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New Outdoor Products, Run Retail Goes After Pickleball and Do Branded Materials Matter?

Today Colin & Justin catch up on their latest and upcoming outdoor adventures, the value of crowded National Parks and a bad encounter at a mountain town outdoor retailer.

Then they dig into some recent headlines including new product lines from Outdoor Research & Salewa, run retailers who are getting into the Pickleball world and debate the value of branded fabric in outdoor apparel.

All this and a few other errant rocks thrown on this episode of THE ROCK FIGHT!

Have a question or comment for a future mailbag episode? Send it to or send a message on Instagram or Threads.


Colin (00:57):

Well, to the rock fight where we speak our truth. Slay sacred cows sometimes. Agree to disagree. I'm Colin. True. And joining me today, his toddler wants Velcro sneakers, but he bought her some, he bought her some men's Danner boots instead. It's Justin Almond. Do they make, I bet they do make little, like $400 toddler, like full grain leather hikers. I bet. <laugh>. Imagine trying to get those onto a child's foot. Dude, shoes are the bane of raising children. Like that's the hardest thing about raising children is shoes. Well, yeah, they, I, I, this morning was, you know, the usual battle. Like, you're okay. That's the wrong foot. That's the wrong foot <laugh>. That's still the wrong foot. Like, just how, how hard is this? But yeah. Have you done a thing yet where you literally hand the, like a kid to the daycare person and then hand the shoes <laugh> to the daycare person? <laugh>? No. No. But they, they, they tell me That's fine. I just love that you, when you look at all the other kids, like half of them have shoes on the wrong feet. It's like, that's, apparently it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. This seems so intuitive to me. Like, I'll be like, look, the toes point at each other. How do you not what you three, how do you not understand this <laugh>?

(02:02) Alright, well, so today we're gonna get caught up on what we've been doing in our outdoorsy lives, as well as talks through some outdoor industry related headlines. I definitely have a few things I want to talk about what I've been up to the last couple of weeks. It's been a while since we've had a conversation like this. So, uh, do, do you wanna kick it off? I know you've been busy, uh, between work and family life. Do you have any, uh, fun, outdoorsy things you've been trying to, trying to squeeze in while being a solo parent? The only, not really, except that I'm going backpacking next week, and I haven't gone backpacking since my four year old was born. So, figure a year before, uh, I think I went when my wife was pregnant, so it's probably been like four and a half years or something.

(02:35) Are you going solo? Yeah. Um, so I'm going, uh, I've also never backpacked in Yosemite before, so, uh, I'm pretty stoked. I got a permit that's kind of hard to get randomly. And, but what's what's gnarly though is I wasn't gonna do that. I, I originally was gonna go to an area called Twin Lakes, which is a little, um, bit, uh, north of Yosemite. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, um, for the flu I've always wanted to do, but there's just so much fucking snow. Like everything Yeah. Is like all the big loops that are actually, that are above like 10,000 feet are impassable unless you, you know, well, even if you have like crampons and stuff, it's just not that pleasant, you know? So, so are you choosing a route then that it kind of keeps you, I'm sure you'll top out 'cause you're gonna be in the Sierra at some point you're gonna be up on snow, but I'll also trying to stay below snow line or what's Yeah, I'm gonna try to.

(03:17) So, so I abandoned that one, that route. 'cause I got a permit in Yosemite, which, you know, I've never, I've, the Yosemite permitting system is super complicated. Yeah. And, um, you know, you, you can do it way in advance or like a week in advance and you just kind of see what's open and, but like, it doesn't, you have to know the trailhead. You have to like know the trailhead and where you want to camp. Um, and I don't, I've ne you know, I don't know. So I fi I found a cool trailhead that it, um, had a permit opening and it's starts at like, whatever, T 12 is like 8,000 feet. So I'll be fine for the first day, but I'll hit some stuff around 10 do actually, when we're done, I'm gonna go to r e i to buy some micro spikes. 'cause I'll hit some, like I'll hit some snow patches at like 11,000 feet on some passes.

(03:57) I want to go over mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that'll be fun. But anyway, that's been my, so just like kind of going through my, um, garage and, you know, I have a couple of backpacks I still never even used, you know, and I've been like, kind of, I've been the guy that's like tromping around the neighborhood with like boots and like a full backpack on just kind of trying to feel out, you know, okay, this, this feels good. You know? Um, I I'm not You're gonna go with an unproven pack? I have to, yeah. Like, I've gotten the only pack that's in our garage that's, that's had me use is my wife's pack and she won't let me use it. So, um, <laugh>, uh, and like, we're the same size, so like, I could, you know, but she's like, no, dude, you're not using my pack.

(04:29) So, um, respect. But I, uh, yeah, they'll be fine. I mean, one of them is the, is the Osprey, um, what's the ether or whatever, like, it's a big pack. It's like a 70 liter pack. I got it. With the idea that I would, um, you know, we'd take one of our kids backpacking and I'd end up like taking their stuff too. And that just never happened. So, um, but it's, it's just so freaking co comfortable, you know, I'll only fill it like a third full. So how many nights? Three. And so, wait, so when you're gonna, because you know, by all accounts, like, you know, the post covid world, national parks are, are be, are well attended, let's say. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So are you gonna go at a different entrance so you can avoid some of, some of the, well, thankfully no, there's you same, you're, you're kind of hosed, but I'm not going into the valley.

(05:12) Um, so that is like, 90% of the traffic is into the valley. So 12 New Meadows has its own interest and stuff. So like, and 12 New Meadows Campground, which is like a 400 person, um, campground Yeah. Is, uh, closed for the summer while they're like redoing stuff. So that will hopefully keep the traffic down. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I'll have to leave here like, you know, four in the morning to get up there in time to get like a, my permit and get on the trail at a decent hour. You know, it ki it makes me think about, like, I don't think it should be as surprising to anybody that I would probably take an opposing point of view on this. It, it seems like the kind of prevailing thought on the attendance of National Parks is that it's like a bad thing. Like, oh, they're overrun.

(05:49) And I kind of take the same point of view like I did when I was talking about Speaker guy. My episode I put up earlier this week about, I don't know, like, I feel like national parks are almost like a starter adventure. I mean, it's places where people can go and if you especially you know where to go. But like, people go in Yosemite are probably, all those people are all going to the same place in Yosemite. Yeah. And shouldn't we all have a little bit of a, isn't it still ultimately better? Yes, there are some bad apples there, but isn't it ultimately better that people are going to national parks? Yeah. And aren't the national parks probably the one spots that are like able to handle that level of like, they have the infrastructure to be able to handle that. That, I mean, does that make sense?

(06:25) I think so. I mean, I, especially yosem, like Yosemite, to me, the Valley, it's at least like, we kind of, I don't know if this is ever the intention, but the way I think of Yosemite Valley is like, okay, that's like, that's, that's just for people. Like that's it. That like, right at one, at one point, I'm sure it was like mind bendingly amazing to go in there without all the infrastructure now, but like that's, that place is gone. You know, like it's, it's it that is for people and that's fine. Yeah. You know, it's like a great, it's, it's like it was designed for it. I mean, it's, it's a perfect place to go if you're not comfortable in the mountains. And it's awe-inspiring. And it gets, you know, if you wanna leave it, you can. If you wanna do big stuff, you can, but for the most part, most people don't.

(07:02) And that's great. And that's fine. Like, I don't have a problem with that at all. Um, I do think it would be nice. Like, I was surprised to see the reservation system isn't happening anymore. Um, like yeah, even la even earlier this year, you still needed reservations to get into the, to the, to drive in. And I wish you, you did. 'cause that's really nice. We go, we go to Yosemite every year and it's really nice when there's, uh, a reservation system just 'cause it's a little bit less, it's easier to get around, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's it. I don't care. I mean the, I I already know that. Well the quota system is great in the back country, so like, it won't be crowded in the back country. 'cause you can only, you know, only like five people a day can leave from certain trail hits.

(07:34) So like, well that's kind of what I mean. Right? I mean, like, you know, I've, you know, I've been, you go to Paradise and Rainier, right. And the parking lot's full and, but most people same thing are, it's like going to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Like most people don't walk down into the canyon. And the Yeah. The rim's a mess. You know, I've been at Cadillac Mountain in Acadia, you know, everyone drives to the top of Cadillac Mountain. But if you go, it's a few minutes down the road. I think it's like the Southwest harbor. There's like nobody there and it's gorgeous, you know, and it's like this incredible Maine coast and everything. So, I don't know, I just, I think there, there are probably a lot of ways you could dress up, like you're saying, but then there's also plenty of ways once you're in to like, go experience the park without the crowds, right?

(08:10) Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the, the valley's a good point. I mean, if you're in the valley, you're either a tourist or you're a climber walking up to go climb one of the big faces, right? I mean, it's kind. And the Valley valley's not even that cool. I mean, the va it's fine. Like, it's, it's amazing. If you've never been, I mean, it's obviously an incredible place, but it's not, it's not like 4,500 feet. Like it's not, you're not even in the mountains. I mean, it's cool to just granite towering over you, but I mean, that's, that's not high, you know? And so this, everything up up at 12 Meadows is so gorgeous. And I, you know, I, my all my mountain experience was never in Yosemite. 'cause it always, always felt like it was too crowded. So, uh, this would be fun for me to actually get back and see some of the things I've always wanted to see.

(08:46) And it's cool 'cause I can, you know, it's not that far from my usual stomping grounds, which is immigrant wilderness. If I just kept walking north, I'd hit that eventually. Well, you mentioned, uh, so hiking. So I was up there, I was hiking and I, I thought of you 'cause I was wearing my ultra alone, ultra alone peaks as hikers. And I kind of, I've only ever run in them. And I, I think they kind of suck as a hiking shoe, which, I mean, I know I'm in the minority of that. 'cause it's like the go-to like, through hiker shoe right now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I don't know, I, I, I dunno if it was the outsole or maybe I just haven't really hiked that much since I was more of a trail runner previously, previous to my latest knee surgery, <laugh>. But it's, uh, I, I don't know.

(09:23) I I I'm not, I'm not saying trail runners. I'm saying the ultra piece. Those particular ones specifically. Yeah. Yeah. They kind of sucked as a hiker. Those things are so squishy and soft. I mean, I don't, that's why I don't, that's why Yeah. I love to wear 'em around town, but they, I think of them as like outdoor slippers. I, um, I, so I'm, I'm trying to break in these giant zamberlan I sent you that picture. Um, they're so, they're so badass. But like, I was thinking of you yesterday, 'cause I'm, I'm coming there. My town has all these like, little trails that go up from, uh, we're in a valley and there's hills on both sides. So there's a lot of like, trails between houses and stuff that you can like mm-hmm. Take to get from one block to another. So I'm just kind of going up and down these little trails in my neighborhoods.

(09:59) Um, and like these boots, like the reason that you have these boots is for like, downhill. Like, it is so, oh yeah. It, it like saves your knees, it saves your quads. Like you're not slipping. Like, you just feel so like grounded when you're going downhill. Just secure. Yeah. God, it's great. Like I can't, I just cannot fathom. Yeah. They're big, you know? But I cannot imagine like, backpacking and, and trail runners ever again. I just, I just can't, I just don't get it. Well the, the one thing that made me think of this too was, so, and I want to, I have a, I have a rock fight to pick on my trip with a, with a retailer. I dunno if I should say the name of the retailer. I dunno if that'd be nice. But we, you can help me decide in a second.

(10:34) But when I was in the store, I noticed, and this is in Bishop, uh, California, which is, you know, right at the foot of the Eastern Sierra there, I didn't see a single alter in there, but there's a lot of, uh, topo to both athletics and me shoe and which has, which use Bieber mouth souls. So it's almost, and they have a little bit of a drop versus zero drop on the Ultra. So it was like a four millimeter drop, I think on the run venture with a Bieber mouth. So, and I'm wondering if like, that is just a little more that grip maybe even. Yeah, probably. Right. So I'm think I give those a shot. Well, we can play about this retailer. So like, so, so I'm heading up the bishop and the whole thing is like, where's the snow line? Right? Like, where are you gonna run into the snow?

(11:11) And I had made a plan to go up, uh, just near Mammoth Lakes and do, it was like a 13 mile loop. And I'm like, look, amazing. You're aware by the way. Let, you're aware that you can look, you can just see that in Gaia, right? Yeah, no, I know. But it's also like, you know, just kind of curious, thinking about it anecdotally, right? Like, what are people saying? What have you, has anybody done this lately? It's like, oh, it's great, or No, you don't want go there. That kind of thing. And so, and, and I was totally willing to just go and throw caution to the wind who caress. But at the same time, you know, I've like, oh, I'll go to a, I'll go to a retailer. 'cause you know, I, I remember when I worked outdoor retail, one of my favorite parts were people coming in.

(11:43) Oh, where are you headed? Oh man, I was up there last weekend. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is awesome. Or, oh, actually this. Don't go there. Whatever. Yeah. So, uh, I have this experience where I walk into the store and, and <laugh>, this is crack of you up. 'cause I'm immediately taken back to my retail days and trying to like, diagnose exactly what was happening. So I walk in and there's a guy, three guys behind the counter, and the one guy kind of catches my eye, but immediately looks away. Oh, right. So he doesn't want anything to do with me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, and I'm like, all right, this guy, I, you know, it was like four in the afternoon. Yeah. It could be end of his day. Yeah. End of his day. He is like, fuck, this guy's coming in. He wants to do, he, he wants a full backpacking kid.

(12:17) I don't have two hours to kill with this guy. You know, I'm just gonna lay low and get outta here. Like, all right, no worries. Nobody else says anything to me. So I start walking around the store, great looking store all the stuff you'd expect to see in an awesome outdoor store. Right. The, uh, the foothills of a major mountain range. So still no one's talking to me. So I'm like, I'm gonna go to the footwear section, the footwear section's, like the action on, on an outdoor retailer. Right. Nobody leaves you alone in the footwear section. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. It's like the best place to work if you're working at a dealer, whatever. Go over. That's where I make my observation about like, oh, they got a lot of topos. No ultras. That's interesting. Also, no bedrocks. I was like, that's disappointing, but whatever. <laugh> seems like a, that really seems like a bedrock town to me.

(12:53) That's what I thought. I mean, they had, they have chacos and, you know, everything else. I probably had some keen, so again, no one comes up and says anything to me. So I look over and the guys are still all behind the counter. So I just start kind of wandering towards the counter. Nobody picks their head up. They're all just kinda looking. And like, I mean, it was, it literally like, am I visible right now? Am I a spirit like <laugh>? This is, this is like retail 1 0 1. You, you, you had some look about you. I I must have and yeah, maybe it's me. Maybe, you know, like this. Like, they don't wanna deal like, oh, this is the, I don't know, this is that guy that we don't want to deal with, but whatever. I'm sorry, mean your story. You gotta say, did they look like, did they look like outdoor dudes?

(13:29) They did, they looked like white outdoor dudes. Yeah, right. No, they were doing stuff and one guy was like unpacking a box or whatever, but there's no one else in the store. They were not busy. Okay. So, uh, you know, I'm like, all right, well, so I walk right up to 'em. I go, Hey guys, I'm gonna ask you the question. You probably already got a thousand times a day. Now I know this makes me an asshole for trying to be funny, but whatever <laugh>, I go and I'm like, where's the snow? And they kinda like, oh, yeah, yeah. Kinda laugh. No answer. <laugh> no. Like, not even like, not even like giving me like the stock response. Like, what are you telling everybody? And uh, and I'm like, yeah, I heard it's a lot. Like, you know, I'm actually thinking of going up to this one area and near the mammoth crest.

(14:07) And the wine guy goes, oh, actually I'd probably be okay, because it was really exposed. It's probably melted out. So I'm like, all, so I'm engaged with this guy. So I dunno. I said something to him just again, like zero response. And so, and like, just clearly wanted me to just move on. Now, I, the thing that bothers me about this is like, even if I, I don't think I was being a dick, but maybe I was, but if it <laugh>, even if I was, how do you know I wasn't there to buy a complete like, backpacking kit? Well, they don't give a fuck. They don't own the store. They don't want you to buy like <laugh>. That's a good point. Yeah. I don't know, man. It was just really disappointing. So then, then I moved on down the street to another outdoor store and it was awesome.

(14:44) <laugh>. And I walked in much smaller store guys. Me like, Hey man, what's going on? I'm like, ah, you know, I'm just sit down to do some hikes. Oh, where are you from? Like, oh, I'm down south. Oh man, I'm from down there too. You know, like, totally engaging, you know, like, I'm gonna head this way. He's like, yeah, you're gonna run in into snow wherever you go. It's just that year, you know? I'm like, okay, thanks man. And I walked <laugh>. I just walked out the door and it was great. That is, that's interesting that you could have that, like two different experiences like that. I wonder what that's about. I mean, it's gotta be hard. I don't know, maybe not in a place like Bishop, but I've noticed even just around here, you know, as it becomes harder and harder to afford to live here without Yeah.

(15:18) A professional salary. Like, I don't expect much, you know? Yeah. When I go in and like, ask questions about anything, you know? 'cause I feel like I, no, no, maybe that makes me sound like an asshole. But, you know, I'm as, it's like, it's, there's not a ton of, like, I feel like there, there was a time where you could be like a pretty high functioning, you know, person who could be doing a million things, but you love Bishop and you love the outdoors, so you're gonna work there for a while where it's like, I don't know how, if you find that anymore, you know, like, oh, you, you might be right. I just feel like you're in a mountain town. Like, people are coming here to do this stuff. You know, you should probably be prepared for these kinds of questions. Uh, whether it's, that is, that is wild.

(15:52) I mean, that's kind of, that's like a big part of what the servicer, that's what you're supposed to like, right? Like, that's why you like the independent store. I mean, that's why you like, versus going on an r e shop or something, you know, it's like, I wanna go in and like chat with you about like the waves or whatever. And, you know, I, I don't usually have, I mean, r e i's fine. It's like, you know, it's like the c plus outdoor store. You can get whatever you need there. It's reliable. And occasionally you run into somebody who really knows what they're talking about. It's not my favorite place to shop. But I think the specialty stores are like, that's usually the difference is like, the people who work at the specialty stores are usually the more like, core outdoor people. Well, and also, yeah, like, so where I, in, where I grew up in, in San Luis Obispo there, um, there used to be, it's my all time favorite.

(16:28) It's funny, I don't even know if it was that good, but in my mind it was the best. It was my all time favorite gear store. It was called the Granite Stairway. I think there might've been two at some point. But it, um, awesome place. Like exactly what you would want, like an independent building with nothing around it. Um, but close to downtown. It had like this cool painting of like a guy like climbing a mountain on the side of it. Classic. It was kind of intimidating when you didn't, you know, well, I don't know what's going on in there, you know, and like ropes and the windows and stuff. But when I, um, I bought my first, um, boots there and, uh, ever. And like, uh, I went in and talked to the guy for a really long time that owned it. And he was so awesome.

(17:03) You know? And like, I was like, look man, I'm, I, I, I just got this job with National Park Service. I've gone hiking and backpacking a little bit, but not much. I'm gonna be in the Sierra for like three months. Help me. You know? Right. And, and he was like, boom. And like hooked me up with stuff that I kept for years. He was so great. But then I, like, I had to go pick something up at a place called Mountain Air Sports, which is also very cool. It's in slow. Mm-hmm. It's, it's, it's also like a little regional thing. And like, but all the dudes that work there like go to Cal Poly, you know, like they're, they like to do stuff, but they're, you know, it's not like their life. You know, it's not that they don't own it and you know, just is like, kind of the same experience that you described.

(17:38) And I remember just that one time though, kind of negatively colored that like, I never went back to Mountain Air Sports <laugh> just 'cause I was like, eh, they don't seem like they really care. Even though I'm sure that's not true. It's still there today. Grant Stairway is gone. Well, and maybe, you know, maybe it's, you know, they get so many people in there that it's just kinda like, they'll wait for the me to say, Hey, I need help. And then they'll gladly pitch in, you know? I don't know. But, uh, oh, it's always busy. And you, you walked in when they had like five minutes to themselves. <laugh>. I mean, like, I used to like, God, I was a bartender for years and like, it, it was not, had nothing to do with you. Sometimes you'd come in and I'd be like, hell yeah.

(18:11) You wanna taste every beer we have, we have a hundred beers. Let's taste them all. Well, lemme tell you everything about everything. <laugh>. Oh, the fish and chips are great. Like, here's how we do it. Come meet the chef. Like, sometimes I would be like that <laugh>. Other times I'd just glare at you like, what the fuck are you doing in here right now? Right. Get the fuck out. So it's like, eh, how do you know? Well, let's talk about some outdoor headlines. Before we do, let's talk about gear trade. 'cause that's our sponsor of the podcast. But since 1999, gear Trade has been your go-to home for a new outdoor gear and a barrel act un new. Is that part of their official? That's their, that's their thing on new. All right. Wait, did you check, by the way, for Micros Spikes on gear trade before you run to uh, r e I?

(18:46) No, because they've been on there. They didn't have my size. You're right, you're right. I do. But I like, I'm gonna enjoy going into r e I and talking to 'em about it. Okay. Alright. I'm like looking forward to this experience. You're gonna get some kid who be like, I don't know what micro spikes are. Probably, probably. But you know, you have that jacket packer tent that's been left outta your last few adventures. You should load 'em all in a box and let Gear Trade sell 'em for you. They'll even send you a box and a shipping label. And Justin Hausman will help us kids turn that box into a little car. That's right. It's easy to, it's that easy to get cash money for all the stuff you're not using. Head to gear, click on the sell your stuff tab to learn more.

(19:21) Also, some headlines from the outdoor industry this week. I talked about one. I I wanna just get your, your gut reaction, because we've talked about mountain bike expansions before outdoor research this week or last week, announced that they're expanding into mountain bike with it a, a mountain bike apparel. And I, and I spoke about it on, on a solo PO earlier this week. Did you see that? Did you have any initial thoughts? Were you, were you kind of aligned with I got the, I got the, I got the press release or the public relations email and I didn't open it because frankly, I don't care. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure it's good. I've, I'm sure it's good. I love outdoor research. I think they made great stuff. Me, I just don't, don't need anything from it. I can't fathom what they could possibly be doing that's like worth, uh, me commenting on.

(20:02) So, yeah. You know, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure I'll, like the colors or whatever. I, I, I like their stuff is great, but I it it will be fine. Plenty. Plenty. It will absolutely be fine. Yeah. And my conclusion is like, that'll be like, again, a year from now, you, you search outdoor apparel on like and it'll be like the second page. It'll be like, I'll outdoor research bike shorts, you know, just be another thing. I mean, there's, there's probably a reason. Like, I, like, I guess, right? Like they, they, they're Yeah. Money big company. Like I, well, right, but I mean, like, they, they're probably like, oh, here's a niche. Like, I don't know, like May, I don't know what it could be. I should probably look at it to see. Maybe there is something. Maybe it's like, are you gonna ride your bike to the crag here by, because I mean, they've always been kind of climbing focused to me, or at least partially.

(20:41) So if you look at the way they describe it in the release, it's just other, it's just mountain bike stuff, right? And it's just like, oh, people are already using our stuff mountain biking, and now we're gonna tailor it to them specifically. It's like, you know, I, uh, two, I have two thoughts about that. One, I don't even really wear mountain bike specific stuff very often. You don't need to <laugh> two two, uh, you know, they just hired somebody who used to work for Pearl Zumi. You know, it's not like they like came, they just, they guarantee whoever's designing their stuff, it comes from a mountain bike brand. Oh, sure. Yeah. So it's like, it's gonna be this <laugh>, you know, like I, uh, so yeah. But yeah, I, I mean I, I I ride in shorts, which, you know, yeah. I guess they're mountain bike specific in the sense they have some stretch in them.

(21:20) But I mean, like, or, or just like light shorts. I have some mountain bike shorts, but they're like too long. You know? I don't know. They're fi I don't always, I rarely wear 'em. I never wear any mountain like bike specific shirts ever. There's probably, I don't know if there's a category and I'm including hiking in this, actually. That's, that's just more, it's democratic, the word. Like just more accepting of anyone who shows up. You and I spoke about this and everybody's listening to the, our podcast for the first time. Go back and listen to our conversation when SPO went outta business. We talk about when RAB launched their line of mountain biking in Paris. We, this is well trod ground for Justin and I, but the, I made a point in the solo pod about anybody can roll into the mountain bike ride. You can be there on your jts.

(21:58) And I could come in fully kitted out, like in spandex and we might make fun of each other, but we'd go ride and nobody would care. Yeah. Right. And, and both are perfectly, I get why people ride in mountain bike stuff. Right. I totally understand. I just, I, I've, I've done it and realized I don't really care enough. And I don't really want multiple sets of clothes. I think I've, as a hiker, I've commented on other people's hiking stuff. I've had my stuff commented on like, oh, you're wearing that from this person. I can't recall rolling up to a mountain bike ride and having anybody like, oh, you're wearing the new, uh, outdoor research, you know, hoodie kind. That's gotta happen. I'm sure that that must happen somewhere. I'm sure it does, but not like it does like a road, you know, it or so does with roadies.

(22:33) You know? It does with roadies. Totally. Totally. I think it'd be bigger news if they said they were breaking into the road world. Like that would be different. Mm-hmm. Like, like there you have to have a real point of view. And so the whole thing coming back to, and we talked about before is like, we don't need it. We're served. We have all the stuff we need. Now this morning, just this morning before we got on, on this, uh, to record this podcast, I saw a release about sla sva. Sva sva. Yeah. Did you see the progressive Trekking collection? No. Okay. So I, my immediate, my kneejerk was like, is this another one? Are we gonna do this again? But this was actually pretty cool based on the press release. Um, lemme look at it while you're talking to me. Featuring, it's, uh, it's, it's the progressive trekking collection for the spring summer 24 season featuring products made from natural fibers for newcomers and veteran adventurers.

(23:20) They're combining new fibers, uh, natural fibers, including hemp and marina wool with some synthetic. And it's all focused on like trekking, like not pack packing, hiking, like more product, you know, the, if I'm imagining, uh, more travel base, right. Or, you know, on foot travel versus back country, you know, safety. Yeah. Or like, you might be traveling. Well, I don't really know what trekking means. Yeah. It's a little gray. But the fact that they're leaning into the natural fibers, right. Like, I think that's worth talking about. And that's interesting to me. Like that's something Totally you and talk about the natural fiber thing. It's like, okay, where are you going with this? That's different. And that's newsworthy. 'cause there's not a lot of different when it comes to outdoor apparel. Well, plus, well, I was gonna say, you're right. You're totally right. I mean, I was G Saliva makes epic stuff.

(24:05) <laugh>, I really like their stuff a lot. They make good. I have a couple of other pieces and I like them a lot. Well, I've only ever had their shoes, but, uh, in Interesting. Yeah. But I agree. It's like, at least they're doing something that I, well, it's like they're, I mean, it's still a, they're like, here's a category we can like, you know, be, be one of the first in. So, I mean, it's obviously still like a money thing, but, um, it's definitely a money thing. Like, I'm not gonna see, like, I wanna see the pieces and be like, okay, this's really trekking is a bullshit term too here. I don't know. But the fact is going heavy on natural fibers and almost taking, that's a little in the face of the traditional outdoor market, you know? Yeah. To say we're leaning in natural fibers. Totally. Um, beyond Merino, obviously everybody does merino, but it's such a wild photo on the press release I'm looking at. Yeah. It's kinda like a weird tech wear guy or something like that. Yeah. Like a bucket with like a bucket hat. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, people are really trying to get, bring bucket hats back. They're trying hard. I feel like they're trying too hard. <laugh>.

(24:59) I wanna run another headline I saw to you. Um, I, I wanna run another headline I saw by you. And this was on Footwear News and the headline is Running, retailers are sprinting into the pickleball category. Oh my God. What do you think about pickleball? I don't know. I've, so, I played, I played tennis like competitively when I was younger. Yeah. So I love, I love tennis. I love the game. I'm sure pickle. Well, it has to be fun. I mean, like, I've never seen anything like this. Like, it's just sweeping the world. So it's, it's gotta be fun. It keeps showing up in all these outdoor like news aggregates, you know? So I'm like, it seems silly to me. It seems like, why don't you just play tennis? Especially if you're fit. Like, I don't Well, it's easier. I mean, the thing is you like, can you play tennis?

(25:44) I can't remember you. No, no. I've never been to tennis player. Okay. You could, you could go play pickleball. That makes sense. Like, you can walk out there and you could play pickleball. Like, whereas like, and like, you and I could probably hit the ball back and forth and have a good time. Whereas like if you, we went to go hit tennis balls, I'd leave in 30 seconds. Right. You'd be like, you dunno what you're doing. 'cause I'm be being, this is not fun for me. Right. So like, I, I, I get that aspect of it, but I, I don't, I'm not, I'm not interested in playing pickleball in, in any way shape or f Yeah. It says pickle balls was America's fastest growing sport in 2022. The reason I'm bringing this up is 'cause I keep seeing it on sporting goods media and outdoor media like that keeps getting covered by these outdoor outlets.

(26:16) And it's just like, it just, well then they need to make pickleball specific shoes. I mean, this is, that's so fucked. Well, that's it. Right? And they said, uh, Christina Henderson, who's the executive director of the Running Event, which is a big running trade show, if you're not familiar, said, running stores are starting to diversify what they're selling. The people who go to run their local five Ks and that type of thing are also doing yoga and hiking. And now they're playing pickleball. Which I mean, that's, you know, runners have always done other things, but there's a retailer they highlight on here who expanded into the building next to him with a pickleball cord because like the sell the, they're selling so many shoes. <laugh>, but they're like pickleball specific shoes. <laugh>. Yes. Why would you need that? You don't even really need tennis specific shoes.

(26:54) I mean, I, I had them, but they didn't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's like when cross trainers were a thing back in the nineties. Yeah. It's like, right. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe, uh, you and I are doing a bike packing trip this fall. Maybe when I come up to the bay to hang out with you. We should go play pickleball in the morning before we go out on our bikes just to see. I totally sim it's funny, I, I kind of sympathize. At first I thought it was ridiculous, but most of the things I hear about pickleball are, but people annoyed at how loud it is. So like, it ha I'm sure you have, you heard this, this is like a big problem. Like this is a huge problem in a lot of like, urban areas where like a pickleball area gets set up.

(27:25) Or like, someone puts pickleball courts in like a tennis court zone that no one ever really played at before. And now it's just that like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Sound of like, pickleball like thing back and forth and like, people are losing their shit. And I, it's, and I can sort of imagine that that probably does kind of suck. So that's, that to me is, I like, I kind of sympathize with the people that are like, dude, you can't bring a pickleball thing into my little neighborhood. 'cause I, I'll never get any work done. But yeah, I, I'm with you. My, my knee-jerk reaction, not even as a tennis player, is like, okay, we have table tennis, you have ping pong, like great. The in-home version of it. And then you have tennis. Why do we need this in between thing? It's for, I mean, it's, it, the whole point is that it's easier to play if you don't have very good mobility.

(28:04) Like, that's why it's a thing. It's like an IT man tennis, right? Yeah. It was started. I think that's like why it started, it was like older people that couldn't move around that well could play a pickleball. It's on E S P N. I saw some like doubles pickleball tournament on E S P N. Um, which, how good could you possibly be? That sport didn't exist two years ago. <laugh>. So, and now it's already on e s, espn. Like, I'm pretty sure I could probably play with the best pickle pickleball player in the world. Right. People sponsor you <laugh>. Like how hard, like, I, I, I mean, I don't think I'd win, but like, I think I'd probably hold my own just fine. Yeah. I've never even held a pickleball racket or paddle, whatever it's called. I, I don't, my knee jerk is to be, just be an absolute hater on this.

(28:42) But it's getting harder and harder to go there because why does it have to be called pickleball if it called? Well, that is a good question. Like, no matter what that game is, it's gonna, I'm not gonna respect it with the name of that pickleball. It sounds, I accidentally said Tickle ball earlier. And that's what I'm gonna call it from now on. I know we have a whole other podcast to record, but I got, I gotta look up Pickleball and Wikipedia and to see if there's, we, it started in 1965. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the game was created in 19 on Bainbridge Island where you were just up there. Huh? They added pickleball court at the Airbnb. How funny is that? So I didn't realize that. That's why I, the name of the game became pickleball after I said it reminded me of the Pickle boat and crew where Orman were chosen from the leftovers of other boats.

(29:22) What sources you like? You're not gonna tennis so you can play this like you're the leftover. Okay, this makes more sense. So these are the founders, the Pritchard family. Apparently the ones who started playing, they said, uh, other sources say that in pickleball was derived from the name of the Pritchards family dog Pickles. That makes more sense. So that was way more sense. <laugh>, I, it, it sickens me that running shoe companies are making pickleball shoes. I mean, or the, I don't know if running co they, the retailers are carrying them and I mean, you know, they're gonna carry other things. Oh. Besides running shoes. Either way. It's, uh, ah, it's just interesting. I don't know. I guess I'm, you know what, I guess at this point I'm, I'm finally reached the point where I'm gonna have to try play playing pickleball so I can form an opinion on it.

(29:56) 'cause I feel like I've just hated it instinctively. Uh, I guess I can't do that anymore. But you already like, you know exactly how much fun it will be, you know? Exactly. It'll be fun. I don't know, maybe it's more fun than we think. Maybe. It's awesome how I played tennis and I've played pinging pong a lot. Like I, I'm pretty sure <laugh>. It's like, yeah, well I guess maybe we'll have pickleball corner every week. We'll get the la where the latest stories in pickleball in the outdoor media is what we'll see. See how fast I can become a professional pickleball player. I would love that. Let's please make that happen. Be hilarious. Can't be. That really can't be that hard. I want like six weeks from now to be like, Hey, I can't come on the pod anymore. I'm, uh, I'm going on tour.

(30:28) I've already, I've already made it. <laugh> rank third. Yeah. Dude, if anybody who plays pickleball there be so mad at us having this conversation truly fucking hard, you know, <laugh>. No, it's not. I'll play Challenge me. Come, come. There's a pickleball court in my town. Come play me. Keeping it with footwear. Are you aware of the wrong shoe theory? No, it is a, uh, it's taking over on TikTok apparently. It's about picking the wrong shoes. It's so, you know, it's, it's, it's wearing, it's wearing picking out an outfit and then picking the exact wrong shoe to wear with it. And if you watch on these toss, you have these kind of like female influencers wearing really nice dresses and they have on like, new balanced dad shoes. So I wanted to bring this up 'cause immediately thought of <laugh> <laugh>. I, I I I I I get why you would, but I, no, I can't.

(31:14) 'cause I won't wear the wrong, I'll wear brightly colored, fucked up shoes, but I won't wear like the wrong kind of shoe for like, the pants I'm wearing. I think you need to get in on this, on this trend, man. You know, like you could wear like, put on suit. That stuff always works better on hot model, on like hot fashion chicks. That doesn't really work on like, dudes. That was what I was gonna say. Like the, the, the women who I, I watched some of these tos. I'm like, you could wear anything <laugh> and it'd be fine. Fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fine line between, you know, like what's okay and what's not okay when it comes to fashion. I did see like a fashion dude in San Francisco the other day wearing like two different color shoot. Not like a, like, like a hiphop look where sometimes they'll wear like two different color shoes.

(31:53) This is like a full on, like works in crypto or like tech or something. And he had like two, like high top weird zipped up shoes and a black one and a, and a white one. And I kind of wanted to stop and ask him about it <laugh>, but why, why he was, why he was choking. Just kind of like, what's like, what's up? Yeah. But no, he just, he probably, eh, I probably wasn't a lot of thought I was, probably was a lot of thought. Lord knows what I was wearing. I was taking my daughter to the doctor. So I was probably, you know, last thing I wanted to bring up with you. Um, and I, so I'm really close to this topic. So I wanted to kind of see what, um, somebody in your position thinks. So PrimaLoft announced a whole expansion of like fabrics that they're, they're, they're selling now to, to dealers and Okay.

(32:31) Someone who worked in the ingredient brand, the ingredient brand space. I might, I always notice these things. What's that? Ingredient? Ingredient? Well, okay, you may have my question. Um, 'cause like, I remember, so a story that Polar Tech has a, a fa fabric platform called Alpha, which is active insulation. And it's like, I remember it's the whole thing. Remember that? Right. And it's, uh, it's pretty incredible. Uh, but at the same time, I remember there was some coverage in some outdoor media and they got something completely wrong about it. Oh yeah. This is when I was working at Polar Tech and I got so mad <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, and I'm like, we gotta, like, we gotta call them or whatever. My, my boss is like kept it completely in perspective. He is like, dude, you're like one of five people in the world who really knows that.

(33:08) Yeah. I I I've gotten so many of those emails. That's not what it does. This is, or whatever, you know, so, so many times what we did learn though is that, especially outside of the us, um, having the label, right, having the polar tech label in the garment, regardless of what it was for, whether it was the main fabric or component or whatever, really did help on sell through Yeah. People. Right. And I always went to, especially working outdoor retail, people coming in all the time, picking up a Gore-Tex shell and saying, oh, this will keep me warm. Right. Not really understanding even what Goretex is. Right. And if there's an ingredient brand that has name recognition, it's Gore-Tex. So as someone who tests gear, someone who's into this, you're, you're going out on a backpacking trips. You're, you're all these things do ingredient brands really matter?

(33:48) Um, uh, and only in the way that you just mentioned, like if, if if I, it is hard 'cause I don't, it's hard because I don't buy these things. So I'm gonna have to go from I think that's even better though. 'cause it's like, what if it shows up and you see the label there? Uh, so, so like, if, if uh, call, you know, call in true outdoors sends me something like, will you check this out? I'm like, sure. And it shows up and there's nothing and, and like, I don't really, it maybe it feels synthetic. It feels like nylon. It feels like something I'm used to or something. But it doesn't have any, any recognizable ingredient. It's funny, I've never heard that term before and I, I wouldn't necessarily use it to describe it. Why, why not materials? What's the, the ingredients? Well, material.

(34:29) So is a, a textile nerd thing, I would just would think of ingredient as food. But anyway, I get what you're it. So somebody, if it doesn't have like a, like a recognizable to me thing, like, like PrimaLoft polar tech right? Is really the only two I can think of off the top of my head that do like insulation and or, you know, uh, performance fabrics. I, I, I would probably be skeptical about bringing it somewhere where I think where I thought that being like tech, like prepared properly would be, uh, if I wasn't, I might have a really bad trip. Like I probably wouldn't bring something like that. So, so there's an a minute legitimacy when you see those tags and Yes, but I, but I, but like, I don't, that's about where it stops, right? Like, I'm aware of like gor, like actual Gore-tex and then Goretex whatever, Infinium or whatever the, the white label stuff that's not actually waterproof, that's just kind of Right.

(35:12) Whatever, you know. So like, I'm aware that there's a difference there. And so I, I wouldn't wear the kind that isn't waterproof if I needed a waterproof garment. But, uh, as far o other than that, I, I'm not gonna like split hairs about what's made from or what it's supposed to do. Right. You know, like, like I, I, it's too complicated and, and frankly I can't ever tell a difference ever. You know, I mean I've, I've, I doubt that there's anyone who's like, tried more of these sorts of things than I have over the past like five years. It's like we talk about all the time. For the most part, it all works fine. And I cannot tell you the difference between something from PrimaLoft or Polar Tech or whatever. I don't know. I think it goes back to even Gore. I mean Gore because they were, they've been doing it the longest.

(35:48) They've done it the best in terms of just making sure people know that they are exist, even if they don't know what it does. And I always went to, so go Gore-Tex is relies on moisture vapor transfer. It's not actually breathable. There's no air permeability. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Like, you know, and, and, and it's like, even if you have something that is air permeable, if you have Goretex on it, the people are gonna buy the Gore-Tex. You know, this is my point. Even on waterproof shoes, it's like, do you even care that the shoes are waterproof or do you care that there's a Gore-Tex label on it? Well, that, like, the shoe one's interesting 'cause like a lot of the shoes I have aren't Gore-Tex anymore. 'cause all the shoe companies have their own membrane, so you know, it's Dan or Dry or it's Keen Dry or whatever.

(36:24) Yep. And it's like, and they all look exactly the same to me when I, you can see the membrane in there. Yeah. Like that's, I mean, for all I know Gore-Tex sells it to them and they just call it what they want. I don't know how it works, you know? But, um, yeah, I think this even goes back to the outdoor research thing where it's a little, people are get so into like what could work or what, what people demand on the consumer side. And it's like, you know, 85% of what you sell is gonna be to some like, you know, guy just walking into an r e I and be like, oh, that looks kind of cool. Yeah. <laugh>. No, and it's so, I mean, PrimaLoft and Polar tech don't need to for some, I mean, other than, I guess because capitalism demands that they like move into new areas.

(36:59) Like they don't need to invent anything else. We're good. Like, we're fine. That's, yeah, that's a big one. And that's also back to the route to research thing is it's like, it's, it's all until you can kind of say we are claiming to have made something truly different. So something different to make. We, I guess, I guess, you know, it's hard un unless it, it, you're presented with it. Maybe it's impossible to imagine, but like, I, unless you are gonna come up with some kind of like biodegradable thing, uh, there we're, we, I think, I think we're there. Like, I think we've got what we need. Like you can't make jackets any lighter. Yep. You know, like, you can't, I guess, I guess you could have like some spray, like maybe an aerosol where you just spray yourself and now you're wearing a jacket. Like, I don't know what else you could do.

(37:39) So really short of, and I think biodegradable would be incredible. So short of something like that, like the next, the next big innovation has to, there no reason to innovate. It's fine. Like you've, you've done it, you've figured you cracked the code. Like, we're warm, we drive, I think it was in the nineties that a lot of these things were conceived of and invented, and there been some iterations since then, but there's nothing really new since then. Yeah. No, the next big, the the next big material breakthrough is on the green side of things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Yeah. We told that it's like any, I mean, everything from tech, it's like, people forget that. Like, we've only even had like technological innovation in the way in like consumer goods for like 70 years. Like for the most part, everything was always the same. And then like now space age, materials come in, but you kind of exhaust that pretty quick, like Right, right.

(38:21) You know, like the surfboard has looked exactly the same since 1982. <laugh>, you know, like, like there's no, like the material, like you can, you can put some new materials in it, uh, that, you know, maybe different kinds of foams and stuff like that, but like, they're no different, you know? And it's like the changes that we argue about with surfing are like minute. Nobody can even tell. So Aaron, there's a message for you, outdoor research, if you had just put out a press relief being like pre press release being like, you know, Hey, yeah, we're gonna have some mountain bike stuff too. We figured we should, you know, well, that honestly fine. I'd be like, okay, you know, like, or like people, people dig our branding, people dig our logo, people dig our colors. So we figured fuck it. You know, why not? Cool.

(38:54) We should add this. Instead of being like, well we're, we're bringing the thing that people want from outdoor research. Like, I don't who was asking who called you up? Like, or like, or some shit. You know, like, like I'm helping out, I'm helping a friend with his, I do copywriting for my friend. What do company and like, they get a little cagey if I'm like, try to try to talk shit. It's like, you know what, who ca like, you know, talk shit. Uh, let me, lemme talk, let me, let me, you know, if outdoor retailer or outdoor researchers just like, you think Zumi is good, well you're fucking idiot and here's why. And like, whatever. And it makes stuff up like pit viper's so good at this sort of thing. Like just have a brand, like have an actual, like right. Pump up the rest of your life.

(39:28) Like, we are the best at this and now we're gonna be the best at this because we're already the best at these other things. These other guys, these, these cycling brands just do well. Like, we know you, we know what you're doing. We know that you're just like, uh, well me too. You know? So at least, at least like have a, at least you know, like I would, I would stand, be like, I own a parapet vipers. They're not very good, but they're, they're like social media shit. Social media is so funny to me. So good and go on point that it's like, I'll support that. And, you know, like I would do the same with like, regular clothes, you know, like if you wanna make a company that's all about like, just shitting on Patagonia or whatever for, because you think it's funny. I'll, I, I'd look into that.

(40:03) You know, it's, it's not a new playbook either, by the way. I mean, why do people like, relate, you know, to Nike and these brands who, like, not that they talk shit, but it's like the, the people who assert themselves and make you like, resonate with the brand are the ones you wanna go buy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So anyway. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. All right. Well that's all I got for today. You have any, uh, any parting thoughts? Don't buy the new Land Cruiser. Just don't, don't if don't do that. Don't. Okay. Why not? I mean, I just, there's, you know, another article on Outside Magazine about how you should buy the New Land Cruiser and I just like, I'm just like sickened by the concept. Like, who wrote it? Who wrote the article? Well, you know, who wrote it? <laugh>. And it's not even about, like, I don't even care about that.

(40:40) I can't read it. I don't, I've exhausted my free limit, you know, but like, I, I don't need to, it's just, it just like, it's all over every, every possible outdoor site about the new Land Cruiser. And it's like, first of all, they discontinued the Land Cruiser like two years ago. It's not even like, it's been a long time. Like it's not, it's not like it's been 50 years since there was a Land Cruiser. It's like, it went away. It was gone for a year. Now it's back and it looks different. And it's like, who gives a shit? It's the, it's like, okay, it looks kind of angular. It looks a little more futurey. Okay. It's got more, oh, more capabilities. Great. 'cause the land cruise before could climb, could drive from here to Mars, you know, like it doesn't need, it didn't need to be more capable.

(41:17) And it's like, it still costs a shit ton. It still gets horrible gas mileage. It doing nothing for anyone. We don't need this. Nobody needs this. Like, just, can we just stop doing this? Like, I'm just tired of it. Also just, you know, Toyota, just stop, stop it with the, how's going on in Tacoma land? Have you had any, uh, any? Um, no, I don't. I just, it's, I, I, I, this shit used to be cool and then everybody has it and everybody wants it and everybody does it and it just cheapens it and it makes it, my last trip, I, I was on, you know, like where I, I'm Dr. You drive, drive over this little mountain pass and there's a million little dispersed campsites right off the highway that you could, a Prius could handle. There's 30 feet from the road. These is nice.

(41:56) Same thing on the east side, everywhere it's, and it's like all of those are filled with tacos that are all jacked up with like overland equipment and rooftop tents and all this sort of shit. And you're like, dude, I, I can ridden a bike to that or whatever. It's just right there. It's off the road. And then I go actual off-roading to where I like to go camp. It's like a full-size truck or two. None of these like, toy things where people are, you know, it's like, I'll only see those in the parking lots at the gas station and maybe, you know, maybe they were there for one night and they went way deep into Nevada. Yeah, totally. You know, maybe, but it's still just, I'm just tired of it and it's like, I don't need to be like, I, I hate that every article is like, look at how great the new Land Cruiser is.

(42:33) Why can't there be one that's like, we didn't need this. Like, don't, that's what I'm saying, just ignore it. Like why, what what's, what's the, where's the harm in that? Like, I, I mean, AJ does, we don't really, actually, maybe I'll write about that. We don't really do like daily web articles anymore, so I don't have a platform for it, but it's like, maybe that's a new, uh, regular column in aj, you know, how haman's, uh, what not to buy. Don't buy this thing. I just think, I mean, I I I don't do it. It's gnarly. 'cause like, you know, so many dudes are gonna be so excited about it and think I'm a total asshole for saying it, but Yeah, but that's, I just don't see the point. No one's point. I think that's of what I'm getting at, like, in terms of like what we talked about and I feel like this is where we're at least backing up what we say we're gonna do.

(43:09) Because like, you made the point a few weeks ago, there's like nine things to talk about in the outdoor industry, and I get it, you guys gotta build a million internet clicks or whatever it is, the metrics you need to hit. But I wanna be honest about the stuff that's out there. I don't think people are being honest if it's just sort of like, no, no, I don't think people are being honest either. And frankly, if I saw that the new land cruise came out and it was like, oh wow, look, it has a, it has a standard, has center and rear locking discs that's, that's new. That's great. And told you about it. You went out and bought it. I'd feel like such a jerk that, oh my God, he, he just spent like $65,000 on this thing. Ugh. I'd feel really bad about it. Like, I can't, I can't imagine like pushing something like that on people that you know, you know, they don't need it. Like anyone who wants to buy that probably already has a four by four. Don't do it with Justin Hausman. That's the, uh, there you go. Just don't do it. Sounds like a winner. That sounds like a winner. <laugh>. All right, we'll get off our soapbox for the day. We'll be back next week to complain about more things that are stupid. <laugh> tell you what else

Justin (44:04):

Than not do <laugh>

Colin (44:06):

Happy be Friday. Uh, if you wanna be featured in a future mailbag episode, we got our first mailbag up this week. We're gonna do more. Justin and I are gonna do one again in the future. Please send some questions, comments to my rock maybe. Do you like comas? Do you please do you like the new Land Cruiser? Please take, take me down a peg please. West Seiler. Anybody send us some emails? Anybody take me down Or you like pickleball please? Oh, I want to hear about Pickleball, please. You wanna challenge me to pickleball, right? Actually, I wanna know why Pickleball keeps getting featured in outdoor media. That's what I want to know. So send us anything over my rock We end up emails. We'll do a whole episode that is just answering your emails. So send them over, uh, for Justin Hausman. I'm Colin, true. We'll see you next week. The rock fight is a production of Rock Fight L L c fucking

Speaker 1 (44:48):

Rock Fight, rock Fight.

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