Will Tariffs Kill The Innovation Engine Of The Outdoor Industry?
- colin7931
- Jul 14
- 47 min read
Today on the show, the Monday crew (the Monday Boys?) of outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford and brand/creative expert Producer Dave join Colin to talk through the following topics:
Big 5 Sold! Did the new owners make a good deal? (06:09)
To celebrate Ortovox entering the mountain bike market we count the amount of cliches in the press release and ponder the motivation behind the move itself. (15:23)
Helen Of Troy had a rough Q1 thanks mostly to Hydro Flask's poor performance. Was it the Costco of it all? (21:50)
Tariff Watch 2025 is back! After a flurry of updates to our ridiculous tariff situation during the first part of the month, the guys take a look at the moves that were made and analyze the fall out that is likely to come for the innovation engine of the outdoor industry. Spoiler Alert: it doesn't look great. (32:29)
For The Parting Shot, Producer Dave takes a look at Hoka's new brand video. Go Bob Dylan! (53:14)
Click here to help those in need after the flooding of Texas' hill country.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:51.100
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and today the Monday crew of outdoor industry insider Owen Comerford and outdoor brand and creative expert producer Dave are back. Today we're going to talk about a bunch of things, but of course what will have to be mentioned, tariffs.
But before we, before we get to that, be sure tomorrow to check out a new episode of Open Container with Doug Schnitzbahn. Follow and listen to Open Container on your favorite podcast podcast app.
And on Wednesday, we're checking in with Switchback show director Christina Henderson to hear what she thinks after this year's event to take an early look at 2026 and on Friday, come back for the insights that we learned while attending the Outdoor Market Alliance Media event this week. Lot coming up this week, guys. Stick around though. We'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:51.740 - 00:00:55.580
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:58.070 - 00:04:14.900
Hey everyone, before we keep going here, I need to tell you about our teammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, if you run an outdoor, an endurance or an active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR and digital marketing, belay partner or drinking buddy than Darby. They can help your business reach new heights and they might just keep you from falling on your ass.
Since we started working with Darby, more and more people, and this is an important point now. Guys, I want you to hear me on this. More and more people have reached out to us here at the Rock Fight because of that messaging.
Look guys, I'm dead serious. If they can help us, they can help anybody. Hit them up@darbycommunications.com do it today.
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Chris DeMakes
00:04:14.980 - 00:04:24.020
Be a shop floor hero. Endeavor's here to stay. Shop floor hero Sell through is the way.
Colin True
00:04:27.440 - 00:04:36.720
All right, the Monday Boys are back. Do the Monday Boys need a. A tagline theme song? Do we need a. Do we need. What do we. What should we say? Well, I say the Monday Boys.
Do we all say something like.
Producer Dave
00:04:37.440 - 00:04:39.200
No, we should just kill that right now.
Colin True
00:04:39.200 - 00:04:41.280
Just the Monday Boys on the rock fight.
Producer Dave
00:04:45.120 - 00:04:50.720
There. That's. That's what we're grabbing. We're going to grab that. And that'll be the drop right there. That's going to hear.
Colin True
00:04:50.720 - 00:04:51.600
Oh and going woo.
Producer Dave
00:04:51.680 - 00:04:53.090
Yeah, that's it.
Colin True
00:04:53.410 - 00:05:00.290
I do think we do need to check in. We teased the last time we were together. Two weeks off here. Owen, how were the fireworks?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:00.770 - 00:05:28.770
Pretty darn epic, I would say for a local community. I mean I think at least half of my property taxes went to pay for these fireworks. It was wild.
It's the same group apparently that does the chauffeur, the city of Detroit. So they had these barges in the middle of the lake and we were just. Yeah, Perfect position. And yeah, they really, really nicely done.
Colin True
00:05:29.490 - 00:05:33.570
Did you go out on your boat the next day and skim off all the trash yourself or.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:34.370 - 00:05:45.710
No, no, but our neighbors did warn us that if we went out on the boat that we should cover. Cover the. The seats of the pontoon with towels because you. You will get sprayed with. With some. Some burning embers.
Colin True
00:05:46.750 - 00:05:47.670
Oh, burning embers.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:47.670 - 00:05:48.910
Well, potentially, yeah.
Producer Dave
00:05:49.790 - 00:05:52.110
You know, other people call that shrapnel.
Colin True
00:05:53.230 - 00:05:55.790
Well, what are the fireworks supposed to represent on the 4th of July?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:55.870 - 00:05:57.390
Right, so yeah, but.
Producer Dave
00:05:57.390 - 00:06:01.750
Yeah, but large wholesale explosions and that's right.
Colin True
00:06:01.750 - 00:06:05.950
We're glad you paid paid for that upcharge for that house. You know, it sounds like it was worth it.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:05.950 - 00:06:06.910
Oh, 100%.
Colin True
00:06:09.710 - 00:06:12.430
All right, everybody, time for the Rock Fight Lightning Round.
Chris DeMakes
00:06:14.590 - 00:06:15.870
Lightning Round.
Colin True
00:06:18.250 - 00:06:31.090
And the Rock Fight Lightning round is presented by the ultimate comfort of more than 30amazingly crafted and diverse styles from Lem's Footwear and Lemsshoes.com to learn more, I think, Owen, we need to get you a pair of lems. If I'm not mistaken, I think I.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:31.090 - 00:06:48.330
Have the sandal, but I'm not as I think we've talked about on this pod. I'm not a toe post sandal person, so I actually gifted those.
But no, I'm looking forward to getting the Trail Slayer, Slasher, Trailblazer, Blazer, whatever.
Producer Dave
00:06:48.330 - 00:06:52.810
No, but let's park that name though and let's use that later because that's excellent.
Colin True
00:06:53.130 - 00:06:54.810
Yeah, I'm wearing my trailblazers right now, actually.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:55.130 - 00:06:55.690
Good shoe.
Producer Dave
00:06:55.690 - 00:06:57.930
Yeah, I'm gonna change my Trailblazer to Trailblazer.
Colin True
00:06:58.730 - 00:07:04.490
Gonna write Raining Blood on the side of it because I do a little collab. The Lems and Slayer collab. Can we do that?
Producer Dave
00:07:04.490 - 00:07:07.370
No, the other will be Trail Anthrax with the Trail Slayer.
Colin True
00:07:07.450 - 00:07:10.650
This is just good free advice. You could partner up with metal bands throughout history.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:11.170 - 00:07:11.810
Absolutely.
Producer Dave
00:07:12.370 - 00:07:14.770
That's right. One for each shoe.
Colin True
00:07:15.010 - 00:07:37.330
All right, so for the Lightning round, we're starting off with some news that happened right before the fourth of July holiday.
News broke that sporting goods retailer Big Five was being acquired by a combination of specialty golf retailer Worldwide Golf and private equity firm Capitol Hill Group for I believe an all in price of $112 million, including the assumption of $71 million in debt. Did I get that right, Owen?
Eoin Comerford
00:07:37.690 - 00:07:50.010
Exactly right. So in other words, the price to the equity holders, the shareholders was whatever that difference is. 30 some thousand. 30 some million dollars.
The rest really went to pay off the debt.
Colin True
00:07:50.250 - 00:07:54.810
It sounds like a pretty low amount considering we're talking upward close to 100 stores.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:56.410 - 00:07:58.330
We're talking 400 plus stores.
Colin True
00:07:59.690 - 00:08:02.890
Oh yeah, yeah. So it's even worse.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:03.130 - 00:08:26.960
Yeah, I mean, yeah, this, this, I mean basically this is a, this is a company that did almost $800 million last year, which now is down from a peak of 1.2 billion at the peak of the, of the COVID sports boom. So yeah, I mean you're kind of getting a billion dollar retailer for kind of pennies in the dollar. Absolutely.
Colin True
00:08:27.440 - 00:08:31.440
So was this, you know, what's your take? I mean, was this a good deal, bad deal? What do you think?
Eoin Comerford
00:08:31.440 - 00:10:54.470
Looking at this, you know, the price itself is 60% higher than, or sorry, 36% higher than the 60 day average, which is what people typically look at when they're looking at these kinds of deals. These go private deals where they're snapping up the publicly traded companies.
That said though, the 52 week high is 299, so you're less than 50% of the 52 week high, which is really pretty roughly. And that's not that far away from the, the spike of where it was $44 a share back in November of 21. Now that was sort of like a single day spike.
But, but still, I mean this, this was once a pretty well valued company that has, is on a sort of a long and precipitous slide to. I don't know if it was going to be a bankruptcy or. Certainly, though not great things were happening. Right. And so is it a great price? I don't know.
The company's losing money, it's in a challenging situation, but something needed to happen. And so from that perspective, I think it's actually great news for Big 5 and for its, for its employees or at least most of them.
There's probably going to be some, you know, some consolidation, you know, at the overall executive management level.
But in terms of store employees, et cetera and the longevity of that, I think this is a good thing and I think it's ultimately a good thing for the Big 5 brand because CHG, based upon their investment with Worldwide Golf, has shown that they want to invest in these companies. So they've helped Worldwide Golf open a bunch of stores.
And to those that aren't familiar with Worldwide Golf, they actually don't really go to market so much with that brand. Their brands are like Edwin Watts Golf Shops, Golfers Warehouse, the Golf Mart, Roger Dunn Golf Shop.
So it's a bunch of regional players that they've rolled up into a single piece. So they know retail. They are about growth and Expansion. They know E Commerce.
So I think there's a lot that they can bring to the table here to really hopefully take big five out of the 1980s, which is kind of where they've been stuck for the last 40 plus years.
Colin True
00:10:55.110 - 00:10:57.430
Should we read into the Golf? Oh, sorry, go ahead, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:10:57.750 - 00:11:13.400
I was going to say I hope not because I think it was in the 80s or 90s, wasn't big five? Weren't they charged with selling counterfeit, like running shoes that were made from cardboard?
And I'm not kidding, there was something in the early 90s.
Colin True
00:11:13.400 - 00:11:14.480
This is where it all were selling.
Producer Dave
00:11:14.480 - 00:11:29.800
Like New Balance and at Tonic. And they got fined for selling counterfeit as authentic.
But not only counterfeit, they literally had like cardboard in the cup, soles and things like that. But yeah, let's hope they've moved on from those days.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:29.800 - 00:11:30.400
Ivers hope.
Colin True
00:11:30.400 - 00:11:32.760
Super shoe coming soon from Big five Sporting.
Producer Dave
00:11:33.720 - 00:11:34.120
Right.
Colin True
00:11:35.380 - 00:11:35.860
Sustainable.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:35.860 - 00:11:44.020
The very first thing I would do if I took over Big five is change that logo. I mean, that logo looks like it came from. From 1940.
Colin True
00:11:44.660 - 00:11:48.380
Just wait like five, ten more years, it'll become retro and cool again. You know, just hang in there.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:48.380 - 00:12:09.520
No, I don't. I don't think so. Yeah, so I think it's a good thing and I think hopefully we will see more, more Big Five stores.
We'll see investment in the customer experience in those stores and the merchandising, maybe upgrade the overall appeal. So I think it's a good thing.
Producer Dave
00:12:09.520 - 00:12:21.240
Is there a place for their assortment in today's. I mean, are they going to be the Sierra of athletic? I mean, where do you go with their mix, with what's going on in the market?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:21.560 - 00:13:01.480
There'll always be a place at the value end of the spectrum. Right.
Academy has sort of owned that to a degree or is trying to own that as they expand out of the Southeast in Texas, and they're moving more into my backyard. I don't think they're quite into Michigan yet, but they're in, I think Indiana, Ohio now, sort of moving right up the Ohio River Valley.
So they're trying to do that.
They haven't really gone too much onto Big five's turf as a viash, but I think because I think more than half of Big Five stores that are in California, from what I understand.
Colin True
00:13:01.720 - 00:13:03.600
Yeah, it's big out here, but.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:03.600 - 00:13:11.200
But I would say. And they're small. Big five tends to be a little bit smaller format. They're right, you know, well, smallish. Like what, 20,000?
Colin True
00:13:11.200 - 00:13:13.280
Like a third size of a Dick's or something like that.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:13.280 - 00:13:13.800
Exactly.
Producer Dave
00:13:13.800 - 00:13:14.200
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:14.280 - 00:13:14.680
So.
Producer Dave
00:13:15.160 - 00:13:16.920
So are they competing with Walmart?
Eoin Comerford
00:13:18.120 - 00:13:30.700
Yes and no. I mean Walmart's sporting goods section is. Is pretty small, you know so it's, it's a.
But they definitely have a value play and, and they compete for that customer I would say.
Producer Dave
00:13:31.420 - 00:13:31.740
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:31.740 - 00:13:50.700
But with hopefully a better wider assortment. And they're, they're.
The big five model would be one where they are buying closeouts and they're buying off brands or off styles within brands or that kind of thing for that value customer. I don't think that's going to necessarily change. They can't change their whole customer base. But I think they can be more competitive.
Colin True
00:13:52.140 - 00:14:05.280
Is it too easy to. To read into the worldwide golf of it all and be like there is this, this is going to become a little more golf focused golf. He like this is.
Maybe they put in a little more entry level golf to kind of round out. There's maybe some other higher end golf balls.
Producer Dave
00:14:05.280 - 00:14:06.120
Exploding golf balls.
Colin True
00:14:06.120 - 00:14:06.760
What's that?
Producer Dave
00:14:07.240 - 00:14:08.840
Yeah, exploding golf balls.
Colin True
00:14:08.840 - 00:14:09.640
Novelties.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:09.640 - 00:14:10.200
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:14:10.440 - 00:14:11.640
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:11.960 - 00:14:21.080
Like by the case I think they could. I must admit I've never stepped foot into a big five so I don't know what their golf.
Colin True
00:14:21.080 - 00:14:22.280
Call yourself an insider.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:22.280 - 00:14:28.200
I know whatever. Next. Next time I'm in California, I'll make it. I'll make a trip.
Colin True
00:14:28.520 - 00:14:31.660
I don't think you need to. I think you could buy. Picture the worst of a tennis.
Producer Dave
00:14:31.660 - 00:14:36.740
Let me tell you, there's no place better for a pre strung tennis racket and a can of tennis balls.
Colin True
00:14:36.740 - 00:14:59.540
It really is like the. Oh, we need something. Whether it's like, you know, you know, birdies for whatever for your.
For your backyard game or, or, or some golf balls on the way to the course or whatever. It is the ultimate plastic baseball mitt. You got to pop in and get something from a sporting goods store. That's, that's a good go to for that.
Don't set your expectations much higher than that is kind of what I think.
Producer Dave
00:14:59.980 - 00:15:03.340
No, no. But they have a camping section. It's just propane tanks.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:03.340 - 00:15:03.700
Got it.
Producer Dave
00:15:03.700 - 00:15:04.180
That's all it is.
Colin True
00:15:04.180 - 00:15:08.220
A small little propane t. Glass bottles with rags coming out of them. That's what they call their pras.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:09.900 - 00:15:12.420
Okay. Let's stop beating up on the poor Big five.
Colin True
00:15:12.420 - 00:16:05.450
This is the lightning route. All right. All right. Well good on you big five. We are joking aside, we're rooting for you, you know. Come on. It's important.
We got to make sure when you see you be successful get back to get those numbers up a little bit higher. All right, next story. We have a new player, guys.
In the mountain bike gear and apparel world, Ortovox is launching their new lineup of mountain bike apparel and gear.
Per press release they came out last week, the brand, mostly known for its wool products and avalanche rescue equipment, has what they're calling their sequence Collection, a new lineup of mountain bike specific products slated to hit the market in the spring of 2026. So I thought we'd play a little. This is a press release. Let's play a little lightning round game.
I want to see how many of the cliches that were listed in the press release for this line that you guys can name. So I have one question, multiple choice question. Okay, let's see if you guys can nail what I read in this press release.
I made sure that the participants here have not read the press release.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:05.450 - 00:16:06.810
Okay, I read it.
Colin True
00:16:07.610 - 00:16:21.050
Okay, so which of the following cliches were included in the Ortovox mountain bike line press release? Was it A, that the products are performance focused? Was it B, that the products are made sustainably?
Producer Dave
00:16:21.850 - 00:16:24.650
I just have to stop. I already love this game. This is great.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:25.930 - 00:16:31.480
Do they go from town to trail, please.
Producer Dave
00:16:31.720 - 00:16:32.680
Mountain to bar.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:32.680 - 00:16:33.240
Owen.
Producer Dave
00:16:33.240 - 00:16:34.200
Mountain to bar.
Colin True
00:16:34.520 - 00:16:44.040
C, There was the inclusion of an ingredient partner or was it D? Products that were minimally designed for those with ambition.
Producer Dave
00:16:45.080 - 00:16:47.160
Wait a minute. Is there an all of the above?
Colin True
00:16:48.040 - 00:16:51.240
Well, Dave, you ruined the answer. The answer's E. All of the above.
Producer Dave
00:16:51.720 - 00:16:53.160
God dang it. I just.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:57.440 - 00:16:57.840
Yes.
Producer Dave
00:16:58.640 - 00:16:59.200
Yes.
Colin True
00:16:59.200 - 00:17:04.720
Yeah, they're just playing. Playing all the hits in the. In the Orthovox press release.
Producer Dave
00:17:05.840 - 00:17:06.320
Wow.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:07.040 - 00:17:56.710
I wonder to what degree, like, are we. With the advent of AI now, how many more press releases are just going to be written by AI and use every cliche known to man in.
I mean, we are already there. And so like, the junk that's being fed into the LLM for PR releases is the same. And.
And then when I see all of the telltale signs of ChatGPT sentence structure, EM Dash is everywhere. It's like, like people. I mean, stop with the hyphenate. Hey, an EM dash, that is. They are way off the cliff on the EM dashes for ChatGPT.
Yeah, you can. And. But you can pick that shit out from a mile away, people. It's fine.
If you're going to use your LLMs, use that stuff, but work on your prompts, work on your cleanup assets.
Producer Dave
00:17:57.350 - 00:18:07.670
But I'm going to. Hold on. I'm going to step in for the maligned PR professional here in one sense. What were they given to work with?
Colin True
00:18:07.750 - 00:18:08.310
That's it.
Producer Dave
00:18:09.430 - 00:18:32.470
What was the brief, what was the company, the brands led passion play description of what this meaningful product is we built, why we got here and what it means to us. Individuals in the outdoor space as expert in gear. What were they given otherwise? Was it just write a press release?
Colin True
00:18:32.470 - 00:18:33.270
That's what it was.
Producer Dave
00:18:33.270 - 00:18:34.270
And that was what. That's.
Colin True
00:18:34.270 - 00:18:51.510
That's what it was. I mean, I think that's it. We should, you know, Kelly Deegan here at Rigor, she's the one who's on the press release.
I don't want her to feel like, oh, and you're right, that there are plenty of things we're gonna see that are just shoddy, that a little. It's a little. A little breeze through it, you can improve it so it isn't so obvious. I don't know if that's necessarily the case here.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:52.470 - 00:18:55.830
I haven't even read this, so I'm not suggesting it was chatgpt.
Colin True
00:18:57.170 - 00:19:12.850
Been a. Pretty much to Dave's point, a copy and paste world for a lot of this stuff too, because she's just.
Or whoever wrote this is just going off of whatever the brand feeds them. Right. And if it's like, well, here's the talking points for the new line from Ortovox and it's sustainably made and performing.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:13.010 - 00:19:37.970
Wouldn'T you love to see the real press release? Like. Like a. Not a press release, but like a what really is going on release, which is like, hey, our sales are kind of shitty right now.
And so we were kind of brainstorming amongst the executives about what's an area that we're not in where we might be able to kind of leverage all the other stuff we do, repackage it, sell it as something different and hopefully get more sales. What about mountain biking? What do you think?
Colin True
00:19:38.850 - 00:19:39.730
Seasonal diversity?
Producer Dave
00:19:39.730 - 00:19:43.650
I've been mountain biking, Owen. Yeah, I've been mountain biking. How about we get into mountain biking?
Colin True
00:19:44.450 - 00:19:52.040
Ortovox, right? History. Marino Avalanche, rescues. So, like, and we need a summertime activity.
Producer Dave
00:19:53.310 - 00:20:02.910
Somebody looked up and said, that is a very competitive, highly nuanced, low margin game. Me too. There's room for us. There's totally room.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:03.070 - 00:20:11.710
We're based in the mountains. What other things sports are in the mountains? Biking. Mountain biking. I love it. Let's do it.
Colin True
00:20:11.710 - 00:20:20.230
And that's. And I. Sorry. Ortovox. Like, if there's anybody there who wants to reach out, please send us an email. Myrockfight gmail.com would love to hear about it.
But this is.
Producer Dave
00:20:20.230 - 00:20:21.390
You get response time.
Colin True
00:20:21.470 - 00:21:01.840
I'm sure we'll hear. But it is. We've all sat in these rooms and it's like, so that's where I immediately put myself when I'm read.
This is like, what was the barrier to entry here of like, this is a good idea. I mean, because it's also, it's the same thing we've talked about in a million other, you know, examples. Entering a new category.
It's hard, especially cycling, when you have everything from people, people wearing goodwill to stuff that's on REI outlet or Amazon for 10 bucks to the high end stuff. It's so saturated. How do you pull it off? I don't know. Can we think of anyone who has pulled it off in like a meaningful way?
Like expanded into an adjacent category where there may be some. There's a fit. Who is it?
Eoin Comerford
00:21:02.320 - 00:21:05.680
Well, I'm sure there are lots of examples. I just can't think of any right now.
Producer Dave
00:21:08.560 - 00:21:09.040
Nike.
Colin True
00:21:09.360 - 00:21:26.460
Listen, Ortabox, we're having a little fun at your expense. You're not the first to go through this. You're not the last brand to go through this as well. We do get it.
I mean, you know, when you're looking at, you know, the budget and the forecast and there's a big gap in the summer months, you got to do something. But, you know, let's see how it all shakes out here, I guess.
Producer Dave
00:21:26.860 - 00:21:32.860
Hey, and honestly too, we haven't even seen the product. Haven't even seen it. Have no idea. You know, maybe there's something.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:33.180 - 00:21:43.260
Exactly. And the other option for why this was built, it's was because the CEO, whoever the heck that is, is an avid mountain biker.
And it was just like, you know what?
Colin True
00:21:43.340 - 00:21:44.020
Oh, that could.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:44.020 - 00:21:47.500
Yeah, I want. Guys, make me some mountain biking stuff.
Colin True
00:21:47.500 - 00:21:48.700
I want a mountain bike.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:48.700 - 00:21:50.220
It's all about me, right? Yes.
Colin True
00:21:50.380 - 00:22:33.010
Okay, last story for the lightning round and this one actually will help us segue into our main topic for the day because per SGB, per CISO, per Owens LinkedIn page. Last week, Helen of Troy, owner of brands like Osprey and Hydro flask, experienced a 10.3% decline during their fiscal first quarter.
Two key contributors were cited for the decline softer demand in the insulated drinkware category, namely Hydro Flask was the brand you're thinking of there. And cancellation of orders due to. Wait for it, higher tariffs. So we're going to be getting into the latest tariff news in a minute, but for this one.
Owen, how much do you think is this market and trends. Is this a shift in the market and trends or is this truly more about the tariffs?
Eoin Comerford
00:22:33.410 - 00:22:59.440
No, I think this is more about the Hydrofasc brand personally.
And yeah, there's a lot going on here and certainly there was some pull forward of sales into the prior quarter because people wanted to get ahead of the tariffs. Yes, those things are happening. But they also indicated the expectation that future softness was going to be in the shrinkware category.
So that tells you this is not just some bump in the road, that they really see some challenges with the hydrofosk brand itself.
Colin True
00:23:00.720 - 00:23:13.920
So Your post on LinkedIn also referenced Helena Troia taking Hydrofosk to Costco in a big way, which seems to have been, to your point, what you just said, potentially a damaging brand move. What are the dots you're connecting between the Costco program and what you're hearing about these earnings?
Eoin Comerford
00:23:15.210 - 00:24:32.200
First of all, the Costco program, which came out I think late last year at the time was a bit of a Hail Mary. In other words, sales were already, if not stagnating, dropping within their core sports and outdoor category.
And so I think the then CEO said, shit, we need to juice these numbers. A big PO from Costco, that'll do the trick. And it did. It propped those things up.
But I think it absolutely torpedoed the brand in specialty outdoor because the offer, just so you know, the offer within Costco, it was an essentials hydration package which basically took the top two SKUs in the Hydro Flask catalog, put them together for basically for over 40% below the MSRP of those individual items, and they actually added in a second little piece in there too. Really, it was basically 50% off or wholesale. Right.
So you ask an outdoor specialty retailer and I talked to a few and they were like, f this, we have so many options when it comes to hydration brands right now.
Colin True
00:24:32.760 - 00:24:33.400
Exactly.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:33.400 - 00:25:02.530
There are so many other ones that are not discounting the hell out of the product on their own website. They're not selling into Costco, they're not selling into Target and Fred Meyer and every other place.
So we're going to go there, we're going to, we're going to stick with Yeti, who is really stuck, you know, stuck with their, with their pricing.
We're going to, we're going to bring in Awala and you know, some of these other brands that are really leaning in and, you know, driving new demand and sorry, sorry, Hydro Flask, we're going to cut our orders.
Colin True
00:25:02.930 - 00:25:56.610
We're like, we're what, two cycles of the new of the IT hydration brand past Hydro Flask at this point.
So is this more probably of the parent company not willing to sort of accept the fact that it's getting shrinking and like, well, we have to continue to grow at all costs when probably reality would have been like, hey, let it. Let it fall back a little bit. Let it kind of. Which I understand there's implications of that.
But if you want to kind of reposition the brand for another shot at the title, which is kind of what seems like this, this, this piece of the market is. Right.
It's just this cyclical nature of like, here's the ascendant brand and then it's hot for a little while, maybe a little longer than the others, maybe a little shorter than the others, and then it falls off and then here comes the next one right behind it. And it's just kind of. That's the way it's been almost since nalgene in the 90s, right. It's kind of maybe gaining some velocity.
But that seems to be how this always shakes out in the hydration market. I wonder if there's just a little patience here is what they probably should have taken as opposed to let's blow it up at Costco.
And now it's like now they've shot.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:56.610 - 00:26:52.650
Themselves in the foot, it feels like the drinkware craze cycle is actually getting higher and shorter. Right. Because if you think about. Go back to clean canteen or mirror, if you remember those guys or that whole deal. And then we get into yeti.
And YETI has been at a pretty flat level for quite a while. They were more of a slow build than a big. Initially they had a big pop, but then they've maintained.
But then you had the hydro flask bump and then you had. Was Stanley next? I'm not even sure if anyone came in between there, but that's of kind gun up and come down.
I mean they're, they're going to be feeling pain in the next couple of years. So. But at what point do people just have too many fucking water bottles? I mean, I. We have a whole.
We have a whole like upper cabinet in our kitchen same that's full of these fucking things. I mean, it's like, come on, how many, how many can you possibly use?
Producer Dave
00:26:53.290 - 00:27:49.710
But that. But that's why I think the issue with, with hydroflies is less.
I think it's less even Costco, frankly, it has all to do with brand and it is now an accessory fashion item. And so it's. You got the consumer's getting younger because it becomes a middle school, high school type of signifier.
And it's cheap, it's less expensive than a smartphone in terms to signify your status. So Oswala is like the next one that's kind of coming into here. And my big thing with Hydro Flask is they've run the same playbook for how long?
And they're surprised that it's not working. That's the thing. If you look at the imaging that they create, the fact that they brought color to the market is great, but everybody does that.
That's no longer a position that's sustainable. So how are you going to leverage that but still bring something new?
I mean, it just, it looks like a tired, classic outdoor brand that's a little, little better than that because they, they do get their fashion play for sure, but yeah, they're just being left behind.
Colin True
00:27:49.710 - 00:28:12.650
Well, the Costco thing's interesting too, right? Because when we were at Polar Tech, we made a line of Polartech branded fleece Kirkland Polartech branded fleece pullovers.
And the whole justification there is because we knew that was gonna upset some brand partners. This is over a decade down at this point. But was the, it's easy to get sucked in by the Costco consumer, right?
They're like, well, and you look at these sort of the club stores, right? It's like, well, that.
Producer Dave
00:28:12.650 - 00:28:13.970
Boy, were we silly.
Colin True
00:28:13.970 - 00:28:42.260
Yes, we were. Didn't work. Spoiler alert. Did not work. But it was a, you look at, oh, they have a higher household income and look at the cars that they drive.
And you're like, oh, that's a elevated consumer who would really appreciate our product being in Costco. And I think that's why you continue to see outdoor brands dabbling in Costco at all times.
They get sucked in by that, you know, that is sort of as an option to expand your brand. And maybe, I don't know, maybe it's like those pos become pretty valuable even if your margins suck.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:42.500 - 00:29:29.070
But the problem is twofold. One is you're introducing that customer to your brand at a discount, which is never a good idea.
But the second thing is, by the very nature of the treasure hunt merchandising approach that Costco takes, it's not a long term relationship, right? They, they want brands to come and go so that there's always newness, there's always something, some new deal to find, right?
If they can get whatever the brand is of jacket or thing there all the time, it's, then it's, it's not Great for the brand, it's not great for Costco and so it just doesn't happen. So it's this short.
It's, it's, it's crazy to me that brands do this because it's this such a short term focus in terms of some sales for long term brand damage and it just doesn't make sense to me.
Producer Dave
00:29:29.870 - 00:29:57.410
See, I think if you use it exactly the way you just outlined there as a brand, if you strategize that and create a kind of mapping of that kind of surprise and delight as a strategy, like look, once a year or twice a year, we're going to drop a limited number in this channel.
I think that you can still, I just, I think the distribution matters less if you're a brand that's relevant and desirable and know who your customer is.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:57.570 - 00:30:04.770
I guess that's why go into peace a discount. If you're, if you're relevant and desirable, why go into a discount channel?
Producer Dave
00:30:05.010 - 00:30:46.460
Because I don't think everyone, I think, I think, I still think Costco has a place for, if you're looking for new customer acquisition, I think there's a place for it. But like you said, it's not a long term, it's not a sustained. You can't put them into your retailer list on your website.
It's just, it's, you're meeting your customer where they are and you're surprising them.
So if I had a limit, if I had a special makeup and I had some limited run and I could drop that there for a month, then I'm gone and I'm not there for another what, 12, 18 months then okay. To me that's just using it, using it for your own purpose versus like what you said just as a discount sales.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:47.870 - 00:30:52.590
The key word there was special makeup because you cannot put in line product in there. That just kills everybody.
Producer Dave
00:30:52.670 - 00:30:53.310
Yeah, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:53.630 - 00:31:47.990
The other thing I would say about the strategy that they mentioned about Costco, the fact that millennials and those sorts of folks that are now buying into Stanley and other places are shopping at the Costcos of the world and the targets of the world. I don't think it was a crazy idea. It's just, it was the Costco ness of it. If you had stopped with Target, I think you would have been fine.
I mean look at Yeti. Yeti went everywhere. They were in a in there was a distribution element that they wouldn't touch.
But the requirement was any of those distribution points had to be full price.
And if a single one of them said no, no, no, we want to go into AECO, but we're going to offer your 20% off your whatever the Yeti cup was, they were done. So I think it's being selective about places that will sell you at full price is better than being discriminating but discounted for sure.
Producer Dave
00:31:48.070 - 00:31:52.310
The discriminating discounter. I think we've got a new retail channel.
Colin True
00:31:52.870 - 00:31:56.870
All right, today's really slow lightning round on the rock fight was brought to you by Lem Shoes.
Producer Dave
00:31:58.470 - 00:32:00.230
That was more, that was more Rolling.
Colin True
00:32:00.310 - 00:33:32.110
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All right, today's main topic is presented by Oboz, the pride of Bozeman, Montana, who is also the cupid to the outdoor world. And we've had some. Oh well, I should announce it. Tariff Watch 2025.
We've had some updates when it comes to tariffs and how those may impact the outdoor industry. The July 8 deadline has come and gone and there have been developments.
But first there was the news that came out on July 2 that a new trade deal has been struck with Vietnam. The big picture details.
There is a 20% tariff on goods coming into the US from Vietnam, 0% tariff on goods entering Vietnam from the US as well as a 40% tariff on trans shipments through Vietnam from a third party.
Then on July 7, the Trump administration sent letters to 14 countries detailing a variety of tariffs that will be imposed on those countries starting August 1st.
Lastly, we're recording this on July 11th and it was just announced that Canada would be getting a 35% tariff because of all that illegal fentanyl that is just crossing the northern border by the truckload, apparently. So, Owen, we're back with tariffs. What are the takeaways here? Should we start with the Vietnam deal?
Eoin Comerford
00:33:32.350 - 00:34:24.720
Sure. Yes.
I think what the Vietnam deal really shows here, that all of this tariff bluster is really about countering China and has nothing to do with all of these trade imbalance conversations that were supposedly the rationale for this. Right. Because when you look at it like, oh boy, we got this access to the Vietnamese Market Trump. I actually, I call this.
If you want to go back, call Trump.
Well, no, if you want to go back and listen to the podcast or remember months ago when we were talking about this deal, I called the fact that one of the, one of the rationales that they would say is that it was going to give access to the Vietnamese market for US Autos. Right, sure. As Trump is crowing about the fact that now US SUVs will have zero turn off. That's right.
Colin True
00:34:24.880 - 00:34:32.110
I think we joked about the idea of an SUV ripping around Vietnam. A US Made SUV in Vietnam, if.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:32.110 - 00:36:09.860
You were in a US suv, like take a Cadillac Escalade and try to get one block through Hanoi, you would never make it. Either you would never make it or you would hill 60 mopedders in the process. I mean, it's just sounds pretty American actually.
You know, it is the American way. So that's all complete bullshit. The key here is the transshipment piece, right. Which is to say this is all about containing China.
And there's the potential actually that from somewhat. Because again, as with all these things, it isn't a real agreement because there's actually no detail.
It's all just frameworks and comments and statements and bullshit. Right. But this whole transshipment thing, nobody knows what it actually really means.
Theoretically what it would say is that you can't just send a product from China through Vietnam, repackage it and ship it on and get the only 20% tariff. Now you'd paid 40% on that. It has to be substantially transformed. What that is going to mean in this case, nobody knows.
So for example, if you are an outdoor gear company who's having their apparel made there and it's using Chinese made fabrics, Chinese made trims being put together on Chinese machinery in a factory owned by Chinese people, is that enough to be considered substantially transformed? I think most people would say yeah, hopefully, but we really don't know what.
Colin True
00:36:09.860 - 00:36:20.660
About the percent itself? Right. So they said 20% is what it's going to land on.
I mean, I know that that's kind of maybe what we thought it was going to be or we were hoping for 10%. Like what was the. Where were we? The numbers have been around.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:20.740 - 00:37:34.180
Yeah, I take us through that.
Almost everybody that was going through their calculus for the back half of the year and the price increases that they were planning were planning for the 10%. They thought that Vietnam was bending over backwards. They were rushing the approval of the development of a major Trump golf course expansion.
They were doing everything that they could to jump through hoops for this administration. So they thought the 10% was going to be the number. So the 20% is actually kind of bad news, really. And that's a chunk. And 20% is a lot.
Because before this, right, the only tariffs in place primarily would have been just the Regular MFN or HS code tariffs, which varied based upon the category from 0 to 30 plus percent or what have you. So in some cases, you could have been paying zero, like if you were a camping stove, for example, and now you're paying 20%. So that's a lot.
And for most of the apparel folks, again, if you're in the footwear categories, and there's lots of different HS codes based upon the type of footwear, but you might have been at 18 or 20%, and now you're at basically 40%. So, yeah, it's a big deal.
Colin True
00:37:34.260 - 00:37:42.600
What about the other countries? Is this just all more Trump chaos? I mean, is it just more him trying to stir the pot? What are you seeing there?
Eoin Comerford
00:37:42.840 - 00:39:41.250
Well, I mean, ultimately, again, you feel for some of these countries, look at South Korea, okay, so supposedly we're going to hit them with this 25% tariff for trade imbalances. Well, we actually have a free trade agreement with South Korea.
So South Korea has zero percent tariffs today on imports from the US into their market share. Okay, so what more can they give in terms of addressing the supposed trade imbalance?
I mean, they can, I guess they can promise to buy more U.S. agriculture goods or Boeing aircraft or what have you, but realistically, there's not a lot they can do other than kowtow to Trump in some way about China.
So the same kind of transshipment deal, or them placing tariffs themselves on imports from China into their own country, which would be kind of wild, but these are the kinds of conversations that are going on. I think a lot of the world is saying, okay, what the fuck do you actually want? Right? What do you want? And we'll see if it's doable.
But we've come to you with all of these things, we've laid these things at your feet that supposedly address what you said this was about, which was a trade imbalance. But that doesn't seem to be enough. So tell us what you want.
And now the latest thing is in the last couple of days, Trump says, oh, we're going to put a 50% tariff on Brazil because he doesn't like the way that they're treating his buddy Bonsonaro, who was another fascist who basically said that who tried to have a coup and he doesn't like that he's being charged with that. So now it's like, like it's got nothing to do with trade.
That's purely us trying to meddle in the politics of another country and using tariffs as a cudgel.
So at this point, the consumer, the manufacturers, the countries, we're all just caught in the middle of this who the hell knows what's going to happen scenario.
Producer Dave
00:39:41.810 - 00:39:47.410
Are you suggesting that there is not a deeply reasoned strategy behind all of this?
Eoin Comerford
00:39:47.890 - 00:39:49.490
Yes, Dave, that is expensive.
Colin True
00:39:50.370 - 00:39:52.290
Shocking news here on the rock fight.
Producer Dave
00:39:52.610 - 00:39:56.110
I'm sorry. Just wanted to clear that up.
Colin True
00:39:56.110 - 00:41:45.770
All right. I was thinking.
So I want to tie together the tariff conversation with some of the, just the past couple of conversations that we, the Monday boys, There it is. Which had been focused on outdoor sports going mainstream as well as the casual participation versus hardcore participation.
I was thinking about this and the impact of the tariffs and this conversation of the hardcore and the mainstream as I was hiking up Mount Baldy a week ago, popular hike east of LA. It was on July 4th. It was a really busy day.
And the cool thing about this is I got to observe a real cross section of outdoor participants on a relatively robust hike. There were beginners there who weren't even going to try for the summit. There were folks there who were going to run the whole thing.
And if you looked at the gear choices of that range of hikers, it was like looking at a geological map of the outdoor industry.
The vast majority of people were up there, were still using the tech that was invented in the 70s and 80s and then a smaller percentage had more modern, sophisticated equipment. And I think one of the real risks, and we probably talked a little bit about this or at least referred to it in the past in this conversation.
But one of the real risks for our industry on this whole tariff situation is the small brands are our innovators. Everyone wants to give flowers to the big brands for continuing to be innovative with their products. But we know and we talk about it.
We talk about it a lot here. The upstarts are who push product innovation forward.
And it's not just possible, but likely that we're going to crush our innovation engine, AKA the folks who won't be able to afford the increase in cost from the tariffs and continue to operate their businesses.
The longer this takes to play out, which sets back our entire industry, the trillion dollar outdoor economy and the billion dollar human powered outdoor industry. So Owen, when you consider the average timeline to take a brand from concept to market to then large scale adoption.
What's the risk to the industry if our smaller emerging brands are snuffed out?
Eoin Comerford
00:41:45.770 - 00:43:32.240
I don't think I'm being overly hyperbolic here.
If I say that we could potentially lose a whole generation of emerging outdoor brands, right, because they were already struggling with margins, they don't have the volume or the moqs to move out of China or to move around and to move to other countries of origin depending upon what the current whim of the administration is. And their funding sources are getting cut off because everyone who used to invest in this segment is going, whoa, we don't know what's going on here.
Everybody's spooked, right? So just at the time they need money, they can't get it. So.
So with some of these brands, it's literally a potential life and death situation for some of them and it's crushing to see what's happening. And these brands, not only are they the innovation engine of our industry, they're also the diversity engine of our industry.
A lot of these brands, female led, bipoc led, et cetera, those leaders are not in the big brands today in many cases, although we're seeing some good, some good progress there. But in terms of actual founders, we're talking, yes, female founders, bipoc founders, et cetera.
If we want to see this industry truly become diverse, inclusive, we need these brands to survive.
The other thing I would say is these brands are also in many cases the sustainability engines of our industry because a lot of these brands have been built by founders who built sustainability into the core of what they're doing. Not just as an add on or as an adjunct or a nice to have over here. It's like, no, no, no. It was why they did what they're doing.
And so all three of those elements I think are potentially under attack here. If we don't help to support these brands.
Colin True
00:43:33.600 - 00:43:53.140
Dave, the brand that is the larger outdoor industry, right?
If you got to consider the industry itself as a brand, and we know it has this sort of see a sameness problem that we actually were just joking about earlier in this episode. To a certain degree, there's a lot of stuff that looks like the other stuff that, that other people make.
How would fewer small brands exacerbate that issue and how our industry is perceived or viewed?
Producer Dave
00:43:53.300 - 00:44:07.380
Well, okay, I got a couple, couple thoughts here real quick. Is a, the, the sea of sameness, of course it's going to exacerbate that problem.
Like large brands aren't, aren't known for their willingness to try new things and push boundaries on.
Colin True
00:44:07.380 - 00:44:09.300
But we're using the new version of Gore Tex.
Producer Dave
00:44:10.420 - 00:44:14.820
Right? Right. And it's my, my black is slightly different.
Colin True
00:44:14.820 - 00:44:17.300
Have you seen the new black shell.
Producer Dave
00:44:17.300 - 00:44:19.650
With the new Gore Tex very close to the Navy?
Eoin Comerford
00:44:20.360 - 00:44:20.600
No.
Producer Dave
00:44:22.200 - 00:45:56.920
Oh boy. So this goes. This then ties back to the innovation piece for sure.
If we want this to continue, the industry big brand needs to figure out then how it is going to make it viable for these brands to exist in an onshore reality. I don't think you can be a sustainable brand truly if you're making things across the ocean and sending them on big ships and living in containers.
The reality of our commercial system. But that is such a massive strain that it's, you know, you talk about your footprint.
I can change out all my materials in my product and still have a massive footprint because it sits in a container ship for two months. Well, even longer now. But so how do we incentivize, subsidize?
You know, again if this was a strategic plan by our government to actually help production move, then that's one thing. But the fact that there's just nothing that goes along with this idiot IT number Right. In terms of a tariff.
So if, if there was that type of thinking then we could actually see how can we preserve the true innovation drivers and, and also bring new knowledge, skills, things like that onshore to, to be able to help them. But without that it is just a hollowing out. Right. That's going to make fewer choices. It's going to create more monopoly.
And like I think Owen is spot on is like, like we're going to lose a decade or more in terms of progress that we've made.
Colin True
00:45:56.920 - 00:46:10.640
Anyone who's new and thriving or you know, on the right track, they're going to get crushed.
And even if somebody wants to take their place to your point Dave and is now like I'll do it here in the U.S. well okay, what's the timeline for that to get to replace the one that just got crushed?
Producer Dave
00:46:11.680 - 00:46:13.760
It just means more T shirt brands, Colin.
Colin True
00:46:13.760 - 00:46:16.240
Just wow, we can't have enough of those. Right. So.
Producer Dave
00:46:17.990 - 00:46:23.190
Right, right. I still have room on my TikTok feed for at least 12 more an hour.
Colin True
00:46:23.590 - 00:46:30.870
Oh and you posted about this this past week on LinkedIn, offered some suggestions about what you could you think people should do. Like what was some of your advice?
Eoin Comerford
00:46:31.910 - 00:48:35.420
Well, I, I broke it down by the different categories of folks and everybody can really have a part here. Consumers look for emerging brands, support them, buy their product, maybe be Willing to pay full price. I don't know.
You can even actually more and more now support your favorite brands through equity fundraising platforms like We Funder, Wild Rye, Headless Choice. Both have great campaigns that you could get onto. Right now, retailers add new brands and don't just do it philanthropically.
It's great for your store. Consumers love to see new stuff. It brings them back even if they're not going to buy that brand. Right. It's the jewelry of the store.
It's going to bring people in, it's going to drive interest. And yeah, maybe they'll buy that North Face Jack at the end of the day, but by golly, they'll look at that and it's new, it's exciting, it's color.
So do that for yourself as well as the industry. Brands themselves look to help each other collaborate.
Whether that's just a joint contest email where you're sharing each other's lists on a contest to drive people do that or actually do collabs, actually build product together. Big brands help the little guys and vice versa because they can help you look cool, quite frankly, and give you innovation.
I think I talked about the show about nara, for example, and using their go fly technology with Burton. Right.
I mean that for Burton, that's a coup because Burton actually then looks cool and looks like they're actually listening to their female customers and thinking about their needs on the hill. And then my final group is sales reps. Right, Sales reps. You know what? Having emerging brands probably doesn't make a ton of financial sense.
So don't do it because of the dollars and cents and the commission check. Do it for the betterment of the industry and for giving back to the industry that's given to you.
And at the end of the day, it'll make everything better for you, for your business, for the other brands that you represent. And you never know that brand that you are picking up, that's an emerging brand that you're mentoring.
They may be the next big thing and you're in on the ground floor, have it.
Colin True
00:48:35.420 - 00:49:15.810
You know one thing, when I was a sales manager, I would tell, because it was with an emerging brand, I would tell folks like, hey, if at any point, like you're taking on our line and it's not working for you, then just drop us. It's just, I'm not looking for you to, to champion a line that's not working for you.
So to flip it around and say, hey, we have a seasonal spot and we're going to try an Emerging brand. And then if it goes well, then great, maybe it's a try.
But just be honest and try new things and be like, hey, we'll take you out of the bag every time we take out our A list brand out of the bag and we'll see how it goes. And if we see the upside, great. But if not, hey, we might move on to somebody else. I mean, that's not the perfect situation for some of these brands.
But I'll tell you what, I think a lot of folks would take that seasonal risk of being represented by your agency.
Producer Dave
00:49:16.600 - 00:49:17.560
A spot at the table.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:17.560 - 00:49:18.120
100%.
Producer Dave
00:49:18.440 - 00:49:19.800
I think that's super important.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:20.200 - 00:50:10.920
Exactly. Just. Just Right. Be honest. Be honest. If the brand isn't.
Isn't giving you what you need to sell, in which, I mean, a lot of these brands need education and mentoring just in terms of what a wholesale program is. Right. And if you take them on as part of that, take on the fact that you're going to help them to become a better wholesale brand.
And, and if they don't help or if they're not, if it's not working for you, you know. Yeah. Move on. And I say the same to brands, by the way. If it's not working after a season, chances are you're not making it out of the bag.
And be willing to cut bait and move on because. Yeah. And find rep companies that are excited for your brand.
One piece of advice I have for brands is if a rep company, basically, if they make you feel like they're doing you a favor by taking on your brand, run, don't walk from that relationship because that will never, ever work.
Colin True
00:50:12.270 - 00:50:23.150
And you'll spend at least three seasons thinking that they're. And then you'll start to say, like, maybe we shouldn't be working with these guys.
And it'll be another season before you finally get, you know, move on to somebody else. That's the way this always goes.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:23.150 - 00:50:23.630
Yep.
Colin True
00:50:24.190 - 00:50:40.040
All right. Today's episode of the Rock Fight was presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking.
And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including the following. Number one, where else can you sweat this much and feel proud of it? I was thinking of you, Owen.
It's gotta be at the height of humidity right now where you live.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:40.120 - 00:50:42.280
It's getting a little sticky, I won't lie.
Colin True
00:50:44.440 - 00:50:47.000
How many heat domes have you had this summer? Just one. Just the one.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:47.080 - 00:50:51.480
Just the one. But, you know, I am on a lake, Colin. I can Just dive right in.
Colin True
00:50:53.720 - 00:51:03.620
Number two, you go hiking to escape your inbox. Potentially your in laws. Anybody have that problem? This feels like a 1980s sitcom problem, frankly.
Like said, I. I don't know if this is really a thing anymore.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:04.100 - 00:51:05.860
In laws. I think they're still a thing.
Colin True
00:51:06.820 - 00:51:17.980
Well, technically they are a thing, but, you know, escaping them. Right. Number three, blisters. Well, they build character. Dave, do you have an opinion on character building blisters?
Producer Dave
00:51:17.980 - 00:51:23.380
Clearly they don't. Clearly. With the right pair of socks to go with those shoes and boots.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:23.540 - 00:51:27.720
Not that you have to worry about blisters in your oboe's catabana collection.
Colin True
00:51:28.190 - 00:52:04.170
Well, that's true, because likely you won't be getting any blisters in your new oboe's because hiking means the katabatic lt. The katabatic has quickly become an oboe's favorite. And the LT takes the katabatic collection to a whole new level.
With a lighter package and additional environmentally friendly materials. From fast packing to day hiking, the katabatic LT is your new shoe of choice.
And this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana, Certified B Corp. 6 millimeter million tree planter and inhabitant of the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:04.490 - 00:52:15.690
So is the corollary to number three, that blisters build character. But you don't get blisters with Oboz. Therefore Oboz doesn't build character.
Colin True
00:52:16.170 - 00:52:16.770
Oh, no.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:16.770 - 00:52:17.370
Oh, no.
Colin True
00:52:20.180 - 00:52:22.620
But maybe you have all the character you need if you're choosing Oboz.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:22.620 - 00:52:26.660
Ah, there it is. You're already at such a high level of character.
Colin True
00:52:27.460 - 00:52:29.140
Your taste, your characters.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:29.460 - 00:52:31.140
Exactly. You're right. Yes.
Producer Dave
00:52:31.700 - 00:52:33.300
You've been through that gauntlet.
Colin True
00:52:33.460 - 00:52:38.020
Dave. Could the character building blisters be like a comic strip and the Rock Fight newsletter?
Producer Dave
00:52:39.940 - 00:52:50.450
I just refuse to acknowledge their existence, Colin. They're just an unnecessary burden. Right? I mean. I mean, we eradicated smallpox. There's no reason why we should be living with.
Colin True
00:52:50.770 - 00:52:52.290
Give our government time. We'll bring it back.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:52.290 - 00:52:55.010
We eradicated measles too, but hey, yeah.
Colin True
00:52:56.210 - 00:52:58.050
I think smallpox is next on the list.
Producer Dave
00:52:58.610 - 00:53:12.090
Okay, does that mean that we're about to experience an anti sock movement? Like, it's just there are people that are.
Their conspiracy about socks and you know, look, you know how I feel about big sock, and I think that we're all under their.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:12.090 - 00:53:14.010
Have we eradicated small socks under their toe?
Producer Dave
00:53:14.010 - 00:53:14.810
So to speak. Speak.
Chris DeMakes
00:53:15.370 - 00:53:17.530
It's time for a party Shot.
Colin True
00:53:19.130 - 00:53:24.050
All right, for the parting shot today, producer Dave, you're up to the plate. You've got, you got the parting shot.
Producer Dave
00:53:24.050 - 00:55:23.510
What do you got, Colin? Today's party shot. We're going to go, we're going to go with the positive. We're going to go the high road. This is, we're not talking to somebody.
The parting high five. Right. I just want to call out HOKA dropped just recently. They're kind of new creative.
I don't know if it's a campaign or if it's just a, a brand video piece, but it's called Together We, We Fly Higher.
It's about kind of the shift from the runner to the people who support them during their kind of their journey, whether it be training or race day or all that. But what I just want to point out from it is it is. And Colin, it's right up my alley. It's essentially a two minute music video.
The film making is super intimate. I mean it has this sense of uber reality, which there is.
But I, you know, good filmmaking, especially in kind of sp sports and active activities is a spontaneity is a planned event. Right. So how do you get that kind of sense of intimacy and reality? They totally achieved it.
They put a Bob Dylan track, Shelter from the Storm to give it that kind of, just that kind of gravity to it and kind of connect the dots. I think it's just well done. It's just storytelling of what you're looking for.
It's easily consumable and I just, I think they hit it out of the park and they're, you know, teaming. The agency behind that is called Anomaly. They are a big budget, big, you know, Super Bowl, Bud Light, Google, Uber, that type of agency.
So this is really step up for hoka.
And I'm usually not a big fan of the work that comes out of, you know, agencies like this, but they brought in Super Prime Films so their production company, the director Lauren Dennis just nailed it. And I just, I think it's cool to see so shout out to the folks that put that together.
It's just, it's a great two minutes of your day to feel good and like I said, just drop into this world that is kind of the competitive runner and the people that make that happen.
Colin True
00:55:23.510 - 00:55:30.430
I think this is great because no one said anything positive about HOKA for the last 30 seconds. So I'm glad you're doing this. You know, it's been a minute since someone.
Producer Dave
00:55:30.670 - 00:55:37.790
You could be a fan, right? Yeah. What it is, it's really an ode to running. And it's really. It's pushing the sport for sure.
Colin True
00:55:37.790 - 00:55:40.190
Oh, and I just sent you the link. Do you want to. Do you want to watch it?
Eoin Comerford
00:55:40.350 - 00:55:50.430
That's right. I was watching it now. Yeah. It's cool though. It does remind me of what's his boy.
Colin True
00:55:50.430 - 00:55:51.110
Scott Jerrick.
Eoin Comerford
00:55:51.110 - 00:56:06.270
Yes, Scott Jerich. And all of his posts are about the fact that he can't get anybody to come out on these, you know, ultra runs and basically man, his be his crew.
Right. And so this is like, that's my favorite thing.
Colin True
00:56:06.270 - 00:56:31.010
I've given up Ultra. Ultra running to crew. Crew is way more fun than running the actual race. I love crewing ultras. They're super fun to crew. But.
But yeah, but it is funny that you're right. That is definitely. There's definitely. I think that's a real thing. I'm not a big fan of the Dylan track in this, I'll admit.
I'll take a little side shot. I feel like. I don't know. I don't know if that was the right fit of music, but I know Dave's gonna disagree.
I see the stain on his face across through the zoom call look.
Producer Dave
00:56:31.010 - 00:56:52.070
It's multi generational. I think sonically too, the tone that it brings is right. The acousticness of it and the kind of rawness I think is what they're.
You could have put a lot of different tracks to this and still would have been cool. I mean, the. The. The footage is just fantastic and the story that comes from the footage shines through. So you could run this five different ways.
Yeah. Five different.
Colin True
00:56:52.070 - 00:56:56.630
Bob Dylan sellout. Selling the deckers. Just Bob Dylan. What are you doing?
Producer Dave
00:56:57.190 - 00:57:00.910
Hey, dude, if you got the budget, man, you can go right to the. Right to the catalog.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:00.910 - 00:57:04.230
It's actually the. The. The Chalamet version of the song. So.
Colin True
00:57:04.870 - 00:57:06.590
Yeah, actually was it.
Producer Dave
00:57:08.590 - 00:57:09.190
No, but that.
Colin True
00:57:09.190 - 00:57:15.150
That would have been pretty funny actually. Timmy shows up at the end of the video. Buy your hokas.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:15.230 - 00:57:43.020
Yeah, no, I do think it's interesting looking at it because it is obviously trying to connect Hoka with the. Very much kind of the top of the mountain, if you think of it.
Ultra running aspect, which is much, much needed for this brand because I think it has been watered down by the mall walkers of the world. Right. And so certainly a move, I think in the right direction for them in terms of underpinning the brand with that sort of aspirational aspect.
Colin True
00:57:43.900 - 00:58:26.490
It is a good point. And we're turning the parting shot probably into what should have been A segment of the show. Right?
Because you think of the North Faces and the Nikes, who will continue to get grief from so many people, but are able to sort of maintain that authenticity at a certain spot while also serving the masses. And this is the next step for hoka, Right? Because they are the masses now. Right.
So that hike on Baldy, I saw more hokas than anything else last time I was at the airport. More hokas than anything else. And so for them to then kind of, you know, re. Ingratiate themselves with the. With the core.
The core running community is definitely the right step, but they easily could go the other direction if they want, right. And be more like, hey, we're the everyday walker for, you know, mom and pop. It's like, no, no, no. We are still the best for this activity.
Producer Dave
00:58:27.360 - 00:58:33.360
I just say you already wrote the parody of this spot where we just replace all of the ultrarunners with Maul Walkers.
Colin True
00:58:33.440 - 00:58:36.800
Same music, same color palette, the whole deal, right?
Producer Dave
00:58:36.800 - 00:58:38.960
Yeah, the whole thing. Right, Right. There you go.
Colin True
00:58:40.000 - 00:58:41.200
Pass in the Orange Julius.
Eoin Comerford
00:58:42.399 - 00:59:13.500
What I like about this, though, is the together aspect of it, which is. Cause it would have been one thing if it had just been ultrarunner out on the peak doing his or her thing by themselves, lone wolf kind of stuff.
But this is very much a relational story. How these people relate to other people who are helping them along the way, who are celebrating with them, who are part of this whole experience.
So that, to me, makes it that much better and more universal than just the single person on the mountain approach.
Producer Dave
00:59:13.980 - 00:59:14.540
Yep.
Colin True
00:59:14.540 - 00:59:20.100
Dave, when are we going to get the ANU version of this? Is that coming soon?
Producer Dave
00:59:20.100 - 00:59:22.260
Just keep waiting for that. Just keep waiting.
Colin True
00:59:22.260 - 00:59:23.020
I heard it's a super.
Eoin Comerford
00:59:23.020 - 00:59:23.700
It's the new shoe.
Colin True
00:59:23.700 - 00:59:24.580
It's the super shoe.
Producer Dave
00:59:24.580 - 00:59:25.980
It's the new super shoe.
Colin True
00:59:25.980 - 00:59:37.920
I have seen some social media ads for ANU that are actually pretty cool. The product looks good. I got to give them credit for that. But is it super? Little capes. See, they missed their opportunity. Superman's out.
Eoin Comerford
00:59:37.920 - 00:59:39.160
They should have, right?
Producer Dave
00:59:39.160 - 00:59:41.160
There you go. Super shoe.
Colin True
00:59:41.800 - 01:00:06.210
All right, that's the show. Hey, everybody. We want your emails, please, especially from the folks at Ortabox.
Send them to myrockfightmail.com TheRock Fight's a production of Rock Fight LLC. Today's episode was produced by producer David Karsad. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. For Owen Comerford, I'm Colin True.
Thanks for listening. And back once again as Krista makes to take us out with the rock Fight fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Producer Dave
01:00:06.370 - 01:00:06.810
Yeah.
Chris DeMakes
01:00:06.810 - 01:00:45.500
Rock fight. Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Where we speak our truth?
Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree? We talk about human powered outdoor activities? And big bites about topics that we find interesting? Like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews?
Ideas that aim for the head? This is where we speak our truth? This is where we speak our truth? Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight?
Colin True
01:00:45.900 - 01:00:46.880
Welcome to the rock?
Chris DeMakes
01:00:46.950 - 01:01:07.670
Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight?
Rock fight, Rock fight.
