5 Predictions For The Running Event, Dick's Assimilates Foot Locker & Is Resale Profitable?

It's an action packed episode of The Rock Fight as Colin, Eoin Comerford, Producer Dave are joined by Gear Abby herself, Shawnté Salabert to preview and offer their predictions for this week's edition of The Running Event & Switchback!

They also dig into Dick's Sporting Goods plans for Foot Locker and respond to a listener email about the profitablity of resale economics. Lastly it's the final interview recorded at GOA Connect in Kansas City last month as the Monday crew chats with Fjallraven CEO Nathan Dopp.

On The Docket!

• Is resale profitable? Becky from Tersus challenges the pod on resale profitability.

• Dick's/Foot Locker Update! What a $500–$750M of “pretax charges” actually means and why so much of Foot Locker’s inventory is getting liquidated.

• The Running Event Preview & Predictions: What the crew is excited for and what they think will happen at the show

• Fjallraven's Nathan Dopp: Our final GOA Connect interview!

Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.

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Episode Transcript:

Chris DeMakes

00:00:00.080 - 00:00:07.200

Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock fight.

Colin True

00:00:08.400 - 00:00:27.520

Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True, and joining me today, if I have one rule in life, that's anytime.

Producer Dave and Owen Comerford and I offer predictions for the running event. Then we have to be joined by Ghira Abbey herself. It's Chante Salibair.

Chris DeMakes

00:00:27.840 - 00:00:29.040

She's back on the Runway.

Shawnté Salabert

00:00:29.360 - 00:00:33.260

So glad to be here. Just to add a little flavor to the Brody. Thanks for having me, guys.

Eoin Comerford

00:00:33.340 - 00:00:35.540

Rodeo. Okay. No, Much needed.

Producer Dave

00:00:35.540 - 00:00:35.980

Yes.

Colin True

00:00:36.140 - 00:00:39.500

Listen, the outdoor industry has a reputation. We're just working to uphold it.

Shawnté Salabert

00:00:39.980 - 00:00:42.460

Just injecting some feminine mystique here, that's all.

Colin True

00:00:44.620 - 00:01:36.230

Well, today we have a couple of quick topics to hit on before the four of us preview the running event and Switchback, which is set to kick off 24 hours after this podcast comes out. Then stick around to the end of the episode for the final interview that we recorded at Goa Connect last month, this time with Fjall Ravens.

Nathan do. But before we get to any of that, some programming reminders. Let's start with what we're all doing this week.

Guys, are you ready to see the Rock Fight live two days from now? You can come see everyone you're listening to on this podcast.

That's me, Shantae, Producer Dave and the consigliere Owen Comerford will be at the running event. This Wednesday, December 3rd. We'll be doing a live taping of the Rock Fight in the training camp theater right by the switchback side of the event.

We're going to be joined on stage by a bunch of different guests. We're going to hear from Gear Abby, you're going to get producer Dave and the rest of our crew's assessment of of the booth situation.

Will code epoxy rebound from summer Switchback? We're going to find out.

Eoin Comerford

00:01:36.230 - 00:01:38.070

I think they will. I think they'll bring it.

Shawnté Salabert

00:01:38.310 - 00:01:39.230

I think they took a dog.

Colin True

00:01:39.230 - 00:01:40.070

I think we're in their heads.

Eoin Comerford

00:01:40.070 - 00:01:40.590

Yeah, they did.

Nathan Dopp

00:01:40.590 - 00:01:40.950

Yeah.

Colin True

00:01:42.070 - 00:02:05.210

So if you were at Switchback Spring, you know how much fun we're going to have. I hope to see anyone listening to this who's going to be at the running event, please come see the show.

And hey, guys, just because she'll be in San Antonio does not mean that you won't get a new episode of Gear Abbey this Thursday. So make sure you're following the Gear Abbey podcast. And lastly, we want to Hear from you. Email us@myrockfightmail.com, reach out on LinkedIn.

Search it up. It's Rock Fight over there. Go on Instagram or Rock Fight.

Nathan Dopp

00:02:05.210 - 00:02:05.530

Co.

Colin True

00:02:05.530 - 00:02:14.450

Send us a message. We want to hear from you. We have a.

Now that Shantae's here, we need to make sure she knows that we are aiming to outdraw the amount of emails we get here at the Rock Fight.

Shawnté Salabert

00:02:14.690 - 00:02:15.130

It's.

Eoin Comerford

00:02:15.130 - 00:02:16.170

We're losing battery.

Shawnté Salabert

00:02:16.170 - 00:02:18.930

GearAbbyMail.com is what Colin meant to say.

Colin True

00:02:20.370 - 00:02:28.090

Yeah, Gear Abbey is slaughtering us. After 15 episodes, we have like 400 plus rock fighting. You know, it's like, I just.

Shawnté Salabert

00:02:28.090 - 00:02:30.210

I love having pen pals. Keep writing to me, people.

Eoin Comerford

00:02:30.430 - 00:02:35.990

Well, maybe we need our own Q and A section, Colin, so we can, you know, take on Gear Abby. Wow.

Colin True

00:02:35.990 - 00:02:38.990

A Q and A section hosted by Gear Abby on the Rock Fight.

Eoin Comerford

00:02:38.990 - 00:02:39.390

No.

Shawnté Salabert

00:02:41.150 - 00:02:41.710

Yes.

Eoin Comerford

00:02:42.030 - 00:02:42.430

No.

Shawnté Salabert

00:02:42.590 - 00:02:43.870

The empire grows.

Colin True

00:02:43.870 - 00:02:48.110

The only one allowed to answer questions on the Rock Fight podcast network is Shantae Salovet.

Eoin Comerford

00:02:48.110 - 00:02:48.670

That's it.

Colin True

00:02:49.390 - 00:02:59.310

Speaking of listener mail, we do have a quick stop in the mailbag today, which we're. In lieu of a parting shot, where is presented by Garage Grown Gear. I forgot to write in some new products from Garage Grown Beer.

Producer Dave

00:02:59.390 - 00:02:59.830

Beer.

Colin True

00:02:59.830 - 00:03:00.710

Garage Grown Beer.

Shawnté Salabert

00:03:00.710 - 00:03:01.350

Is that their new product?

Colin True

00:03:01.350 - 00:03:02.180

Spin off brand for.

Eoin Comerford

00:03:02.410 - 00:03:02.930

What is the thing?

Chris DeMakes

00:03:02.930 - 00:03:03.410

New products?

Shawnté Salabert

00:03:03.410 - 00:03:07.050

It's ultralight. It's very aerated. You know, it's dehydrated.

Colin True

00:03:07.290 - 00:03:07.770

It's like.

Eoin Comerford

00:03:08.890 - 00:03:09.530

That's the thing.

Colin True

00:03:09.530 - 00:03:09.930

What's that?

Eoin Comerford

00:03:09.930 - 00:03:12.490

Dehydrated beer. That is the thing. Yeah.

Colin True

00:03:12.490 - 00:03:13.210

Oh, my God.

Eoin Comerford

00:03:13.210 - 00:03:13.530

Yeah.

Colin True

00:03:13.530 - 00:03:15.370

Right? Or is it just nips of beer?

Shawnté Salabert

00:03:16.090 - 00:03:20.730

Just in the little. Like in the little eyedropper. Ultralight things you can buy on grocery store.

Eoin Comerford

00:03:21.610 - 00:03:29.210

Shantae joins the pod. And already Colin is talking about nips. I mean, come on, is that my fault?

Colin True

00:03:29.210 - 00:03:31.530

Like alcohol nips. You know what I'm talking about.

Eoin Comerford

00:03:31.850 - 00:03:32.330

Sorry.

Colin True

00:03:34.150 - 00:03:35.430

Who's the filthy one now, Owen?

Shawnté Salabert

00:03:36.390 - 00:03:37.190

Finally, for once.

Colin True

00:03:37.190 - 00:04:18.340

All right. We received the following email from Becky in response to our conversation about the Patagonia impact report a few weeks back.

Becky apparently works for Tersys Solutions, whose CEO Peter Whitcomb, has appeared on the Rock Fight in the past. And Becky took some exception with something we said about the resale marketplace.

And she wrote in, I want to pick a bit of a fight as your Patagonia and Viori show. As on your Patagonia and Vori show, someone mentioned that resale isn't profitable. This is 100% not true.

We at Tersa Solutions have dozens of partners all turning a profit on their resale channels. Also, the data is in for 2026. Throughout multiple channels, resale is growing leaps and bounds over retail.

So, Owen, I think this is something in reference to what you said. Is that correct?

Eoin Comerford

00:04:18.980 - 00:06:18.060

Absolutely. And hey, listen, we love the resale channel. We're big fans of it here on the rock 5. It is growing by leaps and bounds. It is the future in many cases.

But I would also say it is, at least from my experience, hasn't been terribly profitable.

And the reason for that is just because consumers obviously expect a significantly lower price for the used items, but they're actually a lot more difficult to handle than new. Right. Because each one is a unit of one. And so each one has to be separately identified. Like you might not even know what it is. Right.

You say you have to identify it, inspect it, photograph it, describe it. So all of it is tricky.

And now obviously, the folks at Tersys, I'm sure, have done a great job putting together a whole process to do all that, but it's still a lot more work than just receiving a case of exactly the same thing. Right. So that's the first thing I would say.

The second thing is that if you look at the publicly traded companies like ThredUp and the RealReal, they've never been profitable. Now, yes, they're getting more profitable or closer to profitability, which is great.

And in some cases they're EBITDA positive, depending on the quarter. But bottom line, they're not making money in terms of brand stores.

You know, I think some will talk about profitability, but really they're not fully burdening those stores. So, for example, they're treating what they're.

They're treating the store credit or the gift card that they're paying the consumer for that product as a marketing expense. So that doesn't hit the profitability. Right. Or they're not talking about the marketing cost to drive the store.

So I think you can get to profitability if you count things a little bit differently. So, for example, if your online returns are helping to drive your used business, if you just write off that inventory, so it goes to zero.

So then again, the cost of the product is zero. And so, yes, then it's profitable. But if you really look at the overall thing, it is still.

I stand by the fact that it's tough to make money if you look at all the costs that go into it.

Colin True

00:06:18.140 - 00:06:31.000

Yeah, I think it's a scale thing. Right. I mean, so teresys.

And I think this is what Becky is referring to they are the partner with Geartrade to kind of handle the business for them, the cleaning, the repair, to make sure things are ready to sell. I believe they've partnered with Code Epoxy in the past.

Producer Dave

00:06:31.000 - 00:06:34.600

For those who don't know, they're partners with most of the biggest brands, yes.

Colin True

00:06:34.680 - 00:06:54.440

They are a incredibly important player in changing everything. That kind of what Owen is saying.

But we're still kind of in early days and frankly the conversations I'm going to pat ourselves on the back, these conversations are what needs to happen to bring more visibility to it and continue to grow. That in addition to all the little efforts of specialty retailers offering their, you know, closeout and secondhand parts of their stores as well.

Eoin Comerford

00:06:54.690 - 00:07:55.820

And I think the other part of the scale is having scale in terms of where the product is sold. So I think selling it on some subsection of the website for those brands typically doesn't actually move through or sell through the goods.

You have to really have the backup of a bigger platform like Geartrade specifically to Outdoor or Thredup for the wider platform.

And actually I think the new Codapaxi program through ThredUP is really interesting because they're clear out the closet program gives people Cotopaxi credit for anything that they send in. It isn't just Cotopaxi product and then it gets double exposed on Cotopaxi.

At least the Cotopaxi stuff's on Cotopaxi, but the rest of it is double exposed on Thredup. Right.

So it's reaching this much, much wider audience where you can get the sell through and then Cotopaxi is getting, you know, consumers who maybe bought something totally different getting a credit which obviously then they're going to use to buy a new product on Cotopaxi. So those are the kinds of programs where I think this all starts to work together and make make sense.

Colin True

00:07:56.850 - 00:08:27.840

Yeah, I think the Tersys Gear trade partnership, the Thredup code epoxy, like Dave and I caught some heat.

I think a little over a year ago we did an episode because there was this continuing trend of hey, we're a brand and now we have a resale section of our own website where we're reselling our own stuff. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's good. You weren't doing anything before, so good for you.

But it doesn't really tip the scales towards what we actually need with the, you know, just sheer volume of excess we have in the apparel marketplace here. So the, the brands partnering with the Tersis or a Thredup, that is a real meaningful step in the right direction here.

Producer Dave

00:08:27.840 - 00:09:01.500

I was going to add on to that.

I do think that it is a combination of these, of these scenarios but a brand agnostic program with tied to incentive is going to be the really much needed energy in the sector to move consumer behavior.

And so I think that like you said, just the fact that you can start to blend brand when it's talked about the return or the, you know, the resale is going to be really important to this and I think brands are starting to catch on to that, that they can't have their own little walled gardens when it comes to resale piece of this.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:02.060 - 00:09:02.460

Right?

Colin True

00:09:02.620 - 00:09:05.020

Yeah. See Becky, same team. We're on the same team here.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:05.660 - 00:09:06.300

That's right.

Producer Dave

00:09:06.380 - 00:09:20.300

I was going to nitpick her nitpick though and she said that 26, 2026 is already locked up, you know, and showing all of this growth. We haven't even gotten there yet. We're projecting, we're projecting. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Colin True

00:09:20.710 - 00:09:23.590

I know we don't want to embrace any positive news early.

Producer Dave

00:09:23.670 - 00:09:24.230

That's right.

Colin True

00:09:24.230 - 00:09:26.870

So we've had the carpet pulled out from under us way too often.

Producer Dave

00:09:27.590 - 00:09:30.190

Right. The second hand tariff is on its.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:30.190 - 00:09:31.950

Way in the predictions.

Colin True

00:09:31.950 - 00:09:35.910

The 2025 predictions morgue is littered with bad takes.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:36.470 - 00:09:40.190

Yeah, I don't know who you're talking about, Colin. Certainly no.

Colin True

00:09:40.190 - 00:09:40.870

No one on this.

Eoin Comerford

00:09:41.110 - 00:09:43.030

Certainly not my Sierra take. No.

Colin True

00:09:43.670 - 00:10:19.840

All right, well before we get into our preview of the running event, there was one news story we wanted to touch on. As it has become. As it has become clear that post their acquisition by Dick's Sporting Goods there are changes coming to Foot Locker.

So per SGB last week Chairman of Dick's EdStack said on Dick's quarterly earnings call that when it comes to Foot Locker, quote, we need to clean out the garage of underperforming assets, end quote.

Most notably, Dick's is expected to absorb pre tax charges between 500 million and $750 million as well as close a number of Foot Locker stores, the number of which has yet to be revealed. So Shantae, can you walk us through all this? You know you were. Oh no, Shanta, can you.

Shawnté Salabert

00:10:20.400 - 00:10:21.000

Right on that.

Colin True

00:10:21.000 - 00:10:28.960

Rose. Owen, can you break all this down for us? I mean what's with the pre tax charges?

That's something that was completely over my head about what that even is.

Eoin Comerford

00:10:28.960 - 00:11:02.900

Yeah. So basically, you know, they paid for all these assets, right.

Inventory, store equipment, yada yada that went on their balance sheet as part of this as part of the acquisition. So now that they're getting in there, looking at all these assets, they're like, eh, no, no, no. They're not really worth what we paid for them.

So we're going to write them down. So is just a balance sheet transaction. There's no cash impact to the business here at all. So it's kind of cleaning things up a little bit. Now did.

Was this a surprise to Dick's once they got under the covers? I don't know. You know, I was just going to.

Producer Dave

00:11:02.900 - 00:11:06.860

Ask you how much of this is poor due diligence versus just the natural order?

Colin True

00:11:06.860 - 00:11:07.660

That never happens.

Eoin Comerford

00:11:09.420 - 00:11:12.380

Speaking from experience, that never happens with these sorts of acquisitions.

Chris DeMakes

00:11:12.380 - 00:11:12.780

Never.

Eoin Comerford

00:11:13.980 - 00:12:01.960

But what I would say is I think it's a much needed cleanup. And listening to the earnings call, I mean Ed was in classic form. He's a very decisive guy.

Ed digs in and once he decides it's like, okay, we're not going to kind of milk this thing and try to move through this inventory. It's like, no, no. We're going to cut and move. Right. And he just didn't pull any punches. I mean basically this was really a huge I gu.

Black eyed to the prior management of Foot Locker. Because basically what Ed said is that they have the wrong product that's merchandise poorly in bad store locations.

I mean that in some like, you know, they were doing it.

Colin True

00:12:01.960 - 00:12:02.640

In short, you.

Eoin Comerford

00:12:02.800 - 00:12:11.160

In short, it was a shit show. Like he was like, like he used the term retail 101 when talking about this. The stuff that was. That's brutal. Right? So.

Colin True

00:12:11.160 - 00:12:16.640

But there's no like. Well, thanks to the prior regime, we're excited to continue on the time honored tradition of Foot Locker.

Producer Dave

00:12:16.720 - 00:12:18.600

Don't let the foot hit you in the ass.

Eoin Comerford

00:12:18.600 - 00:13:01.560

Oh, absolutely. But it was so really it's worth your time if you're a geek like me into this stuff to listen to the earnings call.

But it does sound like a good chunk of that 500 and 700k is actually going to be an inventory write down. Okay. Because basically they're saying they've got all the wrong stuff. So we're going to basically flush it for a sense of sort of scale there.

They had $1.7 billion of inventory on the balance sheet in August. So And I think we're talking about. But you know, they said it was like the majority was inventory.

So maybe 300 to 500 million write down on a base of 1.7 billion. That's a shit ton of inventory that they're writing off.

Colin True

00:13:01.560 - 00:13:06.960

Yeah. Where's all that going to go? Where does that all get liquidated? Sierra. They're called the on the phone to.

Eoin Comerford

00:13:06.960 - 00:13:15.500

Sierra 100%, believe me. So, I mean, EdStack used the term jobber on the call, which is like ho, woof.

Chris DeMakes

00:13:15.900 - 00:13:16.460

Whoa.

Colin True

00:13:16.460 - 00:13:18.140

Yeah, that's a throwback, right?

Eoin Comerford

00:13:18.140 - 00:13:58.400

I mean, so we're talking. So I think what's basically going to happen is that they're going to put a ton of stuff on sale here at the high point of the season.

I mean, you may as well like, you know, fish, while the fish are biting, take advantage.

So they're going to see major discounts on the stuff that they want to go away for the next, you know, certainly through Christmas and then maybe into January, I would say. But then whatever doesn't move pretty early on.

It's just going to get flushed because they've already been talking to brands about bringing in new product, you know, where they can fill holes. Right.

I mean, there's only so much that's in the system, but they're going to need to make space on the shelves and more importantly in the back rooms. So they're just going to broom a whole bunch of stuff.

Colin True

00:13:58.400 - 00:14:07.200

So yeah, it sounds like they want to move quickly. Like I said, they mentioned they want to be ready for back to school 20, 26 basically with whatever their new sort of rollout is going to be.

Eoin Comerford

00:14:07.200 - 00:14:08.120

Yeah, exactly.

Colin True

00:14:08.120 - 00:14:11.960

So I guess the big question is how many stores do they.

Producer Dave

00:14:12.520 - 00:14:25.770

Hold on real quick. Go back to when you say when they're going to flush. Where does flush go and what do the brands think about this?

Because it's not footlocker brand that's being flushed, it's branded Point. Right. So what does that mean?

Colin True

00:14:26.010 - 00:14:27.330

You sold us the wrong thing.

Producer Dave

00:14:27.330 - 00:14:28.570

That's your fault.

Colin True

00:14:28.890 - 00:14:30.090

Here's your chargeback.

Eoin Comerford

00:14:30.490 - 00:14:30.850

Right.

Producer Dave

00:14:30.850 - 00:14:42.470

I mean, I mean like when you say is this in the states, is this internationally, Is there going to be all of a sudden a run of, I don't know, white dunks in the Philippines just like just everywhere alongside the.

Colin True

00:14:42.470 - 00:14:43.550

Super bowl loser T shirts?

Eoin Comerford

00:14:43.550 - 00:15:21.890

Yeah, yeah, possibly. You know, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, $300 million in inventory isn't going to totally upend the whole market.

But it's not going to be good news.

I know that Dick's has been in contact with all the brands involved and I think they understand that, you know, it's going to be sort of a short term pain, long term gain scenario where, yes, we're going to have to burn through some of this stuff. But hey, guess what? We're going to. That's going to create open to buy for you that you didn't have. Right. Because we need to replace it with stuff.

So they're like. So the brand's like, yeah, well, we already sold that stuff. Okay, yeah, sure. Blow that stuff out. Oh, you're going to write a PO for $50 million? Sure.

Producer Dave

00:15:21.890 - 00:15:22.130

Yeah.

Eoin Comerford

00:15:22.130 - 00:15:36.930

That sounds like a great idea. So I think there's going to be some of that.

But the other interesting question, you know, on the earnings call was, well, is this actually going to undermine your existing Dick's business? Right. And basically the answer was, yeah, a.

Colin True

00:15:36.930 - 00:15:37.690

Lot of shared brands.

Eoin Comerford

00:15:37.690 - 00:15:48.230

A lot of shared brands. Exactly. And the answer was, well, no, because we only have good product and so the competing product is bad product.

And therefore, you know, we at Dick's are perfectly assorted.

Colin True

00:15:48.230 - 00:15:48.670

Exactly.

Eoin Comerford

00:15:48.910 - 00:15:50.510

So. So no, it's not going to be.

Colin True

00:15:50.510 - 00:15:56.630

How dare you insinuate. So now let us tell you about the new house of sport that's replacing Public Lands.

Eoin Comerford

00:15:56.630 - 00:16:13.410

Yeah, right. Well, no, I think maybe it's going to.

Well, and also the other thing through is that Dick's has its own liquidation channel too, and Going Going Gone and, and the. And their warehouse channel. So I don't know how much of it will actually go through that liquidation channel. Double Dipper.

Colin True

00:16:13.410 - 00:16:18.850

They're gonna like buy from themselves. Like Going Going Gone is gonna submit a PO to Foot Locker for a bunch of dropped styles.

Eoin Comerford

00:16:18.850 - 00:16:30.090

Yeah. At an incredible price. Right. An incredible deal.

So, you know, they'll get it at 80 off money in that circle and then, you know, in the Going, Going Gone. So I don't even know how the transfer pricing would work. But yes.

Producer Dave

00:16:30.090 - 00:16:38.890

What's the, what's the likelihood that Foot Locker becomes that channel for Dicks that it actually they downstream it and turn it into the Sierra?

Colin True

00:16:38.890 - 00:16:40.490

They've got to be seeing it as a premium player.

Producer Dave

00:16:40.970 - 00:16:58.570

They're going to go the other direction. I mean, like, of Sport is super investment in experience. I think we just saw that North Face dropped that. They're doing a big flagship open.

Their big flagship in New York, you know, multi level, you know, 20,000 square feet. I mean, you think that that's where the Foot Locker piece goes to this.

Eoin Comerford

00:16:58.970 - 00:17:14.930

I think the Foot Locker store footprint or the type of store looks, looks similar.

Maybe they try to get maybe a little bit more off mall than they are today, but I think it stays in that sort of, you know, smallish 2,000 square foot footprint. But no, no, they want to go the other way. They want to go to High Heat.

Colin True

00:17:14.930 - 00:17:15.290

Right.

Eoin Comerford

00:17:15.910 - 00:17:17.350

Premium. Like the. They want to have.

Colin True

00:17:17.350 - 00:17:19.750

That's the legacy brand. What a name you have as far as.

Producer Dave

00:17:19.750 - 00:17:19.910

Right.

Eoin Comerford

00:17:19.910 - 00:17:41.110

I mean, they want to be where the sneaker head wants to shop. Right. And what that means then is they want to have the high Heat styles that this, that they, they can. So they go in and they're getting.

When they walk into that Foot Locker, they want to be able to see all the coolest shit that's possible. Right. For that consumer, not, you know, warmed over retreads of, of old styles that nobody cares about.

Producer Dave

00:17:41.270 - 00:17:48.130

I mean, it is a locker. I mean, you could put stuff that you want to get rid of. I don't know, maybe Foot Dumpster might be the way to go for your downstream stream play.

Eoin Comerford

00:17:48.290 - 00:17:50.770

Maybe that's their. Maybe that's the clearance channel.

Producer Dave

00:17:51.330 - 00:17:52.050

That's right.

Colin True

00:17:52.690 - 00:17:57.010

It's our stepchild over here, the Foot Dumpster. We don't pay much attention. This is Cinderella.

Producer Dave

00:17:57.010 - 00:17:59.570

We're just moving product through it, right? Just moving.

Eoin Comerford

00:17:59.890 - 00:18:00.210

So.

Colin True

00:18:00.210 - 00:18:03.730

Well, let's wrap it up here so we can get to our running event preview. But I mean, I'm curious.

Eoin Comerford

00:18:04.450 - 00:18:47.080

But to answer your question on the store count thing, I think it is tricky, right, to figure that out. But if I had to guess based on the comments, I would say 100 to 200 million of those write downs would be in store closing costs.

Now, it's tough to figure it out because like the write downs are their lease liabilities, their PP&E and other stuff. But typically these are smaller, older stores. So let's just say just round figures.

We're talking about 400k per store between lease liabilities, all these other stuff, that's 250 to 500 stores. Okay. Out of a current base of about 2,300 stores. So we're talking upwards of 20, 25% of the stores.

Producer Dave

00:18:48.100 - 00:18:48.620

Many stores.

Eoin Comerford

00:18:48.620 - 00:18:48.980

Yeah.

Colin True

00:18:48.980 - 00:18:53.300

That's a lot. I mean, obviously the thoughts and you know, go to the people who are going to be impacted by this.

Eoin Comerford

00:18:53.300 - 00:18:53.620

Absolutely.

Colin True

00:18:54.020 - 00:21:31.250

25, 20, 300 doors, especially if you're. If to your point, if they are looking to elevate the experience in the store, then they, they probably definitely have to.

If, if that's the new model, then they definitely have too many stores. Right. So. Wow. Okay. Well, we'll be keeping an eye on that as, as it unfolds and see how this all plays out.

And it sounds like it's going to all unfold pretty quickly here in the first half of 2026. So. Yeah, as the air cools and the trails beckon. Lemz is ready to move with you.

Lemz has new shoes like the Trailblazer Mid, the mighty Trail Thrasher and the insulated Brek Boot. Get your Lemz boots to get ready for the season ahead.

And hey outdoor and running retailers, will you be at the running event and switchback this week?

Well then you can see all the styles we just told you about as well as check out Lem's new running shoes and also Lem's recently expanded their wholesale sales team. You want to meet up with your local rep?

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Chris DeMakes

00:21:51.560 - 00:22:09.800

Thousand line and switch backs. Humming with the breakout shine. Cause we're going to run, run, run at the running event. Have fun, fun, fun Till the demo was spent.

We'll switch direction toward outdoor perfection.

Eoin Comerford

00:22:10.040 - 00:22:11.280

Stock bar stock.

Chris DeMakes

00:22:11.280 - 00:22:12.600

Keeping that connection.

Colin True

00:22:15.880 - 00:22:16.600

There we go.

Shawnté Salabert

00:22:16.680 - 00:22:20.350

Wow, that is beautiful. Beautiful work.

Colin True

00:22:20.350 - 00:22:23.790

Little impromptu rock Fight radio here as we get ready for the running event.

Shawnté Salabert

00:22:24.670 - 00:22:25.950

I feel more jazzed.

Eoin Comerford

00:22:26.830 - 00:22:28.910

Absolutely. Yeah.

Colin True

00:22:29.070 - 00:22:30.590

Look, Dave needs things to do, guys.

Eoin Comerford

00:22:30.590 - 00:22:34.510

I do, apparently. And here's me without my poodle skirt.

Producer Dave

00:22:35.710 - 00:22:36.110

Right?

Shawnté Salabert

00:22:36.270 - 00:22:38.270

You still have a few days to get one before we get there.

Colin True

00:22:38.430 - 00:23:27.780

Well, like we said, shortly after this episode is released, the four of us will be on our way to San Antonio, Texas to attend the running event and switch back. A little background.

For those who may not know, the running event was launched in 2006 called calls itself North America's premier run and outdoor specialty retail conference and trade show. Just rolls off the tongue.

The show started mainly as an education conference for running retailers with a smaller assembly of brands that has now grown into be a day of panels followed by a two day trade show. And then two years ago Tre added the Switchback section of outdoor brands to the show.

The idea being to give run retailers more options outside of just purely running brands. That of course led to the launch of Switchback spring this past June, which we covered extensively here on the Rock Fight. So let's start broadly.

Let's go around the horn. Actually, Shantae, let's start with you. Since you had to sit through our AR dicks conversation.

Nathan Dopp

00:23:27.940 - 00:23:28.820

So many dicks.

Colin True

00:23:29.460 - 00:23:33.700

So what, what are you looking forward to checking out at the running event?

Shawnté Salabert

00:23:33.700 - 00:23:57.310

I mean, well, this is actually going to be my first time at Tres, so I am just excited to marinate amongst all of the other running nerds. So that'll be very exciting for me. Um, I am very curious though how the, you know, outdoor feels like the ugly stepchild here.

I mean it's obviously the focus is running. You got a little outdoor here on the side, a little spice. I'm just curious, is it going to.

Colin True

00:23:57.310 - 00:24:00.510

Be a wait, ugly stepchild or the mistress? Which one?

Shawnté Salabert

00:24:00.990 - 00:25:00.540

Yeah, let's go with mistress. I like that better. Yeah, I mean, I'm just curious, is it going to be a seamless integration?

You know, I think we were kind of talking off mic yesterday about does it kind of create an ombre effect of like really hardcore running then Maybe you get into trail running and then you start going into, like, body glide and, you know, clif bars. So, yeah, I think that'll be really interesting. I. You know, for me, honestly, I think outdoor is a strange category. I still don't get why.

Because we're doing all of this outside for the most part, unless you're on a treadmill. But, yeah, I don't know. I'm curious about that. I'm also curious to see if it feels as congenial as Switchback Spring did.

I feel like the size of that show is, you know, it's never going to be that small again. I think we know that as far as a standalone event goes, but it really felt like you could talk to anybody.

You talked to everybody and you made real connections. So I'm curious to see if that vibe exists here.

Colin True

00:25:01.340 - 00:25:04.700

Do you think you'll go home with, like, $2,000 worth of gear like you did at Switchback?

Shawnté Salabert

00:25:04.700 - 00:25:05.340

I hope so.

Colin True

00:25:06.940 - 00:25:12.500

From a Gear Abbey point of view, is there something that you're looking for, like, in terms of how it applies to what we do over on Gear Abbey?

Shawnté Salabert

00:25:12.500 - 00:25:25.080

Oh, man. You know, I'm curious to see. I'm always interested in innovations.

I'm always curious about sustainability, but really I'm looking for practical things for everyday runners. Because I think, yeah, we had Killian on the show, but he. He is an outlier in our audience.

Colin True

00:25:26.040 - 00:25:27.680

No, everybody does what he does.

Shawnté Salabert

00:25:27.680 - 00:25:39.240

I know I just got finished running, you know, running 100 miles in two hours. So, yeah, I. Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see what kinds of things pop up that appeal to the everyday runner.

Eoin Comerford

00:25:39.240 - 00:25:39.560

So.

Shawnté Salabert

00:25:39.560 - 00:25:41.000

And I think there will be a lot of it.

Colin True

00:25:41.960 - 00:25:55.380

So I went to the running event during my pro bar days, which was more than a decade ago, when the show was much smaller. I didn't get to see the exhibition last year. And, Dave, you're the one on this call who got to see the most recent exhibition of the running event.

So what are you looking to check out this year?

Producer Dave

00:25:55.540 - 00:26:50.210

I'm looking for more of the same here. Like, I'm looking forward to the energy. Like, it is a definite callback to kind of the outdoor retailer days that our. Our folks know.

You know, you've got the mega boothopolis going on with presenting brands. You've got the frenzy of free stuff and wanting handouts of excess.

I mean, it's just really, there is such an energy of people doing business and being there. The promotional side is fully on display, so I think that that's always it's just, it's a great energy to walk into.

And to your point, Shantae, how can outdoor, you know, borrow from that, bring from that? Are they going to learn and add to it?

So I, I just, I think those things and then the other thing I'm really looking forward to seeing is the, how the factional rivalry within running is going to play out. Right. The road versus trail. Right. I think that we're going to be.

Colin True

00:26:50.210 - 00:26:51.250

Gangs in New York style rumble.

Producer Dave

00:26:51.250 - 00:27:15.760

Civil war is on and I'm here for it. And I just want to see, you know, how does it, how does it manifest everything we've been talking about?

How does it manifest itself in the, you know, the ground zero of running promotion? Like, are we going to see big wall sized banners of trails? You know, are there going to be an f asphalt kind of movement?

Like, just let's see where it goes.

Colin True

00:27:16.320 - 00:27:46.400

One thing for all. And when I get to my part, it's a little bit more about the show itself.

But I think one thing, when you do show up at these events, you can tell who it matters to the most, right? I mean like for example, Patagonia, not at Switchback Spring, they're at this event.

So that kind of says to me like, hey, they, they show up here because they want to talk to the running audience, which they maybe see as a weak spot from the running and the endemic running world. As you reflect on last year, like, is this a meaningful event to like Nike? Did they have one of those boothopolises, like where it was like multi.

Yeah, right. So this, this is a meaningful event to the running world.

Producer Dave

00:27:46.480 - 00:28:03.920

Last year I'm going to call out Brooks, I'm going to call out Nike, you're going to call out Merrill. All brought it. Now I'm leaving others out.

So this is not my comprehensive review, but those just made impressions on me in terms of booth size, material structure, environment. Like it's like. Yep, they're, they're, they're, they're bringing it.

Colin True

00:28:04.160 - 00:28:05.760

So this is where Merrill brings in Merrell.

Shawnté Salabert

00:28:05.760 - 00:28:08.400

By Merrill, by Merrell. We're going to triple, quadruple this.

Producer Dave

00:28:08.480 - 00:28:15.360

They're gonna, they're gonna have. That's right. They're gonna have four different booth floor plan spaces when you're only supposed to have two.

Colin True

00:28:15.600 - 00:28:20.880

Merrell trade show brand now their product as they show up at trade shows. I like that idea. That's all they do.

Producer Dave

00:28:21.040 - 00:28:26.280

That's exactly right. They're gonna have the free first five story trade show booth. It'd be great.

Shawnté Salabert

00:28:26.280 - 00:28:30.400

They're gonna have to cut a hole in the roof of the convention center. It's gonna be really next level, literally.

Producer Dave

00:28:30.400 - 00:28:32.600

Yep. Right? Next level, literally.

Colin True

00:28:33.160 - 00:28:35.200

Owen, what do you think? This is your first time going, right?

Eoin Comerford

00:28:35.200 - 00:29:57.630

This is my first time. And for me, I'm kind of fascinated because it is that outlier, which is a vibrant national industry show. Right. And really it is.

I mean, you look at ispo, you look at or whatever. So, you know, it is that outlier. So I'm really interested just to understand. Try. Well, try to understand what makes it, um.

If I were in the, you know, the or village. What. What is it? The leadership village. I would be sneaking into the show just to kind of figure out, okay, what.

What is it that makes this thing tick? So that's really, really interesting.

The other interesting thing, you know, is the looking at emerging brands on the run side and seeing how they live here. Because, you know, like, so. Yeah, like, does. Does tre have like an emerging brands section? Is that a thing? Or are they sp in between?

And if we have the mega booths, is it that kind of like, redheaded stepchild. Here's my tiny 10 by 10 for this emerging trail running brand or this emerging running vest brand or whatever.

And you're just sort of overshadowed, like people were back in the day. So kind of interested on that front. And then the whole switchback of it all.

Having been to the standalone switchback, how does the stepchild switchback feel? Does it still feel energetic and cool and whatever else, or does it feel a little bit subdued, you know, surrounded.

Colin True

00:29:57.630 - 00:30:00.750

By this bigger show that might bleed into my predictions.

Shawnté Salabert

00:30:00.830 - 00:30:02.510

Yeah. Get lost in the sauce, you know.

Eoin Comerford

00:30:02.830 - 00:30:03.230

Right.

Colin True

00:30:03.390 - 00:31:25.920

I just, you know, just to echo. And that's the first part we said is what I'm most interested in. Right. I think the.

I want to see if what the enthusiasm, just the objective acceptance and enthusiasm of the show can be replicated outside of the running event. I mean, the trade show scene for the outdoors, I think it's. At best, you can say it continues to be unsettled. Right. There's a lot of.

And I think a lot of that is due to the value of the proposition our outdoor shows make in a world where retailers and brands don't necessarily need a big national show to do business with each other. So I'm looking forward to talking brands and hopefully some dealers as well, about what makes this event a different animal.

And is there a learning there that switchback spring or outdoor retailer or ispo to your point, zero and like, you know, can apply to their events now, as we look at the schedule, I'm going to get there a little early, so I'm going to get a chance to spend some time with the education days. You know, I know we, we were at the ones at Switchback Spring. Oh, and you sat on a panel. One of the education days.

I want to get a sense from you guys because that's the heritage of the show. Right. That is where they really was like, let's get the retailers together and help them learn together.

And then also, oh, by the way, we brought some brands in that you can hang out with and now the brand part is really grown. But that's really the main focus of the show that people talk about the most. When it comes to the running event, do they matter?

I mean, do you think attendance would drop off at this point if they didn't happen?

Again, it's a heritage of the show, but in the bigger trade show conversation, is the education day a nice to have on the schedule to make it look like you're doing something, or does it really bring value to the show? Owen, what do you think?

Eoin Comerford

00:31:26.160 - 00:32:07.500

I think it does, especially if you're tying the show into a national organization, which is the case here, because they're tied in with ria, the running industry association. So they've got a membership meeting, et cetera.

So that is a key value as that one time a year where everybody gets to come together within that association. So that is cool. The other key thing then is, is it valuable content? Right.

Is it just sort of endless panels of people who are just, you know, talking in generalities and platitudes, or are you actually digging into the real issues that are driving the industry, which unfortunately I don't see a lot of in a lot of these industry days.

Shawnté Salabert

00:32:08.380 - 00:32:21.660

Yeah, that's. I mean, I feel very similar.

It's got to be substantive and that's, you know, I think there's a lot of chit chat, you know, constantly about diversity and let's get women and let's do sustainability. And it's just a lot of lip service. Let's do sustainability.

Colin True

00:32:21.660 - 00:32:22.540

There's a T shirt, Dave.

Eoin Comerford

00:32:22.540 - 00:32:24.060

Let's do sustain sustainability.

Shawnté Salabert

00:32:24.060 - 00:32:43.560

Yes, let's do it. But I'd love to see education days become a little bit more solutions oriented.

I think of this, it's a journalism term, but I think of the idea of, yeah, we, we've identified the problems, I think, at this point, and whether that's pain points for retailers or for brands or for consumers, like, let's get into the solutions part. Of it. Now guys, we know what the problems are.

Colin True

00:32:44.040 - 00:33:01.090

I think I sell to what I'm getting at.

Like usually as an outside observer of someone who's not at a brand or with a retailer and I'm sitting, listening, put myself in the shoes of who's this, who they're trying to speak to and I'm like, what are my takeaways from this? That I'm like, oh man, that's great. I'm going to do that. Usually it's like, yeah, that was nice. Those people had.

They had things to say, you know, and that's usually my.

Shawnté Salabert

00:33:01.170 - 00:33:01.890

Another graph.

Colin True

00:33:02.770 - 00:33:04.130

Did you see the Venn diagram?

Shawnté Salabert

00:33:04.210 - 00:33:04.770

I did.

Producer Dave

00:33:05.330 - 00:33:07.570

Hey, let's leave Venn diagrams out of this.

Colin True

00:33:10.050 - 00:33:53.390

So on the flip side of that, we were specifically asked to stay for the whole show. Right. And so we could take part or at least observe the big retailer awards dinner on the last night of the show.

And I think, you know, having been there a long time ago, Dave last year, neither. None of us have seen they end the show every year with the retailer of the year awards or the running awards show, whatever it's called.

And it's a big soiree and it gets people to stick around and they hand out awards to these people who are very much invested in the running industry. So if the opening education day is sounds like it can be necessary from what Shantae and Owen just said.

But if there's some work to be done, there is a can't miss it closer a potential to a show's success. Because I feel like that has always been a problem for trade shows is not having. What's the thing at the end that gets people to stick around?

Eoin Comerford

00:33:53.470 - 00:34:20.600

Absolutely. I think three day shows or four day shows, the last day is always just a ghost town. Right.

Everyone is in their booths waiting to break down because they haven't had somebody stop by in the last 10 hours. But even like Switchback Spring, a two day show, from what I heard we had left.

But from what I heard the afternoon of day two was pretty sparsely attended. So I think this is the morning.

Colin True

00:34:20.600 - 00:34:22.760

Was a little thin for being okay.

Eoin Comerford

00:34:23.480 - 00:34:40.900

But no, I think having guys are super smart having it be a two day show, high energy both days and then you've got pillars on each end. The education day at the beginning, the awards thing at the end, everybody wants to come for the whole thing.

You're not cherry picking days here or there. That to me just makes a ton of sense.

Colin True

00:34:41.060 - 00:35:16.760

Yeah. If you have like you need to have that thing at the end because it just having people leave and they will leave.

If you had a one day train show by 11 o' clock, everyone would be gone. Right. I mean it's just like this is how it always goes. I mean Dave and I both, you know, worked plenty of booths on the brand side.

You spend to the four of the four day show. You're right. A day and a half usually like when do we get our pallets can get the out of here.

But if you know, like, oh, tomorrow night is the thing that we're all actually here for, like what an interesting idea. Then, then you can.

The value is baked in that people are going to stay and you take away that opportunity for them to be like, oh, it got kind of weak at the end. Yeah, it didn't go. So last half wasn't that good. It's like, no, the whole thing was good because you were waiting around. Shantae, what do you think?

Shawnté Salabert

00:35:16.760 - 00:36:07.950

Yeah, going out on a high note, I guess. Yeah, I love the idea. I think it's. I think back to Switchback Spring and how we had the opening night party.

And I always go back to yes, people are coming here to get business done. You're, you know, making orders, all this stuff. But we're also here to connect.

And I think it's partially, you know, people deepening relationships that exist but also forming new relationships. And so this idea of bookending the event with two big social opportunities, you know, education day.

But there is a party that night and then the, you know, the awards ceremony. It's this opportunity for you to continue connecting with people and to end on high note again.

I think, you know, all these people that you don't know that you meet in those two days, then that last day everybody's loosened up a bit, we're all done, you know, in business mode. We can just enjoy the evening. I think it's a really nice way to wrap things up and keep everybody engaged. So yeah, I'm all for it.

Colin True

00:36:08.430 - 00:36:10.110

Dave, anything you want to add there? Are you good?

Producer Dave

00:36:10.190 - 00:36:22.590

No, I was just going to, you know, speak for the group of people that don't see an award show is a must attend type of draw. At the end of the, at the end of the show, Dave's ready to go home. That's just me. That's right.

Colin True

00:36:22.990 - 00:36:37.900

No, I mean, and I agree with that. But if the, the whole thing of these trade shows that we talk about, right is they're like, we gotta get the retail buyers there.

A lot of times we're hearing that from the buyers like Nah, I don't really need to be there. But if the awards are focused on the retailers, right. And now it's like we're handing out retailers a year.

Producer Dave

00:36:37.900 - 00:36:41.060

10% of those retailers want to be there. The other 90 don't.

Colin True

00:36:41.540 - 00:36:47.380

But what matters, Dave, is the post show surveys. Oh my God, it was great. They gave me an award.

Producer Dave

00:36:47.540 - 00:36:52.620

See, I think there should be a second hoka party with the retailer awards. Now we're talking.

Shawnté Salabert

00:36:52.620 - 00:36:54.960

And that's. They should do the survey right after the party.

Producer Dave

00:36:55.040 - 00:36:58.240

Right during, during the party actually.

Colin True

00:36:58.960 - 00:37:00.160

10 drink minimum.

Nathan Dopp

00:37:02.000 - 00:37:02.440

Minimum.

Colin True

00:37:02.440 - 00:37:03.520

And here's your survey.

Eoin Comerford

00:37:04.560 - 00:37:05.360

There you go.

Colin True

00:37:05.680 - 00:37:08.640

This is the best party ever. I mean, trade show.

Producer Dave

00:37:08.640 - 00:37:09.600

I love you, man.

Colin True

00:37:11.920 - 00:37:30.100

Oh, I'm totally coming back next year. All right, well, it wouldn't be very on brand for us not to make some predictions or take some wild swings.

So as we're all packing our bags and getting ready to head to San Antonio, let's go around the horn one more and make predictions for the running event gear. Abby, let's start with you. What do you got?

Shawnté Salabert

00:37:30.100 - 00:37:54.050

Oh my God. I was, I turned up a couple different predictions but I'm actually going to lean into the one.

I really think, I think that like one in every five conversations is going to be about how trail running is the new road running. And I think we're going to see that reflected in brands showcasing more trail oriented apparel and footwear and accessories.

I think we're going to see it probably in some of the booths that they're going to lean into trail as their, you know, motif for the, the booth.

Chris DeMakes

00:37:54.050 - 00:37:54.450

So.

Shawnté Salabert

00:37:54.450 - 00:37:59.890

And not just the brands you'd expect like Altra. So I'm pretty excited to see that. As a trail running nerd myself.

Colin True

00:38:00.450 - 00:38:03.010

Also Katherine Hepburn back from the dead at the running event apparently.

Producer Dave

00:38:03.090 - 00:38:03.490

Totally.

Colin True

00:38:03.490 - 00:38:05.090

Trail running is the trail running, isn't it?

Nathan Dopp

00:38:05.090 - 00:38:05.730

I love that.

Shawnté Salabert

00:38:05.970 - 00:38:06.690

I love it.

Colin True

00:38:10.050 - 00:38:11.810

Dave, what do you got? What are your predictions?

Producer Dave

00:38:12.690 - 00:38:15.970

I have so many predictions. Call and none of them will come true. But.

Colin True

00:38:15.970 - 00:38:18.690

Well, we all have to be accountable. We're going to record our recap while we're at the show.

Producer Dave

00:38:18.690 - 00:38:24.470

Okay, well look, I told you before, shit's going down at the soccer like I can just tell you that, that, that is.

Colin True

00:38:24.470 - 00:38:25.950

When did you tell me that that.

Producer Dave

00:38:25.950 - 00:38:53.680

Is where, you know, I'm looking side eyed at the sock wall. I don't know what it is with walls in Texas, but I think this, the sock wall is where the energy's gonna be.

So I'm just saying like the sock wall also too. I was kind of, I'M still thinking this may happen that the show will announce their official name change to Running Daze.

But it will be Daze to avoid confusion with the outside festival, which I think is smart. Right.

Colin True

00:38:53.680 - 00:38:56.920

And you know, new change in the outside festival.

Producer Dave

00:38:56.920 - 00:38:57.480

That's right.

Eoin Comerford

00:38:58.200 - 00:38:59.120

News. I hadn't heard that.

Producer Dave

00:38:59.120 - 00:39:05.559

It's a little hip. Outside announced that they are changing the name of the outside festival to Outside days.

Eoin Comerford

00:39:08.120 - 00:39:09.400

Without the Z seven days.

Producer Dave

00:39:09.800 - 00:39:20.110

No, that's with D A Y S. They're a little more conservative in their nomenclature. I think here with days we can really kind of bring in a little groovier sense. I mean, this is all about trail running these days.

Shawnté Salabert

00:39:20.110 - 00:39:22.510

Yeah. I mean you get the post run high. I know all about that.

Producer Dave

00:39:22.510 - 00:39:24.590

Right. See, there you go. There you go.

Colin True

00:39:24.590 - 00:39:26.030

But the pre run high.

Producer Dave

00:39:26.510 - 00:39:27.470

The pre run high.

Shawnté Salabert

00:39:27.470 - 00:39:28.910

There are ways to run high.

Producer Dave

00:39:28.910 - 00:39:31.670

Yeah, right. It really, it goes everywhere mostly and.

Colin True

00:39:31.670 - 00:39:32.750

Legal in a lot of places.

Producer Dave

00:39:32.910 - 00:39:43.150

But, but, but the I I one more here is this. I do think that the switchback booth envy is real and someone is going to bring it. Someone is going to.

Colin True

00:39:43.150 - 00:39:44.590

Oh, someone on the switchback side.

Producer Dave

00:39:44.590 - 00:39:59.380

Someone on the switchback is going to say at a. And I think that like we said last time, the outdoors looked a little meager next to the running nerds.

So I think that this year somebody's going to step up and make a mention worthy booth. So fingers crossed.

Colin True

00:39:59.620 - 00:40:01.220

All right, Owen, you want to go or you want me to go?

Eoin Comerford

00:40:01.940 - 00:40:34.910

So my prediction is that based upon the success of the TRE awards presentation, how it is this bookend thing combined with their announcement of this deeper relationship with the oia, we are going to see diversified the shift. The show organizer announce a major awards push for Switchback 2026 as the Outdoor Industry Awards.

On that second day, they're going to follow the same exact model. So that's my prediction. Now will they announce it at the show? I don't know. I may grill Kent and Christina during the live portion that we're at.

Colin True

00:40:34.910 - 00:40:37.590

Oh, I think, I think we have a responsibility.

Eoin Comerford

00:40:37.590 - 00:40:45.430

I think if they come back with, well, we're not ready to announce anything right now. Now I'm going to take that as a yes and that my prediction was correct.

Colin True

00:40:46.950 - 00:40:47.910

I'll support that.

Producer Dave

00:40:48.070 - 00:40:48.510

Yes.

Eoin Comerford

00:40:48.510 - 00:40:48.950

Well done.

Colin True

00:40:48.950 - 00:40:53.030

No, it's a moral imperative that you ask the question. Yeah.

Producer Dave

00:40:53.510 - 00:40:55.350

All right, Colin, what's your prediction?

Colin True

00:40:55.590 - 00:40:59.430

Okay, I have two. First, I'm predicting outdoor run posers.

Eoin Comerford

00:40:59.590 - 00:41:00.190

Okay.

Colin True

00:41:00.190 - 00:41:08.470

I think there's going to be at least three outdoor brands that don't really speak to the running category who show up with either ill fated running, marketing or products.

Shawnté Salabert

00:41:09.490 - 00:41:10.050

That sounds like.

Eoin Comerford

00:41:10.370 - 00:41:30.610

So speaking about outdoor run poser. Sorry, just interject here. You've talked a lot, Colin, about the people that show up to outdoor shows looking super outdoorsy.

They've got to wear their flannels and their hiking boots. Right. Do people show up to tre in like short, short running shorts and like little running. Running singlets? Is that a thing?

Colin True

00:41:30.770 - 00:41:32.610

Dave, you were there last year. Did you see any of that?

Shawnté Salabert

00:41:32.610 - 00:41:33.210

Did you wear it?

Producer Dave

00:41:33.210 - 00:41:37.490

I so want that to be true. I just. I so want that to be true.

Shawnté Salabert

00:41:37.490 - 00:41:38.850

You can make it true, Dave.

Producer Dave

00:41:38.850 - 00:41:40.390

I can tell you can.

Shawnté Salabert

00:41:40.460 - 00:41:41.500

Where they get some knee high.

Producer Dave

00:41:41.580 - 00:41:43.980

Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that at all.

Colin True

00:41:44.060 - 00:41:46.140

There are three people on this call who want that date.

Shawnté Salabert

00:41:46.140 - 00:41:48.220

That's three people, and I think all the listeners.

Producer Dave

00:41:48.540 - 00:41:50.940

Oh, my gosh, that's amazing.

Colin True

00:41:50.940 - 00:41:59.580

I would take back every bad thing I've said about the outdoor community if. If that ended up being true. Like, okay, plaid shirts and chocos. Not too bad compared to what we're seeing here.

Eoin Comerford

00:41:59.740 - 00:42:00.780

That's so awesome.

Producer Dave

00:42:00.860 - 00:42:01.420

All right, so.

Colin True

00:42:01.420 - 00:42:20.040

So no, but my outdoor poser thing, I think this is like the, the running equivalent equivalent of Steve Buscemi dressed as a skate punk saying, how do you do, fellow kids? You know, of like, you know, the outdoor people rolling into the running event, trying to be a running brand.

So I'm going to take it one step further. I'm going to call, I'm going to make here my three predictions of who I think is the most likely to do this.

Eoin Comerford

00:42:20.040 - 00:42:20.480

Okay?

Colin True

00:42:20.480 - 00:42:47.750

Okay. And if I'm wrong, I will eat crow on our recap. But I think my number one choice is Prana because they are kind of identity list right now.

They're very gappish and they're exhibiting at Switchback. So I could see them rolling in like, hey, we're a running brand now. Look at our running stuff. You know, I could see that happening.

Number two, see to summit, because I don't really think of them. I see they have a lot of stuff that I could see that runners using, but I can't.

I could see them showing up, trying to brand themselves as a running brand.

Nathan Dopp

00:42:47.750 - 00:42:48.390

I don't think so.

Producer Dave

00:42:48.390 - 00:42:48.910

Okay.

Colin True

00:42:49.070 - 00:43:05.990

I'm just saying it's, you know. And then number three is Berghaus, who's trying desperately anything to get accepted. You know, sorry to Shane, who was very.

Who was, as I said, lovely things about the podcast. We'll find out. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe apologizing. I think honestly, they want traction in the US market.

Shawnté Salabert

00:43:05.990 - 00:43:22.460

And I think they can actually do it if they lean into not just snow, which I think they do. Is. Yeah, running makes a lot of sense to me. Trail running. Because they do. I. I tried on one of their little packs. I forget the name of it.

They got all these great, like, wind shirts and things. That one might be the one most likely for me.

Producer Dave

00:43:22.460 - 00:43:26.580

Yeah. I would say the trail. Isn't that as much of a stretch for Berghaus? So it's.

Colin True

00:43:26.580 - 00:43:31.660

Right now their big marketing story is Oasis, so they're gonna have to pivot away from that at some point. Right. Cause, you know, the.

Eoin Comerford

00:43:31.820 - 00:43:32.100

The.

Colin True

00:43:32.100 - 00:43:34.180

The Oasis reunion story is getting old.

Eoin Comerford

00:43:34.180 - 00:43:34.580

You didn't.

Producer Dave

00:43:34.580 - 00:43:36.960

You didn't know that Liam Gallagher is an ultra runner now.

Colin True

00:43:37.760 - 00:43:38.920

I'm sure he says that he is.

Producer Dave

00:43:38.920 - 00:43:39.280

Right.

Nathan Dopp

00:43:39.520 - 00:43:40.000

So I.

Colin True

00:43:40.000 - 00:43:40.240

But.

Eoin Comerford

00:43:40.240 - 00:43:44.320

So. And Patagonia isn't on your list. I would think Patagonia would be top of the list for that.

Colin True

00:43:44.320 - 00:43:46.080

Patagonia's had a trail running line for a while.

Eoin Comerford

00:43:46.800 - 00:43:49.560

They've been in the category, so they get a pass.

Shawnté Salabert

00:43:49.560 - 00:43:50.960

Shorts are the only ones that fit me.

Eoin Comerford

00:43:50.960 - 00:43:51.360

Oh.

Colin True

00:43:51.360 - 00:44:01.240

So the one that I did want to say is code epoxy, but I think I'm saving my judgment for their booth, which I'm. Like we said, we're sure they were going to be the most. They're going to win Dave's most improved award.

Shawnté Salabert

00:44:01.240 - 00:44:06.560

Do you think they're just going to put, like, a little sign with all of our faces on it and just as a bid to win our affection?

Colin True

00:44:07.430 - 00:44:08.110

If they're smart.

Shawnté Salabert

00:44:08.110 - 00:44:10.310

Yeah, that's right. You guys still have a few more days.

Producer Dave

00:44:10.310 - 00:44:10.790

Okay.

Shawnté Salabert

00:44:11.430 - 00:44:12.630

Rush it to the Kinkos.

Colin True

00:44:12.630 - 00:44:42.900

My. My big prediction, which isn't relevant to the show, so I didn't want to make it.

My only prediction is that this will be the last switchback at the running event. I think it has now become confusing. Right now you have switchback spring.

Also, if we're in out for one of these outdoor brands, who wants to get in the running? Why can't I just go exhibit at the running event? Why do I need to be part of switchback?

I think it was a good idea to sort of draw in the outdoor element. I don't think you need it anymore. So I think switchback becomes its own thing. And the running back goes back to being just the running event.

And if you're outdoor and you want to exhibit at the running event, then.

Eoin Comerford

00:44:42.900 - 00:44:46.900

Run an exhibit at the run. Is there going to be a Switchback winter then? As part of the corollary to that.

Colin True

00:44:47.300 - 00:44:49.380

Prediction, that's a good question.

Eoin Comerford

00:44:49.540 - 00:44:52.340

And does there need to be an even better question?

Colin True

00:44:52.500 - 00:45:39.450

Right, That's a better question. Well, all right. Lastly, we didn't want to leave you guys short change today.

So to end the show, we're sharing our final interview from last month's Goa Connect in Kansas City. Owen, Dave and I had the chance to sit down with Nathan Dopp, who's the CEO of America for Fjallraven and VP for Phoenix Outdoor.

During our conversation, we got to talk with Nathan about the state of business as 2025 wraps up how they're planning for the future given the level of uncertainty the outdoor industry is facing, as well as how they've evolved to create a more flexible supply chain. Nathan's a super thoughtful leader and a great guy and we were fortunate to get a few minutes of his time.

Plus, he brought us all Fjallraven products emblazoned with the Rockvite logo. So he earned himself a pass from at least two or three future rock slingings. And Shantae's gonna get hers at the running event.

Shawnté Salabert

00:45:39.450 - 00:45:43.770

Excited walk around like a that's gonna we're going back to the Sharks vs Jets here. This is be great.

Producer Dave

00:45:43.930 - 00:45:44.730

Yes, we are.

Colin True

00:45:44.730 - 00:45:48.250

Any, any thoughts on Nathan before we roll the interview winner?

Eoin Comerford

00:45:48.250 - 00:46:06.330

Dave No, I think it was, it was a, it was a great conversation, you know, very thoughtful, I think. And, and you know, in, in a lot of these interviews you tend to get very sort of guarded question or answers to your questions.

And I felt like it was just a pretty straightforward conversation.

Speaker G

00:46:07.940 - 00:47:21.240

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Colin True

00:47:28.410 - 00:47:38.490

Well, we're here with the Rock Fight's favorite sponsor because he just hooked us up with some incredible swag. We're with Nathan Dobb, who's the CEO of America's for Fjallraven. Vp Phoenix Outdoor America Group ag.

Nathan Dopp

00:47:39.290 - 00:47:41.050

No, the. The Global Group.

Speaker G

00:47:41.130 - 00:47:41.690