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The Best MTB Baggie Shorts + Rationale Mexican Lager (Gear & Beer!)

Today on THE ROCK FIGHT it's the pairings that matter most... GEAR & BEER!

What kind of shorts do you wear when you go mountain biking? Straight spandex bibs? Jorts? Whatever you have lying around?

Today Justin and Colin talk about their mountain biking preferences while reviewing two outdoor brand entries in the cycling apparel space.

The Rab Cinder Crank Shorts and the Outdoor Research Freewheel Ride Shorts.

Then THE ROCK FIGHT's in house Cicerone (aka Justin) pairs the perfect post activity beverage to go with these shorts: a Rationale Mexican Lager.

Because that's what you get here on Gear & Beer... the pairings that matter most!

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Episode Transcript

Colin (00:08):

Welcome to the rock plate where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head, and today we are back with another piece of gear and another beer. That's right. It's your weekly dose of gear and beer. I'm Colin. True. I spent over 20 years working for brands and makers in the outdoor industry and

Justin (00:28):

I am Justin Housman Ma, I'm a journalist, professional gear reviewer, senior editor to Venture Journal certified beer expert. And I'm going to throw it on my master's degree title there. So you already did that. I'll start using that. You want to say it

Colin (00:42):

A couple more times or you want to brag some more?

Justin (00:45):

What are you doing? I don't want to brag. I'd like to purge that from my memory than I did that. Getting your master's? Yeah, but I did that for some idiotic reasons, so now I'm going to start using it. Justin Almond ma baby.

Colin (00:54):

Alright, well today we're going to be reviewing a piece of gear the way you would expect gear to be reviewed here on the rock fight. We don't talk about stack height geometry or with underfoot, especially not today. Unless we do.

Justin (01:03):


Colin (01:04):

We do. Unless we do.

Justin (01:05):

Unless we do, but

Colin (01:06):

We don't unless we do. We talk about the experience, our likes and our dislikes and then we take that piece of gear or in this case apparel and pair it with the perfect post activity beverage. Because Justin, ladies and gentlemen, not only does he have a Master of Arts, master of Arts,

Justin (01:21):


Colin (01:21):

Of Arts, master of Arts, he's also a cone. He likes certified tests. He likes standardized testing.

Justin (01:26):

Cone of Arts, bring back the SATs. Oh,

Colin (01:29):

How dare you. Which is a certified beer expert. You can look it up. It is a real thing. It really is. So the bottom line is this is where you'll get the pairings that matter most. Gear and beer. And Justin, what gear and what beer are we reviewing today?

Justin (01:44):

Well, we are going to talk a little bit about mountain bike. A pair roll. Yeah, we have a couple. We both have the same pair of shorts. We each have our own pair. We don't trade off pair the same pair

Colin (01:58):

We've been preparing for this episode for months. We just keep mailing 'em back and forth.

Justin (02:01):

Colin could never fit into my Seve. 30 ones

Colin (02:05):

You 31?

Justin (02:06):

No, I used to be in 30 solid 30 twos. Although the outdoor research ones are 30 fours and I got all mad when I got 'em. I'm like, what? But they actually fit anyway. So we're both talking and frankly I don't remember the model names, but we have a pair of shorts from Rob Rab, Rob

Colin (02:25):

The RAB Senders, senders

Justin (02:28):

And Outdoor research. But then also generally speaking, we're going to cover our other favorite stuff that we like to wear while mountain biking, which are kind of talk about what's cool, what's not, what's our vibe and what is not and why and all that good stuff. And then for beer wise, we're going with another non-alcoholic options. The rationale Mexican lager and Rationale is a newish player in the, I guess everybody's kind of a newish player in the non-alcoholic beer market. But they sent us some stuff last month and we've been waiting until we finished with our 10 barrel and now we're moving on to that

Colin (03:05):

Little pallet cleanser from the moving a little

Justin (03:07):

Pallet cleanser. We've had four weeks of a big ass. I like to big ass beers, hoppy and strong or happy and strong if you want. And yeah, rationale hooked us up. So they gave us a variety, but we're doing with the Mexican lager today, which was my favorite of the varieties that they sent. And it's kind of lager weather. It's all nice out.

Colin (03:27):

It is nice out. Before we talk about our mountain bike apparel, a couple of housekeeping items. We want you to sign up for Rock Fights newsletter if you haven't yet because you'll like it. I'm telling you, you're going to like it.

Justin (03:39):

Satisfaction is guaranteed

Colin (03:41):

True. Yeah, if it's not, you can just unsubscribe, I guess.

Justin (03:44):

Yeah, if you're not fully satisfied, we can just go ahead and purge the words from your memory. We have that. We'll come

Colin (03:50):

Over to your house.

Justin (03:51):

Yeah, it's going to be, it's painful and awkward, but we can actually remove the memory of you reading the newsletter from your head. So we will do that if you're not satisfied.

Colin (04:01):

This is the new 2024 version of Total Recall

Justin (04:04):

Kind of.

Colin (04:06):

And then secondly to all of our new listeners, welcome to the Rock Fight. Welcome to Gear and Beer. Please click that follow button on Apple or Spotify or whatever podcast app you are listening to us on.

Justin (04:16):

Well, regardless of what you listen to us on, we want to hear from you. We want you to tell us about your favorite gear and your favorite beer. We would love to pick a fight with you. You want to pick a fight with rock Fight, we'll pick a fight with you, send your suggestions and feedback to My rock and we will read them and we'll kind of play it by ear whether or not we want to engage. But try it out. Send us an email. But yeah, give us some suggestions. We'd love to hear from what maybe you got a favorite beer and you're curious if other people are digging it or we haven't covered a piece of gear that you like and that you want to hear our brand of Rockness talk about. Let us know.

Colin (04:55):

There you go. All right, man. Well I guess I was going to say let's get into the gear, but because that's the name of the show, but

Justin (05:01):


Colin (05:02):

Let's get into the apparel. That doesn't work.

Justin (05:04):

Apparel, it doesn't work. Apparel counts as gear, kind of that think it's

Colin (05:07):

Gear for your body.

Justin (05:08):


Colin (05:09):

It's gear you can wear.

Justin (05:10):

Well for some reason. So you have my name first here on the outline. I do. What do you want me to talk about?

Colin (05:18):

Well, I know, do you want to talk about your general history with mountain bike apparel? Do you want to kind of just dive right into the products we got?

Justin (05:24):

Okay. Okay. Yeah, let's come at this from come. Let's start big and go small. We're going to start big and then go small. Okay. Okay. Alright, so Ahorre,

Colin (05:37):

You're a whore.

Justin (05:38):

That's A-B-H-O-R-R.

Colin (05:41):

Last week you were a porn star this week you're a whore. What are you going to be next week, Justin?

Justin (05:46):

I ahorre whore spandex on the outside of my clothing I do wear liner shorts, but generally speaking I'm not a big fan of Jockey sort of fits, if that makes sense.

Colin (05:59):

Jockey fits like jockey, like tiny

Justin (06:02):

Whites? No, like jock, jockish, sporty. I'm not into that. I'm also not into the overly baggy thing. I don't want that I don't like.

Colin (06:11):

But you're not into it from visual lens or from the way it feels?

Justin (06:16):

What is it? Well, I hate overly baggy stuff for how it feels. I don't understand the point when I'm riding my bike, I don't want swish, swish, swish from the extra yards of fabric on my thighs. I like shorter shorts. I'm a big short in seam guy generally speaking, but that includes bikes. I guess that would be different if I was riding and deserty rot stuff or there might be sharp things trying to grab my knee caps, but that doesn't really happen. So I like do think happens, happens in the desert. I don't know. Well, okay, why are mountain bike pants or shorts so fricking baggy? No, it

Colin (06:49):

Purpose. It's a great question. No, this is an excellent

Justin (06:51):

Purpose question. I assume it's for knee protection from getting scratches or whatever. I don't know, but I don't like it. So yeah, I want to wear something that's as close as possible to something I would just wear around town. One, I don't want to have extra drawers just full of mountain bike clothes. Two because I often ride my bike and then go town, go to town, go get a beer or lunch or just whatever, go pick up my kids from school after a ride. If I don't have much time, I don't want to have to change clothes into something that doesn't look like I'm sponsored by Fox Racing or whatever. I don't want it. And aesthetically, I don't really like how it looks for the most part. I'm not a huge fan of the designs of most mountain bike clothes. So I mean if I was a cross country Greyhound and I was trying to set kms all the time, yeah, I'd probably wear spandex.


I mean spandex feels terrific. I mean when I used to ride road bikes, I mean it feels pretty fantastic to ride around in spandex. I get that. It's just not for me. My aesthetic is jorts and a flannel and maybe that makes me a hipster. I don't know. But that's what I like to wear. I like to wear performance jorts. I like my rips. I like my hand up, but I also will ride and I have a pair of doers that I like cut the legs, cut the legs off, just regular kind of performance denim. I love those. That's kind of my go-to. So I will wear mountain bike shorts occasionally. But yeah, I'm a much bigger fan of the more everyday style of clothes.

Colin (08:22):

Do you feel like it runs into, I mean if you're wearing a ripton or something that's actually designed specifically to bike in, it's a stretch denim or whatever, but if I had to throw on my cutoff like Levi five oh ones or whatever, I do tend feel like I run into where the seams are and the thickness of the, that's not great, right?

Justin (08:42):

Not great, but you can also, I mean unless you're riding a really long distance you can kind of get away with it. I went for a ride yesterday and just a regular pair of cool shorts. Cool.

Colin (08:51):

Still outdoor brand.

Justin (08:52):

KUHL. Yeah, but I mean they're just like shorts and what was exactly the same as anything else, my favorite brand of late is called Curious Creatures, and I wouldn't say it's geared toward women. They make one pair of men's shorts and I think they're going to release a pair of men's pants pretty soon, but their sizing is still in women sizing. So I had to calculate what number am I if I'm a 32 waist and I forget what that is, maybe a 12, I can't remember. I don't know. I don't how do that conversion, but those things are great. They're really stretchy but they're short in sea. They feel fantastic to wear. They feel like they're very consciously designed and they don't really look like anything else.

Colin (09:35):

You had 'em on when we were mountain biking last week and they looked really

Justin (09:37):

Good. It's pretty unique, right? Way shorter in seam. The pockets are in a place that makes sense. Very stretchy material, super comfortable. I wear 'em to sleep a lot. If they're fresh out of the wash, they're great to, I don't know, they're just really soft. I love those and I love their vibe. I love the brand is really cool. They don't make much stuff. I also wear a cotton shirt that they make, like a long sleeve cotton shirt. It's not even performance, it's just cotton and it's awesome. It's great. So I'm much more likely to wear that sort of stuff, but I live in a place where it doesn't really get really hot and it doesn't really get really cold so I can sort of get away with that kind of thing.

Colin (10:11):

Yeah, I was kind of in the same boat of, well, I mean I was more of a spandex guy. I think the comment you made though about, and I did a lot of mountain bike racing when I first got into mountain biking, but your comment about the big baggy shorts, I never really got it and it was less because I was racing, but it's because it's a dynamic activity versus road cycling. You put a roading kid on, you can wear kind of whatever you want on a road bike because you just got to plant yourself into a saddle. And yeah, if you're climbing you might pop up, but it's very simple and the movements are really simple in terms of how you engage in your saddle mountain, biking you out of your saddle all the time. You're moving your bike around underneath you and there's opportunities for that big baggy pair of shorts to really grab the saddle and be

Justin (10:51):

Annoyed. Many, exactly. How many times have you grabbed is the front of the saddle called something? I mean I almost want to call it the saddle horn, but that's obviously a horse saddle, but how many times the crotch grabbed on the front of the saddle as you're getting on or getting off? Hate it. I've fallen off the bike because of that's happened because that's happened before. It's

Colin (11:05):

The worst. It lends itself to why actually spandex as a standalone bike kit makes more sense for mountain biking than it does PI for anything else because it removes all of that extra fabric from between your legs. I did, so after my racing sort of career or whatever ended, I started wearing baggies and I got whatever the fox baggies and it was that same thing. It was awful. I dabbled in the jorts. I like ripton, the rip tins I've had. They're a little snug. I have some thick quads, so they are, I get made fun of by my children if I wear my ripton, let's put it that way. The stretched denim. You look really good in your ripton.

Justin (11:42):

Yeah, I did

Colin (11:44):

You have the body of those 12 foot tall a skeletons we see at Halloween?

Justin (11:48):

Yeah, that's based off me and I have hollow bones like a bird does. I'm very so

Colin (11:53):

Collecting royalties from Home Depot. Yeah,

Justin (11:56):

Well I got a few more months before when I'm off work and then October comes around, I got to get out there on the lawn, see someone's yard.

Colin (12:04):

But my first good pair of baggies were pour a little out for spo. They had the thing called the am short and it was a stretch woven to your point, just like you said, shorter, right? A little more thigh, but just kind of looked cool that you would wear these around. But then KPO goes out of business. So then the last year or so I've been wearing a short called by Orn, not called the Mission Short, and that's exactly what you describing. It's a stretch woven, you can throw it on and repair shorts and it just look like shorts. But they perform really, really well on a bike and it's, it's been a

Justin (12:36):

Great one. And you know what else is great about Ripton and let me make sure it is hand up. You've heard of that brand

Colin (12:41):

Right hand up? I don't

Justin (12:42):

Think I have. It is hand up hand. They mostly make gloves but they also make, I think they're called hand up gloves, but they make bike apparel too and it's, it's not necessarily rock material in the sense that it's not exactly made to last forever. It's kind on the cheaper spectrum. I see. The nice thing about that is that I can, as long as they, oh yeah, look at the George. As long as they're clean, I just wear those around town. Those look like

Colin (13:05):

Regular George.

Justin (13:06):

Exactly. But they're super stretchy. But I would never wear any of the mountain bike shorts I have around town ever. I mean if I coming back from a ride, I'm going to grab a beer with somebody. Sure. But the reptons, the Curious creatures, those hand up, they're just part of my regular shorts cycle, so I'm saving money. So the

Colin (13:26):

Two though that we are really evaluating with kind of all those backstories from both of us is the RAB and the outdoor research.

Justin (13:33):

Outdoor research and the rab. Yes. And both of us were sort of confused as to why either RAB or outdoor research would enter the mountain bike market other than we have very poor understanding of capitalism and what it takes to survive as a brand when you're making things. So they probably need to expand and I understand that, but we were a little bit surprised, but I would say pleasantly surprised with the quality of the product I would say.

Colin (13:59):

Yeah. One of the first things that you and I ever talked about was that new cider line from RAB about a year ago when they moved into it and Tim Fish, who was their head of design, he came on and talked to me a little bit about it last fall. Is he mad? No, he was great actually. If he had heard the episode sooner, he said he would've reached out. He loved having the conversation about it.

Justin (14:19):

Was he British?

Colin (14:20):

He is British.

Justin (14:21):

Does he pronounce it RAB or Rob? I

Colin (14:23):

Think he said Rab,

Justin (14:24):

That's our house style guide is rab. Even if it's not, that's our house style guide.

Colin (14:28):

But he had explained like, listen, we want to build off of our outdoor heritage and there's plenty of people who are mountain biking who do all the other stuff that we do and we want to be the solution for that brand

Justin (14:38):

Loyal, brand loyal folks.

Colin (14:40):

I was chatting on email with Alex Laver who's from outdoor research. He's their RD and sustainability team. I got to work with him a little bit when I was at Polar Tech. He didn't have quite as clear of a, well not quite as clear, he didn't have quite the insight on what was going on on the market front. I was kind of curious where are they finding uptick with the outdoor research mountain bike line. But I mean I got to think it's the same kind of thing, right? It's like if you're an outdoor research person, you're an outdoorsy person now if you're looking for mountain bike clothes, it's like it kind of speaks to you. Maybe that something that a more bike specific brand isn't going to. I think it's what these guys are relying

Justin (15:13):

On. I don't know if that's accurate, but Okay. I'm sure it's accurate. I'm not saying that your interpretation is inaccurate, but I mean I don't really know if they're providing something, the bike specific brand, but okay.

Colin (15:27):

I think we should have either Tim or Alice come on down the road. I'd love to talk to these guys I think because it is an interesting, you and I live these lifestyles and I don't really have a problem kind of bouncing back and forth between cycling brands or outdoor brands or whatever. Mostly just want a good product. And we'll get into the TER in a minute, but I guess what were your initial impressions of the RAB cinder and the outdoor research shorts knowing that you are a jorts guy

Justin (15:51):

But my first thought, oh, they're UPF. That's nice. My first thought was just that they're really, really lightweight. It feels really nice to the touch. They looked really long, but they're only a 12 inch in seam. I guess the idea with some of these is that the waistline is higher. That's got to be kind of the thing. But they feel really nice. They have the elastic straps on the side to kind of cinch 'em up. They're really, really lightweight and you kind of instantly forget that you're wearing them I guess, which is kind of the best thing you could say. I don't care about pockets on bike shorts. I almost always have a hip pack and I don't like to put anything in my pockets. So I guess it had pockets. I don't really remember them, but they felt really nice on and they came up above the knee, which is all I asked for in a mountain bike short. I don't need bgy smugglers, you know what I mean? I don't need to be wearing a speedo or anything, but as long as it's above the knee I'm happy. And these came up above the knee, so that was cool. Oh, I should also say I rode much faster and jumped away higher because of these shorts too. They're

Colin (16:52):

140 bucks. They're not cheap. I will say though, I had the same impression as you and I pulled them out. I'm like, these things are massive. I'm not going to wearing these. They look huge and had the exact opposite experience. The second I put them on, because they have this even with a pair of bibs or liner shorts underneath, they have this kind of really snug, I dunno, there's a streamline. Yeah, they

Justin (17:13):

Fit well. Yeah, they're, they're nice athletic cut. I mean apparently you have thunder thighs, but they felt pretty nice, felt

Colin (17:21):

Very nice. I thought there was the perfect hybrid between what? A pair of just wearing bike shorts, like span bike shorts wore and wearing baggies. It was tight in all the right places. Say that

Justin (17:29):

Again, repeat that.

Colin (17:31):

It's like a hybrid of what wearing spandex is like and wearing baggies is like, it's like it's snug where you want it to be snug is you're not going to have that saddle grab we were talking about, but it's also like if you go to get a beer afterwards, you're not like, Hey, here I am in my bike bibs. Please don't look at me.

Justin (17:50):

I didn't fall or have anything weird happen to me at all. But I would say I don't have any concern about their durability. I don't remember if they had any. They have a little venting on the back. There's

Colin (18:02):

Venting on the sides. It was

Justin (18:03):

On a zipper. Oh, that's right. It did. That was nice. I do also remember thinking they felt relatively cool and I will probably wear these more often as the weather warms up. That one downside to jorts is they don't breathe particularly well. So if it's brutally hot, I'll probably wear something. I'll probably wear these when it gets really, really hot.

Colin (18:21):

The outdoor research ones are the free wheel short. They're 115 bucks. They're a little more, they're a

Justin (18:26):

Little bit more turbo I would say. A little bit more aggress aggressively. Mountain bike oriented.

Colin (18:33):

They kind of feel a little more akin to some of the old fox pairs. I've had fit way better, the fit on the most. Very good.

Justin (18:40):

They feel like every other, not in a bad way. The RABs felt like, oh these are lighter, these are a little bit smoother. Something's happening here. They've put some thought into differentiation. These just feel like the, or ones just feel like really wellmade bike short. They feel pretty similar to most other bike shorts I've had.

Colin (18:57):

I know you said you're not a pocket guy. I don't tend to wear a pack, so I usually put my phone or something in my pocket and I really like the pockets on the outdoor research probably was my favorite feature on them head to head. We will rate 'em in a minute here, but I probably like the RAB more because of what you just described. They are lighter, they feel more like I think if you're listening to this and if you've listening to the show, you recognize that like, hey listen, we like the feeling of natural fibers more than synthetics and the rab, whatever fabric they use

Justin (19:23):

We're fancy.

Colin (19:24):

It's true.

Justin (19:26):

Collin's wearing a silk robe right now. You can't tell but

Colin (19:30):

Can you see my Ascot? Can you see my, what's the fucking

Justin (19:32):

Pipe? Yeah, he does have a Ascot.

Colin (19:34):

What's the cigarette holder?

Justin (19:36):

It's called a cigarette holder.

Colin (19:37):

Oh, did you see why cigarette holder?

Justin (19:39):

Yeah, of course I can see you man. It's zoom. I can see you

Colin (19:42):

We're doing gear and cognac today, right?

Justin (19:44):

Oh my God. Should we? No. I don't know if I really like cognac, but I like that idea very much.

Colin (19:50):

So anyway, that were my preference between the two. Do I like them as much as the or I like the length of my or knots Kind back to your point about with the creature, what's the

Justin (19:59):


Colin (20:00):

Creature? Curious creatures? It feels more like a pair of shorts. I would just wear around the OR nots do, but I probably think I'm going to ride in the rabbit synder almost more than anything this summer is probably my guess.

Justin (20:10):

Do you take into account if I was going to ride a trail that had I was concerned I might fall or that had big features in it, I'd probably wear the outdoor research ones now. I don't actually think that the slight difference in weight, the outdoor research ones to me feel like they're probably more durable.

Colin (20:28):

They probably are. I do feel

Justin (20:29):

Like a little bit stiff, stiffer. I feel like if I'm in eating shit, I'd probably wear those because I feel like the RAB ones might either not protect me as well or they might actually rip.

Colin (20:40):

That's a really interesting point. I wouldn't have thought of that, but you're right.

Justin (20:42):

I think about that.

Colin (20:43):

If I were wearing the RABs and all of a sudden I'm in the biggest rock garden of all time.

Justin (20:47):

Yeah, remember that trail, the trail that we rode the first day and slow that you hated? That I really liked I have more technical ability on a bike than you do was the one that was all that really sharp volcanic rock. Yeah. And remember that one time you were crying and you were like, I can't go any further and I had kill your bike and mine. You said you were

Colin (21:04):

Going to talk about that.

Justin (21:06):

No, I didn't say

Colin (21:07):

That. No, we agreed. No,

Justin (21:09):


Colin (21:09):


Justin (21:10):


Colin (21:10):

You were holding me right? It was

Justin (21:13):


Colin (21:14):

And I said, can you please not tell anybody

Justin (21:15):

About that? It was a nice moment. Oh, that's what you meant. I thought, okay, I'm sorry. I am so sorry. That's too bad we can't edit this out. I'm really sorry. But that in retrospect, had you fallen, if you had to choose one pair of shorts to fall on the outdoor research, really wicked, sharp rocks, outdoor research. Big time. But I mean they're both pretty good. They're both pretty good. Now why you would seek them out? I don't really know.

Colin (21:39):

Well, that's a good segue right into sort of our kind of speedometer category conversation. The bike apparel category to me just feels fucked. There's just so much

Justin (21:50):

Stuff too much. There's too much. I mean you're picking an aesthetic. You're picking like do I want have fast house written on my shirt or do I want have Troy Lee written on my shirt?

Colin (21:59):

So I went on Google yesterday, just did a shopping results of bike shorts and I saw everything from $13 to $200 and some of that was baggy. Some of that was spandex, shorts, some of those liner shorts. There's a lot of variety there, but it's a huge, huge chasm there in terms of what you can spend on this stuff. I think the, and on mountain biking specifically, road biking feels a little more dialed in. It's such a vain sport, right? If you have the money, you're going to buy Rafa, you're going to buy a really high end thing because you want to show up a certain way to the group ride

Justin (22:28):

And all that kind of stuff. Yeah, you can't get your bike off the back of your Land Rover defender and then put on some castelli

Colin (22:36):

Janky, REI.

Justin (22:37):

Yeah, no

Colin (22:39):

Downhill jersey.

Justin (22:40):

You'll get laughed right out of the craft coffee, espresso, joint, pull that shit. I will

Colin (22:44):

Not give you a croissant, sir. No,

Justin (22:46):

You're not going to be in our Peloton. Not with that. Not with that Sierra trading post bullshit or whatever that you're wearing. No way.

Colin (22:52):

But I think, and I think we're not that atypical when it comes to mountain biking of saying the things that we will or pursue riding in on any given day. You could be out there in a pair of rip tins or your regular, your homemade cutoff shorts or you could decide to wear the RABs or the outdoor research depending on however you're feeling in that day. And I'll tell you what, most days, especially

Justin (23:11):

Where I live, honestly mostly what's clean before I'm being honest is usually just what's clean,

Colin (23:14):

What smells the best is going to

Justin (23:17):

Get or is already so filthy it doesn't matter. Which is kind of how it usually goes actually. Like, well this is already muddy, I might as well wear this

Colin (23:24):

Again and 90% of my rides are probably about an hour, like a daily get off and ride for an hour and I will guarantee you I'll have a cotton T-shirt on.

Justin (23:32):

I'm trying to project a vibe of, I'm just having some fun here. You could pass me if you want to. I don't have a watch on, I'm not on Strava. I am just out here riding my bike and I don't want competition weirdness or anything. I want to just project like, hey, I'm just out having a good time.

Colin (23:50):

What's rate these things? What are we rating the

Justin (23:53):

You go first. I feel like I always go first. I

Colin (23:54):

Don't like it. So the senders, they're very close. I'm going to go probably like a 7.4 for the cinder and like a 6.9 for the outdoor research. I feel like I'll wear the cinder more, but I did really like the outdoor research.

Justin (24:11):

Yeah, they're both good.

Colin (24:12):

If you're going to take the whole speedometer category, I mean I think you could dock both of them down probably two or three points because we have a lot of baggy bike shorts in the world. This is two outdoor brands who are now who I've entered the category kind of just bring in more

Justin (24:25):

Stuff. Yeah, I'm going to go straight seven on the RABs and you know what, I'm going to go 7.1 on the RABs. I'm going to go 6.9 on the Oh, we

Colin (24:35):


Justin (24:36):

On the, oh did we? Is that what you said? Yeah. So they're good. They're super good, super capable. They're just as good as any other shorts I've ever had. So don't take that the wrong way throughout.

Colin (24:46):

They're better than a lot of other shorts I've had. I have a couple of pair of socks, shorts they crush. The cinder are just a scot more comfortable in terms of the fabric choices and things like that. And I actually like and they fit a little bit more, but yeah. Anyway. Alright, mountain bike shorts.

Justin (25:02):

Who needs them

Colin (25:04):

Just ride naked everybody. Jesus. Alright, let's turn our attention down to after the activity at the break, the put in the trailhead, we're going to crack open the cooler in a vibe of beverage so we can celebrate our wins and losses in the back country. Let's have a beer. Alright, we've gotten back to the car after a long hot ride up Oats Peak on the California Central Coast and in this very specific example, we've been out there wearing our raw baggies, maybe an Eddie Bauer t-shirt or Afraid Guardians of the Galaxy. I don't know.

Justin (25:33):

Yeah, just pull some

Colin (25:34):


Justin (25:35):

Off top of your head. Yeah,

Colin (25:37):

We pull out some chips and open up the tailgate. We sit down and reflect on the sweet flowy descent and we open the cooler and pull out a rationale Mexican lager. Justin, why is this the pairing that matters most at the mountain bike Trailhead?

Justin (25:49):

God damn refreshing. It really is. I mean that's very, very, very refreshing. That's why. That's really it. And you know what, if you finish your ride at noon, like the day that we're hypothetically talking about, you don't necessarily, even on vacation, you don't necessarily really want to start crushing alcohol at that point. Maybe you do, but we don't all the time Sometimes but not all the time. And so maybe you want to have a couple of frosties in the back of, I dunno, like a Ford Maverick or something like that. They bust out a rationale.

Colin (26:19):

So what do we know about Rationale? What's the deal? It's brewed in Windsor, California. I don't even know where Windsor is.

Justin (26:25):

Yeah, Windsor's up by me kind of. But I think they're based in San Diego but they grew up here, which probably means they have some sort of, I dunno why they would do that unless they have some kind of partnership or relationship with a big brewery up here. There's no reason not to brew it down there. But yeah, they've been around since, I think they started in 2021. I think they released their first beer in 2022. Co-founders are Jamie Faye and Wendy Pickett. I don't know a whole lot about them. Jamie Faye appears to surf because the about Us page, he has 'em sitting on a surfboard.

Colin (26:57):

There's some surf imagery on the can

Justin (26:59):

Too. Maybe giving a chaka. But yeah, cans. The art is awesome I think. I dunno what you would call that kind of modernist sort of, I don't even know. Artsy cool.

Colin (27:10):

Yeah, it's like it's almost made with construction paper layered in a way like an image. It's a very cool vibe.

Justin (27:15):

The way you say layer is so absolutely insane.

Colin (27:20):

This is a really joke

Justin (27:20):

Now were you in speech classes as a kid? When the kids were they it? What else was there? Lair, how do you, you're coming closer saying layer lair is where lions live. Like the lair of the wilded beasts, that's the word. That's not the same. Lair and layer are different words.

Colin (27:39):

We say layer, like you got

Justin (27:40):

A accent. It sounds like you're calling someone lair like whose name is Larry? I don't want

Colin (27:46):

To say why do I have to add syllable where I don't belong?

Justin (27:50):

Layer, there's a Y layer

Colin (27:52):

Layer that sounds, doesn't feel right. I think you're

Justin (27:54):

Wrong. That's how the word is pronounced. I don't think you're right. You're right. You would know would know better than me. I've

Colin (27:58):

Been saying it my whole

Justin (27:59):

Life so you are older than me anyway. Anyway. The cans look cool, very cans look great and you know what? It's a golden age for an alcoholic beers. I mean I wish to God there a

Colin (28:12):

Way to what going

Justin (28:13):

To do it where they don't all kind of taste the same. They still kind of all do, but it is a golden age for Nas. And also it would be nice if they were cheaper. I don't know why that matters to me.

Colin (28:24):

You feel like should cost less,

Justin (28:26):

Don't you?

Colin (28:27):

Yeah. Decaf should be less than regular coffee too.

Justin (28:30):

I don't know why. There's no good reason for that. I'm with you on that because I think you kind of know if you're drinking an NA beer it's because you'd rather have a beer, right?

Colin (28:40):

Typically this one's I would say normally I would say absolutely. I think we said the same thing when we had the athletic brewing conversation, but this one and I'm really excited to have it again. I've only had this one other time it was kind of hit the spot. I don't know. Maybe I would choose this one depending on, to your point in the middle of the day, that kind of thing. Yeah,

Justin (28:59):

I can't explain it, but I get NA beers fairly often at the pubs I go to. I'm always a little bit like, shouldn't this be at least a buck cheaper? And there's no reasoning behind that. It's like why would I, I guess because you're not going to get a buzz. I don't know. It's weird. It weird. It somehow seems like it should be cheaper

Colin (29:20):

Or is it, I like to have

Justin (29:22):

Alcoholics in the house.

Colin (29:23):

There's probably more processing. It's probably probably more expensive to make these and it is regular beer. You said you got to boil 'em off. There's a whole other extra

Justin (29:31):

Step, right? Exactly. Yeah. As far as I know, I mean unless they've figured out a new way to do it. You typically boil the alcohol off, so you're making a regular beer then you're boiling it off. So yeah, of course it's going to cost the same, right? I mean at that point hot waters are cheaper, which is cool. There's just sparkling water with hot flavoring in it. Should we

Colin (29:50):

Do a hot water eventually?

Justin (29:52):

I don't know. It's not really beer. It's just like a, I'll be like doing LaCroix doesn't make any sense.

Colin (29:57):

Alright, we should, we crack this

Justin (29:58):

Anyway, let's get into it. Let's do, yep three.

Colin (30:01):

Here we go. One

Justin (30:04):

It's got, has some cumin in it. It's got

Colin (30:08):

A, yeah, little Budweiser.

Justin (30:09):

Little cumin, little chili pepper. That's why it makes a Mexican lager has taco seed each. These cans has a one packet of Lowry's TAs, taco have

Colin (30:16):

Chunks of jalapeno. If you're around in here I

Justin (30:18):

Think, isn't that wild

Colin (30:20):

All. Here we go. God, it's refreshing. It's really good.

Justin (30:27):

It's really good.

Colin (30:28):

I don't really get that tea taste that you always talk about either.

Justin (30:30):

This one, I don't with this one, this one to me is the easily the best of the lagger nas I've had easily and that includes the big hitters, the ones that've been doing it forever, like Heineken or whatever. It's really good.

Colin (30:44):

It's really, really tasty

Justin (30:46):

And I would say that rationale is nice enough to send us a decent amount and I've given a few to other people and they all have the same reaction. Like holy shit, that's really good.

Colin (30:55):

Are these available nationwide? Do we know?

Justin (30:57):

I don't know. I don't know. They're available everywhere up here, but they are brewed in Windsor, which is Sonoma County, which is just like two counties north of me. Or actually really just one county north of me. So I can get 'em here, I think. But I see 'em a lot. I definitely see 'em a lot.

Colin (31:12):

They're fair amount. They're in a fair amount of places. They're all through the Intermountain West.

Justin (31:16):

Okay, good. Yeah. Well that makes sense. They're going to be going after the outdoorsy folks.

Colin (31:20):

Pennsylvania. Wow. Yeah, near Pittsburgh.

Justin (31:24):

Oh my god.

Colin (31:25):

Yeah, in Pittsburgh. Actually, Pennsylvania, the open road bottle shop in Pittsburgh, pa. There you go. Free ad for you. Open road bottle shop

Justin (31:31):

Now. Do you know that place? No. Colin, I assume you know everything in Pennsylvania.

Colin (31:34):

Yeah, I go back there. They're just like, Hey, he's back. No, Hey,

Justin (31:38):

Colin's back.

Colin (31:38):

That's actually the out of here. Colin,

Justin (31:41):

You think you're too good for us? You're not welcome.

Colin (31:43):

You think you're better than me?

Justin (31:46):

That was good. That was good. You can't say that that Well, if you're from the west coast, that's such an east coast thing to say.

Colin (31:52):

Well, you can say layers appropriately. I can say that. I think

Justin (31:54):

I win. Yeah, that's true actually. I'd rather be able to say, you think you're better than me. In a way that word isn't obvious that I

Colin (32:01):

Out here, it's like, Hey, do you think you're better than me?

Justin (32:03):

Hey, are you better than

Colin (32:05):

Me? I think they think they're better than me.

Justin (32:07):

Are you better than me? I kind of think I like it better than so I mean the athletic free wave is a bitch in IPA.

Colin (32:14):


Justin (32:14):

This to me is a better beer though. It's a better alcoholic beer experience. It doesn't have the weird tea flavoring that we talk about all the time.

Colin (32:22):

This does. You pour this in a glass and hand it to somebody or they don't know what the brand is. They're not looking at the

Justin (32:28):

Can. This has a pretty good chance of fooling somebody. You

Colin (32:31):

Think you're drinking a beer.

Justin (32:32):

Yeah. This is what I would give to somebody and I've done this, the classic bartender trick. When someone's hammered at your bar at a certain point they can't really fucking tell. So you just start giving 'em nas. But in the olden days, they could usually tell, I don't think somebody would be able to tell with this. It's like they've had 10 beers and you're like, you know what? Slow down give This one is good, man. Yeah, they're just like 8%. Be careful. They'd be like, okay,

Colin (32:53):

Whatcha going to rate it? We went high on the ab. I mean I'd

Justin (32:55):

Probably give the free of like a nine, but I mean I'm feeling 8.5. Even if I gave a higher rating to the freeway wave. You know what? It doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

Colin (33:04):

Yeah, you gave it an eight.

Justin (33:08):

Oh, okay, good. Then I would say this is an 8.5.

Colin (33:10):


Justin (33:12):

I would say this is my favorite non-alcoholic beer I've had in memory in recent memory. I'm

Colin (33:17):

Going to go right there. I'll just match you. That might be kind of boring, but I don't care at 85 makes sense. I will seek this out and buy this again and I don't

Justin (33:26):

Know about, I do feel compelled to say that there are other flavors they sent us. We're pretty good. But this is a standout, so don't necessarily expect, they sent us the West Coast IPA and maybe a hazy and they were totally fine. They were good. I drank them, I enjoyed them. But this is the one I would be like, oh, you got to try this one. This is the one I think will wow people more. So if all they have are the IPAs, get one. But this to me was a head and shoulders better than the IPAs.

Colin (33:55):

Alright, well summarize this episode of Gear and Beer. In our gear category we have the following mountain bike apparel items. We have the RAB cinder crank shorts, which I rated a 7.4 and Justin rated a 7.1. Then we had the outdoor research free wheels, which we both rated a 6.9. And then when you're looking to refresh yourself after you arrive, but hey, you got to drive home too. Well, the official C owner of the rock fight suggests that you should enjoy yourself with a frosty cold rationale Mexican lager, which we both rated an 8.5 on the gear and beer, beer scale,

Justin (34:29):

Man. Yeah, we did it

Colin (34:31):

Again. I think the streak's ever going to be broken where we don't do it.

Justin (34:35):


Colin (34:35):

You think it's going to be tough to keep going? It's kind like a winning streak in baseball

Justin (34:40):

Or something. I really, really hate to be the one to tell you this, but we are going to die someday

Colin (34:45):

After 67,852 episodes of Gear and Beer.

Justin (34:50):

Just me at like 95.

Colin (34:52):

What if we both died at the same time? Cracking open a beer on this podcast.

Justin (34:56):

That would be wild. That'd pretty great. That would be pretty, I don't think that would be, well, I don't know. It might be a pleasant way to go. Depends on how it's happening.

Colin (35:04):

Alright man. Lots of show for today.

Justin (35:06):


Colin (35:07):

What did you think of this edition of Gear and Beer? And do you have a suggestion for a future edition of Gear and Beer or do you simply dislike gear and beer? Send an email to My rock Let us know what you think. The Rock Fight's a production at Rock Fight LLC for Justin Hausman, I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening here to take us out. It's Krista Makes, he's one of the lead singers from Lesson Jake and he's here right now. He's going to sing the Rock Fight Fight song for you and we'll see you next time. Rock fighters rock fight.

Chris DeMakes (35:42):

We go into the rat bike where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pick picks that we find interesting. Black culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Bike, rock. Welcome to the.


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