The Rock Fight's Top 5 Outdoor Apparel Brands!
- colin7931
- May 26
- 61 min read
We've made you wait long enough! We've finally made it to the conclusion to 2025's 'Top 5 Brand' episodes and we saved the biggest category for last. After ranking the top 5 footwear, gear, and accessories, today we're listing the Top 5 Outdoor Apparel brands!
While completely subjective, the mission is simple: determine the top 5 outdoor apparel brands of the moment. Colin is joined by Shawnté Salabert, Producer Dave, and Eoin Comerford to pick a brand from the following categories:
Emerging/Small Brands
Snow/Surf
Lifestyle/Athleisure
Euro/International
North America Core Outdoor
Will you agree with the final list? Maybe? Maybe Not. But this is a list for all time! Or at least until The Rock Fight runs back this gimmick in 2026.
Check out hundreds of wildly cool products by visiting and shopping at Garage Grown Gear!
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:47.730
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True, and today we finally made it to the biggest and baddest top five we've done so far.
So far. Here on the Rock Fight Today, we're naming the top five outdoor apparel brands.
But before we get to that, have you voted for who drafted the best list of outdoor towns?
I mean, the answer is clearly me, but head to Rockbyte Co to listen to the 2025 outdoor town draft and vote for your favorite roster of outdoor towns. And lastly, if you're heading to Switchback in June, come hang out with producer Dave.
Come hang out with Eoin Comerford and Shante Salabert, and come hang out with me when we record a live episode of the Rock fight on Tuesday, June 17th at 5 o' clock in the trailheads Theater. Hope to see you there. Okay, we'll be right back.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:47.970 - 00:00:51.810
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:54.270 - 00:00:56.150
You're listening to Rock Fight Radio.
Rock Fight Radio!
00:00:56.150 - 00:01:23.910
A ball sock for all times. It's no ordinary sock. It does what it says it does. Fit are socks marine. Oh, but they don't fall down. This sock fits better than your sock.
A funky shaped sock that's an elegant solution to budgin in the toes Heel slippage and falling down at the ankle. A sock with padded tip knit structures that achieve whole foot comfort that you can really feel like.
Producer Dave
00:01:23.910 - 00:01:24.350
Whoa.
Rock Fight Radio!
00:01:24.510 - 00:01:53.950
A sock that like a base layer. A sock that's all about the base layer. A thermo regulating moisture wicking body forming base layer fits is a sock that fits better than your sock.
Maybe even the best sock ever. It really could be fits a bull sock for bull times. It's no ordinary sock. It does what it says it does. Fit, fit, fit, fit, fit, fit.
It really could be fits well you.
Colin True
00:01:53.950 - 00:02:33.690
Got DJCT right here with you. And that was bold sock. The first big hit we ever had from Fitz.
Fitz has been knitting the hits since 2014 with their patented whole foot comfort approach to making fine gauge merino performance socks. They make some of the best basics in the biz. Retailers make sure to stop by and say hi at Goa Connect this June.
It will be sure to put a smile on your toes. And now back to the show.
Well, it took a little longer than we intended but after naming our top five footwear, gear and accessories, I'm here today with producer Dave, with bidet enthusiast Shawn and with consigliere to the rock fight, Captain Owen Comerford. Is everyone ready for another flawless Top 5 Brands episode on the Rock fight?
Producer Dave
00:02:33.770 - 00:02:36.330
Still waiting for a flawless yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:37.130 - 00:02:39.770
It's going to be today, Dave. I feel it in my bones, okay?
Colin True
00:02:40.410 - 00:02:44.490
It's the pursuit of perfection that makes the game worth it.
Producer Dave
00:02:44.490 - 00:02:47.690
And the perfection of the game. Who did we forget this time?
Colin True
00:02:48.170 - 00:02:56.370
Interesting.
Because, Dave, I'm curious, given your background at a textile manufacturer, will you be able to put aside your love for the hundreds of little brands that we won't get to mention today?
Producer Dave
00:02:56.370 - 00:03:21.990
Yes. Yes. You know, call it.
You know, back then we used to have a saying that, you know, we love all of our children equally amongst the hundreds of customers that we had. But I want to tell you that that is not true. That there are some that we did love more than others, others that we did not like seeing demon spawn.
But yes, we will put that all behind us. And look at the. The here and now. The here and now.
Colin True
00:03:22.150 - 00:03:32.290
Oh, and we've added the category of emerging brand, which you mentioned to me you'll have to recuse yourself from because of them. So I don't, I don't own most of these brands.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:32.290 - 00:03:45.890
I, I know most of the brands or I know the founders. I'm maybe advisors to like half of them. But no, I don't own them.
And I was going to say unfortunately, but actually in the current environment, thank God. So, yeah.
Colin True
00:03:47.730 - 00:03:54.130
Ashante made a good point. We were chatting yesterday. When does a brand stop being an emerging brand and just become, hey, they're just a small brand now.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:55.740 - 00:04:00.660
If you're still growing, I think you're emerging. If you're just basically small, then you're just.
Colin True
00:04:00.660 - 00:04:03.100
So it's the growth. The upside of growth is still there.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:03.980 - 00:04:04.620
Exactly.
Producer Dave
00:04:05.180 - 00:04:11.020
Saying that the weight of the world has not yet crushed your spirit and you're still able to show up with hope.
Colin True
00:04:12.140 - 00:04:18.140
Exactly. Off. Mike, you tried to make the case that a small, merino focused brand is the most important brand on the list simply because you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:18.620 - 00:04:19.580
Not how that went.
Colin True
00:04:19.820 - 00:04:21.340
Can we trust your opinion?
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:21.860 - 00:04:30.740
First of all, listeners, Colin's not telling the truth. I don't think I said anything about it being the most important brand. I was just like, hello, you're pretty.
Colin True
00:04:30.740 - 00:04:31.460
Fired up about it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:31.460 - 00:04:37.700
10 brands that I felt were egregious oversights that you forgot to put on the list. So it's like Salomon times 10, buddy.
Colin True
00:04:37.940 - 00:04:41.460
Stop trying to do the listener's job of making us feel bad about forgetting people.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:41.700 - 00:04:45.140
I just want to make sure someone does it in case we don't get any listener mail.
Colin True
00:04:46.900 - 00:04:52.500
I did have one last question for the team. Should we add a category called Authentic Brands versus?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:54.320 - 00:04:55.840
So the Emerging brands, Colin.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:55.920 - 00:04:56.960
It's all one in the same.
Colin True
00:04:57.840 - 00:05:04.480
Emerging from. That's right, Dockers. This year's addition to the Authentic Brands roster.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:04.480 - 00:05:08.320
Okay, here's how this Future Authentic Brands Companies. Okay.
Colin True
00:05:09.200 - 00:05:16.920
Oh, that's a missed opportunity. Let's not do that one on the fly. We'll get ourselves into trouble. But Future Authentic Brands is maybe another. A future episode.
Producer Dave
00:05:16.920 - 00:05:18.400
I like that rock fight.
Colin True
00:05:19.940 - 00:06:26.680
All right, here's how this is going to work. If you haven't listened to one of these episodes in the past, we're going to create a list of the current top five outdoor apparel brands.
The winners of those spots are contractually obligated to sign massive sponsorship deals with the podcast.
Of the list we've done, apparel is probably going to be the biggest undertaking to try and whittle it down to top five, since there are a ton of brands we could consider here. To Shantae's point, to keep it simple, there are five categories we're going to discuss.
Those categories are North American, Core Outdoor, European, International Lifestyle, Athleisure. That's one category. Sorry. Snow and Surf. And then emerging or small brands.
As we talk about different brands, we'll designate them as green, so automatically worthy of consideration. Yellow maybe might be on the cusp. We should think about them. And then red automatically out.
We'll go back and debate the greens and yellows to figure out the winner of each category, which will lead us to then having five brands and thus our top five. And to the listener, we fully acknowledge that we will miss some brands here, except Solomon, who is not eligible for anything in any of these.
You know what you did, Solomon. You know what you did. But for anyone else, sounded like glaring omissions to my rock flight.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:27.160 - 00:06:28.920
You know what you did, Solomon.
Colin True
00:06:29.160 - 00:06:30.200
You know what you did.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:30.520 - 00:06:34.920
I feel like all they need to do to get back in our good graces is sponsor the podcast. Right.
Producer Dave
00:06:35.000 - 00:06:35.400
Done.
Colin True
00:06:36.040 - 00:06:37.360
I mean, it goes a long way.
Producer Dave
00:06:37.360 - 00:06:37.960
That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:38.200 - 00:06:42.840
Does it? Does we. We. We know the column can be bought 100%.
Colin True
00:06:43.320 - 00:06:44.280
That's right, Solomon.
Producer Dave
00:06:44.280 - 00:06:44.920
That's right.
Colin True
00:06:45.670 - 00:06:52.230
You want to get out of. You want to get out of detention? You know what to do. But send your admissions to myrockfightmail.com.
Producer Dave
00:06:52.230 - 00:06:52.710
Yep.
Colin True
00:06:54.710 - 00:06:59.430
Well, we have a consigliere. Gotta get a little more threatening. It's my. My how I figure, you know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:06:59.430 - 00:07:12.070
By the way, also, can I just. Since we brought up consigliere, which I do think is Most wonderful. And we have a producer. And then you just introduced me as bidet enthusiast.
I'd like you to work for the next. Next time we're all on mic together.
Producer Dave
00:07:12.740 - 00:07:13.060
I'm not.
Colin True
00:07:13.060 - 00:07:13.380
Okay.
Producer Dave
00:07:13.380 - 00:07:18.980
I'm not sure you want him to workshop that, Shantae. I think that that might not turn out as you're hoping.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:20.020 - 00:07:33.540
I'll come up with my own title because when I, when I first started in the music industry, I worked for a small indie label and they let me come up with my own title. And what I suggested and got to keep was Mistress of Guerrilla Marketing. So it's just some.
Colin True
00:07:33.620 - 00:07:34.420
That's really good.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:34.500 - 00:07:35.580
Some inspiration for you.
Colin True
00:07:35.580 - 00:07:43.140
Colin, have you thought about, have you tried to apply that to other things just in your career? Like. No, that's just what I am. And from now on, that is my. What you shall call me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:43.330 - 00:07:45.010
I'm going to think about it, actually, after today.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:46.290 - 00:07:50.770
I think, I think at some point in Shantae's life, her nickname has been Salad Bear.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:50.770 - 00:07:59.489
It has been Salad Bar, Salad Bar, Sub Sandwich, and many other things. None. Those, by the way, were not my choices.
Colin True
00:07:59.489 - 00:08:02.530
I like Mistress of Guerrilla Marketing, Gorillas of the Mistress.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:03.250 - 00:08:12.860
But that's a different podcast. It's a different role. That's a lot of different things altogether, right? Only fans for animal enthusiasts.
Colin True
00:08:14.540 - 00:09:19.030
All right, last reminder before we get started, a good rule of thumb like last time, when push comes to shove, if we were starting our own specialty outdoor store, would you stock this brand in your store as sort of a guiding principle, How I definitely like to approach these things, like would I stock this brand? Do I believe in this brand to have in my shop? So that is one last guiding principle here. Any questions about the rules?
All right, well, before we get started, this episode. Today's episode is brought to you by lems Where Big things are coming.
This fall, we're excited to launch a fresh lineup including a special Vibram collaboration featuring our all new Tactical Boot Summit Boot Pro and Chelsea Boot Pro, all built on rugged Vibram outsoles for next level performance. Come check them out in person at the Switchback event in Nashville. June 17th 18th.
Swing by our booth, meet the team and get a first look at what's ahead. In the meantime, explore. Explore more@lemshoes.com all right, we are ready to talk about small or emerging brands.
So Owen, you will contribute to the conversation but you will not weigh in on the final decision, Correct?
Eoin Comerford
00:09:19.110 - 00:09:22.230
Maybe I'll put my thumb on the scale, but no, I will not.
Colin True
00:09:23.350 - 00:09:49.760
So the list I have for small and emerging brands are as follows.
We have Lipson, Nara, Artelect, Virginia, Senshi, Wild Rye, Scenic Ridge Merino, and then I did reach out to our pals at Garage Grown Gear and then and Lloyd sent over the following six brands. Sambob, Farpoint Outdoor Gear, Jolly Gear, Arms of Andes, Half Days and Paca Apparel. And I guess to start the Countess.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:49.760 - 00:09:55.440
I added those last two. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Lloyd was only responsible for the four.
Colin True
00:09:56.730 - 00:10:17.770
Like man, Lloyd just trying to take steal your thunder over here, Owen. You know, blaming Lloyd for that one. But no but for this one.
I mean what is it we're looking for for this, you know, this list and from like is it a, the the potential of where a brand could be, could it be a big brand? Is it the differentiation of the product?
Like when you're going to think about which one you're going to pick here, Shantae, which one are you interested in the most?
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:17.770 - 00:11:28.240
Well, you already know which one I'm interested in the most.
But I will say I have items from quite a few of these brands and I think if I'm thinking about this from if our metric is would this in my fantasy store, it's what would appeal to the most number of people. Like how you know, some of these are very niche, some of these are a little more broad. I have a Senshi that I love so much.
I have Farpoint pants that I love so much. Both of those are Alpha Direct Fleece. Both of those brands are pretty specific in what they make. I have wild rye shorts.
I love, I love what wild rye does. That's a tongue twister. But for my money I'm going for Ridge Merino. You know you already knew I was gonna say this.
I have like 5 of their shirt like Solstice sun hoodies are my favorite thing to hike in. I've got their Crowley tights which are these amazing wool tights for winter. Anyway.
I love, they do undies, they do, you know, lifestyle wear but it's a great, it's based up in Mammoth Lakes.
They, they do a lot of great stuff and, and they, they've expanded a lot over the years but I still think of them as an up and comer that I'm, I'm putting all my money on Ridge Marino here.
Colin True
00:11:28.320 - 00:11:30.640
Dave, what are your thoughts on the smaller emerging goods?
Producer Dave
00:11:30.720 - 00:11:35.440
Go with Melanzana. Oh wait a minute. They're not on here.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:35.520 - 00:11:39.040
They're not on this list. You can't even get a Melanie.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:39.040 - 00:11:39.560
They don't sell.
Producer Dave
00:11:39.560 - 00:11:43.200
That's something you can actually buy what? What?
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:44.640 - 00:11:45.520
Your store is going to have to.
Colin True
00:11:45.520 - 00:11:48.880
Be in Leadville if you want to make an appointment and travel to Leadville.
Producer Dave
00:11:49.280 - 00:11:49.640
Right.
Colin True
00:11:49.640 - 00:11:52.710
You. Yeah. Which is awesome. I love that they do that by the way. That's.
Producer Dave
00:11:52.710 - 00:11:57.830
Well, I thought that they should at least be mentioned if we're talking about that. You mentioned them.
Colin True
00:11:57.830 - 00:11:57.990
Good.
Producer Dave
00:11:57.990 - 00:12:15.550
That's right. I am going to take the opposite approach in terms of broadness about specificity. If I've got my store, I want to make sure I have brands.
That's specificity. Did I just. Specificity. At least she's going to. Slightly wrong.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:16.510 - 00:12:17.430
Just keep saying it.
Producer Dave
00:12:17.430 - 00:12:23.610
I'm going to. I'm going to sit here for a friggin hour. So now I lost my train of thought.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:23.610 - 00:12:24.690
Specificity. Yes.
Producer Dave
00:12:24.690 - 00:12:25.970
I've lost my train of thought.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:25.970 - 00:12:26.770
Specificity.
Producer Dave
00:12:26.770 - 00:12:29.970
Thank you. No, I can't even say it now. What the heck.
Shawnté Salabert
00:12:30.370 - 00:12:31.930
Not all words are meant for all people.
Producer Dave
00:12:31.930 - 00:12:35.570
Right. Damn it. It's a good Scrabble word though.
Colin True
00:12:35.970 - 00:12:41.050
My thought on this is if there's a small brand, what can they offer that nobody else on the list can offer?
Producer Dave
00:12:41.050 - 00:12:42.050
That's where I was going.
Colin True
00:12:42.370 - 00:13:00.810
And I look at this as I look at. Honestly, Scenic, Wild Rye and Nara are probably the three that I would look at in terms of.
There's very little that I think than other brands on this list can offer what those three do specifically. And if I was going to bring something new and interesting into my shop, I would look at those three as a starting point.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:02.010 - 00:13:36.930
Yeah, for me it would be. I think the. These new emerging brands are adding newness and innovation to the space. Otherwise why.
Why start the brand and as a store owner I'm looking at new brands to add a little excitement. Right. There's a lot of same. Same with the. The core. You know who's out there and we don't need just another fleece or puffy jacket or whatever.
We need something that's new and interesting. So yeah, I'd be looking at the brands that are. Yes. Adding something different to your point.
You know what, those guys, the, the scenics, the lives ins etc.
Shawnté Salabert
00:13:36.930 - 00:14:12.020
I see what you're saying there. Then I'm going to make a pitch for Jolly Gear because that brand is a very unusual brand.
It's aimed at backpackers and through hikers specifically but anybody could wear them. But it's.
It's these shirts that are designed to be like a combination of button down and sun hoodie and then they make dresses now and they make short sleeve shirts and anyway It's a very interesting niche product that now when you go out on the trails, you can't go on any long trail without seeing many, many people wearing the jolly like jolly gear shirts. The artwork is great. They do different artwork each season.
Colin True
00:14:12.180 - 00:14:14.260
Dave, did you. Did you settle on a couple here?
Producer Dave
00:14:14.420 - 00:15:41.340
I've always had my eye on Senshi. I think. Yes. They've got a very specific audience and from the through hiker crowd loves what they're making.
But if you peel it back even further, they're the ones that really kind of broke through. With the Alpha Direct product as a primary garment, Alpha had been used. First off, Alpha had a very slow introduction.
Brands were kind of slow to figure out what to do with it. It was primarily being used in the same way you'd use fill insulation, which really isn't the best use for it. And it was.
Neurona might have been the first brand even to really take it and try it on the outside, if you will. Forcing, not forcing, let's just say encouraging Polartech to create a more durable version called Alpha Direct that could be worn on the outside.
But it kind of still sat there for a little bit, didn't really pick up. And I thought, I think Senshi was the first one to really make a business out of it that had.
Their cuts were interesting, their colors were fantastic. Fantastic. Some of that was out of necessity because, you know, military has first claim on all that Alpha product.
And so they were kind of taking what they could get and then they just turned to dyeing. These are just incredible colors. And so. And then everybody jumped on it as soon as they started kind of making traction.
Now everybody's got an Alpha Direct piece, you know, in their line all across the board. So I just talks about trend and trend setting. I'm going to give it to those guys. I think they really do a good job.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:41.990 - 00:16:18.010
Oh, I love that. And you know, the interesting thing about them is that they've created this model where, yeah, they influenced all these other brands to jump on it.
But also they still, to this day they do it in a drop format where they're like, all right, the next, like, I get the emails because I own some Senshi products and they'll be like, all right, the next drop is happening on this date. Like, it creates that fervor over the product.
And you know, you see this a lot with a lot of online marketing now where it's like, oh, you've got to be ready to get our product at this day and this time, but it works. And in this case, it's got a cult following. So it'd be really interesting to see a brand like that end up with a wider market by.
By ending up in specialty stores.
Colin True
00:16:19.050 - 00:17:06.210
Yeah. What I like about that too is the product differentiation.
I think the only other brand I can think of that I've seen that does something similar with a hoodie is Northwest Alpine. They have a hoodie that's a. That's an Alpha direct hoodie, kind of similar to Senshi. Other than that, there's not a lot of other.
Other brands on this list doing something like that. So I think what we maybe we should do here for this one to kind of. Okay. Farpoint does as well. They're doing a similar thing there. Well, I look at.
So in nara doing what they're doing with the Shefly. You know, with the Shefly. Right. I think that is a.
If I'm going to put a small and emerging brand in my store, a product differentiation I think is what Owen was referencing is important. So it's not just like, hey, it's a small brand that's kind of doing similar things to what other brands are doing in your shop.
So I'm going to Green Nara and Senshi. We're going to Yellow, Wild, Rye Ridge and Jolly Gear. And then when we come back for the final list, I think maybe those are the ones.
Producer Dave
00:17:06.530 - 00:17:12.410
You might have the yellow Arms of Andy's too. Just because they got the best name of the bunch. I think that's.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:12.410 - 00:17:14.210
I don't even know what they do. I've never heard.
Colin True
00:17:14.290 - 00:17:15.210
I have no idea.
Producer Dave
00:17:15.210 - 00:17:19.970
But, man, I'm intrigued. Right? I'm intrigued. What house are you from? I'm from Arms of Andy.
Colin True
00:17:19.970 - 00:17:20.730
Arms of Andes.
Producer Dave
00:17:20.730 - 00:17:21.250
That's right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:21.970 - 00:17:24.330
I feel like Lloyd made that one up because I was.
Producer Dave
00:17:24.330 - 00:17:31.570
He could be. But just a map. You can see the patches and the T shirts are already right there. That's fantastic.
Colin True
00:17:31.930 - 00:17:34.810
You could make concert style T shirts with Arms of Andes. It'd be a good.
Producer Dave
00:17:34.970 - 00:17:36.730
The whole thing. They can. They can run the gamut.
Colin True
00:17:36.730 - 00:17:43.530
Yeah. All right. Does everybody feel good about those selections for small and emerging brands?
And we'll come back and finalize when we're ready for the final list.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:43.850 - 00:17:47.370
I. I can't. I cannot comment. But you're all wrong. But okay.
Colin True
00:17:48.330 - 00:17:49.530
That's not interesting.
Producer Dave
00:17:49.770 - 00:17:50.410
Interesting.
Colin True
00:17:50.490 - 00:17:56.370
Actually I will. Why don't you say what you think it should be and I'll. I will bleep it so no one knows actually what you said the brand.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:56.370 - 00:18:10.950
It should be is.
And not just because I work with them, but because they're really at the forefront both in terms of sustainability, but also really a differentiated brand that is very pro independent, especially retail.
Colin True
00:18:11.030 - 00:18:25.560
All right, let's move into Snow and Surf. I'm just going to read the top five or six we have on here and we can start the conversation.
So we have Burton Obermeyer, spider686, picture organic, flylogner and Trugear. And then we get into some more.
Producer Dave
00:18:25.560 - 00:18:31.560
Colin, you forgot Roxy, Volcom, Free Fly and o' Neill. And what about Quicksilver and Quick Silver?
Colin True
00:18:31.880 - 00:18:33.080
There's a lot on here.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:33.160 - 00:18:34.280
Vissla rhythm.
Producer Dave
00:18:34.680 - 00:18:39.960
Yeah. You know what this looks like? Who has an Looks like authentic brands portfolio?
Colin True
00:18:41.320 - 00:18:52.920
It does a little bit. That's one reason why I didn't want to get too deep into that list. Dave? Well, actually, Owen, you couldn't really comment on the last category.
Why don't you kick us off on Snow and Surf? What are you thinking about on Snow and Surf?
Eoin Comerford
00:18:53.950 - 00:19:48.410
I mean, I think to the point, I mean it is a bit of a mixed bag here. There's a, you know, surf obviously has struggles and then snow has been a bit up and down.
You know, to me it would be hard to have a store and not have Burton in it.
Personally, you know, I think they have been innovators for decades within the space, you know, and it's still a pure, very founder led, obviously not quite anymore, but still very founder inspired as a company. So to me that would be the big one.
Obermeyer, on the snow side, obviously a little bit of an older company, older kind of a deal, but still to its core is a snow brand. And then I love Picture Organic. So those would be probably my 3 picture just for maybe the younger crowd.
A little bit more of a fun, cool, hip vibe for me.
Colin True
00:19:48.970 - 00:19:50.770
Shantay, do you have anything you want to say about snow?
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:50.770 - 00:20:27.420
I don't have a whole lot I want to say about Snow. I'm a SoCal girl. I don't, you know, when I'm spending time in the snow, I'm like snowshoeing or very uncomfortably snow backpacking and camping.
But I would go, yeah. Burton to me is like a must have. And I can't picture having a, a snow, any snow sports section in the store that doesn't have that.
I will say I put a little, I'll put a little something out there for 686 because that's one brand that I actually have owned and loved. And I was shocked by how much I liked it. And it's a Brand I don't think gets as much attention as some of the others on this list, but.
But pretty solid stuff.
Colin True
00:20:27.580 - 00:20:37.660
Yeah. Dave, what do you think? I think going right on Burton. But I really would like to make a case for our true gear.
A Flylo or a picture would be probably the ones I'd maybe I'd personally be the most interested in.
Producer Dave
00:20:37.740 - 00:20:53.150
Well, they're definitely the emerging of this category. Right? I mean, picture in this country anyway, emerging. But the others for sure.
It's funny, I saw that that Free Fly or that, you know, are those, is that an emerging brand?
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:53.950 - 00:20:56.750
Free Fly is a fly fishing brand. Is that what you're talking about?
Producer Dave
00:20:57.069 - 00:21:03.070
Well, it's all. They're kind of a water river lifestyle type of thing, right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:03.390 - 00:21:06.910
Yeah, I like their stuff a lot. I've got, I've got several items by them.
Producer Dave
00:21:07.400 - 00:21:50.220
I like all that. But in terms of the classic, you're right. Burton still stands above.
And it's interesting too that of the trouble that the snow surf category has had, they're still at it and they're still kind of have their stop, their top perch kind of. And so I think that's interesting just in terms of the health of that 686. I agree. They've done some interesting things recently.
Their product is really. I mean I always saw them as kind of a secondary brand to the, kind of the, the, the rest of the, the, the snow surf skate card.
You know, they were always just kind of out there. But I think their product has really gotten better. The color palettes and things.
I mean, it's just, it's hip, there's a, there's kind of a more sophistication to it, which I just can't believe I'm saying.
Colin True
00:21:50.700 - 00:22:19.900
But when you get more into the surf brands, it definitely gets problematic in terms of where they are, the authentic brand of it all that, that there's a lot of, there's a lot of that kind of baked into some of these brands. And if we're talking about this going into an outdoor store, this is more of a. And more so than a snow or surf.
This is action sports more than anything. Right.
So is there one of these brands that has a little bit broader seasonality where it isn't just snow or isn't just surf, but kind of year round you could stock it and it would have something to offer in that category, don't you think?
Producer Dave
00:22:19.900 - 00:22:26.020
We have a lot of other categories for that, Colin, aren't we here for the snow? Aren't we here for the surf? Right.
Colin True
00:22:26.660 - 00:22:35.520
I guess so.
I'm just saying if you have, you know, if you're an again, outdoor store, you're probably going to have someone from the core outdoor with a lot, lot of winter stuff, right? Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:35.520 - 00:23:02.890
I mean the emerging brands on that side would be Rhythm and Katon. Those are definitely hot and actually I think they're huge beneficiaries of the whole implosion of the liberated brands scenario.
They've gained share and I think they're going to keep it. I was in Backcountry's LA store a few weeks ago and there was a ton of Katon in there. Mm.
Producer Dave
00:23:03.770 - 00:23:06.610
They've been waiting 15 years to make the move going so.
Colin True
00:23:06.610 - 00:23:07.450
And that's a.
Producer Dave
00:23:07.610 - 00:23:09.010
Now's their, now's their chance.
Colin True
00:23:09.010 - 00:23:21.210
I mean, I know it's back country's grow, you know, store at the Grove, but that's an outdoor store and that that brand was in that store. Maybe Kaden gets the green marks as we, as we exit this category.
Producer Dave
00:23:22.410 - 00:23:25.170
I don't know. I don't know if they're worthy. I would, I wouldn't give it, you.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:25.170 - 00:23:29.160
Know, put a green on picture though as well. I mean if I would too, I.
Colin True
00:23:29.160 - 00:23:32.720
Would do any love for the Fly lows or the True Gears.
Producer Dave
00:23:34.480 - 00:23:52.280
I do like them, but I don't know if I would make the distinction between that and a picture like, like if I had to choose. Right. Pictures are. And again, they've been doing it for a while. They've been building and building and building.
You kind of see them go from a small little booth and a cool little concept to a major player and.
Colin True
00:23:52.280 - 00:24:11.400
One of the few to kind of make that entry into North America and get some traction. Okay, so we'll yellow Obermeyer, Burton 686 Flylo True and rhythm. But we'll Green picture and Kaden.
Those are kind of our two contenders as we exit out of snow and surf.
Producer Dave
00:24:12.200 - 00:24:14.280
I'm waving to Spider. Sorry, Spider.
Colin True
00:24:15.320 - 00:24:56.960
Just know before we get to our next category, we want to tell everybody that today's episode is brought to you by Garage Grown Gear. Dreaming of your next backpacking trip this summer, Garage Grown Gear can help your dreams become a reality.
They're your one stop destination for all your ultralight backpacking gear needs and wants. From the big three backpacks, shelters and sleep systems to all the accessories and small gear pieces that are just as essential.
GGG is known for carrying all the latest gear from small cottage and ultralight brands, some of which you can't find anywhere else. Check out the Link in the show notes and happy trails.
This summer, head to garagegrowngear.com and now I would like to have our other two co hosts, Owen and Dave, weigh in on Shantae's hate for the first.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:58.960 - 00:25:03.680
Time. It's guys. It doesn't come from the mouth naturally. Ggg.
Colin True
00:25:03.920 - 00:25:05.360
Gosh, I think it rolls right off.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:06.160 - 00:25:10.640
There's no rolling garage grown gear producer Dave, as the.
Colin True
00:25:11.200 - 00:25:14.400
As the official brand guy of Rock Fight, how do you feel about ggg?
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:14.400 - 00:25:15.440
What about Triple G?
Producer Dave
00:25:16.640 - 00:25:18.000
I agree with Sean.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:18.640 - 00:25:25.360
Triple G would be true. Much like Triple D. Diners drive ins and dives, obviously. So I don't think it can go there.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:25.840 - 00:25:26.960
No. I think. Or just.
Producer Dave
00:25:26.960 - 00:25:28.480
Sure. That's what we think of when we.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:28.480 - 00:25:34.720
Say Triple G. I think of it. I don't ever say the third G when I am Triple G. If it.
Producer Dave
00:25:34.720 - 00:25:36.560
Was a tech company, you just call it 3G.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:37.040 - 00:25:41.440
You're right. Or like an innovative fabric. 3G.
Producer Dave
00:25:42.400 - 00:25:43.960
Yeah, 3G. That's right.
Colin True
00:25:43.960 - 00:25:50.230
Well, I will leave it to the good marketing folks at Garageground Gear who send us the copy we read here on the show. If they would like us to not say that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:50.540 - 00:25:53.500
Okay, just hire me as your copywriter and I'll fix it.
Colin True
00:25:57.260 - 00:26:01.980
All right, so moving into this is the hardest category. Lifestyle athleisure.
Producer Dave
00:26:02.540 - 00:26:04.420
There's a lot of hard Colin.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:04.420 - 00:26:04.860
So many.
Producer Dave
00:26:05.420 - 00:26:07.260
Why? So why is it hard?
Colin True
00:26:07.260 - 00:26:18.780
Because there's. We've what, like 30 brands, and we probably still missed another 30. I mean, there's so many.
Do we just want to talk broadly about the lifestyle category in the outdoor space? Does anybody have any thoughts on that?
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:18.780 - 00:26:30.080
I think there's a lot. Okay, so I'm. I'm all for the blend. You know, I think I brought up a brand that you apparently refused to add here, which is Outdoor Voices. But they.
Colin True
00:26:30.080 - 00:26:31.000
Oh, did I forgot to put.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:31.000 - 00:26:37.960
Yeah, you did. Even though I told you to. That's because you were ignoring all of my texts after a certain point yesterday.
Colin True
00:26:37.960 - 00:26:39.800
I was busy shopping over on ggg.
Producer Dave
00:26:39.880 - 00:26:40.280
And.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:43.400 - 00:27:06.400
Anyway, I think. I think we have a really broad list here because you just went in every direction. Like, there's some workwear stuff on here.
Great stuff, but workwear. You got the puffy coat factor in here. You've got things like free people and Lululemon. You know, so it's like, what do we actually.
When we're talking. You got parks project. They're not real.
I don't think of them as an apparel manufacturer as much as I think of them as a manufacturer of things with parks. On them.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:07.520 - 00:27:08.680
But the things are.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:08.680 - 00:27:18.200
It's like life is good. Yeah, they're apparel.
But I mean, when I think about outdoors apparel, I'm not wearing a cotton T shirt because as we've talked about in this podcast.
Colin True
00:27:18.200 - 00:27:19.680
But this. But this is the.
Producer Dave
00:27:20.660 - 00:27:21.540
So do bikinis.
Colin True
00:27:21.620 - 00:27:36.980
This trajectory that the outdoor industry has set us on, we have to, like the 1972 or whatever, right. I mean, this is where we were headed. This is how.
How soon did all of those brands coming out of the 60s and 70s, as quickly as they could, added a T shirt and a plaid shirt.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:37.220 - 00:27:47.990
But I think there's a difference between what somebody like a Prana or a Cotopaxi or a totem company even is doing versus something like a Lululemon or LOL or whatever, you know?
Colin True
00:27:47.990 - 00:27:56.030
But it all fits into that kind of. The Venn diagram crosses over. And like, any of these brands would be natural if you walked into an outdoor store to see any one of them in there.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:56.430 - 00:27:58.430
You wouldn't be surprised to see these brands.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:58.750 - 00:28:06.270
Yeah, no, you wouldn't. I mean, I don't. I still think free people is kind of a. I don't. You wouldn't see free people in an outdoor store, but a lot of these were.
Colin True
00:28:06.670 - 00:28:08.310
Yeah. We're pulling from sales data, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:28:08.310 - 00:28:09.150
You would. Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:09.150 - 00:28:12.880
I mean, they have their own store. Oh, really?
Eoin Comerford
00:28:13.120 - 00:28:44.200
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's just list some of these rounds so people know what the heck we're talking about.
Viori Prana, Kotapaxi, Carhartt, Howler Brothers Carve Designs, Crimson Clover, Doerr Toyden Co, Beyond Yoga Canada Goose Ferrity, Free People, Chubbies, Sherpa Adventure Gear, Filson Aventura, Outdoor Voices, Montclair, Aloe Loly, Dovetail Parks Project Dickies Mountain Khakis, Kavu, Life Is Good, Topo Designs, Ether. I mean, the list goes on and on and on and on and on.
Colin True
00:28:44.200 - 00:28:49.600
We wanted to include passenger, but the President of the United States said, no, we couldn't do that. So that's why we couldn't. You know, they don't qualify.
Producer Dave
00:28:50.000 - 00:28:51.120
Did they go to Harvard?
Colin True
00:28:51.280 - 00:28:55.520
No, they had to leave the United States. They were deported. Passenger was deported.
Producer Dave
00:28:56.240 - 00:28:56.880
I see.
Colin True
00:28:57.520 - 00:29:20.060
It's a broad list. And so picking one and there's definitely like. I mean, it's kind of taunted, to your point. I think, to a certain degree. Right.
You know, like a coat epoxy or a Sherpa, you could say, belong over on the core list. I mean, there's definitely. And then. And then to your point, some of these things are like That's a T shirt brand.
So if you're going to pick one, is it like a Toad and Co Toad company? Like, is that kind of where we want to go with this?
Eoin Comerford
00:29:20.620 - 00:29:26.780
I know the one I would pick, which is, well, I mean, if you want sales, you pick Fiori.
Colin True
00:29:28.620 - 00:29:29.020
Right?
Eoin Comerford
00:29:29.820 - 00:30:06.110
You just do. I mean, it's the fastest growing brand in outdoor retail, quite frankly. And it's just, you may not love it, but it works.
And the other nice thing about it is that it is a full price brand. You know, they are a brand in demand and outdoor retailers are getting full margin for that product.
And people that buy it, love it and keep coming back and buying more. They get the pants in one color and they come back and they buy it in three more colors.
So that's the one of all the brands on this page that's really making huge inroads into the outdoor industry.
Colin True
00:30:06.710 - 00:30:26.870
Yeah, I struggle with this. Usually I look at the list, I'm like, oh, that's the one I like. Or at least that's the one I prefer.
And I, and I tend to agree with you because it's like, well, there's only no one on here that I'm just sort of partial to. And so at that point it becomes like, well, which one I got to put in my shop? Like, you know, already is kind of killing it right now.
Dave, what do you got?
Producer Dave
00:30:27.910 - 00:30:39.040
Well, Viori, I feel like dawn is going to rise and turn that brand to dust at some point.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:39.040 - 00:30:43.920
Wow. Oh my God, you are using words. Rocks are thrown.
Producer Dave
00:30:44.000 - 00:30:54.400
Holders are being billion dollar valuation, but okay, $8 billion. And they took 7.95 billion in VC equity to get that 8 billion.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:54.560 - 00:31:06.760
Not true, not true. Their last two rounds have been secondary offerings. They're not even raising money. They're making so much money off their core business.
They're just selling shares to line the pockets of the existing equity owners.
Producer Dave
00:31:07.720 - 00:31:21.360
To line the. Yeah, that's what it feels like. It feels like a commercial venture.
It doesn't feel like a lifestyle identifier brand that people attach their personal kind of experience to.
Shawnté Salabert
00:31:21.360 - 00:31:22.520
I'm with you, Dave, 100%.
Producer Dave
00:31:23.720 - 00:32:00.040
That's my issue. And it just exudes that. I mean, even their communication is just the most bass level. Here's the product and here's the stock music.
And it works because they have all that cash and can just, just sledgehammer it and have made a bit. And look, their product though, is lovely.
It's soft, it's, you know, it has a nice visceral feel to it but I just from a lifestyle brand, I want more of that community connection as to who, who is our tribe and what are we, what are we bringing to the table more than just dollars and cents and, and even products.
Colin True
00:32:00.360 - 00:32:02.040
So who on this list does that for you?
Producer Dave
00:32:03.560 - 00:32:36.940
Who does that? Well, you know, you. Codapaxi has done a good job with that, cultivating that kind of vibe around that. I mean I think a lot of these do that.
Howler does that. Doer's got their own thing with their product. Toad is tried for a long time. I've never really, never really bought it.
Filson clearly has a thing that they've cultivated around that that's very product centric to, to outdoor voices. I mean Montclair. I mean look at. There's a lot of these brands that have done just that.
So I don't, I don't have a, I don't have a top, top dog there yet.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:37.820 - 00:33:28.560
It's a tough pick. I mean I, I'm in that same struggle because yeah, Cotopaxi I, to me that's, that's a definite winner. I also think Prana is still a strong brand.
I think that clearly it is from a sales perspective, but I also think that people identify with it.
I think they, they ride the line really well between functional things, like things I would actually take out into the mountains or out to the surf or whatever and then things that are more pure lifestyle. And I think they ride that line really well. So that appeals to a lot of different kinds of people.
I also am just going to make a play here for outdoor voices since. Thank you for putting it back on the list.
I really think they were revolutionary in bridging the gap between outdoor and lifestyle in a different way than had been done, which I think was very surf focused in the past and very Toad in that Toad realm of like Crag hoppers, like that whole realm. I think outdoor voices.
Colin True
00:33:28.560 - 00:33:30.960
Crag hoppers. While crag hoppers getting a mention.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:32.560 - 00:33:34.640
Had to bust out my Wisconsin accent for that.
Producer Dave
00:33:35.040 - 00:33:36.320
Next is Arborware.
Colin True
00:33:36.640 - 00:34:39.439
Yeah, if Arborware on this list, I'd vote for them just based off of loyalty from like or 2007 or whatever it was I discovered. I love those guys. Oh man.
You know, Prana is kind of where I want to go because I feel like in 10 case for code epoxy that kind of like again the center of the Venn diagram of everything you're kind of talking about. And, but it just their. And I haven't looked recently but they definitely feel like their branding definitely wasn't as strong as it used to be.
When you go to their website, it's just not quite what it was. But it's still great product and it still stand for something and the history there is better than a toten company or something like that.
The problem, and I think, Dave, you articulated is it's really hard to make a case of not against just putting going against Fuari. I really think it's hard.
I think they've kind of just saw this as this kind of confusing part of the equation and just moved in and said we own this now. And they do. And if they go back to the are you opening a shop and who are you bringing in? Like, why wouldn't you.
Because you're probably going to sell a lot of it. But also, I know you feel like you're rooting for the emperor here if we add them to the list.
Producer Dave
00:34:42.879 - 00:35:02.090
Well, I just again, what does a lifestyle brand do for your store? And obviously there's the dollars piece of this is super important.
But there is, you're going to be carrying some of these that maybe don't deliver the same roa on that, but do bring in a certain customer. Right. Or position you as relevant with that customer.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:02.810 - 00:35:59.190
I mean, which is I think a lot of the lifestyle, what a lot of the lifestyle brands bring is a level of approachability and also repeat purchase. Because if somebody's just coming in to buy a shell, maybe that's all they buy from that brand, especially on the women's side.
Because, you know, I think while outdoor brands tend to do better with apparel for guys, you know, it's interesting. Women will come in and they will, you know, buy that, you know, warm winter jacket from name the brand in the core outdoor section.
But they really want nothing to do with that brand when it comes to their everyday lifestyle apparel.
And so in many cases, that's where some of these brands come in, is they bridge that gap and they provide product that is not just approachable but where people want to keep coming and buying it and seeing what they come up with season after season as opposed to maybe the more staid stuff that you're seeing coming out of the core outdoor crowd.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:59.910 - 00:36:02.790
I think that's so true. That's, that's my prana vote right there.
Colin True
00:36:03.510 - 00:36:16.230
When you were at Moustache Owen, was there a brand that really kind of owned the space or was it mostly, you know, an amalgamation of like a lifestyle product from the core outdoor brands who kind of took up this, you know, this category for you?
Eoin Comerford
00:36:16.470 - 00:37:07.780
Oh, no, no. We Definitely we bought from quite a few of these, these brands.
Viori, you know, in the last, you know, call it four or five years, was absolutely the biggest player. They were actually one of our top brands in our stores, like overall ahead of Patagonia. I mean, that kind of overall.
So, I mean, so they were just a really big player. Prana was, I would say more of a stalwart, just especially with their Stretch Zion franchise. That was just kind of a key.
Like that was the key pet program that really drove the business. And we get into some of their other products as well. But it was. Was more about pants for. For and bottoms in general for Prana.
But no, of this list, Vuori and probably Kotapaxi would, would, would have been the big two.
Colin True
00:37:08.500 - 00:38:02.650
So Cotopaxi and Prana. I, I feel like if we get, if we award them this, then it's just kind of an extension of like.
Well, we have two kind of almost like core outdoor brands on the list. Right. I feel like we should go a little different than that avenue, which we can come back to this when we go back to the final debates. But the.
I wonder if again, this is what Passenger, I think was trying to do in the US and what they're trying to do everywhere else is kind of be that sort of solution here.
And honestly, I look at Arroyo Robins who we have over in core and should they be in kind of this position, but they are too much of their history being in Yosemite and climbing, they kind of default over to that point. But if you look at their assortment, it kind of slots in next to a lot of these guys too.
All right, for the sake of moving on, I've got outdoor Voices, Howler Brothers, Cotopaxi, Prana and Vuari. Do we want to throw a Kavu in there just to have another brand or do we feel like, do we like those five or is it Toppo.
Producer Dave
00:38:02.970 - 00:38:05.770
Or Topo, I guess would be the appropriate Topo design.
Colin True
00:38:06.250 - 00:38:12.330
I think of them as more for their shoes. I think is another Topo designs and Topo's.
Producer Dave
00:38:13.450 - 00:38:23.890
And I say Topo in the sense that they were on the beginning trend of the, the let's call it stylization of outdoor lifestyle.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:23.890 - 00:38:26.290
That was outdoor voices. Like, I really feel like you guys.
Colin True
00:38:26.290 - 00:38:26.930
Have to give us.
Producer Dave
00:38:27.970 - 00:38:30.170
But Topo was first. They were first.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:30.170 - 00:38:32.610
Yeah, I guess. But I think it's bags.
Colin True
00:38:32.930 - 00:38:33.930
Yeah, I think of the bags, whereas.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:33.930 - 00:38:35.570
I think of outdoor voices as clothing.
Colin True
00:38:35.890 - 00:38:36.290
Right.
Producer Dave
00:38:36.690 - 00:38:56.210
Okay, let's invalidate the history. You're absolutely right that we're here for this is revisionist history matter. You're absolutely right. Nope, let's just. You're right.
For years, you know, I'm going to tell you that Outdoor Voice has probably used Topo as an example of a brand in their investor deck. Right. Of ways to attack this market conspiracy.
Colin True
00:38:56.210 - 00:38:56.850
Davis here.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:56.850 - 00:39:00.290
Stylistic Outdoor Voices has been around for a while.
Producer Dave
00:39:01.570 - 00:39:30.020
Yeah. It's just the, like, in this listing of groups, you have almost kind of like your core style brands, which are core outdoor doing lifestyle.
And then you have your absolutely natively new school outdoor lifestyle, which Topo's a part of, which Outdoor Voices is that are coming at it completely different, but still part of this outdoor thing. We are. So it's really two types of vibes coming out of here.
Colin True
00:39:30.020 - 00:39:45.940
The history might be that case, but when I Google Topo designs, I get a row of images of backpacks. And when I Google Outdoor Voices, I get a row of images of apparel. So for the sake of.
You could be right about the history, but for the sake of where we are today, who we're going to bring in, that's kind of how the market sees them.
Producer Dave
00:39:45.940 - 00:39:46.110
Yeah.
Colin True
00:39:46.580 - 00:39:53.620
All right, let's move into European and international. And we know we're gonna probably. We're not done yet with lifestyle athleisure. So on intern.
Producer Dave
00:39:53.780 - 00:39:56.540
Wait a minute. In Montclair, we have a lifestyle and not European.
Colin True
00:39:56.540 - 00:39:59.700
That's a good point. We can move them over. We can really talk about them.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:59.940 - 00:40:01.660
Yeah, we're not gonna pick them, but.
Colin True
00:40:01.660 - 00:40:03.620
Sure, let's pick them in either one.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:04.660 - 00:40:06.340
But it's a nice friendly gesture.
Colin True
00:40:06.420 - 00:40:09.420
It is. Yeah. Look at you, Montclair. You're about two lists. Good for you.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:09.420 - 00:40:13.440
Look at all those Montclair owners. They're such nice, friendly people. I think we should do this.
Colin True
00:40:15.590 - 00:40:21.510
Here's the list we have with Helly Hansen, Fjall Raven, Rab. Is it Carrie tra. Did I mention Caritra?
Eoin Comerford
00:40:21.510 - 00:40:21.910
Carrie tra.
Colin True
00:40:21.910 - 00:40:43.960
Cari tra. Thank you. I'm not as familiar. Nerona Desant, Mammut Barber Shoos. Dales of Norway. Houdini, Mije Aider, Ayder Eider. How much is it? Just Aider.
Do I throw the accent on it? Mountain Equipment, Mont Bel. We Norwegians. And now Moncler. That's obviously Dales of Norway. Right? I mean, Dale's of Norway for the win.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:43.960 - 00:40:44.400
Clearly.
Producer Dave
00:40:44.400 - 00:40:48.920
I mean, we Norwegians can also work too. Or I should say us.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:49.000 - 00:40:56.800
By the way, kudos. Kudos to Colin for like hit nail nailing Chuse right up. Right. I mean, he.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:56.800 - 00:40:57.640
That was Very good.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:57.640 - 00:40:58.160
Like a pro.
Colin True
00:40:58.160 - 00:40:58.600
Thank you.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:58.600 - 00:40:59.160
Like a pro.
Colin True
00:40:59.160 - 00:41:02.360
Yeah. Did you google that, Carrie? Tra. But I got shoes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:02.680 - 00:41:03.160
Sorry.
Producer Dave
00:41:03.320 - 00:41:08.800
Like a former, like a former ingredient salesperson. He nailed shoes. That's exactly right.
Colin True
00:41:08.800 - 00:41:10.170
And a good alpha jacket from Schoos.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:13.280 - 00:41:30.480
We used to have our marketing meetings and my, my marketing guy couldn't get that name. And so every time he would come to that point in the, in the weekly, I'm just like, he's gonna fuck it up. And sure as could just you needed.
Colin True
00:41:30.480 - 00:41:32.440
A super cut of every time he tried to say it.
Producer Dave
00:41:32.440 - 00:41:35.200
Yes, I like it. Oh, that's fancy.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:35.200 - 00:41:39.030
Eric, if you're listening. Love you. Love you, buddy. It was, it was awesome.
Colin True
00:41:40.470 - 00:42:06.880
You know, Helly's got to be the leader now given the whole recent, you know, them being in the news with the, with the new ownership group spinning off, you know, the. Was it Scott Baxter coming over, you know, from VF all that whole thing. And it just seems like there's a lot of Jews coming up behind Helly Hansen.
I mean they were. And they were probably already, you know, a leader to begin with. Right. But it feels like they are the up and coming brand in this category.
And Fjall Raven, obviously, maybe the one that has gotten the most attention more broadly speaking.
Producer Dave
00:42:06.880 - 00:42:09.920
Even the bag brand, the tiny bag brand.
Colin True
00:42:09.920 - 00:42:13.280
That's a fair point. A lot of people probably. You're right, Dave. Probably a lot of people would look.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:13.280 - 00:42:15.880
At them as those little backpacks, the Kenkonkin.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:15.880 - 00:42:17.360
The true.
Colin True
00:42:17.440 - 00:42:20.840
But they're mostly known for their PFAS solutions. Probably in the last few years here.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:20.840 - 00:42:36.170
Yeah. For me there's a lot of great brands on this list. I would say first of all, Heli is great. Although they're kind of core outdoor.
Euro is how I would sort of put them in a little bit.
Colin True
00:42:36.170 - 00:42:40.410
Yeah. We could put them over on core outdoor and it wouldn't. Nobody would really notice. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:40.570 - 00:42:40.970
Right.
Colin True
00:42:41.530 - 00:42:42.010
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:43.050 - 00:42:57.130
And again, if I'm going to go international, I want somebody that's bringing something different to the table. So that's why like my pick would be more like a. Like a fuel Raven.
Just because it's one of those brands where you cover up the logo and you still know what it is. Right.
Colin True
00:42:57.130 - 00:42:57.890
You know what it is.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:57.890 - 00:43:13.190
You know, It's. It's the G1000, you know, fabric or it's the crazy looking hiking pants or whatever it is. Right. It's just some cool stuff.
It's also my personal favorite brand. But that's just, that's just me.
Colin True
00:43:14.310 - 00:43:15.270
Feel how Raven is.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:15.510 - 00:43:16.590
Yeah. 100%.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:16.590 - 00:43:17.510
You like knee pads?
Colin True
00:43:17.510 - 00:43:20.870
Like, overall, that's your number one. That's your number one draft choice right there.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:20.950 - 00:43:28.230
Yeah. That is, like, what I like to wear, and that's probably a knock against them, but, yes, I love.
Producer Dave
00:43:28.630 - 00:43:29.990
They've jumped the shark, clearly.
Colin True
00:43:29.990 - 00:43:33.270
Everybody, get rid of your feelings.
Producer Dave
00:43:33.420 - 00:43:36.060
It just speaks to Owen's collection of little backpacks.
Colin True
00:43:36.300 - 00:43:40.780
He did not know until the pants go great with the Hoka speed loafers is why.
Producer Dave
00:43:40.940 - 00:43:42.940
Wow. Yes, they do.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:43.420 - 00:45:13.670
See, I. I was thinking feel Raven. I do think.
I think they do a good job, too, of pulling in a different customer base when you think about those packs, because they are pretty ubiquitous outside of, you know, it's not. Nobody's taking that up Mount Whitney. But I, you know, I'm going to throw a little. Little pitch in here for Mont Bell. I really.
That is one of my favorite brands. I own probably 10 pieces by them, and that says a lot because they're not the easiest thing to find here in the States.
You have to often buy it online. But I think they do a great job of innovating lightweight backpacking apparel so well, and I think of it as backpacking.
But you could, you know, take it up in the mountains, take it out wherever you want to go. And you want lighter things that are very good at protecting you from weather and wind and all sorts of things. Like, I have wind mitts from them.
I have my. My favorite wind shirt of all time. The thing that got me believing in wind shirt is the tacky and parka by Mont Bell. I have two of their puffies.
They do a great job in the puffies, but. And they. They used to do these ultralight umbrellas, and they have a whole side thing.
I mean, great Japanese company and Japanese in general, there's some really cool Japanese brands doing ultralight gear.
But I'd say this one has the biggest application to people here and probably the most name recognition of any of those other outside of, like, Snow Peak, which obviously doesn't do apparel. But yeah, my. My pitch is for Mont Bel.
I feel like that's a brand that makes some really interesting pieces that you won't find, like you won't find in other brands.
Colin True
00:45:14.790 - 00:45:24.710
Kind of just. They just kind of keep on keeping on. They've been around for a minute, but they just keep cranking out great products, right? They do.
Every once in a while, I kind of forget about them. Then I'll see something. I'm like, oh, man, that's awesome. I forgot about those guys, you know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:24.710 - 00:45:26.630
And their stuff lasts and they have great customer service.
Producer Dave
00:45:27.510 - 00:45:35.910
I'm a little surprised, Shantae, that you haven't tried the Snow Peak apparel. They do make titanium infused tops that are $1,700.
Shawnté Salabert
00:45:36.790 - 00:45:39.590
It's a paycheck. I've been putting it away in my piggy bank.
Producer Dave
00:45:39.590 - 00:45:43.430
There you go. Right, right. It's only available in extra small though.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:43.430 - 00:46:10.690
Funny that two brands on this actually have a very similar origin story.
Both Rab and Mont Bell started really making down sleeping bags and that's how they got into the space and then expanded from there into or other areas. Yeah, Mont Bell, definitely Japan. Cool. I'm still a little bit bitter though that they. They killed all of their.
Their wholesale business and their own only direct now because we did a lovely.
Colin True
00:46:10.690 - 00:46:12.050
Oh, that kind of eliminates them from.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:12.050 - 00:46:17.970
We had a lovely business with m. With Mont Bell and then. Yeah, they said, no, we're only going direct. Yeah.
Colin True
00:46:18.130 - 00:46:57.880
Well, it's funny you bring up Rab because I wanted to mention them because I. Every pair, every piece I've had from Rab. The fit is impeccable. It performs great. It lasts forever. They make really good stuff.
But I think they're almost in that. They're kind of in that helicamp of like. Like it's not unusual to find them here in the States and outdoor. They're kind of.
You could move them over to core outdoor and it would probably fit okay. I think Houdini deserves a mention just for obviously all the good work they do on the sustainability front.
I'm wondering if Neurona isn't the answer because they're sort of very much. They're trying to get into the States. They do a lot of amazing stuff.
They have a lot of great products, but they are still very much in that kind of the other side of the ocean in terms of where they're mostly distributed. What do you guys think about Norona?
Producer Dave
00:46:59.070 - 00:47:00.910
Colin, you stole my thunder there with both those.
Colin True
00:47:00.910 - 00:47:03.670
Sorry, buddy. You mean delete that? I just beep it all out.
Producer Dave
00:47:03.670 - 00:48:00.730
No, no, that's. That, that's great. I. Two reasons, I think Houdini, for obvious reasons, because that's what I'm wearing at the moment.
I think from a company trying to do the right thing in going the extra mile to do so, or kilometer as we would say. They absolutely are the brand that does that.
And I think their whole concept of better basics and the quality and again the richness of their colors, I just, I think that they're just going along and not worrying about growing too fast. I think their moment is coming for sure in terms of just what they're offering. And the Nerona. Yeah, it is. It's the.
Well, you could say it's the European arc' teric. Right. They kind of come at it from a similar perspective. But you're right though. It's just the core outdoor and style, very modern.
But I think too that they have a place.
Colin True
00:48:01.050 - 00:48:06.970
Fioraben's kind of in that Heli and Rab camp though, too, aren't they? And they're pretty widely distributed here. You can kind of find them.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:07.450 - 00:48:21.290
Yeah, but, but, but again, the Heli and Rab, I think from a, from a look and a. An assortment perspective, it's like everything, it's fleece, it's puppies, it's. It's shells, et cetera.
But Fjall has its own vibe, its own materials, its own thing.
Colin True
00:48:21.370 - 00:48:21.930
That's fair.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:22.490 - 00:48:55.990
Nerona, you know, I may never forgive for being it back country exclusive for all the years, so. But no, I'm k kidding. We did sell on our own at Moose Jaw and Great brand, great people as well. And you know, really, really quality product.
A little pricey, as is Houdini and a lot of the European brands actually, you know, that come over here. There is a bit of an affordability jump that you have to make if you want to enter some of these brands.
But yeah, definitely some really quality products.
Colin True
00:48:57.250 - 00:49:00.130
Should we. Any comments on Mammut? Does Mammut deserve a mention?
Eoin Comerford
00:49:00.610 - 00:49:46.910
Well, I like Mammut. I mean, again, a great product and an authentic brand, really.
And that's one of the things about a lot of these European brands is they're very centered in that whole alpine experience. Right. And so it's truly, you know, tested in the harshest of environments.
Mammut really coming from a deep climbing background to where, you know, you've got a lot of that product.
One of the real pioneers in the whole soft shelf side of things over the years, I think, unfortunately, in this market, their quasi exclusivity with REI for a while I think really hurt them. And they're coming back now. I think it's a brand to watch, but it probably wouldn't be my pick out of this list.
Colin True
00:49:47.150 - 00:49:56.560
So should we advance Fjallraven, Nerona, Houdini and Mont Bell? Or is Mont Bell making the final cut given the. The wholesale situation?
Producer Dave
00:49:56.880 - 00:49:58.160
They don't sell wholesale.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:58.560 - 00:50:01.640
How can they trying to give Shantae a winner now?
Producer Dave
00:50:01.640 - 00:50:03.840
You know who does sell wholesale is Montclair.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:06.720 - 00:50:08.080
They really. They really don't.
Colin True
00:50:09.840 - 00:50:10.880
Oh, they don't okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:10.880 - 00:50:26.480
Yeah. Montclair, they really don't. Unless you're. Unless you're, you know, a high end Barney's or something. Yeah, a regular.
Most regular outdoor stores can't touch Montclair and they want to be 100% D2C by the way. That's their goal.
Colin True
00:50:27.200 - 00:50:46.000
I think you make a good point though about just the quality though. Owen. Like Mie, I had my first couple pieces from mountain equipment that I've ever tried this past winter. Amazing jackets. I mean just there's.
You can't go wrong with a lot of these. So. But I just, you know, we got to make some cuts here. So. Is it Fjallraven Houdini Narona? Are that the three we take to the finals?
That makes sense about those.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:46.240 - 00:50:48.560
That's a great threesome that there with.
Producer Dave
00:50:48.560 - 00:50:50.720
With Jack Wolfskin lurking in the background.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:51.280 - 00:50:54.480
We didn't mention Jack Wolf skin. Oh, that's right, because they're. They left the.
Colin True
00:50:54.480 - 00:50:59.800
They left the US still on a boat somewhere trying to get back to. To Germany.
Producer Dave
00:50:59.800 - 00:51:00.200
That's right.
Colin True
00:51:00.200 - 00:51:18.730
Howling before we get to the. The moment everyone.
Everyone's been waiting for, we want to tell you that today's episode is presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking. And we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the local long walk. Including the following.
Number one, peeing behind a tree. That equals freedom.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:18.890 - 00:51:19.850
I love that one.
Colin True
00:51:20.410 - 00:51:21.290
It's a good one, right?
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:21.290 - 00:51:21.690
Yeah.
Colin True
00:51:22.890 - 00:51:24.690
Maybe behind a rock. Maybe not behind anything.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:24.690 - 00:51:28.090
Maybe just anywhere. Yeah, just free peeing if you will.
Colin True
00:51:28.410 - 00:51:29.930
That could be a new Olympic event.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:30.570 - 00:51:31.770
Put that on a T shirt.
Producer Dave
00:51:31.770 - 00:51:33.250
It's a cool new brand.
Colin True
00:51:33.250 - 00:51:38.730
Number two. Rocks make better gym equipment than a peloton. Carry them around, get strong.
Producer Dave
00:51:38.880 - 00:51:39.200
Wrong.
Colin True
00:51:39.520 - 00:51:42.960
Number three, because no one can hear you wheeze out there.
Shawnté Salabert
00:51:43.840 - 00:51:50.560
I'm pretty sure they can hear me wheeze when I'm going uphill. I think anybody at 100 mile radius can hear me. Heavy breathing.
Colin True
00:51:50.800 - 00:52:34.000
You can hear Shantae at number four. Hiking means the Bridger boot collection.
The Bridger Ridge is here to help you smooth out the rough trails in front of you with enhanced stability and protection. The Bridger Ridge is Oboz's first boot with Gore Tex. So bring on the smiles and the miles in the Bridger Ridge.
And if you are in or headed to Great Falls, Montana, pop in to Big Horn outdoor specialist to pick up your own pair of Oboz Bridger ridges. And this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by oboz of Bozeman, Montana, certified B Corp.
6 million tree planter and inhabitant of the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking.
Do you want to ask Dave your question?
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:34.000 - 00:52:36.720
Shantae, do I have a question for Dave?
Colin True
00:52:37.040 - 00:52:38.200
You were wondering about the Cupid.
Shawnté Salabert
00:52:38.200 - 00:52:45.200
Oh, Dave, you wrote that line. What does it mean? What does that mean? It's the most confusing thing Colin says every week, and that's saying a lot.
Colin True
00:52:46.480 - 00:52:50.000
Wow, he kind of took us both down in that one statement.
Producer Dave
00:52:50.160 - 00:52:59.610
They're promoting love hiking. The Cupid is what brings you together. Okay, so they're the Cupid. They bring you together with hiking.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:59.690 - 00:53:08.410
Makes perfect sense. Don't question Dave's copy. He's the man who came up with smiles on my toes. I mean, come on.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:08.890 - 00:53:11.290
I mean, that's right.
Producer Dave
00:53:11.690 - 00:53:12.450
Oh, my God.
Colin True
00:53:12.450 - 00:53:13.930
The rock fight where we speak our truth.
Producer Dave
00:53:15.210 - 00:53:17.930
Does that not make sense? Am I using Cupid wrong?
Colin True
00:53:17.930 - 00:53:21.730
I don't think so. She had a question, so I said, dave's a guy to talk to.
Producer Dave
00:53:21.730 - 00:53:23.850
No, that's. But I'm genuinely.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:26.010 - 00:53:29.610
I guess you're us with it. Is that the.
Colin True
00:53:30.250 - 00:53:31.770
Shantae's breaking in real time.
Producer Dave
00:53:31.770 - 00:53:43.130
Look, she's chaotic. It's a little. To be fair, I wasn't putting so much emphasis on the archery part. Right. You're right. Right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:43.130 - 00:53:44.250
All right. Thank you, Dave.
Colin True
00:53:45.210 - 00:53:50.170
All right, final category, and then we actually have to figure out our list. Number five on the list.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:50.170 - 00:53:52.770
Let's go. Hiking during bow hunting season, I think is what we're trying to say.
Producer Dave
00:53:53.000 - 00:53:56.520
Say Ah. See, that's solid advice.
Colin True
00:53:58.680 - 00:53:59.520
No, Bad idea.
Shawnté Salabert
00:53:59.520 - 00:54:00.280
Unless it's for love.
Colin True
00:54:00.760 - 00:54:01.960
I thought this was for love.
Producer Dave
00:54:04.360 - 00:54:07.320
Sounds like a Lifetime movie. Or. Or.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:07.320 - 00:54:08.440
Impaled for Love.
Colin True
00:54:08.440 - 00:54:09.680
Cupid of the Outdoors.
Producer Dave
00:54:09.680 - 00:54:11.840
Impaled for Love. Impaled for Love.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:11.840 - 00:54:13.480
Or maybe Impaled by love.
Producer Dave
00:54:13.960 - 00:54:15.480
Yeah, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:15.800 - 00:54:18.760
Just let me write the next Oppo's ad. I've got some ideas. Now.
Producer Dave
00:54:21.610 - 00:54:22.010
Let's go.
Eoin Comerford
00:54:22.010 - 00:54:23.010
Yeah, let's. Come on.
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:23.010 - 00:54:25.210
I'm ready for my time in the. In the spot. Okay.
Producer Dave
00:54:26.090 - 00:54:27.610
Love that. Let's go. You bet.
Colin True
00:54:27.610 - 00:54:31.130
All right, who's ready for the Battle Royale of the core outdoor.
Eoin Comerford
00:54:31.370 - 00:54:33.370
Wow. There's going to be some blood spilled here.
Colin True
00:54:33.370 - 00:54:43.410
I actually have an opinion, so here's the list. Patagonia, the North Face. Cool. Columbia Black Diamond Equipment. Do I say it? Solomon?
Shawnté Salabert
00:54:43.410 - 00:54:44.650
No, you crossed it off.
Colin True
00:54:44.650 - 00:55:44.560
Can't. Sorry. I crossed it. Mark Terex. Outdoor Research. Mountain Hardware. Marmot Steel. Royal Robins. Icebreaker, Northwest Alpine and Ibex. Okay.
So, I mean, there's so many on this list that it's just, you know, you just flip a coin. I don't know. Like, they're not that. It's like, how do you be original, frankly, with some of the folks on this list?
But I, I, my heart is leaning towards Hardware. Just maybe that's a bit of the prisoner of the moment.
But I like that they were basically a zombie and are now kind of back and doing really cool things. I like what they're doing over there. Troy from Hardware is going to be joining us on stage at Switchback.
We got a chance to talk to the director of renovation Dave and I did while we were up at the Functional Fabric Fair. I like that they're owned by Columbia and they're still doing some cool stuff. They have reach, they have the legacy.
And it's not Patagonia or the North Face. No offense, Patagonia or North Face, but that's sort of like, I think that's a bit of my criteria here. But I mean, I'll just start there.
Start with Hardware.
Shawnté Salabert
00:55:44.560 - 00:56:45.240
I love them. I was, that was going to be my pick. Yeah, I, Their dynamic ankle pants, whatever the hell they're called, are some of the only pants.
In addition, I'd say Prana is the other company that makes pants that fit my butt to waist ratio, which is a problem. Like, a lot of manufacturers still don't seem to know how to make pants for people with different butt to waist ratios.
So kudos to Mountain Hardware because they do it well.
And they are one of my favorite brands that I can, can wear out into the public and then wear out into the backcountry and, and feel like they're fully functional but still kind of look nice. No, I'm, I'm a full Mountain Hardware, Stan, from a sales perspective. I also, I love Patagonia. I love some of their initiatives.
Their organic regenerative cotton initiative is great. I love to see them continue to grow that. And yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm always.
Patagonia is my number one, you know, But Mountain Hardware is real high on that list too. If I was going to go for a.
Colin True
00:56:45.240 - 00:57:00.320
Not Patagonia here, I mean, you get out their research. I mean, great. They're doing great things, actually. And after this goes up, I actually, and it's, we have already recorded.
It's going to go up after this. I've done an interview with the head of technical apparel at Marmot. Marmot. Guys, coming back from the.
Shawnté Salabert
00:57:00.640 - 00:57:02.240
Maybe we'll see sip one of the.
Colin True
00:57:02.240 - 00:57:07.040
Best rain jackets and over distributed rain jackets. But, you know, it's best.
Shawnté Salabert
00:57:08.080 - 00:57:13.620
But okay, I'm saying let's affordable, functional for hype.
Colin True
00:57:13.620 - 00:57:19.180
Yeah, but you know, there's a lot going on in this list. I mean, Owen, where's your heart lying right now?
Eoin Comerford
00:57:19.340 - 00:58:06.110
Well, if it's my heart, it's with Arc' Teryx. You know, I just. That would be my outerwear choice to go with my Fjallraven would be Arc' teryx.
That's my go to jacket in the winter and has been for. It's the same jacket. I mean, for a guy who gets a lot of jackets over the years, it's the same jacket for the last decade.
This stuff just looks great, fits great and is built to last. So yeah, that would be from the heart. You know, from a. Now they're going.
They're leaning much more D to C, which I think is a challenge for our sort of fictional store thing. But they still, I think, want to be in high end specialty retail. I would say, you know, Patagonia.
Shawnté Salabert
00:58:06.180 - 00:58:06.500
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:58:07.940 - 00:58:10.980
They're so core to the core, quite frankly, that it's hard.
Colin True
00:58:10.980 - 00:58:13.980
It's an easy choice. No one's going to battered eye if you put them on here.
Eoin Comerford
00:58:13.980 - 00:58:52.740
It's hard not to talk Patagonia. I think if I have a knock against Patagonia, it's just the lack of newness and innovation. It's just.
It's the same old hits right over and over and over and over again. So that would be my knock in Patagonia. The North Face is another one where it's like, it's hard.
Nobody's going to beat you up if you say the North Face. I think my challenge there is just the breadth of the distribution. I mean, it's kind of everywhere now.
It's certainly expected when you walk into an outdoor store, but it's also not that exciting when somebody finds it because it's kind of everywhere. Yeah.
Colin True
00:58:52.740 - 00:58:54.580
Dave, you want to make the case for Columbia.
Eoin Comerford
00:58:57.060 - 00:58:57.860
He's a local.
Producer Dave
00:58:59.540 - 00:59:23.270
Yeah, right, I am. And they spelled it properly, so that's exciting.
No, I feel like though, this is one of those where half of these you're kind of irresponsible for not including on a list. Right. I mean, it's just this is the foundation of the outdoor industry as it's come up, and it's hard to go away from any of these.
They all have a really, really strong taste.
Shawnté Salabert
00:59:23.270 - 00:59:28.580
You know what I realized, Dave? I'm looking as you're Saying that we never read out this list. Do you want to rattle them off for the listener?
Rock Fight Radio!
00:59:29.610 - 00:59:30.250
Oh, right.
Producer Dave
00:59:30.250 - 00:59:33.850
You're right. We're just assuming Patagonia, North Face.
Colin True
00:59:34.330 - 00:59:36.010
Oh, did he, man?
Eoin Comerford
00:59:36.010 - 00:59:37.450
Yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:59:38.170 - 00:59:39.050
Keep up, guys.
Producer Dave
00:59:39.530 - 00:59:41.570
Sorry, it was clearly not.
Colin True
00:59:41.570 - 00:59:45.050
I'm not editing this out either. I'm leaving. This is the episode.
Eoin Comerford
00:59:47.290 - 00:59:51.330
I think Shanti, was neither one of you checking your email while you were introducing this section?
Producer Dave
00:59:51.330 - 01:00:06.250
Well, look, I think. Look at the we. You have to set your front right. You do have to say, though, look like you have a brand like Northwest Alpine.
How did they not get on the emerging list? How did they sneak over here onto the core? They are certainly a core outdoor brand, but it's an emerging brand.
Eoin Comerford
01:00:06.570 - 01:00:08.730
That's probably where they could have been. Yeah.
Producer Dave
01:00:08.730 - 01:00:18.330
And then we have Ibex and Icebreaker. Yes, those are core outdoor brands, but are they a North Face, Patagonia, Black.
Eoin Comerford
01:00:18.410 - 01:00:23.290
Diamond, and Icebreaker's actually New Zealand, so they probably could have been on the international list.
Colin True
01:00:23.370 - 01:00:24.410
They could have gone there, too.
Eoin Comerford
01:00:24.570 - 01:00:30.060
Yeah, yeah. No takers for steo?
Producer Dave
01:00:30.140 - 01:00:30.860
They are.
Colin True
01:00:33.340 - 01:00:52.850
No, no, no. Actually, they're the only one on this list that I'm like, it's all right.
I mean, honestly, like, it's actually kind of fun to look at this list and think about what's happening with most of these brands. I mean, there's a handful of, like, they just kind of keep on keeping on a little bit is their. Is their mentality. But, you know, we.
We talk a lot about. A lot about these brands. But, like, arc' Teryx is really interesting. Like you said, Owen, like, they're sort of.
Eoin Comerford
01:00:53.000 - 01:00:53.160
Of.
Colin True
01:00:53.160 - 01:01:47.890
You know, we made the comment on the pod about how they have almost extracted themselves from core outdoor while still remaining incredibly core outdoor. Right. They have this. This. This positioning that they've achieved. You know what I said about hardware.
I think outdoor research is just always oozing with authenticity. You know, if Marmot's on its way back, like, that's interesting. You know, we've met with the folks at Royal Robbins.
They've advertised here on the show. They have a really interesting take on that brand to sort of try and get it back to a place where they would like to like it to be. Northwest Alpine.
Like, we know those guys are big into the domestic manufacturing and trying to be very much a core outdoor brand. Like, they're not interested in the lifestyle category.
You know, there's just a lot of really interesting stories at each of these that it makes it more difficult. And that's probably why I just kind of land on hardware. I kind of feel like that is maybe checks the most boxes.
But, yeah, I wouldn't be really angry if a lot of these brands ended up kind of coming out of this category. Dave, did you offer a hard opinion?
Producer Dave
01:01:47.890 - 01:01:53.890
I didn't, I didn't. And I was even like, going back to cool, you know. Is that a core outdoor brand?
Colin True
01:01:53.890 - 01:02:00.570
Owen and I were talking about this the other day. I mean, do. We could put them on lifestyle, but also they're kind of core as well.
Producer Dave
01:02:01.530 - 01:02:21.340
Are they core by association? Like, you just expect them in this kind, but they don't make core light. You know, it's so lifestyle and they've been doing it a long time.
But there's certainly no arcteric or nor. I mean, there's just not the. The. In what is it? The activity, if you will. The. This. The athletic sports side of this.
Eoin Comerford
01:02:21.340 - 01:02:29.100
I think that's fair. I mean, if you. If you look at their category, their outerwear is definitely lifestyle. I mean, they have articulated knees. Dave. So, you know.
Colin True
01:02:29.260 - 01:02:29.620
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
01:02:29.620 - 01:02:29.900
Hey.
Colin True
01:02:29.900 - 01:02:31.019
And an umlaunt.
Producer Dave
01:02:31.260 - 01:02:33.780
So I do too. It's gotten worse over the last.
Shawnté Salabert
01:02:33.780 - 01:02:35.340
They're de articulating, but.
Producer Dave
01:02:36.060 - 01:02:38.500
Right, right. Trying to.
Shawnté Salabert
01:02:38.500 - 01:02:39.500
That's why you need the pants.
Producer Dave
01:02:39.500 - 01:02:41.880
Let's see a specialist. Right, right.
Eoin Comerford
01:02:43.160 - 01:03:07.120
The other thing I would say here is that Black diamond and Outdoor Researcher are on this list, which. And I think they believe they deserve to be part of the conversation, but they've also. They're previous winners in other categories.
So they're already in our store. We already have the brand in our fictional store. So. Not that we don't love you guys, but you're already on. You've already won. Let somebody else win.
Shawnté Salabert
01:03:07.120 - 01:03:10.190
Yeah, no, no, I'm doubling down on Mountain Hardware. That's my pick.
Colin True
01:03:10.820 - 01:03:16.180
Well, so are we just going to carry arc' teryx in hardware? Are we just going to call it for hardware? I mean, what do you guys think?
Eoin Comerford
01:03:16.180 - 01:03:19.700
Let's just move this thing along. Ashante's apparently got things to do, so.
Producer Dave
01:03:22.580 - 01:03:23.060
Wow.
Shawnté Salabert
01:03:24.340 - 01:03:25.700
I'm feeling the love today.
Colin True
01:03:26.020 - 01:03:29.860
All right, I'm throwing in hardware. Let's just add hardware to the list until somebody else.
Shawnté Salabert
01:03:30.340 - 01:03:31.700
I just needed some sort of win.
Eoin Comerford
01:03:32.180 - 01:03:32.820
There we go.
Shawnté Salabert
01:03:33.140 - 01:03:34.180
Let me have one thing.
Colin True
01:03:35.220 - 01:04:04.080
Okay, let's go back. We got to make some decisions, and we're not going to belabor it. Right. So we have emerging and small brands. We had talked about Livesyn, Nara.
No, we hadn't talked about Libson. Sorry. We talk about Nara, Seni, Wild, Rye, Ridge, Marino, Jolly. Should we talk About Liveson. We haven't talked about Liveson.
You should talk about Does Lipson is Liveson. Kind of all the things we said about the small emerging brands. But it's kind of like. Like I mentioned about hardware.
It's kind of checks the most boxes, actually. And we. And Andrew's sitting here like, you know, crying because we haven't mentioned his brand once on the pod.
Eoin Comerford
01:04:04.080 - 01:04:09.410
Men, men's and women's, you know, tops, bottoms, technical.
Colin True
01:04:09.410 - 01:04:11.610
Great sustainability story, you know, like durability.
Eoin Comerford
01:04:12.330 - 01:04:28.730
Yeah. Again, I can't really. But. But yeah, I. Because I'm an advisor to this brand.
But this is the only outdoor brand where at the board meetings we actually kick off with sustainability. Like that's the first hour.
Shawnté Salabert
01:04:29.770 - 01:04:32.090
We're getting a peek into how sausage is made.
Eoin Comerford
01:04:32.170 - 01:04:33.150
Yeah. And it's crazy.
Producer Dave
01:04:33.700 - 01:04:38.060
It's a good peek Question, are board members wearing Patagonia?
Shawnté Salabert
01:04:38.060 - 01:04:39.060
Are they wearing the vest?
Colin True
01:04:39.220 - 01:04:44.980
That's a good question. When you show up to a board meeting of a small brand like that, are you allowed to wear the giant competitors?
Eoin Comerford
01:04:45.060 - 01:04:51.900
No, no. I show up in my. I'm like head to toe. Lives in when I show up. Although actually, no, that's not true. I had a. I had a pras.
Colin True
01:04:51.900 - 01:04:52.540
You're in the overalls.
Eoin Comerford
01:04:52.540 - 01:04:56.500
I had a prana shirt and lives in pants when we met this week. So.
Colin True
01:04:56.660 - 01:05:03.770
Well, so if we include Libsyn, the list is Libs and narrative. Senshi, Wild, Rye, Ridge, Marino and Jolly Gear. What do we feel like?
Shawnté Salabert
01:05:03.770 - 01:05:11.210
Well, you could combine Livesyn because they also have a NARA collab. They've got the overalls and I think. Do they do pants too?
Colin True
01:05:11.290 - 01:05:11.650
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
01:05:11.650 - 01:05:13.010
Nice. Nicely done, Sean.
Colin True
01:05:13.010 - 01:05:19.210
So we can have a smuggle. We're going to have our first ever smuggle on one of these lists. Lives NARA in one spot.
Shawnté Salabert
01:05:19.450 - 01:05:20.090
Might be.
Colin True
01:05:20.090 - 01:05:22.250
What do you think, Dave? Do you approve of that? Is that in the rules?
Producer Dave
01:05:22.650 - 01:05:31.860
I don't approve. I think would have something to say about that, but that's all.
Colin True
01:05:31.940 - 01:05:34.740
Are we all in agreement that lives in is our choice though out of this category?
Producer Dave
01:05:35.060 - 01:05:41.140
You can't. It's hard. You can't vote against it, and some of it you just can't vote against. Right. There's not a case against writing it.
Colin True
01:05:41.140 - 01:05:53.010
And when we read the final list, we'll have one more chance for an objection. All right. Snow, Burton, Obermeyer, 686 Picture, Flylo, True Gear, Rhythm and Katon. Make the call. Owen, which one is.
Eoin Comerford
01:05:53.160 - 01:06:03.640
Is it. I think it's got to be a picture in terms of just brand Heat Right now. And just an interesting brand that's doing it the right way.
I think that it's got to be Picture Shantae.
Shawnté Salabert
01:06:03.640 - 01:06:05.240
Yeah, I agree. I think that's a great choice.
Producer Dave
01:06:06.440 - 01:06:07.560
Yeah, I do too.
Colin True
01:06:08.120 - 01:06:21.170
All right, here's the category that probably took up a good chunk of the pod lifestyle athleisure. We highlighted Vuari, Prana, Cotopaxi, Howler Brothers and Outdoor Voices. For all that talk, those are the ones we highlighted.
Shantae, what do you think?
Shawnté Salabert
01:06:21.330 - 01:06:22.690
Oh, why pick me first?
Colin True
01:06:23.570 - 01:06:24.490
Because I want to hear you say.
Eoin Comerford
01:06:24.490 - 01:06:28.970
Outdoor Voices, which doesn't sell to wholesale.
Shawnté Salabert
01:06:28.970 - 01:06:31.490
Cotopaxi. Cotopaxi.
Colin True
01:06:31.650 - 01:06:32.210
Dave.
Producer Dave
01:06:32.770 - 01:06:34.290
Dovetail workwear.
Shawnté Salabert
01:06:34.370 - 01:06:39.970
Dovetail, that's it. Also because they're made in Portland. Is it? Are you just going pure Portland here again?
Colin True
01:06:40.130 - 01:06:41.810
Wow. Left field pick. I like it.
Producer Dave
01:06:42.370 - 01:06:43.730
No, why would I do it?
Shawnté Salabert
01:06:43.730 - 01:06:46.710
Dovetails are great, though. I love, I love, love my dovetails.
Producer Dave
01:06:48.300 - 01:07:24.920
Truly innovative in that in terms of finding their position. It's a niche, of course, but it's something that would be unique and I think would cause some kind of conversation.
But if it's not Dovetail, then I have to go with Kotap, Paxi too. From a just a crossing the core to lifestyle, younger to older. Like, you definitely see them starting to be multi generational.
I want to root for them. I want them to do well in that. But if Viori is the choice, there's like you said, that's there's a lot of financial reasons that would say I.
Colin True
01:07:24.920 - 01:07:30.120
Like including Cot epoxy because it'll kick off a firestorm about are they an outdoor brand or not? So Owen, what do you think?
Producer Dave
01:07:30.280 - 01:07:32.160
How could they want emails?
Eoin Comerford
01:07:32.160 - 01:07:54.450
I mean, I think you could. You can argue whether Viori is an outdoor brand 100%, but yeah, no, Kodapaxi is an outdoor.
Is an outdoor brand versus lifestyle, a core outdoor brand. Okay. Yes. I think that's a fair conversation. But they make packages. Yeah. For me, you know, from.
If it was like gun to my head, you're spending your money and it's your story, it would be Viori. I mean, I think it would be.
Colin True
01:07:54.450 - 01:07:55.490
For all of us, honestly.
Eoin Comerford
01:07:55.570 - 01:08:01.810
But in terms of a brand that I want to support and do well for the outdoor industry, it would be Codapaxi.
Colin True
01:08:02.290 - 01:08:11.940
Okay. Cotopaxi and our European choice international choice, Fjallraven, Norona and Houdini were the three finalists. Dave.
Producer Dave
01:08:11.940 - 01:08:12.900
Oh, we're gonna let Owen.
Colin True
01:08:12.900 - 01:08:13.420
Oh, Owen.
Eoin Comerford
01:08:13.420 - 01:08:13.820
Oh, really?
Producer Dave
01:08:13.820 - 01:08:14.420
Oh, wow.
Eoin Comerford
01:08:14.580 - 01:08:22.820
Well, I mean, you know, I love Fjallraven, so I'm not gonna go against my favorite brand, but that's for sure.
Colin True
01:08:22.820 - 01:08:26.060
I think you can't either. You have. Can you have Kotaboxi and Fjallraven on the same list? I don't know.
Shawnté Salabert
01:08:26.060 - 01:08:31.220
Yes, you can. Yes, you can. I'm also going for Fjallraven, so I think Houdini.
Producer Dave
01:08:31.380 - 01:08:33.300
Oh, interesting. Wow.
Eoin Comerford
01:08:33.380 - 01:08:33.820
Okay.
Colin True
01:08:33.820 - 01:08:34.580
What do you think, Dave?
Producer Dave
01:08:35.620 - 01:08:41.830
Well, if we. If I go for Houdini, we could have some kind of like, Viking octagon kind of contest here.
Shawnté Salabert
01:08:42.459 - 01:08:43.579
Does that involve horns?
Producer Dave
01:08:43.739 - 01:08:44.659
Would sell tickets.
Shawnté Salabert
01:08:44.659 - 01:08:46.219
I just want a helmet with horns. That's.
Colin True
01:08:46.699 - 01:08:47.419
Who doesn't.
Producer Dave
01:08:47.899 - 01:08:53.579
The crowd has horns. Are you kidding me? Like, yeah, like, that's great.
Colin True
01:08:53.579 - 01:09:07.960
Well, if we include Fjall Raven, the list looks like this is not.
We're not calling this final, but right now it is Liveson, Picture Organic Code Epoxy, Fjall Raven, Mountain Hardware as the top five outdoor brands of the moment. How do we feel about that list?
Producer Dave
01:09:09.240 - 01:09:18.440
That's not a bad list. When you say of the moment. Everybody here is just kind of hitting stride.
Colin True
01:09:18.440 - 01:09:21.160
Think of what your. That's a pretty cool looking store, actually.
Shawnté Salabert
01:09:21.160 - 01:09:21.960
That store.
Eoin Comerford
01:09:22.120 - 01:09:23.400
I would open that store.
Colin True
01:09:24.200 - 01:09:30.120
Yeah. Okay, I'll co sign this. We all on board? Yes. Oh, which one? Which one? Shot day. That was.
Shawnté Salabert
01:09:30.600 - 01:09:34.040
That was a yes. That was a weird yes, but yes, I'm on board.
Colin True
01:09:34.600 - 01:09:36.440
I thought that was a. I didn't get my pick.
Shawnté Salabert
01:09:36.520 - 01:09:39.730
No, I'm actually satisfied today, which is shocking to me. Me.
Colin True
01:09:40.130 - 01:09:59.930
All right, so the final list. The 2025 top five outdoor apparel brands. Liveson, Picture, Organic, COD, Epoxy, Fjall Raven, and Mountain Hardware.
And if we want to have a little smuggle some. We get a little bit of NARA in with Livson as well. Because of the co. You keep trying to do that. I want to give some love to the she fly.
The she fly is cool.
Eoin Comerford
01:09:59.930 - 01:10:02.810
It's now the go. We're more inclusive. Colin, it's the go.
Colin True
01:10:02.810 - 01:10:08.720
Sorry, sorry. I forgot. I always. I keep doing that. I've done that many times on the pods. Sorry, Gigi. Sorry, sorry. It's go vlog.
Eoin Comerford
01:10:08.720 - 01:10:10.080
I feel comfortable. Trust me.
Colin True
01:10:10.160 - 01:10:18.720
I know. She scares me. Okay, that's it. I think that's the show. We did it. We did all. Now when do we roll this back? September. We start again with footwear.
Is that what.
Eoin Comerford
01:10:18.720 - 01:10:21.600
Oh, my God. I don't have the. I don't have the energy. No.
Colin True
01:10:22.960 - 01:11:06.260
To summer off and start it all over again. All right, we're gonna wrap it up there.
Come back on Wednesday when Doug Schnitzbahn will be joining me to run through some stories that come out of the outdoor adventure community. Be sure to check out OPEC Container Doug's podcast here on the Rock Fight Podcast Network.
You can listen to it on whatever platform you're using right now. New episodes come out on Tuesday. We want your emails, especially about this episode.
Send them to myrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight LLC and our producer today. Producer David Karstad. Art direction provided by Sarah. Thank God that's over Gensert. And for Shantae Salibair and Owen Comerford, I'm Colin True.
Thank you for listening and thank God he's here and puts an end to this episode. It's Chris d' Meigs with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.
Shawnté Salabert
01:11:06.340 - 01:11:07.380
We did it.
Chris DeMakes
01:11:07.460 - 01:12:03.160
Rock Fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock fight Where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight.
Rock fight Fight. Welcome to the rock life Rock light Rock fight. Rock light Rock light Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Producer Dave
01:12:05.879 - 01:12:08.440
Rock fight.
