Washington, the reason why it's regarded as such a dangerous mountain, I mean obviously there's the weather, it is exposed, it is above tree, lots of, you know, it's only 6,200ft. So you're not, you know, you're not developing pulmonary edema typically. But you know, this gentleman took the cog railway up, right? This was a.
You got it. It was a nice day by all accounts.
It was mild, the wind was low, it's the middle of summer and if you've ever been up there, it's a wonderful place to be on a nice day. You know, they took the train up and I think that probably you get that sense of security that you're, you know, I am in a controlled environment.
And then now, I mean if you've ever been up in the White Mountains, it, they, it's, they call it the rock pile. I mean these are massive boulders Huge. Just like, it's not a lot of stable ground.
If you go off trail, there are lots of places you can fall and really hurt yourself. And so I wonder if there was potentially a false sense of security here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:26.430 - 00:26:08.490
Well, I mean, it makes me think about how we talk about the national parks sometimes in the sort of quote, Disneyfication, you know, in these places, national parks, even state parks, known outdoor places that have become probably even more popular since the advent of, you know, the Internet and social media. But you have, yeah, you have infrastructure in these places, so it can't be that dangerous. Right.
I mean, I, I think about all the times that I've been to Yosemite and been to the major, you know, named waterfalls that everybody goes to.
And they've got signs of like 900,000 languages there that show somebody with like one arm out of the water drowning and talking about the fact that people die here. Almost, it feels like almost annual.
Colin True
00:26:08.890 - 00:26:15.930
The Grand Canyon has the people puking sign. Right. It's kind of like, it's like they really want to drive home the point of, like it could get real bad here for you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:15.930 - 00:27:00.290
But Colin, how many time, every single time I've been to one of these waterfalls, there is not just one person on the other side of the boundary, you know, of the big metal fences that they put up. Many people of all ages on the other side of these fences.
And I'm like, these people maybe don't have experience knowing that when granite gets wet, it changes.
The consistency of granite just feels like ice sometimes when it's wet or if it has little moss or something on it, you know, it doesn't feel like sticky granite that you'd have at Joshua Tree. It is just shocking to me sometimes. Like, I mean, ultimately risk is everywhere, you know, including the streets you and I live on.
But I think there is an, there is absolutely a tendency to underestimate the risk in natural places that have built environment around them.
Colin True
00:27:00.370 - 00:27:56.800
You know, conversely, at Yosemite, excuse me, at Yellowstone, there are pictures of humans and bison hugging each other. And that's why there's such an issue there, because they're being encouraged. Yeah, no, I think you're right.
I think the funny thing about this is the kind of.
Maybe so what of this conversation is as I get frustrated a lot of times when people start gatekeeping, especially national parks around the casual outdoor, the increase in the more casual outdoor participant, and it's like, well, these places are tailor made for people to start getting into the outdoors. Doesn't mean that risk doesn't exist there. Yes, but also, we keep saying we want more and more people to go into the outdoors.
Cause it's all the benefits of doing it. It. But then, you know, we get, you know, kind of on our high horse about, like, wow. But then, you know, these mistakes happen.
I mean, the formative things that have happened to you and I in our life, about our outdoorsy lives, have been mostly like mistakes we've made in learning the hard way.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:56.960 - 00:28:00.240
Yeah, no, there's room for that. There's absolutely room for that.
Colin True
00:28:00.240 - 00:28:13.330
But I think we have to kind of change how we're approaching it. If the. The influx of people is going to continue to grow, there's got to be.
Maybe there's a new way to sort of teach people, like, hey, listen, you're going to make some mistakes. But, like, here's really. Do you need to pay attention to the X, Y and Z? Here's some basics.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:13.410 - 00:29:01.150
Yeah, right. Yeah. It's because you get that conversation every year. What Thinking about Half Dome. People, like, put, you know, there should.
You get people who say a. There should be complete railings the whole way up. And it should be like this very, you know, confined place.
And then there's other people who are like, take the. Take the steps off. Take the, you know, cables down. And it should just be for people who could do technical climbs or whatever. So it's like. Yeah.
How do you thread the needle to provide access to people? I mean, personally, I think we need. As. As a society, we're just so far removed from the natural world. We're taught that we're separate from it.
This is this kind of scary place.
I think if we had more environmental education in schools, if we had more crossover into outdoor education in schools and took outside from youth onward, and we could do education as part of that.
Colin True
00:29:01.390 - 00:29:01.790
Right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:01.950 - 00:29:08.700
That would be kind of amazing. I mean, I would like a little more rewilding, as they like to call it, of the schools.
Colin True
00:29:09.180 - 00:29:18.140
And look, these things are just gonna. These will happen. They are tragic, you know, but it is not. It's gonna happen. I mean, people getting outside.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:18.140 - 00:29:19.900
People especially with more people getting outside.
Colin True
00:29:19.980 - 00:29:20.460
Exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:20.460 - 00:29:26.300
The incidents are gonna pop up. But it can always be a lesson. A learning lesson, I think. A learning lesson. A lesson learned.
Colin True
00:29:26.300 - 00:29:28.380
A learning lesson. Yeah. It's not redundant at all.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:28.700 - 00:29:31.980
A learning, educational lesson for all of us. Learning.
Colin True
00:29:31.980 - 00:30:22.490
Well, not to only swim in a pool of tragedy for this. For your first episode back after nearly a month off. Thank you. Our next story is one of human resilience.
Ooh, 80 year old Floridian Bob Becker completed the Badwater 135. Badwater, which famously starts in Death Valley is nicknamed the world's toughest race mostly for its extreme heat.
On the day that Becker started his 135 mile journey the temperature was 118 degrees Fahrenheit and Becker finished about 45 hours later. If you read the story, it's great. You know he has tried multiple times. He started running when he was 50. He runs all ultramarathons.
He puts on ultramarathons. Really just inspirational. Amazing story. But can we talk for a second about the heat at Badwater?
I mean is there another element to something hard that you would rate over heat for how hard that thing is going to be?
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:23.450 - 00:30:32.890
I mean first, thank you for lifting the mood especially. And thank you also for waiting until I got back from the trail for these. Second, Bob, you are a badass.
Colin True
00:30:32.970 - 00:30:34.810
Badass, badass.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:34.970 - 00:31:50.040
And third, the heat is the factor with bad water. I mean the fact that they hold this thing in July still boggles my mind. But people love the challenge.
You know, you always have people come, especially from overseas to Death Valley in the summer. Absolute freaks.
But I mean, all right, the thing is like if you already know you can run an ultra, you know your body's capable of it, especially 100 plus mile ultra which is, you know, we're getting into the elite level of ultras here. Really the unknown quantity is the elements.
So how hot is it going to be, how sunny is it going to be and how are you going to manage for all of that? So, so you know something I think the average person might not realize when they think, you know, you're starting here at bad water.
Lowest point going to, it used to go up to Whitney. So the highest point, it used to be lowest to highest.
But as you move through the Sierra, as you're in the desert, as you're moving through the roads, you're just dealing with constant surfaces reflecting heat back at you. So it's not just the ambient temperature, it's like all of this heat being reflected right back at you and that is excruciating.
It's just like being in a frying pan. And, and you know, for me I personally have a hard time running in the heat. It's one of the reason I just don't do a lot.
A lot of trail races in Southern California are in the summer and so I just don't run a lot of races cuz I can't, I can't deal with the heat.
Colin True
00:31:50.360 - 00:31:57.480
But If I want to be fair, you don't want to just like, you know, let other people have a chance to win something. Let's be clear, okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:57.560 - 00:32:06.260
The thought of me winning any sort of race is deeply laughable. No, I do. I'm very good though, at. At eating everything at the aid stations.
Colin True
00:32:06.890 - 00:32:10.090
That's the reason to do a race, that is. The aid stations. What do they got?
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:11.930 - 00:32:36.100
Some potato chips I backpack so I can eat like a child. The things I've eaten over the past few weeks. No, but I mean, I. You know, when you're dealing. Yeah. Bad water is the heat.
You're dealing with the heat. So it's like electrolytes and balancing electrolytes and water intakes.
You also don't want hyponatremia where you have not enough electrolytes and too much water. Using that lightweight sun protection. Get your pit stained hoodie going.
Colin True
00:32:36.260 - 00:32:40.340
That's right. On sale now@shantaysellbear.com.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:40.420 - 00:32:51.540
My only fans. But yeah, I actually just got from Gossamer Gear a golden. A golden. What is it called? Light Trek hike umbrella. So it's a sun umbrella?
Colin True
00:32:51.540 - 00:32:54.900
No, I don't co sign. I don't endorse the umbrellas. I'm not into that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:54.900 - 00:32:55.780
Wait, no, really?
Colin True
00:32:56.180 - 00:33:02.690
Unless you're gonna go full dorky 80s with like the umbrella hat. That used to be the novelty thing. Like you get like in the Johnson Smith catalog. Other than that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:02.920 - 00:33:10.920
No, no, no. Dude, listen, that umbrella I had. I had an old Go Light umbrella for the old school people. They know all about, you know, I.
Colin True
00:33:10.920 - 00:33:16.520
Made fun of them when I worked at Go Light. I'm like, who buys these things? Like, you have no idea how many people buy these things.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:16.840 - 00:33:26.240
So many people. I got mine in a hiker box for free. But it was. I took that thing out on the Colorado trail with me, not because of the sun, but because of the hail.
And it was awesome.
Colin True
00:33:26.240 - 00:33:27.320
Oh, that's fair, actually.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:27.400 - 00:33:28.520
Yeah, it was great.
Colin True
00:33:28.680 - 00:33:29.040
I.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:29.040 - 00:34:04.350
You can attach it.
So their Gossamer gear actually also sells a little attachment kit that you can put on with the umbrella, but you can just attach it to the shoulder of your backpack so you don't have to have something in your hand if you're using poles or you just don't want something in your hand. Dude, don't knock it.
As somebody who spent a lot of time hiking the Southern California PCT for that, that book, having an umbrella in the desert was crucial because it ref. That whole same thing. I just talked about where the. The sun that the heat isn't just baking you externally.
You know, you're baking also from the ground up because it's refle. Reflecting up like the umbrella does. Cut that down too.
Colin True
00:34:04.670 - 00:34:12.750
I believe you. I believe that Crocs are comfortable too. But at some point, fashion matters, people. And I'm not going out backpacking with a umbrella.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:12.830 - 00:34:16.110
Colin, you are almost 50 years old. Fashion matter.
Colin True
00:34:16.670 - 00:34:18.750
And I've. Yes, that's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:19.470 - 00:34:20.510
Barely functional.
Colin True
00:34:20.750 - 00:34:23.550
I'll be right back. I have to go shake my fist at these clouds.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:23.550 - 00:34:25.390
Yeah, go out on your lawn, old man.
Colin True
00:34:25.470 - 00:34:26.610
Get off of my lawn.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:27.560 - 00:34:31.320
I'll be out there with your umbrella and your crocs and my pit stained shirt.
Colin True
00:34:31.720 - 00:34:36.280
Well, that, that's fine. That's gonna make you a lot of money.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:36.680 - 00:34:38.200
Bob, you need an umbrella.
Colin True
00:34:38.200 - 00:34:42.240
Actually, Shantae's joining us from a sauna and another sun hoodie right now to.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:42.240 - 00:34:55.170
Get it ready for actually my new job. I'm gonna actually partner.
Listen, Ridge Marino, if you want to partner with me on disgusting up some of your beautiful shirts and then we can like maybe you guys get the 20 instead of Colin since he's not a believer.
Colin True
00:34:56.599 - 00:35:00.279
That's right. Today's episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by Shantae Sweat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:00.839 - 00:35:04.919
My pit stains. Lucrative, lucrative pit stains.
Colin True
00:35:05.399 - 00:36:07.180
Today's episode of Rockfight is actually presented by Lems. Are you looking for shoes that offer both long lasting durability and all day comfort?
Well, look no further than Lem's with a versatile lineup featuring over 30 thoughtfully designed styles. From minimalist sandals and rugged trail boots to vegan vegan friendly sneakers like the primal Zen and laid back slip ons.
There's truly something for everyone. Whether you're hitting the trail, traveling the globe or strolling through town or apparently hiking the JMT.
LEM's are built to move with you naturally and keep up with you every step of the way. Get shopping over@lemshoes.com Today's next story in the Rockfoot is presented by Oboz, who loves hiking.
And as the cupid of the outdoors, Oboz wants to help. You love hiking just as much as they do.
So before Shantae left for the trail, we had a conversation here on the Rock fight about the idea of taking guns on adventures for use as protection. We talked about this after outdoor journalist Maddie Schuller wrote about this conundrum for gear junkie. Maddie actually got back to me.
She was in the Grand Canyon when we were recorded that episode. I told her if there's any reason for you not to get back to me being in the Grand Canyon is a great reason.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:07.580 - 00:36:07.940
Right.
Colin True
00:36:07.940 - 00:36:15.980
So we might have her on the show in the future. But we put up a clip of our conversation on Instagram and oh boy, did we get some comments.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:17.190 - 00:36:17.430
Every.
Colin True
00:36:17.830 - 00:36:41.880
Everything from, and I'm quoting here, a handgun is essential for anyone who backpacks or hikes, especially if you are female. Can't trust anyone. 2. This was my favorite one. I mean, I never felt the need for a gun in the backcountry, but in Walmart you kind of want one.
But that was pretty good. Shantae, reviewing these comments, any compelling cases making you reconsider your position on this topic?
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:42.030 - 00:36:55.070
Topic? That would be no. Hell no. In fact, did you wish you had a gun? No, I don't. I. I looked at the.
I hadn't looked at the post since you posted it because I have been in the wild apparently needing a gun the whole time.
Colin True
00:36:55.070 - 00:36:57.390
But it's amazing you're alive right now.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:57.949 - 00:37:05.310
Yeah, yeah, it really is. It's. I credit it to my marmot protection squad that I amassed while I was out there.
Colin True
00:37:05.310 - 00:37:07.470
Just everyone following you down the trail, strutting.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:07.710 - 00:37:12.420
I saw three families of grouse. I roped them in. It was a right couple of grounds.
Colin True
00:37:12.420 - 00:37:14.780
And your stinky ridge Marine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:15.100 - 00:37:37.900
My stinky pits. Yeah, it's a force field of its own. No, there was some disturbing comments on there, Colin.
There was somebody that referenced that I clearly must want to be sexually assaulted essentially and some other stuff like that. I mean, I don't think the people who commented on that post largely were listeners. I think they got their hashtag or something. But yeah, yeah.
No, not a single comment in there made me go, huh, maybe I should think about this again.
Colin True
00:37:38.140 - 00:37:43.560
I mean it's quite telling that anyone who took the time to leave the comment, except for the Walmart person, was pro gun on. On the trail.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:44.600 - 00:37:47.480
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think they, I think they got there in a different way.
Colin True
00:37:48.520 - 00:38:09.130
One of the comments was, as a man, I'm again quoting, I have a gun on me and I feel safer with it on me. Bears don't have guns. People do. And I read this and I'm like, wait a minute, so you're carrying a gun because other people's carries guns.
There's like this compounding effect like, well, they have a gun, so now I have a gun. Now other people have a gun. You know, just like before, you know, we all have guns only because other people have guns, right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:09.530 - 00:39:41.340
Yeah, that's what it is. It's circular thinking. I mean, it's not to say. And I'm not trying to minimize. Again, and we talked about this on the episode.
I highly doubt any of those commenters listened to the whole conversation 100%. Right. So we talked about that on the episode. That. Yeah, I'm not a Pollyanna. I'm not saying that. It's just so wonderful out on trail.
I mean, I've dealt with all sorts of different kinds of aggressions, non physical violence aggressions out there. And so shit happens. People have been killed on trails. People are killed by guns every day in this country.
So, you know, I just wonder like, what is it like having a brain that is telling you constantly that there's danger all around that everybody else is carrying a gun, so I've got to carry a gun. It's just this like strange fear based circular thinking.
And I certainly understand the need to, you know, learn how to be proficient with a gun and carrying one in grizzly country, for instance, or some other scenarios.
I just don't think the incidence of gun violence and trails is remotely high enough for me to add this, this sort of literal and metaphoric weight to my pack. And so at the end of the day, you know, carry what you want out there. Do you know, bring, bring cans of food if that's what you want.
I've seen people do that. I've seen people bring like giant Bibles out with them. I don't care what's in your pack. I'm not carrying it.
So for me, I just don't feel safer around guns in general. So it's just not going to become part of my pack. And so could violence occur to me out there? Absol as it could on the very street I live in.
Again, as we were talking about earlier.
Colin True
00:39:43.100 - 00:40:21.040
I think that you're onto it with the fear based thing because again, like, are you so paranoid going anywhere that you're just like, what is gonna happen to me? Boy, I better have my gun to protect me. I mean, this is the stuff that makes me like really worried about not the future of the human race.
Just to say that, hey, we really have some, we have some work to do, guys. All right? We all need to kind of get into therapy a little bit. Little bit. Understand where we are, understand the hate, guys.
We're not living in caves and still in the food chain anymore. To the point you said earlier, like, we have pulled ourselves out of it to the point that people think they can hug. Bison. Okay, you're gonna be okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:21.600 - 00:40:23.560
Bison should probably start carrying guns.
Colin True
00:40:23.560 - 00:40:28.080
The bison should carry guns because they got hunted almost to the point of extinction.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:28.400 - 00:40:30.880
They might need to start talking to the orcas. You know what I'm saying?
Colin True
00:40:31.280 - 00:40:51.100
They should form a union. Okay. And like, you know, and then take us down a few pegs and Maybe, hey, for 10 next decade, you guys are in timeout and you're back into the wild.
Wild. And we're going to live in your houses. It's just mind blowing to read some of these comments and it's like a guy.
I think this is the most commented on thing we've ever posted on Instagram and it's just attracted the crazies.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:51.420 - 00:41:34.120
Yeah, it happens. I mean, I do feel for folks that that's just how their brain works, because I can't imagine carrying around that much fear. Like, I have plenty to be.
You know, I'm a woman living in this country and I. There's plenty to be worried about on a daily basis. But in general, I don't live my life fear forward. It's just not who I am.
And I try to be prov, you know, proactive. Applied some risk management to my life in general, but, you know, and the trail. But yeah, I just. I don't know, man. I hope you all get some hugs.
I hope you all have actual conversations with other human beings and realize that most. Most people are not walking around strapped, waiting for the next, like, looking to murder you. If.
If this was a thing, wouldn't we see so many more stories of the good guy with the gun, like, saving the day?
Colin True
00:41:34.360 - 00:41:35.160
Oh, my God.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:35.320 - 00:41:45.990
We just don't see that that often, unfortunately. So it's not enough for me to change my mind, alas. I'm sorry, Instagram commenters for the disappointment here. You know what, Colin?
Colin True
00:41:45.990 - 00:41:46.550
What's that?
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:46.790 - 00:41:56.990
Today's top stories on the rock fight were brought to you by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking. And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including.
Colin True
00:41:56.990 - 00:41:57.990
You just took a long walk.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:58.150 - 00:42:07.870
I did. Three weeks long. I didn't. I. Yeah, I was out there. I was walking every day. But you know what? And I discovered this out there.
Number one, because WI fi is overrated.
Colin True
00:42:08.270 - 00:42:12.190
Is it, though? Is it, though? It's the first thing you did when you got back to civilization.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:12.510 - 00:42:18.750
Don't. Don't. Shh. Number two, because trail names are cooler than usernames.
Colin True
00:42:18.750 - 00:42:21.350
Did you go by Pokey the entire time you were out there?
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:21.350 - 00:42:23.990
No, that was my summer camp name. I Have a different trail name?
Colin True
00:42:23.990 - 00:42:24.590
Rustic.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:24.670 - 00:42:26.030
Rustic, yeah. You remember.
Colin True
00:42:26.110 - 00:42:28.670
Do you introduce yourself as rustic as you're meeting people?
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:28.830 - 00:42:46.010
You know, the JMT is not the same as the PCT that way. But there were some people who wanted.
I met some PCT hikers that I did introduce myself as rustic because they don't know how to process real human names. So at that point you're like 800 miles into the trail. You're like, who is Joan? What is that? What is a Douglas?
Colin True
00:42:47.130 - 00:42:52.010
What is the rule around trail? Do you have to be on a long trail to get a trail name?
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:52.250 - 00:43:11.610
Well, and you have to be given the name. So it's a thru hiking convention. Some people think it's goofy. Whatever. It's just a fun, silly part of the part.
I think it might have started on the at back in the day. I feel like backpacker probably wrote about this at some point. Number three, mosquitoes keep you humble.
Colin True
00:43:11.770 - 00:43:15.130
Do they though? Do they though?
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:15.850 - 00:43:17.610
There were so many mosquitoes on the trail.
Colin True
00:43:17.690 - 00:43:18.250
Was it bad?
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:18.730 - 00:43:23.770
It was real bad. I actually had to bust out the 99% DEET. The au naturel products.
Colin True
00:43:23.770 - 00:43:25.490
Did you try the mimikai that we got at?
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:26.280 - 00:43:31.960
I did. It smelled amazing. It was no match for Sierra mosquitoes at the height of.
Colin True
00:43:32.040 - 00:43:33.200
You got some work to do. Mimic.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:33.200 - 00:43:39.800
I sorry guys. I think. I think it would work well in lighter mosquito pressure, but it was a little too intense.
Colin True
00:43:39.960 - 00:43:41.400
More of a lowland mosquito.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:41.640 - 00:44:18.000
Yeah, I think so. I think Sierra mosquitoes are like mosquitoes on steroids.
So number four you might know is that hiking means the katabatic collection featuring the Catabatic lt.
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Chris DeMakes
00:44:19.600 - 00:44:21.760
It's time for a parting shot.
Colin True
00:44:23.600 - 00:45:38.560
All right. It's time for the parting shot. And I had a whole other parting shot that I was going to talk about.
But then later, earlier today I read the news that Malcolm Jamal Warner, better known as theo on the 1980s hit TV show the Cosby show, passed away at the age of 54 while he was on vacation with his family. For those of us of a certain age, and I'm gonna include you in this Shantae, the Cosby show was an important part of our Childhood.
The revelations about Bill Cosby in recent years have made it difficult to rewatch or even talk about the Cosby, which absolutely sucks because that show was an indelible part of the 80s experience. I was born smack dab in the middle of the 70s, and the TV and movies of the 80s are central to who I am.
And while I watched many of the memorable TV shows at the time, the Cosby show is just kind of one of those that I have distinct memories of. It's Thursday night. We're watching the Cosby show. And Theo was a big reason why. He was a character that was only a few years older to me.
Saw a lot of the character in myself. So when I hear that we lost Malcolm Jamal Warner, I was pretty gutted. Apparently, he's still a working actor. Didn't know that.
But even if you know his real name, he was probably Theo to you. So, RIP Malcolm Jamal Warner.
I hope the Cosby show is one day able to shed the stink of its titular star because it's an out and out classic and everyone should be able to enjoy the work of our deceased pal, Theo.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:38.880 - 00:45:45.470
Aw, that was really nice, Colin. I loved that show. I did watch it also as a kid. As a younger than you. Child. Child.
Colin True
00:45:47.310 - 00:45:52.670
Barely. You're older than me. You're a year closer. You turned a whole year closer on.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:52.670 - 00:45:54.670
The trail just a few days ago.
Colin True
00:45:54.830 - 00:45:57.710
Until September when I pull ahead again.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:57.790 - 00:46:04.190
You get ancient. Well, you know what? I'm going to do something I haven't done, I think, before with you is I'm also going to add a parting shot.
Colin True
00:46:04.590 - 00:46:05.150
All right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:05.230 - 00:46:28.410
So while I was out on the trail, I. Another thing. Word travels weird when you're out there because you don't have WI Fi and you, you know, for better or worse.
And so you learn about things kind of here and there. And I learned about the wildfire that swept across the north rim of the Grand Canyon. Yeah. Just absolutely devastating.
And I. I actually don't have a personal connection to the canyon. I still, believe it or not, have not been.
Colin True
00:46:29.210 - 00:46:30.529
You've not been to the Grand Canyon?
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:30.529 - 00:46:31.210
No, no.
Colin True
00:46:31.210 - 00:46:33.130
It's your blind spot. Interesting.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:33.130 - 00:46:34.970
Lord of the Rings. I know. I'll work on it.
Colin True
00:46:36.170 - 00:46:38.050
Lord of the Rings is more egregious, if I'm being honest.
Shawnté Salabert
00:46:38.050 - 00:47:51.370
Maybe we can watch it on the south rim together. But. No, but I spent some time. I mean, I thought about it.
There was actually one day I was up high and smoke came over from a fire that was near Fresno. And, you know, you just. You can't Escape it. Living in California, wildfires, you know, part of my own life cycle.
And I've been chased off the trail before by approaching wildfires on the PCT and out in the Sierra. And I've had to evacuate my home because of wildfires. But I think for a lot of people, you know, wildfire remains this sort of abstract thing.
It's awful, but it's of kind, kind of abstract. And I also think that people don't think that fire or any other natural disaster is going to hit a place as iconic as the Grand Canyon.
So I think that's part of the shock that people are feeling is seeing a place they know, especially since there was a very iconic building there, the Lodge, you know, But I think we have to recognize that really no place, no person, no matter how iconic, is immune to the potential of catastrophic fires or other major weather events. I mean, climate change is not coming. It's already here in a lot of ways, small and large. Large.
And I think we're going to continue to see destruction that previous generations just probably couldn't even imagine. I. Interesting. Taking it back to the trail here. I actually met two climate scientists while I was on trail the night before my birthday.
Colin True
00:47:52.170 - 00:47:54.970
Did one have a weird interest in your base layers?
Shawnté Salabert
00:47:56.090 - 00:48:38.590
I wish, because I would have just taken the money right then and run, but call me if you do. But they were actually, it was interesting because they were doing a different route.
They were going, they were linking together kind of the, the JMT PCT with some deeper parts of the Kern river drainage, which sounded like a really fun trip, but they were actually cutting the trip short because, get this, one of them has to travel to the Hague this week to be present for the announcement of the International Court of Justice's opinion on the responsibility of countries, especially those that contribute largely to, you know, greenhouse gas emissions. Like, what is their responsibility to actively fight about the acceleration of climate change? Like that is a decision that's coming from the Hague.
This.
Colin True
00:48:38.590 - 00:48:40.470
You were camping like a big deal.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:40.550 - 00:48:51.090
With a big deal. I was like, can I get your information? And I did. But. But yeah, we, we shared snacks, it was a good time.
We talked about Cheetos, but also climate change.
Colin True
00:48:51.090 - 00:48:58.210
So is it kind of a bummer, though? He's like, you know, the. To create the packaging of those, you know, blocks you're eating. Like, you're like, shut up, man. They're delicious.
Shawnté Salabert
00:48:58.530 - 00:50:32.350
Well, it's interesting because you. Do you talk about that out there.
I mean, a lot of us, I ate, I, I make my food largely Most of my backpacking meals I make myself just so I can have food that I could digest out there. And I, I like, but I'm eating it out of plastic bags and putting all those little microplastics in my body.
And then I do, I try to reuse the bags as much as possible, but, yeah, anyway, where there's a lot of waste involved. Right. But so, you know, we're out there. I'm out here with two climate scientists. One of them is a lawyer.
And on a surface level, you know, we're already in it. We're in the middle of a heat wave out there.
We had all just walked through a giant section of forest that had been mowed down like pickup sticks from avalanches in 2023 when we had that crazy snow beginning in here, right.
And the three of us kind of talked about, like, what would it take for the average Sierra hiker, for instance, to realize they shouldn't really take for granted even a trail that's as, you know, long standing as the JMT or the PCT take for granted that it would remain unchanged, because it hasn't.
I mean, the trail every year sees little changes from trees falling down, and that could be from, you know, infestations that kill the tree, that could be from drought, that could be from fire, that could be from snow.
But I really suspect, you know, we talked about it, but I suspect, like, in all things, it's easier for most of us to remain the slowly boiling frog, kind of lightly aware that things aren't the same, but also desperately clinging on to any semblance of normality because so much about life is hard. And so you, you're like, can I just have this one thing? Can I just pretend, la la la, this isn't happening?
Colin True
00:50:32.430 - 00:50:32.990
Yep.
Shawnté Salabert
00:50:33.230 - 00:50:48.090
But, you know, for me, during this trip, I also learned, by the way, here's some depressing news, but some of the glaciers in Yosemite, the rangers and the scientists aren't even calling them glaciers anymore. They are calling them glacial corpses.
Colin True
00:50:48.570 - 00:50:49.370
That's a thing?
Shawnté Salabert
00:50:49.770 - 00:51:42.000
Yeah. I was like, I've never heard that term before. It's absolutely despondent. But no, the water really feels too hot for this, this little froggy.
But, you know, I really do think we thought about it. And I said, I, I think it's thinking about the things we love about these places.
Like, talk about pika little squeaky pika and my best friends, the marmots.
You know, if we think about them, maybe it makes it less abstract because you're like, oh, wait, These guys are going to lose their habitat because all the trees are going to come encroaching on the meadows and yada, yada, yada.
So I don't know if y' all are having a hard time sort of lasering in on the fact that change is happening and it is marching towards us faster than we want it to. Think about the pike. Think about their sweet little furry faces squeaking lovingly at you and being like, squeak, squeak. Save my home. Squeak, squeak.
That's my parting shot, Colin. It's so bad.
Colin True
00:51:43.280 - 00:51:46.320
Listen, you know, very thoughtful parting shot.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:47.360 - 00:51:50.200
Just here to bring it back down. I thought we can close the cycle.
Colin True
00:51:50.200 - 00:51:53.280
You know, depression. That's a pretty big parting shot.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:53.600 - 00:51:55.280
Just as small. Just as small.
Colin True
00:51:55.840 - 00:51:58.130
Hey, world, get your act together. It was basically.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:58.200 - 00:52:00.520
Basically together. The pica need us.
Colin True
00:52:00.920 - 00:52:13.560
The fucking pica it is. I definitely give myself more passes on things that maybe I didn't used to because of the dumpster fire. We see everything is hard.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:13.560 - 00:52:15.480
Yeah. It's legit. And I get it.
Colin True
00:52:15.640 - 00:52:27.960
I'll be more guilty about I didn't have a recycling bin when I wish. And I should have taken that bottle home with me. When we're back to we have a government who believes in science. I like it. Right. You know?
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:28.280 - 00:52:29.720
Yeah. What am I gonna do?
Colin True
00:52:29.880 - 00:52:37.320
But that's kind of the point, though, right? It's kind of. It is like. It's really hard to kind of, like, you know, in the face of all this, to kind of keep that. That mindset up. So.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:37.720 - 00:52:38.200
It is.
Colin True
00:52:38.200 - 00:52:40.360
It's cool you get to hang out with those climate scientists, though.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:40.360 - 00:52:44.600
Yeah. It was pretty rad. I can't wait. Can't wait to hear the International Court of Justice.
Colin True
00:52:45.320 - 00:52:47.080
Yeah. I wonder who they're gonna talk about.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:47.400 - 00:52:51.240
Yeah. I can't imagine. What country do you think it's Mauritania.
Colin True
00:52:52.370 - 00:52:53.250
Well, welcome back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:53.650 - 00:52:57.010
Thanks, man. I'm glad to be here. As long as here exists.
Colin True
00:52:57.330 - 00:53:08.050
Exactly. And that is the show for today. We want your emails. Send them to myrockfightmail.com if you want to put a bid on Shantae's stinky Venmo.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:08.290 - 00:53:10.970
Shante-S A L A B E R.
Colin True
00:53:10.970 - 00:53:17.580
T. There you go. Send your money for beer. Send us proposals for her. It's not even that stinky because it's wool. It can't be that stinky. Yeah, that's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:18.620 - 00:53:23.180
Unless you're Sean Astin and Goonies and, you know, we could talk. That was my challenge.
Colin True
00:53:23.740 - 00:53:27.380
He won't do that yet. Until you watch Lord of the Rings of the rings.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:27.380 - 00:53:28.860
I'll do it for you. Okay?
Colin True
00:53:29.340 - 00:53:46.230
But the Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight llc. For Shantae Celebr, I'm Colin Trude. Thanks for listening and here to take us out.
Eight days away from Less Than Jake in San Diego with Chris Demaics, who's here right now to sing the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:53:46.230 - 00:54:41.780
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pick bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head this is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight, Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Right fight. Rock fight, Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight. Rock fight.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:44.340 - 00:54:46.900
Rock fight.
