Gear Abby: The Great Chalk Debate, Poncho Town & The Snow Poop Protocol
- colin7931
- 37 minutes ago
- 41 min read
In the latest episode of Gear Abby, host Shawnté Salabert and producer Colin True take on some of the most gloriously niche problems an outdoor brain can produce: climbing chalk ethics, poncho pride, and the logistics of dropping a deuce when everything is frozen solid. “The Great Chalk Debate, Poncho Town & The Snow Poop Protocol” leans hard into the mix of humor, gear-nerdery, and real talk that’s become the show’s trademark.
Question 1: The Great Chalk Debate
“Is it actually ethical or environmentally okay to use climbing chalk outside?” — Brit
Shawnté starts by breaking climbing chalk down (literally and figuratively). From there, she splits the issue into two layers of ethics:
1. Local ethics
Some crags ban chalk entirely.
Others ask climbers to use tinted / rock-colored chalk.
Sensitive cultural sites (pictographs, petroglyphs, sacred areas) are always a hard no for chalk.
2. Personal Ethics
If you want to go full “leave-no-trace purist,” you can:
Skip chalk entirely
Or use chalk as thoughtfully as possible:
Use chalk socks / balls instead of loose powder so you’re not creating clouds at the base.
Avoid rosin-heavy liquid chalk; look for rosin-free formulas from brands like Friction Labs or similar.
Finally, Shawnté zooms out to the often-ignored side of the ethics question: how chalk is made. She references reporting on magnesite mining and chalk manufacturing in China, where processing can involve acid baths and generate dust and gases that impact local communities and ecosystems. In other words, even “innocent” chalk has a supply-chain footprint.
Bottom line:
Environmentally, chalk use is context-dependent, not automatically evil.
Ethically, it’s about:
Knowing local norms.
Minimizing visual and physical impact.
Remembering that the rock is not your home wall.
Question 2: Poncho Town & Defensible Trail Fashion
“I’m a postal carrier in Southern California and started wearing a backpacking poncho over my Gore-Tex to keep myself and the mail dry—and I was shocked how much more comfortable it made long days in the rain. Now I’m thinking of taking a poncho on backpacking trips.Have you used ponchos on trail?And more importantly… is this a defensible fashion choice?” — Proudly Postal
Shawnté admits she recently told listeners she never takes a poncho on trail… and then offers a mini mea culpa.
Function First: Ponchos That Don’t Suck
She walks through a few purpose-built ponchos that are a far cry from the cheap trash-bag versions handed out at ski hills:
Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape
Silnylon poncho that also pitches as a tarp tent, inspired by Grandma Gatewood.
Zpacks Groundsheet Poncho
Dyneema poncho that doubles as a tent groundsheet.
Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil Nano Tarp Poncho
Another poncho/groundsheet multitasker at a slightly lower price point.
But Is It a “Defensible Fashion Choice”?
Short answer from Colin: No.Short answer from Shawnté: Absolutely yes.
Her stance:
Outdoor culture is full of loud, arbitrary fashion rules
All of that is noise. The only person who has to live with the consequences of your clothes is you.
So if a poncho makes you more comfortable, drier, and happier, then wear one.
Mayor of Poncho Town? That title is yours if you want it.
Question 3: The Snow Poop Protocol
“What happens if you need to poop outside in the winter? If I’m out fat biking all day and the ground is frozen so I can’t dig a cat hole… am I just supposed to bury it in the snow? I feel weird about that. Is there a protocol here?”— A Virgin Snow Pooper
This one sends Shawnté straight back to her first winter backpacking trip, where she… panicked, kicked snow over her offering, and spent the rest of the trip wracked with guilt about future spring hikers discovering a “petrified turd.” From that very relatable starting point, she lays down the actual winter poop rules:
The Ideal: Pack It Out
In winter, decomposition basically doesn’t happen—everything is frozen, then slowly revealed as snow melts. That means your poo is not “going away.”
Best practice:
Use WAG bags (commercial kits) where required or recommended
Or DIY a WAG system:
Large outer bag (trash or heavy-duty bag).
Smaller zip-top inner bag = the “drop zone.”
Add a bit of cat litter, sawdust, or similar to help solidify and control odor.
The Big Wall Option: Poop Tubes
For climbers and alpine folks:
“Poop tubes” = capped PVC tubes that hold individual, bagged deposits.
You:
Poop into a landing pad (some folks even use coffee filters).
Bag it.
Shove it into the tube and cap it.
It’s a lot of work—and very extra for a casual winter fat-bike—but it’s a legit, established method on long routes and in alpine zones.
Emergency Only: Snow Burial
If you’re truly caught unprepared:
Dig as deep a snow pit as you can—deeper than a standard 6" cat hole.
Do your business.
Use a stick to break it up and swirl it into the snow so it’s not a solid log that thawed hikers (or critters) will discover intact later.
Cover and disguise the site as best you can.
It’s still not ideal, but better than a surface log shrine. Snow Poop Virgin no more.
What’s In My Pack: The Humble Wind Shirt
For this episode’s “What’s In My Pack?” segment, Shawnté professes her love for one of the most underrated layers out there: the wind shirt.
She tells the story of:
Getting sent a Montbell Tachyon wind shirt years ago.
Initially writing it off as “a hope and a dream” because it:
Weighed just over 2 oz.
Looked see-through and fragile.
Then taking it to New Mexico and onto the Colorado Trail—where it quietly became her most-used layer.
Why she loves it:
Adds just enough warmth without turning her into a sweat factory.
Blocks wind; often sheds light drizzle.
Packs down to basically nothing so it’s in:
Day packs
Running vests
Fanny packs
Has survived desert trips, scrambling, and off-trail thrashing with no holes or snags.
Colin chimes in to underline the broader lesson:
Any time you put anything on your body, you retain heat.
A thin, durable, breathable wind shirt hits that Goldilocks “just right” middle ground between cold and “I’m roasting in a rain shell.”
The Takeaway
From this episode of Gear Abby, you walk away with:
A more nuanced view of climbing chalk ethics—it’s not just whether you use it, but how, where, and what it took to make it.
Permission to embrace your inner Poncho Town mayor, rain chaps and all, if that’s what keeps you dry and happy.
A clear, slightly graphic understanding of the Snow Poop Protocol, including why winter means “pack it out” whenever possible.
And a newfound respect for the wind shirt, the tiny, mighty layer that quietly does way more than it looks like it should.
As always, Shawnté and Colin remind us that there’s no one correct way to do things outside—only more or less thoughtful ways of being in relationship with our bodies, our gear, and the places we love.
Click Here To Listen On Your Favorite Podcast App
Or Just Click The Player Below!
Episode Transcript:
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:03.200 - 00:01:06.500
You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find. Like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks.
She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.
Well, hello there, my Aldrosy friends and welcome to Gear Abby, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I'm outdoor educator and writer Shantay Salibair and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, places, products and pastimes. And I want them all because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, here's how it works.
You're going to send your questions to DearGearAbbyMail.com and I'll answer a few on each episode of the and as always, joining me today is my partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abbey and the world's number one E bike hater, Colin True.
Colin True
00:01:07.060 - 00:01:23.700
You know, Shantae, we, we at the E Bike Hate Club have scored a victory in my little town of, in Southern California where they. There was an ordinance pass where people under the age of 12 are not allowed to ride E bikes. I don't think that's young.
I think that should be older, frankly. But it's, you know, we'll take what we can get.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:23.700 - 00:01:36.100
I feel like you're like any, any age, any person. Yeah, if, if all of most, I think most listeners of Gear Abbey may not be listeners of the rock fight.
So you have no idea that Colin has such a deep dislike of the E bikes.
Colin True
00:01:36.660 - 00:01:50.340
It's mostly the E mountain bikes. Unless you are of an age or of an ability that it is really genuinely the way that you get your. Gets you out on the trail.
If you're just an able bodied, younger individual, ride a fucking analog bike.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:50.660 - 00:01:51.140
Wow.
Colin True
00:01:51.620 - 00:01:54.060
There you go, getting fired up to start off here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:54.060 - 00:02:16.580
Just. Yeah, you know, sorry to everyone who had to hear that at the beginning of the episode. I don't, you know what I was going to buy.
I have an activity to tell you about. So I actually have a call next week with somebody to talk about. This is exciting.
The Professional association of Diving Instructors, which goes by the jaunty acronym padi. Yeah, that's right.
Colin True
00:02:16.580 - 00:02:17.980
I think we could workshop that name.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:18.220 - 00:02:22.820
No, I like it. I like it. It's. I've never seen that acronym before and I may never see it again.
Colin True
00:02:22.820 - 00:02:26.760
But are the diving instruct instructors professionals or is it the association professionals?
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:26.760 - 00:02:49.960
Very professional. You have to. Yeah, you got to pay big money to be in this. You probably do, actually. But no, they.
They actually invited me to come get certified and do open water diving somewhere beautiful. I do not know where.
And it's all super exciting, except for I have not decided yet whether or not to tell this woman that every time I have so much as tried to snorkel, I just end up coughing up seawater. I am terrible at it.
Colin True
00:02:50.610 - 00:02:53.490
Oh, you don't dive. You're not a scuba person.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:53.730 - 00:03:09.970
I'm not. Like, I love water. I'm a cancer. That's my sign. And so I'm a water. Like, I love water. I like being near it. I like lakes, rivers, creeks.
The ocean freaks me out. And being underwater is not the place I'm most comfortable. I'm a mountain girl. I want dirt under my fingernails, you know?
Colin True
00:03:10.210 - 00:03:15.650
Yeah. But one of the biggest perks about where you live is access to the beach.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:15.650 - 00:03:27.610
But that's why I just keep creeping eastward. I. You know what? You could probably. You're gonna. People are just.
I might get hate mail for this, but I think you could count the number of times I've gone to the beach on both my hands.
Colin True
00:03:28.010 - 00:03:32.290
That's just sad. We need to get you exact surfing next, but are you gonna learn how to scuba?
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:32.290 - 00:03:57.520
I'm gonna, you know, listen, I think this is a good thing, listeners. I. I know I. I'm telling you things I know every week on this show, but I am still a newbie in quite a lot of things.
So I just want you to know that Gear Abby is humble and she doesn't know everything. Oh, man, I am excited. I'm nervous. I'm not. You know, it's weird. We're, like, curling into. We're curling into December. Is that. I. I just.
Colin True
00:03:57.600 - 00:03:58.160
That's not.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:58.160 - 00:04:16.400
New ways of. New verbs all the time. I like to make it. Listen. Just like barrier and berrito and Bermuda Triangle.
I'm just making up new words that fit my worldview all the time. So we're going to curl into December here. We're just snaking right in there. It's like maybe it's like we're cozying up or like we're a candy can.
Colin True
00:04:17.100 - 00:04:20.860
I don't know. We're curling and now we're snaking. I don't know what we're doing here on Gear Abbey today.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:20.860 - 00:04:36.140
Curling. You know what? This is my ADHD brain speaking here, but I am formally diagnosed people. Okay? I'm not just saying it.
Curling makes Me think that's another thing I've never done. So maybe there's some Canadians or something that want to teach me how to curl at some point.
Colin True
00:04:36.460 - 00:04:37.940
And it's a Winter Olympics year.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:37.940 - 00:04:39.740
That's right. Oh, yeah. No, this is.
Colin True
00:04:40.060 - 00:04:41.500
Yeah. Coming up, 26.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:41.500 - 00:04:52.200
I feel like I should have known that. Well, let's. We're not into Olympic sports here. We're going to talk about the outdoors. So. So. Let'S open water, dive into the question.
Colin True
00:04:52.200 - 00:04:53.480
Let's curl into the first question.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:53.480 - 00:04:54.360
Let's curl right in.
Colin True
00:04:55.640 - 00:05:06.520
Dear gear. Abby. Hi. It was high exclamation point. We always honor the punctuation in the letters, and sometimes it was a period. This is an exclamation point.
I wonder if you can help me settle a debate.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:06.520 - 00:05:06.880
Yes.
Colin True
00:05:06.880 - 00:05:13.640
Is it actually ethical or environmentally okay to use climbing chalk outside? Signed Brit.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:14.360 - 00:06:08.790
Ooh. Fight, fight, fight. All right. Just kidding, Brit. I love these ethics questions. So coming.
The answer to this one is a bit complex, and I think that's especially since ethical and environmentally okay may not always overlap for all people and in all places, which we'll get to. So first, let's just roll it back here a second, as I like to do for people who are not familiar.
Climbers use chalk, which is either sold in chunks or dust form. Usually there's a liquid form.
They use it to improve their grip while they're climbing, since it dries out your skin and kind of adds a little bit of friction there. The practice began in the mid fift.
I was excited to learn this when a gymnast and math nerd, I mean, professor named John Gill, wanted to be able to do more dynamic moves without flying off the rock. So he started using gymnastics chalk, which caught on, you know, with fellow climbers. And, yeah, I thought that was pretty cool.
I was like, speaking of the Olympics.
Colin True
00:06:09.030 - 00:06:13.070
Would you say that John Gill kind of curled into the chalk or more. He snaked his way in there.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:13.070 - 00:06:26.050
He just. He just hooked. Like, hooked into. Hooked into it. No. I'm going to work on some new verbs throughout. Maybe some adjectives, maybe some adverbs.
It's going to be a real grammar grammar tastic episode.
Colin True
00:06:26.530 - 00:06:27.730
It'll be a test at the end.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:27.890 - 00:07:41.610
I am. I used to be a magazine editor, so I feel like this is my freak flag flying real high right now.
All right, so history lesson aside and grammar aside, let's start with the environmental question here. So most climbing chalk is made out of magnesium carbonate. Carbonate. Magnesium carbonate. I did not look up how to say that.
It's not the Calcium sulfate that blackboard and sidewalk chalk is generally made from. And it doesn't technically poison the environment as long as it doesn't have additives like rosin, which you will find in a lot of the chalks.
Rosin is, if you think about rosin, resin, rosin, a bow on a violin, you got resin in trees, it's very sticky, so you want to. You know, that's. That's not great. But if. If it's pure chalk, pure uncut chalk, it should wash away in the rain.
So, you know, you could be extra thoughtful if you're somewhere like the desert and one of those arid locations about whether or not you use it in the first place. But anywhere that's a lot of rain, most chalk is going to wash off pretty easily. So that brings me into the ethics question.
Which is the bigger meat of the sandwich here? And it's a layered one. The ethics sandwich, the chalk sandwich.
Colin True
00:07:42.250 - 00:07:43.370
This is a Dagwood.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:43.450 - 00:07:45.610
It's a Dag. Oh, a Dagwood. Wow.
Colin True
00:07:45.610 - 00:07:47.770
It's a bit of a coloring. My age.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:47.770 - 00:07:54.290
I was gonna say. That feels like a comic book sandwich. What am I thinking? I'm thinking of the comic that was called Blondie, right?
Colin True
00:07:54.290 - 00:07:55.930
Yeah, Blondie. Blondie and Dagwood.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:55.930 - 00:10:11.120
Blondie and Dagwood. Aw. I used to love every Sunday just reading the paper with my mom.
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel had something called the green sheet, and that was where all the comics lived. My mom would give me that and then the circulars that had all of the toys in it, and I would just sit there and hog heaven.
All right, let's get into the ethics. So I'd say, first of all, there are often local ethics that dictate how chalk should be used in any area. Some places ban it altogether.
Some ask that you use a chalk in a similar color to the rocks in that area. And in other places, there's no rules at all. It's just a free for all. You know, do your thing.
But you should never, ever, no matter what, never use it in culturally sensitive areas. So that's, you know, especially anywhere where there's pictographs or petroglyphs or, you know, anything like that.
So, you know, local ethics are one thing, but then there's also your personal ethics.
So I don't know which side of the debate you're on, Brit, but you and your sparring partner should think about how you want to be in relation to the places where you're climbing. All right? So if you want to go down the Yvonne Chouinard Leave no trace purist route, which a lot of people do.
You might decide not to use any chalk at all. Maybe you just wipe your hands on your clothes or, you know, carry a little towel on your harness and just make it work.
You can also work on your finger strength and your mental strength, and you're probably going to sweat a lot less. So, you know, try to wean yourself off the dust, if you know what I'm saying.
So, okay, so one option, Brit, is to just not use chalk at all and just tough it out.
But if you do decide to chalk it up, there are a lot of things you could do to avoid making the rock look like a bunch of Wall street guys partied on it in the 80s. First of all, you want to be thoughtful about the chalk you're choosing.
Like we just talked about earlier, you might want to choose a color that's close to the tone of the rock where you're climbing. But I'd also recommend steering clear of powdered chalk outside since it creates so much mess. It's just like clouds and clouds.
Like back in my day, I used to just shove a lump of solid chalk into a thin sock and t tuck that into my chalk bag. And what's nice is they make these. Now they're just chalk socks. I think that's what they're usually called.
Um, but yeah, it just means you're not spraying chalk dust on everyone within a 10 foot radius. So I highly recommend the sock method. There is liquid chalk, which I mentioned earlier, and you kind of rub it into your palms like lotion.
It's kind of creepy to me.
Colin True
00:10:11.120 - 00:10:14.560
But you could also use the sock method there.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:14.640 - 00:10:32.780
Oh, that's. Oh, that's a deep one. Not everyone's gonna get that. I'm sorry, this is a children. This is not a children's show.
Sorry if your children are listening, my friend Brooke told me that they were listening to an episode, she and her husband and her 2K, and I was like, I'm sorry for whatever. I said.
Colin True
00:10:33.100 - 00:10:33.580
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:34.060 - 00:10:34.580
Oh, man.
Colin True
00:10:34.580 - 00:10:36.220
Or we were educating the children. It's fine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:36.220 - 00:11:18.280
Yeah. Did they learn about horny salmon? That's great. Then that's something they can bring into biology class. Yeah. Oh, man.
But yeah, so that, that liquid chalk lotion, like chalk, is, is. There's the problem with it is that a lot of the brands do use rosin, that stuff that is sticky and bad. So you want to avoid those.
But there are some brands that make rosin free. Friction Labs is one of name very appropriate for a conversation in Wild country, so you can check those out.
Metolius also makes a product called the Super Chalk Ecoball, which I want Colin to say in his enforcer voice, please, please do it, please.
Colin True
00:11:18.680 - 00:11:20.440
Super Chalk Ecoball.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:21.800 - 00:11:26.680
Metolius. Listen, we're available for voiceovers and clearly great advertisements.
Colin True
00:11:26.680 - 00:11:28.920
A little reverb to that one, you know, Please do.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:29.400 - 00:11:40.250
Oh, my God. But yeah, so that, that a Super chalky cobalt provides that sexy friction without leaving the unsexy marks. That is not their tagline. But if they.
Again, if you want to hire us, we're available.
Colin True
00:11:40.250 - 00:11:40.890
Exactly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:41.450 - 00:12:18.970
But yeah, also use your chalk sparingly. Try not to leave those little cheat sheet tick marks everywhere. And go light when you're dusting up.
It is so disgusting to reach up for a hold only to discover it's all gummed up with a thick layer of someone else's sweat and chalk. It's just so gross. You guys know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're a climber, also bring a brush and clean up after yourselves.
You know, chalk is a visual blight on the environment. I don't know why I said blight. Like, I am an old British man from the 18. It's a visual blight on the environment. Yeah.
So really, we're really going off the rails today. Yes.
Colin True
00:12:18.970 - 00:12:20.010
I'm not. You're, you're.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:20.010 - 00:12:23.450
You're just actually quite quiet over there today.
Colin True
00:12:23.530 - 00:12:24.810
I'm just enjoying the show.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:25.210 - 00:12:56.710
So Chuck the Vision. Visual blight in the environment. It just. It doesn't look great. You know, not everyone is out there to go climbing.
So even if you're at a popular crag, this is not a climbing gym. It's not your home board. Try to leave it as good as you found it, if not better.
And before we wrap this up, I'm going to mention that there's actually a different kind of ethical question in play. Dun, dun, dun. So a couple of years back, a person with the amazing name Bradley Elf, that's a L, L, F Alf.
Colin True
00:12:56.710 - 00:12:57.310
No relation.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:57.470 - 00:14:25.850
And this is a piece that. That Bradley Alf wrote for Climbing magazine that looked into the impact of manufacturing chalk. Right, we're going back, we're rewinding.
That's an aspect I think most people probably aren't thinking about when they're preparing to go full hond out there, you know, so chalk is created from. Here's another science word for you nerds. Magnesite. Magnesite. And that most of that comes from minds in China.
So before you can start slapping it around in your callous Little paws. It needs to be processed. Like most things, it's dunked repeatedly in a mixture of hypochloric acid and baking soda.
And then you kind of press it, you heat it up, you crush it, bang, boom. There you go. You got your chalk during the entire process.
However, in this article, Alf points out that the mines and factories are just, just pumping dust and gases into neighboring communities, which, you guessed, it creates issues for, you know, human and environmental health, as you might imagine. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, it's a really interesting piece. I highly recommend you check it out. Colin will pop it in the show notes.
So, yeah, there's, there's not just the ethics of how we tend to our local environments with our choices, but the larger question of how we think about the environments where our chalk and gear as a whole is made. But I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole because I'm sure this topic is going to come time again on this podcast.
But Brit, maybe I've given you something to think about. Maybe a whole second debate to have with your buddy.
Colin True
00:14:26.010 - 00:14:35.930
I was going to defend the chalk until that last bit about how it's made. So I'm, I, I was prepared to come in hot and now I'm cooled off. Listen to Gear Abby.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:38.090 - 00:14:42.210
Well, I like to, I like to get deep sometimes here on the pod.
Colin True
00:14:42.210 - 00:14:45.610
Apparently you said you didn't want to go down the rabbit hole. I think you were in the rabbit hole when you were.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:45.850 - 00:14:57.310
I created a new, like an entire warren of rabbit holes. I think there was a tunnel system. It was, you know, like an ant colony. All right, well, save me for myself. And how about another question?
Colin True
00:14:57.630 - 00:15:01.790
Okay, here we go. Dear Gear Abby, hello from Southern California.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:01.950 - 00:15:02.430
Hello.
Colin True
00:15:02.590 - 00:15:03.430
Well, hello there.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:03.430 - 00:15:03.870
Hi.
Colin True
00:15:04.590 - 00:15:05.230
Hello back.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:05.310 - 00:15:06.350
So much hellos today.
Colin True
00:15:06.910 - 00:15:20.530
In my outdoor life, I've always spent as much as my budget allows on rain gear. Now, later in life, I'm a postal carrier and had to find a way to keep the mail dry as well.
As I began wearing a backpacking poncho over my Gore Tex rain gear.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:21.010 - 00:15:25.570
That's a lot of protective mechanisms retaining heat one body.
Colin True
00:15:26.530 - 00:15:54.070
And I've been shocked to find that this $25 item significantly aids in the comfort over the course of the day. I would never have allowed myself to pick this item in the past.
It reminds me of the quote, trash bag poncho that the ski area I worked at decades ago would give out to ill prepared skiers. The shame. But as any backpacker knows, after you've been out in the rain for more than two vanity goes out the window.
I feel like that I would bring a poncho along on trips in the future. Have you had.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:54.070 - 00:15:56.910
Oh, are we getting a question? Is this the question part?
Colin True
00:15:57.070 - 00:16:15.950
I think we're getting to the question now. Have you had any experience with using this on trail? And more importantly, is this a defensible fashion choice? Please discuss. Signed proudly postal.
I'm just gonna go ahead and say no, it's not defensible at all as a fashion choice. The rest of it makes total sense.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:17.080 - 00:18:31.370
Listen, okay, you can, you can come back for a rebuttal once I'm done. But and interject at any time, which I know you're gonna do whether or not I invite you to. And that's why people listen.
But first of all, I salute you for both delivering the mail in all weather conditions and for your creative sign off. See, I love this I people. Be, be creative. You don't need you to be anonymous. I tell you this every week.
But listen, this question is gonna ring a bell for anyone who listened to last week's episode. Didn't I just say that I ever, ever carry a poncho on trail? Right, because it would flap around in the breeze, yada yada. Yes, Colin is correct.
I said it so postal. If you listen last week you probably already know part of my answer. But okay, this is a rare thing here.
I am going to offer a mea culpa here, just a small one. And I'm going to use this though as an opportunity to talk about a bigger topic. You know, I love that we're going to go down another rabbit hole.
No history involved though. I'm so sorry. But okay, we're going to start with your question which took us about nine light years to get to.
And I'm going to break it into two parts. First, have I used a poncho on trail? Yes. Did it cover my body and pack? Sure. Until the wind picked up. Would I carry one? Again? No. Okay, but.
And here's my mea culpa.
There actually are quite a few purpose built ponchos that are designed to hang tough in the elements a little better than your regulation issue, billowy plastic nightmare.
So last week I mentioned the six moon designs Gatewood cape, which by the way is named for Emma Rowena Grandma Gatewood who was the first woman to do a solo hike of the Appalachian Trail. See, okay, I had. That is a little history, I guess.
So anyway, the Gatewood cape is made out of sil nylon and it Actually pulls double duty as a tarp tent, which makes it a pretty attractive option for minimalists and just as an, you know, emergency item you could put in your pack even while you're day hiking. So that is a very specific thing that's built for purpose, and it actually has multiple purposes, which we love.
Z Pax actually also makes the ground sheet poncho, which was named best poncho. What a. What an accolade by Treeline review.
So this is about half the way to the gatewood cape and costs about 100 bucks more because it is made from everyone's favorite super sexy ultralight material.
Colin True
00:18:31.370 - 00:18:31.850
Here we go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:31.850 - 00:18:33.290
You know what I'm gonna say, Colin? What is it?
Colin True
00:18:33.290 - 00:18:35.810
I do Lloyd Vogel's favorite.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:36.050 - 00:18:38.530
Dyneema. Can you say that in your voice too?
Colin True
00:18:39.340 - 00:18:49.020
Dyneema, I think you said that was terrifying. I think your. I think your sultry voice was better than my enforcer voice. Is that your safe word?
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:49.020 - 00:19:04.300
There is, yeah. We're gonna start an onlyfans after this episode. We need more sponsors. Okay.
So while the ground sheet poncho is not designed to be used as a tent, it is designed to act as. Wait for it. You're gonna be shocked. A ground sheet under your tent.
Colin True
00:19:04.700 - 00:19:06.260
Oh, callback to, like, two episodes ago.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:06.260 - 00:19:09.260
I know. No, I think this was also last week. Or no. Was it two episodes?
Colin True
00:19:09.340 - 00:19:10.540
No, no, it was a couple ep.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:10.840 - 00:19:13.160
Yeah. All right. Sometimes it all runs together in my mind.
Colin True
00:19:13.160 - 00:19:13.640
It does.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:14.360 - 00:19:28.680
But. Yeah. So it's another two fur. Just a different kind of two fur. The biggest drawback for me is that it only covers about half your arms.
So personally, it's dead to me. Just doesn't make sense to me in the rain. I want all my arms covered. All of my arms.
Colin True
00:19:28.760 - 00:19:29.560
All of your arms.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:29.560 - 00:19:31.640
Two of them. But also, little known fact.
Colin True
00:19:31.640 - 00:19:33.400
Girabi has 16 arms.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:33.480 - 00:20:14.140
Yeah, I'm actually Shiva. All right. Sea to summit. They also make. Make two different ponchos, including the ultra sill nano tarp poncho, which is a lot of words.
And that is actually cheaper than the ZPacks one and can also work as a ground sheet. So if you want to save a little money, go for that one. Maybe. But if you want to get a little freaky with it. I know you do. Collins.
Collins smiling right now because he does. You can pair one of these ponchos with something called. It's. The brand is three full gear. That. That's the letter. The number three F U L gear.
They're minimalist rain pant legs, which are essentially rain Pants without a crotch.
Colin True
00:20:14.300 - 00:20:15.820
Yeah, we highlighted this, I think on.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:15.820 - 00:20:37.390
One of our garage, so you can get them there. They're actually $11.99, so that's, that's a real steal for basically rain pant chaps. So, you know, if that is your. Your freak flag, let it fly.
I mean, I kind of wish we would have known about these when I was answering the question about getting busy outdoors and like, lightweight things. You right?
Colin True
00:20:37.470 - 00:20:40.390
Or when we were making fun of the gimp from Pulp Fiction a couple weeks ago too.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:40.390 - 00:21:14.010
That's right. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Listen, there's so many multi use gear. We love it.
So, I mean, personally, I'm gonna stick to my rain jacket and I actually have a rain skirt that I use in summer months. I use rain pants when it's colder out. But I might change my mind if anyone wants to send me one of these fancy ponchos to try out. Yeah.
But anyway, it's the second part of your question that, that Colin answered so really earlier. But that is actually what drew me in. So you asked as a reminder, is this a defensible fashion choice? Colin, what side did you fall on again?
Colin True
00:21:14.170 - 00:21:15.050
Oh, it is not.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:15.290 - 00:21:15.810
Okay.
Colin True
00:21:15.810 - 00:21:17.650
Have not changed my opinion in the last three minutes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:17.650 - 00:21:22.490
Okay, well, that's fine. What about the rain shop pants, though? Defensible.
Colin True
00:21:22.490 - 00:21:23.370
I'm all in on those.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:23.370 - 00:21:24.210
Yeah. I knew it.
Colin True
00:21:24.210 - 00:21:25.210
I knew it. That sounds great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:25.290 - 00:21:27.690
Yeah. Let your freak flag fly, Colin.
Colin True
00:21:27.770 - 00:21:29.330
I might have them on right now. You don't know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:29.330 - 00:21:40.120
Hey, I'm so glad I don't know. All right, so here's the thing. And this could be applied to a lot of the things we talk about on this podcast. Use what works for you. Okay?
Colin True
00:21:40.120 - 00:21:40.600
100.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:40.760 - 00:22:42.550
That's right. So if you're enjoying being mayor of Poncho Town, drape yourself to your heart's content.
If you want to wear rain chaps, razzle dazzle as postal cowboy. If you are rain killed curious, slide one over your postal trousers and see how it feels.
I feel like in the outdoor space, we get a lot of people who say that you should only wear this or that you should only wear boots when you hike. Trail run runners will mess up your ankles. Stupid. Hike in shorts. You need to wear pants. You're not a real cyclist unless you wear a matching kit.
Like, surfing in a bikini is stupid. It's just endless. Like, people constantly say shit like that. It's. It's dumb. These people are judgy assholes, my friend. Okay?
The only person who actually has to Deal with the consequences of your fashion choices is you. Okay? So do what you did here. Read reviews, ask people questions, check out stuff you're interested in in the store and then pick what you like. Okay?
A poncho is absolutely a defensible fashion choice. And that's because you don't owe anybody any kind of explanation or defense for putting something on your body that you like to wear.
Colin True
00:22:43.670 - 00:23:05.010
100% agree on that. That look, at the end of the day, you be confident about the choices you make. That said, in defense of the judgy out there, because guess what?
We're all judgy assholes. Make a Snapchat. If we see, you know, poncho Mariponcho town rolling along, you tell me you're not going to have a comment in your head.
It's going to happen. But if you, if it's for you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:05.010 - 00:23:10.330
No, it's the rain pants that I'm gonna have a comment on. The chaps I go back to like.
Colin True
00:23:10.330 - 00:23:26.450
I, I definitely am interested in talking to some of the manufacturer, the founders here of like yo God, you really. Who does this and why? Because the idea of like this is your ground cloth, man. It poured all night and guess what you get to do now?
You get to pick it up off the dirty ground full of leads and dirt and sticks and you get to put it on your body. Hey, that sounds great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:26.930 - 00:23:33.560
No, it exists for all the gram weenies out there who want to carry the least amount of stuff possible and try not to die while doing it.
Colin True
00:23:33.800 - 00:23:39.480
And that's probably who I'm judging the most. It's like, you know what, I get it. But also, yeah, carry a rain jacket. It's okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:42.360 - 00:24:51.390
Well, hello my outdoorsy friends. It's your favorite time of the week. Time to head to the official gear garage of Gear Abbey Garage Grown Gear.
Our friends over at GGG are here to make sure that all of you get the newest outdoor stuff you need for your next adventure. What kind of stuff, you wonder? Well, here's some examples. All right. You want a bear canister that you can open but bears can't.
Protect your own personal berria with the Wave 6.6 liter bear canister by Grubcan. I love that name, Grubcan. Looking for a unique way to carry your stuff on your day to day adventures?
Check out Made in the USA range of sling bags and of course the ltfp. That stands for Little Tiny Fanny Peck by Bull Moose Soft goods. That is exactly how you have to pronounce that.
And finally, why not just Rep GGG yourself with some GGG merch. This is very exciting for me.
Pick up the GGG groovy long sleeve T shirt, and you can let the world know that you're an ultralighter and that you're groovy. Whatever you're looking for. Garage Grown Gear and Gear Abbey are the perfect outdoor combo.
So get shopping by heading over to Garage Grown Gear down right now.
Colin True
00:24:52.030 - 00:24:55.550
No Gear Abbeys were harmed by making her say GGG repeatedly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:55.950 - 00:25:59.290
While daydreaming about future backpacking trips, I had an epiphany. Maybe I could have an even better time out there if I lightened my pack. That's when I decided to try out my very first trekking pole tent.
Gossamer gears the One. And honestly, it was a match made in ultralight heaven. Weighing in at just 18 ounces, the one sets up in minutes.
You set just trekking poles and a handful of stakes. And I'll tell you what, the One didn't just lighten my pack.
It simplified my camp setup so that I had more time to enjoy the natural beauty all around me and allow me to spend more time with my favorite bidet. Oh, yeah. Gossamer gear designs products for people on the move rooted in a legacy of simplification.
Their philosophy is that taking less allows you to do more.
And if you want to test this philosophy yourself, head over to gossamergear.com and use code GEAR ABBY at checkout to save $20 off your order of $100 or more. You know, Colin, all I want in this life is to see you wearing a pair of overalls with the rain jacket or rain poncho over it.
It may be the rain chaps over the overalls. I'm just saying I'm wearing.
Colin True
00:25:59.290 - 00:26:03.010
Hold on. If I'm wearing a rain jacket over my overalls, you won't be able to tell that I'm wearing overalls.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:03.170 - 00:26:06.410
Yeah, it's a poncho, but then when the wind blows it up, we'll be able to see the overalls.
Colin True
00:26:06.410 - 00:26:09.590
Like, I'm like Marilyn Monroe on the. On the. On the gray, right? Wow.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:09.590 - 00:26:14.830
All right. That's a beautiful image to. To leave things on here. So let's pop into the next question, please.
Colin True
00:26:15.710 - 00:26:21.470
Well, I have been referred to as the Marilyn Monroe of the outdoor industry before, so clearly it happens to me all the time.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:21.550 - 00:26:22.510
Wow. Okay.
Colin True
00:26:23.070 - 00:26:31.630
Okay, next question. Dear Gear Abby, loyal listener here. Love the show. I feel like there's a real kind of, like, 1920s reporter vibe to this person.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:31.630 - 00:26:32.990
Loyal listener here, love the Show.
Colin True
00:26:33.070 - 00:27:09.690
Hey there, lady. Loyal listener here. Love the show. I feel like I have the perfect question for you. Hey. Okay, we'll be the judge of that.
If this is the perfect question. All right. Actually, this might be the perfect question. Elaborating ahead. What happens if you need to poop? Actually, it's going to end right there.
It's the perfect question, right? What happens if you need to poop outside in the winter?
Like, if I'm out fat biking all day and there aren't any bathrooms around and I can't dig a cat hole because the ground is frozen, am I just supposed to bury it in the snow? I just feel weird about doing that. Is there some sort of protocol here? Yours truly, a virgin snow pooper.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:10.090 - 00:27:11.690
Ooh, another good sign off.
Colin True
00:27:11.690 - 00:27:15.690
I love it. If you're out there fat biking and you gotta take a fat dump, what do you do?
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:17.050 - 00:27:21.370
Perfect. Perfect. This question actually brings back a very visceral memory for me.
Colin True
00:27:21.450 - 00:27:22.650
I'm sure it does.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:22.650 - 00:27:28.130
You know, I am a fountain of Pooh stories. Yeah. The first time I. Fountain of poo.
Colin True
00:27:28.130 - 00:27:29.930
Are words that should never be together.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:30.090 - 00:28:08.420
That wasn't. The story phrase part is important there.
So, yeah, the first time I had to drop a deuce in the snow, I was a student in the wilderness travel course, which I think I've talked about before. I ended up teaching it for a long time.
We were doing our winter backpacking trip, and I remember just quickly pulling down all 12 of my layers and doing my business, but then my mind just went blank. I could not remember for the life of me what the hell I was supposed to do once I dropped it, you know?
So I just kind of stared at it for a second, kicked some snow over it, and then just felt guilty the rest of the trip because I just kept thinking about somebody finding my pet petrified turd when the snow melted in the spring. Anyway, yeah, this question speaks to me on a deep level.
Colin True
00:28:09.060 - 00:28:10.420
Clear. Clearly. Clearly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:11.940 - 00:28:14.980
So, okay, brace yourself, Virgin. Can I. Can I call you virgin?
Colin True
00:28:16.100 - 00:28:18.420
That's always such an insult. Whatever, Virgin.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:18.660 - 00:28:25.260
Whatever. Snow poop. Virgin. What. What does that make me? That my snow poop?
Colin True
00:28:25.260 - 00:28:29.700
I don't know. I don't. Yeah, you said you. I can't say the words proudly.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:29.700 - 00:28:33.630
Thank you. That's right. If I call it myself, I call myself that. It's very empowering.
Colin True
00:28:33.700 - 00:28:34.020
Boring.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:34.980 - 00:29:33.030
So, yeah, listen, listen to me, the snow poo poe, as I tell you a little story here, because, listen. Please, please don't use that hashtag. All right, So I don't know if you're gonna like what I'm about to say. But here's the truth.
You should be packing out your poop in the winter, not leaving it there on the ground like some stanky little snowman. Okay? You are absolutely right in thinking that you're not going to be able to properly bury it when the ground is rock solid, when it's cold out.
And you are right and feeling weird about just leaving it there for the future and animal visitors to find. You know, summer heat and moisture can speed up decomposition during that time of year, but nothing is breaking down in the colder months.
It's just sitting there like a little disgusting log. So we've talked about wag bags before on this pod. Those are the little kits that open up like a target for your duty.
I did a really great demonstration on Instagram. You can go see. And those are the best solution here.
So you could toss one in your pack when you're out on a long adventure where you might need to take a wag bag. A wag bag Bag, Yes.
Colin True
00:29:33.030 - 00:29:35.630
Yeah, clearly. What? To differentiate what you're talking about tossing in your pack.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:36.030 - 00:29:41.510
Yeah, the wag bag. Okay. Yes, thank you, Colin, for clarifying for our listeners.
Colin True
00:29:41.510 - 00:29:42.510
Okay, that's what I'm here for.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:43.310 - 00:30:25.870
But, yeah, so, you know, I've picked mine up. You can get wag bags usually at ranger stations and areas where they're commonly used. The desert, the Whitney area, Shasta.
Like certain areas, you can pick up wag bags. You can also buy them online or at some of the outdoor shops. You can also just make your own. It's not as hard as you might think.
What you basically want is you want that big outer bag of some sort that you can kind of seal everything into. Then you want a smaller zip top. The zip is very important here. You want a bag that seals on the inside. Okay, that's your.
That's going to be your drop zone. And you want to put a little bit. If you have cat litter, you could put cat litter or sawdust, if that. That's easier for you.
Put it in there to help with moisture absorption. And there you go. Bob's your uncle. You made your little wag bag.
Colin True
00:30:26.980 - 00:30:28.500
What does Bob's your uncle mean?
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:29.460 - 00:30:31.060
Haven't you seen Austin Powers?
Colin True
00:30:31.460 - 00:30:31.780
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:31.780 - 00:30:33.620
And there you go, baby. Bob's your uncle.
Colin True
00:30:33.860 - 00:30:38.140
Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Little deep cut, but okay, I'm with it. Go ahead.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:38.140 - 00:31:38.000
That's right. I think it's a British saying. You know what the British probably aren't saying is these two words. I'm about to say together, which is poop tube.
This is another method you can use. Climbers use this all the time on big wall climbs in some of the alpine environments. So this is how this works. And it's kind of. It's not.
You may have a very strong visual right now, but let me describe it to you. So you're going to do your business into some sort of landing pad.
I've actually seen people talk about using coffee filters for this, saying they're the perfect option. That makes me very glad that I'm an espresso drinker. And then you're going to chuck the whole thing into a small sealable bag again. Sealable.
Seal it well. Then you're going to cram that bag into a PVC tube that's capped on both ends. You're going to unpop one end, put the bag in there, recap it.
And that is a whole lot of effort for single day activities. But it is an option if you want to look like, you know, a weirdo carrying a giant PVC tube full of poop out there.
You know, I don't want to limit you. We don't. What do we not do on this podcast, Colin?
Colin True
00:31:39.440 - 00:31:40.240
Kink shave.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:40.240 - 00:31:40.800
That's right.
Colin True
00:31:41.440 - 00:31:42.680
Is this kink shaming?
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:42.680 - 00:31:43.600
I mean, it could be.
Colin True
00:31:43.600 - 00:31:50.960
This is more poop shaming. Who's that? I need a climber to write in who does this, and I just need to know the upsides of. I'm sure it's a thing. Gear. Abby's talking about it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:50.960 - 00:31:51.920
It's a thing. It's a real thing.
Colin True
00:31:51.920 - 00:32:01.680
I need. I want. I want a. I want an experience. Experienced poop, tuber, tube, pooper, whatever. Poop tuber.
That works too, right in this sounds like Alex Honnell.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:02.080 - 00:32:09.240
You're available. You know, we could have asked you anything, but I think this might be the ultimate question.
I feel like he's probably talked about this before, in fact.
Colin True
00:32:09.240 - 00:32:09.760
Yeah, right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:10.000 - 00:32:10.480
I don't know.
Colin True
00:32:10.480 - 00:32:21.040
He probably just like. I just actually, I have such a diet that I absorb every calorie that I have and I maximize it all. And I don't ever poop. So it's.
But anyway, I need to understand the tube pooping a little more.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:21.440 - 00:32:25.840
You know what, Google? At your own discretion. I've described as much as I'm willing.
Colin True
00:32:26.060 - 00:32:27.420
Okay, okay, that's fair.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:27.420 - 00:32:31.460
I have not tried that option. I want to be clear about that as well. I only poop in toilets.
Colin True
00:32:31.460 - 00:32:33.980
That makes me so happy that you have not.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:35.020 - 00:33:24.080
I haven't crossed that threshold yet. And I do not plan to, but I will not judge anyone who does.
But listen, if you can't bring yourself to do either of those things, or if you have an emergency need to drop trowel and you're just not prepared, you can bury it in the snow as a last resort. Okay, you're going to need to dig as deep as you can. Like go full on drop toilet, ditch digging here. At least deeper.
Little deeper than the 6 inches that's normally recommended for cat holes. So you're going to do your business and then again, I'm sorry for the visual.
You're going to use a stick or something and you're going to swirl it around in the snow. The idea is that you want to break up the solids so that it's not just petrifying out there. Okay?
You're going to help it become one with the earth again. Gross. But probably not as gross as squatting over a coffee filter. I don't know. I mean, it really depends on your.
Colin True
00:33:24.080 - 00:33:25.350
No, this is way grosser.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:26.780 - 00:33:46.460
Oh, man. But here, listen, Colin, this isn't gross. This is. This. I'm gonna. We're gonna end on a high note here.
If you have a body that operates like clockwork, you can also try to plan ahead to avoid having to do this in the first place. I am blessed with regularity.
So I just have a glass of warm water, a little bit of a carby snack in the morning, and like 20 minutes later I'm ready to go. That's my. That's my solution.
Colin True
00:33:46.860 - 00:33:54.300
I just. I'm trying to like. Are we gonna call this episode, you know, party picture Poop tubes and. And snow slurries? I mean, what is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:54.700 - 00:33:58.200
Leave the slurry out of it. I didn't. Okay, gross.
Colin True
00:33:58.200 - 00:34:00.120
You implied it. You implied it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:02.200 - 00:34:14.520
Oh, man. Well, I. We're. We're rolling into the end of the episode here. We're cur. Curling into it. If we're still curling, maybe now we're springing into it.
Leaping. What do you got? What are we going to end on? What kind of note?
Colin True
00:34:14.840 - 00:34:25.400
Hold on. I have to queue up a sound effect for this one. Okay, it's time for the gear nerd's favorite segment. What's in my pack?
That's a sound effect I have over here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:25.400 - 00:34:26.400
Oh, I love. Love it.
Colin True
00:34:26.800 - 00:34:28.160
What's in my pack?
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:29.440 - 00:34:30.040
Wait, that's.
Colin True
00:34:30.040 - 00:34:35.840
Oh, gear. Abby, what's in your pack this week? It's very. There are variations on the sound effects.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:35.840 - 00:34:46.400
Wow. When you say it, it reminds me of the s. It took me A while.
Because last time you said it in the same tone, and I realized what it was is you sound like up David S Pumpkins.
Colin True
00:34:46.480 - 00:34:50.960
I love David S. Pumpkins. But I'm not saying it. It's a sound effects machine that I have right here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:51.040 - 00:35:04.750
I know, but you saying it, that's. That's what I get in my heart. Ah, well. All right.
So there are people who are going to be thrilled about this and people who are going to be deeply confused about what I'm about to say, but I'm going to tell you about how I fell in love with wind shirts as an essential layer.
Colin True
00:35:05.470 - 00:35:08.190
You're going to say a PVC pipe that you took rock climbing once.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:08.670 - 00:35:13.030
You know, we didn't even take the opportunity, by the way, to make any, like, laying pipe jokes. So that's.
Colin True
00:35:13.030 - 00:35:17.150
Oh, my God. Disappointed. Damn it. Yeah, we should just end the pod right now.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:17.150 - 00:35:20.110
There's somebody who listened and was like, that's a missed opportunity.
Colin True
00:35:20.820 - 00:35:21.780
Very, very much so.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:21.940 - 00:35:24.500
I apologize to everyone. For the seventh time, I made a.
Colin True
00:35:24.500 - 00:35:30.100
Sock jerk off joke, but I couldn't think of laying pipe when we had the pvc. Damn it. I'm so disappointed.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:30.580 - 00:36:33.390
I much prefer a poop joke. Calling just for future reference, I think probably the listeners would, too. All right, so anyway, wind shirts, they are not. It's not a windbreaker.
It's not a wind jacket. It is a wind shirt. Although many of them have zippers. So listen, it's basically a lot thinner than a rain jacket. Like, really thin. And it.
It makes it more breathable, but the weave is tight enough to prevent w. You know, to give you wind protection. It can even. A lot of times, they're actually a little water resistant. Water will usually beat up on them.
It really depends on what they're made out of. But my backstory is that back in the glory days of 2018, the good folks at Montville. Yeah, Remember that?
Remember when we didn't know about global pandemics? Things. So many things. Things. I was younger then. Weren't we all? But anyway, back then. So the people at Mont Bell sent me their.
It's the tachyon wind shirt. I think they called it the tachyon parka. And they sent it to me to try out.
And I remember pulling it out of the box and immediately thinking, this thing is.
Colin True
00:36:34.030 - 00:36:34.550
Yeah, right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:34.550 - 00:36:54.570
Yeah. It just. It weighed nothing. It was. It's just over 2 ounces. Looked like it was made out of a hope and a dream.
You know, I could ball this thing up in my fist and still have room in there. I figured it would rip if I even gave it a stank Ey. So this thing, I. I not have high hopes when I was trying it, so.
And I had heard of wind shirts leading into this. I don't know. Are you familiar with wind shirts, Colin?
Colin True
00:36:54.570 - 00:36:55.490
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:55.490 - 00:36:58.250
All right. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Colin True
00:36:58.810 - 00:37:08.650
No, but it's. It's. It's the same as, like, your first interaction with Alpha, and I've had that, too.
When you're looking at something like, fools, this could not possibly work, you know?
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:08.810 - 00:37:22.070
Right. Yeah, this does kind of hearken back to that conversation. I just love talking about materials.
But, yeah, so I. I'd heard of wind shirts before my little special delivery came in. But honestly, they seemed like something ultra runners carried as kind of their oh, shit piece.
Colin True
00:37:22.150 - 00:37:22.550
Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:22.790 - 00:38:48.020
Thrown over their little tank top and booty shorts while they were out there if the weather turned.
And being someone who is not an ultra runner and who is also deeply wedded to carrying a traditional rain jacket, as we've all learned, I did not really understand where a wind shirt would fit in my quiver, as we say. But being a good outdoor rider, decided to try it out.
So I took it on a trip to New Mexico, where I think we experienced every single season in the span of a few hours. It was really something. Felt like Wisconsin Johnson. Um, but yeah, as soon as the breeze picked up, it started spitting rain.
Then there were light snow flurries. Like, everything happened that day. And all I had with me was this little wisp of nothing.
And so I was like, well, whatever, I'm just gonna throw it on. Cause it was the only thing I had. And I was shocked at how much warmth it added. Almost immediately, I was like, all right, what is this wizardry?
So I trusted it. Not that long after, I took it out on the Colorado trail with me. And honestly, I kind of threw it in there as an afterthought.
I was like, I can just send it home at my first resupply stop if it sucks. But the joke was on me because that windshirt became my favorite layer on the whole trip.
I would pop it over my hiking shirt in the morning when it was kind of cold, but I didn't want to overheat in my puffy. I'd wear it when there was light rain and wind.
I wore it as my camp shirt in the evenings, and I wore it with my rain pants when I was doing my laundry. So it was my laundry outfit for everything else.
And this is a real mark in the plus column, I remember being very impressed that it took at least a week and a half, half for that thing to smell like armpits.
Colin True
00:38:48.580 - 00:38:49.660
So pretty good.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:49.660 - 00:40:12.770
Yeah. And I'm. I'm strong. I have a. I think we've discussed this on the podcast. Yeah, that's right. Just a factory over here.
Um, so, yeah, it is still my favorite layer. Just because it's so versatile. It's so portable. It's small and light enough that I take it on almost every single trip I go on.
I just toss it in the bag. I carry it in fanny packs when I'm out walking. I throw at my running vests when I'm out running.
It's just the right layer for me to add just a tiny bit of warmth and protection without turning me into a one moment sweat factory, you know, because I am again, a prolific sweater. But yeah, like, one last thing.
I think despite how flimsy that thing looked to me, the windshirt, it is shockingly durable, at least the one that Mont Bell made. I have worn it in the desert, scrambling in the mountains, fighting off trail in the forest. It does not have a single hole or snag on it. It's.
It is freakish how strong that thing is.
I think the only issue I've ever had, and this is absolutely user error, is that I threw it in the dryer by accident and the zipper got all screwed up. But I sent it to Mont Bell and they repaired it for me for free. It was absolutely a delight.
But I. I'm sad to tell you all that they don't make this one anymore. They have other wind shirts you can go to their site and look for them, but they don't make the tachy. And so it's kind of a collector's item now.
That's right. Right. But yeah, I mean, I am not letting this thing go. It's my little emotional support layer and you have to pry it out of my dead cold hands.
Colin True
00:40:13.410 - 00:40:53.210
Yeah. The wind shirt is actually a really, I think, underrated piece of apparel. And by the way, Mountain Hardware makes some good wind shirts as well.
And it's usually it is a made from a stretch woven, which is something like maybe a pair of like synthetic shorts would be made out of. Which means it's going to be a versus, like alpha, which is a knit, which means it's more prone to snagging things like that.
A woven is kind of done in a way where it's going to have a little bit more abrasion resistance and usually with Yarn that will actually be. Be abrasion resistant like nylon and things like that. Sometimes maybe they put a little coating on it.
But I think the thing that I think the point you make and this kind of is a hack that only people who probably go outside a fair amount learn is that anytime you put something on, you're gonna retain some heat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:53.210 - 00:40:53.650
That's right.
Colin True
00:40:53.650 - 00:41:33.360
And I think. Right. I mean, how many times we all. I did it the other day. It's fall here where we're recording in North America. America.
And I had the like, ah, you know, the. The sun's just peeking out after it was kind of cloudy and raining. I'll throw on this hoodie. And within five minutes I wasn't even hiking.
It was just like on a walk. I'm like, oh my God, I'm taking this thing off because I'm sweating.
So it's that, that seasonal thing and then the spring, you always maybe leave a little too much on or you don't put enough on. Whatever it is that this kind of layer is that kind of like you said, it's that sweet spot, easy, easy to pack, easy to put on.
But yeah, it's going to retain heat. It's not even, even like, you know, it's just not gonna. It doesn't dump heat like maybe you expected it to. And it just doesn't have.
But it's just enough of a bump to keep you comfortable when you otherwise wouldn't be.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:33.440 - 00:41:39.200
That's right. It's the middle bear in the. In the Three Bears in the forest. The baby bear.
Colin True
00:41:39.360 - 00:41:47.280
Baby bear. It's called Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Very famous story, Shantae. I'm not sure if you've heard of it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:47.760 - 00:41:50.040
I don't know what just happened there. Wow.
Colin True
00:41:50.040 - 00:41:51.840
I don't know where middle bear. Listen, I.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:52.560 - 00:41:55.160
Because it's the middle one. Isn't that the one that's just right?
Colin True
00:41:55.160 - 00:42:01.300
The baby. The baby was just right. The father. The dad's bed was too hard. The mom was too soft of the baby bear was just right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:03.140 - 00:42:07.060
Wow. I am. In my defense, nobody has read that story to me in a while.
Colin True
00:42:07.060 - 00:42:09.780
Okay, well, it is curled right into that story, didn't we?
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:09.940 - 00:42:53.400
Curled right out of it, apparently. Oh, man. Well, that's it for this episode of Gear Abby.
Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor people, places, products and pastimes over to Dear Gear Abby at Gmail, and I'll do my best to answer them or find someone else who can. And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the pod.
This is all super important and it really makes us feel good inside. And if you're an Instagram user, follow us on Insta eerabypod In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and Colin True.
Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert and I'm Chante Celebr. And remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.