MEC Buyer Revealed? Plus: A Retailer's Response To The REI Exclusivity Rumors
- colin7931
- Apr 28
- 39 min read
Colin is joined by Producer Dave and Outdoor Industry Insider Eoin Comerford for an update on who might be buying Canada's MEC. (04:47)
Then they're joined by independent retailer Wes Allen to get his reaction and thoughts to last weeks rumors that REI is putting the squeeze on their brand partners to get new product exclusivity. (21:33)
Lastly for The Parting Shot, Eoin focuses on a leaked presentation from the Department of the Interior that details all the terrible ways that the Trump administration will be treating our public lands and Colin has a bone to pick with a new company who is seeking to take the outdoors and bring it inside. (39:55)
Check out hundreds of wildly cool products by visiting and shopping at Garage Grown Gear!
Register For Obōz Trails For Tree Challenge at trailsfortrees.com.
Sign up for NEWS FROM THE FRONT, Rock Fight's weekly newsletter by heading to www.rockfight.co and clicking Join The Mailing List.
Please follow and subscribe to The Rock Fight and give us a 5 star rating and a written review wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to pick a fight with The Rock Fight? Send your feedback, questions, and comments to myrockfight@gmail.com.
Click Here To Listen On Your Favorite Podcast App
Or Just Click The Player Below
Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.240 - 00:00:51.800
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True and today we'll be talking about the potential sale of MEC before getting the retailer perspective on last week's REI exclusivity rumors.
And before we get to that though, guys, be sure to come back to the Rock Fight this Wednesday where I will be joined by Gear Abby herself, Shantae Salibair to run through some outdoor headlines and then come back to the show this Friday for an OG Rock Fight solo episode.
And then lastly, I need you to subscribe everybody to both the Rock Fight and also to Open Container, the newest Rock Fight podcast that is hosted by outdoor industry legend Doug Schnitzbahn. All you gotta do is tap the follow button on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on right now and then head over to Open Container.
Do the same thing over there. You'll get all the Rock Fight content you want. So stick around. We'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:51.840 - 00:00:55.780
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:01:00.260 - 00:02:30.992
Today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking. And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk.
And right now we're going to count five of the ways that we love hiking. Number one, you can go solo or bring a crew. Both come with their own drama, so tread lightly.
Number two, no two trails are exactly the same, but your legs won't care by mile six. Number three, you get to earn your hot chocolate, your beer or whatever. You know what I'm talking about. Guilt free carbs, baby.
Number four, hey, hiking builds confidence, especially after you dominate that quote unquote moderate trail that tried to kill you.
And number five, for every hike completed over a mile long during the month of April, Oboz will plant a tree as part of its Trails for Trees challenge. For each hike completed, participants will also receive chances to win weekly prizes from Oboz and Challenge partners.
Registration is free and still open right now@ TrailsFortrees.com this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz, a Bozeman, Montana maker of the katabatic collection that includes the Katabatic LT and the Katabatic wind. Check out the full katabatic footwear collection@obozfootwear.com today. Oboz love hiking. You're listening to Rock Fight Radio.
Oh, you got DJCT back with you spinning the hits. And it's that time because we have another new song from that hit machine, Fitz.
And Fitz wants to ask you why just settle for a smart sock when you can opt for a smarter sock?
FITS!
00:02:31.056 - 00:03:40.974
You've got a million choices lyin on the floor Thin ones, thick ones even some you never wore but there's a sock who specs rise above the rest don't settle for a smart one when the smarter sock is best option 4 the Smarter Sock fits fits this the smarter sock fits Whole foot comfort is the answer to the question of the knit fits Opt for the smarter sock Whole foot comfort is the goal it's only common sense. With four different pack tents, the difference is immense. The Y lines added volume really is legit to the next level.
Comfort of the fit we call fits opt for the smarter sock fits fits is the smarter sock fits Whole foot comfort is the answer to the question of the knit fits Opt for the smarter sock fits off foot the smarter sock fits fits is the smarter sock fits Whole foot comfort is the answer to the question of the knit fits Opt for the smarter sock fits.
Colin True
00:03:41.102 - 00:04:04.054
And now back to the show. All right, I'm here with producer Dave and Consiglieri to the rock fight, outdoor industry insider Owen Comerford.
Guys, my, my Lem switchbacks that are on the way. I got confirmation. I got my sandals coming. So. So we're going to get to do the big switchback versus bedrock bedrocks review.
You know, we're going to see. We're going to see which ones win in the. In the. In the big sandal debate.
Producer Dave
00:04:04.102 - 00:04:05.766
The next. The next sandal debate.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:05.798 - 00:04:08.726
You don't want to throw the tread labs in there, too? No.
Colin True
00:04:08.798 - 00:04:10.982
Who's tread? You love tread labs.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:11.046 - 00:04:12.774
I do. I love my tread labs.
Colin True
00:04:12.902 - 00:04:18.006
Yeah. Do you. Do they look good? I just. I didn't like the way they looked when I first saw them. There was not. I was like, eh.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:18.198 - 00:04:23.110
Well, now, did you go with the one with the. What are the toe post. Whatever that thing is called. The thong.
Colin True
00:04:23.190 - 00:04:28.030
I don't know. The one I saw had a little, definitely a like, you know, retirement home vibe vibe going on. You know.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:30.410 - 00:04:32.030
Maybe that's why I like it.
Colin True
00:04:33.370 - 00:04:35.110
You did just buy a boat.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:35.610 - 00:04:41.762
Yeah, maybe. God. Okay. It's just comfortable as hell.
Colin True
00:04:41.906 - 00:04:44.754
Yeah, I bet. Hey, Mark Pagan. He knows how to make a shoe.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:44.882 - 00:04:46.830
He does. He does know that.
Colin True
00:04:47.530 - 00:05:26.572
So. Today's shot is presented by Garage Grown Gear, your hub for ultralight gear.
Learn more by heading to garagegrowngear.com and we're going to start today in the great white north because on the January 20 episode of the Rock Fight, Owen came on the show and talked about rumors that MEC had either been sold or was about to be sold amid other reports that MEC had also fallen behind in their vendor payments.
Owen, you told us back then that Kingswood Capital management had bought MEC back in 2020, and so the time was about right that they'd be looking to sell off one of Canada's biggest outdoor retailers. And now there are new details coming out about who could be the front runner to buy mec. What have we learned, Owen?
What's going on before we dive in there?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:26.596 - 00:05:41.068
Just for our listeners that may not be familiar with mec. So MEC used to stand for Mountain Equipment Co Op, and it's basically the REI of Canada.
I'm sure they hate being called the REI of Canada, but basically that's what they are. They started out.
Colin True
00:05:41.124 - 00:05:42.960
Do they also demand exclusivity?
Eoin Comerford
00:05:43.540 - 00:05:44.252
Probably.
Colin True
00:05:44.396 - 00:05:45.052
Probably.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:45.196 - 00:06:02.136
No, they're not big enough for that. But actually they started right across the border in Vancouver, right across the border from Seattle. So they were very much the REI of Canada.
And if you went into their store, you would, as an REI customer, you'd be very comfortable in their stores. Lots of private brand stuff, et cetera.
Colin True
00:06:02.248 - 00:06:09.420
I think we said when you were on, when we talked about this before, though I do prefer ME C stores to REI stores. I think it's a better shopping experience, personally.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:10.240 - 00:06:16.584
Yeah, I've only actually been to one NBC, which is the one in Toronto on Kings Road, I think. But it was lovely store.
Colin True
00:06:16.712 - 00:06:17.500
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:18.160 - 00:07:57.850
But anyway, so then when Kingswood bought them, they lost the co op status. They became Mountain Equipment Company, still NBC, and then here we are.
But yeah, so what we've learned is, and this was kind of like, for me, I'm this geek, right? So I'm trying to figure out who is it? I'm kind of talking to a bunch of people, trying to get a bunch of sources.
It went in front of the competition committee in Canada, which basically is kind of like their ftc, which would. Which would indicate if it's going in front of the competition committee, it was probably another retailer. So was it Canada Tire?
You know, was it, you know, was a Mountain warehouse looking to expand even further because they have 44 stores in Canada? So I had all these different theories going, and it turns out I was wrong on all of them because it's actually a guy called Tim Goo.
And Tim is actually.
He is a bit of a mover and shaker in the apparel segment within Canada So he is the president of a company called Estar International and they're an apparel manufacturing and sourcing company that specializes in what they call functional athletic apparel. And so it's like yoga running, that kind of stuff.
And their clients have included Canada Goose, Fila, Reebok that do some work for Walmart and they have manufacturing and sourcing both in Canada as well as in Asia. So decently sized player. It would appear that Mr. Gu owns. I hope I'm not killing the pronunciation of his last name. It's Gu.
Colin True
00:07:58.230 - 00:08:02.318
No relation to the energy gel brand in Berkeley, California maybe? I would assume.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:02.414 - 00:08:04.090
No, I don't think so.
Producer Dave
00:08:04.550 - 00:08:06.174
In the room at the same time.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:06.342 - 00:08:24.944
But. But he, he owns Estar through Smart Investment Ltd.
Which is a vehicle that also has stakes in iconic Canadian brands like Tilly that people and Roots the, you know, the well known sort of, you know, whatever leisure wear. I don't know, I don't know what you call street fashion.
Colin True
00:08:24.992 - 00:08:26.100
Yeah, streetwear.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:26.840 - 00:08:32.660
Yeah, yeah, I think that didn't. They didn't Roots do the Canadian Olympic uniform anyway?
Colin True
00:08:33.000 - 00:08:33.984
Yeah, they did.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:34.072 - 00:08:43.872
And commercial real estate. So, you know, this guy is definitely a mover and shaker in the Canadian space. So yeah, so that is the deal.
Colin True
00:08:43.976 - 00:08:47.760
And plenty of crossover into the kind of MEC realm with a lot of these brands too.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:47.800 - 00:09:17.522
Oh sure. And as I said, MEC has a very large private brand presence. I believe it's over 50% of their sales are private brand packs, tents.
So it's not just apparel, although there's a lot of apparel. So clearly ESTAR is going to bring a lot of really deep capabilities there and can hopefully take that to the next level.
And also obviously Tim has a record of working with Canadian brands, so yeah, I think it's a good thing.
Colin True
00:09:17.546 - 00:09:18.110
And.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:19.930 - 00:09:51.192
A lot of NBC loyalists really reacted poorly, as you would imagine, to A losing co op status and B, having it owned by a U.S. company. And obviously those situations haven't improved in the last. Not at all likely exacerbating. I think this is going to be pretty welcome.
Can you imagine if REI became a private company that was owned by some Russian oligarch? I mean, that's kind of what you're talking about here. From a Canadian perspective.
Producer Dave
00:09:51.256 - 00:09:53.576
If you go to Reddit, that's already happened.
Colin True
00:09:53.768 - 00:09:56.260
What do you mean? Oh, yes, right, good point.
Producer Dave
00:09:56.960 - 00:10:01.800
I'm pretty sure there are multiple threads about the conspiracy of the Russian oligarchs.
Colin True
00:10:01.960 - 00:10:03.960
Controlling the Russian American oligarchs. That's fine.
Producer Dave
00:10:04.000 - 00:10:05.864
Yeah. Well, not there.
Colin True
00:10:06.032 - 00:10:20.756
When did things really start to kind of get wobbly for MEC. And so they were sold in 2020. How are things leading up to that?
Because I'm thinking about the, if you've been a long time employee, you know, when was, when was the last time there's been some stability, really it was.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:20.828 - 00:10:37.988
In 2018 and 2019. They hit some major financial issues and then ended up going bankrupt. Going into administration, as they call it in Canada, sounds so much nicer.
They're so much nicer. Yes.
Colin True
00:10:38.084 - 00:10:48.960
You're like, you know, if you have to deal with the bankruptcy and you're like you're trying to get a loan afterwards. I went bankrupt versus well, this came out of administration. I'm trying to get back on my feet, you know, like such a nice story.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:49.340 - 00:11:33.328
So much nicer.
But yeah, so they went through bankruptcy and it was basically find an outside investor or a buyer which kings would end up being or actually fold the whole thing.
So I think the good news for NBC employees is that a, they've got somebody with some good solid financial backing that's bringing more to the table than just a private equity view of the world.
Also actually that it's not another retailer that's buying them because if another retailer buys you, then there's a good chance there's going to be some consolidation and quote unquote synergies, which is Latin for firing people. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's hopefully a really good outcome for all involved.
Colin True
00:11:33.504 - 00:11:44.460
What about for customers? You know, how do you think if you're, if you are a longtime MEC customer, maybe you're a little hurt about the loss of the co op.
Like how do you feel like this plays out if you're paying attention to these things?
Eoin Comerford
00:11:45.120 - 00:12:11.390
Well, I mean, I don't think they're getting the co op structure back. So I think that ship has sailed.
But I do think moving back to Canadian roots, Canadian designed product, potentially Canadian manufactured product, which is something that Eastar also brings to the table, I think could actually resonate pretty well right now and it might be a chance for NBC to win back some of the customers that they lost over the last few years.
Producer Dave
00:12:11.560 - 00:12:32.350
Yeah, I think plugging them into an already existing product development cycle, a little more contemporary, at least from the roots perspective, could really benefit mec. I mean, talking about them as the rei, they've also pretty seen as middle of the road from a design and trend perspective.
So I think this could really help them.
Colin True
00:12:33.290 - 00:12:49.750
Is there just roll with me here for a second. Is there a case to be made for the problems that REI has had and been dealing with in the court of public opinion.
You know, Dave, you mentioned the whole Reddit, you know, kind of not a lot of fans of REI on Reddit that they should just punt on being a co op.
Producer Dave
00:12:49.870 - 00:12:55.670
That was the fans, Colin. Yeah, no, I quoted the fans. That's you. You don't want to. You don't want to hear the non.
Colin True
00:12:55.710 - 00:12:58.886
Fans, they love you so much that they're just ripping you all the time.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:59.038 - 00:12:59.366
Yeah.
Colin True
00:12:59.398 - 00:13:10.334
I mean, is there a case to be made for that where they just sort of like, took that off the table? Like, you don't have to worry about that anymore. It's just like, I mean, is it. I know, I understand.
It's so rooted in who they are, but, like, is this. Is that kind of a crazy solution to some of their problems?
Eoin Comerford
00:13:10.502 - 00:14:03.630
I don't think it's a solution to any of their problems, quite frankly. No. Because the co op is so core to who they are. If you did that, you would lose so many, alienate so many customers.
That would just be the start of your problems. And I don't know that the co op structure has really hurt them. I mean, yes, to a degree.
If the co op structure ever hurt rei, it was because it almost created a disincentive to make a lot of profits and to sort of build up a cash war chest that then would have seen them through this.
And there are some limitations, I think, around things potentially there's a level of conservatism around things like loans and those sorts of things. But, yeah, losing that structure, I think would be really, really tough.
Colin True
00:14:03.970 - 00:14:32.022
Yeah. Like I said, I wasn't sold even on the idea as I was saying it, but I just think of criticism. You hear the lot.
And it's, you know, from the union folks and everything. It just constantly. Well, you're not acting like a co op. You're acting like a company. You're doing all of the, you know, the.
Those sort of the accusations being levied at them by certain folks. And, you know, and I kind of look at that like, well, you know, what. What are you still gaining from this versus, you know, what it might do for you?
But, yeah, I hear you. I mean, it's obviously so core to who they are.
Maybe they should probably get back to thinking a little more like that, and maybe that would solve some of their problems for them.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:32.206 - 00:15:21.200
But I think part of. Part of that critique, so to speak, is this concept that a co op is almost like a commune. Right. It's like this Sort of leftist construct. Right.
And therefore it's progressive and therefore it should support unions and these other things. And that's actually not what it is. Right. A co op is there and exists for the betterment of its members. Okay.
That is the people that are retail customers of rei. And so is it in the members interest to support unions? Maybe, maybe not. Right.
But I think this idea that co op equals progressive equals leftist equals you must support unions. I don't think that that's necessarily true.
Colin True
00:15:21.360 - 00:15:46.844
I think that's ultimately where I'm going with this. Right. And probably you're right. It's a misunderstanding of what they're actually criticizing. Right.
And that's kind of why I'm like, oh, God, at some point just wipe it away and take that off the table. Which I agree. Not the right idea. Maybe. The thing is, hey, start a PR to kind of take the word back in a way. How do you do that?
Which, I mean, they're always on. They've been on their heels for so long, that's probably not a fight that they're willing to pick right now. Why would you.
But if at some point they kind of things kind of stabilize, I would wonder if that would be a smart thing to do.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:46.932 - 00:16:15.456
Yeah, they leaned into the co op thing. I mean, for. For a long time it was just the REI logo.
They actually moved back to the REI with co op as part of the logo, I don't know, five or six years ago. So they've leaned into the co op piece. And so maybe part of that identity is part of what's getting people wound up.
But again, I don't think that the two are necessarily hand in hand.
Producer Dave
00:16:15.528 - 00:16:28.864
Well, you mentioned the change put in the logo. I hate to be cynical, but I feel it was more of a what's brand trendy. So.
Oh, let's lean into something that we already are and start promoting it in a way that they had gone away from.
Colin True
00:16:28.952 - 00:16:35.908
As if they couldn't do arrows and an axe. So they went with co op, basically kind of thing. And then they could have done arrows and axe. They did 20 teams.
Producer Dave
00:16:35.984 - 00:16:39.756
Right? Yeah, right. That was. You could get those for really cheap back then.
Colin True
00:16:39.828 - 00:16:43.196
Yeah, Poehler had that corner tied up.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:43.268 - 00:16:43.596
But yeah.
Producer Dave
00:16:43.628 - 00:16:55.740
No, I think you're all right. The misidentification of what a co op really is and maybe the progressive dream of what it could be or once was.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:55.860 - 00:16:56.188
Right.
Colin True
00:16:56.244 - 00:16:59.292
You know, picture a bunch of Portlandia characters.
Producer Dave
00:16:59.356 - 00:17:07.446
Like, I think of entering the store and everyone's doing their shared chores and they're Ruling by consensus. I think that's the right.
Colin True
00:17:07.598 - 00:17:09.558
They have to take the break with the drum circle.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:09.654 - 00:17:10.614
What is that?
Producer Dave
00:17:10.782 - 00:17:12.570
That smell of patchouli.
Colin True
00:17:14.190 - 00:18:04.770
Hey, do you guys want to know what's new at Garage Grown Gear? Do it's your hub for ultralight backpacking gear. If you didn't know that.
Because this is what's new over at Garage Grown Gear because it's been Alpha Fleece Fever. It's happening on Garage Grown Gear.
They have restocks of the iconic ultralight hoodies made with Polartec Alpha Direct fleece from brands like Farpoint Outdoor Gear. If you've never seen Alpha fabric before, you gotta check it out.
It's a meshy, furry, comfy ultralight fleece with a super high warmth to weight ratio and wicking superpowers to keep you warm and dry. GGG's even got the first ever women's specific Alpha hoodie made by Alpine Fit 2. Go check out Alpha Fleet. God, it's a lot of f sounds.
Go check out Alpha Fleece Fever at GGG by hitting the link in the show notes or just head to Garage Grown Gear. Dave, I saw you smiling during that read. Did I make it? Did it make. Did you like the, the way they described Alpha?
Producer Dave
00:18:05.190 - 00:18:09.678
No, it's actually, it's, it misses the main positional.
Colin True
00:18:09.774 - 00:18:11.246
Don't you pick on Garage Gear.
Producer Dave
00:18:11.278 - 00:18:44.040
They wrote, I'm sorry, but they, Well, I, I, maybe it goes back to Polar Tech. Somebody messed up and that, that's not how you describe Alpha Alpha insulation. It's a specific form of active insulation.
It's none fill, it's a roll. It's built on a lattice that traps air in a much smaller place. Developed for special forces to drive very quickly, very fast.
And that's why it's been adopted by the through hiking community for all of those properties. So it's a very unique type of fabric there. That's.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:44.120 - 00:18:47.480
Is it more of an insulation layer than a finished fabric?
Producer Dave
00:18:47.560 - 00:19:18.380
Well, the direct is the version that they created so you can wear it as a finished layer. It was, you're right. Initially created as an inside piece. Yeah.
So they, but for as soon as they rolled it out, a lot of the brands, especially European Alpine brands, were like, hey, can we just wear this by itself? And they were like, no. And they're going, we're going to do it anyway. And so, okay, well, we better figure out a way to make it more durable.
But it's been one of those, what is it? Overnight successes that took probably six years to roll.
Colin True
00:19:18.460 - 00:19:50.930
Well, no one knew what to do with it right when I got to Polartech and it was. Everyone thought it was cool, but they're all like, they were just trying to. They made their puffy jackets with it. Which is what we're.
Not what you're supposed to. I mean, you can do that, but it wasn't like. But it's not for that. Yeah, yeah, because it's. It's a. It's made for being active in.
But it is what I often reference on the show.
Like, hey, you know, everything is kind of all the technologies and apparel fabrics came out in the late 90s, and there's been a few moments along the way where some things have been innovated. I'm usually thinking of Alpha in 2013. That was kind of a big leap forward and an insulation that wasn't available before.
Producer Dave
00:19:51.080 - 00:19:52.702
And now everybody knocks it off.
Colin True
00:19:52.806 - 00:21:46.950
Yeah. Well, there you go, Lloyd. We, yes, handed your copy with some. Some inside baseball on Alpha.
All right, let's get into our conversation with Wes Allen. He's back on the show to talk about the REI exclusivity topic that Dave and I chatted about last week.
All right, folks, time to set the record straight. A few weeks back, listeners heard me rant on about a new sandal from Lem's shoes.
That sandal, the new Switchback sandal, was a classic single strap, single post style that I, without much knowledge, accused of. Of me tooing. And look, in hindsight, it's hard to me to a style that's thousands of years old. Right.
What I wasn't informed on was Lem's unique take on making footwear.
And let's just say a few rocks were thrown back at me, and rightly so, because Lem's has really elevated the design of minimalist natural movement footwear, anatomically correct fit, zero drop comfort, and lightweight outdoor performance.
And the Switchback, it's crafted from a single piece of material and features a unique single strap design with one buckle for super ease of use, added comfort, and getting it on outside. You can personally check it out yourself when it becomes available on Wednesday, April 23rd. And oh, hey, retailers.
Did you know that Lemz is looking for wholesale partners? Hit them up at support and Lemz shoes.com to add a little flavor to your shoe wall.
And be sure to stop by and say hi to the Lemz team at their booth at Switchback in Nashville this June. So to all the Lemz fans, I may have offended, my sincerest apologies.
And to Lemz, well, you did pay for this advertisement, but more importantly, you made a believer out of me. I've eaten my words, and they tasted like freedom.
Check out the new switchback sandal by heading to lemshoes.com all right, we're joined now by Wes Allen, who owns Sunlight Sports in Cody, Wyoming, and has become the voice of the retailer here on the Rock Fight. And retailers everywhere have unanimously agreed that Wes speaks for them when he's on the show. Isn't that right, Wes?
Wes Allen
00:21:47.450 - 00:22:02.476
I believe that you have misread the results of the survey. I can confidently say it, but I speak for a very select group, group of independent retailers with stores in Cody, Wyoming.
Producer Dave
00:22:02.668 - 00:22:03.084
That's.
Colin True
00:22:03.132 - 00:22:08.000
That's. Yeah. Retailers unanimous in their opinion on anything.
Wes Allen
00:22:08.580 - 00:22:09.548
No, no.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:09.604 - 00:22:27.860
I don't know. I think that there's some things that most retailers agree about, you know, like brands discounting their own. I mean, there's.
There's a lot of stuff that is very, very common concern amongst a lot of independence, special retail. And I think what we're going to talk about today falls right into. Squarely into that category.
Colin True
00:22:28.200 - 00:23:19.410
Excellent segue by our consiglieri because we wanted to take a minute to hear from the retail side of things.
Last week here on the show, producer Dave and I responded to the rumors that REI had started putting the squeeze on some of their brand partners to gain exclusive distribution for new and updated product launches. So we wanted to kind of just revisit this for a minute with both Wes and Owen.
Wes, starting with you, you were on the show a few weeks back talking about Altra giving REI exclusive access to the Lone Peak 9 +.
And it felt like the general consensus after that episode, not just the episode of the show, but that episode at retail, at the retail level here, was that even from the ultra side of things, that was probably not the right move. They should not have limited where that show could. That shoe could show up during its release.
When you hear rumors that perhaps there has been an increase in these types of requests from rei, what's your reaction as a. As a retailer, especially a specialty retailer?
Wes Allen
00:23:20.170 - 00:24:31.750
Yeah, well, I think I have a very strong reaction, and it's probably not suitable for a family show. Colin, you know, I think.
I think the top line thing that I would say here is that the change isn't necessarily that they're asking for exclusives and, you know, early release and all that kind of stuff, because that's been a. That's been SOP for them for a while.
I think the thing that's really come clear as I heard you guys talk about it, and as I talk to my friends in the vendor community is simply that it is. The requests are more persistent and intense right now for a product that's going into spring 26.
And as an independent retailer, I'll just tell you that sucks. I mean, there's nothing illegal about it, but, you know, like boxing a bunch of small mom and pop shops out, being competitive on new product. That's.
Yeah, that's a move from a bunch of people who sell scissors at Amazon. It's not necessarily something that you would associate with kind of the feel good, get around the campfire outdoor industry.
Colin True
00:24:31.870 - 00:24:48.820
Oh, and my initial response on last week's episode was basically, this is not the time, given everything else that's going on in the world.
So when you weigh out our kind of current economic situation, you know, allow for the possibility that REI may just consider this as business as usual. I mean, do you agree that these are the types of goals that probably should be put aside for the time being?
Eoin Comerford
00:24:49.600 - 00:24:59.460
I mean, it depends on, you know, where you're looking at it from. I think, as even you pointed out last week. Even you, Colin, pointed out last week.
Colin True
00:24:59.840 - 00:25:01.940
What, what did I say?
Eoin Comerford
00:25:02.480 - 00:27:28.382
That basically there's been a huge turnover in the executive team at rei. I mean, you look at sort of the big three relative to merchandise and sort of the customer facing piece.
Chief merchant, Chief Marketing Officer, CEO, all new within the last 12 months, six months. I mean, recent and all coming from outside the outdoor industry, really from much more big box retail. And I mean, this is big box retail 101.
So I don't know that we should be entirely surprised. If anything, I think they would say, hey, we're just sort of occupying the space that we should command. Right?
And they look, you look at, let's say you look at Dick's Sporting Goods, for example, who is really is taking share, is dominating the sporting goods segment, which is obviously closely aligned with that door. And this is their playbook. This is absolutely their playbook.
And if you listen to the analyst calls like I do, what they come back to again and again and again is that a differentiated, unique product assortment is what sets them apart.
Because people come into the store, they get that product and oh, by the way, then they're not competing online with Amazon or with anybody else, so they can ensure that they get full margin. It's high demand, it's all these things.
So from a purely REI centric approach, it totally makes sense if that's all you care about are the results of rei, then, yeah, it makes sense. And is this a new policy? I don't know if it's really a policy. I think when you reached out to rei, they said, no, no, no, it's not a policy.
If I had to guess though, I would say the new chief merchant comes in and all the merchants under the chief merchant are kind of in those meetings where they're talking about strategy. And she probably said, hey, listen, we need to lean in here. This is something that we want to do.
We have the power to ask for these things, ask for them. Maybe some merchants have taken that further than intended. Who knows? But yeah, it doesn't make it suck any less though for specialty retail.
And yeah, it's tough. I think if everything was rosy at REI from a financial perspective, you'd say, really, you have to do this right now.
But I think they're at a point where like, hey, we got to take care of our own. Which again, not a great answer for specialty retail.
Colin True
00:27:28.526 - 00:28:00.318
Well, I was going to say I wanted to ask kind of both of you, between the two of you and your general experience as big box at specialty and everything, does this even, does it even work? Does the exclusivity thing even really work? Is it that valuable?
I mean, I guess that's something we haven't really questioned because it just seems frankly the to it's a little off putting. Right. Especially someone in West's shoes that like in this time.
And yeah, with everything going on, they're like, hey, you know, we're gonna put the squeeze on people so that, you know, you can't get new products. But even if they're successful, does it, I know it could definitely hurt you, Wes, but like, does it actually work at the higher level?
I mean, what do these things pay off 1, 100%?
Eoin Comerford
00:28:00.374 - 00:28:48.570
It works. Yeah, because first of all, you get to position yourself as the place to be or to come to to get the latest stuff that you can't get anywhere else.
And that's key, especially in the outdoor enthusiast mind that gear nerd that really wants the latest and greatest, the coolest, the newest, all that stuff, if you can be, hey, not only do we have that stuff, we're the only place that has that stuff. That's cool and that's key. And the second thing is pricing power. You're not competing with anybody else.
You don't have to worry about somebod, some asshole, you know, going off map on a brand new product and adding it to their 20% off coupon. Right. That's not a Problem. You, you know, and so, you know, same thing with, with, with SEO, with, with, with online marketing.
You're not competing on Google shopping for clicks on this thing, right? It's, it's immensely powerful.
Wes Allen
00:28:48.730 - 00:29:49.216
Can I, can I just counterpoint that? How fond do you think the people at Rawlings are of this? So if you're going to look at it from a vendor perspective, it sucks.
Let's just set aside, like, what you're talking about for specialty retailers. And you know, when you're talking about this kind of thing, right? Like, this is, this is boxing out smaller retailers, but to your point.
Oh, and this is not necessarily about competing with the smaller retailers.
Every time I think about this kind of thing, I think about, like when you were growing up and there are pictures of, like, big dinosaurs fighting, right? And like there are chunks of meat flying off and everything's 30ft tall. Well, that's really dramatic for the dinosaurs as they fight over the stuff.
But it really sucks for the mammals that are underneath and all the little, little animals around, because as those who just spin around and fight, everybody else gets smashed into the mud. That's what goes on here with specialty retail. But I would really have you think about this. And when I say Rawlings, do you know who Rawlings is?
Colin True
00:29:49.288 - 00:29:51.216
Like the baseball company, Right?
Wes Allen
00:29:51.288 - 00:30:53.694
Exactly. How happy do you think they are having basically a monoculture to sell to?
If you're a vendor and you're looking at this and you're thinking about basically turning over this advantage to one brand and one retailer that is trying to set itself up for domination in a category, how happy are you with that? I know that if I were still a sales manager, I would be very unhappy about that.
Because when you start talking about pricing power, you're not talking about pricing power, just to the, to the consumer. You start really talking about wielding price power over your, over your suppliers.
And if I'm a supplier, like, yeah, if, if I'm in, I don't know, backpacking stoves, where REI probably controls 50 or 60% of the US market, I might feel that I have no other choice than to give the newest, coolest backpacking stove to the big green giant in Seattle.
Colin True
00:30:53.822 - 00:30:54.206
Right.
Wes Allen
00:30:54.278 - 00:31:13.930
But, but I'm also just like signing on to be the house brand backpacking stove at that point. And next year, when they still don't make their financials, you get to, you know, receive an email that says, hey, sorry about your costs going up.
We're not accepting price increases at this point. And you don't have anywhere else to go.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:14.790 - 00:33:19.330
No, certainly from. From the supplier perspective, you do not want to be concentrated, you know, with more than 50% let.
I mean, really, you don't want to be more than 20% with a single customer. I mean, 50% is rough. And. And by the way, that. That is where a lot of outdoor brands find themselves with rei.
And so, you know, I think up until recently, REI hasn't necessarily played that card, but they absolutely have it. And it sounds like they're starting to play it. But no, it's. It's not a great. It's not a great place to be.
And, oh, by the way, there are brands in our industry that have discovered that where REI decided overnight, like, hey, you know what this category is really more about? We want to service that with our private brand. So we're not going to buy apparel from XYZ company anymore.
We'll still buy your tents, but we don't want the rest of your stuff. I mean, overnight, that can be an absolute, potentially a death knell to a company, but certainly really put the screws on. So it's challenging.
Then there are European brands that have launched with REI that didn't go well and that are still facing the impacts of that years later. So you do have to be careful who you get into bed with.
And I think brands that are considering this situation have to consider those ramifications, too. I've heard of situations in the past where REI has threatened to totally drop brands if they don't do what they want done. And the brands caved.
They absolutely did cave. And what I would say is it's interesting that REI culture has definitely shifted back and forth over the years, depending on the leadership.
I mean, it was a different company under Sally, right then it was a very different company under Jerry, and then it was a different company again under Eric.
And so are we seeing a new cultural shift at rei, back to maybe more the Jerry type culture, which was very much more that kind of retail kind of roll up our sleeves and get in the muck kind of situation?
Wes Allen
00:33:20.170 - 00:33:34.530
It could very well be. I mean, that's definitely the. That's definitely the impression that I'm getting. And I, you know, obviously, I have a horse in this fight.
Is that the term? I don't think it is. I think it's a dog in the fighting horse in this race.
Colin True
00:33:34.610 - 00:33:37.010
But actually, they're always packing. You know, I like.
Producer Dave
00:33:37.050 - 00:33:38.790
I like fighting horses.
Colin True
00:33:40.570 - 00:33:41.778
For this episode.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:41.954 - 00:33:48.434
You know, the fighting horses. Now, if they had that at Outside Fest, I'd. I'd go see That I think it's.
Colin True
00:33:48.442 - 00:33:49.590
A horse of this race.
Wes Allen
00:33:50.650 - 00:34:02.114
You know, a lot of us are going to be in Reno here in a couple of months. We should see what the opportunities are there. It seems like the right kind of place for that. We'll get T shirts. Yeah.
You know, I guess that's the horse.
Producer Dave
00:34:02.162 - 00:34:02.750
Fight.
Wes Allen
00:34:05.770 - 00:36:55.436
Me like a lot of other people, we actually have our house in this fight in that we, you know, are paying our. Our mortgages and everything with incomes out of our are retailers. And there are two maybe contradictory things that I would point out here.
One is that there's still a lot of power in independently owned specialty and being able to tell brand stories. And those brand stories more often than not as people are able to really promote their brands and they're really able to shape people's perceptions.
Those perceptions are based around your new product and your exciting product.
Limiting your ability to sell those brand stories to one particular category of retailer, one particular retailer having a wide variety of them is a difficult thing.
But on the other hand, I think we've all been around the industry long enough to be very open and honest about why this is an easy decision sometimes for brand to make to give a new exciting product to basically the one dominant retailer in a category. And that is simply this.
That if you've spent two years developing this product, which is a pretty typical product development cycle, and you're really excited about it and you want to get it out there, it's easy to talk to the marketing people at the big dominant retailer and be told the story that they're going to work really hard to launch your product.
And you know, I wrote a letter to my vendors and to some of my peers as I started to hear this in the last week or so about REI's increased focus on exclusives. And you know that that letter was basically to retailers. We, we should stand up and say something about this. And then my.
One of the vendors was asking for information about what the plans for spring 26 is.
As I sent those letters, I knew that that was probably a somewhat of a losing rear guard action because it's not really presenting anybody with strategic options to say, please don't do that thing because it hurts me.
I think the thing I put out into the industry and I guess a rock that I would throw here is simply if people like me don't want to see all those, those exclusives and the cool new product, go to one dominant retailer that kind of is leveraging everybody out to try to find a way to be profitable like we as a group of people probably need to come together and find a way to present a palatable alternative. Right, exactly.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:55.548 - 00:38:01.750
And I couldn't agree with you more. And it's something we talked about, I think, the last time you were on the show, Wes, is how do we harness the collective power of 1000 plus doors.
Right. That exist within independent outdoor specialty.
The other thing I would say is, and I hope this message was delivered loud and clear from the last time you were on and talking about the lone peak plus is that if a brand is going down this path, actually have the whatevers to tell your specialty retailers that this is going to happen. Right. Because if you don't, you are absolutely losing all trust and credibility within our industry.
And then we as an industry can make a decision about where we're going to buy.
And if you're going to bring out the latest and greatest stove that basically makes the old version obsolete, well, let us know that because we can change our order book accordingly and we'll happily buy from somebody who isn't going to do that to us. So, yeah, that to me is the minimum expectation here in my mind.
Wes Allen
00:38:02.500 - 00:39:35.736
Agreed. I think it, it can be no other way.
Like, and you know, just to be, to be clear, I've gotten as I've reached out to my friends at brands and everything and I've asked the question about what's going on based on, you know, the word that's going around the industry. Really I can kind of put those responses into like three, three kind of basic buckets. And one is we're not doing anything exclusive with them.
That's a, it's a relatively rare answer, but it's generally given by brands that have like big apparel businesses outside where they're not being dominated or they're big footwear brand and they're so, well, they're so well spread in the market that no single retailer has that sort of leverage over them. The next one that I've been getting a lot is yeah, we got asked for a few and we're giving one.
And then the third that's probably the most common right now is simply this. And this is to your last point, Owen, is no comment as of yet. Right.
So been getting a lot of those kind of conversations and to be fair, a lot of brands haven't executed on their sales meetings yet. And so they might have announcements at sales meetings going on about that. We might get more information.
But you know, for anybody who's got the no comment yet, that's fine. Better tell all those Small stores before they place orders.
Colin True
00:39:35.848 - 00:39:44.424
Hey, Wes, thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate your time and. And for you speaking on behalf of the. With thousands. Is that what you said, Owen? You know, thousand plus stores.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:44.472 - 00:39:44.936
Yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:39:44.968 - 00:39:47.656
That, you know, unanimously elected.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:47.848 - 00:39:48.900
Appreciate you.
Colin True
00:39:50.050 - 00:39:52.842
No, thank you very much, man. I always appreciate your. On these things.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:52.946 - 00:39:53.194
All right.
Producer Dave
00:39:53.202 - 00:39:53.578
See you, Wes.
Wes Allen
00:39:53.594 - 00:39:54.310
You bet.
Colin True
00:40:00.290 - 00:40:06.362
All right, it's time for the parting shot. We got two parting shots today. Dave, where's yours? You don't have a parting shot. Like, come on.
Producer Dave
00:40:06.386 - 00:40:08.650
You know, these are pretty meaty. I'm gonna just feast off.
Colin True
00:40:08.690 - 00:40:09.866
Just gonna sit back and enjoy.
Producer Dave
00:40:09.978 - 00:40:10.314
Yeah.
Colin True
00:40:10.362 - 00:40:11.498
Got some popcorn.
Producer Dave
00:40:11.674 - 00:40:12.510
Yeah.
Colin True
00:40:13.250 - 00:40:14.910
Oh, and what's your party shot?
Eoin Comerford
00:40:15.570 - 00:40:21.878
It is about my favorite topic, which is the Department of the Interior and those you're all over there.
Colin True
00:40:21.934 - 00:40:26.310
Department of the Interior. I can't have a conversation with you without you bringing up the department.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:26.430 - 00:40:30.070
Yeah, I'm great at a dinner party, like, you know, get me going on the apartment of the Interior.
Colin True
00:40:30.150 - 00:40:30.918
Did you know?
Eoin Comerford
00:40:31.054 - 00:42:08.842
Well, hey, this Doug Burgum character. No, but the interesting thing was that we got to see a leaked copy of the. The Department of interior fiscal year 2026-2030 strategic framework.
And actually some kind person, I think somebody who actually cares about public lands inside the doi, I think, leaked this to a reporter at Public Domain. Not coincidentally, on Earth Day, this was leaked. So. Yeah. So somebody that cares about our planet. Shocking.
The thing is that everything that we feared was coming down is coming down. If anything, it's worse. Okay, so, yes, increased commercial exploitation of public lands. Drilling, mining, lumber, grazing. Yep, that's all in there.
Dismantling regulations to protect our public lands. You betcha. Resizing and downsizing of national monuments. It's there. The sale of public lands, even for housing projects. Yep, that's there.
And then we're going to remove endangered species protections. Yeah, let's do that, too. And while we're at it, you know what?
Let's move the control of public lands from the federal level to state and local governments who really mainly care about their local constituents, like ranchers, like oil people, et cetera. We're going to do all those things in this document. So. Yeah, it's bad. Now, supposedly this is only a draft quote, unquote.
And the DOI was pretty pissed off that someone leaked it, but it shows.
Colin True
00:42:08.906 - 00:42:10.910
Leaks are so uncommon in the Trump administration.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:12.340 - 00:43:51.090
It's the deep State, Kong. The deep state is fighting back.
But, you know, in sort of official confirmation of this, they officially did come out in the last couple of days and they said that they are having accelerated permitting procedures to develop American energy dominance by removing key safeguards to expedite the process for drilling or whatever else.
These process used to take a couple of years because there was environmental impact studies and all these other things to make sure that we weren't going to fuck everything up. That two year process now should be no longer than 28 days.
So tell me how much we can really figure out about what this is going to do to our environment in 28 days. Probably not, but hey, who cares? It's all about you. Drill baby, drill.
Also, it was announced that six national monuments are under review for energy development, including Bears Ears, Chuckwalla, Gran Sterakis, Escalante and others. So this shit is happening.
So my parting shot is if you are a brand that had been sort of sitting on the sidelines taking that wait and see, maybe it's not as bad as we think attitude, it's worse. Okay, so now is the time to step up before there are irreversible impacts on our public lands. So if you want to step up, speak out.
Join Brands for Public Lands, which is a coalition of outdoor brands that's being coordinated by the Conservation alliance and lobby your congresspeople, your senators, whoever will listen to stop this shit before it is too late.
Colin True
00:43:53.070 - 00:44:04.568
This arrived, we got this yesterday.
And the thing that kind of struck me when I think I got it right before I was getting on a call and I was just kind of quick opened it, I was like kind of breezing through it was how normal it just looks. It's like a regular almost like PowerPoint presentation.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:04.664 - 00:44:05.640
PowerPoint, yeah, right.
Colin True
00:44:05.680 - 00:44:18.888
And you're like, oh. And you see like, like okay, well maybe it's, you know, just because it felt just so like. Yeah, the matter of fact. And this is what we're gonna do.
And then you really have to sit and read every word and you're like, oh, this is diabolical. Like, like, oh my God.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:19.064 - 00:44:39.240
So yeah, yeah, all sorts of, you know, you know, political babble about stakeholders and you know, this will improve the blah, blah, blah. The betterment. Capital N the nation. Yes, Capital N. Yes. It's just. Oh God. Awful. Just awful.
Producer Dave
00:44:39.820 - 00:45:11.690
Dave, what else? What can I say? It's pretty Orwellian. I mean, no doubt about it. They're going to protect endangered species by removing protections, right?
I mean, we're going to conserve public lands by opening up the resource extraction. You can't make it up.
I mean, really, no one doing a parody would be so shameless as to put these obvious and over the top kind of objectives to this language and that's. That's what we're looking at.
Colin True
00:45:11.810 - 00:45:49.906
Yeah. All right. Well for my parting shot, not quite as dark as almost, but dark in its own way. I'm not excited about this.
You know, I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I see something or read something and it sort of trips my trigger the right way.
Like it causes kind of a bit of adrenalized response to where my angst is like physically manifested and I kind of get the shakes because I'm so put off. And this happened to me yesterday because I saw a LinkedIn story about a company called you're Wild that is coming to Denver.
Now you're wild, which is U R W L D. Are you sure it's called you're Wild? I don't frankly. Cuz they. Because they're choosing certain. Certain vows are okay. You other vows we don't need.
But whatever. I'm going to assume it's your wild.
Producer Dave
00:45:49.938 - 00:45:53.426
Well, if you pay by the letter. This has some really genius applications.
Colin True
00:45:53.458 - 00:45:58.330
I mean, I guess. Or it's your willed, so decide which one you want to go with.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:59.110 - 00:46:01.198
Yeah, there's no okay.
Producer Dave
00:46:01.214 - 00:46:05.810
Let's a distant relative to the Griswolds. It could be the year walls.
Colin True
00:46:06.550 - 00:46:42.850
I don't know would be good, right? Anyway, it's a UK based company that creates indoor adventure centers. And that doesn't sound bad, right? You may wonder why this made me so angry.
Well, dear listeners, it's because of the length that you're Wild or your whatever we're calling this thing is going to in order to bring the outdoors inside. So if you go to their website, your wild the facility, it includes activities and this is a list.
Ice climbing, scuba diving, canyoneering, coasteering. I double checked the spelling. That's coasteering. I didn't know that was a thing. Apparently that's a thing. Spelunking and caving.
I don't know there's a difference there. I don't believe there is.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:42.890 - 00:46:45.346
I believe that's spelunking is so much cooler than caving.
Colin True
00:46:45.538 - 00:46:47.330
It is just put spelunky.
Producer Dave
00:46:47.490 - 00:46:51.090
Surfing and body nearing says hold my beer here. But.
Colin True
00:46:52.110 - 00:47:54.366
And there's also climbing and bouldering.
And if you look at the artist's rendering of what a location will look like, it's truly trying to recreate these very specific outdoor environments but also with elevated food and DJ booths.
And the whole thing takes the idea of a rock climbing gym and runs with it in a way that Just makes me sick to my stomach mostly because an indoor rock gym is rooted in the outdoors in a way that makes sense for everyone. Climbers can train, you know, climbing the climbing curious can dabble. But then it also provides the overarching outdoor vibe.
You know that you can build a community out of your wild Feels like it's trying to become at best an alternative and at worst a replacement for trying these activities outside. And well, there'll be some. Will there be some who see this as the kicking off point to their outdoorsy life? Probably.
I could see that happening but I'd worry that it ends up being mostly a resource sucking end point for those who will never know how much reward more rewarding these activities could be if they were just done in their more natural environment. So basically for me the tldr is you're wild. Please don't just go outside instead. I hate that this thing's happening.
Producer Dave
00:47:54.478 - 00:48:14.150
I think you're missing. I think you're missing the boat here. Colin. I think what's the point of this?
Look, we just talked about the calamity facing our national parks and our wild spaces. This to me seems like the answer. Your wild Yosemite, right? It's coming right, right now.
Colin True
00:48:15.010 - 00:48:17.962
The 1/16 recreation of El Cap inside.
Producer Dave
00:48:18.026 - 00:48:23.674
We can mine the hell out of that place and have it over here like a snow globe.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:23.802 - 00:48:50.656
But it's kind of like you know when you would take a French chateau and deconstruct it brick by brick and then bring it over here and construct it. Same kind of thing. National monument. There's an arch over that mineral deposit closet. You know there's some copper down there.
People, let's we deconstruct the arch. We're going to make it right here in, in Denver Suburban. That one might be Salt Lake City in fairness. Wow.
Colin True
00:48:50.848 - 00:49:00.528
Also the, the research, they're going to have an ice wall in there. Phil. Ice climbing will be on ice that they're going to refresh every day. I'm like this is all. And it's most.
It's going to be like the largest ice wall in North America. And I'm like yeah.
Producer Dave
00:49:00.544 - 00:49:03.040
What does it take to power that refrigeration truck?
Colin True
00:49:03.120 - 00:49:22.444
The refrigeration. I'm just like the, the footprint of this facility to recreate stuff. And look, I'm not a. Like if you want to, yeah, you need to learn a scuba dive.
You got to go in a pool and get certified or whatever. But that's usually because you're going to then go somewhere to go Scuba diving. You know, the idea that I want to try canyoneering.
Well, then go to Utah and hire a guy, you know, like, and learn.
Producer Dave
00:49:22.572 - 00:49:30.812
You got to get there. You got to travel. You're putting a footprint together.
So if that's true, if you can remove all adventure travel to just go to this down the street, maybe it does.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:30.836 - 00:49:31.408
Pencil out.
Wes Allen
00:49:31.444 - 00:49:31.736
Out.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:31.808 - 00:49:35.624
How big is this? How this thing would have to be.
Colin True
00:49:35.792 - 00:49:41.400
Mass, how like 165,000 square ft. And.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:41.440 - 00:49:46.980
Even that feels like it's too small. I mean, we're talking about spelunking and coing and all.
Colin True
00:49:47.360 - 00:49:50.392
A cave, I guess, that you can go, like ripping around in.
Producer Dave
00:49:50.416 - 00:49:57.144
I. I think you just. You just staple two top golfs together, and I think you could get one of these that's, you know, kind of.
Colin True
00:49:57.152 - 00:50:04.556
Like, I don't like golf courses much for the same reason that I don't like this. This one is just kind of standing on our corner. Just bugs. Bugs me, but had a nice back.
Producer Dave
00:50:04.628 - 00:50:08.172
I thought it was the. I thought it was the acronym that was.
Colin True
00:50:08.276 - 00:50:34.864
That bothers me. It's like. It's like salt in the wound.
And the guy who posted about this, who's the economic development guy for Denver, and I posted about it and he responded to me and actually threw back. I guess he went searching and found something I had said about rock climbing gyms on the podcast and pasted it into his response.
Oh, that's fantastic. And. And I. So I responded back to him and then I sent him a message. I'm like, hey, man, I'd love to have you come on the podcast.
Like, come on and talk me into this. This thing. Like, seriously, Like, I'm not even kidding. Like, it would be. We would treat you right. We're not going to be addicts about it.
Producer Dave
00:50:34.872 - 00:50:36.704
He responded with violence. I love it.
Colin True
00:50:36.792 - 00:50:39.376
He did not respond to my request to have him on the podcast.
Producer Dave
00:50:39.408 - 00:50:40.304
Oh, that's too bad.
Colin True
00:50:40.392 - 00:50:49.140
Actually, I won't cut that. I'm gonna call you out, buddy. Come on the podcast. So you're wild, you're willed, you're wals.
Producer Dave
00:50:49.480 - 00:51:01.274
I think the year Waltz. Yeah. It's the ice cream. Yeah. In the trilogy right there. Right. Your walled natural vacation is actually to an indoor facility.
Colin True
00:51:01.402 - 00:51:02.250
There you go.
Wes Allen
00:51:02.370 - 00:51:03.430
I'm down.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:04.050 - 00:51:04.522
All right.
Colin True
00:51:04.546 - 00:51:31.092
We're gonna wrap it up there today. Come back on Wednesday and Friday for more episodes of the Rock Fight. Also, check out the latest from Open container.
Go follow that show to hear Doug Schnitzbahn. The Rock Fight's a production of Rock Fight llc. Our producer today was producer David karstad.
Art direction provided by Sarah gensert for Owen comerford and Wes Allen. I'm cold and truth. Thanks for listening Back once again to take us out as our guy Kristen makes to sing the rock fight fight song.
We'll see you next time, rock fighters.
Producer Dave
00:51:31.236 - 00:51:31.844
All right.
Chris DeMakes
00:51:31.932 - 00:52:27.860
Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music the latest movie reviews Ideas that aim for the head this is where we speak our truth this is where we speak our truth Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock side Rock fight rock fight welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Rock flight Rock fight rock fight welcome to the rock fight Rock fight Rock fight.
Colin True
00:52:30.320 - 00:52:30.960
Rock fight.
