Is Ethical Gear Real? Is Death Valley Alive? Is a Quilt Warm Enough? Gear Abby Has The Answers!
- colin7931
- 2 days ago
- 40 min read
In the latest episode of Gear Abby, host Shawnté Salabert and producer Colin True dive headfirst into some of the biggest questions lurking beneath modern outdoor culture: how ethical gear really is, whether extreme landscapes like Death Valley are misunderstood, and if quilts can truly replace traditional sleeping bags. Along the way, the episode delivers practical advice, reality checks, and the kind of gear nerdery listeners have come to expect from Gear Abby!
Question 1: Is Ethical Gear Actually a Thing?
Listener Min-Jun kicks things off with a deceptively simple question: are there any truly ethical or sustainable outdoor brands?
Shawnté breaks this down by reframing the conversation away from vague marketing language and toward tangible indicators of responsibility. Rather than chasing buzzwords, she encourages listeners to look at how often brands release product, whether materials are thoughtfully sourced, how transparent companies are about their supply chains, and if sustainability is embedded into design and not just slapped onto hangtags.
The takeaway: “ethical” isn’t binary. It’s about progress, transparency, and intention. Consumers should feel empowered to ask better questions instead of expecting perfect answers.
Question 2: Is Death Valley Really “Dead”?
Next up, a listener floats a question that quickly turns philosophical: is Death Valley truly lifeless, or are we just bad at recognizing life that doesn’t look familiar?
Shawnté unpacks how extreme environments often get misunderstood because their rhythms don’t match human expectations. Life in places like Death Valley exists on different timelines, in subtler forms, and with incredible resilience. The conversation turns into a broader meditation on respecting landscapes for what they are and not what we want them to be.
Question 3: Are Quilts Warm Enough?
A listener wondering whether quilts can truly replace sleeping bags opens the door to a detailed breakdown of how quilts actually work.
Shawnté explains why insulation underneath your body doesn’t do much, how pad attachment systems eliminate drafts, and why pad R-value matters more than many people realize. She also shares real-world experience using a quilt across seasons and conditions, emphasizing that warmth is a system and not just a single piece of gear.
The short answer: yes, quilts can be warm enough — if you understand how to use them correctly.
Final Segment: What’s In My Pack?
The episode closes with the return of a fan-favorite segment: What’s In My Pack?
This time, Shawnté makes the case for one of the most polarizing pieces of trail gear out there: the sun umbrella.
She explains why umbrellas aren’t about fashion, but about managing heat, conserving energy, and protecting your body over long miles especially in exposed environments. Beyond shade, umbrellas can reduce sweat loss, help regulate temperature, and make brutal conditions far more manageable.
Colin remains skeptical (and concerned about aesthetics), but Shawnté stands firm: looking uncool is a small price to pay for staying alive and functional in the sun.
The Takeaway
This episode of Gear Abby reminds listeners that outdoor decisions are rarely black and white. Ethical gear exists on a spectrum. Harsh landscapes are more alive than they appear. Quilts work when paired with knowledge. And sometimes the smartest gear choice is the one that makes you look a little ridiculous.
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Episode Transcript:
Shawnté Salabert
00:00:03.200 - 00:01:18.650
You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks.
She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.
Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abbey, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch.
I'm outdoor educator and writer Shantae Salibair, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all. Yes, I do. Because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. Alrighty. Alrighty Roo. Alrighty Roo. That's right.
Here we are, righty rooing. This is how it works. You're gonna send questions to Dear gear abby, gmail.com. i'm going to answer a couple each week here on the show.
I'm going to also say weird things like Alrighty Roo, because that's how I operate.
And as always, joining me today is my partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and a guy who actually needs no introduction, mostly because I couldn't think of something pithy to say today. Colin. True.
Colin True
00:01:19.130 - 00:01:31.290
You know, Shantay, I have.
I got to step into parent corner for a second, even though it's not really outdoor adventure y But I needed to share because my oldest daughter recently moved into an apartment in Los Angeles. In your hood?
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:31.290 - 00:01:31.810
Oh, my gosh.
Colin True
00:01:31.810 - 00:01:33.030
She's living in Van Eyes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:33.510 - 00:01:34.550
Oh, that's not my hood.
Colin True
00:01:34.550 - 00:01:36.750
But yeah, well, it's, you know, opposite.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:36.750 - 00:01:37.510
Side of the world.
Colin True
00:01:37.590 - 00:01:43.190
Listen, let's just to the most of the world, you're both in Los Angeles and that's what matters for the purposes of this story.
Shawnté Salabert
00:01:43.350 - 00:01:45.030
Okay. All right then, fine.
Colin True
00:01:45.670 - 00:02:02.160
And you know, she's there for a couple days.
She's got a new college semester starting up soon and she's starting a new job, but she had a couple days where she wasn't feeling well, so she's hanging at home. And so yesterday, my wife and I, we have a text register, the three of us without our other kids on it. And she texts. In she goes, my car got towed.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:02.560 - 00:02:18.880
No, no. Have you seen the street signs, though?
In la, it is a running joke because there will be a street sign that's like no parking from 2 to 4pm on the first full moon of the month, but then also no parking between 3 and 4 if your middle name is Marie. Like, that is how they work here.
Colin True
00:02:19.040 - 00:02:34.720
I believe it. I think most. Most cities have some sort of convoluted way that basically it's like if you don't have a permit, basically just don't park here.
It's kind of like the takeaway. And I think she and her, you know. You know, probably in her young brain was like, it'll be fine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:35.280 - 00:02:39.120
Oh, bless you, child. You've learned your first lesson of Los Angeles living.
Colin True
00:02:39.200 - 00:02:55.560
She did. She did. So I'm like, all right, well, that's good. You know, this is the funny thing is my wife had I. I read it before my wife did.
I burst out laughing. And then I called my wife. I'm like, did you see her text message? She's like, no. I'm like, sure. Her car got towed.
And then she burst out last laughing so late. But I thought of you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:55.560 - 00:02:56.000
Not at all.
Colin True
00:02:56.000 - 00:02:57.920
Los Angeles centric. And it was funny.
Shawnté Salabert
00:02:58.300 - 00:03:01.340
You know, we do like to shoehorn a California into every episode.
Colin True
00:03:01.340 - 00:03:02.380
I think that's a new bit.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:03.740 - 00:03:06.460
Hey, are you ready to shoehorn California? I am.
Colin True
00:03:06.780 - 00:03:09.740
It's not. Wasn't Perrin Corner. That was California Corner.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:09.980 - 00:03:14.460
California Corner. Yeah. You have to say these things because my voice won't do the thing your voice does.
Colin True
00:03:14.460 - 00:03:16.140
I'm not in California Corner.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:17.020 - 00:03:21.500
California. No. See, I just sound like step into a Slim Jim every time I try to do it.
Colin True
00:03:21.980 - 00:03:25.180
Well, you do dress like Randy Macho Man Savage. So don't tell.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:25.180 - 00:03:26.300
Don't tell people. That's a secret.
Colin True
00:03:26.300 - 00:03:28.220
That's why this will never be a video podcast.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:28.730 - 00:03:42.810
That's why it'll only be a video podcast if we do an only fans. And then you can see I've got the red and the yellow. I basically look like if ketchup and mustard were a person.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, just Google Randy Macho Man Savage and you'll understand.
Colin True
00:03:43.450 - 00:03:49.770
I would love to do a video podcast and just never address that you're dressed that way. Like, just do we never talk about it? This is the way you're dressed.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:50.250 - 00:03:54.630
It's my thing. Everyone's got it. Like, listen, Steve Jobs had a uniform. Why can't I? Right?
Colin True
00:03:54.710 - 00:03:55.430
I'm with me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:03:55.430 - 00:03:59.430
I don't need to wear, like, plaids and khakis. I don't. That's not how I operate.
Colin True
00:03:59.510 - 00:04:05.190
Start going to trade shows dressed like WWE wrestlers. But not a very. Like, don't ever tell people why.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:05.350 - 00:04:20.390
Yeah, I want. I want trade show fame. That is what I'm here for. I think you would get. Yes, that's all I want in this world, man. I. I may have.
You know, I used to watch a lot of wwf. Or was it. Was it WWE back in the day?
Colin True
00:04:20.390 - 00:04:26.970
No, it was f. But then the wwf, the World Wildlife Federation, sued them, and so they changed it to wwe.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:27.770 - 00:04:35.850
It was wild. I mean, that was back in the day as Scary Sherry and Hulk Hogan and, you know, there was a lot of them, a lot of fake, aggressive people.
Colin True
00:04:35.850 - 00:04:36.730
It's lovely.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:37.770 - 00:04:40.370
Well, speaking of lovely, you know what's lovely, Colin?
Colin True
00:04:40.370 - 00:04:40.970
What's that?
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:41.290 - 00:04:44.890
Making a podcast with you. So let's get into it. Oh, you're.
Colin True
00:04:44.890 - 00:04:45.370
Wow.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:45.450 - 00:04:52.650
You're. The entire acoustic wall of Collins Booth just tried to smother him like the podcast.
Colin True
00:04:53.370 - 00:04:55.210
So you're doing this again. Get out of me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:04:55.210 - 00:05:06.630
Again. Every single week. It's like you're. You're recording. Colin has a full recording booth, by the way.
It's like your recording booth just wants you to do other things. It's like, yeah, we're over this. Yeah.
Colin True
00:05:06.630 - 00:05:09.870
It's like we have rated the quality of this show, and you're wasting your time, sir.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:09.870 - 00:05:19.750
Yeah, stop. Don't waste any more air. I, however, am going to supersede the acoustic walls of your booth and say, let's get started. Pop a question at me, buddy.
Colin True
00:05:19.910 - 00:05:21.350
First question is a short one.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:21.590 - 00:05:22.110
Okay.
Colin True
00:05:22.110 - 00:05:36.720
Dear Gear Abby, I'm curious to hear your opinion on this. Are there truly any sustainable or ethical outdoor brands signed Minjoon? And boy, it's really hard for me to decide to jump right in on you on this.
Shawnté Salabert
00:05:36.800 - 00:07:48.110
Hold your tongue. Just hold your tongue, man. Okay, I'm going to say what I'm going to say. You're going to say something like, I agree with Gear Abby. And also.
Okay, because that's just what we do here. Yes, Gear Abby, you're not allowed to go off script. Uh, but. All right, you just. Just sit on your hands if you need to, Colin.
Or I guess sit on your mouth. I don't know. See if that's possible. But.
All right, Minjoon, that you know, the answer to your question kind of depends on how you're defining ethical and sustainable. And since you did not offer your own definitions for either in your very succinct email. And we don't mind a succinct email.
I'm just going to go by my own definitions here. And so let's start with sustainable. Colin is touching his mustache like he's got the fidgets real bad right now.
So we could go in a lot of directions with this. Mostly I Am just looking to avoid any of the greenwashing bullshit that happens. Like, oh, we are so eco friendly.
We use ambiguous sustainable practices that we won't actually tell you about. We promise. Like that is. That is the stuff that is not actually working for me. So here's what I actually want to know.
If I had a little list of questions I'm going to ask, because they ask countries I would like. I have a lot of questions to ask specific countries. But if I was asking companies, I'd say this.
Are they selling a bunch of crap that is consistently being turned over or are they really thoughtful about releasing a much more focused collection of kind of thoughtfully curated products? Are they attempting to use recycled, regenerative, sustainably sourced materials, like truly sustainably sourced?
And you know, that's a whole nother episode. Are they able to manufacture or source materials close to home that kind of reduces the carbon footprint so things aren't bopping all over the world.
Are they using more sustainable manufacturing processes, like wherever it's happening? Renewable energy at plants, building waste reduction into their practices, yada yada yada.
Is their packaging minimal and recyclable, compostable, reusable in some sort of way? And do they minimize it? And that includes shipping, packaging. Do they have a progress. The questions just keep going.
Do they have a program for repairing or recycling the items they sell? Like, what is the life cycle of their items? And on a related note, will their stuff last? Or is it sort of planned obsolescence?
That thing we talk about with electronics, like, oh, my iPhone's going to die next year because they want more money out of me.
Colin True
00:07:49.550 - 00:07:51.790
I love your shitty consumer voice, by the way.
Shawnté Salabert
00:07:53.950 - 00:07:56.390
I didn't even practice. It just came from within my soul.
Colin True
00:07:56.390 - 00:08:03.230
It just lives in there. Sorry. Next. It has a house next year. Katharine Hepburn, old lady voice.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:03.310 - 00:08:27.069
Oh, my God. I'll just do this whole next section in an accent. It'll come back because subconsciously it has to.
So in the meantime, I did have, by the way, as I was thinking about this line listing of questions I was going to ask these brands, I just have this vision of me sitting under one of those bare light bulbs, like Law and Order style, just grilling them. So yeah. Did you. I hope you had that vision.
Colin True
00:08:27.069 - 00:08:28.710
Oh, that's exactly what I saw in my head.
Shawnté Salabert
00:08:28.870 - 00:09:51.700
Great, thank you. Thank you. Job done. All right, so that's sustainability and we'll, we'll get in more.
But ethics, okay, Ethics are, you know, sustain like true sustainability practices are about your ethics. But I also think about A couple other things. Are people paid fairly?
Are they offered incentives and benefits at all levels of the company, not just in the C suite? Do they invest profits back into the community, into land stewardship, into making the world a better place?
Overall, Yes, I have a very high standard. And are they transparent about all of their practices?
Can you go to their website and see some sort of report, a part of the website that isn't just like, oh, we're sustainable. See, there it is. We're doing such a good job. Yay us. But I want details. Give me details. Let me in.
So basically, are the founders or the C suite people just a bunch of selfish jerk wads only up to line their own pockets? That's what I want to know.
So one metric that a lot of people use to kind of decide on whether something's ethical sustainable in the, in that outdoor sphere and beyond is whether they're a B Corp. And, and for people who are not sure what that is, aren't familiar, that's just basically for profit companies that, and I quote, meet high standards of societal and environmental performance, transparency and accountability. This is going to be an accent episode and I apologize.
Colin True
00:09:51.860 - 00:09:54.820
Heavy. Yeah. This is the house next door, the third house on the block.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:55.780 - 00:09:56.420
Oh man.
Colin True
00:09:56.420 - 00:09:59.300
Snooty British sustainability person.
Shawnté Salabert
00:09:59.700 - 00:10:07.310
That's right. You must meet all of my metrics and pay me money and then I will tell you you're sustainable now. It's Katharine Hepburn.
Colin True
00:10:08.430 - 00:10:09.070
They're related.
Shawnté Salabert
00:10:09.950 - 00:10:56.730
It's true. But okay, if we're talking about B corpse, there are a lot of them actually in the outdoor sphere.
There's a couple companies right off the bat, you're going to be real shocked when I say them. Patagonia, Cotopaxi, LifeStraw, all B Corps, some of the many actually.
But I don't actually hold B Corp status, although I love it as a top metric because it's actually a really tough process. It's not just like, give these people gobs of money and they'll give you a gold star of approval.
You actually have to jump through a million different hoops to prove that you deserve this rating. And that can be really tough for smaller brands, brands that have smaller staffs that don't have the resources to spend time on this.
And the fee is a sliding scale. So smaller businesses do get a smaller fee every year. But again, it's the time to like pull together everything.
Colin True
00:10:56.970 - 00:11:09.590
There are some that do though, like lives in's a B Corp. Like OBO's is a B Corp. Like there's some brands on the smaller side that are, that are B Corps. Yeah, they can, it can be pulled up. There's retailers like Road, Rivers and Trails in Ohio. They're a B corp retailer, so.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:09.590 - 00:11:34.790
Oh yeah. I didn't know retailers ever did that. That's really cool. Yeah, yeah, go on, go on with your bad selves. Roads, roads, Rivers and also Trails.
Very important to what we do. Yeah, I love it. I mean, so.
So that is one metric that some people use in June, but also like, for me, I could just throw out a little like, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism and like leave it at that. Right.
Colin True
00:11:34.790 - 00:11:35.510
That's accurate.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:35.830 - 00:11:38.470
It's accurate. It's highly accurate. Colin was.
Colin True
00:11:39.760 - 00:11:41.920
I feel a little better. I got. I let a little steam out. Thank you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:11:41.920 - 00:14:10.880
We're waiting for that. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, listen, this whole system is not designed to be good for any of us except for the people who are profiting the most out of it. So let's be real. But I owe you a real answer. So.
Yeah, I could, I could just name check these brands like Patagonia, Cotopaxi, LifeStraw that I just mentioned. Beyond being B corpse, all of them actually, you know, do some sort of give back.
So I'd say like Patagonia, beyond all of their very vocal political advocacy, they actually give tens of millions of dollars to nonprofits and community projects of all sizes. And they hardly ever publicize this. I really don't think a lot of people know how much money they give away.
LifeStraw does amazing work around the world. Improving access to clean water, amazing health. Yeah, it's truly like they're somebody I really look up to.
Kotap Paxi has a foundation that works on improving health care, education and they call it like livelihood to red poverty, especially in areas of Latin America.
And like Colin mentioned, there are a lot of small and mid sized brands doing a really amazing job, whether they're B corps or not, of pursuing true sustainability and ethical practices. Like we've mentioned wild Rye on the podcast before, they are also a B corp and they're climate neutral certified.
They use a lot of recycled materials. They used recycled and recyclable mailers when they're shipping to consumers.
You got Skeeta who manufacture part of their collection in Vermont where they're based. They use low impact printing processes. I don't know if people realize like dyes can be a very toxic part of the process of making your clothing.
So they use a different process that is less, has, has a lower Impact Picture Organic and other B Corp. They're super transparent. Like this goes back to my transparency quest. Show me your papers.
About their ongoing quest to constantly improve their sustainability and ethics practices. And they reinvest money and their products to support the work of just a bunch of different nonprofits around the world. So I'd say Minjun.
That's kind of my long rambling answer to say that not everyone's a jerk. There's no perfect way to do it, but there are some brands really trying to do it right across the spectrum of, you know, sizes and stuff.
So I am going to, I'm going to cede the floor to Colin. He's been such a patient boy this whole time.
Colin True
00:14:11.120 - 00:14:11.680
Thank you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:14:12.560 - 00:14:13.520
What do you have to add?
Colin True
00:14:13.680 - 00:15:19.560
No, I think to the, to the. Just a quick answer to. Is there. Are there any truly sustainable brands? Answer is no. Anytime you make something, there is impact, right?
That is, that is an objective fact. Anybody who markets your point about greenwashing when you open, like if people are saying like we are saving the world by doing this, you're not.
You're making an impact in the world. Now the world can actually absorb a lot of impact. And so it's really.
Then gets to the point of the ethical part of the question, which I think Shante did a great job answering. Right. It's kind of like who's putting their money where their mouth is in the outdoor space.
You do have to watch it because the brands all know that this is touchy feely stuff that we all want to believe that they're, you know, doing the best that they possibly can. Usually if it's a founder led brand, you're going to see better results. But towards that, towards that goal.
But the, the thing that I think there has been a shift because like it was before, like I'm gonna be the next billion dollar brand was the reason why a lot of people started these brands.
Now you're starting to see the Livesons and the naras and the wild rides and the people who are starting these brands because they were really passionate but also want to do it the right way. So yeah, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:19.880 - 00:15:20.600
Hell yeah.
Colin True
00:15:20.600 - 00:15:30.150
Hell yeah. You can tell an outdoor brand is probably going to be pretty safe to buy from simply because it's going to be well made and will last a long time.
So there is a baseline there too as well.
Shawnté Salabert
00:15:30.780 - 00:16:18.200
Yeah, well, and I also think of brands like Norda who are saying things like for instance in the shoe space, like, hey, these shoes, yeah, they're more expensive but they're Going to last twice as long as, you know, in theory, as the other shoes you have. So that to me is another form of. I kind of talked about it earlier, but this idea of not having planned obsolescence. Yeah.
What, like, really thinking deeper about the life cycle of these products and how they can be extended.
So, like, in my opinion, for instance, like, I've bought things from Big Agnes over the years, and every single time I've needed something repaired, they've done it for free, and then they've sent it back to me. And things like that, I think are also things to look out for in brands. Like, who really believes?
Like, listen, I'm gonna get brand loyalty, which every brand wants, let's be real. But I'm gonna do it in a way that's not about over consumption.
Colin True
00:16:18.200 - 00:16:43.620
So, yeah, the shoes is a good. Is a good one to point out because, like, clothing and gear. I mean, I'm still using sleeping bags I got in like 2007. Right. And they're fine. Right. So.
Oh, yeah. Footwear, though, especially sneakers, like, that's the most disposable stuff that we use.
Because if you use them with any regularity, you're going to get, at best, six months out of a pair of shoes, typically, if you use them a lot. So, yeah, these. These brands that are now, like, trying to extend that life is a. It's a big deal there for sure.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:44.420 - 00:16:49.220
Thumbs up. Two thumbs up and they're both mine. Okay. Colin gave some too. Thanks.
Colin True
00:16:49.220 - 00:16:50.340
Four thumbs up.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:51.860 - 00:16:53.060
That's the new metric.
Colin True
00:16:53.300 - 00:16:54.420
Four thumbs.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:55.530 - 00:16:57.450
It'll only cost you a thousand dollars.
Colin True
00:16:57.450 - 00:16:57.970
That's it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:16:57.970 - 00:16:58.810
Every single year.
Colin True
00:16:58.810 - 00:17:03.050
You want the four thumbs? You got it. It's a thousand a thumb.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:05.050 - 00:17:23.420
Oh, man. Maybe you know what we need to start a side business, Colin. I think you're right. The four thumbs side business. It's our personal metric of like.
This is our metric of our. Is this brand assholy or not? And it'll be the fourth. Do you get four thumb certification from Colin and Shante?
Well, then you're not an asshole twice.
Colin True
00:17:23.420 - 00:17:25.220
As powerful as Siskel and Ebert.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:25.620 - 00:17:26.340
Hell yeah.
Colin True
00:17:26.580 - 00:17:27.380
Two thumbs.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:27.940 - 00:17:32.820
Wow. All right, well, let's ride this high into the next question, shall we? All of our thumbs together.
Colin True
00:17:32.980 - 00:17:56.570
Let's do it. Dear Gear Abby. Every year for the last few years, my brother and I go to at least one different national park together.
We switch off picking each year, so it's my turn. And I suggested Death Valley. He immediately shut me down and said, and I quote, why would I want to go somewhere that has death in the name.
You know, it's a ballot pushback.
Shawnté Salabert
00:17:56.570 - 00:17:57.210
Okay, fair.
Colin True
00:17:58.410 - 00:18:09.210
His argument is that he would rather go somewhere that. With plants that look, quote, more alive. Please give me some. Some talking points that I can use to convince him that it's actually really dope. There.
Thank you. Signed Marcus.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:10.090 - 00:18:11.290
I think it's Marcos.
Colin True
00:18:11.770 - 00:18:13.050
Signed Marcos.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:14.330 - 00:18:14.810
All right.
Colin True
00:18:16.010 - 00:18:17.290
Four thumbs up, Marcos.
Shawnté Salabert
00:18:17.290 - 00:18:57.350
Four thumbs up, Marcos. I am delighted. Listen, Marcus. Marcus can write in, too. Everyone can write in, okay?
I'm delighted to defend the honor of one of my favorite places, Marcos. So, first of all, I just got. We gotta address the name, okay? For your brother, for everyone listening. Let's. Let's just deal with this right now.
The park got its name before it was ever a park. 177 years ago.
That's a lot of time ago when a bunch of, like, lost gold rushers thought they would be stuck there forever and shrivel into a pile of playa dust. Apparently, once their sorry asses were rescued, one of these dudes turned around and very dramatically said, goodbye, Death Valley.
Like, that's how I'm imagining he said it.
Colin True
00:18:57.350 - 00:19:03.070
I, I, you know, I don't know if it was. If it was that maybe because his voice was so beat up from being.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:03.070 - 00:19:06.150
Out, from being in the song Goodbye, Death Valley.
Colin True
00:19:06.150 - 00:19:14.190
It's a really aptly named place. I'm sorry. Like, there's probably so many times, so many days a year, you could just show up there and die. So I have no problem.
I have no notes on the name. I think it's great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:14.670 - 00:19:21.390
Well, you know, what do you think the native people, the Timbisha Shoshone, who have lived there since the dawn of time, call it that?
Colin True
00:19:21.710 - 00:19:22.910
No, I do not think that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:22.990 - 00:19:45.370
No, they do not. They don't even like the. Okay.
They actually find it super distasteful in their name for their homeland, which they have lived on since time immemorial and which they had to fight to basically be able to keep. There is an in holding in the park that is still their land.
And the name for their homeland is actually, and I'm sorry if I screw this up, Te Pipa, which means Death Valley.
Colin True
00:19:45.370 - 00:19:45.770
Yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:19:45.770 - 00:20:03.430
It does not. It does not. Actually, the tribe's name references the redness in the rocks. And we'll get to the color in a minute.
But, like, the colorfulness of some of the rocks around there. So I think it's a really amazing name. Name. But, yeah, I also. Colin, I'm gonna disagree here.
I think the name Death Valley is actually less than appropriate.
Colin True
00:20:03.430 - 00:20:03.910
Okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:04.070 - 00:20:37.600
I think the. The place is very much alive. I have argued this in print for Outside magazine and on tv, which we'll get to in a second.
So, listen, Marcos, there's not a lot of greenery for your chlorophyll loving brother, but there is some. Okay. In fact, if you want to blow his mind, start off with a hike to Darwin Falls. Yes, there's a waterfall in Death Valley.
A lot of people are shocked by that. And there is actually a surprising amount of greenery once you get deeper into the canyon.
I actually hiked there with Baratunde Thurston on his PBS show, America Outdoors.
Colin True
00:20:37.999 - 00:20:42.960
Watch your foot there. That name drop. All right. Just hurt yourself.
Shawnté Salabert
00:20:43.120 - 00:21:17.050
Oh, my God. I took him in there. The funny thing is, as we're hiking in there, I hadn't done the hike in a while.
And so you get a little deeper in and you kind of have to scramble around a few boulders. It's nothing difficult, but I totally forgot the route. I was so tired that day. And he's just looking at me.
He's like, do you actually know where you're taking me? I do, I promise. But, yeah, listen, actually sit your brother down and just watch that whole episode. It's all about Death Valley.
And so you get the perspectives. They interview some native folks. They've got a runner who's done Badwater. They have an astrophotographer. It's super, super cool.
Colin True
00:21:17.370 - 00:21:19.370
And you'll get to see Gear Abbey in the flash.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:19.670 - 00:21:27.350
To see Keira Abbey during. We've recorded that during the height of COVID And so it was like I was at my most depressed self, so.
Colin True
00:21:27.750 - 00:21:36.390
But also, you'll see that she does indeed dress like Randy Macho Man Savage. And the whole time she was dressed like him out there with Baritone. Day was great.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:36.550 - 00:21:38.870
That's right. I was like, step into the waterfall.
Colin True
00:21:40.870 - 00:21:42.150
Step into Death Valley.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:42.710 - 00:21:56.330
He would have just sent me home in that moment. He's such a loving guy. But that might have broke him. Yeah, but listen, there's water in Death Valley.
There's actually also fish in Death Valley Valley. There's something called the pupfish. It is very tiny, and it is hella endangered.
Colin True
00:21:56.330 - 00:21:58.930
Because it lives in Death Valley, because, yeah, it's.
Shawnté Salabert
00:21:58.930 - 00:24:13.290
It's a very tough life. We're not going to lie. You actually used to be able to go. There's a boardwalk also a thing people don't think is in Death Valley.
But keep that on the back burner.
But I'd say like, let's get back to colorfulness because what the park lacks in greenery I really do think it makes up for with very colorful rocks, especially a couple different areas. Take your brother to artist palette. It is. It's like the photos you see of it are all kind of hypersaturated, but it's still really pretty in person.
It's just this series of rainbow colored painted hills kind of created by these materials that were deposited in the volcanic stuff that makes up the hills. And I'd say in that same not too far away from there. I love taking naysayers, people who do not believe in the beauty of Death Valley.
I take them and hike the Golden Canyon Gower Gulch loop. It is an amazing badlands area with all these cool jagged hills and formations. And if tack on, it's a very short side trip.
Tack on a little side trip to Red Cathedral. You'll get why the name is that was what it is when you see it. I'd also say for views like your brother's gonna be so stoked.
If you like stay, stay up for or get up for sunrise, stay around for sunset. Try to do both in the park, even if you're just there for a day. It is incredible how the desert changes colors at dawn and dusk.
Go to the sand dunes over by Mesquite Flat. Go to Zabriskie Point, which you can actually add on to that.
Gower Gulch, Golden Loop, Andante's View, which is a bit of a drive but totally worth it. And then listen, you got Badwater Basin, which is freaky in the best of ways.
Like why wouldn't you want to go to the lowest point in North America which is by the way surrounded by massive peaks There in a. There is an 11,000 foot peak in Death Valley, Telescope Peak. It's amazing. Tell your brother I said so. Yeah, I love it. I can't get enough of it.
Colin, I was about to ask you if you've been but I know you and I know how you don't like to go to our national parks here in California. So I'm going to assume your answer is no.
Colin True
00:24:13.920 - 00:24:22.000
It's true I've not been. But I will tell you hot take.
If you said gun to my head like it could only go to 1, I would choose Death Valley over Yosemite, hands down, wouldn't even be our decision.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:22.000 - 00:24:23.720
Yeah, I was not expecting that.
Colin True
00:24:23.720 - 00:24:50.940
No, I'm a desert guy. I like desert stuff, desert vistas, everything you said there. Plus, I, you know, I know it's probably going to be easier to find solitude than.
I know there's plenty of solitude in Yosemite, but it's also like a very visited park, relatively speaking. The Death Valley carries the reputation that we were kind of poking fun at earlier. And I would rather go see those things in that area now.
Do I want to pop in there? You know, like, you know, middle of July, you know, at the.
Shawnté Salabert
00:24:51.420 - 00:24:56.140
Not unless you're a tourist from another country. They're like, let's go see how hot that can be.
Colin True
00:24:56.140 - 00:25:03.180
And that's not limited to Death Valley or when I was living in Utah, people were like, hey, that's a tourist season in Moab. I'm like, dude, it's July. You don't. What are you doing?
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:03.740 - 00:25:08.940
I've been to Moab in July. It was not a pleasant experience. I saw two people being helicoptered out.
Colin True
00:25:09.020 - 00:25:23.610
Right. Once you get sort of like east of like San Diego and LA county, like, yeah, it's hot down here. Like, that's Maybe not do that. Maybe don't do that.
So, yeah, no, I'm. I'm pro. I'm pro desert. So, yeah, tell your brother to relax. There's plenty of green places in the world. Go see Death Valley.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:23.770 - 00:25:46.310
Yeah, it's amazing. You can also go. There's a lot of, like, freaky little things around there that are fun if you are an Atlas Obscura person. So my.
My bestie, Brooke and I did a road trip some years ago and we ended up at an abandoned amusement park. On the way up, we went to some really weird diners. We also ended. We took a little pit stop to the alien cat house. Colin, do you know what that is?
Colin True
00:25:47.670 - 00:25:49.270
I think I know what a cat house is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:50.550 - 00:25:55.990
It's just filled with felines. No, if you thought an alien themed brothel, you would be correct.
Colin True
00:25:55.990 - 00:25:57.190
Okay, that's what I thought.
Shawnté Salabert
00:25:58.230 - 00:26:02.710
I don't even remember why. I think Brooke saw it. It was either Atlas obscura or just some.
Colin True
00:26:02.790 - 00:26:03.910
This is in Nevada.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:04.070 - 00:26:20.080
Yeah, this. We had to go over the state line just a little bit. Yeah, we had gone to the Amargosa Opera House, which is the complete opposite experience.
It's, you know, this ballerina built this opera house in the desert and it's just in the middle of nowhere. Gorgeous little thing that she hand painted all the scenery and Then we went to the alien cat house where we.
Colin True
00:26:20.240 - 00:26:21.680
Go have a drink at the bar, basically.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:22.000 - 00:26:34.240
Well, no, we didn't even do that. They asked us if we wanted to. We were both just so weirded out. They gave us a menu and gave us a tour when we walked in.
Yeah, and she's like, do you want to see the wet room? We're like, I don't know if we do.
Colin True
00:26:34.320 - 00:26:36.240
The story had a lot of potential.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:36.910 - 00:26:39.870
It really did. But then we decided to leave quickly.
Colin True
00:26:40.190 - 00:26:41.390
Damn it. You and Brooke.
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:41.790 - 00:26:54.590
But listen, you guys, you guys could stop there on your road trip if you want. Marcos, like, it's all fair game. All right, well, as much as I would like to linger in the wet room of the alien cat house.
Colin True
00:26:54.750 - 00:26:55.590
And who wouldn't?
Shawnté Salabert
00:26:55.590 - 00:26:59.790
Who wouldn't? It just sounds so appealing. Let's do another question.
Colin True
00:26:59.950 - 00:27:31.650
All right, here we go. Dear Gear Abby, I am hiking the AT this year and I'm trying to go as light as possible. This is my first thru hike, but I've backpacked a lot before.
I just haven't always had the lightest gear.
I've switched to a lighter tent and cut weight on a few other things, and the only big decision I have left is whether I should buy a quilt instead of using my sleeping bag. I know it saves a lot of weight, but I just can't imagine that half a sleeping bag is actually going to keep me warm. Does it?
Do you think it's worth spending the money to get one? Your friend, bag boy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:33.650 - 00:27:36.650
Well, you might not be bag boy for long once you hear what I have to say.
Colin True
00:27:36.650 - 00:27:37.250
Oh boy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:37.650 - 00:27:52.770
I love this. I'm so excited for this. Okay, this is actually.
Technically this is gonna be a quick one to answer because believe it or not, a lot of people are gonna be surprised here. The underside of your sleeping bag is not doing anything at all to keep you warm. Okay. This is because of how sleeping bags work.
Colin True
00:27:52.930 - 00:27:54.450
How do sleeping bags work?
Shawnté Salabert
00:27:54.770 - 00:28:02.810
Well, let me tell you, okay? Sleeping bags do not make their own warrants warmth. Contrary to apparently popular belief, there aren't.
Colin True
00:28:02.810 - 00:28:04.370
Little beings inside the baffles.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:05.090 - 00:28:36.580
Yeah, it's not like those. Those little hand warmers that you use when you're. Yeah. Nope, nope. That's not how it works.
It's not like one of those containers you heat up the MREs in. The way a sleeping bag works is you make the heat. Okay, so sleeping bags, puffy jackets, anything.
Whether it's stuff with down or synthetic, your body heat gets trapped in the air space between those little pockets of insulation.
Whether it's feathers or, like I said, synthetic stuff, when you compress the insulation too much, such as, you know, sleeping on it, it can't do its job.
Colin True
00:28:36.660 - 00:28:38.660
So when your clothing works the same way.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:39.460 - 00:28:40.900
Yeah. It's just all.
Colin True
00:28:41.060 - 00:28:42.540
It's trapping heat. Yes, yes.
Shawnté Salabert
00:28:42.540 - 00:29:42.270
Yeah, we're all little. We're like little furnaces. And if you want to stay warm, you keep. You know, so. Yeah.
In reality, the whole underside of your sleeping bag is kind of wasted when you're laying on it. Hence the magic of the quilt, which is also lighter by design, you know, you mentioned.
Yes, it's lighter since you're doing away with the bottom part. It's not half. You're not. Quilt is not half a sleeping bag. It's more like 3/4 of a sleeping bag, I'd say.
So for those of you who are thinking this is like, are they taking grandma's quilt from the attic out on the trail? No. I mean, you can do your thing. A backpacking quilt is actually more like a deconstructed sleeping bag.
So they've usually got some sort of enclosed toe box. Some can open up all the ways you can use, like, a blanket. And many of them actually also offer a way to close it up at the neck.
So mine has a snap and then a little cinch.
And if you move around like a greased pig in your sleep, like I do, you're probably wondering, how is a half opened three quarters of a sleeping bag gonna keep me warm?
Colin True
00:29:42.430 - 00:29:45.230
Do greased pigs move around a lot? Is that a common thing?
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:45.230 - 00:29:52.270
That's my assumption. Just. I want you to marinate on that for a second, Colin. I'll do some research. If you put a greased pig on a therm. A rest, what would happen?
Colin True
00:29:52.750 - 00:29:55.610
I mean, if very still, it would probably be fine.
Shawnté Salabert
00:29:55.690 - 00:29:59.210
Even if it's still gre, it's the grease that's doing it.
Colin True
00:29:59.770 - 00:30:00.530
Are we on a hill?
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:00.530 - 00:30:08.170
Is not inherently wiggly, to my knowledge. It's the grease. The greasing of the pig. We may be on a hill. That's. I mean, the greasing of the pig.
Colin True
00:30:08.170 - 00:30:09.610
The greasing of the pig.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:09.930 - 00:30:11.250
No, I don't know what you're doing.
Colin True
00:30:11.250 - 00:30:11.850
I don't know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:30:12.650 - 00:32:13.050
Yeah. All right. Well, Colin, while you. I mean, I do like you coming up with songs because I feel like that's usually my job, so thanks to you.
And I don't know if you're technically ADHD like I am, but if you are, good job. That's what you should be using your powers for, is Making up songs. So, yeah, listen, I move around a lot when I sleep.
I am a good indicator of whether or not these things keep you warm. The trick is to make sure yours has a way to attach it to the sleeping pad, which I'm pretty sure all of them do.
I have an enlightened equipment Enigma quilt. I have had this thing for a decade. Mine has two elastic bands that kind of slip over my sleeping pad.
One is kind of up by my chest, the other one's by my hips. And. And there's two little clips on each of them, or four clips. They clip onto the sleeping quilt and you can tighten it.
So when I want it to be super warm, I just tighten it so that this. The quilt is kind of wrapped around the sides. I use it.
They don't really work well with those, like a therm, a rest Z, Like a closed cell foam pad, those foldable pads. You can. I've seen people do it, but they work really well with the inflatables. But, yeah, I could just tighten it up. Closes off any gaps.
Speaking of sleeping pads, this is another key point, is that you need to use one that's properly insulated for whatever kind of camping you're doing, so your bottom half stays warm because that is what's actually heating up the bottom half. So really, you want to look at something called R value. It sounds like a scientific term that has a standard, but it does not have a standard.
Everybody kind of comes up with their own R value and puts it on their products. They're like, My R value is 3, minus is 4.1.
Every company seems to have its own metric, but generally, if you find one that's around the 4 range, that's going to be a pretty warm sleeping bag that's good for at least three seasons, maybe four. But, yeah, that's what's going to keep you warm. Higher the R value, the warmer it is.
And if you're worried about not having a hood, if you're one of those people that likes to be ensconced like a little mummy in your bag, which I don't.
Colin True
00:32:13.050 - 00:32:13.490
That's me.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:14.200 - 00:32:21.560
That's you. See, I'm claustrophobic. I don't like feeling like I can't move around. My little grease pig body needs to be able to move. Okay.
Colin True
00:32:22.040 - 00:32:26.360
You are a prolific sweater, according to other episodes of this podcast. So it's true.
Shawnté Salabert
00:32:27.320 - 00:33:28.230
Yes. You're not wrong. Yeah, me and my sweat, we need to be able to move around freely so that I can sleep better out there. I just Use.
I personally just wear a wool beanie to bed, but they actually sell down and synthetic hoods. So companies like ZPacks and Enlightened Equipment. I know Z Pax does not 100 sure. I think Enlightened equipment does too.
But they'll send sell hoods to people who want that feeling. And you have more movement. You don't have to be stuck in the position that your mummy bag, like, straps you into.
So, yeah, listen, at the end of the day, Mark, this isn't Marcos. This is bag boy. But Marcos, I hope you're listening to. He probably is. I hope so. I love my quilt. It's. It's lighter like you said.
It also takes up less space in my pack and it's really versatile. I use it as a blanket sometimes I'll kind of drape it around my arms like a cape when I'm feeling fancy.
And they, they, you know, Colin, that's how you get. Colin's laughing at me right now.
Colin True
00:33:29.670 - 00:33:31.510
Like, ate the accent. That was hilarious.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:31.990 - 00:33:33.470
Wait, what accent you got?
Colin True
00:33:33.470 - 00:33:34.390
A really fancy.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:34.870 - 00:33:36.080
Yeah, really fancy.
Colin True
00:33:37.990 - 00:33:56.790
So, okay, back to Mia June's point about sustain ethically ethical outdoor companies. Yes, I. I do think it'd be hilarious if there's some subjectivity to the R numbers.
If someone's like, we're coming out with R100, some giant number like K. Yes. One warm bag to rule them all. You will never defeat our R number. I think this would be hilarious.
Shawnté Salabert
00:33:56.950 - 00:33:59.110
It's like the whip snake 30,000.
Colin True
00:33:59.670 - 00:34:10.680
I'm annoyed by the idea of someone who would get a blanket and then buy a specific hood to. To then wear while you're using the buy your quilt and then have a hood.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:10.680 - 00:34:16.800
But you're not buying the quilt because it doesn't have a hood. You're buying the quilt because the bottom doesn't keep you warm on a sleeping bag.
Colin True
00:34:16.800 - 00:34:21.560
Well, then. Then I would say just didn't commit and get the sleeping bag. It's like, you can't have it both ways. And this is an outdoor thing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:21.720 - 00:34:22.760
You want to carry less.
Colin True
00:34:23.240 - 00:34:30.600
Well, that's my point. You wanted to carry less, so you have to sacrifice something. So I'm trying to like, it's such an outdoor industry thing.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:31.530 - 00:34:35.370
It is an outdoor industry thing because they gotta erase a problem and then create a new problem.
Colin True
00:34:35.610 - 00:34:39.850
Right. We've created. Right. And then we're gonna call that innovation. Back again to me and Jen's question.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:40.090 - 00:34:44.250
I've innovated something fancy you could put on your head while you're sleeping in a quilt.
Colin True
00:34:44.410 - 00:34:49.210
Because it's funny. Like, I do. I like, even at home, I tend to like wrap my feet in my blankets.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:49.210 - 00:34:51.530
I like the feeling of being my feet in there.
Colin True
00:34:51.610 - 00:34:52.170
Was that.
Shawnté Salabert
00:34:52.410 - 00:34:55.130
Yeah, I gotta have my feet in there. I don't want the monsters to get them.
Colin True
00:34:55.130 - 00:35:18.680
So. But I like that idea. But I also know that like, like, hey, if we're gonna do a few night backpacking trip, everything you said makes more sense.
And I would absolutely do this even at the risk of maybe. Maybe you would be a little colder. You don't have the hood then to your point, put a hat on. The whole idea here is you have less weight in your pack.
It's more convenient. And it's just all of these things and now it's like, well, hold on now let me get six other accessories to mimic a mummy bag.
Then just get a mummy bag.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:19.880 - 00:35:27.510
I like that. I appreciate, Colin, that once an episode, you need something to shake your wrist at. So I'm glad that's what it wants was this episode.
Colin True
00:35:27.510 - 00:35:34.990
Well, that just. There's someone out there is like, oh, my God. You know what we're gonna do?
We're gonna make, you know, sleeping bag hoods and that's gonna be our business. And we're gonna go out and crush.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:34.990 - 00:35:42.550
It and just know that the real. The real grifter is the one who makes the panel to put back into the sleeping bag. Like, do you miss.
Colin True
00:35:42.870 - 00:35:46.310
Someone has thought of that and made prototypes, I guarantee you.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:48.630 - 00:35:51.190
Yeah, you can get the special bag insert.
Colin True
00:35:51.510 - 00:35:51.990
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:52.630 - 00:35:55.970
99.99. So. Oh my God.
Colin True
00:35:55.970 - 00:35:59.410
I'm sure that exists. I'm sure, you know, garage Grown Gear probably sells it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:35:59.410 - 00:36:00.130
Ask Lloyd.
Colin True
00:36:00.130 - 00:36:01.810
Ask Lloyd Vogel's fault.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:02.610 - 00:36:08.610
Actually, if there. If one doesn't exist, maybe you and I can manufacture it and we'll just call it the Lloyd. We'll sell it on his website.
Colin True
00:36:08.850 - 00:36:10.610
He'd probably. That'd be. That'd be an honor.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:12.530 - 00:36:25.440
I love that. I love. I like it when we can get a good Lloyd Vogel mention in on an episode.
You know, non industry people are probably like, who the hell is Lloyd Vogel? Why do you guys bring him up so much? He is the founder of Garage Grown Gear, which we love very much.
Colin True
00:36:25.840 - 00:36:26.640
And we love Lloyd.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:27.120 - 00:36:29.040
We do love Lloyd. He is a lovely human being.
Colin True
00:36:29.120 - 00:36:29.840
Yes, he is.
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:30.800 - 00:36:41.200
Well, all right, Colin. It is. As much as I'd like to just keep waxing poetic about Lloyd. What we got to wrap it up here at some point. Which is now. Now is the point.
Final question.
Colin True
00:36:41.680 - 00:36:51.200
Okay. It's been like two episodes, so we need to ask you the question since I. It's been two episodes since I asked you the question. What's in my pack?
Shawnté Salabert
00:36:53.350 - 00:36:55.230
I'm never not gonna laugh when you say that.
Colin True
00:36:55.230 - 00:37:00.150
I swear. You're adding this now just so I'll say it. We need to know gear. Abby, what's in your back?
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:02.390 - 00:37:14.390
Ah, it is. It is something. There's something satisfying about listening to you say that. We gotta. At some point, I need to just create an.
A part of like a special, you know, segment called the Enforcer, just so you can say that again.
Colin True
00:37:14.390 - 00:37:15.030
I love it.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:15.190 - 00:37:23.620
Maybe when people ask us rules questions, we'll just start calling it now we've got the Enforcer. But for now, I'll take what's. What's in your bag.
Colin True
00:37:23.620 - 00:37:24.820
What's in my bag?
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:25.140 - 00:37:38.660
Well, let me tell you, I am not actually this time. I know we've talked about a lot of stuff I'm testing, but this time I'm not going to talk about that.
I actually want to talk about the magic of the sun umbrella.
Colin True
00:37:38.980 - 00:37:42.220
Oh, gosh. You have to sell me on this. I'm listen. Yeah, all right.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:42.220 - 00:37:43.140
That's what I'm going to do.
Colin True
00:37:43.300 - 00:37:44.420
Okay, okay, okay.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:44.420 - 00:37:45.260
Shut your mouth. Mouth.
Colin True
00:37:45.260 - 00:37:49.260
I'm gonna put. Let me put on my sleeping bag hood and get ready for this conversation.
Shawnté Salabert
00:37:50.620 - 00:38:46.480
Please do. I'll sell you a panel insert afterwards.
So I was thinking about this, the sun umbrella, because someone who listened to the recent episode where we talked about PCT permits, right, asked a mutual friend who then was like, hey, this person heard your podcast and they have a follow up question they didn't ask me.
I did not get an email direct from them, but they asked my friend if May was too, too early to start the PCT since the desert's already going to be hot as hell. Yeah, it is a pretty late start. People do it every year.
But one of my points when responding, I'd mentioned, like, they should make sure they had like a pretty high water carrying capacity. And then I recommended carrying a sun umbrella. So let's talk about it.
Let me just wax poetic for a minute before you naysay everything I'm about to say. I first heard about these while I was on the PCT and I actually picked one up in the Sierra in a hiker box.
Somebody had left it there because they're like, I'm done with this. I'm done with the desert.
Colin True
00:38:46.640 - 00:38:47.200
Good decision.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:48.000 - 00:38:54.280
Yeah. No, it's not pretend. You didn't say that. We just talked about Death Valley, man. You said of all the parts I know.
Colin True
00:38:54.280 - 00:38:54.880
That's a good.
Shawnté Salabert
00:38:55.440 - 00:39:29.820
All right, all right. You hypocrite. So a sun umbrella. It's not. It's not. You're not going to be carrying a table with you.
It's not one of those things that you have at a restaurant. This is actually just a really lightweight umbrella whose main function, you reflect the sun's heat away from your dome. Okay. They're deflecting heat.
They come in really handy in hot places where there's not a lot of shade. So the desert. I remember thinking, I wish I'd had it further south on the pct, you know, like I said, I found it in the Sierra.
You're past the desert at that point.
Colin True
00:39:29.820 - 00:39:30.300
Yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:39:30.380 - 00:40:33.390
There was a day, though, where I ended up crawling under a bush and only half of my body fit under the bush. It was a six mile burn zone. It was so rough and it was like 80 degrees that day.
And I just crawled under there like a small animal and kind of whimpered until it cooled down a little bit. It was very pathetic. I wish I had a sun umbrella then. Okay. They help so much. I was skeptical too, Colin.
And then when I got that umbrella, I started using it and oh my God, it actually does reflect the heat off of you. And it's been really amazing down here in Southern California. They're actually also. The name tells you. They're actually also great for rain.
Although I don't usually care about rain on the trail, what I do care about is hail. Yeah. So I.
The first year I was on the Colorado trail, a friend of mine was about like two weeks ahead of me on the trail and I was just like, how's the trail going? Any. Any pro tips? She's like, oh, my God, I'm so glad I have my sun umbrella. I'm like, why'd you bring your sun umbrella to Colorado?
She's like, hey, I. Hail.
Colin True
00:40:34.750 - 00:40:35.950
Afternoon thunderstorms.
Shawnté Salabert
00:40:36.110 - 00:41:16.220
Oh, my God, I was so happy I had it. It. It hailed so hard there. And then it just did that every day, like multiple times because it was the middle of the monsoon.
I have never experienced such aggressive hail. In fact, one day it was like bright blue skies, puffy little clouds.
I was hanging out in a campsite with MacGyver, who we've talked about, and two other friends that came to resupply us. And within like five minutes, the sky changed. It just started like pouring down hail.
And afterwards I have some great photos of my big Agnes Flag Creek just buried. It looks like it's buried in snow. That's how Much hail there was. So, yeah, it's the sun umbrella. Also great for hail.
Colin True
00:41:17.100 - 00:41:23.420
Pretty funny if, like, the sun umbrella didn't work with rain and hail and stuff, it's like, nah, just sun only, you know.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:23.420 - 00:41:27.470
That's not for me, but I'll sell you an attachment.
Colin True
00:41:27.550 - 00:41:29.790
That's right. Here's the rain umbrella.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:30.030 - 00:41:32.230
You put the rain umbrella over the sun umbrella.
Colin True
00:41:32.230 - 00:41:34.470
You need to carry both with your.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:34.470 - 00:41:53.750
Sleeping bag hood and your insert and your Lloyd and your Lloyd. I am. I am actually right now using. So I've upgraded my old decrepit sun umbrella to a gossamer gear light Trek hiking umbrella. And it is gold. Now.
Most of them are silver, which is the, you know, stereotypical reflection.
Colin True
00:41:53.750 - 00:41:54.510
Matches your grill.
Shawnté Salabert
00:41:55.300 - 00:41:59.300
That's right. My Randy Macho Man Savage grill. How did you know?
Colin True
00:41:59.540 - 00:42:01.460
Gear Abby is a really unique look, guys.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:02.740 - 00:42:12.260
I'm a fancy, fancy girl, okay? It's a really. Yeah. If you haven't seen pictures of me on the Internet or Instagram or anything, that's definitely what I look like.
Colin True
00:42:12.260 - 00:42:13.060
Oh, yeah.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:13.300 - 00:42:32.280
Oh, yeah. Step into a ultralight umbrella. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I feel like a feral Mary Poppins whenever I use this thing, which is not a bad way to feel.
Deal. You know? So, yeah, that's. That's my. That's my. I'm selling you on the sun umbrella, Colin. You barely go outside. You have no use for it anyway.
Colin True
00:42:32.520 - 00:42:36.920
No, look, I'm gonna say, do not listen to me on this one at all.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:37.400 - 00:42:38.920
This is listen to shot.
Colin True
00:42:39.800 - 00:42:46.840
What I will say about the sun umbrella is that it is in the category of outdoor gear. That is just insufferable.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:47.800 - 00:42:49.120
Why is this insufferable?
Colin True
00:42:49.120 - 00:42:52.050
You're someone with their little umbrella.
Shawnté Salabert
00:42:52.050 - 00:42:54.130
Somebody who's not burning in the sun.
Colin True
00:42:54.210 - 00:43:13.170
It just. It's just. It's just not cool. It just looks uncool. It's like, it's the climber glasses. It's the cyclist who has a little mirror on this.
All of these things completely functional and really helpful. But you look like a dork when you're using it. And that's it. So it's a total, like, fashion, like, cool kid point of view.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:13.490 - 00:43:29.130
Don't listen to me, Colin. You're such a bully. We've talked about this on the podcast and you agreed with me. Last time somebody asked about, like, I'm afraid to look.
It's stupid. And I was like, it doesn't matter how you look to other people. Hike your own hike. See, Colin, you are. You're super hypocritical in today's. Episode.
Colin True
00:43:29.130 - 00:43:32.370
I'm not saying I wouldn't use it if I was put in this situation.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:32.530 - 00:43:36.050
I'm not going to let you. I'm going to tell Gossamer Gear never to sell you one.
Colin True
00:43:36.290 - 00:43:40.050
So, Colin, forced march through Death Valley. No sun umbrella.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:40.050 - 00:43:44.130
That's right. I'm going to be undermined like my little fairy feral Mary Poppins self.
Colin True
00:43:44.130 - 00:43:51.500
Just cool. Like, just, you know, no sweat on your skin whatsoever. I'm just going to die. No, no, no. You're absolutely right. But I'm just saying it looks dorky.
Shawnté Salabert
00:43:51.500 - 00:44:46.000
I don't care. You look dorky. That's how I'm going to end the show today. I'm going to do a really good comeback and just tell you, Colin, you look dorky.
All right, with that lovely little insult. That's it for this episode of Gear Abby.
Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places and pastimes over to DearGearAbbyMail.com that's a B B Y. Just in case some of you are emailing some other address, I'm going to do my best to answer them or find someone else who can.
And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the POD and make my day. And follow us on Instagram at Gear Abby pod.
In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and this guy, Colin True art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. I'm Chante Salibair. And remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.
Colin True
00:44:47.200 - 00:44:47.760
Yeah.
