The Rock Fight LIVE at TRE 2025!
- colin7931
- 11 minutes ago
- 32 min read
From San Antonio, TX it's The Rock Fight LIVE!
Colin, Shawnté Salabert, Producer Dave and Eoin Comerford take the stage at The Running Event & Switchback 2025 for a fast, funny, high-energy conversation on the annual trade show.
On The Docket!
The Future of TRE & Switchback: Christina Henderson and Kent Ebersole discuss where the event is heading, how outdoor fits in, and whether an awards program is coming.
RUNHER Magazine founder and Editor In Chief joins TRF to discuss what outdoor can learn from running when it comes to being more inclusive.
Gear Abby Live: Shawnté answers your burning questions!
Booth Hits & Misses: Standouts include Brooks’ funhouse, Superfeet’s geodesic dome, and Rabbit’s unbooth. Low points: Clif Bar’s table and Prana’s identity crisis.
Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.240 - 00:01:57.400
Hey guys, it's Colin.
Just wanted to jump in before starting the show to let you know that today's episode is a recording of the Rock Fights live show that we did at the running event in San Antonio, Texas.
We had a blast at TRE during the live show and we were joined that day by Kent Debersol and Christina Henderson as well as Runner Magazine's Ashley Mateo. It was a great event and I'm excited that we get to share it with you.
Come back on Monday for our last bit of TRE coverage where our Texas crew of myself and producer Dave and Shantae and Owen will recap the entire show, including our impressions of the Tre Retailer Awards. That's coming up on Monday. But in the meantime, enjoy the live show and we'll see you next time.
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Colin True
00:03:26.900 - 00:04:40.640
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truths, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and we are live at the running event in San Antonio, Texas.
Joining me on stage, to my left, we have the consigliere, Owen Comerford. We also to my left, have gear. Abby herself, Shantae Stanlebert. To my right, the people's champion and co founder of the Rock Fight, producer Dave.
Music's very loud, but it's gonna be over in a second, guys. It's coming up.
Today we're gonna be joined by Ashley Mateo, the editor in chief of Runner magazine, as well as the director of the running event, Christina Henderson. And the president of the outdoor Industry Association, Kent Ebersol, the president of the Outdoor Industry Association.
We also have gear Abbey answer some questions and of course hand out some opinions on which brands had the best and maybe the worst booths of the show that we've seen so far. Honestly, there's a lot of booths I've seen, guys, so we didn't get to all of them.
But before we get to that, I have to ask my co hosts, what do we think of the show so far as first time attendees? Owen, Shantae, what did you think of the running event so far?
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:40.960 - 00:04:52.440
I mean, I love seeing fellow runners out there. I'm not just a hiker. I was a little disappointed at the lack of dogs at the show though, so maybe we'd step it up tomorrow.
If anyone's got a dog they can.
Colin True
00:04:52.440 - 00:04:54.560
Bring, just go home and get it.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:54.960 - 00:05:10.590
Yeah, yeah. I was disappointed that we, you know, we had hoped that like at an outdoor show you'll see people all in flannel and hiking boots.
I was really hoping for this singlet and the short shorts. Yeah. But I don't think we saw that at All.
Colin True
00:05:10.590 - 00:05:11.270
No, not once.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:11.270 - 00:05:11.630
Right.
Colin True
00:05:11.710 - 00:05:14.670
I saw. Oh, there's a couple booths where there was some leg happening.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:14.830 - 00:05:16.670
All right. Oh, the hairy leg.
Colin True
00:05:16.750 - 00:05:21.950
As a hairy legged man myself, I was a little like, oh man, no one wants to.
Producer Dave
00:05:21.950 - 00:05:23.670
You missed the party last night though.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:23.670 - 00:05:24.430
Oh, okay.
Producer Dave
00:05:24.430 - 00:05:26.070
There were plenty of singlets. There were.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:26.070 - 00:05:42.540
Oh, really? Okay. No, this is. It's great. Definitely get that sort of mid teens or vibe once again. So this kind of scratching, that itch.
In fact, I'm Pretty sure the UFOS booth, they bought it from the Arc' Teryx booth in 2017.
Colin True
00:05:42.620 - 00:05:43.980
It was for sale on ebay.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:43.980 - 00:05:48.260
It was, yeah. So that's great. That multi level white Formica booth, it was great.
Colin True
00:05:48.260 - 00:05:50.100
Just add a few screens, repurpose it.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:50.100 - 00:05:50.620
Totally.
Colin True
00:05:50.780 - 00:05:55.020
Dave, any follow up thoughts that you'd like to chime in with?
Producer Dave
00:05:55.990 - 00:06:08.390
You know, I think small booths seem to be in for sure. You can definitely see a smaller footprint. The 10 by 20 is probably the star of the show. Recovery. That's a trend that continues.
Colin True
00:06:08.630 - 00:06:09.910
Someday we will be recovered.
Producer Dave
00:06:09.910 - 00:06:20.230
We were recovered for sure. And my other. The ticker seems to be the new kind of trend in booth construction. Right. The moving piece of architecture.
Colin True
00:06:20.720 - 00:06:28.040
So did you notice maybe a lack of any messaging, maybe some sustainability messaging that wasn't quite present that we see at other outdoor events?
Producer Dave
00:06:28.040 - 00:06:43.000
Well, you know, we do know the outdoor is very performative in our sustainability. I don't think you have the same issue here with Tre.
There does seem to be a petrochemical love fest going on, but like 80 synth would be a good soundtrack. Actually, anything synth would be a good soundtrack.
Colin True
00:06:43.000 - 00:06:44.400
We put the synth in synthetic.
Producer Dave
00:06:44.400 - 00:06:46.560
That's right. That's right. But other than that, no.
Colin True
00:06:47.030 - 00:07:29.250
All right.
Well, guys, this is our second live rock fight at a switchback event, which means it's now a tradition, which also means we have to honor that tradition by welcoming back to the stage the director of the running event and switchback, Christina Henderson and the president of the Outdoor Industry association and Deborah Saul. Come back up here, guys. It's like they just saw you. Up top, up top. All right.
So Christina, every time you've been on stage with us, there's been a first in Nashville. It was the first Switchback spring. This time it's the first San Antonio for Tre. Next June, it will be New Orleans for another first.
Do you ever plan on settling down, maybe making something a little less stressful? What do you think?
Christina Henderson
00:07:31.010 - 00:07:48.500
Yeah, I think we are trying to find the home and trying to find a location that works best for the outdoor industry and the Running industry, so, you know, can't tell you exactly what the plans are for the future, but you can. I'll keep you updated. Yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:07:48.500 - 00:07:50.060
Who is stopping you from telling us?
Eoin Comerford
00:07:50.060 - 00:07:53.500
What, what, what better time than now with all these lovely people listening?
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:53.500 - 00:07:54.500
They look so eager.
Christina Henderson
00:07:54.500 - 00:08:00.420
Well, we're still learning, right? So we're still learning and deciding and we'll share soon, okay? Yeah.
Colin True
00:08:00.420 - 00:08:03.380
God, it's like she's been media trained. Damn it.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:03.460 - 00:08:04.660
I hate when that happens.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:05.720 - 00:08:12.760
Well, she might be a little more media trained now because we know you have your recent promotion. Vp, what's up? VP of the endurance group over here.
Christina Henderson
00:08:13.000 - 00:08:14.440
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:14.520 - 00:08:34.600
Thank you, thank you. Thank you for doing all you do. So you have been promoted. And we've also seen the OIA has deepened the relationship. Absolutely.
Nobody told me to say the oia, you know, double down here on the relationship. So what does this mean for the future of Tre Switchback? What's the vibe?
Christina Henderson
00:08:35.600 - 00:08:44.640
So I'm really happy to answer the question, but I do think it's worth Kent explaining why you all are calling it the outdoor industry and why he's annoyed. So I want to give him that opportunity.
Kent Ebersole
00:08:46.000 - 00:09:02.190
I'm not actually sure it's worth talking about. Nobody here says the Birkenstock, the lims, the teva. It's oaa. It's Teva, it's Birkenstock. I'm just looking around. It's not the oia. It's oia.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:02.590 - 00:09:07.630
I can tell you don't live in Southern California because we name all of Our freeways the 405. The 5.
Kent Ebersole
00:09:08.910 - 00:09:30.940
I'm wearing a pair of the ultras. I don't. It's in our brand guidebook. I hear it all the time.
I, a couple months ago told him if he ever said the OIA again, I was going to rain hell down on his house. All of a sudden, we haven't talked. And so I show the last time.
Colin True
00:09:30.940 - 00:09:33.700
We'Ll appear on stage together, the oia.
Kent Ebersole
00:09:33.940 - 00:09:36.420
Back and forth. So it's not the oia.
Colin True
00:09:37.300 - 00:09:39.860
Well, let's talk about the OA real quick. So, like, looking at.
Chris DeMakes
00:09:42.100 - 00:09:42.660
Who is.
Colin True
00:09:42.660 - 00:09:44.580
Sorry, that was actually not intentional that time.
Kent Ebersole
00:09:46.500 - 00:09:49.140
It's in your lexicon now. You got to get it out.
Colin True
00:09:49.700 - 00:09:58.230
When you look at who showed up on the brand side here from the outdoors, you know, are you happy with the representation from looking at the outdoor brands who are here?
Kent Ebersole
00:09:59.270 - 00:10:28.430
Yeah, I'm super happy. This is vibrant. There's a lot going on. It's fun. It's the first time we you know, it's the second time we've come together and so what's not to like?
I think the question is what happens next and next. Next question you asked her. And we're, we're fully at work trying to answer those questions and figure that out. But I.
You can't take step two without this right here, right now, right?
Colin True
00:10:28.990 - 00:10:30.230
Did we step on the answer?
Chris DeMakes
00:10:30.230 - 00:10:30.950
Yeah. You did not.
Colin True
00:10:30.950 - 00:10:33.310
Oh, my God. I just jumped right over. Sorry, Christina.
Christina Henderson
00:10:33.550 - 00:11:02.030
No, it's an important question. So, yeah, thank you for the congrats.
So with my elevated position, we are promoting Jenae Salinas to be the running event director and we will be hiring a director for Switchback. And this is to give dedicated focus to both industries.
As you know, they are distinct and they continue to grow and we just want to make sure we have focus in both. So that's the plan.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:03.390 - 00:11:16.110
So in terms of retailers, it felt busy. Can you tell us if attendance was up year over year? And do you think that the switchback of it all is bringing more outdoor retailers to the show?
Christina Henderson
00:11:16.830 - 00:11:20.830
Great question. So we are slightly ahead in terms of pre registered retailers.
Chris DeMakes
00:11:21.130 - 00:11:21.290
We.
Christina Henderson
00:11:21.440 - 00:11:32.160
Which is great. We are seeing international attendance as well as outdoor specialties.
So we do have the most outdoor specialty retailers in attendance that we've ever had at Tre.
Producer Dave
00:11:32.480 - 00:11:33.040
Awesome.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:33.120 - 00:12:06.410
Also now looking ahead, one of the things that in our pre show we talked about was the fact that this show, it's laid out very well. Two solid days we don't stretch into three days.
Two high energy days bookended by education on the front end and an awards show we're going to go to tomorrow night on the back end.
So my prediction was that for Switchback and given the deepening, quote unquote relationship between you two, that you guys were going to add an awards ceremony to the end of day two of Switchback.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:06.410 - 00:12:09.330
2026 and who will get the best podcast award?
Colin True
00:12:10.290 - 00:12:12.450
That's really the question we're all waiting to hear.
Kent Ebersole
00:12:12.690 - 00:12:14.690
I'm going to start reading your questions.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:16.050 - 00:12:18.030
Can you confirm or deny what does.
Kent Ebersole
00:12:18.030 - 00:12:22.390
The running world or industry do differently from the outdoor industry and what can they learn from that?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:23.670 - 00:12:25.110
That's actually a question for somebody else.
Christina Henderson
00:12:25.110 - 00:12:45.840
But okay, so it's in conversation. It is not in plans as of now.
We are still trying to get to know the outdoor industry and I don't think it's quite, we're quite ready to say, hey, we're going to honor the best outdoor stores because we're still getting to know them. So I do think in the future we hope to here's my answer.
Colin True
00:12:45.920 - 00:12:46.880
Another good answer.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:46.880 - 00:12:47.240
Okay.
Kent Ebersole
00:12:47.240 - 00:12:48.160
Are you ready for that one?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:48.160 - 00:12:48.640
Yeah.
Kent Ebersole
00:12:48.640 - 00:14:55.210
Okay. Lloyd, I said I was gonna mention you. Somebody recently at an event we were both at said, I really love Lloyd because he says yes to everything.
And I just reflected on that, and I went, God, I say no to everything. Like, every time someone comes to me, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Kelly. They're all. He says no a lot.
I think part of that answer is what happens next here? And I think. And what I mean by that is we can't say yes to everything. So it's about prioritizing what matters.
And I see all kinds of different people in this room. I see retailers, I see brands, I see State of Colorado here. And I see all kinds of different people and from different backgrounds.
And you ask that question or you ask a specific question about, do we want an award ceremony? And you get all kinds of different answers. So to me, your first question is the number of people here. That's an important part.
Is it the right number and the right people? The second part is Community and Vibe. Do we have Community and Vibe? And I check that big box.
Yes, she can answer the numbers, but the Community and Vibe part. And so if an awards ceremony is critical and functional to Community and Vibe, we got to think about it, if we have to do it.
But we have to think about it, because Community and Vibe is really what allows you all to walk away and go, I'm coming back or not. And then the third part of this is, are people selling and buying products? And that's a big part of this. It always has to be a big part of this.
For some, it's bigger. For others, it's not as big, but there's some component of that.
I think that at some point, we start answering those questions with, does it help the Vibe? Does it help the community? I trust Christina and janae and that DivCom organization because they look at what they're doing. This is not easy to do.
All right, I'm done. Should I just.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:56.010 - 00:14:57.290
Sorry, one other question.
Kent Ebersole
00:14:57.290 - 00:15:00.560
Last question. It started with Lloyd. It's your fault, Lloyd.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:00.960 - 00:15:19.520
Ken, since we have you here. You just announced that you're bringing back Rendezvous. Now, this has been a discussion for a decade to bring this back. Maybe. So why. So why now?
And do you have anything you want to say about that show?
Kent Ebersole
00:15:20.400 - 00:15:59.040
Sure. Why now? Because it's just the demand for convening at different levels is real. It's just real.
Rendezvous will be very different than what it's been in the past. If anybody here has been a part of Rendezvous in the past, it was 5, 600 people. We don't have that. We're not going to launch with that many people.
We're going to launch with a small group of people, and we're going to try to make it very simple and try to make sure that the topics are topics that what's affecting us for the next five or ten years that we need to be talking about now. I hope that it grows. I hope it gets bigger. I hope there's people in this room that are part of it. I know you didn't get an invite.
Colin True
00:15:59.040 - 00:16:00.080
I know it's very sad.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:00.080 - 00:16:00.560
Rude.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:00.720 - 00:16:01.200
Yeah.
Kent Ebersole
00:16:01.200 - 00:16:02.640
Doesn't mean you can't. Okay.
Colin True
00:16:02.640 - 00:16:07.400
Depends on the rest of the. Before the OIA and you're mad at me. Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:16:07.400 - 00:16:07.760
Nice.
Kent Ebersole
00:16:07.760 - 00:16:08.920
And you stop saying the.
Colin True
00:16:08.920 - 00:16:10.000
Oh, I've never again.
Kent Ebersole
00:16:12.080 - 00:16:54.670
So I think it's time to bring it back because I think there's issues.
We see four or five issues that the industry needs to address, and if we don't address them in five years, we're going to go, what the heck were we thinking five years ago? We didn't address it. And you can't address that always with 500, 600, 1000 people in the room.
Sometimes it takes a small group of people to be very clear about this. One important part of it is when you have a smaller group of people, and I'm between 75 and 100, you have to walk away with marching orders.
Like, what are the calls to action? What are we going to do? What are we going to. So that's why we're launching it. We expect it to be manageable.
And if we can't six months later look like we're taking action for the benefit of the industry, then we may.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:54.670 - 00:16:55.270
Never do it again.
Kent Ebersole
00:16:55.270 - 00:16:57.510
But I think we have to do that. That's the mandate.
Colin True
00:16:57.910 - 00:17:01.990
Well, we appreciate your time, Dave. Any last questions before we turn these folks loose?
Producer Dave
00:17:02.070 - 00:17:05.590
Just wondering if Kent has any other rules about acronyms that we should be aware of.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:07.510 - 00:17:08.550
Now's your time, Kent.
Kent Ebersole
00:17:08.710 - 00:17:09.990
Let me get out my notes here.
Colin True
00:17:10.710 - 00:17:18.950
Well, thank you both so much for the show, for being here, for being such good sports. Thank you, Kent. And as always, thank you for everything. Thanks for having us and thanks for doing everything you do.
Christina Henderson
00:17:19.160 - 00:17:20.280
Yeah, thanks for being here.
Colin True
00:17:23.240 - 00:17:49.680
Well, guys, given that we're at the running event and right now the Rock Fight has become basically a trail running podcast, at this point, we wanted to have someone from the running world join us to talk about the outdoor and running category. So we're excited to welcome our next guest, Ashley Mateo. She is the founder and editor in chief of Runner magazine.
Runner is a quarterly publication covering women's running that recently shipped its second issue. So, Ashley, welcome to the rock fight. Thanks for being here.
Ashley Mateo
00:17:49.920 - 00:17:50.880
Thanks for having me.
Colin True
00:17:51.120 - 00:17:55.360
I brought props, and I want to say run her or run her. Let's just clarify.
Ashley Mateo
00:17:55.360 - 00:17:56.600
Anybody else want to hold it while I talk?
Chris DeMakes
00:17:56.600 - 00:17:57.240
Yes. There we go.
Colin True
00:17:57.240 - 00:17:58.480
So run her or run her.
Ashley Mateo
00:17:59.360 - 00:18:00.480
I say runner.
Colin True
00:18:00.480 - 00:18:01.360
What's your magazine?
Ashley Mateo
00:18:01.360 - 00:18:08.000
I think that women are implicit in running, so we don't need to stress her. It's just a part of it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:08.640 - 00:18:09.520
That was my theory.
Royal Robbins!
00:18:09.520 - 00:18:10.000
I love that.
Ashley Mateo
00:18:10.000 - 00:18:13.130
You can say run her. You can say runner. Just subscribe.
Colin True
00:18:13.370 - 00:18:29.930
There you go. All right. Well, unfortunately for you, you're on stage with a, like, not a running podcast, but an outdoor podcast. Right.
So we're hoping you could help us with a few things. Firstly, trail running is this seemingly evergreen topic in the industry right now.
So I want to ask you, do real runners view trail running as running or just something that outdoors do?
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:30.010 - 00:18:30.730
Oh, my God.
Ashley Mateo
00:18:30.730 - 00:18:33.650
This is a wild question, because what is a real runner?
Colin True
00:18:33.650 - 00:18:35.690
Well, you are. You publish a magazine.
Ashley Mateo
00:18:35.850 - 00:18:50.130
Take issue with the term real runner. Because I think anybody who runs is a real runner, and I think that is true.
Regardless of the pace you're running, the distance you're running, the surface that you run on, if you run, you are a runner. Obviously, trail running is a different experience.
Colin True
00:18:50.530 - 00:18:50.930
Right.
Ashley Mateo
00:18:51.410 - 00:19:06.540
It's not my favorite because it's so much harder. There are hills. I prefer to avoid hills, but it's still very much running.
And I think that anyone in any part of the running space considers trail runners real runners.
Colin True
00:19:06.540 - 00:19:09.700
I'm a trail runner. I'm insecure. So this is why I asked that question.
Ashley Mateo
00:19:09.700 - 00:19:10.580
You're a real runner.
Colin True
00:19:10.660 - 00:19:15.700
All right, thank you. All right, show's over, folks. That's all I needed. So go ahead, Sean.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:16.500 - 00:19:26.420
Wow. How do you follow that up as a trail runner? I'd like to know. Okay, so we were talking about how the outdoor industry has kind of a.
We like to call it a skinny white guy problem.
Ashley Mateo
00:19:27.060 - 00:19:27.860
You're not wrong.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:27.940 - 00:19:39.520
Exactly. So I'm wondering how this translates in running, and are there things the outdoor industry can learn from the running world?
There's some things running is doing a little better. I don't know.
Ashley Mateo
00:19:40.800 - 00:19:43.360
I don't know. There's probably a lot of things that running is doing a little bit better.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:43.360 - 00:19:43.920
Ooh.
Colin True
00:19:46.080 - 00:19:46.880
You asked the question.
Ashley Mateo
00:19:46.880 - 00:20:08.540
Oh, the skinny white dude problem. I mean, I think that running, to be honest, has had a very male first narrative for a very long time.
I mean, that's why Runner exists, because so many of the people in charge of running media are men. And we wanted to create a space that allowed women to center their stories.
Colin True
00:20:08.940 - 00:20:10.140
So subscribe today.
Ashley Mateo
00:20:10.220 - 00:20:47.700
I don't 100% know what the answer is for the outdoor industry, but I think if you look at running, the. The female participation numbers are just through the roof. Women are participating at a higher level than men.
And I think it's because there has been this. This sense of empowerment that they found in the sport, and the sport is leaning into it. It is not as performance focused as it was at one point.
And now it is very community based and participation based. I mean, you do it because it's a social environment. And. I think that the outdoor industry could learn a little something from that social element.
Producer Dave
00:20:48.260 - 00:20:57.860
I'm not social. I don't know. So who are some women that are kicking ass in the space right now, like both in the performance area and then in the industry?
Ashley Mateo
00:20:58.680 - 00:21:08.440
Oh, man. So, I mean, so many, like, if you look at trail running specifically, obviously Courtney DeWalter is like the greatest of all time.
Producer Dave
00:21:08.600 - 00:21:09.080
Yeah.
Ashley Mateo
00:21:09.080 - 00:21:36.930
And I think she has set this, I don't want to say precedent, but just this bar for women, and women are meeting it and surpassing it. And so people that I think of off the top of my head are like Tara Dower, Rachel Entrekin.
I'm really excited to see Olympian Molly Seidel move into trail and just see what an Olympic marathoner can do on a longer course, on a more challenging course. I think. Who else I'm super stoked by.
Colin True
00:21:37.010 - 00:21:40.250
You mentioned some efforts being led in public lands by women as well, women runners.
Chris DeMakes
00:21:40.250 - 00:21:40.650
Oh, yes.
Ashley Mateo
00:21:40.650 - 00:22:24.900
So we, in issue two, we have a story on how female runners are really leading the charge to protect public lands. There's an organization called Runners for Public Lands, and it's just.
It's really inspiring to see the women who spend their time in these spaces, like, taking action to protect them and make sure that everyone still has access to recreate in the outdoor spaces, whether it's a public park, whether it's, you know, the, I don't know, national parks, the mountains that I live in in Colorado, like, we want to protect those places. And women are the ones who are leading that charge, which I think is kind of wild.
But honestly, the writer for issue two did a much better job of telling that story than I just did summing it up.
Colin True
00:22:25.140 - 00:22:28.900
Subscribe is what you're saying subscribe all comes back to there.
Ashley Mateo
00:22:28.900 - 00:22:30.660
It all comes back to subscriptions, guys.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:31.860 - 00:22:40.700
So in the outdoor industry, for the longest time, when it came to products for women specifically, the mantra was pink it and shrinkage.
Producer Dave
00:22:40.700 - 00:22:41.220
Oh, man.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:41.300 - 00:23:02.510
Right. And I was actually surprised. I did see a couple of shoe brands on the floor that still had unisex lasts or sizing. Right. So not female specific.
Do you think the running industry is making progress in terms of women's specific product or. Well, or not.
Ashley Mateo
00:23:03.070 - 00:23:50.420
I do. I think that's.
It's such an interesting question because I don't know if all women need women specific shoes or products, but I think anytime that brands are investing more money into research around women's bodies and anatomy and biomechanics and all those things, that is a good thing for the industry. And whenever there are more options available, that means more women will pick up the sport and stick with the sport.
And that's true for any activity, not just running. And so I think, I don't think unisex is a bad thing.
For example, like I wear a women's size 10 and a men's eight and a half and that works for me, but it might not work for you. You might need a women's specific shoe that has a different fit that makes you more comfortable when you run, when you hike, whatever.
And giving women those options is how you keep them in the sport.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:50.420 - 00:23:52.900
I just want shorts that fit my ass. That's all I ask.
Ashley Mateo
00:23:53.220 - 00:23:55.540
That. That is the tough one, I feel like.
Colin True
00:23:55.540 - 00:23:57.620
Are you saying are you available to any brands looking for.
Shawnté Salabert
00:23:57.620 - 00:24:01.980
I'm available to model for any brands that think they have shorts that will fit my voluptuous ass.
Colin True
00:24:01.980 - 00:24:03.620
We call this the Shantae.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:03.940 - 00:24:05.460
I've also a number.
Ashley Mateo
00:24:05.460 - 00:24:07.590
We start gear testing for Runner and.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:07.590 - 00:24:11.030
A number of emerging brands are even. It's shorts that don't ride up.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:11.190 - 00:24:12.470
Oh, my God. The dream.
Colin True
00:24:13.030 - 00:24:25.350
The dream. All right, well, thank you so much for joining us, Ashley, everyone. Subscribe to Runner Magazine. Runner. That's it. Here it is.
Where do you guys go to runner.comrunnermag.com.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:25.350 - 00:24:31.470
To those listening to the pod, it is r U N H E R. If you want to check it out.
Colin True
00:24:31.470 - 00:24:33.640
We will link it in the show notes. Thank you for joining us.
Ashley Mateo
00:24:33.640 - 00:24:34.400
Thank you guys so much.
Colin True
00:24:34.400 - 00:24:35.280
I appreciate it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:36.480 - 00:24:37.600
And you can keep that.
Colin True
00:24:40.000 - 00:25:19.360
Well, we did see quite a bit of gear out there today and. Oh my God, is that gear.
Abby's music wow, folks, not only do you have the outdoor industry's leading podcast podcast crew on the Stage with you today, you also have the Outdoor Communities most entertaining podcast hosts, because Gear Abby is here and we would be remiss not to ask her a question.
Okay, so for those of you who may not know, and how dare you for not knowing, we launched a new show this past fall called Gear Abbey, where our own Shantae Salibar answers questions about outdoor people products, places and pastimes. So we came prepared. Shantae. Excuse me, Gear Abby, thank you. Yeah. Are you ready for the question?
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:19.600 - 00:25:20.760
I'm always ready, Colin.
Colin True
00:25:20.760 - 00:25:44.820
Okay. Dear Gear Abby, I've been using an old ass Gatorade squeeze bottle for my college days.
Sounds like something that Fitzkahal does on my runs for years now. My wife keeps threatening to throw it away next time I'm out on a. Business trip because she says it's probably.
Moldy at this point. It's not. To be fair, she did also offer to buy me a new one. So if I'm going to say goodbye, what should I replace it with? Signed Gatorman.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:45.780 - 00:26:07.400
Well, Gatorman, you probably can't hear this, but I just gave you a moment of silence for your decrepit old Gatorade bottle. You know, that's respect. By the way, they still make Gatorade bottles in all sorts of flavors and shapes and colors.
There's metal ones, all little spigot situations. It's a real nice time. But Gatorman and anybody else out here who's curious, I love a good handheld. There's a lot of them on the floor here.
Producer Dave
00:26:07.480 - 00:26:08.120
Who doesn't?
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:09.160 - 00:26:10.440
That's not a euphemism.
Colin True
00:26:11.400 - 00:26:12.280
Oh, sorry.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:12.920 - 00:26:24.040
Sorry, Colin. Yeah, it's not. But maybe it is. But I like the wood. So I have tried the thing where you will strap them on with. Don't say anything, Colin.
Colin True
00:26:24.440 - 00:26:25.960
You can't tee it up like that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:27.210 - 00:26:43.770
With a headband or a buff. But it just feels like I'm wearing a splint, so I want one that actually attaches to my hand.
I also love it when they're wearing the little backpacks. I think that's very exciting as a hiker to bring outdoor. It's like switchback being here at tr. You're bringing outdoor into the run category, right?
Chris DeMakes
00:26:43.850 - 00:26:44.250
Sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:44.490 - 00:26:52.170
You can put your credit card in there, your keys, whatever disgusting gel you're eating that day. Yeah, I think my.
Colin True
00:26:52.410 - 00:26:55.450
I feel like you're about to call out a brand and maybe they're in attendance. We don't know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:55.450 - 00:27:00.710
No, I won't call out any gel brands. That's fine. But I will Say I use a Nathan handheld speed shot.
Colin True
00:27:00.710 - 00:27:01.910
Is anyone here from Nathan?
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:02.070 - 00:27:23.670
And then I got some. I have a beef because here's the thing. I bought it because it said it was insulated.
I live in Southern California, and you know, the very first time I took that thing out, there's no insulation. I feel like the whole insulated handheld thing is kind of bullshit.
So if there are any brands out on the floor at Tre that think they have a handheld that's actually insulated.
Colin True
00:27:23.670 - 00:27:24.710
I'd be interested in this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:24.710 - 00:27:31.650
My liquids cold in Southern California while I am radiating the heat of a thousand suns on runs. Let me know.
Colin True
00:27:31.650 - 00:27:34.210
Furnace around it. It's like, I will defeat this insulation.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:34.210 - 00:27:49.170
Listen, I'm an island girl. I'm Cuban. That's. That's what happens. But yeah, so I think ultimately, Gator man, I always recommend go to a run shop.
That's where you're going to find somebody who is going to help you find the best bottle for your little paws or maybe your large paws. I don't want to. You know, we don't kink Shame on this podcast.
Colin True
00:27:49.170 - 00:27:50.610
No king shaming on gear, Abby.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:50.770 - 00:28:03.990
But yeah, I think that's. That's what I'd say to Gatorman. And you know what, dude, if you want to keep that Gatorade bottle, you could just clean it.
You can use a little bit of bleach. You can use white vinegar and water and just swirl it around and like, the sucky part is where. That's the technical term.
Colin True
00:28:04.070 - 00:28:04.830
Oh, my God.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:04.830 - 00:28:19.470
Sucky part is where. Don't say anything. Owen's gonna leave where all the mold lives. Okay.
But, dude, maybe Gatorade, if you want to keep that, like Gatorman, that sweet, sweet. Those sweet, sweet bpas coming back into your body, you could keep your old.
Colin True
00:28:19.470 - 00:28:21.070
Bottle, but yeah, there you go.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:21.070 - 00:28:21.830
That's all I got for you.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:22.060 - 00:28:22.380
All right.
Colin True
00:28:22.540 - 00:28:24.300
And we did have one on site question.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:24.460 - 00:28:25.260
Oh, did we?
Colin True
00:28:25.260 - 00:28:27.500
Came in from a Lloyd Vogel.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:27.500 - 00:28:28.180
Oh, Lloyd.
Chris DeMakes
00:28:28.180 - 00:28:28.820
Lloyd Moogle.
Colin True
00:28:28.820 - 00:28:30.740
I think he's in attendance. Hi, Lloyd. There he is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:30.740 - 00:28:32.940
Wow. I can't wait to hear what Lloyd definitely asked.
Colin True
00:28:32.940 - 00:28:38.460
Lloyd wants to know if you could only run one surface for the rest of your life, and you've already kind of revealed maybe what your answer is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:38.460 - 00:28:39.020
Going to be today.
Colin True
00:28:39.100 - 00:28:43.300
Would you pick rotor trail, and would the shoe have to have dyneema?
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:43.300 - 00:28:57.150
Oh, well, if I was running with Lloyd, it would have to have dyneema, but no, I think I'd pick trail for the rest of my life. Not just because I like nature. But also because I want it to look purposeful when I fall. So that's why trail's better, in my opinion.
Colin True
00:28:57.870 - 00:29:00.630
Right on. Well, thank you, Gear Abby, for putting on your Gear Abbey hat.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:00.630 - 00:29:01.430
No problem. Anything?
Colin True
00:29:01.430 - 00:29:05.949
Answering some questions. Listen to the Gear Abbey podcast. Everybody out there, if you don't listen to it already, you're missing out.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:05.949 - 00:29:08.150
It's stickers. I got stickers with you.
Colin True
00:29:08.150 - 00:29:08.830
There's stickers.
Kent Ebersole
00:29:09.630 - 00:29:09.990
All right.
Colin True
00:29:09.990 - 00:29:31.270
And lastly for today, if you were at our show at Switchback Spring, we know why you're here. You want to know which booths we liked and which booths maybe missed the. Mark a little bit.
So let's turn things over to the rock Fights brand and creative expert. You know, he's your favorite producer. Dave. Dave. Are you ready to reveal your day one findings?
Kent Ebersole
00:29:31.270 - 00:29:31.630
Come on.
Producer Dave
00:29:31.630 - 00:29:50.840
You know, this was a group effort. Colin and I don't think we said anything. I don't know if they missed the mark. Maybe they were hitting a different mark that we weren't aware of.
Right. Might be more appropriate.
But look, some of the standouts in day one, and I hate to lead with the biggest booth on the floor, and I'm looking at you, Brooks, but.
Colin True
00:29:50.840 - 00:29:52.280
If you go from the moon, but.
Producer Dave
00:29:52.280 - 00:30:21.510
If you go behind the kid, you know, part, you know, big coliseum that they have there, there's a fun house. Right. And back in the Freedom Flex funhouse. Fun house.
And it is a, I think, one of the best expressions of a product concept brought into a booth that I've seen in a long time. So it's the flex, it's the mirrors, it's curved metal shelves, it's the floor graphics.
It really brings to life this idea of a dimensional shoe that moves in shapes. And so that just is, like, really well done. It's really.
Colin True
00:30:21.510 - 00:30:25.230
How much are they paying you to say that? They clearly didn't blow their entire budget on the booth.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:25.470 - 00:30:29.430
I think you got some free shoes for free. They give away shoes, right?
Kent Ebersole
00:30:29.430 - 00:30:30.830
I hear they give away shoes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:31.150 - 00:30:34.630
No, I think they really cornered the market on the parkour shoe, though.
Colin True
00:30:34.630 - 00:30:38.230
Yeah, they did one and only underserved part of the industry.
Producer Dave
00:30:38.230 - 00:30:49.230
Yeah. The other one, you gotta go with Superfeet in their geodesic dome. It's mirrored. It's like a tour of a past tense future. It's fantastic.
I think you said pre apocalyptic.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:49.230 - 00:30:50.230
Pre apocalyptic, yeah.
Producer Dave
00:30:50.230 - 00:31:10.000
That's great. I'm a sucker for the classic. So I am going to call out North Face. They do a booth. Well, simulated ground kind of terrain. Just nice product display.
Arc' teryx. Does the same thing. I'm just wondering when they're going to have the Riverwalk fireworks display. I think that'll go over really well.
Colin True
00:31:10.000 - 00:31:16.280
Did you hear something later tonight? Actually, there are Antos on the other side of the building because they know what's going on at the show.
Producer Dave
00:31:16.280 - 00:31:33.150
Okay. From kind of the smaller brands. There's Revive and Revel. Or Revel. Excuse me, do it again. Revive and Revel.
They took a 10 by 10 and turned it into kind of like Wayne's World's room with album covers and some, you know, like a.
Colin True
00:31:34.030 - 00:31:35.430
Like a teenage boy's band.
Producer Dave
00:31:35.430 - 00:31:37.510
That was great. It was just well done in terms.
Colin True
00:31:37.510 - 00:31:39.990
Of you related is what you're saying, looking at that.
Producer Dave
00:31:39.990 - 00:32:16.840
Well, it was a little almost famous. Sure, right. But no, I just think it's good thought in terms of what they're doing. So I love seeing that.
Next on our list is always looking for kind of the sustainability position or the nature based booths. And like I kind of, you know, comment. It's a little different here because we have, you know, two industries coming together.
But you know, Teva Recycling, that wooden structure, you're always going to get a call out for that Keen, you know, that's their brand. So they really brought it. I think their booth kind of embodies this idea of a sustainable footprint.
They are growing a sprinter van in the middle of the booth, which I think is pretty cool.
Colin True
00:32:17.000 - 00:32:18.440
You put some petroleum in the ground.
Producer Dave
00:32:19.000 - 00:32:25.120
It just kind of comes up. Rabbit has an open floor plan, which is also a nice way to do it. Where you.
Colin True
00:32:25.120 - 00:32:25.880
The unbooth.
Producer Dave
00:32:25.960 - 00:32:29.940
It's an unbooth, right? Kind of like Patagonia. They're kind of like an unbooth.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:30.260 - 00:32:30.900
Are they here?
Eoin Comerford
00:32:30.900 - 00:32:32.940
Okay, they are.
Colin True
00:32:32.940 - 00:32:33.900
They're right over there.
Eoin Comerford
00:32:33.900 - 00:32:34.380
Oh, okay.
Producer Dave
00:32:34.380 - 00:32:45.340
There's a space and then shout out to mount to coast. They're using the kind of the cardboard wall structures. All free form. Again, really, really smart use of it.
Colin True
00:32:45.340 - 00:32:50.420
They sort of assembled an aggregate of different booth types. I feel like they had the running the finish line.
Producer Dave
00:32:50.420 - 00:32:51.380
They did, you're right.
Colin True
00:32:52.340 - 00:32:52.860
Whatever.
Producer Dave
00:32:52.860 - 00:33:12.430
No, I think that's spot on. The next segment is brought to you by the Mannequin Defense League.
This is a group that's out there to make sure that brands are using mannequins in a proper way. And I'm gonna say Saucony and Anta both have nice little displays of mannequins. They're active, they're running. They look like right form.
Colin True
00:33:12.990 - 00:33:14.510
Mannequins don't like to be static.
Producer Dave
00:33:14.510 - 00:33:23.200
They do not. Which, you know, New balance. The product looks nice, but they're kind of like a normcore squad you got there. So I think they're just standing.
I think they prefer to be moving.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:23.680 - 00:33:31.960
What y' all didn't see was every time Dave passed a booth with mannequins, we lost him. He was standing there, just this little small smile on his face, taking notes into his phone.
Kent Ebersole
00:33:31.960 - 00:33:32.800
Only the good ones.
Colin True
00:33:32.800 - 00:33:35.720
We're all pretty convinced he has a bad one of mannequins in his face.
Producer Dave
00:33:35.720 - 00:33:44.720
We cry for sure. ACG had a terrarium going on, so it's always nice to see mannequins in their natural trail environment. Who else did we see?
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:45.760 - 00:33:47.520
I know who we saw. We saw an animal.
Producer Dave
00:33:48.230 - 00:33:58.230
We did Cotopaxi brought the dog Akin, which is also really cool. And shout out to darn tough. They always have the sheep. Akin. Right. Which is really cool to bring. But Cotopaxi.
Chris DeMakes
00:33:58.230 - 00:33:58.550
Yeah.
Colin True
00:33:58.550 - 00:34:02.430
Cotopaxi comeback player of the year from the Switchback spring show, where we gave them some grief.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:02.430 - 00:34:02.790
So.
Chris DeMakes
00:34:02.870 - 00:34:03.350
Yeah.
Kent Ebersole
00:34:05.510 - 00:34:06.470
Right, right.
Producer Dave
00:34:06.870 - 00:34:11.750
It was a better use of space. They had it cozy, nice and warm. We think you can do better.
Chris DeMakes
00:34:12.390 - 00:34:13.030
We do.
Colin True
00:34:13.190 - 00:34:16.150
Keep upping the game, guys. See you in New Orleans.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:16.150 - 00:34:16.550
Which.
Chris DeMakes
00:34:17.089 - 00:34:17.329
Which.
Producer Dave
00:34:17.329 - 00:34:22.769
Which does lead us to what we call the sad trombones, the underperformers.
Colin True
00:34:22.769 - 00:34:25.289
This is why you've stayed around users. You are still here.
Producer Dave
00:34:25.289 - 00:34:29.969
I think, you know, this is just one person's opinion. Colin's. This is Colin's.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:30.049 - 00:34:31.209
It's all Colin. Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:31.209 - 00:34:32.169
We weren't involved in this.
Eoin Comerford
00:34:32.169 - 00:34:32.769
Not at all.
Producer Dave
00:34:32.929 - 00:34:37.089
I'm going to say we saw Cliff Bar and it was really more of a table.
Colin True
00:34:37.169 - 00:34:38.169
We did. They were here.
Producer Dave
00:34:38.169 - 00:34:39.489
They were. It was. You know what?
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:39.569 - 00:34:42.809
It's just an assortment of shot blocks just laid out on the floor. Essentially.
Producer Dave
00:34:42.809 - 00:34:44.249
It was just, you know what, Cliff?
Colin True
00:34:44.249 - 00:34:49.610
Like, they have Kroger money. They don't need to be like, you know, like, whatever, dude. Yeah, here's are some bars.
Producer Dave
00:34:49.610 - 00:35:25.440
You know, just like when your Clif bar gets all soggy, that's kind of just what they were doing. Ultimate direction. I didn't feel very ultimate, and it didn't feel like in the right direction.
I think again, you got to just work a little bit more, get that concept out, which I'm also going to call out Zero, the minimalist brand. They stuffed a lot of content into 10 by 10. And if you're a minimal brand, that does not not give me minimal vibes.
So I think we got to think about that. And then lastly, and probably most sadly, here is Prana Right. Can somebody help me here? But is Prana okay?
Colin True
00:35:25.440 - 00:35:26.120
Are they okay?
Producer Dave
00:35:26.120 - 00:35:26.480
Right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:26.800 - 00:35:28.800
Blink twice if you need help, please.
Colin True
00:35:28.800 - 00:35:30.000
Prana, reach out.
Producer Dave
00:35:30.239 - 00:35:37.360
They just brought a table. I think we can do more. I think they forget they're owned by Columbia sometimes. Like, you've got some money back there. Let's bring it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:37.360 - 00:35:40.280
I don't know. I think Columbia already spent all that money on their advertising campaigns.
Colin True
00:35:40.280 - 00:35:44.280
There's like the over. You get a rebrand, you get a re. Not you. You do not get a rebrand.
Royal Robbins!
00:35:44.280 - 00:35:44.510
Right?
Eoin Comerford
00:35:44.660 - 00:35:47.300
Yeah, look, it was that sorrel ad that was. That was.
Colin True
00:35:47.300 - 00:35:49.460
Yeah, they spent all the products, all their money.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:50.180 - 00:35:50.820
Exactly.
Producer Dave
00:35:51.220 - 00:36:14.670
I think, though, it just goes back to, like, it doesn't matter how big your booth is, how much budget you have to do this storytelling is a conceptual thing in a 3D space. So can you bring your product to life? Can you bring what your product or your brand values to life? And like I said, it's not about two stories.
I mean, UFOS has shown that, but you can really be clever if you put some thought to it.
Colin True
00:36:15.710 - 00:36:16.590
Well done, Dave.
Chris DeMakes
00:36:16.590 - 00:36:17.030
All right.
Colin True
00:36:17.030 - 00:36:18.910
Did we offend anyone, do you think? Was it too bad?
Eoin Comerford
00:36:19.150 - 00:36:19.950
I think we did.
Colin True
00:36:20.030 - 00:36:31.070
All right. Mission accomplished. Listen, guys, that's the show for today. Thank you all so much for being here.
Thank you for listening to the rock Fight and showing up to support the show. Please tip your servers. All right.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:31.070 - 00:36:32.350
Over here. All right.
Colin True
00:36:32.670 - 00:36:34.670
That guy right there, There he is. Yeah, he's waiting on him.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:34.670 - 00:36:35.070
That's it.
Colin True
00:36:35.950 - 00:36:53.110
We'll be here tomorrow. Please stop by and see us if you see us running around. Listen to this show.
We'll be up on Friday and then we'll do our recap show for the entire event, which will be out next Monday. And like always, here to take us out is Krista Manx with the rock fight fight song. And we'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:36:53.110 - 00:37:48.710
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activ activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock flight. Rock flight. Rock flight. Welcome to the Rock flight. Rock flight.
Rock flight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
