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Topo Athletic Pursuit 2 + Two Summer Wheat Ales

Today's pairing that matters most? Topo Athletic's Pursuit 2 and two, count 'em, two wheat ales.


Which two? Well that would be Sam Adams Summer Ale and Golden Road's Mango Cart!


After Colin's experience testing the Obōz Katabatic Wind Low he felt compelled to bring some trail runners back to the fore because it has come time for him to find a replacement for his beloved Altra Lone Peaks.


Then Gear & Beer's official Cicerone (aka Justin) told Colin to go find a summer wheat ale so we could feature not one but TWO beers on today's episode. Colin brought home the Sam Adams seasonal classic Summer Ale and Justin tried Golden Road's Mango Cart.


Because that's what you get here on Gear & Beer... the pairings that matter most! Please follow and subscribe to Gear & Beer and give us a 5 star rating wherever you get your podcasts.



Gear & Beer is part of the Rock Fight podcast network. Be sure to check out THE ROCK FIGHT for the best outdoor industry commentary on Apple or Spotify.


Head to www.rockfight.co and sign up for News From the Front, Rock Fight's weekly newsletter!


Want to see your favorite piece of gear or favorite beer featured on a future episode? Send your feedback and suggestions to myrockfight@gmail.com or send a message on Instagram or Threads.


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Episode Transcript

Colin/Justin (00:02):

Welcome to Gear and Beer, the podcast for Gearheads beer buffs, and all adventurers with discerning taste. I'm Colin. True. I spent over 20 years working for brands and makers in the outdoor industry. And I'm Justin Hausman, a journalist, professional gear reviewer, senior editor at Adventure Journal, and also a certified beer expert with a question for you, Colin. Okay. What about gear buffs and beer heads? I mean, we're for gearhead and beer buffs, but I feel like there's probably gear buffs and there's probably beer heads. Yeah, absolutely. I think those things are completely interchangeable. That's a different podcast. That's like the Bizarre Gear and beer. That's beer and gear. Sorry. Oh, you're right. I make that mistake all the time today. We'll first be reviewing a piece of gear. The best way we know how. We don't talk about stack height geometry or with underfoot. Never Ever, we've never once talked about those things.


(00:49):

That joke played itself out. We talk about gear, the way you talk with your friends about gear. It's about the experience, our likes and our dislikes. And then for everybody, we take that piece of gear, we pair it with the perfect post activity beverage because Justin big glass of milk is a cone and he can recommend the kind of milk that you should have with your gear. Yes. Cold. No, he's a certified beer expert. Still are, right? It's true. It's true. Okay, good. You can look expires. It's a real thing. The bottom line is this is where you'll get the pairings that matter most. Gear and beer. And Justin, what gear and what beer are we reviewing today? Topo. Athletic Pursuit too. Colin, that's on you. I don't have those. I'm grabbing a hold of the cart today. And we, I I'm reviewing some shoes.


(01:32):

Pair of trail runners. They're trail runners. Just hikers. Yep. Okay. Okay. You can use it for either other ones. It's fine. Wait, what'd you just say? You can use it for either one. Hiking, trail, running, whatever. Can you It works. Okay. Alright. And then beer wise, I gave you a little assignment, didn't I? A little homework you did. I sent you out to find, I wanted you to get a wheat beer and I wanted you to find one that had a little fruitiness to it, a little rooty, 2D, fresh and fruitiness to it. I just felt like I felt it's getting hot. I don't know about where you live folks, but where I live, it's getting pretty hot. And so wheat beers to me are the most refreshing kind of beer you can have. What's nice? All last week I was enjoying some Heins for the most part.


(02:18):

Last week I bought some pink lemonade that I refused to let my daughters drink so sugary, that's really just an excuse for me to buy it for myself. I was doing little, I was making a little rattlers with wheat beer. Just have some wheat beer, pour a little lemon in it. God, there's really nothing more refreshing than that. So I gave you a little assignment to go find some of your own, but I was picking up the beer. I saw some Wimer. He of Eyes up on the shelf. I love Wimer. He of Eyes, Widmer. Iss good. Yeah, any he of Eyes' is pretty good. I mean, wheat beer are just so dang refreshing. And so I sent you out to find one that had a little bit of fruit to it too. So you have the same Adams Summer Ale, and I just want to come out with it right now and say, I love Sam Mule Adams beer.


(02:57):

It gets a bad rap as being a big mainstream brand, which I guess it is. But I mean, they started out craft, I think they're independently owned. I'm pretty sure they're still independent. I could be wrong. I probably should have looked that up before I said that, but yeah, Jim Cook, right? Isn't that the Boston Beer Company? The whole thing. And I think they're still kind of doing their own thing, but their beer's good. Their beer's really good. Any kind of rep they have as an overly produced big market brand or whatever is totally undeserved. They make a really good beer. And so Colin has that, and I went with the Golden Road Mango Cart. Golden Road is a brewery from LA that's since been bought by Anheuser-Busch, and I haven't had this in a really long time, and I'm really curious. I don't know that I've had a Golden Road since they were acquired, and so I'm really curious to see how this one is going to shake out.


(03:43):

Well, before we talk about what might be my new favorite shoe and some refreshing summary, wheat beer, a couple of housekeeping items. First, have you followed the show, clicking Follow and Leaving a rating and a written review, especially you Apple podcast listeners. We need you to do that. And anyone who is on Apple Podcasts and listening to the show and leaves a written review, and then from now until the end of June, sends us a proof that they did. So send your email to my rock fight@gmail.com and we'll send you a gear and beer sticker. It's all exciting stuff. We got to get the stickers and the reviews flowing people. But Justin, what are some other ways that our listeners can reach out to us? Well, Colin, we send each other emails all the time. Right? They can do that too, too. That's true. They can just email us at Rock.


(04:22):

They can't text us. That's just for us. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Unless you, I don't know. Maybe at some point give out our numbers on here, but not today. You can email us at My Rock fight@gmail.com. You can head over to our instagramPage@rockfight.co. And while you are leaving reviews and following us on podcast, why don't you go ahead and navigate over to our Rock fight.co. Wait. Shit. You confusing because it does, God dammit. What's our email address? Yeah, I thing you're trying to say is you want to go to rock fight.co, the website, sign up for mail list. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Jesus Christ, the Rock fight.co website. Sign up for our newsletter, which you will get every Sunday, a nice grab bag of fun stuff. There might be some, who knows, it could be some ette camp stories for you.


(05:10):

There could be some breaking news action figure that we've designed. There could be some breaking news. There could be an essay I wrote. There could be all kinds of stuff. Could be a recipe. I don't know. Maybe someday we should have rock fight recipes. That's a good idea. So head over to rock fight.co and join our mailing list. And then please, of course, we assume that you're probably here because you already listened to the Rock Fight, which is our first podcast, but we're still making it. So check it out. It's the best outdoor industry in adventure sports commentary out there. You know it. We know it. Everybody knows it. You can find the rock fight wherever you're listening to this podcast. Okay. You ready to get into the gear? I am. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I've been preparing to this conversation. Are you ready to get into the gear?


(05:52):

I'm excited about this. And we might get a little criticism. We've been a little footwear heavy. Have, Hey, you know what though? You know what you do every single day? You wear shoes, don't you, Colin? You don't wear a backpack every day. You don't sleep in a tent every day. If you ride a bike every day, you're lucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always refer to shoes. When I was working in retail as the show, that was the show. You go to work the footwear floor, you shop. That's the big time. Yeah. There's other things that could cost more, but if you go to an REI even, or a Dick's Sporting Goods specialty shop, whatever. You walk in, it's like what's the main spot part of the store? It's always a part that, and you kind always browse it, right? Yes. I'm not always going to browse like jackets, but I'm always going to take a little stroll through the shoe section always where I'll see the colors, see what's on the wall.


(06:40):

Yeah, maybe pick one up, kind of give it a heft, give it a sniff. New shoes smell good. Yeah. So when we were doing the Oboes CBA a couple weeks ago, and I definitely, I felt a little bad because as much as I thought that was a great shoe, I also a little stiff for you. Yeah. It was not my favorite. And I'm like, okay. I really wanted to talk about a shoe that I've been testing that I really, really love. So we're talking about the Topo Pursuit twos and a little backstory on my trail running journey. I've always been for the last decade or so, anyway, not always. They haven't been around that long, but I've been an ultra lone peak guy pretty much since the first Lone Peak came out. I want to say it was in the 2011 range. I met the original owners of Ultra at Outdoor Retailer, and I remember they hooked me up with a pair of shoes, and I was pretty much hooked since I think I probably had every iteration through their icon ownership.


(07:26):

And then when VF acquired the brand. And along that way too, I feel like all those big owners improved those shoes. I think Ultra had a lot of problems when they first came to market. The sizing was off, especially with a freaking gunboat feet like myself. It just didn't. What does that mean? I have gunboats for feet. You have your feet float and have little guns on them. See my feet, they're awesome. Whoa. Like John Kerry served on your feet in the Vietnam War. There's a whole thing going on. It's like old Battleship game going on no way right now. But now my big feet and so shoes that one of the finding features of Ultra is the foot shaped toe box. And in those early days, they would get really the bigger, I had to wear 14 from them because of their sizing issues that they had too.


(08:12):

Holy smokes. They looked terrible. But I loved running in them. I would never wear them out. But now they've kind of gotten the point where the lone peaks, I feel like you can wear publicly. So I see 'em all the time. And then Topos came out around the same time. I didn't like them very much. I didn't think they were well made. They didn't fit me very well. Tony Post, who started the brand used to work at Rummm and Rockport in rooting for 'em along the way, and they got acquired this past year by DSW, but they still seemed like they're kind of keeping their niche. I didn't realize that DSW owned actual brands. I didn't either. And they manufacture the shoes. I don't know what the relationship is or what they get out of DSW. I assume it's mostly just funding would be my interesting would you can get Topo shoes at DSW?


(08:59):

Actually, I don't know. That's a good question. We should look that up when I get to the distribution. I didn't think to look at that. Probably not, because I think it's more a off price warehouse. Yeah, exactly. I started thinking about topos though over the last couple of years because a couple things started happening. One, I stopped to running. I had two knee surgeries and just decided to stop running. And even though the Lone Peaks are the shoe of choice for many through hikers, I don't particularly like hiking in them for much. The same reason that you don't, there's a lot of give. There's a lot of, it's a shoe that seems to be more designed for dynamic movement than just more straight hiking totes. And also it's blasting through pairs because their outsoles suck. And I don't recall that. The terrain that I have down here, you have steel keels on your feet. You have boat feet. That's right. That's outsoles aren't designed for that man. Well, sorry, you got to cater to all your customers. You should make your own shoe company thought about that on occasion. But you know how expensive that is? Nope. Idea. It's really expensive idea. Oh yeah. I'm sure. More than a podcast you'd mean. Let's see, podcast. I have a computer. I'm already halfway there. Yeah, true.


(10:04):

So I was starting to think about what other shoes I could wear and try out, and I wanted to try out some different runners said I hadn't for a while. It's been a minute like, okay, well if I'm not running anymore, I don't like doing things other than running in these shoes and the outsoles are wearing out, even though I'm just hiking in them. Let's go try something different. So first I tried the Solomon Genesis. You love those. They do like them. They're pretty good. But the thing is they don't have the foot shaped toe box. They have these really narrow toe box. And I don't understand, do you remember the last time you tried a shoe with a more traditional sneaker style tow box on it? Yeah. No. I mean, I feel like some of my scarpa's are like that, and I don't think I have a wide forefoot, so I like a wide toe box, but I don't have to have one. It's not a matter of wide. It's the shape of it. Right. Because as soon as they put on the Solomons, they were really comfortable. I mean, Solomon knows how to make good shoes and I love their lacing. The little zippy lacing thing with the lace garage, you stuff it under. It's awesome. But just over the course of a couple hours, you started to really notice the lack of real estate in the front of the shoe, and it got really uncomfortable. Maybe you need fourteens.


(11:17):

Yeah, they had the same problem. They fixed the same manufacturer that made the original ultras 11 years ago or whatever. Also, it could be that you just have the most wicked case of gout. Is that possible? I don't think so. I think I just am really used to my toes being able to, my little toes can spread out. Yeah. Yeah. What's supposed to happen? Come on guys. It's all aesthetics. It's all aesthetics. Why these? The toe boxes look the way they do. Okay. I'll take your word for it. Yeah, it looks cooler. They definitely look cooler. What you think a wide toe box or a narrow one? Narrow one. No, I'm saying the Solomons look objectively cooler than Ultras do. Just before we recorded this, I watched one of my favorite Instagram reels, stars, and I can't remember his name. He does a thing called truck astrology.


(12:02):

Have you seen this guy? He's like some big southern dude, and he'll have a picture of a truck and he'll tell you everything you need to know about that guy that drives it. Right. And it's always funny, something like beat up 86 Chevy 1500 or whatever. He'll be like, oh, this guy definitely works at the tire store and does this, that and other thing. It's funny. I'm sure people wouldn't know. Don't going to follow this when we're done with know what I'm talking about. But he did one today for the first time that I've ever seen it with cowboy boot astrology where he is going through different kinds of cowboy boots and I own a pair. Do you own cowboy boots? I do not own a pair of cowboy boots. No. So I do, because I used to ride horses all the time. So it makes a whole lot of sense why you would wear cowboy boots on a horse.


(12:40):

And so I went to a boot barn and I wanted to get a pair of Justin's, it's my name, but they were really expensive, and so I got some OTs or whatever, and they're square toed, and that just makes sense to me. The pointed toed ones to me look kind of funny and they weren't as comfortable. Square toes are way more comfortable. And this guy, the first thing he says is just making fun of square toed boots on this Instagram reel. I'm just like, oh no, I got the ones that everybody makes fun of. That's the point of that story, just that I got. That's a good story. It was literally right before we started recording this, but when it comes to sneakers or running shoes, I feel over 80%, I feel like I'm going low on this, of people who lose their toenails when they run marathons could be solved if footwear manufacturers would stop making the really pointy to shoes.


(13:32):

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I did ultra marathons in low peaks. I had no toe issues whatsoever. I'd never had a toenail issue. None of these kinds of things. Most people don't. So anyway, I feel like that's something that's just be adopted across the board, and if it gets adopted across the board, then we'll have to worry about it being aesthetically pleasing because now this is just what they look like. Yeah, I'm sure every shoemaker in the world's going to take this into account. Thank you. That's how we're ending this episode. Yeah, it's the end now. Anyway, so this all brought me to the pursuit too, right? So it's zero drop, like the low peak Lone Peak, a leg, zero drop shoes has a foot shaped toe box like ultra. The big difference, it has a brm outsole. Is that rare? I mean, there are other running brands that use brm outsole, but yeah.


(14:12):

Mean, my hope is that we reviewed a little while ago. Yes. Oh yeah. Okay. You mean compared to Yeah. Okay. Compared to Ultras. Yeah, you're right. Lone Peak Ultra. If you're listening to this, put a freaking femur outsole on Lone Peaks, and I'll probably come back to you. But anyway, so after trying these out, after we reviewed the OBO Matics, it was just perfect timing because has great stability underfoot, so not quite as dynamic as the Lone Peak. Incredible traction. I'd probably put 60 plus miles on them at this point. And the outside looks untouched. The outsole, excuse me, looks untouched and they feel like a running shoe, but they actually feel really great when they're hiking. So how much do they weigh? 10 and a half ounces. Okay. Pretty light. Pretty light. Pretty light. 145 bucks. Loan peak's about 140 bucks. And that's for me, totally worth $5 upgrade for the better outsole.


(15:02):

And of course you can find it in all the key. What was the one place we were wondering if they were sold? Oh, D-S-W-D-S-W. Yeah. Well, okay, sorry. It's DSW, parent acquires footwear maker Topo Athletic. Okay. So you definitely can't get them at DSW. You cannot get them at A DSW, which is probably a good thing. Yeah. Alright, so I understand why you like them, but what makes them, is there something that makes them different or unique in this space? Is it just that they have a wide toe box and a vroom sole? Yeah, I mean, it's a, well-made shoe. I mean, one of the problems I had with the original topos I tried, which is not fair, it was a long time ago. They didn't feel very well made. I didn't like the materials. I felt like the uppers felt a little, didn't feel like, felt like they just kind of collapsed.


(15:45):

I didn't feel like I had a lot enough stability in the upper to wrap it around my foot. I love the construction of this. The materials used, they're incredibly breathable, taking a shower after going for a hike in 'em, and then there's dirt on my toes that have sifted through the shoe you took with your shoes on. That's cool. Don't you do that? Isn't that what everybody does that that's a thing Normally? No, actually, Colin, typically no. Typically what happens is you take your shoes off at the front door and then you do inside. How do you maintain your case of trench foot then? Isn't that Yeah, you got to question. Got to keep that going. Yeah. Well, I am sure there's other ways you could do it, but yeah, I typically don't shower with my shoes on. I'm sure I have. I'm sure there's been a situation where I have, I can't think of it.


(16:24):

I took my shoes off. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Alright. Okay, good. But I was surprised that how much dirt was on my feet that I had filtered through. So very breathable is my point, right? Yeah. Have we discussed the, I don't remember if I've talked about it in this show or not, but do you know who Andrew Ska is? I used to know Andrew Ska. Actually, we sponsored when I was at Gole. Your best friend. Okay. Well, anyway, I saw something he did recently where he was showing how he was going to pick what shoes he was going to wear for some really long desert through hike. Maybe it was part of the PCT. I don't know, but he does something called the flashlight test where you put a light in the shoe and the more light that you could see on the outside of the shoe, the more open the pores are or whatever in the shoe, the more sand will get in.


(17:08):

And so that's how he decides. If he's trying out some new shoes and he knows he's going to wear 'em in a sandy place, he wants the ones that when you put a flashlight in, no light comes out. That's why I don't like any of the sand out. Any of the boots that you recommend? They all failed the flashlight test. Well, they would all pass the flashlight test. Dude. They're not going to let any sand at all in because he won't see any light coming out. Oh, he went the other way. He wants 'em to be less breathable to keep the sand out. Well, yeah. I mean breathable. Yes, I guess. I think in his case, keeping sand out is probably more important than being super breathable. If you get sand in your feet, sand in your shoes, you're going to get blisters anyway. I assume he's correct.


(17:45):

I mean the dude's like a badass through hiker and marathoner and stuff. Maybe he's full of shit, but I doubt it. He seems like he, what he talking about? No, he's definitely not full of shit. Given our limited experience compared to an Andrew Ska. I think I'd suited us default to boots in that situation, even if it would be hot. I just would rather like I'm not, Nope. Put dude hates boots. I mean, he would never wear boots. What? I don't think he wears boots in Alaska. You would go boots is always the answer in the desert. Depends. I mean, I'd probably consider bedrocks unless it was, that might be a terrible idea, but I doubt it just fried on day one. I don't know. I mean, isn't that what they wear deserts classically like sandals? I mean, that's what Jesus wore, right? His feet were fine.


(18:27):

They were washing each other's feet all the time. Everybody had nice feet. Do we know about his feet? There's a chapter in the Bible about his feet probably. It seems to cover lots of things in the Bible. There's probably an entire Old Testament chapter just about people's foot care. Just the gear guide and of the, oh, the Old Testament gear guide would be pretty fun because it describes that stuff, like what they were wearing and what it was made out of and yeah, got to have it though. He's got to have, we have the specialty retailer back in Bethlehem or whatever. Just like, Hey, I mean, I realize that this is a totally pointless comparison, but when I think about wildly engineered shoes and I think about what people wore 5,000 years ago and built pyramids and shit in, it's like totally, at a certain point, this might be making it worse.


(19:12):

Maybe just wear the barest thing that you can. No, that's why it's really preference in all of this, right? That's why you say, I really hiking and Red rocks and I know I can do it, but I just genuinely prefer and feel better wearing boots. Most people though, think I need to wear watch of that. You don't need to. I fucking hate cactuses. Every cactus I kick. Well, that's a good, that's actually a good boy. I get so mad. I see a kick, so I always have to wear boots. I'm always kicking cacti. That's the evolution of the Karen Kicker. It's kicking Cacti. A cool band name. No album name maybe are you? It's an album name I feel like. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I feel like if I walked past the marquee at the nine music venues I have in my tiny town tonight and one of 'em said Kicking cacti, I'd be like, Hmm.


(19:55):

Kicking cacti. Definitely. I feel like it doesn't really roll off the tongue. No, it doesn't know what rolls off the eardrums is the fucking banging going on next door at this house? That is it right now. Now it's really bad. I mean, listen, I'm wearing noise cans linking headphones and all I can hear is clang, clang clang. You obviously love these shoes, I should say. I hope. Sorry to topo. I'm just going to come out with it. I was supposed to review these two, but I sent the wrong size. Oh yeah, we should have said that. And so I gave him to my next door neighbor to try and he's literally an All-American, or he was, he's not in college anymore, but he was an All-American cross country runner and an All-American track runner at Georgetown. Dude won't stop talking about how much he loves them.


(20:38):

He's just like, these are phenomenal shoes. And he gets free Nikes and shit all the time. He's still kind of sponsored, but he loves these things just based off the pair you gave him or? Yeah, I don't think he'd ever heard of 'em before. He sent me three separate text messages about how much he likes them, and this shoes are a really big deal to him, so they must be pretty good. Yeah, it's probably better. That's honestly probably better than anything I could have possibly said. Had I tried to make. Tried to. Well, they're no heavy leather boot, lemme tell you that. I don't know if he's doing huge runs of them or not. Probably. I mean, a guy runs like 30 miles a day, but yeah, he's pretty fired up. Well, it is interesting the way that market's changing, right? You have Hoka, which we've talked about and you've been running in, there's still has obviously they have a so strong presence.


(21:22):

Went for running them yesterday. Just so pleased that ate speed's a dope shoe, such a good shoe. It still has that kind of, it definitely has a presence in the trail community, but I feel like they've gotten more mainstream. They're a little bit more on the everyday and roadie community. The HO has a brand. Oh, totally. Yeah, totally ultra still. And I was actually texting with the retailer earlier today and asking him if they carried the pursuits and the state of what he's seeing in his store, and he mentioned that Ultra is definitely the number one, probably somewhere in 40 to 50% market share when it comes to the specialty trail and ultra running brand that people are buying the most. But he said Topa is coming on strong. Topo, excuse me, Topo is coming on strong. And it's also really the only alternative you have if you like things about Ultra because even the Hoka is a little bit more fits traditionally.


(22:14):

The things that I like about Ultra I can find at a topo and it still kind of has that I knew about it before. You did kind of vibe. Well, yeah, I mean I'd heard of them and I recognize their logo, but it's not something that I don't think I ever really get pitched by whoever does their pr. I don't think I'd ever really had an opportunity to try them, and I don't think I would've ever thought about them when it was time to try a new trail runner. But I mean, I'm aware that they exist, but now I'm super interested. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean it was not easy to track down even who does their pr? I think it's mostly in-house. I wonder if that's purposeful or if they could actually benefit from maybe getting out in front of it a little bit more.


(22:56):

Actually, I was in a store in Bishop California last year who you would think would have a large ultra presence given how many backpackers use it and through hikers and things like that. No ultras and all topos. So that's a decision. So either Ultra pulled out or they kicked them out. That was not, they decided we're going to go with these now. So definitely seems like it's growing, but I wonder if they could be doing even better in that regard. Well, I'm all about pretending I was into something before anybody else was. So I need to get a pair before it's too late. What else? You got to rate 'em Bra. Yeah, I guess it's time to rate. So I was thinking about this. If I were still running and you put the loan peak head to head with the pursuit, this is where it gets tough.


(23:40):

I think the loan peaks have served me so well and I have such a long history with them, but I really, really hate having to buy two to four pairs a year because the outsole can't hold up, but I'm not running. So I think I probably would still choose right now the topos over. I definitely would for what I'm doing now. And so that in mind and also the fact that, yeah, they're unique compared to the Lone Peaks and they are kind of a niche in a larger category. There's still a trail running shoe. If Ultra and Topo and Hoka all went away today, I'm sure I could find a pair of Brooks that worked for me or there's so many options in this category. It's just like we talked about when we were talking about the hokas that you reviewed. So I'm going to 7.8 because I like them that much.


(24:25):

If the category was a little greener, it's pretty high for you. I feel like you rarely ascend to the high sevens. Yeah, I really, really liked these. I really liked that I was able to find something that I liked already and was improved upon. Yeah, that's cool. Now, if Lone Peaks come out as a zebra mele at some point, that's going to be a tough day. Maybe for Topo. I'm just going to guess that my neighbor would give them an 8.5 by the, it's going to rate him for him. He seem like them that much maybe hired you. He was pretty stoked. Yeah, I've given him stuff before and he hasn't even said anything and these, he was just like, dude, these are insane. Hey, before we move off of it though, I mean, just a thing that is a little bit different. I know I talked a lot about the tow box because that's just been a, now when you say difference, do you mean the topo difference?


(25:06):

Yeah. Without reading from their website. No, no, no, no, no. That is a thing that ever since when I was at Timberland, we launched a shoe brand that was actually based on the outdoor brand Go light, go light footwear. And we had foot shaped toebox and just became so abundantly clear to me that it's just a better way to have your shoes be shaped in a way it performs with your foot and all that kind of stuff. Your feet shoes should be shaped your feet. And it's one of those, this is so obvious, why doesn't everybody do these things? But if you look at their website, if you learn build about the brand, so again, Tony post's been in the footwear industry a long time. When he launched this, it looks like it was 2013. And they do focus on obviously the room toe box, but then the other kind of pieces.


(25:43):

And a lot of footwear brands say this, but I feel like this definitely these guys can back it up. Based off of my experience using this shoe is a really secure midfoot and heel that I get no slippage in the heel whatsoever. It is super comfortable, kind of like I said, that dynamic, the way the lone peaks would feel on my feet, that was great for running. I don't lose anything by having to be more secure in the topos. I feel like if I were going to run in these, but also as a hiking shoe, I think it performs much better because of it. And then also they still prescribe a low heel to toe drop. The pursuits, which I just reviewed are a zero drop. But they also I think have a number of models that are a four millimeter drop go. I don't, I don't know how different this is.


(26:24):

I think your Hoka are probably like a four mil. Yeah, but I mean in terms of just going with a full on branding distinction here, all ultras are with a wide toe box and secure midfoot and a low drop too, right? Yeah. I mean I never really missed anything in terms of, I never felt like they were not secure in the heel, the midfoot. But I also, I do feel a difference in these and it's kind of hard to put my finger on it. Yeah, I mean they're designed a little bit different. They have their own little secret sauce. The last is different. So images fits with your foot. I mean, that's the thing with shoes. I've been trying to get my neighbor on scar as for a really long time. Not the guy that likes to topa, but a different neighbor and he keeps buying 'em and sending 'em back. He is just like, they just feel awful on my feet. But he, I could tell they're nice shoes, but they just feel terrible on my feet. Right. I mean he's obviously a mutant, but Scarpa's made for the mutant feet, I guess. But just how it goes.


(27:21):

All right. Before we talk about this week's pairing, our beer pairing, what we do here is we have the pairings. Do you know that We do. Here is the pairings that matter most. Justin, did you know that? Yeah. Well, the beer pairings are just pairings generally. We're not like a relationship. We're not like a dating service. Should we do that? We're not like outdoor matchmakers. Yeah, unless you consider gear and beer making a match. But we can't help you with your romantic life. Colin, can we? I don't think so. Should we solicit love letters or advice? Advice? I would give you advice. We're happily married men. We made it this far. Not to each other. Everyone. Yeah. I mean, I like to think of my wife as my teammate, like a very, an excellent teammate. Wow, we got there. Who else? Can you think of any other good teammate examples?


(28:16):

Any other members of your team you considered quite important? I think you know about our teammates at Darby Communications. Yeah, great example. Should we start this over? No. No. Okay, good. If you run an outdoor endurance or active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR in digital marketing belay partner or beer drinking buddy than Darby can't even before. We can't. What were you going to say? Well, we haven't had beers with the people with Darby yet. We have a strictly digital relationship. I was just going to say, I've also never had them as a belay partner. I would hate to think that we someone advice for that they could belay you and maybe nobody Stacey talks about, was Stacey the one that talked about how she used still climb? I think so. So she's probably could belay you, but I don't know. It's tough. Or we get, say we're speaking metaphorically, I guess.


(29:01):

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They can absolutely help your business reach new heights and they might just keep you from falling on your ass again. Metaphorically. Metaphorically. They wouldn't want to get, this is your lawsuits. And if they try to get you to fall, I bet you if you were falling over, if you were tripping and falling, they'd, Hey, watch out. Or something like that. Or they might going to touch you. Well, they might grab your arm like, oh hey, watch that step. And you started to fall and they were there for everybody that we've talked to. Darby is so nice. I would bet that they would be very good about if you're doing a trust fall. That's true. Or if they saw you start to take a header off a curb, I think they'd probably help you out. They seem like great people.


(29:39):

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well there you go. So you really should give Darby a call if you need some help, because if they can help us, they absolutely can help anybody. Now let's turn our attention to after the activity at the break, the put in the trailhead, we're going to crack open the cooler and iib a beverage so we can celebrate our wins and losses in the back country. Let's have a beer. Alright, Justin. Here's the scenario that I've cooked up for this week. We just wrapped up a through hike, not just like a trail run, an actual through hike. You and I just wrapped up the JMT. We did it. Yep. We survived the trail in each other. And you know what, we're still friends. Yep. That's because I wore the topo athletic pursuit Twos on our hike. What did I wear? I don't know.


(30:22):

Something. Terrible problem. You weren't even concerned some friend. You are. I was so happy. Yeah, just looked at your feet the whole damn way. My stoke was high, my feet were comfy. I don't care what you have on your feet, that's your problem. You figured that you didn't even look around at stuff. I like call 'em. Look at this mountain. You're like, huh? You're just staring at your feet shoes. They were so comfortable. Yeah. So as we descend the Yosemite Valley, we went northbound. We beline for Would you rather go northbound or southbound? Would you rather end at Yosemite or you end at Whitney? I think you're supposed to end at Whitney. Yeah. I think southbound is usually the prescribed. Yeah. Yeah. How do the end in the valley though? I think I would too, Whitney. And also it's like, hey, we're at the end. You're talking about Whitney now you got to hike 20 miles back to Yeah, I think it'd be cooler to start at Whitney. It's all downhill from there, right? At that point technically. Is that how it works? We'll lose, yeah, the passes. There's no mountain passes going from Whitney down a ramp right down the, it's got like guardrails, the whole thing.


(31:22):

Anyway, now we're in the valley. We're going to bee line it for a burger and a cold beer. And so what are the pairings that matter most? We got a couple pairings today. What are the pairings that matter most today? Well, if you're going to have a, I mean, the thing is though, if you're in the valley and you're bee lining it for burger and a beer, your options are whatever they have on tap. That's a good point. I've been to the little cafe there at Curry Village a million times. I don't know if they're going to have these on tap, but okay. Our wives are there with a cooler. Yeah, they brought us that. Yeah. Alright. So as I said the beginning, I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm just really enjoying wheat ales or wheat beers this time of year, Colin. And I don't know what it is about 'em.


(31:59):

Wheat beers are usually lighter. They don't have to be. You can get some super strong wheat beers out there. Avan, which is a super strong wheat beer, if you know that one. There's other ones like that. You can get imperial wheats if you really feel like it. A lot of beer makers will experiment with doing wheat IPAs so that you can get some strong wheat beers. But I just feel like usually the wheat beers are, I think about your classic, like half a vison with a slice of orange or a lemon in it. It's just a really nice affable summertime beer. And so that to me sounds like what I want at the end of a through hike. I'm usually the second time. You said affable on this show. What is quaff? What is words? It just sounds like it should mean what I assume it means.


(32:43):

You know what I mean? I love that so much. That's the best answer you could have given. It's true. That's just a word. It's a word. It's a real word. Should we look it up? Let's look it up. Mean. I feel like it means easy to drink, drink. I'm not joking. Is something, is this a word when you were doing the training to be a C? That's a real word. No. Easy and enjoyable to drink. Okay. Suitable for being quaffed, apparently. Beed. It's often used with wine, but I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, affable. It's a weird word. I actually never thought about how weird that word is, but it's kind a great word though too. I like it's, it's really pleasant, really easy. It is funny. It's usually attributed to wine to me. It has an effervescence quality to it. The word itself does, it's almost ic, right?


(33:27):

I don't know. You know what that word means, Colin? Yeah. That the word that is also a sound, a word that sounds, yes. Yes. The word that sounds like the sound is describing. So anyway, profitable to me almost has a little bit of that because it just feels airy and light. So anyway, that's what profitable means. I love it. Yeah. So wheat beers, wheat ales, as you can imagine, are made predominantly with wheat as opposed to malted barley. Now, that doesn't mean you can't make, sometimes they'll have both, if that's generally the case. But wheat has a bit more of a smooth smoothness to it, almost kind of, geez. Almost satiny. The mouth feels. It's a lighter in the mouth as well as on the palate. I guess that's kind the same thing. But wheat beers, that's where their lightness and their ability comes from.


(34:15):

Just the wheat itself, the nature of the protein in wheat, the nature of how it's structured is just a little bit lighter on the palate. So wheat beers are almost always going to be much, much lighter. And so the other thing I was thinking about is when you finish a big hike or a big run, I dunno about you, I'm always craving fruit or gummies or something. There's something about when I get really thirsty, I want some sweetness too. And so we picked ones that have a little bit of fruit to add it to them. So your summer ale, I presume, actually has citrus added to it. I know. I've not had that beer. I know it builds itself as a citrus. Citrus weed ale. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it is possible that some of the citrus is just coming from the hopsy, but I imagine there's some actual juice in there as well.


(34:57):

And then my mango cart has mango in it. And I guess we should go into a little bit about the breweries. So I mean, Sam Adams has been around forever. I didn't look up when they started because that's kind of your favorite brewery, but let's look that up actually. 1980s. Yeah, eighties. Jim Koch was the founder, made Boston Lag, his kitchen. That's right. Oh, cook. Is that how you pronounce it? That's right, yes, that's right. That's right. Introduced in 1984. Okay. So that's when Boston Lager came out. So that would've been the first beer that they made, so, wow. A long freaking time. But that doesn't get more craft beer than that. Right? Dude was making beer in his kitchen from his grandfather's recipe of Sam Adams. Pretty rad. Pretty rad. And I've, again, always been a really big fan. So all their stuff is good.


(35:45):

They would make a lot of good seasonal beers. They make one of my favorite October fests. The Winter Ale is really good. And is it the Winter Ale? Did you have their cherry wheat? I've had their cherry wheat. So that's what you're drinking. And then I have the Golden Road Brewing. Colin, are you familiar with Golden Road? Not at all, actually. Yeah, not at all. Okay, so Golden Road for a time was the sexiest craft beer you could get. They're from la. They were founded by women they made, when they first came out. They're presumably still really great, but I mean, they took off a rocket ship. I mean, the cool beers, interesting kinds of beer, very well made, very tapped into the LA scene, I think. I can't remember where their headquarters are, maybe Atwater or something. But they were just very la, very bright, very cool.


(36:35):

And I stocked a lot of their beer at the beer bar that I ran. It was hard to get, and people loved it. And people always, everybody wanted Golden Road. It was like the coolest beer you could get. But they were acquired in 2015 by Anheuser-Busch. Those 2013 to 2020 was when the big breweries were like, uhoh Craft beer's fucking us up. And they just came and they bought everybody. So that's when a lot of your favorite craft beers were bought by big brands. Brands. I think it was Anheuser-Busch bought Ian up in Seattle. Remember those kind of things. Did they? Yeah. I didn't realize that. Yeah, I mean, it's honestly shocking how many craft what you think of as a craft. Beers owned by InBev, Anheuser-Busch Sapporo owns a ton of stuff. So yeah, I mean, unfortunately we live in the late stage capitalism world, folks, and that's kind where three companies own everything you've ever touched.


(37:22):

But it doesn't, it's not always a bad thing. It just kind of depends. It usually means that there'll be corners cut and there'll be cheaper ingredients and the marketing will get kind of flat and all that sort of stuff. But I don't know. It also means you can get Golden Road in a lot of other places. So that's kind of the deal. But yeah, I have not visited Golden Road since the merger, so this is the first time I've had a Golden Road beer since 2015. I'm excited about it. But the Mango cart is everywhere. They make a lot of different beers, but the mango cart is the one you'll see most often. So I'm guessing it's their biggest seller. I don't really mango that much, but I think it's going to be, I have a feeling this is going to be really good. And it's hottest balls where I'm sitting right now, so it's going to be, I'm excited.


(38:02):

Back in mid two thousands, I probably, I drank a lot of Sam's Suburbs. That was kind of like a go-to beer in the summertime. The seasonal summer. But I've not had it in a very long time, so I'm kind of pumped to try this. Love, love, love Sam Adams beer. Can't say it enough. I think that's so cool. Should we crack it open? Let's crack it open. Oh, I should also say, I mean, I'm also a massive contrarian, so it's possible that a lot of my love for Sam Adams is because I'm a beer nerd, and you're not supposed to beers like that. But I mean, I fricking love button Coors, so screw it. I like what I like, you know what I've been enjoying lately as we're talking about beer? What's that? Last week at Trader Joe's, I bought one of their house-made beers that like Joseph Brow.


(38:40):

They're like five bucks, dude. So good. Good. That's awesome. I actually almost wanted to do this, to do it for this, but it's like their summer. They call it a summer beer, but it's a Kolsch, but it's insanely good. And it's 5 99 a six pack. I mean, I don't dunno how they do it. It's probably some huge brewery that makes too much or whatever, and they just brand it as, or it's actually brewed for them. It's possible, but I don't know if you don't know those folks. Trader Joe's house branded alcohol is insanely good and an insanely good deal. All right. Okay. We're going to open. Yeah, you ready? You got a can or a bottle? I got a can. What do you got a bottle there? Oh, I got a bottle. This will be a good combo. When you're ready. Can's always going to sound better.


(39:19):

Ready? Yep. We got beer on my screen. Oh God. I thought far. It was a twist off for a second there. Okay, give me the smell. What's the smell? Working? Smell just fucking good. Isn't smell doesn't smell like lemon. Lemony. Yeah. Yeah, the citrus is a, oh, wait. No, no. Hold on. I got a pour. You said, you said ababa after the pour. I'm not drinking it. I'm smelling it. Oh, oh, oh. Smells good. This smells like mango. It smells lemony. Hold on. I got to, I bet they have the same exact color. Oh, yours is much darker than I expected. So mine is mine. Hate little haes. Mine looks like carbonated lemonade. It does, yeah.


(39:56):

Well, you know that beer, I guess. Yeah. Well you've had this one you said. Oh, you haven't had mango. Haven't had it. Yeah. Holy smoke. That's refreshing. That's a dangerous one. Oh, I should also add, this is only 4% A BV, so you can, oh, that's not bad. Drink 37 of them and you'll be fine. What's this one? This is 5.3. Okay, this is good. Okay. Whatcha getting? Describe it. Okay. This is some of the loggers we've had, and I know this is a nail, but it's sort of like, that's sort of the Budweiser sort, refreshing. We say, oh, that'd be so good when you're hot or whatever. This is like that, but elevated it up like 10 points. It just has that sort of, okay, sorry.


(40:35):

But you know what I mean? It has that same sort of like, oh my God, I could drink a lot of this because it tastes so good. And if I was hot and sweaty outside, it would be incredible. But it also has, there's much more depth, and I dunno, the citrus brings a lot good branding. I guess. It did. Tastes like a summertime beer. This is the kind of beer you want to have when it's hot outside and you've just been hanging out all day and doing stuff outside. So what does it taste like? Describe the taste. I could definitely tell it tastes the wheat. What was the wheat beer we did before? It was not a cherry wheat or the, no, I don't remember. Oh, the Cali Squeeze blood orange. Okay. Yeah, rattle ish. Which is kind. This is, yeah, that would've been a good one for, that would've been a good one for this too.


(41:18):

But I think it's a little bit stronger, but, but similar to that. But this seems sometimes the wheat can be a little abrasive in a way. Is that an accurate Yeah, maybe. I mean, it's up to you if that's how it feels. That's how it feels. Well, abrasive, I really like that beer, but it's just very drinkable. So weed beers have a very unique flavor. I mean, abrasive is an interesting term. Usually wheat beers, well, you usually have he of license and stuff, which have a very particular note to them. And often there'll be kind of a banana and clove kind of thing going on. Or a white ale will have that. So there's a very pronounced flavor, typically with wheat beer. So I know what you mean. You either want one or you either want one or you don't. So a wheat ale versus just a straight, is there just an ale or is there always something in front of it?


(42:04):

Is there a pale ale and a wheated ale and, well, ale is just ale. It'd be like saying soda. Okay, I see. Right. That could be soda water. It could be coca. A stout is an ale, and a pale ale is an ale. So how related are they? They have the same kind of yeast. That's the difference between longer and they're brooded a similar temperature, but that's pretty much it. Well take the heat off of me. I don't know what I'm talking about. Tell me about yours. Well, I just wanted to hear what you had to say about yours. So this tastes like a Rattler. This tastes like a beer that has a ton of fruit in it.


(42:40):

It's really light, really like a comforting bread on the readiness to the mouth. Feel like it feels like almost biscuity, which is kind of normal with a wheat beer. It's funny. I don't necessarily think, I would think mango. I would just think sort of tropical. This feels like what I was drinking last week, which was like I was taking wheat beers and pouring lemonade into it. That's what this tastes like. So this, I hate to say, I could give this to my kids and they would drink it. I mean, it's got a real nice juice. You give that to your kids. I didn't say it that way, Colin. That's what I heard. I give it to your kids. But no kids, you'd have to keep this away from children. They would definitely drink this. I mean, most of the other beers I drink, they would never even touch.


(43:26):

But this a kid would like, it's really sweet, but I shouldn't say that. It's really fruity. I don't think it's that sweet. It's very fruity. I will say this. Super cold. After doing anything that makes you hot, I don't think you could possibly find a better beer. This is perfect for a hot, hot day. Perfect. It's got a wonderful, very LA scene on the can where it's like palm trees like a beach, people walking up and down the boardwalk, and then the mango cart is like, I'm sure you guys have 'em down there too, but the little carts that you'll see on street corners where they're selling frozen fruit and they'll put spices on it and stuff. You know what I'm talking about? The little, it's got that cart on the front, but the vibe of this is perfect. I mean, it's absolutely, that's a really freaking good beer.


(44:07):

I don't care if Anheuser-Busch owns them or not. It's really good. Well, I'll tell you, Sam, I'm a little disappointed. They used to have a much cooler label. Now they're just going to this basic yellow with blue text on it. It used to be, I forget what was there before, but it wasn't this, and this feels like a money saving move by Sam Adams, by the label. Could be. Could be. Does it still have the picture of Sam Adams on it? Yeah. He's raising his little fucking mug up there. But I'm like, that's not, I don't know. Well, what are you going to rate this thing, your thing versus my thing? Another little sip here.


(44:38):

Easiest way for someone who just drinks beer because they like to drink beer and don't really think much about it and maybe isn't like a student of beer. The easiest way to tell whether beer's, wellmade or not is if there's any kind of negative aftertaste or if it flattens out or gets thin or is disappointing on the finish. This beer has none of that. The finish is, it's very quick, but it's full. It's a nice, it doesn't feel like you can kind of tell when a beer is cheapening out, when the finish is just very flat. A Budweiser, which I really like, has a really flat finish. This is great. The flavors all the way through. It seems bad. It's a bad taste. What do you mean in the way it finishes? No, I mean, I guess the Budweiser example I gave us, the most obvious, I think where you have a drink, the first thing that hits your mouth is the full flavor of the beer.


(45:29):

It tastes really good, but then as you swallow, it just thins out really quick and it doesn't taste bad. It just feels like tastes watery and just kind of like, oh, where'd the flavor go? Whereas a beer like this, the flavor lasts the entire way through. The after tastes taste, just like the first thing that you tasted. So to me, how you can tell right away for the beer's quality, this has that it's not going to be for everybody for sure because of the fruitiness. And there's a part of me that it's not like it's cheating, but I mean it's adding flavor that the brewer didn't have anything to do with, right? So it's easier to make a beer like this tastes good than if it was just a straight, like a wheat beer.


(46:09):

I'm going to give it like a seven three, which is probably low for me, but that doesn't mean I don't really like this beer a lot. I really like it, but I feel like it's harder to make, to make a beer that has a lot going on with different malts and different hops that you're getting, right? So if you get a palle right, to me it's like, okay, that's hard to make. So that's an eight, that's a nine. This is pretty wheat beers are very easy to make wheat beers, other than the fact that they get wheat beers get really, really carbonated. They produce a ton of carbonation, so they're kind of hard to make at home, but the flavor you can usually get, right? And so it's an easier beer to make. And with the adjunct of Mango, it can't quite rate it as high as I would something where it's just pure beer.


(46:56):

So yeah, seven three, but a really well-made version. Very, very, very well made style like this. And I would reach for this hot and sweaty over probably anything else out there? Well, it's funny, I just wrote down, I'm writing this one a seven too. I'm not going to say anything nearly as eloquent as what you just said. I don't have your experience with this stuff, but I would tell you, you know what? I bet you I'd give it a full point higher if I had like a lobster roll here with it. Yeah, totally. I know exactly what you mean. Or if I had tacos. Yeah, that's what I mean to some sort of good, meaty, really strong flavored food with this would probably, this is a perfect thing to have some kind of food with. Totally. Okay. To summarize this episode of Gear and Beer in our gear category, we have the Topo Athletic Pursuit two, which I rated a 7.8.


(47:45):

And when you're looking to refresh yourself after a trail run or a hike, the official cone of gear and beer suggests a couple things today. First, you crack open the Cold Sam Summer Ale, which I rated a 7.2 or the Golden Road Mango Cart, which Justin rated a 7.3 on the gear and beer, beer scale. We need to call up with a cooler name for that. The beer scale should we call it? I don't know. We'll workshop something. All right, I like that. Send us your ideas, folks. Yeah. What do you have ideas? What should we call the barometer to the stuff? Exactly. We have a stuff Barometer. Yeah, exactly. So my rock fight@gmail.com. Speaking of my rock fight@gmail.com, that's the show for today. What did you think of this edition of Gear and Beer? Do you have a suggestion for a future edition or do you simply dislike gear and beer? Send an email to My rock fight@gmail.com. Let us know what you think. Gear and Beer is a production of Rock Fight LLC for Justin Hausman. I'm Colin Truth. Thanks for listening and here to take us out. It's Krista Makes with the gear and beer theme song. We'll see you next time.


Chris DeMakes (48:56):

We have experienced lots of tale to tell, just like you're with your pal out on the trail, we outdoor adventure gear there with the perfect beer. Now let the games begin. So glad that you're here at the break. The Trail trailhead, we're going to crack up in the and by the beverage where we can celebrate our wins. Those losses we hold so close. But bottom line here is you'll get the that matter most.

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