The Switchback Post Mortem!

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Today we're dipping our toes back into the trade show world as Switchback and The Running Event show director Christina Henderson joins Colin to take analyze last month's inaugural Switchback Spring.

They talk about what worked, what didn't, how the standalone show will impact Switchback at TRE, and what the outdoor industry can expect next year in New Orleans.

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Episode Transcript:

Colin True

00:00:00.320 - 00:03:46.050

Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.

I'm Colin True and today Showpocalypse 2025 is back for one more day at least as Christina Henderson from Switchback comes by to talk about the show that just happened and the shows that will happen in the future.

But before we get to that, come back to the Rock Fight on Friday to hear what we learned while attending the Outdoor Market Alliance Media event this week in Denver. And hey Apple Podcast listeners. You know we'd love for you to leave us a review, rate the show and leave a written review on Apple Podcasts.

Then send us a screenshot of that review to myrockflightmail.com we'll send you a whole batch of Rockflight open container and the forthcoming Gear Abbey stickers. So get on top of that and stick around. We'll be right back. Today's episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by Lem's Shoes.

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Today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, who wants to share their love of hiking and we want to help them by uncovering all the different reasons we love to take the long walk, including the following. Number one because you know bear spray that's cheaper than a therapist. I don't really get that correlation, but I'm sure it's funny.

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And number five, this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking. All right, we're almost exactly one month removed from Switchback, and yet the conversation around the show persists.

Just this week, for example, I had two separate calls with two different brands, neither of whom attended Switchback. And before we hung up, they both asked me what I thought.

And obviously there are hours of recordings on this podcast with me talking about what I thought of Switchback, but they still wanted to talk to me about it. It's only been one year, and already the potential of the show has started to seep into the subconscious of the outdoor industry.

And while I believe that last month's event was an outright objective success, the real challenge will be next year in getting the show to stick around to the point where it's automatically penciled into everyone's calendar going forward.

So since it's been a month and the dust has pretty much settled, I invited Switchback show director Christina Henderson to come on the Rock Fight and take a look back at what worked when we were in Nashville and take a way too early look at what might be coming in 2026 in New Orleans. So welcome back to the Rock Fight, where today it's the Switchback post mortem with Christina Henderson. All right, it's been a minute.

It's been about a month, actually, almost to the day that. So we wanted to bring Switchbacks show director Christina Henderson back on the Rock Fight for a quick post trade show check in.

Welcome back to the show, Christina.

Christina Henderson

00:03:46.610 - 00:03:48.770

Thanks, Colin. Happy to be here.

Colin True

00:03:50.000 - 00:04:04.240

I do want to ask you, when last time we saw each other, we were in Nashville, what was your resting heart rate for the five days before the show started? During the show, did it fall below 100 or were you just elevated the whole time?

Christina Henderson

00:04:04.800 - 00:04:29.819

I believe that I was pretty heightened most of the week. And my sleep score, that was my big thing. I kind of monitor my sleep score.

My sleep was poor, but that's all kind of part of it, and I wouldn't have it any other way. You're just kind of living in this heightened and state, seeing everyone. Excitement is high. So, yeah, you know, a little elevated heart rate's okay.

Colin True

00:04:30.539 - 00:04:37.418

Did it feel like after the first day, like the second day, Was there a bit of a, like, exhale moment during the show or. It wasn't until the show's over.

Christina Henderson

00:04:38.379 - 00:05:03.790

Definitely an exhale once the trade show opens. That's a big moment. You know, so much is building into that. You kind of Kick off with the education and there's an exhale there.

But then when the trade show opens and everyone's doing their thing and having meetings, we can kind of take a deep breath and just talk to people and kind of network ourselves.

Colin True

00:05:04.110 - 00:05:16.590

All right, like we said, we're recording this. We're about a month out from the show. Now that the dust has settled a bit, let's just reflect back on our time in Nashville. Right?

There's a lot of excitement and enthusiasm when we are there. One month later. How are you feeling now? Looking back?

Christina Henderson

00:05:17.030 - 00:05:41.590

I'm feeling great. I really am.

And, you know, I think a goal for these events is that the energy and momentum and inspiration lasts beyond the days that you're at the event. And I feel like that's happening. You know, the conversations continue to be, you know, people are excited, people are talking about next year.

So I feel good. How do you feel?

Colin True

00:05:42.630 - 00:06:47.640

I feel good. It's funny. And I'm going to, I'm going to say it in my open just this week, as we're leading up to recording this.

I mean, how many hours of podcast time do I have talking about the show, right? And even though we had some things like, ah, this is what.

Some of these things work, some of these things didn't, but we were, you know, I think I said to several, several times on the podcast, I don't know how you could have taken the first iteration of the show and make it better, right? It was just like, there's no way, like, there's no way it could have gone better. And still some people who are.

I was talking to this week who weren't there are like, hey, so what'd you think of switchback? And I'm like, well, are you not listening to the podcast, number one? Number two, it was great. And I mean it.

I've said, I'm very sincere about what I said in the pod. It was. I really could not have, I feel like, gone better. It was just, it was for what it was conceived to have been and what my expectations were.

Even just a few months ago, man, you guys just, you, you rose up and kind of blew them all away. What do you think worked best this year? So, like, leading into it, like, was it, was it.

Was there anything that you thought going into it, like, this should work, this shouldn't work. You know, what, what, what do you think actually worked? Was there anything that surprised you or what do you best at the show this year?

Christina Henderson

00:06:48.360 - 00:08:23.900

Yeah. Well, so thank you. Firstly, you know, we're really proud of It. And, you know, I said this, you know, when we did our recording on site as well.

But, you know, it really.

The credit goes to the industry and supporting something new and really getting behind it and offering feedback and collaboration all the way through. So thank you for that. And, you know, I was thinking about it.

It's kind of hard to point to, like, one big thing or, you know, you know, why it went well. But I believe that our approach that we took with many things led to success.

So we really focused on quality over quantity when it came to just about everything. So we focused on community and creating intimacy rather than just making something as big as it could be.

And I think by doing that, we brought the industry together and we. We brought what the industry was looking for. We also, at any point that we could.

We asked questions and we listened rather than making an assumption, you know, we could have made many assumptions along the way, and we didn't. And I think by doing that, we were able to put on an event that was valuable to the industry. And it looked maybe different than I thought it might.

You know, even I was looking back. Colin, when we first talked. Yeah, it was June of 2024, you were asking all these questions about what the event would look like.

And most of my questions, most of my answers are like, I don't know, I don't know.

Colin True

00:08:24.140 - 00:08:24.500

Right.

Christina Henderson

00:08:24.500 - 00:08:50.439

But. Right. So a year.

Yeah, like, so I think that approach, the quality over quantity, you know, community over numbers, and, you know, listening rather than making assumptions led to the success that we saw in year one. And those are practices that will carry forward as we move into years and events to come.

Colin True

00:08:51.239 - 00:09:07.639

All right, well, let's be real for our listeners for a second, though. Right now, a month out, when you're looking back, what didn't you think worked? What didn't work?

What would you like to improve on at least for future shows? What's sort of starting to eat at you a little bit now that the fun stuff's over?

You're like, you know, there was that one thing that I definitely want to see that one get better.

Christina Henderson

00:09:08.350 - 00:09:44.310

Well, you know, there's always many things, right? Like, that's just part of putting on an event. So there are many things that we will change and do better in years to come. Right. So we've been.

This will be our 19th year of the running event, and every year there are things that we are going to do better. There's always more value that we can provide.

We can always do better with communication and, you know, just making people prepared for what to expect on site. So, you know, many things would be my answer, but nothing massive.

Colin True

00:09:44.550 - 00:09:46.710

Get specific. There's one thing, there's something.

Christina Henderson

00:09:49.350 - 00:10:26.770

You know, so as we look to next year, you know, a big change is we'll be moving venues, we'll be moving cities. So, you know, one thing that will need to be different is we need more space. So we did sell out the floor this year.

So we, we need more space to bring in the who make sense to be a part of Switchback. So that's one piece. And you know, we want to continue to work to bring in more specialty retailers.

So that's an ongoing conversation is, you know, how do we create that value? How do we, you know, make sure that they can attend next year?

Colin True

00:10:27.250 - 00:12:05.350

I do look at the, I'm just going to throw out one at you now and see what you think because, you know, you know that I was a little dubious of the keynote beforehand. And then I do think, I do think, I look at that.

I'm like, and by the way, I talked to Mel Strong last week separately, and she's like, what'd you think? I'm like, oh, I thought you and Jim were great. I thought the conversation was phenomenal.

But I do go back to something that Doug Schnitzbahn told me the first time he came on the Rock Fight prior to him taking getting his own podcast of the thing that he missed. And I thought this was a classic kind of journalist perspective, was that those kind of big opening conversations as a tone setter for the industry.

And again, this is why, I don't mean I'm not trying to beat you up on this because it's the first one. There's so many things, unknowns and all those kinds of things.

But when I think of the reason I bring it up, it's not to be critical of the show you put on, but when I think of the myriad of reasons people will try and find to either not attend or be critical of the show or whatever. And it's always back to some almost nitpicky thing of like, well, I didn't have the conversations I was expecting to have. Right.

It's almost like a very personal kind of view that's casting a long shadow over an entire event. And I think if that's maybe the next thing that would be there to almost nail. Because it's like, if you can say, hey, this is why we get together.

Not it's like, yes, some people are going to write orders, some people are not going to get any orders. Or even be interested in writing orders.

But this is why the, why the group does get together, get together to kind of set the tone for the industry, which is probably going to be a pretty hard thing to do. Right. That's not something you can just say, hey, we're going to do it this way and it will work.

That's probably some trial and error in there, but that'd be the one thing I'd say that that would be like the level up moment probably for the future.

Christina Henderson

00:12:06.150 - 00:12:50.940

Absolutely. I think that's a fair point. And I think the education will be, continue to be refined. Right.

And like how we set that tone, how we kind of get conversations started through education. And definitely I think that's something we learned a ton.

You know, even as we were putting together the program and you know, coming out of it, of course, you know, we, we did send out a survey after Switchback asking for feedback on everything. But a lot of the feedback we will get is around the education. You know, what topics did we, you know, what experts did we miss?

You know, how can we better serve the industry by these, by the platforms that we provide.

Colin True

00:12:51.500 - 00:13:07.820

Right. Well, you mentioned the next thing isn't, you know, June 2026 though, it is the running event and Switchback will be back at the running event.

Since the enthusiasm for the spring event was so high.

I mean, do you feel like it, does it put any more pressure on the December edition to do more than it has the first few times you've done it in December?

Christina Henderson

00:13:09.430 - 00:14:18.130

I think this is a good question. I wouldn't say that there is more pressure around it.

I do think it creates a need to be sure that we properly communicate the differences and what to expect at switchbackre versus what to expect at Switchback Spring, because they are different. The running event is an established event nearly 20 years and running is at the core. And so that will be different.

And Switchback at Tre won't make sense for every brand that was at Switchback Spring. And it might not make sense for every retailer if running isn't a part of their business, it might not make sense for them. I think that's okay.

I think Switchbackre and the running event, it creates this unique opportunity for these communities to come together as we're seeing this crossover between, you know, running and outdoor and the consumer is doing both. Right. So it's this unique opportunity for these communities to learn from each other and collaborate.

But it will be different than what we saw, you know, this year in Nashville and what we'll see Next year in New Orleans.

Colin True

00:14:19.010 - 00:15:41.200

It is interesting, like our takeaway from going to Switchback last fall at the running event, because the running event is such a vibrant event and I think you and I talked about this on a separate conversation about how it's old school outdoor retailer Switchback, whatever it is, outdoor is complicated because it's like a bunch of little categories mashed up into one versus hey, the running event's like, hey, it's about running. We're starting with running. We have this common thread of running.

Oh, you may be more of a trail runner, you might be more of a hiker, but whatever this is about running and how we spread it out into.

And the outdoor opens the door for a lot more individual opinions about everybody's little per bit of their individual segment that they're interested in.

So when I look at, you know, when we were looking at Switchback last fall at the running event and there were some brands that felt like they got the memo right, the way they showed up at Switchback is like, hey, we are going to the running arm of the industry and we're going to show up as an outdoor brand at the running arm.

And then there were definitely plenty that were like, you know, it was a sales guy sitting at a, at a, at a high top working on his computer and it's like, why are you even here? I don't know. Did you. You didn't really kind of, you didn't do any research about why you should be here. So it's going to be interesting.

I feel like how this plays out going forward because I could see it becoming Switchback at the really kind of the enthusiasm spreading into the running part of it, but then. Or does it just kind of shrink back as Switchback grows into its own thing and do they maybe eventually separate entirely?

Christina Henderson

00:15:42.080 - 00:16:20.550

Right. And that's kind of what we're thinking about and what we're asking the industry right now. What is it that we need?

We started SwitchbackRE initially because the industry was asking for it. These historically outdoor brands were starting to come to the running event.

So we wanted to create a place for them and make them feel welcome there. And then that led into Switchback Spring. And so now it's like, what is next? And I think we're still learning what the industry needs.

Does Switchback at tre continue to make sense in years to come? Does it need to be separate? And we're open to what the industry needs there.

Colin True

00:16:21.830 - 00:16:29.830

And I just realized your year's even getting even more complicated because you have all these New things happening, including the running event in a new location. Because you're going to San Antonio.

Christina Henderson

00:16:30.230 - 00:17:00.990

It's a very big year. Yes. Yes.

It's been fun with switchback being now behind us to kind of really shift focus and think about the running event and switchback at the running event and yeah, it's a completely different location. It's all new, but. But our team is really excited about it.

There's like this opportunity for newness and innovation and streamlining things with a new location. I can tell the industry is excited, too, for something new.

Colin True

00:17:01.390 - 00:17:08.430

Do you ever think about just moving to Texas? Just get it over. We'll just be down there, I guess. Well, then you're close to New Orleans, too now.

Christina Henderson

00:17:08.750 - 00:17:16.110

It's where I grew up, so it's not too far off. Yeah. So I grew up in Dallas. My whole family is in the DFW area, so I am there often.

Colin True

00:17:17.180 - 00:17:19.820

Well, no offense to your family, but Seattle's better, so I think you made the right choice.

Christina Henderson

00:17:19.820 - 00:17:20.540

I think so, too.

Colin True

00:17:23.500 - 00:17:46.860

All right, well, let's. Let's look ahead, right? Because it's never truly to make predictions. Next year, you know, you're going to have. It's the same dates.

June 16th to the 18th, it will be in New Orleans, which, you know, obviously we've gone this far without talking about the Gaylord. You know, trying to, like, let you off the hook on that one. But the. But it's.

You know, the one thing about the Gaylord was when I did step outside, it was humid as shit in Nashville. Next year we're going to feel the humidity in New Orleans.

Christina Henderson

00:17:47.740 - 00:17:57.140

Okay. I'm glad you brought up the Gaylord because I know the Gaylord took some heat on the rock fight and all in playfulness. And you're not the only one.

Colin True

00:17:57.140 - 00:18:01.540

Yes, it was mostly. I get it. I really do get it. It offered you everything and that's, you.

Christina Henderson

00:18:01.540 - 00:18:20.520

Know, but I will stand by it all day that it was part of the success by, like, removing any barrier. Everyone could attend everything. You had no excuse. You know, we had way more people at, you know, our opening party than we could have ever imagined.

Right, but.

Colin True

00:18:20.600 - 00:18:22.320

Which was a highlight of the event for sure.

Christina Henderson

00:18:22.320 - 00:18:41.960

Yeah, we all barriers were removed whether you were staying at the Gaylord or not. You were already there. You had no excuse. So I stand by it. You know, if you brought in, like, another venue, you lose people along the way. So.

Yeah, I did want to mention my. I will stand by the Gaylord for.

Colin True

00:18:41.960 - 00:19:10.750

The grief we gave you. I still agree with you. I mean, like, again, you're one. You don't know. You want to keep them all in one place. All of those things.

It absolutely worked. Plus, you do there is. Even if there's criticism, it becomes a marker.

Like, did you go to the first switchback, the one that was at the crazy hotel in Nashville? Like, I mean, those stories will now be told, like forever.

Like, you hear the folks who are older than us talk about the Reno days of outdoor retailer and stuff like that. It is now part of industry lore, right?

Christina Henderson

00:19:10.990 - 00:19:27.230

It's so true and I love that. I agree. And yeah.

But that being said, I think it was great for year one and I'm glad that we're moving into a more traditional type venue in year two in New Orleans at the convention center.

Colin True

00:19:28.190 - 00:19:40.480

It was. It was such a bizarre, like, I've tried. And it was less about switchback and more thinking. Who comes here?

Like, who says, hey kids, we're all going to the Gaylord in Nashville and that's going to be our summer vacation.

Christina Henderson

00:19:40.640 - 00:20:04.540

A lot of people, I will tell you, I was there the weekend before Switchback, you know, getting things ready. And there were so many families there and going. There was a water park in the Gaylord and they were all running around going to that.

So I know it is an odd kind of Disneyland type place, but it makes it easy to connect and be together.

Colin True

00:20:07.260 - 00:20:22.220

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Colin True

00:21:23.690 - 00:21:42.810

And now back to the show. All right, well, what could you tell us about New Orleans? Right?

Cause if you look at year one, you guys crushed it and now it becomes all right, how does this now pivot into. This is the long term thing that we're doing every year and everyone's excited about it. And it's just an automatic write in on the calendar. Right.

That's probably gonna be the challenge for year two, I would imagine.

Christina Henderson

00:21:43.530 - 00:22:34.670

Yeah. And that's the goal. Right. And as it was a challenge, you know, putting on year one, you know, learning and bringing it all together.

But I think there's even more, you know, to come in year two. There's more. Year one you had some people who are just curious. Right. And so now we've done that.

And so now year two, I believe, is even more important. So, you know, it is early. Of course, I don't have too many details to share, but we learned so much from year one.

Not only about the needs of the industry and the needs will continue to evolve anyway, but we also learned about people's behavior at an event, what they're looking for, what they will or will not do. It just set us up for even more success in year two.

Colin True

00:22:36.030 - 00:22:43.390

Any vocal brands about the dates yet? Are they giving you a little bit of a grace period before they start in on you on that or have you already started to hear from folks?

Christina Henderson

00:22:43.690 - 00:23:45.120

You know, it's interesting, you know, you've, I've had conversations on both ends, so I, you know, I have had conversations where people are like, we are so excited. This is great. You know, sign us up. And I've had conversations where it's like, oh, you know, I'm not sure that the timing is good. Right.

So we've talked about this a lot. You know, there aren't any dates that everyone is going to be jumping up and down for. So, you know, I, I'm confident in the dates that we.

Have you mentioned it, they are the exact dates from year one. And you know, we had success in year one.

So yeah, you know, we, it's important to recognize that, you know, when you hear, you hear it, the negative, there's also just as many people are more on the positive. So we're continuing to listen, we're continuing to, you know, adapt as needed.

But, you know, so far the feedback is positive and we are getting many brands saying that they'll be back.

Colin True

00:23:45.680 - 00:24:23.110

The one thing that did surprise me, I'm pretty sure I've said this on the show, but if not, I'll happily say it now.

I think the, when the OIA came over and joined Switchback and, you know, kind of gave the endorsement as a partner for the show, I underestimated how important that was. And I definitely heard a few folks, few brands who told me during the show like, oh, as soon as the Oya Came on board, we signed up.

And I do wonder with some of the folks who are a little more vocal about the date, you know, if that's just more bluster. Is it just inconvenient? And we're still gonna see you at the show next summer, right? Or is it. Are you really that bummed out about it?

Christina Henderson

00:24:23.110 - 00:25:20.680

Yeah, I think it's the first. I think that they will be there. I think, you know, you have to. Some of it is just convers and kind of saying something.

But with the oia, you know, I also. I just want to take the opportunity since you.

Since you brought them up, that partnership was so meaningful, you know, leading into the event and on site. And, you know, we'll continue to work with oia. And, you know, I just.

We've worked with many different organizations with the running event and, you know, other events within our company, and the OIA partnership was of the most meaningful. And it was just a true partnership.

I mean, Kent and I were connected on teams, and we would just message every day, just, you know, back and forth, and, you know, they really felt like an extension of our team. So we're really excited to continue that partnership in years to come.

Colin True

00:25:21.160 - 00:25:42.180

Why did you settle on New Orleans? I don't think I've asked anybody that yet. What was it about New Orleans, which I think is great, by the way. It's one of my blind spots.

It's one of the few places in the lower 48 that I just haven't been to yet. So I was pumped when I saw that. Even though I'm gonna be swee.

Sweating from head to toe for a week, however long we're going to be there, I'm still really excited. I told my family. I'm like, we're going to New Orleans next summer. You guys can just hang out and do whatever while I have to do the show.

But we're going to New Orleans.

Christina Henderson

00:25:42.820 - 00:26:44.000

Yeah, it's going to be very fun, you know, and there were. So there were parameters and factors that we were considering in terms of, you know, a city and a venue. So, you know, partly space.

And, you know, there's only so many cities that have space that in the amount of space that we need and then in the dates that we need them, we wanted to stay in the Southeast. You know, we really felt like that was part of the formula for switchback. This year. Nashville was not available. It was not.

There was no opportunity at the convention center there. So we kind of, you know, we cast a wider net and we talked to some Cities visited. And, you know, I feel really excited about New Orleans.

I think, you know, again, it kind of has that Nashville energy to it. It's different, and it's in that southeast region, and we're excited to bring the industry back to that region in year two. Yeah.

Colin True

00:26:44.000 - 00:26:50.840

If you want to bring back the old demo days, at some point you have water sport opportunities. Do you want to do that at some point?

Christina Henderson

00:26:51.960 - 00:26:53.640

Everything's in the conversation. Always.

Colin True

00:26:53.720 - 00:27:05.380

Hey, all right, all right. Well, that's all I got for you. Anything else that you want to mention about this past show or do you feel like you've said it all at this point?

Christina Henderson

00:27:07.460 - 00:27:31.300

I think we said it, but I will say it again. I'm just grateful for the industry and really supporting this vision and of course, offering feedback and asking questions all along the way.

But I really feel like we are building the future of the industry and we're just so excited to be a part of it.

Colin True

00:27:32.650 - 00:27:40.570

And you said we set the precedent at every end of the first. The first day of every year now is the Rock Fight Live, because that was awesome.

Christina Henderson

00:27:41.130 - 00:28:09.230

So I have to tell you, unsolicited, with people that I talk to, I'll ask highlights or what their favorite thing. And the Rock Fight comes up. That live recording, it just. People were so happy. People were laughing. It just.

It really felt like a community driver and a community builder. So, yes, I think that is now in the schedule. In years to come.

Colin True

00:28:10.590 - 00:28:16.430

I swear, we didn't plan this. Thank you. We'll be there. We're excited. We had the best time. It was great.

Christina Henderson

00:28:17.310 - 00:28:19.150

It just was fun. It really was.

Colin True

00:28:19.550 - 00:28:30.470

It really was. It was a great show. Well, congrats on everything. We had a great time. Can't wait to go to New Orleans.

We'll see in San Antonio before then, it sounds like. And then, yeah. Thanks for coming back on the show. I'm sure we'll have you on again in the future.

Christina Henderson

00:28:30.950 - 00:28:34.550

Please. I enjoy these conversations always. So thanks, Colin.

Colin True

00:28:35.350 - 00:28:53.190

All right, that's the show for today. Thanks to my guest, Christina Henderson. We want your emails. Send them to myrockfightmail.com, the Rockfight's a production of Rock Fight LLC.

I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And back once again as Krista makes to take us out with the Rock Fight fight song. Will see you next time, Rock Fighters.

Chris DeMakes

00:28:53.190 - 00:29:49.830

Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock flight.

Welcome to the Rock Bike where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pick bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews.

Andy is the aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight, Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight. Rock flight.

Welcome to the rock flight. Rock flight. Rock fight, Rock flight. Rock fight, Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight, Rock fight eight.