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Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin opens the show talking about the negative reaction to Nike's Winning Isn't For Everyone ad campaign (01:05).
TL;DR: outdoorsy people need to relax.
Then Colin & Producer Dave hit the following headlines to come out of the outdoor industry over the last week:
Last Friday the $5m bankruptcy sale of Eastern Mountain Sports to the UK's Mountain Warehouse was approved just two years after EMS sold to GoDigital Media for $70m (19:53)
In addition to announcing a move of The Running Event from Austin to San Antonio in 2025, Switchback has several heavy hitting brands (Patagonia, Lululemon, Teva) signed up for their event in November (26:00)
Also out of the Switchback camp was the announcement of Trailheads, a new digital site for outdoor retailers covering industry trends (30:49)
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak out truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin Tru, and today we're going to talk about em S'S latest bankruptcy, all of the info to come out of the running vet and switch back this past week. And that's all after we open with how Nike's new ad is hurting the soft underbelly of many in the outdoor industry. But before we get to that, a few housekeeping items. Please follow and rate this show wherever you're listening on any podcast app, we really could use that five star rating. It helps others find the show. It's the best way you can support what we do. We don't ask you for money, just leave us a rating. Please. If you're an Apple Podcast listener, we'd love a written review. And if you leave a written review and you take a screenshot of that review and send it to my rock fight@gmail.com with your address, we'll send you some gear and beer and rock fight stickers. And lastly, head over to rock fight.co. Click join the mailing list so that you can get our weekly newsletter news from the front in your inbox every Sunday morning. Okay, let's start the show.
(01:05):
So I want to start today's show. I want to get a little catty. I don't tend to sort of just throw stones or throw rocks at people for no good reason. I like to think that we pick at the things on the show that we really want to dig into and would welcome opposing point of views. But this is something I've seen pop up on social media and LinkedIn over the past couple of weeks. And it's Nike's winning isn't for everyone, ad that they viewed at the Olympics a couple of weeks ago. And funnily enough, when I was thinking about this the other day, I actually ended up watching a scene that popped up on YouTube from the movie Ford versus Variety, Ford versus Ferrari. And it's the scene where Ken Miles wins a race by pushing the car he was in further than the brass at Ford wanted him to.
(01:49):
And as he's about to cross the finish line, he passes the leader and about the person who in about five seconds everyone knows he's going to finish second, and then he talks some shit to that guy, kind of looks over at him, gives a little shit talk, and then surges forward to win. And everyone in Ken's corner goes crazy. And it's his pit crew and his kid and Matt Damon, they all go nuts. And they go nuts because he won. Did he need to talk shit to that other driver? No, but it was as good of a moment, that moment as actually winning the race. And it reminded me of why we like watching and playing sports because we do it to win. We want to see other people win, who's the winner, who's the loser? Discuss And sure there are other reasons to play sports, but playing sports specifically is different than working out or doing things just for the benefit of your physical or mental health.
(02:40):
Now, on the Nike ad specifically, I first heard some blowback about this from the guys over on the Second Nature podcast and they had said on that pod that Nike had missed the mark. And so that caused me to go watch. That prompted me to go and watch the ad for the first time on YouTube. I immediately thought it was awesome. I didn't think much more of it At the time though, whatever, some people didn't like it, I liked it, tomato, tomato, whatever. But then this past week on LinkedIn and some other social media apps, I saw multiple threads of outdoor industry and industry adjacent folks ranting against this ad. I started to get annoyed. Now, if you haven't seen the ad, I'd encourage you to do so. It's on YouTube, you can watch it. But the short of it is, is that the spot is a sizzle reel of elite athletes competing at the highest level across multiple sports while actor Willam Defoe narrates.
(03:28):
The narration is basically how in order for these athletes to be who they are and they have to lean into being a bad person, embracing the darker side of humanity in order to win. And because of that, winning isn't for everyone. And I'm annoyed with the blowback that I saw these people posting for several reasons. The comments I saw were universally aligned with this idea that we shouldn't be celebrating the notion that in order to be a winner, you have to lack empathy or not respect your opponent and have a bad attitude. Multiple people enraged at Nike for encouraging a mindset that winning at all costs is acceptable. And my first reaction to this is, huh, this is what Nike has always done. This is what they do when they're at their best. And I don't want to go too deep on that point until we bring producer Dave in because he has a lot of experience in this arena in his career.
(04:14):
But if you've been paying attention at all for 40 plus years at this point, this is totally pardon the pun, but on brand for them. And secondly, how do you just not get it? How do you take this literally when you're watching the ad? I mean, the words you hear Willam, Defoe say are so obviously intended to be over the top and exaggerating the mindset that most athletes carry. I mean, as anyone who's being critical of this ad, have you played sports? I mean particularly team or ball sports? I mean the point is to win. So regardless of how exaggerated willam defoe's delivery is, what he's saying can be true, but what also can be true as these athletes can hold the values you want them to have in their larger approach to life. But I have to tell you, if anyone's getting a paid to compete and is competitive in a particular sport and they don't carry this type of mindset, they almost never win.
(05:03):
It's proven over and over again. And you what actually fuck that. Anyone who plays sports needs to have some of this mindset in them. There's a show that I want to reference right now. It's called Shorie and it's about this ice hockey team. It's from the creators of letter Kenny. And there's this moment in the first season when Shor Z's team who's pretty bad is talking to the owner of the team and they're talking about the team and the owner of the team says they don't love to win, and he shorie looks right at the owner and says, no, they don't hate to lose. And there's a distinction there. If you hate to lose more than you like to win, that's ultimately leads you to becoming a winner. For example, I have an ice hockey game tonight and I play in the copper division of my adult hockey beer league, which means there's three levels of competitiveness, gold, silver, and bronze above copper, above my grouping of teams and all the teams in my division, we pretty much get along off the ice.
(05:53):
We're all there for the right reasons. No one's there thinking they're winning the Stanley Cup, which is why I like playing this level of hockey before and after the games. We all get along. But I got to tell you, when that puck drops, I want to gut the other team. Winning isn't enough. I want them to lose. And if I make a crucial mistake that leads to the other team scoring or winning, I am gutted not I get left behind at the rink when the game ends because I bigger priorities in my life, but if this weren't my job, I'd be carrying it around with me. These critics of this ad, I feel like they would've fit in with the boomer moms in 1993 who reacted poorly to the Charles Barkley. I'm not a role model ad. So another point that's being made in some of these posts, and because these folks work in our industry, a lot of them are citing Nike's recent struggles as a reason why they shouldn't have made this ad in the first place.
(06:36):
And to that, I say, guys, you're in the fraction of a percentile that knows that Nike has had a bad run lately. Are you telling me that when their marketing team is pitching ideas for their run during the Olympics, they're entering the room going, huh, well really got to check out how we've done the past couple quarters. We laid anybody off lately that we came out of. I'm sure that influences our storytelling. The whole thing has just really obviously rubbed me the wrong way. So I want to bring producer Dave in because he was in the athletic footwear space when he was coming up and feel free to call me a TR diaper. There's a long history of outdoorsy people who don't get it and looked down on more typical team or ball sports, the sort of, I don't watch sports, I do sports rhetoric.
(07:16):
Now to be fair, there were plenty of people who were defending the spot in these threads as well and liked what Nike was trying to do. And look, any good creative director will tell you Nike wins here either way, because those of you out there posting about how much you don't like the ad, well you're still talking about the ad and is that what Nike really wants out of all this? So let's bring in another creative director. So Dave, you were there in the early, not early days I guess, but the mid days of Adidas and Nike and everything, you have a lot of experience in this realm both from a creative and brand and marketing point of view as well as an athletic point of view. What is your take on all of this when you see all this happening out there?
Producer Dave (07:53):
Yeah, Colin, thank you for that. I think for that introduction, yes, back to the days of Beta max tapes for our TV spots and Ruby paper for our print ads and cave paintings for our social media. Nothing like a well carved swoosh into a rock
Colin (08:11):
Man, we could fax this over, it'll get there in 20 minutes.
Producer Dave (08:15):
No, I think yeah, there's been a lot of discussion, of course even in the ad, the ad media as well about it. Nike Ute typically does that for sure. I think that from my perspective, I get the narrative that it is out of sync with today's current themes of positivity and inclusion and working together. You see that a lot and brands are having success with those messages. And in all the backdrops that we have, I get that politics has gone one way. It's just like you get that and that makes sense. And Nike chose to do a different path and take a counter tone, which already puts me into alert of like that's interesting that they have chosen this counter narrative. I think it's also important to try to make sweeping societal claims around a single campaign. Nike is a massive, is fully mature brand.
(09:21):
It has 360 degrees of personalities that it can take on at any time with all of these different consumer types and psychographics that they're going for. And so just to make a blanket claim that they're departing from that, that's not true. Is this a big campaign? Yeah, it sure is. It's global. It's the Olympics of course, but it's going to be gone soon and they're going to be moving on to something else. And who's to say that that's not the next place that they park or that YouTube channel isn't filled with dozens of videos and advertisements for all of their different athletes on different sides of their personalities. So I think going too far with that, but if you get to the construct of the ad itself, it is to me, classic Nike. We are now focusing in on the mindset of the athlete. It isn't always just, it's the idea that I am selfish and that I am self-focused to win.
(10:14):
And that is not a new thought. I mean, look, the Michael Jordan, again, Nike there as well, but Michael Jordan documentary is all about that. And I don't think there's an athlete out there who doesn't look at this and go, oh, I recognize this. And I think that's the thing too. As soon as you get away from that band of competitive athlete, it becomes more esoteric as to whether this exists or not, but kind of where you were going before, if you are in the mix, you do have these senses and it's not about the other person. Like you said, I'm not trying to hurt or harm or you are in the way of me not wanting to lose. And I think that's a big difference. And so I think that to your point too, this generationally or this person can recognize themselves and the engine, the fire that it has to, I have to win but also know that isn't my entire person and that's not how I treat people and that I can have these two opposite things in my head at the same time. And so again, I would really just caution against these sweeping kind of statements of rather this sets the tone for Nike going forward. No, for now. And it's interesting because so different than what we're used to seeing from everybody else and classically Nike at the same time.
Colin (11:32):
Yeah, I think ultimately I am angry at the people who are angry at this ad because it's an ad first of all, and foremost, we're talking about the longest version. You're going to see of it as 90 seconds all the way down. Probably there's a 15 second version of it out there. And this isn't Nike or the athletes in the commercial or Willam, Defoe getting up and go, guys, you know what? We've been way too sensitive. Everybody. We need to hate each other a little bit more and trying to undo good work that we've done evolving as a society. It's a fucking ad. You know what I mean about sports?
Producer Dave (12:02):
Well, Nike though does have an outsized presence in setting tone and setting narrative, especially for youth culture. So I do, people are connecting to that. Some people are articulating that specifically. And so there is that, but again, I don't see this in any way moving us into a harsher reality.
Colin (12:22):
Again, it's an admission of reality. I mean, you play tennis, you still play tennis all the time. Do you ever go out there? It's okay if I lose. I mean it is okay if you lose, but you're also in your head going, I want to beat this guy
Producer Dave (12:33):
Colin. I'm just trying to get out of the court without some kind of muscle pull or strain that prevents me from playing. Again, a little saying,
Colin (12:40):
You don't want to win
Producer Dave (12:40):
Of that, I do want to win, I do. But man, boy, it's almost time for beer.
Colin (12:48):
And that is the appropriate mindset. But like I said, when you get in that moment, I'm sure there are moments when then you're real close and you're like, oh, I'm going to win this
Producer Dave (12:55):
One. I wanted to take care of it. Those little
Colin (12:58):
Moments creep up in your head.
Producer Dave (13:00):
And again, this goes back to good advertising for everyone. It's for someone. And I think that's what we're seeing here. And just because Nike can put it on a massive global scale doesn't mean this isn't a finely targeted message. Look, to me, this is aesthetically, emotionally, spiritually. This is what Nike got Nike to be Nike, and they have gone away from this type of work for a long time and there's been a lot of discussions from Mount Nike's problems and you can't put it all on. Of course their branding, they've a lot of other things, but to be clear, their messaging and creative has really been about performance marketing. You can see the gigabytes working behind their messaging in terms of things that get fed. And they've gone away from this kind of hardcore, the athlete first controversial kind of setting the lines of inner out, whether you get the full resonance of this ad or you just kind of seeing the surface. And I feel like if you're seeing the surface of this ad, you're going to be offended by it. But if you're actually seeing the depth and layers, it's more than just the names that are in the ad, which are great. It's all of the people who will never achieve that kind of status, that relate to that type of mindset. And they see the value of it.
Colin (14:12):
That's what I'm getting by asking, how do you feel when you play tennis? Because I watch that and I want to go run through a wall. I'm like, yeah, I want to go win something. Like, yes, it taps into this sort of emotion. A lot of their ads used to, and a lot of good sport marketing always has. And I think this is why it kind of gets to the point of the outdoor of it all where it's like even something like competitive ultra marathons or something like that. Usually anything in the outdoors space that has kind of born out of a more outdoorsy endeavor, you get the real top of the pyramid and then it's everybody else. The other few hundred there are there just to participate. And it's the, I'm not taking the top of the pyramid, they aren't competitive. Whoever Jim Wamsley's against, I'm sure he wants to beat the other person, but it's not the same as standing on a court or a rink or a field and looking at your opponent and then running at each other to say, who's going to win? And it's just not the same.
Producer Dave (15:03):
Right? Well, and again, it's Nike being Nike. I think that's to the most important thing. It's like we can recognize this. I will go back in the day when Nike was trying to get into skateboarding. They had a lot of fits and starts to get there. Skateboarding was really anti-authoritarian back then. It still is for sure, but it's in the Olympics now, so it's more of a mainstream endeavor as well. But they didn't know how to do it. They knew that they're there. They knew that Adidas had kind of moved into skateboarding, so how could they do it? And they bought some small brands and tried to, there was a brand savior that they had for a while, and they bought other brands in the action sports space trying to find their way and being on the outside. And I think it was with Vans at that time and some other brands, it was just more of, I was more worried that Nike would one day realize that they were Nike and come into the sport that way and all, everyone was also trying to bootstrap this and had little meager money to give athletes and no money for media that they would come in and just pay the athletes big, go big with the media and just go, boom, we're Nike deal with it.
Colin (16:09):
They decided to care. Like Charla's mother, tell them who you're, they're like,
Producer Dave (16:14):
Okay, that's right. And they did eventually do that, right? And again, the sport and culture changed and now they're a part of that big time. But it was always my worry was not are they going to out cool you in the small way, but it was just, are they going to OutCo you in a big
Colin (16:29):
Way? Well look, and there's a lot of people taking victory lap too, around their recent struggles. And I get that. Honestly, if this doesn't agree with their sensibilities, and it doesn't, I'm not here to tell you that it should. I think you chose to talk about it on public platforms, so that's why I'm talking about it now on another public platform. But to break up the fact that they had some bad quarters, bad years, they're laying people off. Look, they're going through some shit right now, but I've never once in all of the reporting been like, boy, I'm really worried about Nike. Show me 5, 6, 7 years in a row of this. And then I'll start wondering, it's Nike, they're going to
Producer Dave (17:02):
Come back. Well, again, I would just say that those quarters are tangentially related to
Colin (17:07):
Not being like this
Producer Dave (17:08):
Not being Nike. That's right. And so it all goes together. There's a lot of other decisions to get there, but I think that's what we're seeing. And for those that think that this is just kind of a meaner kind of way, I would put my bet that we'll be seeing a campaign from Nike Sun Time soon that is equally Nike and positive and uplifting and absolutely gets to the heartstrings and the emotion of sport again, because that's what they do.
Colin (17:33):
Go back to two years, four years after the Charles Barkley. I'm not a role model. They roll out, let me play about empowering young women to play sports, one of the best ad campaigns of all time. And it's just like, yep, you're absolutely right. The 360 degree purview you mentioned, that's exactly what they can do. That's what they built and they're entitled to do because they're Nike. So anyway, that's our rant for the day. Thank you for going along on that journey. And if you were one of those people posting and you're listening to this settle down, it's okay.
Producer Dave (18:03):
But Colin, how is this? Lemme just say a CG is pretty cool there. That's the outdoor connection.
Colin (18:13):
Well, we got through that. That means it's time. It's time for our weekly segment to make sure you're getting more out of the outdoors. It's time for more with Themore
(18:27):
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(19:17):
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(20:09):
Former owner Go Digital Media filed for bankruptcy for both EMS and Bob stores in June, just two years after purchasing both retailers for $70 million. Bob's announced they were closing shortly after and they ran a liquidation sale that ran through July 14th. And we now have the answer on the future of EMS, which at one time, which had going into this bankruptcy over 20 doors. But per the article in the daily, the terms of the 5 million acquisition was for seven stores only. They've already shut down, I think six in the last month. Sounds like a few more are going to be closing. The surviving locations will be Hadley, Massachusetts, Burlington, Vermont, lake Placid, New York, Saratoga Springs, New York, west Lebanon, New Hampshire, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and Conway, New Hampshire. I think the big takeaway here is the hit to outdoor retail that's going to happen in the northeast because of this.
(20:55):
EMS is the specialty outdoor retailer for many locations, many cities and towns in that area. The chain is far from the size it was at its peak in the nineties and early aughts when I think it had over 50 stores. I feel like I remember approaching that 70 plus at one point, definitely more than 50. And at the time it had expanded West even they had a location in Boulder. And for most consumers and for most outdoor consumers in New England and the Mid-Atlantic EMS is where they shop through all the ups and downs. EMS has maintained this sort of specialty shop field at REI or another large chain just could not replicate in their stores. And I personally don't know if you can be optimistic about the future of EMS, even at this reduced size. I'm basing this off of what I found on the internet, so that's kind of a fraud statement, but this is the eighth time ownership has changed hands for EMS and the third time filing for bankruptcy.
(21:50):
I remember when I was at Polar Tech a decade ago, and EMS had the same ownership of Polar Tech at the time and they were still our customer, but I remember describing EMS to somebody as your drunk uncle. The whole family was really rooting for to get their shit together because you all loved him so much. We were all EMS we're really pulling for you, man. This is going to be the time that you figure it out. And I said that three owners ago at this point, as a former EM ser, I worked there for a few years in the nineties. I'll never stop rooting for EMS, but since 1967 it's never really worked. And lastly on this topic, I had someone ping me on LinkedIn because I was posting some things about this acquisition and they didn't seem to understand why the price that it didn't seem to understand the price amount in warehouse had paid. Right. And on paper it's confusing, how do you go from $70 million to $5 million in two years? And the thing I told them, and I'll say it again here, the bottom line is that something is only worth what someone's willing to pay for it. And in this case, there was only one bidder for EMS and that bidder bid 5 million bucks. So that's what they're worth in August of 2024. Now I
Producer Dave (22:53):
Think they're going to get this home and open up the package and realize that Twitter was delivered to them instead of EMS
Colin (22:59):
To see Elon running away.
Producer Dave (23:01):
Right, right.
Colin (23:02):
Oh, you take it, are they going to do a anti advertising campaign too with all the outdoor
Producer Dave (23:09):
Brands? Wow, that's a lot of value. Just poof.
Colin (23:12):
A well-run MS Door could probably do about 5 million bucks in a year. So maybe there's a happy ending here. And Mountain Warehouse got themselves a gem of a shop or seven shops as it were. We'll see. I've reached out actually to Mountain Warehouse and their PR team to have someone from their group on the show. Hopefully that happens too. I dunno. Dave, you've been around these guys for a while. Any thoughts on Eastern Mountain sports and what this could mean?
Producer Dave (23:33):
I think drunk uncle analogy is fantastic. Look, we're a smaller industry, we're a worse off industry. Having some of these brands go away. I mean, you look at the locations that are remaining. I mean it's really like you talk about Northeast outdoor epicenters, that's the place, I mean it really is. It's to have that presence as a bummer. We need strong regionals. Again, we're not going to bring up REI in this because that's another topic, but without these regionals to counteract what's going on there, just we march to the big two kind of future that we don't want to see. We need folks like this. I mean, you look MEC up in Canada went through some of the similar kind of things and hopefully they're going to come out okay. It does seem like they're making some moves that way. I don't know if it's going to work, but we need them as well. We talk a lot about down here, but we need that same kind of force and yeah, I hope they write themselves for sure. I really do.
Colin (24:39):
Yeah, the sort of mass departure of stores is what kind of hurts. It's not like, oh, one store went out of business. To your point, it's a big, they used to have stores stretching down into Virginia. I believe they had some Chicago stores at one point. I mean there's towns now that don't have an outdoor store. So obviously you could say, yeah, REI, big opportunity. I'm not sure where their expansion plans will take them. But then we talked about 'em last week, the Gearhead Outfitters of it all. I know they've acquired some small chains, but they've also opened new doors. Here's just a prime just throw in the door open. You don't even need a lot of doors, but open 2, 3, 4 in the 95 corridor just to get some establishment. Now where there is the key player has now departed. And then the other wild card here, maybe not even a wild card, maybe actually the favorite is probably Sierra because we know that they're looking to open a lot more doors.
Producer Dave (25:27):
That does seem to be our future for sure. We're going to have fewer places, but that doesn't mean we have to give up the experience and the intimacy that comes along with kind of an outdoor specialty shop. I think we can work to continue those experiences. We'll be okay.
Colin (25:46):
Yeah, anybody out there, wherever you live, no matter where you live, if you're thinking I'd like to open an outdoor shop, consider the Northeast. They now have a need. So a new specialty shop in a lot of those places would be interesting. Alright, so the last couple of things to talk about, both coming out of the Running event, switchback trade show some news from that crew this past week. First per footwear news, the running event is going to be moving from Austin, which I believe it's always been held in Austin. I don't think it ever was held anywhere else. And it's moving to San Antonio in 2025. The last version of the running event to take place in the city synonymous with the event will be this fall before TRE heads down the road to San Antonio. The move is largely due to updates that will be happening at the Austin Convention Center.
(26:29):
Now, none of the coverage I saw mentioned if this was permanent. While they do those updates and the show may eventually return to Austin, I'm sure they'll see how it goes in San Antonio before deciding maybe it goes great and there's no reason not to, but it is a little, it's not the same obviously as or departing Salt Lake City, but you do kind of start to feel like these towns become part of the DNA of the show. So it'll be interesting to see how this goes. Now in the same story in footwear news, it was mentioned that switchback the outdoor portion of the running event, who will also, as you've heard on the show, be getting a standalone, a standalone outdoor show next spring in Nashville has added some pretty big names to this Fall's event. So not the standalone next spring, this fall at Switchback and the running event, the following brands apparently will be appearing. We've got Patagonia, Lululemon, Teva, toad and Company Satisfy and Bandit running all making their first appearance at the running event and switchback Dave Patagonia and Lulu coming out this fall. Very interesting for what it might mean for who will be exhibiting at Switchback Spring. What does this mean for who gets a little more interested when they see the Pat Patagonia is going to be there?
Producer Dave (27:39):
Well, it looks a lot like an outdoor retailer list when you start seeing brands like that coming. So yeah, I think that does definitely could lead us to conclude that perhaps Switchback might convert some of these as well. We'll certainly see, I am still looking at the headline of Moving from Austin to San Antonio. It's a little bit say It ain't so I would love to know the real reason why this is going on. So hopefully they'll come back and talk to us about the move because man, it's look, no disrespect to San Antonio whatsoever, but Austin is just such a different creature when it comes to the vibe of the show and it becomes its kind of own character. In your experience, this might be a little deep cut, but it reminds me of when Hank Scorpio gives Homer Simpson, Homer, his biggest dream is to own the Dallas Cowboys. And at the end of the show, Hank Scorpio gives him the Denver Broncos and Homer's distraught. And Marge can't understand why and Homer just looks at her. You just don't get it. You just don't get it. It's just not the same.
Colin (29:00):
That's amazing.
Producer Dave (29:01):
That's
Colin (29:01):
A good cop. But in this case, I mean if the Spurs are in town, maybe all of a sudden going to TR becomes way more exciting. You go see Web Yama for
Producer Dave (29:11):
Sure, for sure. But boy, that's just such a different vibe altogether, right? It's just a different vibe altogether and that's what I, a little questioning in terms of Tre's kind of counterculture outsider status is kind of what makes it cool. And that's
Colin (29:33):
No Austin, like one of those towns, you talk about people, if you've never been to a town and you'll say, have you been to Austin? No, but I really want to go to Austin. And so there's definitely allure if you're like, oh, I could go to the running event. Oh, it's in Austin too, and you kind of get to kill two birds, one stone kind of thing. Not to disparage the fine folks of San Antonio. I've only heard great things about people going to San Antonio. Apparently it's a wonderful town, but Austin is sort of the cool Texas town, so I will see how this plays out or if it has any downside, I'm sure it'll be okay. People are going to go to the show regardless, but it is, you lose a little bit of little shine there by losing Austin.
Producer Dave (30:08):
Right? But in terms of the brands, like you said, showing up, yeah, it definitely feels we're starting to attract a more outdoor cast of characters. I think from a switchback perspective, how this plays out in terms of just outdoor. We've talked a lot about perhaps this is the regionalism of the show kicking in and an acknowledgement that we do need to service the East and especially the Southeast a little bit more. And by just being closer, does that mean we're going to invite more retailers and folks to attend that might not make the trip further west. And if that's the case, then that's a good thing.
Colin (30:49):
Well, that's a good segue into the last story of the week here. So Switchback also announced the launch of Trailheads, a new digital site produced by Switchback, where journalist Marcus Wolf will cover outdoor industry trends and insights. Per this announcement, Trailhead will be largely focused on the specialty outdoor retailer and aim to provide resources and tutorials to two tutorials at first blush, I mean it looks like switchbacks version of the, or daily, the running event has always been focused on the retailer and education. It appears switchback will be as well, which is what Christina Henderson said when she came on the rock fight a couple of months ago. Between all of these stories, it's just a sign to me to exactly what you were just saying, they're really going for it, right? We're adding big brands. We're bringing something like Trailhead that they're going to try and differentiate in a way, it doesn't seem that Christina and her crew are content to just offer the nice East Coast alternative, but they're looking to kick in the door and say, Hey, we are now the home of the business of going outside. And frankly, that's kind of what they have to do. Otherwise, why? That was the question we had when Wes Allen came on the show and even we asked Christina, why does this exist, if not to be that, to be this sort of new home and if they're successful, and I'm not saying that Patagonia going into the running event results in Patagonia going to switch back, but it's a good start for them. It will be interesting how this impacts the larger event world in the outdoors.
Producer Dave (32:12):
Yeah, look, I agree with everything you said. It is absolutely these signs when I look at another player in the space from a media perspective, I guess I have to say, we'll see. Will this compete in the inbox or not? Or am I already being served with this type of reporting? We'll see. Yeah,
Colin (32:37):
Definitely an interesting development. I immediately subscribe to Trailhead is I want to keep tabs on what it is that they're doing. Is it more, Hey retailers, you should be doing these things to be a successful retailer? Or is it more kind of like the daily, more industry focused news and headlines and press releases and things like that. I guess we'll have to see how things shake out here
Producer Dave (32:56):
And if the first issue we see their switchback action figure, then we'll have some words,
Colin (33:02):
Oh hey, stay off our corner. All right. Or we'll make the switchback action figure and you won't like it.
Producer Dave (33:10):
Taking notes. Yeah, taking notes.
Colin (33:13):
And that's all I got. We can wrap it up there. Anything else going on that we should touch on from your point of view there? Dave?
Producer Dave (33:18):
Read the newsletter.
Colin (33:18):
Yeah, sign up for our newsletter. Come back for gear and beer later this week. I believe this Friday, Chris Hampton's going to be on talking Climbing stuff. Also believe Justin Hausman might be back on the rock flight later this week. I'm going to tease it. If it doesn't happen, it'll be next week. But look forward to that All you Haman files out there. Wednesday's episode of the Rock Fight's going to feature Owen confer. We're going to be talking outdoor retail, REI. He's got some numbers to kind of go in line with the stuff we've talked about here on the show, the last couple of weeks. Action packed week coming up here on the rock fight and on gear and beer. So thanks for listening. Go follow, go subscribe. The Rock Fights of Production of Rock. Fight LLC, our producer today. You heard him? You heard him talking. It was David Karta Art direction provided by Sarah Genser. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. He's back again. He's checking in from his European tour with Less and Jake, it's Krista Makes and he's here to sing the rock fight fight song like he always does. It will see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock
Chris DeMakes (34:11):
Fight, rock fight, rock fight, rock fight, rock fight, rock fight. We go into the rock bike where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pick bikes are about topics that we find interesting like my culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas, aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rat, welcome to the rat. Welcome to the.
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