The Tariff Rollbacks Explained & A Public Lands Call To Action
- colin7931
- May 13
- 21 min read
Today on the show we have updates on two topics that have dominated the outdoor industry discourse over the past few months.
First Tania Lown-Hecht from the Outdoor Alliance sits down with Colin to talk about the congressional midnight vote that happened last week that is threatening thousands of acres of public land in Nevada & Utah. (01:19)
(We need the Rock Fight Army to show up and make their voices heard! Click here to send the message that selling this land would be the wrong move. Every voice is needed right now no matter where you live but for those of you in the following states, your lawmakers are especially important on this issue: Montana, Colorado, Utah, Arkansas, Nevada, Idaho, New Mexico.)
Then outdoor industry insider and consigliere to The Rock Fight, Eoin "The Captain" Comerford, drops in to react to the latest update to our tariff situation. On Monday news broke that the US lowering its tariff on goods from China from 145% to 30% and China lowering its levy on US goods from 125% to 10%.
That may sound like great news, but as Eoin points out during our conversation there is more to unpack. (13:11)
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:00:34.640
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True, and this is a bonus reaction episode of the Rock Fight.
We have two quick items for you today.
First, I'm joined by Tanya Loun Hecht from the Outdoor alliance for an update on the action we need the outdoor community to take for the current threat to our public lands. And then Owen Comerford stops by to break down the news that came out yesterday about a pause in the Trump administration's tariffs for China.
So stick around. You're not going to want to miss either of those updates.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:34.960 - 00:00:38.800
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:42.480 - 00:01:26.810
Hey, everyone, before we keep going here, I need to tell you about our teammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, if you run an outdoor, an endurance or an active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR and digital marketing, belay partner or drinking buddy than Darby. They can help your business reach new heights, and they might just keep you from falling on your ass.
Since we started working with Darby, more and more people. And this is an important point now. Guys, I want you to hear me on this.
More and more people have reached out to us here at the Rock Fight because of that messaging. Look, guys, I'm dead serious. If they can help us, they can help anybody. Hit them up@darbycommunications.com do it today.
All right, we are here with Tania Lown-Hecht. Got it right. Who is the VP of communications for the Outdoor Alliance. Welcome to the show, Tania.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:01:27.050 - 00:01:28.250
Thank you for having me.
Colin True
00:01:28.250 - 00:01:59.030
Oh, you're quite welcome. Thank you for being here and on such short notice, really, because last Friday we had the CEO of the Outdoor Alliance, Adam Kramer, on and off air.
We talked about how we can regularly update the listeners of the Rock Fight with call to actions and information for everything that's happening as it pertains to our public lands. So we kind of decided, hey, let's do this. We could do this weekly. We could do this a couple times a week depending on what's going on.
I mean, hopefully we get to the point where maybe we don't have to do it at all because, like, gosh, we're swimming in money and protections and we don't have to worry about it. But for right now, that is not the case.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:01:59.190 - 00:02:04.070
The dream is not to have to do this, and I really hope we're not doing this multiple times a week.
Colin True
00:02:04.070 - 00:02:06.870
Hopefully, Tanya and I are going to aim to never speak again.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:02:09.910 - 00:02:10.830
Yeah, so what.
Colin True
00:02:10.830 - 00:02:20.880
What is. So it's the week of May 12th. What's. I mean, I know a lot happened last week, so I don't know if that's where you're going to start.
But, like, what is the latest when it comes to our outdoor playgrounds for the week of May 12, 2025?
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:02:21.520 - 00:05:55.960
Yes. So the week of May 12, the update is really from last week, but it's going to definitely go into this week.
So basically what happened last week is Republicans released their big. They have this big mega bill that they're going to pass through this process called reconciliation, which Adam probably talked about.
It has all sorts of stuff in it. So it has a bunch of public land stuff, as well as lots of other things like Medicaid and Medicare and military.
It's a big spending bill that the House Natural Resources Committee released their portion of the bill on public lands. It was terrible. Our VP of policy is like, this is the worst bill that we've ever seen that has a shot of passing really bad stuff across the board.
Just like giveaways to oil and gas companies and getting nepa, the National Environmental Protection act, cutting out the public process. Lots of really bad stuff that we don't like.
The only good side of it was that there weren't any public land sales in the big bill, and there were a bunch of threats that there were going to be public land sales in the bill. Like, when Republicans first started talking about it, they were talking about including public land sales as a way to offset spending and tax cuts.
And we did a ton of advocacy on it. So people were writing hundreds of thousands of letters to their members of Congress.
And we were pretty pleased because we thought, hey, this advocacy works. There's no big land sales in there. That was a big threat. Everything else is pretty much garbage.
But at least we kept this out, so we're happy about that. And then they do a markup, which is like the whole committee goes through it, reads through the bill, and they vote on it.
It's a little bit performative. It mostly gets passed on party lines. Republicans control the committee.
But in the middle of the night, literally 11:12, two Republicans introduce an amendment to sell off a bunch of public land. So it's Amadi and Malloy, they're from Nevada and Utah, introduced this amendment to sell off a bunch of public land.
It gets passed through the committee. So one Republican, Jeff heard from Colorado, voted against it, but ultimately, at the end, he voted for the whole package.
And so coming out of that, the next morning, you know, we all wake up to this news and we're like, oh, shit. You know, this gets introduced in the middle of the night. So there's no warning. There's no public process.
There's no way we can weigh in the way we're going to weigh in on the other stuff that we've had the text for. And we're scrambling to try to figure out, well, like, what's the land that they're suggesting? How much is it? Why are they doing it?
Initially, we thought it was just maybe 11,000 acres. It wasn't totally clear. That's a small parcel that's not really that big. Outdoor lines. We're not opposed to public land sales at all.
But there's a process for doing that, right? And mostly the sale of public lands is supposed to be used for conservation. So maybe you're like, trading. You're trying to.
Like, there's a bunch of patchwork areas, you're trying to sell off some and make whole parcels elsewhere, or you're trying to buy up land elsewhere. So there's a process, and we were going to maybe mostly object to the process part of it.
Like, you're supposed to have a public process if you're selling off public lands, you're supposed to direct this to conservation efforts. But as it turns out, when we look closer, there's probably, like, you know, almost half a million acres in Nevada.
I think it's just 11,000 acres in Utah. But it's, like, right around St. George and Southern Utah, where there's actually a ton of recreation. There's a bunch of trails.
There's some, like, bike packing trails, climbing.
Colin True
00:05:57.860 - 00:05:59.540
Like the best part of Utah.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:06:00.100 - 00:06:00.980
Yeah, pretty much.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:01.220 - 00:06:01.700
Yeah.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:06:04.260 - 00:06:08.340
So it's a lot. It's bad. It's. It's quite bad. It's worse than we thought.
Colin True
00:06:09.620 - 00:06:12.020
All right, so what do we. What do we do? What do we do?
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:06:12.020 - 00:07:36.850
Well, now. Now we have to make a ton of noise. So you have to just write your members of Congress, write your lawmakers.
If you have a lawmaker who's on the House Natural Resources Committee, that's extra important. But really, any of your lawmakers matter here.
And in terms of what the next steps are, like, this package is, they're trying to pass it by the end of the month. That's their target. It may or may not happen. And ordinarily we'd look to the Senate to kind of have some temperance on these bad ideas.
But Mike Lee, who's the chair of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, quite likes the idea of public land sales. So he's not really going to be the voice of reason here. But I think the real stopping point is, number one, we have to shore up all the Democrats.
And there was one Democrat who voted to move the package throughout of the Natural Resources Committee in the House. So shore up all the Democrats. And then there are a growing number of Republicans that are vocally opposed to public land sales.
So Zinke from Montana is the number one. He has said he won't vote for the entire reconciliation package if there's land sales in there. So that's really, that's a big win, right?
It's a huge win because it means they're going to try to pull it out if they want to pass the package, and that's what we need. So we've had some other Republicans make some noise to that effect and would like to shore them up. So, like, Montana folks are really important.
Mike Simpson, something Idaho, maybe some Utah folks. So, you know, reach out to your members of Congress.
Colin True
00:07:37.330 - 00:07:49.000
So can you give us any of the listeners? We'll put it in the show notes, a link to reach out and maybe even a list of the, of the, of the folks you would, if you're in their districts.
Like, these are the most. This is the priority. And we could actually list that in the show notes.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:07:49.790 - 00:08:05.790
Yeah, we can do that. We have an action alert. So I don't know if you've ever used this to take action with us, but it's like, really simple. We build out.
You just put in your address and it will pull up all your members of Congress and then there's a template letter and you can just edit it, tweak it a little bit, and then it sends to, like, all your members of Congress.
Colin True
00:08:06.030 - 00:08:22.340
Yeah, I said it to Adam. That's like one of the best things you guys do because it's just. Because it is a little. It sounds so simple.
And if you're in the world, like, you are, it probably is saying, like, yeah, just call them. You're like, what's up? You know, and it's like some, a lot of people, though, it's like, what do I. Wait, what do I do?
How do I do I need to write a letter? Like, what's. And then you're like, click, click, click, Done. And it happens.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:08:23.060 - 00:08:55.410
So, yes, we've made the bar pretty low for participation, but if you feel inspired, make a phone call. That's great. And like, all you have to say, I mean, I call my rep all the time and I just say, hey, I know this is coming up. I'm your constituent.
I'm not really pleased about it. Don't sell off any public lands. And you don't need to know a lot because some of them, your representatives might not know a lot about this.
There's a lot of issues out there. There's a lot of things that lawmakers work on. And so just to hear, hey, I heard that this passed out of the House committee. I really don't like it.
Please make sure it comes out of this bill.
Colin True
00:08:55.970 - 00:09:39.490
And I think when we talk a lot about, like, kind of the chaos that this administration is like, sowing.
I was actually listening to a different podcast on a non outdoor related, and they were kind of lamenting kind of the same themes that we talk a lot about here on the Rock Fight or other outdoor podcasts about the administration, but on entirely different topics. And you can tell, like, this is like that person, their interests, maybe they're not that outdoorsy.
They're not really thinking about public lands, but they're thinking about, hey, by the way, did you know this is happening on like X, Y and Z? And it's like, just because we are kind of like, oh, my God, public lands. And I mean, tariffs affects everybody.
But like the, the, the public landscape that is very specific to this audience. So, hey, listen, you know, if you don't speak up, something else might actually overshadow it.
So this is the opportunity for this audience to make a difference.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:09:40.240 - 00:09:59.200
That's exactly right. Yeah.
It is sort of amazing to think about, like, we get so locked in on our issue and to think about all of our lawmakers are also dealing with, like immigration and military spending and health and human services and education and I mean, a whole host of other issues that they all have to understand. And so they're not gonna be expert.
Colin True
00:09:59.200 - 00:10:11.880
If you're in a district where they're like, detaining people for no good reason, you might be like, yeah, it's fine. They could sell some public lands.
I got other things I'm worried about right now, like, which isn't okay, but it's just also, like, you can understand this is a, It's a difficult situation across the board.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:10:12.280 - 00:10:16.560
Yes. And it's kind of the job of constituents to keep bringing the important issues to the top of the.
Colin True
00:10:16.560 - 00:10:17.720
This is your job, right?
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:10:17.960 - 00:10:50.700
Yeah. I mean, when I first started this job, I wasn't, I didn't know as much about advocacy.
And I remember asking Adam and our policy director at that point, like, if we've already written them five times, why do I have to keep writing them. Like, don't they already know that this matters?
And, and Louis and Adam both said they have like the attention span of fleas because they have to work on so many different things. Yeah, they have tons of constituents, a lot of stakeholders. They have donors, they have members of their party and committees.
They have a lot of relationships. They can't keep track of it all. So the noisier that people are, the bigger difference that makes.
Colin True
00:10:51.180 - 00:10:59.460
So should we start a segment where you make a prediction of the next terrible thing? We're going to, we're going to talk about when you come back on the show, like a week from now or whatever, you know, like, oh, I'd be.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:10:59.460 - 00:11:01.060
So rich if I could predict the.
Colin True
00:11:01.060 - 00:11:26.370
Next thing that was happening. Well, hopefully this is it for, for a little bit.
We don't, we don't have to hear from Tanya again, but for right now, we are going to bring Tanya back on regularly. This is the. But this is the call to action for this specific instance. Reach out to your representatives.
We do not want them selling off these public lands. This is not. All right, links are in the show notes and we'll be bringing the outdoor alliance back on as we need to, to, to continue the fight.
Continue to fight the good fight.
Tania Lown-Hecht
00:11:26.610 - 00:11:31.810
Thank you so much for having me and for, yeah, encouraging people to take action makes a big difference.
Colin True
00:11:31.940 - 00:11:59.070
Thanks, Tanya. Appreciate it. All right, we'll be right back with the Rock Fight's consigliere, the outdoor industry insider, Captain Owen Comerford.
You're listening to Rock Fight Radio. Hey, ladies, germs and groms, it's DJCT and you're listening to Rock Fight Radio.
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Colin True
00:13:09.650 - 00:13:21.570
And now back to the show. All right, so we have a quick and unexpected check in with Captain Cumberford as on Monday, captain of the adventure racing team.
You have so many captain titles now. I kind of forgot about the adventure racing team, too.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:21.860 - 00:13:23.220
Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.
Colin True
00:13:24.340 - 00:13:55.120
On Monday, there was an update to the whole tariff situation with the US lowering its tariff on goods from China from 145% to 30% and China lowering its levy on US goods from 125% to 10%. Let's first, let's take a look at the numbers. Owen.
When this all started, you know, one of the critical components was how the new tariffs were placed on top of existing tariffs. That's how we got to such exorbitant numbers. Right.
So while on paper it looks great going from 145% to 30%, but that's still an additional 30%, isn't it?
Eoin Comerford
00:13:55.280 - 00:15:01.450
That is correct, yes.
So I think the way that they got to the 30% was by taking the base 10% tariffs that basically everybody got on the 2nd of April and then adding those on top of the two rounds of 10% additional tariffs that had been introduced in the month before. So that gets you to 30%, but that 30% is on top of all the prior tariffs that were in place.
So the section 232 and 301 tariffs that were in place in the first Trump administration that were seven and a half to 25%. And those of course are on top of the base MFN or HS code type regular tariffs that you pay from any country.
So altogether, like if you still, if you think of, if you take our rain jacket example, okay, so 28% HS code tariff plus 25%. Section 301 tariff plus 30%, we'll call them the 2025 tariffs gets you to 83% total tariff on a rain jacket imported from China.
Colin True
00:15:02.730 - 00:15:06.890
Okay, so it was 53% and now it's 83%, basically.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:07.050 - 00:15:07.890
Yeah, exactly.
Colin True
00:15:07.890 - 00:15:18.150
Yeah.
Okay, should the Trump administration come out this Christmas with like a little orphan anti decoder ring for how to figure out what your tariff is going to be? I mean, ridiculous.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:18.630 - 00:16:06.140
It's crazy. And there's a lot of confusion out there just on LinkedIn today in terms of exactly this question. And it is indeed additional.
So I think while some people were like, oh, thank God, 30%, that seems almost reasonable. No, it's not. It's still huge. Actually, I was looking back at when the 25% tariffs came out or the 7.5% were increased to 25%.
At the time, people were losing their minds over that. Right.
And so, you know, you look at it and actually a good friend of the pod, Kent Ebersole, the president of the OIA Outdoor Industry association, said that they were an existential threat to the industry at the time.
Colin True
00:16:06.700 - 00:16:07.420
25%.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:07.420 - 00:17:28.070
These are the 25% tariffs, right? Exactly. So now you're adding 30% on top of the existential 25% tariff.
So, yeah, I mean, I think there is this thought process and that this is the insane thing about what the administration has done here where it just sort of resets people's expectations and they go, oh, you know, oh, 30%, that's totally reasonable. No, it's not. It's still a huge number. And I think what you're going to see here is really the 145%.
And we ran through the numbers the other week, really were it's basically a trade embargo. Nobody could make 145% work, right.
And still be in business or make any, any kind of money with, you know, you, you'd either have to massively increase price to the consumer and in which case demand goes away, or just basically lose a shit ton of money. So the 145 was really basically a trade embargo. So what was going to happen, there is just shortages.
That was what we were staring because people were not importing anything under these tariffs. So now that you're down to this 30% level, 30% is painful, but doable. And so what you'll see is you will see product come in.
In fact, you'll see everyone rush to get the product in, but it's still going to be painful. And so now we're going to swap shortages for basically price increases because companies will have to increase price to make up for the tariff.
Colin True
00:17:28.550 - 00:17:57.730
But it's still murky though, right? Because this is not a permanent resolution. This is what they're calling a 90 day pause. Right. Trump really loves these 90 day windows.
Apparently all the experts say it's months for a to negotiate a deal, 90 days are all we need. But that's just worse. I mean, it's like, it's such a. Like if you're a brand and you're.
Even if you're okay with a 30% tariff on your goods, you still have to contend with that uncertainty. Like, what should you do? Like, you got this window. We don't know what's going to happen at the end of the 90 days.
It might be fixed next week, it might be go back to 145.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:58.290 - 00:19:38.540
Right. Depending on how things go and if somebody, you know, gets pissed off about something.
Yeah, I would say though, I think the 30% number at least put it puts a number out there and it's something that people can at least wrap their brains around in the short term. And I think what it's going to do is, as I say, avert the shortages in the short term for fall.
So we will actually have fall in terms of the outdoor industry. And then I think long term, though it does point to the fact that there will be, this may be the best case scenario, 30%. Right.
Unless there's some major. Because I think the first two 10 percenters this year were supposedly linked to the fentanyl crisis. Who knows? Right. And so maybe those go away.
But even to get to the 10% level, you're almost at sort of an overall trade agreement thing.
And do I see China getting to a level where it's more favorable than, you know, Vietnam or some other countries that don't have all this other sort of piled up around it as these two global superpowers kind of try to, you know, create dominance in the world? I really don't see that scenario.
So yeah, I think long term it's just whether, whether this is a 90 day thing or it's a forever thing, it's still a large number and the ultimate decision for most brands is going to be the same. That is how the f do I get out of China.
Colin True
00:19:39.900 - 00:19:52.300
Right. I mean, so it's a stay execution for that. So like if you what I was going to ask you, what would you do?
Is it just like, you know, that's part of like there's the short term and the long term and like maybe this allows you to kind of have your business operate while you're still planning for the future.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:52.780 - 00:20:00.500
Exactly. And so what I would do is I certainly wouldn't hold out and hope for it to get lower suddenly from here.
Colin True
00:20:00.500 - 00:20:00.900
Yeah, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:00.900 - 00:22:14.720
I mean it might, you can, you can't tell with the current admin, but I certainly wouldn't bank on that. And so I would look to get that product in here as soon as possible.
I went through and on LinkedIn today, I reran all the math around this just to see how each of the different scenarios play out. Like, okay, what happens if we just absorb the whole hit as a brand? Right.
And that's like, okay, so the retail price stays the same, whatever, we just take the hit. We lose 19% gross margin dollars in that scenario. Right.
If we just pass it through to the consum we take a hit in our margins, in our dealer margins, the prices go up by 9% to the consumer and then you run down through all the numbers.
But I think at the end of the day, where it'll probably land is similar to where we landed after the 25% tariffs when it came into place, which is consumer retail prices went up by a marginal level like 10%, I think is as much as a consumer before you really, really start to kill demand. And even 10% might be tough in this current environment. But I don't see brands looking to add 20%.
I think they'll say, hey, 10% is the most we can do it. Maybe it's 5%, but there'll be some push there.
And then I think dealer margins have to stay the same because retailers, they're kind of struggling themselves too. They're not going to be willing to take a lower margin. They just aren't.
And so then really what you're left with is, okay, how much of the pain will will the factory share. And that was all the same process back in 2019, 2018, when these first towers came out. I think we'll see the same thing again, quite frankly.
So figure out how to live with it. Cut every possible cost you can, unfortunately, from payroll, from marketing, from everywhere else.
Try to survive in the short term and then figure out how to get out of China in the long term. But get everything here as soon as you can, because you never know. I mean, the 90 days might become nine days. We don't know.
Just because they say it's 90 days doesn't mean that that is actually what's going to happen.
Colin True
00:22:15.760 - 00:22:18.400
Feel bad for the port of Long beach, folks?
Eoin Comerford
00:22:19.680 - 00:22:20.400
Well, totally.
Colin True
00:22:20.960 - 00:22:22.400
They're getting a lot of phone calls today.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:23.440 - 00:22:55.900
Well, yeah. And listening to actually the head of the.
I think it was the longshoremen, but they were basically saying that their who kind of rely on overtime, that their overtime had been slashed of late because nothing is showing up. So what you're going to see is the opposite right now, suddenly. Well, no, actually, not for right now. Four weeks from now. Right, right.
Colin True
00:22:56.300 - 00:22:56.860
Not today.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:56.940 - 00:24:08.580
Right, yes. So all of that stuff is there's a whole bunch of stuff just backed up in China right now sitting in containers ready to go onto ships.
And so now all of these global shipping companies are like, oh, hell, okay, what do we do now? Okay. Because it's not like they've got a bunch of ships just lined up in the harbor out over in China just waiting to get filled.
No, no, These ships are all over the world trying to do other things and move other stuff to other places.
So now you've got to reroute all of these ships, get them to China, get all the stuff loaded on the ships, get the ships steaming across the Pacific to Long beach and other ports. So probably we won't see anything for, I don't know, at least four weeks, but probably more like five or six weeks. Then the avalanche starts. Right.
And then in 90 days, then it's like a race to get stuff in before the 90 day window, which is early August. And so it'll be interesting to see what does it do to shipping rates because shipping rates had been plummeting over the last 30 days.
Now it's like you could totally see the opposite. Right?
Colin True
00:24:08.580 - 00:24:09.020
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:09.180 - 00:24:32.830
I mean, so containers, I think Containers peaked at $20,000 a container during the craziness of whenever that was. 21, 22. Are we going to get back there?
Gosh, I hope not because we had normalized back then to where we were kind of Pre Covid like $4,000 a container. And I think like last month it was well below that, but you could certainly see it go up to 6,8000.
Colin True
00:24:33.310 - 00:24:40.030
All right, well, we'll keep our eye on this as it develops. Owen, always, thank you so much for your insight and for breaking it down for us.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:40.189 - 00:24:41.390
Sure, absolutely.
Colin True
00:24:42.670 - 00:25:14.960
All right, that's the show for today.
Thanks to Tanya and Owen for coming on to keep the Rock Fight audience up to speed on the topics that matter most to the outdoor industry and community.
We'll be back tomorrow to talk outdoor adventure headlines with Shantae Salibair and then again on Friday with the Outdoor Town draft, which also has Shantae and Doug Schnitzbahn. The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight llc. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. Here to take us out. He's here.
Even for emergency bonus episodes, it's Krista Makes with the Rock Fight fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:25:14.960 - 00:26:10.790
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight.
Welcome to the rock flag where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews.
Andy is the aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock Flight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Welcome to the rock flight. Rock fight. Rock flight.